Please cancel my account

I would like to request that my account, username jrock612, is canceled. I received this message on one of my posts:

The Gestapo reference is a disgraceful insult and not tolerated here . The staff are voulunteers doing a job to make this a good place for all, Dont like it , then go away.

The "Gestapo" reference was sarcastic and not directed at anybody. Clearly this administrator cannot accept opinions that differ from his, and since I have received two infractions in two days since that post, I'm not exactly expecting a fair shake here.

So unless someone higher up the food chain than KiwiNZ can look at the post in question and realize my intention was not to be a "disgraceful insult" and subsequently remove my infraction, please delete my account.

If, that is, this post makes it through the moderator queue.

Thanks.

Should note that I don't want to cancel the account, but that my Gestapo reference was made in reference to moderators shutting down threads for no good reason. It's something the Gestapo would have done, plain and simple, and I wasn't mentioning them in any other way than that. If anything I was stating the Gestapo were oppressive and intolerant and a bunch of idiots, which I think everyone can agree with.

That's all.

Hi, jrock612,

Thanks for using the Resolution Center to handle this situation. Please give me a chance to thoroughly review the thread in question and see what we can do.

I appreciate it. If you need me to clear something up I'd be happy to do so.

Thanks.

jdong said: Hi, jrock612,

Thanks for using the Resolution Center to handle this situation. Please give me a chance to thoroughly review the thread in question and see what we can do.

Any updates? I read that you're at MIT which means you're probably a busy guy, so obviously that comes first. But I was wondering if you'd had a chance to look at stuff yet.

My decisions henceforth rest upon the outcome of yours, and I guess my impatience is biting at me a little.

Anyway... :)

I apologize; last night was a busy night for me and I haven't had the chance to look. I will make an effort at getting back to you by the end of the day today.

jdong said: I apologize; last night was a busy night for me and I haven't had the chance to look. I will make an effort at getting back to you by the end of the day today.

Like I said, I'm sure you're a busy guy. No rush. JUST DO IT NOW!

J/k. :P

Thanks!

Also, my signature isn't updating for some reason. I entered one, and it shows in my UserCP, but not on my posts. Has there been a restriction placed on that, too?

Nevermind LOL it just showed up. Sorry.

Ok it's late at night to expect myself to think clearly and I am adjusting to a new netbook keyboard, but a promise is a promise and I have taken the time to review to thread and infraction.

First off, with regards to the infraction for the gestapo reference, to be honest I would have given an infraction for it too, albeit perhaps not all the way up to post-moderation level. The Internet is a lossy medium for sarcasm, and my experience/suggestion, and as noted in the forum guidelines (at least at some point in time), be very clear with sarcasm and keep sarcastic jokes in good taste. More directly, you should have chosen different phrasing that didn't involve any demeaning comparisons.

That brings me up to the next point -- questioning staff actions. You should not ever question our actions unless you want to be banned. Just kidding -- actually, this community is built from constructive criticism and everyone working together. We welcome our community members raising concerns about our policies and/or asking us to revisit decisions. However, there is a specific process to follow for doing so, and that is outlined here in the resolution center. If you had a problem with a thread being locked or infraction issued, you are welcome, in fact, encouraged to take it to the Resolution Center for revisit. However, remember that the Res Center is here for constructively discussing a conflict and working towards a solution that both sides feels is reasonable. Whenever one comes to the table with an aggressive angry attitude, it's unlikely for anything productive to be accomplished. I will not go through and list every instance in this chain of events where I felt you have done so, but I really encourage you to go back and read the infracted post and your original Res Center post in this thread, and reflect on whether or not it could have been expressed in a more positive manner.

Now that we have gotten that over with, I also reviewed your posting history. You make valuable contributions to our community and have a fairly spotless record up to this past week. Based on that and conversations we have had, I am confident you are not a troll and didn't intend any harm with anything you have said. As I have said before, the staff here are volunteers who only wish to keep this discussion board orderly and efficient at what we were founded to do -- provide the best community-oriented technical support for Ubuntu -- we get no pleasure out of punishing our users. I really appreciate you taking the time to calm down and discuss this situation in hopes of a more positive outcome. For that, I am willing to reverse the infraction and return full posting access to you on the condition that this doesn't happen in the future. Specifically, treat everyone with respect and avoid criticism that unnecessarily insults others. When in doubt of whether a thread like the one you started is appropriate, please ask. Whether it's PM'ing a staff member or mailing the Forums Council list, we are all more than happy to point you in the right direction to get your complaints addressed.

Do you find the above reasonable?

jdong said: Ok it's late at night to expect myself to think clearly and I am adjusting to a new netbook keyboard, but a promise is a promise and I have taken the time to review to thread and infraction.

