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GNOME Shell

Archived thread 1305154 from Lucid Lynx Testing and Discussion (CLOSED). Markdown source: Lucid_Lynx_Testing_and_Discussion_(CLOSED)/thread_1305154_GNOME_Shell.md

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#1

What is GNOME Shell? GNOME Shell, for those of you that do not know, is a user interface change to GNOME. With it, brings Mutter a combination of Metacity and Clutter, managing the windows. Say goodbye to compiz as it won't be compatible.

GNOME Shell will be released in September of 2010 so it won't be default until at least 10.10, most likely later.

What does it look like? Here is GNOME Shell.

The date and username provide a calendar and menu respectively [IMG]http://www.markecurtis.com/etc/gnomeshell/menus.png[/IMG]

Currently some applications are open but minimized. Where are they? This is the overlay, where you run and manage "Activities" [IMG]http://www.markecurtis.com/etc/gnomeshell/overlay.png[/IMG]

More applications can be run either by searching for the name in "find", or clicking the bar that says applications [IMG]http://www.markecurtis.com/etc/gnomeshell/moreapplications.png[/IMG]

You can easily add or subtract workspaces with the + and - buttons. By default, layed out in wall form, the scrollbar, or smaller boxes letting you switch among them [IMG]http://www.markecurtis.com/etc/gnomeshell/workspacewall.png[/IMG]

You can also view all workspaces at once in a grid layout [IMG]http://www.markecurtis.com/etc/gnomeshell/workspacegrid.png[/IMG]

Oh look, an instant message! Clicking on the icon in the lower right will bring up the window. [IMG]http://www.markecurtis.com/etc/gnomeshell/messages.png[/IMG]

Just hover over the message to expand it to view it all. [IMG]http://www.markecurtis.com/etc/gnomeshell/messageexpand.png[/IMG]

How do I Learn More?

How do I Try it?

Running Jaunty, Karmic and Lucid there are three ways to try GNOME Shell

Don't try it in a Virtual Machine [IMG]http://www.markecurtis.com/etc/gnomeshell/virtualbox.png[/IMG]

  • Install the gnome-shell package (easy but out of date)
  • Use the Ricotz PPA (slightly harder, but more up to date)
  • Build from source (more difficult, but up to date when something is added, provided you rerun jhbuild build)

Building from source is a bit more complicated than the GNOME instructions say. So fire up a terminal

  • sudo apt-get install curl libgstreamer0.10-dev libcroco3-dev xserver-xephyr xulrunner-dev python-dev mesa-common-dev libreadline5-dev libgl1-mesa-dev libwnck-dev librsvg2-dev libgnome-desktop-dev libgnome-menu-dev libffi-dev libgtk2.0-dev libgconf2-dev libdbus-glib-1-dev gtk-doc-tools gnome-common git-core flex bison automake build-essential mesa-utils
  • curl -O http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/plain/tools/build/gnome-shell-build-setup.sh
  • /bin/bash gnome-shell-build-setup.sh
  • Get jhbuild (not a command line entry)
  • For Lucid via repository, package name "jhbuild". You will also need to install "gir-repository-dev"
  • From Jaunty
  • From Debian

  • jhbuild build

To run

  • cd ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src
  • ./gnome-shell --replace

To quit GNOME Shell and return to the panels Go to the terminal

  • hit CTRL-C

To update (check the commit log for anything new)

  • jhbuild build (rebuilds updated files)
  • jhbuild build -f -a -c (builds all gnome shell files)

If you want to make it your default, put "gnome-shell --replace" in your Startup Items

Be aware that there is currently a bug with the cursor being hidden in panel or overlay---the workaround is ALT & F2 to bring up a run dialog & type in "restart"--the shell will restart & grab your cursor.

Love it? Hate it? Have a suggestion? Make your voice heard in the GNOME Shell mailing list

Personal thoughts I currently have the following issues:

(dots and any way of illustrating number of open windows has since been removed all together)

  • Unable to see what applications I'm currently running at a glance.
  • Text for running/favorite applications is often truncated
  • [s]Blue dots illustrating number of open windows is often obscured[/s]
  • Needless reinvention of notifications
  • No single click shortcuts available in panel (must go to overlay)
  • No ability to view/empty trash (the paradigm shift is to remove trash, but much like a lot of things in GNOME Shell they haven't thought of what to replace it with)

I also wonder if Ubuntu plans on adding its own custom bits to GNOME Shell

#2

Gnome Shell is a fairly radical change for the GNOME project, and it is still in pretty heavy development. It's also a lot more resource intensive for old systems like mine because it *requires* compositing.

I wrote a blog post with my opinion on GNOME shell a while back: here. (It also has a few screenshots for those of you that don't know what it looks like)

#3

Merk42 said: Say goodbye to compiz as it won't be compatible.

I have already said goodbye GNOME because of that and because I don't like the design and the workflow of GNOME Shell. Anyway, I'm running KDE since Karmic Beta and I'm loving it. ;)

#4

Merk42 said: I know there are those that do like it though. I'm just giving my own opinion here. I personally have some issues with it:

[*]Not being able to see what applications I'm currently running at a glance.

Deal breaker. Alt-tabbing isn't what I consider user-friendly or usable for average users or mouse-wielding lvl 12 berserks...errr users.

The text for running/favorite applications is often truncated and obscures the blue dots

Direct effect of the above.

Needless reinvention of notifications (though it hasn't even been reinvented yet)

Ayatana fixes this nicely. But NOOOOOO!!!! We have to reinvent this.

No single click shortcuts available in panel (must go to overlay)

Looks like the panel is not going to be the great little widget holder like gnome-panel 2 was.

#5

Won't the gnome shell make the default gnome window management less usable in virtual environments (performance wise, as there is no or limited hardware acceleration on there)? Something I am a little concerned about.

#6

Aww isn't that cute. Gnome wants to be KDE.

*pats Gnome on the head*

#7

I have honestly tried learning to like gnome-shell, but I just can't. I will use it over my cold dead body, I would sooner write my own shell replacement than be forced to use this stinking pile of Javascript infested maldesign.

#8

whoop said: Won't the gnome shell make the default gnome window management less usable in virtual environments (performance wise, as there is no or limited hardware acceleration on there)? Something I am a little concerned about.

Well, since mutter will require compositing I could see that as being hard for at least certain virtualized environments, also there seems to be problems with it for thin clients (there's a guy on Planet GNOME who does this for a whole city, Dave Richards I think, who wrote a post on this recently).

#9

As it stands, gnome-shell can not be used on machines which video hardware/drivers which do not support non-power-of-two textures. These machines also can not run compiz, but compiz is optional. If gnome-shell becomes the default gnome window manager these machines can not run default gnome anymore. The Thinkpad T23 I'm currently using is one of those machines. With its 1.2 GHz Pentium III-m is perfectly capable of running gnome. I'm using it as my main machine without any problems.

I should be able to keep running gnome with a non-default window manager but I wonder if gnome-shell is actually worth this sacrifice in compatibility. As far as I'm concerned it is not.

#10

taking performance and efficiency into account with gnome-shell, many users will just switch to xfce4 or just find gnome and install it themeselves...gnome-shell may have innovated a concept, but in a bad way...

#11

lovinglinux said: I don't like the design and the workflow of GNOME Shell.

Design and workflow are words that should not be used in the same sentence as GNOME Shell. Especially not workflow. Well, there are no workflow really? Uh, it's terrible. *shrugs*

#12

You nay-sayers can gripe if you like, but I still think Gnome-shell is a huge step forward in usability over the existing Gnome UI. I've been using Gnome-shell as my default UI for a couple of months now, and I find it much nicer to work with than any of the existing major desktops on *nix. I can't wait to see where they take the final product.

#13

still think Gnome-shell is a huge step forward in usability over the existing Gnome UI

Why ? Because you need to use your keyboard or because the screen is flying in and out all the time ? Maybe is because multiple desktops concept is the 90% of the idea, when people barely uses 2 desktops.

Gnome-shell is far from a good a idea (the way it is now), and I think instead of lose time/resources on it people would appreciate more another initiatives like QTGnome.

#14

Gnome-Shell, in its current form, is a gigantic cluster****.

It shouldn't take me 5 extra seconds to find the app I want to start.

#15

Words cannot express my hatred for Gnome Shell ..... well, they can actually, but I'd get banned within seconds.

#16

optimisme said: Why ? Because you need to use your keyboard or because the screen is flying in and out all the time ? Maybe is because multiple desktops concept is the 90% of the idea, when people barely uses 2 desktops.

Gnome-shell is far from a good a idea (the way it is now), and I think instead of lose time/resources on it people would appreciate more another initiatives like QTGnome.

Thanks for taking the time to make completely wrong assumptions about my preference. I've already covered some of my reasons in another thread and just because you don't think it's a good idea doesn't make it so. Read the mailing list referenced by Merk42 in his original post and you'll find plenty of other folks who have also found benefits to using Gnome-shell. If you can't accept that some people are capable of making good, productive use of this tool, that is not my problem.

#17

Starks said: Gnome-Shell, in its current form, is a gigantic cluster****.

It shouldn't take me 5 extra seconds to find the app I want to start.

Why is it taking you 5 extra seconds? I've been finding it much faster than the menus in Gnome 2.X. Tap the Super key and type a couple characters and tap the Enter key. No messy menu navigation unless you really want it. Personally, I find Gnome-shell much more productive. It took me a couple weeks to get used to it and modify a couple of work habits to suit the change in environment, but now I can't imagine going back to the more traditional Gnome interface at all.

#18

It took me a couple weeks to get used to it and modify a couple of work habits to suit the change in environment, but now I can't imagine going back to the more traditional Gnome interface at all.

That's the problem for me, I'm not going to modify my work habits for a interface..

#19
#20

qamelian said: Read the mailing list referenced by Merk42 in his original post and you'll find plenty of other folks who have also found benefits to using Gnome-shell.

Thank you for painting me in a good light. I know you and I recently have had our.... discussions.. in the GNOME Shell thread in Art and Design. I'm glad you didn't take this thread as a "OMG GNOME Shell SUXX" thread, but instead its intended use of a general discussion. Like it or not GNOME Shell is set to be an important option for Lucid and most likely default for Lucid+1. That major change is also why I linked to the mailing list. Those of you that don't like it, still have the time to make a change, or at the very least say "hey you guys didn't listen to my input so I'm going to use {insert DE here}".

#21

JBAlaska said: That's the problem for me, I'm not going to modify my work habits for a interface..

Most productivity experts will tell you that is a bad attitude and they are right. I used to think the way you do until I realized that a small modification of the way I do things can make a big difference in my productivity. Personally, I want to get more work done in less time. I do that now and changing a couple of my habits in small ways was well worth the gains I've noticed. If you want to work 8 hours to do the say work I do in 7, that's your prerogative.

#22

Merk42 said: Thank you for painting me in a good light.

I know you and I recently have had our.... discussions.. in the GNOME Shell thread in Art and Design. I'm glad you didn't take this thread as a "OMG GNOME Shell SUXX" thread, but instead its intended use of a general discussion. Like it or not GNOME Shell is set to be an important option for Lucid and most likely default for Lucid+1. That major change is also why I linked to the mailing list. Those of you that don't like it, still have the time to make a change, or at the very least say "hey you guys didn't listen to my input so I'm going to use {insert DE here}". You and I have different philosophies on things, but at the end of the day, I think we both want Ubuntu/Gnome/Linux to be improved upon. I'm pretty sure we both get exasperated with each other sometimes too, but that doesn't mean we can find common ground to work toward finding those improvements. I appreciate your goal even if I don't always agree with your perspective! :)

#23

I am keeping an open mind on gnome shell. I have seen both good and bad implementations of this. I will have to try it for myself and go from there. Perhaps a classic setting will be included in Gnome 3, nothing is set in stone yet and the Gnome developers have stated that they may push back the release date.

It is unwise to resist change, an open minded view will make your life a lot happier.:D It is too early to really evaluate the good and bad points of gnome shell. It is best to wait and see how things develop.

#24

qamelian said: Most productivity experts will tell you that is a bad attitude and they are right. I used to think the way you do until I realized that a small modification of the way I do things can make a big difference in my productivity. Personally, I want to get more work done in less time. I do that now and changing a couple of my habits in small ways was well worth the gains I've noticed. If you want to work 8 hours to do the say work I do in 7, that's your prerogative.