I'm grateful that you chose to reply so late. I logged off for the night at 5 to midnight, and I have to admit I was a little hurt.... :P

jdong said:

First off, with regards to the infraction for the gestapo reference, to be honest I would have given an infraction for it too, albeit perhaps not all the way up to post-moderation level. The Internet is a lossy medium for sarcasm, and my experience/suggestion, and as noted in the forum guidelines (at least at some point in time), be very clear with sarcasm and keep sarcastic jokes in good taste. More directly, you should have chosen different phrasing that didn't involve any demeaning comparisons.

Again, I assure you I meant nobody any disrespect. The internet is a lossy medium, I agree (though I've never heard it said like that...good phrase), and wit and humor and sarcasm are easily lost in the absence of voice tone and body language. I do not think my phrasing broke any rules, but *if it did*, then it did. It's your guys' job to interpret the rules, not mine.

As for the infraction...I wasn't as concerned with it as I was the post-restriction. That's what really burned me. I'm thankful you removed both, however. I didn't feel I deserved either one, though I was willing to live with the points. :)

jdong said:

That brings me up to the next point -- questioning staff actions. You should not ever question our actions unless you want to be banned.

:lolflag:

jdong said:

Just kidding -- actually, this community is built from constructive criticism and everyone working together. We welcome our community members raising concerns about our policies and/or asking us to revisit decisions. However, there is a specific process to follow for doing so, and that is outlined here in the resolution center. If you had a problem with a thread being locked or infraction issued, you are welcome, in fact, encouraged to take it to the Resolution Center for revisit. However, remember that the Res Center is here for constructively discussing a conflict and working towards a solution that both sides feels is reasonable. Whenever one comes to the table with an aggressive angry attitude, it's unlikely for anything productive to be accomplished. I will not go through and list every instance in this chain of events where I felt you have done so, but I really encourage you to go back and read the infracted post and your original Res Center post in this thread, and reflect on whether or not it could have been expressed in a more positive manner.

Few things here:

1) I didn't know the Resolution Center existed. 2) In the future, if I have such an issue, I *will* bring it here. 3) You're right that it could have been expressed more clearly. I don't deny that. I saw the infraction and the restriction as wrong and, quite frankly, lost my head. I don't mind paying the price if I break the rules, but I didn't think I'd broken any rules. Given the streak that was going - mods shutting down threads for (what appeared to me to be) no good reason - when I saw mine closed, and saw those infraction points I lost my head. However, as I said, you're right that it could have been expressed more clearly, and I'm glad that you didn't let an angry outburst cloud your judgment in reviewing this matter. :)

jdong said:

Now that we have gotten that over with, I also reviewed your posting history. You make valuable contributions to our community and have a fairly spotless record up to this past week. Based on that and conversations we have had, I am confident you are not a troll and didn't intend any harm with anything you have said. As I have said before, the staff here are volunteers who only wish to keep this discussion board orderly and efficient at what we were founded to do -- provide the best community-oriented technical support for Ubuntu -- we get no pleasure out of punishing our users. I really appreciate you taking the time to calm down and discuss this situation in hopes of a more positive outcome. For that, I am willing to reverse the infraction and return full posting access to you on the condition that this doesn't happen in the future. Specifically, treat everyone with respect and avoid criticism that unnecessarily insults others. When in doubt of whether a thread like the one you started is appropriate, please ask. Whether it's PM'ing a staff member or mailing the Forums Council list, we are all more than happy to point you in the right direction to get your complaints addressed.

Do you find the above reasonable?

No, I'm not a troll (I hate that word) and I meant absolutely no harm or insult. I've had no trouble with mods that I can remember until this week, when I questioned them :P.

Anyway, I appreciate your levelheadedness in this matter, and thank you for seeing the situation for what it was. To be honest (and as I've said in posts in this thread) I wasn't really expecting to walk into the lion's den and tickle his nose and then walk back out again unharmed. :P

To KiwiNZ, I assure you I meant absolutely no disrespect to you in particular or to the mods at all. My Gestapo reference was meant in the abstract, not as a specific reference to any one person or group. Perhaps it was in bad taste, and it won't happen again, but in any case, you have my apologies. :)

Thanks, jdong, once again for being a reasonable fellow. :)

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding. I'm really pleased that we were able to come to such a positive outcome. I will reverse the infraction points at this time.

jdong said: Thank you for your cooperation and understanding. I'm really pleased that we were able to come to such a positive outcome. I will reverse the infraction points at this time.

Thanks man. :)

I am currently travelling in the outback and beyond in NZ so Internet connection is sparse. This is the first chance I have had to connect in a few days.

The references to the Gestapo were disgraceful, even if meant in jest. The staff DO NOT need to tolerate that kind of abuse either directly or inferred.If you knew the true history of that organisation you would understand my abhorrence to it.

If you did not mean it to come across as it did , then you should temper your language. If you have a legitimate complaint to lay DO NOT use the type of language.

KiwiNZ said: I am currently travelling in the outback and beyond in NZ so Internet connection is sparse. This is the first chance I have had to connect in a few days.