I guess if your doing the 9 to 5 grind thingy, that would be true..Me I bang away at other peoples idiotic setups 12-15 hours a day, when I sit down at MY box I want it to be an extension of my self...and eye candy is a big part of that self..so far Gnome Shell just does not do it for me. When I push on my scroll wheel I need to see that cube, or I know that X is scre**d up again lol.

#25

I've just started playing around with it. I think with a little time I might like it. I tried compiz for a while, but after the initial glitz it just somehow got in the way. So, I turned it off. Now, I just show it to W'doze diehards to calm them down. LOL.

#26

Though I personally like it, I do not think general users will. If your common general user is in the desktop, I think they'd prefer clicking rather than super-keying and typing. I mean, thats what a GUI is used for, afterall.

Is it productive? yes. Do I personally like it? at 140wpm, sure :) I often have fought for the eye-candy and simplification of things (if needed, instead of being forced to use the terminal - for myself I dont mind, but again, general user).

While I do not say this is set in stone and I am sure there are people who will flock to say things against what I had put in this post, that is just one point of view countering yours. In this thread alone there is enough negative feedback and commenting (which is sad, as gnome-shell is new and different).

I tried it myself and I liked it, but I do not think I am quite ready to get used to it or to replace my current setup. My worry is that, although yes, its an interesting concept which could make ubuntu very unique once polished and added upon (among the other things in store for 10.04/10.10 which I have been reading about that may come to Ubuntu - but thats another topic), I do not think people from Windows will be able to adopt as easily to Ubuntu if Gnome-Shell is used as default.

I am not saying this as any offense to the people behind Gnome-shell, Ubuntu, Windows, gnome (or whoever else you think I may have offended), as I am coming around to gnome-shell slowly.. I guess I will have to see how it ends up design-wise at 10.04/10.10, before anyone can really judge.

#27

JBAlaska said: That's the problem for me, I'm not going to modify my work habits for a interface..

What did you do when you switched from Windows to Ubuntu? You changed your work habits to fit the interface, no?

Anyway, I've been using the shell for a few days now, and while I would definitely appreciate an Android-like tutorial for first-time users, I've found it very easy and intuitive to work with.

#28

NCLI said: What did you do when you switched from Windows to Ubuntu? You changed your work habits to fit the interface, no?

The move from Windows Explorer to Gnome-Panel increased my productivity so much that I didn't need to change a thing. It was natural.

#29

Qamelian please, tell this to my mother:

Tap the Super key and type a couple characters and tap the Enter key.

And then enjoy her dinner, ;)

By the way,

Like it or not GNOME Shell is set to be an important option for Lucid and most likely default for Lucid+1. That major change is also why I linked to the mailing list. Those of you that don't like it, still have the time to make a change, or at the very least say "hey you guys didn't listen to my input so I'm going to use {insert DE here}"

Yes, if Gnome changes dramatically I'll move to another Desktop Environment or I'll create one by myself (if I have enough time and energy), this is how free software works. And Gnome must be careful with its movements, because is not as good as they think (2010 is around the corner and I'm still waiting for the 10% of marketplace) and other systems with better developers failed drastically. What makes you think Ubuntu can't move to another DE if Gnome 3 fails?

In my opinion this is not a very good moment to try new concepts without ask people what they think, there are new players and technology is evolving very fast. What about Gnome shell and multi touch screens where there are 5 or 6 people using the same system simultaneously on the same screen?

What if ChromeOS, or Moblin, or Maemo, or ... develops a new DE and it fits perfectly on user needs ? Will you tell them:

Tap the Super key and type a couple characters and tap the Enter key.

Please ...

#30

I love how passionate open source users are. Personally I like a lot of ideas behind gnome-shell. They are trying some different stuff. Some of it isn't working out and some of it is. If you don't like it or have input hop on the mailing list they are very open to input. Fighting with each other solves nothing. You want something your way help, discuses your ideas, Work on being constructive.

#31

Starks said: The move from Windows Explorer to Gnome-Panel increased my productivity so much that I didn't need to change a thing. It was natural.

So, you're still clicking on the button with Start on it to launchprogramsshutdownyourpcopenafolderoraccessyoursettings?

If you are: You're still running Windows If you are not: You changed your work habits ;)

#32

optimisme said: Qamelian please, tell this to my mother:

I'm not sure I get your point. I've been conducting usability tests of Gnome-shell with my own clients, both home users and commercial clients, and most have found this preferable than trying to navigate menus. This was especially true of older users whose hands were not quite as steady and found navigating menus to be extremely frustrating. I'm doing real-world tests with real people who have real concerns. I'm not just throwing my own preferences into the ring.

#33

qamelian said: I'm not sure I get your point. I've been conducting usability tests of Gnome-shell with my own clients, both home users and commercial clients, and most have found this preferable than trying to navigate menus. This was especially true of older users whose hands were not quite as steady and found navigating menus to be extremely frustrating. I'm doing real-world tests with real people who have real concerns. I'm not just throwing my own preferences into the ring.

Have you considered passing on the results to The GNOME Project? It might improve the shell.

#34

NCLI said: So, you're still clicking on the button with Start on it to launchprogramsshutdownyourpcopenafolderoraccessyoursettings?

If you are: You're still running Windows If you are not: You changed your work habits ;) The main difference is Gnome menu is structured very well, so it's no pain for me to launch the app with it. In fact, launching with menu is simplier than launching with "Super, <few letters here>, Enter". It doesn't seen when you are fresh, but clearly when you are tired. Another pain are these terrible overlay switches, which bring additional complexity to super<....> process: you would be in pain to remember what you wanted to enter before you pressed SUPER. So, the whole gnome-shell idea seems to me completely wrong.

The main point: why do they need overlay? I can't understand why, but it's the thing why the gnome-shell should not be made the upstream stuff. The only nice feature I've noticed is Alt+Tab. I don't like other gnome-shell ideas.

#35

Joe_Bishop said: The main difference is Gnome menu is structured very well, so it's no pain for me to launch the app with it. In fact, launching with menu is simplier than launching with "Super, <few letters here>, Enter". It doesn't seen when you are fresh, but clearly when you are tired.

The group I've been testing with say different. They find the menus more difficult, especially if your hands are at all unsteady. The majority of my clients who have tested Gnome-shell for me favour the Super key + type a few letters approach. When a user is tired, they are more likely to make an error navigating the menu and launch the wrong application.

#36

NCLI said: Have you considered passing on the results to The GNOME Project? It might improve the shell.

Thus far the testing has been pretty informal and I'm not sure the results would necessarily be useful except to confirm that the Gnome-shell crew are basically on the right track. If I have time to put the data together in a more formal packet, I would definitely pass it on.

#37

qamelian said: The group I've been testing with say different. They find the menus more difficult, especially if your hands are at all unsteady. The majority of my clients who have tested Gnome-shell for me favour the Super key + type a few letters approach. When a user is tired, they are more likely to make an error navigating the menu and launch the wrong application.

I think they were geeks. All my experience shows it's not truth, and typing is harder for brain than using mouse.

#38

I quite like many aspects of gnome-shell. Particularly:

  • For me, the overlay is an even-better version of compiz's *scale* plugin, which was the most important thing to happen to window management in many years.
  • Application-based alt-tab is a great idea, although the actual implementation could be tweaked significantly.
  • The notifications ideas seem pretty good, particularly the notification log.

There are also things I find problematic, such as:

  • Why is the shell built into the window manager? Why *can't* I use compiz with the new shell?
  • Why are the new notifications a totally new set of interfaces?
  • Panel applets can be pretty useful - what is the replacement?
#39

RAOF said: I quite like many aspects of gnome-shell. Particularly:

  • For me, the overlay is an even-better version of compiz's *scale* plugin, which was the most important thing to happen to window management in many years.
  • Application-based alt-tab is a great idea, although the actual implementation could be tweaked significantly.
  • The notifications ideas seem pretty good, particularly the notification log.

There are also things I find problematic, such as:

  • Why is the shell built into the window manager? Why *can't* I use compiz with the new shell?
  • Why are the new notifications a totally new set of interfaces?
  • Panel applets can be pretty useful - what is the replacement?

Always appreciate your input! I tend to agree with you.

#40

I really want 3 things--

  1. A way to configure the upper panel the way I want--In my current setup, I don't use a top panel at all--I came from the Mac OS world & helped Beta OSX--So you might guess that I still do a OSX-like dock at the bottom......(Screenshot)
  1. A way to make the panel non-solid colour--I like a desktop that blends well & only intrudes in a minimal manner----a simple slider like it is at present would be nice.
  1. A way to easily shut off composite--I game & it's a real pain to turn it off in the Shell--you really need to quit the Shell, play your game & then turn the Shell back on--messy.

All-in-all, I like the way it is going & have had some very good conversations with the developers--nice change from the "normal" Gnome practice..........

#41

autocrosser said: ...

...

  1. A way to easily shut off composite--I game & it's a real pain to turn it off in the Shell--you really need to quit the Shell, play your game & then turn the Shell back on--messy.

Is this *actually* necessary? Is the performance impact of compositing - particularly with a compiz-like "unredirect-fullscreen windows" option - really onerous?

#42

RAOF said: Is this *actually* necessary? Is the performance impact of compositing - particularly with a compiz-like "unredirect-fullscreen windows" option - really onerous?

Well--even with SLI'd 9800GT nVidia cards, I can't play UT2004 with any real speed--the fps goes down very fast & you loose matches that way......I really just turn all the eye-candy off when I want to game.

I'll try unredirect in the Shell, but it even "seems" to not like my setup as it is........

#43

Originally Posted by NCLI View Post

So, you're still clicking on the button with Start on it to launchprogramsshutdownyourpcopenafolderoraccessyou rsettings?

If you are: You're still running Windows If you are not: You changed your work habits

'Start' button or 'Gnome top menu' are visible on the screen, 'Super' key is another key mixed with many others in the keyboard and nobody knows it can be useful to start a new kind of 'start menu'.

I see Gnome Shell can be usefull in some situations, but I don't get why it has to move everything on the screen. I would prefer a new option on the Gnome menu like:

(i)Applications|Places|System [Quick finder]

Where 'Quick finder' is a Gnome Shell mini application to find programs or documents the way its done by Gnome Shell.

#44

RAOF said: I quite like many aspects of gnome-shell. Particularly:

  • For me, the overlay is an even-better version of compiz's *scale* plugin, which was the most important thing to happen to window management in many years.
  • Application-based alt-tab is a great idea, although the actual implementation could be tweaked significantly.
  • The notifications ideas seem pretty good, particularly the notification log.

There are also things I find problematic, such as:

Overlay is worse than scale plugin. Scale lets you to choose apps with keyboard, scale doesn't show another workspaces. Overlay looks like Expo plugin, not scale. Expo plugin proved to be almost unused, the same thing would be with overlay preview functionality.

  • Why is the shell built into the window manager? Why *can't* I use compiz with the new shell?
  • Why are the new notifications a totally new set of interfaces?
  • Panel applets can be pretty useful - what is the replacement?
#45

If you dont like using your keyboard, feel free to navigate to the overlay and through the menu inside the overlay with your mouse. No one's forcing you to use your keyboard.

#46

Triggerhapp said: If you dont like using your keyboard, feel free to navigate to the overlay and through the menu inside the overlay with your mouse. No one's forcing you to use your keyboard.

But will they force us to use the shell in the first place?

#47

novafluxx said: But will they force us to use the shell in the first place?

they are not. You are free to use or develop other DEs. And I'm sure compiz guys will come up with one.

#48

shafin said: they are not. You are free to use or develop other DEs. And I'm sure compiz guys will come up with one.

Just cause I can, I booted up Kubuntu 9.10 - wow

Its garbage, had a crash within 10 minutes of the plasma-desktop or something, and the clock - lol - the clock display, the numbers were covered up by something else in the 'tray'

Do the dev's dislike KDE? Cause Kubuntu never seems to work right on my systems, however...KDE 4.3 in my Arch setup runs fine, and is beautiful.

#49

novafluxx said: Just cause I can, I booted up Kubuntu 9.10 - wow

Its garbage, had a crash within 10 minutes of the plasma-desktop or something, and the clock - lol - the clock display, the numbers were covered up by something else in the 'tray'

Do the dev's dislike KDE? Cause Kubuntu never seems to work right on my systems, however...KDE 4.3 in my Arch setup runs fine, and is beautiful.

kubuntu works just fine for me. 2 computers one laptop, one desktop. Also my moms new laptop, my friends 2 desktop computers. and my brothers desktop. Not sure of the problems you're having but rock solid in East TN, USA.

With that said I'm obviously a kde4 user/fan and won't be all that impacted by the switch to gnome-shell/gnome 3.

Having said that, I think forcing composting on anyone or anyones computer to work will be bad. The distros that emphasize stability and working out of the box on any computer out there will shy away from gnome-shell since composting will be required and not all computers can do it, out of the box, without additional drivers.

I have tried gnome-shell and don't mind it. It's very slow to react on both of my computers and they aren't that bad of machines. I know it's early in the game for them and improvements will continue.

kde4 lost a lot of users during the switch to 4. it has improved nicely. Same thing will go with gnome-shell. people will hate it and use something else but some will eventually like and use it. I'm sure it will be on my machine to play with but kde4 is where I will likely stay.

my opinion of course.

#50

Interesting snip from developer-list:> Subject: RE: Request for comment (GNOME Shell team): release date for GNOME 3.0 Message-ID: <SNT106-W367193CE85F6A157B76E35BBB20@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

You mention Messaging:

One of the important components of the GNOME Shell design is its interaction with notifications and with messaging.

We've just started in on the implementation of this now, and the initial progress is promising, but there's going to be quite a bit of work to fine-tune the interaction and figure out how apps participate in this. What are thoughts on the work Ubuntu has done with notify-OSD? Just thought people would be interested.....another bit of info--They are talking about a release time frame---looks like Fall of next year & they are going to really open things to wide testing soon....

#51

What I like: it's pretty close to how I *already* use my computer. I currently abuse of Expo, Scale, hotcorners and Gnome-Do and maintain a minimal panel.

What I'm afraid of:

  • Compositing required. I have the required hardware, but what about powersaving when I'm on battery? It's clumsy enough that today I have to manually turn off Compiz when I pull the plug (KDE is much better in this regard, as KWin can be set to automatically turn compositing off when you're on batteries), but not having an option to turn compositing off at all? Heck, even Vista have a non-composited fallback mode.
  • The end of applets. This is not decided yet, but I'm afraid of the possibility. I use a minimal panel but not THAT minimal.
  • Clash of interests between Gnome and Ubuntu. Regardless of how good gnome-shell turns out, Canonical might prioritize familiarity. Plus, the Gnome team is rethinking messaging and notifications, the same goals of the Ayatana project. If they start to go in opposite directions, things might get ugly.
#52

I am using gnome-shell occasionally. It is stable, but sometimes non-gnome windows get 'lost' (Matlab.) I need to keep AWN running on the bottom.

Whoever decided that gnome-shell should include its own panel is an absolute idiot. Gnome-shell should replace functionality of the panel applets, but not the panel itself! Just add an activities button to the panel and call it gnome-activities-manager. If I knew anything about Gnome/GUI programming, then I would start my own fork. Let us keep our panel and configure it the way that we like!

These guys are pissing their time away coding a new panel that is worse than the old one. They should be concentrating on user interface and core functionality. Windows should zoom in when you mouseover their icons, clicking the username in the upper right should bring up a widget desktop with shutdown options, etc....

#53

TomtheWombat said: I am using gnome-shell occasionally. It is stable, but sometimes non-gnome windows get 'lost' (Matlab.) I need to keep AWN running on the bottom.

Whoever decided that gnome-shell should include its own panel is an absolute idiot. Gnome-shell should replace functionality of the panel applets, but not the panel itself! Just add an activities button to the panel and call it gnome-activities-manager. If I knew anything about Gnome/GUI programming, then I would start my own fork. Let us keep our panel and configure it the way that we like!

These guys are pissing their time away coding a new panel that is worse than the old one. They should be concentrating on user interface and core functionality. Windows should zoom in when you mouseover their icons, clicking the username in the upper right should bring up a widget desktop with shutdown options, etc.... Check how slow that "username" menu is. Overlay is slow too... Current menu opens imediately, overlay take about 0.3 or even more seconds to respond. BTW, the overlay animation isn't smooth on ... 8800gtx (proprietary drivers). Things are getting bad.

#54

tomthewombat said:

whoever decided that gnome-shell should include its own panel is an absolute idiot. Gnome-shell should replace functionality of the panel applets, but not the panel itself! Just add an activities button to the panel and call it gnome-activities-manager. If i knew anything about gnome/gui programming, then i would start my own fork. Let us keep our panel and configure it the way that we like!

These guys are pissing their time away coding a new panel that is worse than the old one.

+1

#55

TomtheWombat said: It is stable, but sometimes non-gnome windows get 'lost' (Matlab.) I need to keep AWN running on the bottom.

Matlab windows get 'lost' in gnome panel too so my guess is it's a Matlab problem. When it happens minimizing the Matlab window(s) seems to make them appear again.

In the subject of Matlab and the shell, when I use Matlab I usually have ~25 figure windows plus the main window and the editor. On another virtual desktop I have my LaTeX setup which is Emacs, a terminal and Evince, in a third virtual desktop I have a browser. This setup makes the shell a nightmare to use at its current form because in the overlay the windows are way to small to see what they contain plus there is an icon blocking them and the text when doing mouseover on a figure gets trunkated so it only says 'Fig'. All this makes selecting a figure almost a guessing game. Alt-tab(+click) can't be used at all because it doesn't group the figures and only displays 9 windows. Hopefully, with a little work, the alt-tab + click thing will be great though.

All in all i think the shell has some potential but, atlest with my quite extreme example, there is a long way to go.

#56

Keyper7 said: ...

...

  • Compositing required. I have the required hardware, but what about powersaving when I'm on battery? It's clumsy enough that today I have to manually turn off Compiz when I pull the plug (KDE is much better in this regard, as KWin can be set to automatically turn compositing off when you're on batteries), but not having an option to turn compositing off at all? Heck, even Vista have a non-composited fallback mode.

While requiring OpenGL (and a working GL_EXT_texture_from_pixmap) has problems, I don't think power consumption is one of them. All of the actual data I've seen show essentially no power consumption difference Compiz vs (non-composited) Metacity.

While the GPU core can undoubtedly consume lots of power, the typical demands of desktop compositing appear not to stress the GPU enough to make a noticeable change in power consumption. And in not-too-uncommon circumstances compositing will reduce the amount of computation required, which obviously conserves power.

#57

Will GNOME Shell have a fallback mode for older chipsets?

#58

Starks said: Will GNOME Shell have a fallback mode for older chipsets?

Last I heard, the answer was "no". The shell's interface design assumes compositing & fast transforms, particularly the overlay, and while it would be technically possible to do (almost?) all of it with XRender, there's little point. If a card doesn't have drivers that do decent 3D, there's very little chance[1] that their drivers do enough 2D acceleration to make gnome-shell viable.

I don't think that they've built in a backend abstraction, like KWin has.

[1] The current exception to this being nouveau, which has no (supported) 3D and pretty much the best 2D acceleration of any X driver *and* runs on beefy GPUs.

#59

RAOF said: ... I don't think ...

Are you sure, or you are just "think"? Proof please.

#60

RAOF said: pretty much the best 2D acceleration of any X driver *and* runs on beefy GPUs.

Nouveau 2D only faster than nv, but not the proprietary nvidia driver. You seem to believe in what you are spoken, not to speak about you believe in.

#61

RAOF said: While the GPU core can undoubtedly consume lots of power, the typical demands of desktop compositing appear not to stress the GPU enough to make a noticeable change in power consumption. And in not-too-uncommon circumstances compositing will reduce the amount of computation required, which obviously conserves power.

Out of sheer ignorance and curiosity, could you please explain what those not-too-uncommon circumstances are (or point me toward something I can read by myself)?

#62

Joe_Bishop said: Check how slow that "username" menu is. Overlay is slow too...

Current menu opens imediately, overlay take about 0.3 or even more seconds to respond. BTW, the overlay animation isn't smooth on ... 8800gtx (proprietary drivers). Things are getting bad.

From the 2.28 release announcement:

This is still a VERY EARLY version of GNOME Shell and should not be

taken of indicative of the final user interface or performance.

#63

A question. Is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsZvwyxJ9vk just a Gnome 3 concept video or will this really be a part of Gnome 3? Btw. this concept looks great :rolleyes:

#64

baizon said: A question. Is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsZvwyxJ9vk just a Gnome 3 concept video or will this really be a part of Gnome 3? Btw. this concept looks great :rolleyes:

Neither, it is not at all related to GNOME-Shell or GNOME 3.

#65

baizon said: A question. Is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsZvwyxJ9vk just a Gnome 3 concept video or will this really be a part of Gnome 3? Btw. this concept looks great :rolleyes:

The window shuffle-on-focus made me dizzy but otherwise, pretty neat.

#66

baizon said: A question. Is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsZvwyxJ9vk just a Gnome 3 concept video or will this really be a part of Gnome 3? Btw. this concept looks great :rolleyes:

It's a concept video, but there's just about nothing in it that can't be done right now with the combination of Compiz and GNOME Do.

#67

baizon said: A question. Is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsZvwyxJ9vk just a Gnome 3 concept video or will this really be a part of Gnome 3? Btw. this concept looks great :rolleyes:

The concept looks to be completely impossible: f-spot picture viewer can't launch so fast as does on video, it's mono app.

#68

Joe_Bishop said: Are you sure, or you are just "think"? Proof please.

I'm not sure; that came from my memory of reading some of the early gnome-desktop-devel threads about the design of gnome-shell. They may have decided to change, but I doubt it.

Joe_Bishop said: Nouveau 2D only faster than nv, but not the proprietary nvidia driver. You seem to believe in what you are spoken, not to speak about you believe in.

My GeForce 6600 and GeForce 7600GO beg to differ. Nouveau is faster at 2D (and uses less CPU) than the binary nvidia drivers for my cards. Your mileage may, of course, vary; these nv4x chips are some of the best supported by nouveau, although I think nv5x & nv6x chips may be beating them out now.

tawmas said: Out of sheer ignorance and curiosity, could you please explain what those not-too-uncommon circumstances are (or point me toward something I can read by myself)?

When (a) the window contents don't change often, and (b) you expose part of a previously hidden window, either by moving a window or by alt-tabbing. In the composited-case, this doesn't require any additional computation - the window is already there, in graphics memory, from when you last looked at it. In the non-composited case, this requires the application to re-draw its window, which can require a surprising amount of computation.

#69

William John McCann has posted an update, including new mockups, an updated design document, and a call for help on refining the mockups according to the specification.

#70

23meg said: William John McCann has posted an update, including new mockups, an updated design document, and a call for help on refining the mockups according to the specification.

Definitely going to thoroughly read through this later. However, just skimming I see they still insist on Alt-Tab, or Overlay to switch what you're working on.....

#71

RAOF said: When (a) the window contents don't change often, and (b) you expose part of a previously hidden window, either by moving a window or by alt-tabbing. In the composited-case, this doesn't require any additional computation - the window is already there, in graphics memory, from when you last looked at it. In the non-composited case, this requires the application to re-draw its window, which can require a surprising amount of computation.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the explanation.

#72

Well finished reading and I guess I got my answer to my sarcastic question of "how do I empty the trash?" and the answer is "there won't be any trash". I also like towards the end, the section on taskbar. Pointing out a good half dozen negative things for them. While Windows 7 saw those negatives too, and addressed them, GNOME just gave up and went "well then taskbars are just stupid, who wants to know what they're running?"

#73

Here is a question: If the Gnome Shell won't be available without compositing, what will happen if there are problems or bugs w/ the drivers such that compositing can't be enabled? CLI only option?

I say this because right now I have a problem w/ my nvidia driver on Karmic and I can't enable compositing. But at least I have the Gnome panel, Gnome-do...etc.