The references to the Gestapo were disgraceful, even if meant in jest. The staff DO NOT need to tolerate that kind of abuse either directly or inferred.If you knew the true history of that organisation you would understand my abhorrence to it.

If you did not mean it to come across as it did , then you should temper your language. If you have a legitimate complaint to lay DO NOT use the type of language.

As I have already said, I regret my rather flippant use of that word. I didn't say it in jest. I understand what that group of misguided people did, and what they stood for, and abhorrence is an appropriate reaction.

I'll say this one more time: I meant that comment only in the abstract, and not toward any one person or group of people. I wasn't saying, "You mods are the Gestapo!", but rather inquiring (somewhat sarcastically, I must add) as to when the rules changed to allow mods to shut down whatever post they wanted.

And you are right: perhaps my use of the term was disgraceful. From here on out, I know that if I have a problem I can bring it to this Resolution Center to sort it out. jdong at least, from my own personal experience, is a level-headed dude who seems to consider the issues fairly, so there's no need for me to ever post a complaint like that again in a high-traffic forum.

As for tempering my language, that I cannot do. I have never bent or mixed my words to appease somebody else. However, rules are rules, and even I will admit that my Gestapo remark had no business here, and that it, nor similar, unnecessary remarks, will never find a place into one of my posts again.

One last time I apologize to you for any offense it caused. I have no interest in keeping this matter stirred up. I simply want to move on. We cannot live with anger or regret. Those emotions must be allowed to pass through us.

I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive a lapse in judgment and to understand that I really did not mean any offense.

Something else to consider:

I see that you are from New Zealand, and I am from the US. Perhaps, as was suggested to me this morning, there is simply a gap in the language and/or culture that is making this worse than it needs to be. I'm not saying, "Well, buddy, if you understood *English*, you'd get it!" But rather that the comparrisons I would draw and the language I would use to draw them, as an American, are different than from how you would do it. Note that jdong, who I'm assuming is American since he's going to MIT (at the very least he lives here in the US) still found the term disrespectful and unnecessary, but didn't think it should have gone to the post-restriction level. Perhaps that is why: he is more familiar with the dialect.

Still doesn't make the comment OK (I do regret using the word, and not because I got "in trouble" for it), but could perhaps shed some light on the issue.

Just a thought that I thought I should share. :)

*NOTE* I don't mean this to be patronizing or condescending at all; I'm just suggesting possible solutions as to why there's such a gap between my intention and your interpretation. :)

Another thing I might add to note is, all my experience/knowledge about the Gestapo is from wikipedia and such places. However, it is realistic to realize that some of us here probably have more personal experience with this horrendous group and the term to me versus to them would be interpreted very very differently. Anytime you have a community as large as the one we've managed to gain here, you have to keep in mind everyone's differing backgrounds. What you might find unoffensive could be taken in the totally opposite end of the spectrum to someone else.

jdong said: Another thing I might add to note is, all my experience/knowledge about the Gestapo is from wikipedia and such places. However, it is realistic to realize that some of us here probably have more personal experience with this horrendous group and the term to me versus to them would be interpreted very very differently. Anytime you have a community as large as the one we've managed to gain here, you have to keep in mind everyone's differing backgrounds. What you might find unoffensive could be taken in the totally opposite end of the spectrum to someone else.

That is a very good point. I'm only 29, and born in the US...I have zero personal understanding of what the Gestapo was like. My grandfather, who was in WWII, is 20+ years in his grave. My knowledge of them is from textbooks.

One comes to know people on these forums and it is very easy to forget that in a lot of cases they aren't sitting right next to you, or in the same state, or in the same country even. The cultures between places like Europe and the US and Japan and Africa and Asia must be so shockingly different that until you've experienced them each individually you can't even imagine at all the little nuances and such.

If that is the case here, and I've touched a personal note, then once again I ask you to accept my apology.

As for this post and this issue, I'm washing my hands of it. I've said and done all I can say and do. I hope there's no lasting animosity, but whether there is or not is out of my hands.

Thanks again jdong for being levelheaded and giving the issue a fair shake.

:)

I'm glad to see this coming to an amiable conclusion. May I add that this is not a new phenomenon. Before things like internet forums existed, there was Usenet, and its predecessor, BBSs. Back in those days (and I do remember them...), we used to say that as soon as anyone mentioned anything related to the Nazis, all sane discussion was rendered impossible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law

I agree with jdong's comments and also appreciate your recognition that this is probably a topic to avoid. In any case, cheers for a positive conclusion.

Thank you or your apologies, much appreciated and accepted.

If you knew my family history you would understand my abhorence to such references.

I also apologise if I appeared to come down hard.

KiwiNZ said: Thank you or your apologies, much appreciated and accepted.

If you knew my family history you would understand my abhorence to such references.

I also apologise if I appeared to come down hard.

As has already been said, it's very easy for things to get twisted in the absence of facial expressions, tone of voice, and body language.

No hard feelings. :)