#74

Merk42 said: I also like towards the end, the section on taskbar. Pointing out a good half dozen negative things for them. While Windows 7 saw those negatives too, and addressed them, GNOME just gave up and went "well then taskbars are just stupid, who wants to know what they're running?"

I really like the LiveCrumbs idea for overview of open applications and application switching... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL8472OXtAg

#75

I've just posted to the Shell list with a question & some thoughts:

Greetings!!

I've not seen any information lately as to running the Shell as a session--not just as starting it within your current session...anyone doing this & thoughts as to setting this up? I have been running the Shell as per the Gnome Live page & am having performance issues (slow response in window dragging & redraw) with very current hardware...Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD4P/i7-920 with 6G of DDR3-2000 & Dual nVidia 9800GT cards---any testing/logging that I can do to pinpoint the slowdown?

I know that there has been talk of late to do wider testing---is there any information about this? I'm in the Lucid Lynx testing forum @ ubuntuforums--there are several people who would be interested in testing---the thread is located at: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1305154 If nothing else--it would make interesting reading.....

Comments/thoughts/ideas/flames?????

#76

aethralis said: I really like the LiveCrumbs idea for overview of open applications and application switching... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL8472OXtAg

I do too, but as it's not in the specs, I doubt it'll get included.

autocrosser said: Comments/thoughts/ideas/flames?????

Not sure what there is to comment on. I'd like if Lucid had the ability to have GNOME Shell as a default session. Yes I know it'd be in beta form at best for Lucid, but I mean for testing GNOME Shell, and maybe since Lucid is an LTS.

Maybe your result will be like a lot of the posts I make on the the gnome-shell list. Promptly ignored.

#77

Live crumbs seems to make a lot of sense though. Top of screen, edge detect. Convenient and out of the way. It's early on in the shell cycle, I think it or something like it will be in the final release.

#78

Given that the version in the repos isn't going to be updated, do we have a gnome-shell ppa somewhere with git builds or something like that.

I swore I wouldn't subject myself to it again but I feel I should be honest and at least try a recent version for a few days.

#79

gnomeuser said: do we have a gnome-shell ppa somewhere with git builds or something like that.

https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/testing

#80

Greg K Nicholson said: https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/testing

Thanks for the PPA ;)

I tried it on my machine and it's unbearably slow. I've searched around and it seems to be a clutter issue, as gnometris is horrible too.

I know I have integrated intel graphics, but come on, I run compiz without the slightest hiccup. Anyone else affected?

EDIT: Didn't know KMS was needed for this, my bad, apparently. Enabling it makes gnometris and the shell work nicely ;)

#81

Is multiple monitors not possible right now? If I try to do it using TwinView nothing happens, and if I try it using a seperate x screen a whole mess of problems occur. If this is not possible, it should be before it gets released next year.

I have also noticed some performance issue after long periods of use, anyone else get this? I'm testing to see what makes it happen, last time it happened about an hour into a movie I was watching.

Edit: I think both of these issues only happen when I run gnome-shell natively and don't use gnome-shell --replace.

#82

I run gnome-shell from git with twinview using proprietary nvidia drivers (8800GTS), and I start it automatically by symlinking the file

~/gnome-shell/install/share/applications/gnome-shell.desktop

to ~/.config/autostart

rather than using --replace

It runs very smoothly at all times (subjectively speaking, at least 60Hz)

Maybe the issue is driver problem with SLI, have you tried without?

#83

Thanks Bob---

I created another user to test & still running into performance problems with SLI--I'll run one card this weekend to see if there is any difference..I notice that running the shell as a session I can't see my cursor in the panel area--if I know where it "should" be I can do things--when I go into the activities overlay I can't do very much--can interact with the "normal" desktop as usual....not sure what is causing that---I'm running a custom xorg.conf due to the SLI--maybe it is a hardware cursor vs software cursor issue.....

Nice to be able to test things as a "real" session.......

#84

I am a bit lost here I cannot find ~/.config/autostart am i missing something here?

BobCFC said: I run gnome-shell from git with twinview using proprietary nvidia drivers (8800GTS), and I start it automatically by symlinking the file

~/gnome-shell/install/share/applications/gnome-shell.desktop

to ~/.config/autostart

rather than using --replace

It runs very smoothly at all times (subjectively speaking, at least 60Hz)

Maybe the issue is driver problem with SLI, have you tried without?

#85

Enable your "hidden items" in Nautilus & goto .config---if there isn't a autostart folder inside .config, just create one & put the link to the gnome-shell.desktop inside it....

The autostart folder is created when you add startup items to your session, so it might not be there--it's not created by default. System>Preferences>Startup Application Preferences>Startup Programs tab.

Bob--I tried software cursor & almost b0rked gnome-shell--it did not like it at all.....still have a hidden cursor in session--I'll have to do some digging on that issue......

#86

Guys, I hate to sound stupid, but I just don't understand something here.

Is Gnome Shell going to replace the current Gnome Panels that we have at the top and bottom of the screen in a Gnome environment? Or is Gnome Shell going to be an additional option as a user interface?

I sure hope they're not dropping the gnome panels all together...

Is there a way I can get Gnome Shell on Jaunty 9.04 to test it out? Or do I need Karmic?

#87

Roasted said: Guys, I hate to sound stupid, but I just don't understand something here.

Is Gnome Shell going to replace the current Gnome Panels that we have at the top and bottom of the screen in a Gnome environment? Yes

Roasted said: Or is Gnome Shell going to be an additional option as a user interface

No (though initially it will be an option I presume, much like ext3/ext4)

Roasted said: Is there a way I can get Gnome Shell on Jaunty 9.04 to test it out?

Yes (there are packages, though I'd build it from source, actually very easy)

Roasted said: Or do I need Karmic?No

#88

Merk42 said: Yes

No (though initially it will be an option I presume, much like ext3/ext4)

Yes (there are packages, though I'd build it from source, actually very easy) No

I'm so anxious to try it out, but I have my doubts. But... can't be judgmental yet...

#89

Roasted said: I'm so anxious to try it out, but I have my doubts. But... can't be judgmental yet...

Might as well try it out, it installs int ~/GNOME Shell, so you can just delete it when you don't want it.

Besides, wouldn't you rather try it out now while it's in development and you can still share ideas?

#90

Roasted said: I'm so anxious to try it out, but I have my doubts. But... can't be judgmental yet...

So now is the time to jump in and test it--whilst we still have "some" voice in its direction--the developers are going to do wider testing soon, so getting a handle on it then being involved with the wide testing phase is a very good idea......

#91

autocrosser said: So now is the time to jump in and test it--whilst we still have "some" voice in its direction--the developers are going to do wider testing soon, so getting a handle on it then being involved with the wide testing phase is a very good idea......

I just sincerely don't understand why it has to replace the panels. Really? You can't make it an option? That alone just screams "bad idea"...

EDIT - I installed Karmic in a VM and loaded up gnome shell. Not a fan... at all...

#92

Roasted said: I just sincerely don't understand why it has to replace the panels. Really? You can't make it an option? That alone just screams "bad idea"...

EDIT - I installed Karmic in a VM and loaded up gnome shell. Not a fan... at all...

It always seemed more buggy to me in a VM, maybe it's improved. Like I said don't be afraid to do it in your actual install since it's all in your /home folder.

And well, now that you've seen it, read my signature...

#93

I agree--that is why I've been testing it & contacting the developers....I want the panel to be moveable...not fixed in stone...and the idea that a accelerated desktop is the only default is also a bad idea...

As for the background idea--its not bad--I've got use to working with it--the problem right now is that you adapt to it--not the reverse....

#94

Merk42 said: It always seemed more buggy to me in a VM, maybe it's improved. Like I said don't be afraid to do it in your actual install since it's all in your /home folder.

And well, now that you've seen it, read my signature...

Oh I agree. I have a spare machine at home I'll install it on. I was too anxious to get it rolling on my work laptop quick while I was waiting for an install to get done on a client PC here.

I'm going to be fair and give it a solid chance. I know it's early in development and I'll be reserved in my opinion about it until I truly have used it.

However, based on what little I've seen so far, I will (never thought I'd say this) happily switch to KDE if the final release is much like the current state of Gnome Shell.

#95

So I got the time to spend a few hours playing with it tonight. I clicked around and tried to get the feel of what the developers were doing with it and tried to get the jist of everything.

I think it has some interesting things with how the interface is laid out, but the actual menu system is so far beyond horrible it's hard to believe how it can actually be used in a production environment, something that Gnome really had a solid foundation in previously. If they would integrate ideas to Gnome Shell to the existing Gnome foundation, you might have a more solid idea there.

I know it's unfair to truly judge something this early in development, but uh.. if the final product is anything like what it currently is and anything comparable to Gnome 2.X isn't available to port into Ubuntu in any way, KDE/XFCE = here I come.

#96

Do not forget Lxde.

#97

ranch hand said: Do not forget Lxde.

a la Lubuntu. Can't wait to see the released version.

#98

Merk42 said: [*]Not being able to see what applications I'm currently running at a glance.

I also wonder if Ubuntu plans on adding it's own custom bits to GNOME Shell

AWN? It's very lightweight and stable for me. 0.4's coming out soon and it's adding a lot of more features. It can even be configured to behave like Windows 7's taskbar (it has a Panel mode :D). I have had almost no problems so far and I'm running the "unstable" version.

#99

Toadinator said: AWN? It's very lightweight and stable for me. 0.4's coming out soon and it's adding a lot of more features. It can even be configured to behave like Windows 7's taskbar (it has a Panel mode :D). I have had almost no problems so far and I'm running the "unstable" version.

I have a big problem with it.

I run two monitors, and it's prejudice against my primary monitor. In the settings there's no available change that seems available to force it to my primary monitor. All other docks I've tried have this.

AWN looks really nice, but sadly, it failed for me before I could even give it a chance. Maybe someday...

EDIT - I might just take back everything I just said. I found this:

The new AWN version (0.4 beta) comes with lots of new features, such as:

  1. Finally you can position the dock to the left, top or right side of the screen. You can also adjust the distance from the corner. This also works great with multi-screen.

Anxious to try it out at home now!

#100

Toadinator said: It can even be configured to behave like Windows 7's taskbar (it has a Panel mode :D). I have had almost no problems so far and I'm running the "unstable" version.

I'd like to see a screenshot of that, could you please upload one here i'd be happy and owe you one :p Edit: NM found @ youtube

#101

While I still haven't been able to made a newer version than 2.28.0 run on my machine (and I am certainly not going to start Gentoo'ing it and building my own) given the recent designs I am warming up to the gnome-shell. I am still unhappy with the decision to use Javascript but then again I am free to rewrite it if I decide I feel strongly about it. I am worried about the in-process javascript extension stuff and I worry about a number of other decisions.. that being said I am no longer as much against it as I have been.

There I said it.

#102

gnomeuser said: While I still haven't been able to made a newer version than 2.28.0 run on my machine (and I am certainly not going to start Gentoo'ing it and building my own) given the recent designs I am warming up to the gnome-shell. I am still unhappy with the decision to use Javascript but then again I am free to rewrite it if I decide I feel strongly about it. I am worried about the in-process javascript extension stuff and I worry about a number of other decisions.. that being said I am no longer as much against it as I have been.

There I said it.

Nooo not you too, you're my strongest ally!

Seriously though, building it from scratch is EASY. I get confused when I get stuff and have to do MAKE or whatever it is and was able to build GNOME Shell.

What recent designs made you warm up to it?

#103

gnomeuser said: While I still haven't been able to made a newer version than 2.28.0 run on my machine (and I am certainly not going to start Gentoo'ing it and building my own) given the recent designs I am warming up to the gnome-shell. I am still unhappy with the decision to use Javascript but then again I am free to rewrite it if I decide I feel strongly about it. I am worried about the in-process javascript extension stuff and I worry about a number of other decisions.. that being said I am no longer as much against it as I have been.

There I said it.

I've tried to like it, but I just don't see how it's really that... practical.

I mean, just today I caught wind that my boss was warming up to Ubuntu more and more. And I was almost saddened. I just think anybody in a business situation would be disappointed if Ubuntu, the distro everybody knows about as being one of the most user friendly, has an interface that looks like that. I just can't see it being applied to a production environment that easily.

But granted, I have to be fair. I have a lot of faith in the Gnome developers and I'm sure they can whip something real nice up. Plus it's entirely too early to really throw a solid opinion around yet, so I'm looking at this as a user who just needs an interface to get work done and I'm basing my opinion off of the current state of gnome shell -today- as I see it. But I truly, truly hope the rumors I've been reading are false, in regard to Gnome dropping all panels and using ONLY the shell. I really think a lot of users might turn away and drop it cold turkey if they don't have the option to switch back. But fortunately I've taken the time to get to know KDE, and we're pretty good friends now. So if I have to make a switch, at least I know it'll be a decent one. :)

#104

Well--the thing that I will point out is that I am VERY sure as soon as a "finalized" format comes out there will be people hacking it in all kinds of ways--And I would really bet that mods/config GUI & howto sites/blogs will grow like the weeds in my backyard :)

So, within (I guess) 6 months after it is released we will have plenty of ways to change/mod the shell to our liking...In a way, the more people that dislike the stock shell will promote the greatest changes to it...

I do remember when Gnome2 came out & the outcry of the community at that time was about as bad as it is now.......and I'm sure that a "Gnome4" will have the same problems 7 years from now........I guess that "proves" that there is really nothing new under the sun..

To end this rambling post---in the long run, we as users will adapt to and change things to the ways we use our systems best---GNU/Linux allows us to do that....I want to work with the developers & see how it is being done---so I can change things to ways more of my liking when the Shell is "final"....

#105

Merk42 said: Nooo not you too, you're my strongest ally!

Seriously though, building it from scratch is EASY. I get confused when I get stuff and have to do MAKE or whatever it is and was able to build GNOME Shell.

What recent designs made you warm up to it?

I have a better feel for where they are going now, the messaging system and tray seem to be well designed for my use.

I am not liking it yet having not tried it for extensive periods (having not made it run tends to do that) but I am warming to the idea. I am still on the naysayer side but I consider myself more prone to not considering it's designers and developers total imbeciles.

Another reason is that I really liked the Moblin interface and thought this was where we should go and I forced myself to use it for a long time. I did however find that this next gen interface was horribly flawed in actual use for me. I got to the point where when I was trying to design it in my head it came to borrowing ideas from the shell to make it functional. I still think moblin e.g. has communications much more right than g-s currently but I have a feeling that it will be easier to fix that in g-s than fixing the multiple other things that are wrong with moblin.

As for building it, it is not because I can't figure it out. I used Gentoo for years and before that I did Linux from Scratch. It's 2009, I'm nearing 30.. there has got to be a better way, to me that is providing daily git snapshot builds - like we have for chromium. That way I can focus on testing the software rather than building it.

#106

gnomeuser said: As for building it, it is not because I can't figure it out. I used Gentoo for years and before that I did Linux from Scratch. It's 2009, I'm nearing 30.. there has got to be a better way, to me that is providing daily git snapshot builds - like we have for chromium. That way I can focus on testing the software rather than building it.

That would be neat, I agree to that. Especially since it sometimes fails to build. Still, downloading and running the install script and then a regular "jhbuild build" is ok by me for the time being.

#107

'[h2o] said: That would be neat, I agree to that. Especially since it sometimes fails to build. Still, downloading and running the install script and then a regular "jhbuild build" is ok by me for the time being.

Then that indicates a problem on the part of the gnome-shell developers in forgetting to include automated build testing in their process - gstreamer here is a fine example of how this technic greatly improves code quality especially over time.

#108

gnomeuser said: Then that indicates a problem on the part of the gnome-shell developers in forgetting to include automated build testing in their process - gstreamer here is a fine example of how this technic greatly improves code quality especially over time.

To be fair it has very seldom been due to code that does not compile but to the fact that new dependencies have been added which were not installed on my machine. Downloading and running the setup script and then rebuilding everything usually works fine and takes me less than five minutes. Still, daily builds would be nice.

#109

I have told to them. They haven't done any usability research, they just don't have enough resources for that. So, let's cancel these tales about superior usability over the current gnome. The current gnome-shell looks like a toy that will do things harder to use.

#110

BbICEP said: I have told to them. They haven't done any usability research, they just don't have enough resources for that. So, let's cancel these tales about superior usability over the current gnome. The current gnome-shell looks like a toy that will do things harder to use.

Let's *not* cancel those tales! I've been using gnome-shell as my primary desktop envronment for a few months, and for me, it *is* more usable. I have also stated eslewhere that Ihave been conducting my own usability tests with a cross-section of my own clients and thus far a large majority of them agree with my assessment.

Gnome-shell is not going to appeal to everyone, but some of us consider it to be a sizable step forward. I can't wait to see the final product.

#111

I really like g-s, but for everyday use the development team has to think about dual screen setups (panel disapears on one monitor when I use Virtualbox in fullscreen on the other...)

thumbs up!

#112

I'm sorry, I've lost the thread where there is a description how I can run G-S from start and don't need to run gnome-shell --replace. Do you know how I can do this?

#113

qamelian said: Let's *not* cancel those tales! I've been using gnome-shell as my primary desktop envronment for a few months, and for me, it *is* more usable. I have also stated eslewhere that Ihave been conducting my own usability tests with a cross-section of my own clients and thus far a large majority of them agree with my assessment.

Gnome-shell is not going to appeal to everyone, but some of us consider it to be a sizable step forward. I can't wait to see the final product. I've made a pall for this question. 3 my collegues tried and don't like it. Another only saw it and found it to be very ugly.

#114

Well I've been using it regularly on three machines, a dual monitor desktop, a laptop and an aspire 1 netbook. I find it to be superior (given that it is still in development) to the normal gnome system. There are still rough edges but the ability to switch across multiple desktops and find active windows is superior. Also, especially for the netbook, the amount of usable desktop is much greater due to the ease of switching between workspaces and also creating new workspaces. I can put apps such as firefox and thunderbird full screen.

At the moment the major weakness is starting an application, having to resort to the keyboard is not always an easy option, especially when you are using the mouse intensely, as it requires either to drop the mouse or type one handed.

#115

Tompalaz said: I'm sorry, I've lost the thread where there is a description how I can run G-S from start and don't need to run gnome-shell --replace.

Do you know how I can do this?

Two ways---

  1. Put "gnome-shell --replace" in your Startup Items
  1. Simlink /gnome-shell/install/share/applications/gnome-shell.desktop to your /.config/autostart folder

Be aware that there is currently a bug with the cursor being hidden in panel or overlay---the workaround is ALT & F2 to bring up a run dialog & type in "restart"--the shell will restart & grab your cursor.

#116

autocrosser said: Two ways---

  1. Put "gnome-shell --replace" in your Startup Items
  1. Simlink /gnome-shell/install/share/applications/gnome-shell.desktop to your /.config/autostart folder

Be aware that there is currently a bug with the cursor being hidden in panel or overlay---the workaround is ALT & F2 to bring up a run dialog & type in "restart"--the shell will restart & grab your cursor.

Added that to the first post so it doesn't get lost again

#117

For some reason I need to run gnome-shell --replace two times. The first time I get this output:

tomas@Mac:~$ gnome-shell --replace

JS LOG: conforming method: IntrospectRemote for org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable JS LOG: Loading tweener.js JS LOG: Loading tweenlist.js JS LOG: Done loading tweenlist.js JS LOG: Done loading tweener.js JS LOG: conforming method: SetStatusRemote for org.gnome.SessionManager.Presence Window manager warning: Log level 16: Theme directory scalable/apps/48x48 of theme Dust has no size field

JS LOG: Loading equations.js JS LOG: Done loading equations.js tomas@Mac:~$

Second time it starts gnome-shell. If I add gnome-shell --replace to startup applications it just "half loads" and I need to run the script again in a terminal and that is what I don't have to do, because I always have this terminal running and cant close it 'cuse then gnome-shell stops.

Thanks for putting it on the first post.

#118

Tompalaz said: For some reason I need to run gnome-shell --replace two times.

The first time I get this output:

Second time it starts gnome-shell. If I add gnome-shell --replace to startup applications it just "half loads" and I need to run the script again in a terminal and that is what I don't have to do, because I always have this terminal running and cant close it 'cuse then gnome-shell stops.

Thanks for putting it on the first post.

You can also run:

gnome-shell --replace &

To make the terminal close without destroying gnome-shell, I think. And you always have alt+f2 ;)

#119

BbICEP said: I've made a pall for this question. 3 my collegues tried and don't like it. Another only saw it and found it to be very ugly.

You're welcome to your opinions, just as I am welcome to mine. I've been doing tests with a group of roughly 100 users, and the majority of them have very positive opinions of gnome-shell comared to the current Gnome setup. To each his own.

#120

So how do I run this with "vesa" or "nv" video driver?

#121

MacUntu said: So how do I run this with "vesa" or "nv" video driver?

You can't. But according to the Gnome Shell developers this isn't a problem because every computer shiped in the last five years has working 3D drivers that never fail.

#122

I'm wondering... how is this usable after a fresh install then? The 'proper' drivers can't be shipped due to legal reasons, right?

#123

TrueTom said: You can't. But according to the Gnome Shell developers this isn't a problem because every computer shiped in the last five years has working 3D drivers that never fail.

LOL, ok I've made up my mind about Gnome-Shell then... :D:D

#124

That's a fat lot of use - many people have older computers than that! I only have one that is younger. I like Ubuntu because it WILL work on old machines! I have a cut down system running on a machine well over ten years old :)

#125

Wouldn't the inability to run without 3D severely hamper its ability to run in a Virtual Machine? 3D Support in VMs right now is experimental at best.

#126

TrueTom said: You can't. But according to the Gnome Shell developers this isn't a problem because every computer shiped in the last five years has working 3D drivers that never fail.

very nice. my laptop with via graphics onboard is only 4 years old, but g-s is unusable and as far as i know my laptop, it never will be.

by the way, when running g-s (with gnome-shell --replace &), how do i get back to metacity? when i do ``` metacity --replace &

#127

Well tried rebuilding from source in a Karmic VM so I could break down the instructions and put up screenshots. However, it won't build because ``` The program 'jhbuild' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing: sudo apt-get install jhbuild jhbuild: command not found

#128

Merk42 said: Well tried rebuilding from source in a Karmic VM so I could break down the instructions and put up screenshots. However, it won't build because ```

The program 'jhbuild' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing: sudo apt-get install jhbuild jhbuild: command not found

#129

Gina said: What's the problem with installing jhbuild?

E: Couldn't find package jhbuild
#130

Merk42 said:

E: Couldn't find package jhbuild

[http://packages.ubuntu.com/en/jaunty/jhbuild](http://packages.ubuntu.com/en/jaunty/jhbuild)
[http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/jhbuild](http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/jhbuild)
#131

Merk42 said:

E: Couldn't find package jhbuild

 
Check /home/USER/bin is in your PATH. since that is where jhbuild is installed when running the initial setup of gnome-shell.  I've made that mistake a few times...
#132

qamelian said: ...a group of roughly 100 users...

Wow! That is a lot! Why don't you try giving the Gnome devs the info you might have collected? It would be very useful to them.

#133

MacUntu said: So how do I run this with "vesa" or "nv" video driver?

TrueTom said: You can't. But according to the Gnome Shell developers this isn't a problem because every computer shiped in the last five years has working 3D drivers that never fail.

I think this is quite a reasonable decision. This is on a par with "How do you run Compiz with the vesa or nv drivers?" - Ubuntu's out-of-the-box experience has been superior for those with hardware supported by open-source drivers for some time.

When gnome-shell becomes default, people without 3D support will get the current desktop. People with 3D support will get the shiny new shell.

t.rei said: I'm wondering... how is this usable after a fresh install then?

The 'proper' drivers can't be shipped due to legal reasons, right?

For Intel & (many) ATi users, it's usable out of the box right now; the open source drivers *are* the "proper" drivers. For nVidia hardware... the nouveau drivers will eventually take over the default install. Probably not for lucid, but I'd be surprised if they're not default in lucid+1. They should also reasonably support gnome-shell by then - they currently close-to-work on my nv4x card, and I think nv5x 3D support is now superior.

#134

Ah well it built, and yeah still won't run in a VM Isn't that a major downfall?

#135

RAOF said: When gnome-shell becomes default, people without 3D support will get the current desktop.

With 'current desktop' you mean what we have now or some special single activity desktop? I really don't care about removed/deactivated features as long as I can have a '3D-less' desktop that performs as well as the current one.

RAOF said: the nouveau drivers will eventually take over the default install. Probably not for lucid, but I'd be surprised if they're not default in lucid+1.

Yes, they're making pretty impressive progress. Suspend/resume kinda works and I even saw KMS in action on my 6600 GT. :D

#136

After using Gnome Shell more extensively, I'll admit I can see how it's relatively practical to use, but as others have stated - it needs a lot of work yet.

There's a couple things at first glance I don't like that I would like to see integrated, so I'm posting them here in hopes of generating some sort of "yeah I agree" or "bad idea roasted" opinions.

When you click the Activities button and you see all of your windows in thumbnail format, we should be able to delete the active windows from there. I would like to be able to right click on that thumbnail of that program and have the option to close it. That would make managing open applications so much easier since I could just see what's all running and right click - close, right click - close, right click - close, and bam I have all of my unused applications closed.

And one thing that is a very small pet peeve that I would like to see changed is the "more" button for applications is kind of small. Look at all of the empty space in between the actual word "Applications" and the word "More". Let's utilize that space a little more. Let's chop it - 50/50. Left side is not a button, just a section to say APPLICATIONS. Right side is a bigger button spanning across the entire right side to display "More."

I'd also like to have the option to expand to the right the options in the Places menu. When you hit more for applications, your available applications kick to the right. I'd like to be able to right click and have a menu kick out to the right with the contents of "pictures" or "music" or whatever I right clicked. That would allow the single left click to still be the real controller on launching that window in full screen. I think that option would be a nice one to have.

And lastly, that top panel - it needs to be customizable. I want to add my system monitor there. I want to see what my activity is on my computer as I use it since it also doubles as a backup/file server. I want to add some simple widgets there for my own customizable purposes.

So there you have it. I said from the beginning I have faith in the developers and I'm sure they'll whip up something good. Despite the fact I gave it some ****, I spent more and more time trying it out and I just sort of "got it" after a little bit. If a few things are changed I'll be an even bigger fan of it. Now to report my findings to the devs. :popcorn:

#137

I was just posting to the developer-list & saw your post, so I hope you don't mind that I included it with things I was talking about....You make several very valid points & I wanted to get them in for the developers to look at....The post looks like:

I am having the same problem with the nvidia proprietary drivers. Redraw is slow & moving windows lags behind the cursor---this with a SLI dual 9800GT set, so I do have more than enough GPU power to really accelerate anything onscreen.

I also like the ideas put forward about window placement/resizing--

[INDENT] *Suggestion:* My suggestion would allow users to draw boxes on their screen (which would snap to window edges / other boxes), once set the borders could be dragged and resized or the box removed entirely. Windows could then be dragged in to the box and if dragged near the top edge they would automatically fill the box. Alternatively you could put an application in the middle of the box and then when you use the maximize functionality it would maximize the application to the box rather than the full window. Boxes could be a bit unsightly so they wouldn't be visible unless the user is currently dragging a window, hovering over the maximize icon or if they are in the box setup system. [/INDENT] In the thread on ubuntuforums I read this:

[INDENT]When you click the Activities button and you see all of your windows in thumbnail format, we should be able to delete the active windows from there. I would like to be able to right click on that thumbnail of that program and have the option to close it. That would make managing open applications so much easier since I could just see what's all running and right click - close, right click - close, right click - close, and bam I have all of my unused applications closed.

And one thing that is a very small pet peeve that I would like to see changed is the "more" button for applications is kind of small. Look at all of the empty space in between the actual word "Applications" and the word "More". Let's utilize that space a little more. Let's chop it - 50/50. Left side is not a button, just a section to say APPLICATIONS. Right side is a bigger button spanning across the entire right side to display "More."

I'd also like to have the option to expand to the right the options in the Places menu. When you hit more for applications, your available applications kick to the right. I'd like to be able to right click and have a menu kick out to the right with the contents of "pictures" or "music" or whatever I right clicked. That would allow the single left click to still be the real controller on launching that window in full screen. I think that option would be a nice one to have.

And lastly, that top panel - it needs to be customizable. I want to add my system monitor there. I want to see what my activity is on my computer as I use it since it also doubles as a backup/file server. I want to add some simple widgets there for my own customizable purposes. (this comment from ubuntuforums member: roasted) [/INDENT]

For anyone interested in the current thoughts from testers/users: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1305154

Dean Loros Performance by Design Ltd autocrosser at ubuntuforums.org

#138

autocrosser said: I was just posting to the developer-list & saw your post, so I hope you don't mind that I included it with things I was talking about....You make several very valid points & I wanted to get them in for the developers to look at....The post looks like:

I think he'd mind, since he posted the same thing in the mailing list moments later.:D Look at "Suggestions for Gnome Shell." by Jason Sauders...

#139

Ha yeah, that's no problem. I got an email regarding it so I saw your post too attached to it.

I gotta admit, I'm really starting to bend over and swallow my words. I'm using it more and more on this computer and it really isn't as bad as I thought. As I mentioned above there are a few things that would be nice to see changed but, damn, I'm going to run gnome-shell full time on my spare rig (which I use quite a bit) to keep getting used to it.

So, I have gnome-shell actively running on Karmic 9.10 32 bit. If any updates get published to gnome-shell, if I sudo apt-get update would I receive those updates?

#140

Roasted said: Ha yeah, that's no problem. I got an email regarding it so I saw your post too attached to it.

I gotta admit, I'm really starting to bend over and swallow my words. I'm using it more and more on this computer and it really isn't as bad as I thought. As I mentioned above there are a few things that would be nice to see changed but, damn, I'm going to run gnome-shell full time on my spare rig (which I use quite a bit) to keep getting used to it.

So, I have gnome-shell actively running on Karmic 9.10 32 bit. If any updates get published to gnome-shell, if I sudo apt-get update would I receive those updates?

How did you get it up and running in the first place? the package or build from source?

#141

Well--I would say that the more times we "flood" the developer-list with things we want addressed the better....I try to not rip the words out of another's mouth, but I felt that his points were very valid & took the liberty to get them posted---I get the list in digest-form, so I only see a mail every 5~6 postings.....

As we are the ones testing it here---we 'uoght to be filling the list with impressions & thoughts on how to make the shell better---not quibble about how this or that part we don't like........My opinion--take what you can use and leave the rest......

#142

Merk42 said: How did you get it up and running in the first place?

the package or build from source?

sudo apt-get install gnome-shell

startup applications - add

name - Gnome Shell command - gnome-shell --replace

#143

That code is rather dated---you would see many changes with building from source--If you do--uninstall the .deb first.

Following the build from the Gnome Live! page works very well--I find that you need to cd to the /gnome-shell folder the first time for the script to "see" the version of jdbuild that the shell uses...after that you can just be on the Desktop & everything will build as normal.

I've created a user just for shell use--that way I don't muck up my main user with shell bits--I had a rather "messy" blow-up during Karmic from mixing my sessions....

#144

autocrosser said: That code is rather dated---you would see many changes with building from source--If you do--uninstall the .deb first.

Following the build from the Gnome Live! page works very well--I find that you need to cd to the /gnome-shell folder the first time for the script to "see" the version of jdbuild that the shell uses...after that you can just be on the Desktop & everything will build as normal.

I've created a user just for shell use--that way I don't muck up my main user with shell bits--I had a rather "messy" blow-up during Karmic from mixing my sessions....

Isn't it all just stored in ~/gnome-shell and maybe ~/bin? What happened?

#145

What exactly would I need to run in my case to get the version of Gnome Shell that brings down updates to my machine? I'm reading the Gnome Live page about GnomeShell and I can see how to do it, but it requires me to CD into a directory before running --replace. How would I get this to launch whenever I boot up?

#146

is it possible to set up a session for gnome with gnome-shell which i could choose from gdm? i have read that this is included in opensuse by default if you install gnome-shell.

#147

It was a early attempt to run the shell as a session--still unclear what happened, but I crashed things hard enough to prompt a reinstall--that was around Karmic alpha 4 or so.....As a result, I decided to run the shell in it's own session--I've not had any problems after that...

Also, that allows me to trim my user folder just for shell use....I'm still having rather large problems (as are others) with the restricted nvidia drivers & shell use..even with a SLI setup, my redraw & basic use is slow/labored....it's clear that mutter has real problems with restricted drivers--I don't have access to a Cross-fire ATI setup, but I would bet that type of system would have problems also..

#148

Roasted said: What exactly would I need to run in my case to get the version of Gnome Shell that brings down updates to my machine? I'm reading the Gnome Live page about GnomeShell and I can see how to do it, but it requires me to CD into a directory before running --replace. How would I get this to launch whenever I boot up?

After the system "sees" the shell for the first time I've not had problems with either of the 2 methods I've posted (look on the first page)--I like the .desktop method the best--simlinking from your /gnome-shell makes sure that your system sees where the shell is everytime.

#149

McDuff said: is it possible to set up a session for gnome with gnome-shell which i could choose from gdm? i have read that this is included in opensuse by default if you install gnome-shell.

Not as far as I know right now--I tried that as I indicated above & b0rked my system rather fully--it's easier to just create a user just for shell testing--you keep your own /home intact & if you manage to b0rk the shell usr--just rebuild or reinstall everything....no real loss

#150

I'm going to work on updating the OP. so I just want to check some things first. If I build from source, do I have delete ~/gnome-shell and rerun jhbuild build to keep up to update?

#151

Hm dunno, had never any problems following the instructions at http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell#head-3f60626bad6c0dbb60ecdbde36865c01a1dc1e98

#152

MacUntu said: Hm dunno, had never any problems following the instructions at http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell#head-3f60626bad6c0dbb60ecdbde36865c01a1dc1e98

Nor have I, but I wanted to know if there was a different, automagic, way of keeping up to date.

#153

Merk42 said: I'm going to work on updating the OP. so I just want to check some things first.

If I build from source, do I have delete ~/gnome-shell and rerun jhbuild build to keep up to update?

No--there are two ways to update from source--

dean@linux:~/Desktop$ curl -O http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gnome-shell/plain/tools/build/gnome-shell-build-setup.sh

dean@linux:~/Desktop$ /bin/bash gnome-shell-build-setup.sh

dean@linux:~/Desktop$ jhbuild build -f -a -c

Or just:

dean@linux:~/Desktop$ jhbuild build

#154

Jeez that was a heck of a rewrite of the first post. I hope everything is correct.

#155

Merk42 said: Jeez that was a heck of a rewrite of the first post. I hope everything is correct.

The final personal list is b0rked ;) What about the PPA some people we're talking about? Isn't that up to date?

#156

Arlanthir said: The final personal list is b0rked ;)

What about the PPA some people we're talking about? Isn't that up to date?

Whoops at least someone read it. I don't know about a PPA, but if someone else does it'll be added to the first post.

#157

Looks good!!! Available from synaptic is not rebuilt every day & sometimes the shell gets several updates per day--for a older, "stable" look---use synaptic--for the most current (and possible b0rkage) use the build from source method....

Note: I'm not seeing a PPA in Launchpad, just the main link: https://launchpad.net/gnome-shell

You might also note that at least the Restricted nvidia driver is not working very well with Mutter at this time :(

#158

Well it's not official, but I use this one: https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/testing

Someone mentioned it in a thread (not this one, though, I think).

#159

OK--I've tried Gnome-Do (won't work in the shell) & AWN (works, but slows my system to a crawl)--I've been having problems with the nvidia driver & Mutter---so is someone else adventurous enough to try AWN in the shell (that isn't using nvidia) & see if it's AWN or the nvidia driver that is a issue???

It looks like AWN would be a nice answer for people that want more control than the shell gives......I just need to know which way to start debugging....

#160

autocrosser said: OK--I've tried Gnome-Do (won't work in the shell) & AWN (works, but slows my system to a crawl)--I've been having problems with the nvidia driver & Mutter---so is someone else adventurous enough to try AWN in the shell (that isn't using nvidia) & see if it's AWN or the nvidia driver that is a issue???

It looks like AWN would be a nice answer for people that want more control than the shell gives......I just need to know which way to start debugging....

From what I see on your screenie, the new proposed visual changes for gnome-shell hasn't been implemented yet?

#161

AWN is working fine in the shell with Nvidia's 185.18.36 driver.

#162

frustphil said: From what I see on your screenie, the new proposed visual changes for gnome-shell hasn't been implemented yet?

Well--I've got the most current update running from source...Everyone must remember if you are updating source whilst running the shell to do ALT+F2--restart after the update or you will have strange things happen.....I've been updating every couple of hours to see when the commits come in.....

Thanks MacUntu--I'm running the 190 driver set--I'll downgrade & test....

#163

I've got gnome-shell going with AWN 0.4, I haven't noticed any speed issues (intel):

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/Josh0-4/Screenshot-18.png http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/Josh0-4/Screenshot-19.png

#164

Josh04 said: I've got gnome-shell going with AWN 0.4, I haven't noticed any speed issues (intel):

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/Josh0-4/Screenshot-18.png http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/Josh0-4/Screenshot-19.png

Good to see AWN working, since GNOME CLEARLY doesn't want people to see what they're running (without interaction). It's "a distraction".

#165

MacUntu--you were right--the 190 drivers are not "done" enough--I went back to the 185 drivers & now the shell's speed is much improved--still has lag, but I can "really" use it now....I'm dealing with a xsession.errors log flood from the shell that I think is the rest of my problem....

AWN works a treat--with a little more configure work it can replace my customized lower panel---so with that I "might" be able to use the shell almost full-time---we will see....

#166

Merk42 said: Good to see AWN working, since GNOME CLEARLY doesn't want people to see what they're running (without interaction). It's "a distraction".

I think the real motivation behind removing it at the moment is that with it there, there's not much impetus to be going back and forth to dashboard view. It seems kinda petty.

#167

Is there any way to alt-tab in gnome-shell?

If not, to hell with it.

#168

Starks said: Is there any way to alt-tab in gnome-shell?

If not, to hell with it.

Yes you alt-tab

#169

Doesn't work and I'm using the latest build.

#170

autocrosser said: OK--I've tried Gnome-Do (won't work in the shell) & AWN (works, but slows my system to a crawl)--I've been having problems with the nvidia driver & Mutter---so is someone else adventurous enough to try AWN in the shell (that isn't using nvidia) & see if it's AWN or the nvidia driver that is a issue???

...

In what way does GNOME Do not work? It's working fine for me here in gnome-shell land.

#171

Starks said: Doesn't work and I'm using the latest build.

I just rebuilt it and it works for me.

#172

RAOF said: In what way does GNOME Do not work? It's working fine for me here in gnome-shell land.

Interesting--I tried it & I just could not get it to work--AWN, on the other hand--started up the first time....go figure....Guess whatever works for you......

#173

Looks like it's in a really crude state ATM - I might leave it for a while. Depends on what time I have. Meanwhile, I've got a few other things to sort out - not least getting Lucid and even Karmic to run on my laptop.

#174

Merk42 said:

E: Couldn't find package jhbuild

Jhbuild was removed from the repositories because it was a severely outdated snapshot. Removing it was better than keeping it since it was causing many problems due to incompatibility and unfixed problems.

More information can be found in [bug #419363]("https://launchpad.net/bugs/419363").

I haven't tested GNOME Shell thoroughly yet, but the idea doesn't look that bad.
However, the fact that 3D support is a requirement does worry me. Not all hardware supports it, a selling point is that Ubuntu runs on older computers as well and not all 3D drivers work flawlessly or keep supporting old devices.
And what about the corporate users? Would they really enjoy GNOME Shell?
#175

autocrosser said: Interesting--I tried it & I just could not get it to work--AWN, on the other hand--started up the first time....go figure....Guess whatever works for you......

gnome-do is running here on gnome-shell, but doesn't react on ›super+space‹. having to click the notification-icon with my mouse prevents it from being very useful. in earlier versions of gnome-shell (e.g. the one in the repos) it worked though.

#176

autocrosser said: OK--I've tried Gnome-Do (won't work in the shell) & AWN (works, but slows my system to a crawl)--I've been having problems with the nvidia driver & Mutter---so is someone else adventurous enough to try AWN in the shell (that isn't using nvidia) & see if it's AWN or the nvidia driver that is a issue???

It looks like AWN would be a nice answer for people that want more control than the shell gives......I just need to know which way to start debugging....

Cairo-dock works like a charm , no problems.

#177

macvr said: Cairo-dock works like a charm , no problems.

Yeah... Cairo dock also has their long list of bugs to fix too.

#178

McDuff said: gnome-do is running here on gnome-shell, but doesn't react on ›super+space‹. having to click the notification-icon with my mouse prevents it from being very useful. in earlier versions of gnome-shell (e.g. the one in the repos) it worked though.

Ooooh, that rings some bells. Doesn't gnome-shell bind the 'super' key to the overlay mode by default, which conflicts with Do's keybinding? I seem to recall unbinding 'super' from overlay mode; another alternative would be to bind a different key to Do's 'summon' action.

#179

McDuff said: gnome-do is running here on gnome-shell, but doesn't react on ›super+space‹. having to click the notification-icon with my mouse prevents it from being very useful. in earlier versions of gnome-shell (e.g. the one in the repos) it worked though.

Just change the key combination to launch Gnome-do in the preferences under the tab keyboard.

#180

I'll try Gnome-Do again--might have been with the 2-fold problem of my nvidia driver issue & a b0rked file causing xsession.errors log flooding....I'll look at it again tonight..

Note: Yes--now that I have those problems "under control", Gnome-do is working....looks good here...

Note2: Now I just need to config it a bit........

#181

OK--I just was talking to another Gnome-Shell person & a thought came up--My xsession.errors log was being flooded with a file lookup & he commented that it looked like Metacity was trying to restart on a regular basis....I have been starting my session with a simlink to gnome-shell.desktop, so I changed to to just "gnome-shell --replace" and the remaining lag I had is almost totally gone......

So the recommended way to start the shell as a session in Ubuntu is with the gnome-shell --replace command in your startup programs...Not sure why this is a problem--people I've talked to with Fedora are not having this problem.....

So Merk42--you might redo the OP to reflect this, as it will give a better first impression of the shell...(and yes, I know some on this thread just don't like it anyway....), but it is nice to have some "real" idea of how the shell is working at this time....without having a problem that is "self-induced" & not easily found.....

#182
#183

Removed symlink option

#184

autocrosser said: OK--I just was talking to another Gnome-Shell person & a thought came up--My xsession.errors log was being flooded with a file lookup & he commented that it looked like Metacity was trying to restart on a regular basis....I have been starting my session with a simlink to gnome-shell.desktop, so I changed to to just "gnome-shell --replace" and the remaining lag I had is almost totally gone......

So the recommended way to start the shell as a session in Ubuntu is with the gnome-shell --replace command in your startup programs...Not sure why this is a problem--people I've talked to with Fedora are not having this problem.....

So Merk42--you might redo the OP to reflect this, as it will give a better first impression of the shell...(and yes, I know some on this thread just don't like it anyway....), but it is nice to have some "real" idea of how the shell is working at this time....without having a problem that is "self-induced" & not easily found.....

Remove Gnome-Shell from your AutoStart programs... You are doing it wrong.

Open up gconf-editor (Press Alt+F2 and type it in). Then browse to:

/desktop/gnome/session/required_components

And change the value of the "windowmanager" key to:

gnome-shell

This is how you should be doing it.

Regards Iain

#185

Thank you---I will look at that---

Have asked on the shell-list & got what I've been using as the answer.....

#186

I don't doubt the utility of awn, gnome-do, or cairo-dock, but they seem more like supplements of the gnome-panel than replacements.

#187

Well--I tried it that way & it did not work---Changed as suggested & restarted--got a normal session with upper & lower panels---as soon as I changed all back I got my gnome-shell session.

Using "gnome-shell --replace" in Sessions was suggested by Colin Walters, who I think, knows a bit more than either of us.......

tinivole said: Remove Gnome-Shell from your AutoStart programs... You are doing it wrong.

Open up gconf-editor (Press Alt+F2 and type it in). Then browse to:

/desktop/gnome/session/required_components
gnome-shell

Regards Iain

#188

MacUntu said: Maybe connected to this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/metacity/+bug/389686 ?

Yes--the bug looks exactly the same. I'll raise it up with the developer-list.

#189

I don't mean to beat a dead horse here but I still can't really fathom something. I've used gnome shell more and more and I really dig it. But I don't get the whole axing of compiz thing. Will there be any sort of eye candy, painting with fire, raining on the screen, or cube spinning abilities at ALL integrated in the system? Or will it just flat out be - pfft - none - period, done, compiz gone, all together. bye.... or what? Is there any info about their idea with compiz?

#190

Roasted said: I don't mean to beat a dead horse here but I still can't really fathom something. I've used gnome shell more and more and I really dig it. But I don't get the whole axing of compiz thing. Will there be any sort of eye candy, painting with fire, raining on the screen, or cube spinning abilities at ALL integrated in the system? Or will it just flat out be - pfft - none - period, done, compiz gone, all together. bye.... or what? Is there any info about their idea with compiz?

I never understood the point of painting with fire...

That aside there will be no compiz some compiz-like 'special effects' will have to be made with Mutter.

#191

Well-I have not heard anything--but I would bet that some mod config stuff gets built to do the Compiz thing--With the desktop being already accelerated, adding effects to it "should" be easier...You can most likely guess that the Compiz crowd is tearing the code apart now......

#192

Roasted said: I don't mean to beat a dead horse here but I still can't really fathom something. I've used gnome shell more and more and I really dig it. But I don't get the whole axing of compiz thing. Will there be any sort of eye candy, painting with fire, raining on the screen, or cube spinning abilities at ALL integrated in the system? Or will it just flat out be - pfft - none - period, done, compiz gone, all together. bye.... or what? Is there any info about their idea with compiz?

Because the shell is (bizarrely) a mutter plugin, no. There will be no compiz. You can't swap out the window manager from gnome-shell.

#193

RAOF said: Ooooh, that rings some bells. Doesn't gnome-shell bind the 'super' key to the overlay mode by default, which conflicts with Do's keybinding? I seem to recall unbinding 'super' from overlay mode; another alternative would be to bind a different key to Do's 'summon' action.

haha, that was too easy. i didn't take this into account, because i didn't see anything happen when pressing 'super' – must be because i only ever pressed it in combination with 'space' :D

#194

Merk42 said: I never understood the point of painting with fire...

That aside there will be no compiz some compiz-like 'special effects' will have to be made with Mutter.

Sure , other animations are just added bling but _wobbly widows_ is something which just feels natural. Everytime i switch to WindowsXP or Win7 it just feels unnaturally solid and weird.

While the wobbly gives the feeling of really moving some real document.

IMO , it is something basic and needed similar to the open/close animations. I would like to see that implemented in mutter.

Roasted said: Yeah... Cairo dock also has their long list of bugs to fix too.

Odd , not sure what bugs? have you tried the latest versions? are you referring to the openGL version not working for all?[that isnt a cairo-dock fault] OpenGL doesnt work for me either but I use the non-OpenGL version and it does its job pretty well.

But it is much better than Gnome-do [docky] or even the standalone docky. And much more customizable than awn.

#195

autocrosser said: Well--I tried it that way & it did not work---Changed as suggested & restarted--got a normal session with upper & lower panels---as soon as I changed all back I got my gnome-shell session.

Using "gnome-shell --replace" in Sessions was suggested by Colin Walters, who I think, knows a bit more than either of us.......

Well, somehow "It works for me" doesn't seem fitting...

So I dug up a little more:

What is the value of /apps/desktop/gnome/session/required_components/panel ?

On mine, that is blank "" ... as if you are going to load gnome-shell, you don't want gnome-panel loading. ;)

I'm pretty certain Colin may know more about the "inners" of gnome-shell too, but I'm certain that I'm not crazy.

Regards Iain

#196

I'll retry that this evening--I had changed that value, but not left it blank....(had changed it to gnome-do)---I do want your way to work--think that it would be a much cleaner method.

I just had a thought--are you using the repo-install or building from source?

#197

autocrosser said: I'll retry that this evening--I had changed that value, but not left it blank....(had changed it to gnome-do)---I do want your way to work--think that it would be a much cleaner method.

Other thing I could mention is: /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/current /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/default

Although, those keys should be deprecated/ignored in Karmic+ ... at least *should*.

#198

RAOF said: Because the shell is (bizarrely) a mutter plugin, no. There will be no compiz. You can't swap out the window manager from gnome-shell.

And that's why the Shell sucks.

#199

RAOF said: Because the shell is (bizarrely) a mutter plugin, no. There will be no compiz. You can't swap out the window manager from gnome-shell.

I'm not familiar with mutter. Is it some strange alienated code that they're using for Shell?

Just brings a tear to my eye I won't have my cube. :(

#200

tinivole said: Other thing I could mention is:

/desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/current /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/default

Although, those keys should be deprecated/ignored in Karmic+ ... at least *should*.

Hmmmm---I'm at my end for testing til tonight (off to work), but I tried with gnome-shell as per & deleting the gnome-panel--got a session (normal gnome)- with no panels--I then did the whole path to the shell (/home/gnome-shell/gnome-shell/install/bin/gnome-shell) & had the same result--normal session with no panels--

Not sure why it's not working here--must do some more thinking on it--as a by product of my tinkering--xsplash is now being "cranky" & trying to hang-on to the lower 3rd of my shell user....

#201

Roasted said: I'm not familiar with mutter. Is it some strange alienated code that they're using for Shell?

Just brings a tear to my eye I won't have my cube. :(

Mutter is the successor of Metacity.

It is based on the new Clutter Library - as used by Netbook-Launcher and Moblin to bring fancy (but not OTT) effects to the desktop.

#202

autocrosser said: Hmmmm---I'm at my end for testing til tonight (off to work), but I tried with gnome-shell as per & deleting the gnome-panel--got a session (normal gnome)- with no panels--I then did the whole path to the shell (/home/gnome-shell/gnome-shell/install/bin/gnome-shell) & had the same result--normal session with no panels--

Not sure why it's not working here--must do some more thinking on it--as a by product of my tinkering--xsplash is now being "cranky" & trying to hang-on to the lower 3rd of my shell user....

Wait ... you don't have gnome-shell installed in /usr/bin/gnome-shell ?

You do know it's in the repos, right?

(Last Note: I knew something had to be different ;))

#203

tinivole said: Mutter is the successor of Metacity.

It is based on the new Clutter Library - as used by Netbook-Launcher and Moblin to bring fancy (but not OTT) effects to the desktop.

Why was it mentioned as being bizaare they were using it? Is it some sort of sub-par coding?

#204

Roasted said: I'm not familiar with mutter. Is it some strange alienated code that they're using for Shell?

Metacity + clutter = mutter

Roasted said: Just brings a tear to my eye I won't have my cube. :(

I'll miss the inside cube too. Gave a feeling of sitting inside the system :p with gnome3 , I'm now not part of the matrix ;)

#205

Roasted said: Why was it mentioned as being bizaare they were using it?

Maybe because Gnome Shell - as a window manager (kinda) - is a plugin of Mutter - a windows manager. Dunno.

#206

tinivole said: Wait ... you don't have gnome-shell installed in /usr/bin/gnome-shell ?

You do know it's in the repos, right?

(Last Note: I knew something had to be different ;))

Ahhhh--so you are using the "older" stuff---I build from source--looking at the commits--I have been testing the newest code......Now I see why that is not working...:)

Merk42--looks like there are 2 methods--depending on how things are installed......

#207

Installed the repo version earlier. Felt like a lot of work to get around the desktop. Some brief notes, autocrosser or anyone using the current code, please tell me if any of these items have changed:

  • Applications Menu : hover does not invoke list expansion, must click
  • Alt+tab to switch between apps only
  • With all apps minimised, blank desktop, no indication of what is going on.

The format of the centralized "Activities" menu also seems a bit cluttered. IS there a key command to invoke it ?

#208

Points 1 & 3 have not changed.....I will have to check on #2 & your other question...I know there is a crib sheet--I'm at work, so do not have the info with/on me....

Side-note: I think I'm going back to AWN this evening, or maybe try Cairo-dock---Gnome-Do works, but it is not doing all that I want it to do--need a popup apps list (clickable) & a easier way to config the items on the dock.....maybe I'm too mouse-oriented :( must be from coming from a OLD Mac OS user.....

Regenweald said: Installed the repo version earlier. Felt like a lot of work to get around the desktop. Some brief notes, autocrosser or anyone using the current code, please tell me if any of these items have changed:

  • Applications Menu : hover does not invoke list expansion, must click
  • Alt+tab to switch between apps only
  • With all apps minimised, blank desktop, no indication of what is going on.

The format of the centralized "Activities" menu also seems a bit cluttered. IS there a key command to invoke it ?

#209

Regenweald said: Installed the repo version earlier. Felt like a lot of work to get around the desktop. Some brief notes, autocrosser or anyone using the current code, please tell me if any of these items have changed:

  • Applications Menu : hover does not invoke list expansion, must click
  • Alt+tab to switch between apps only
  • With all apps minimised, blank desktop, no indication of what is going on.

The format of the centralized "Activities" menu also seems a bit cluttered. IS there a key command to invoke it ?

[*]Hover doesn't invoke unless it's the complete upper-left corner. SUPER key also invokes overlay

  • Alt+Tab only between apps, Alt+` to switch between windows of whatever app is highlighted in alt+tab
  • All apps minimized does result in a blank desktop. This is my biggest complaint, and one that I feel won't get changed unless there is a giant report written up polling hundreds of people and sent to the GNOME devs.
#210

autocrosser said: Points 1 & 3 have not changed.....I will have to check on #2 & your other question...I know there is a crib sheet--I'm at work, so do not have the info with/on me....

Side-note: I think I'm going back to AWN this evening, or maybe try Cairo-dock---Gnome-Do works, but it is not doing all that I want it to do--need a popup apps list (clickable) & a easier way to config the items on the dock.....maybe I'm too mouse-oriented :( must be from coming from a OLD Mac OS user.....

Thanks for the quick reply :)

Off topic: I had a thought about gnome-do recently, what if we could 'dock' it into the gnome-panel ? So instead of having launchers to the top and panel to the bottom, we could get the functionality of both in one area. With settings you could select the width of do within the panel and middle mouse would scroll the launchers. All relevant key commands would apply... If I could code it, I would do it.

#211

Interesting......we would have to make gnome-do an applet & be able to assign it to the notifications area---I like that idea....

by-the-by---I was just looking at developer-list & thought you would be interested in this bug-report:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=602766

gnome-shell | general | unspecified

Summary: Activities should also be a task switcher Classification: Other Product: gnome-shell Version: unspecified OS/Version: Linux Status: UNCONFIRMED Severity: enhancement Priority: Normal Component: general AssignedTo: [EMAIL="gnome-shell-maint@gnome.bugs"]gnome-shell-maint@gnome.bugs[/EMAIL] ReportedBy: [EMAIL="francis.earl@gmail.com"]francis.earl@gmail.com[/EMAIL] QAContact: [EMAIL="gnome-shell-maint@gnome.bugs"]gnome-shell-maint@gnome.bugs[/EMAIL] GNOME target: --- GNOME version: ---

For instance, when using gEdit, when I click on the gEdit icon in the panel section, it should have a similar drop-down to the clock widget allowing me to choose any application that is currently open.

I don't think different windows for each app should be used, just one entry like the grouping in gnome-panel of all windows for one app, but it should definitely be able to do something. One of the first things I did when I saw this widget was to click on it, and was somewhat surprised that its just a space filler...I believe I will add to the report when I get home---you might be interested in doing so also......If your shell install is lacking this widget--tell me & I'll do a screenshot of it......

#212

Merk42 said: <snip>....and thanks.

  • All apps minimized does result in a blank desktop. This is my biggest complaint, and one that I feel won't get changed unless there is a giant report written up polling hundreds of people and sent to the GNOME devs.

How does this one make sense though ? I have the design pdf, this can't be seen as added functionality ;) right ? I look forward to improvements in the cycle.

#213

autocrosser said: Interesting......

by-the-by---I was just looking at developer-list & thought you would be interested in this bug-report:

I believe I will add to the report when I get home---you might be interested in doing so also......If your shell install is lacking this widget--tell me & I'll do a screenshot of it...... Which was later responded with saying that they aren't doing the breadcrumbs and clicking the application name would result in "global commands". Whatever that means, I guess things like "new window".

Regenweald said: How does this one make sense though ? I have the design pdf, this can't be seen as added functionality ;) right ?

I look forward to improvements in the cycle. How does what make sense? No window list? If so, it doesn't. But any mention of that to the GNOME devs is "lalalala I can't hear you, we're doing it this way"

#214

autocrosser said: Interesting......we would have to make gnome-do an applet & be able to assign it to the notifications area---I like that idea....

by-the-by---I was just looking at developer-list & thought you would be interested in this bug-report:

I believe I will add to the report when I get home---you might be interested in doing so also......If your shell install is lacking this widget--tell me & I'll do a screenshot of it......

Take a look at it again, "resolved-wontfix" :D Our only hope may be breadcrumbs, much like Gnome-do's intellihide.

#215

That is why I want to add to the bug report--that widget sits next to the activities button & is a perfect place to have a drop-down list of open apps.....

#216

CRUD******I just saw your post--maybe we "should" approach the Gnome-Do developers with the idea....

#217

Merk42 said: Which was later responded with saying that they aren't doing the breadcrumbs and clicking the application name would result in "global commands". Whatever that means, I guess things like "new window".

How does what make sense? No window list? If so, it doesn't. But any mention of that to the GNOME devs is "lalalala I can't hear you, we're doing it this way"

Sorry, was agreeing with your third point, should have edited better.

#218

Regenweald said: Sorry, was agreeing with your third point, should have edited better.

Which is what I thought you meant, so that's how I responded. So we're all good.

Well We're not all good in that we don't have a window list, but communications-wise we're fine.

#219

autocrosser said: CRUD******I just saw your post--maybe we "should" approach the Gnome-Do developers with the idea....

Thing is, there's no point in spending effort on a Panel Applet that will be obsolete when gnome-shell kicks in :S

They're saying the top panel is system-only, about every day on the mailing list =/

I think it's bad that they're not offering a choice, and I imagine some branches being opened... Still, a number of teams each doing their version of the shell is a bad way to move "forward".

#220

@Merk42 Need to get the same rapport going with the shell devs now :) with close to a year of development to go, I'm going "glass half full"

#221

autocrosser said: CRUD******I just saw your post--maybe we "should" approach the Gnome-Do developers with the idea....

Glad you like the idea, but.... as below:

Arlanthir said: Thing is, there's no point in spending effort on a Panel Applet that will be obsolete when gnome-shell kicks in :S

They're saying the top panel is system-only, about every day on the mailing list =/

I think it's bad that they're not offering a choice, and I imagine some branches being opened... Still, a number of teams each doing their version of the shell is a bad way to move "forward".

:We seem caught in an inopportune development time frame. I think in a few more months we will get some definitive directions on how all these projects will interact.

#222

Well--I'm continuing to test the shell & stay on the dev-list, so I will keep gently reminding the developers that this REALLY needs to be a REAL_WORLD application--not just a design playground....

Side Note: I just tried Cairo-Dock in the shell--Open-GL causes the shell to b0rk in a major way--Cairo-Dock without Open-GL works very well & looks to fill the gaps nicely.....

#223

autocrosser said: Well--I'm continuing to test the shell & stay on the dev-list, so I will keep gently reminding the developers that this REALLY needs to be a REAL_WORLD application--not just a design playground....

Do it all you want they don't care. I've brought up many issues, and I've seen others too.

How many are/will be implemented? 0

GNOME has this grand vision and if you dare tell them a flaw they ignore you, or basically say "well we came to that decision because of X, so you coming to a different decision because of Y doesn't count"

#224

Well--I have had a different experience than you have---Have had good talks with Colin about problems/fixes & he did "seem" to be listening to my comments....We will see how the Shell evolves during "wide" testing later this year/early next year--I "feel" that people will bend things as results come in....

Side note: The Shell desktop seems to be working well now--I feel that Cairo-Dock has all that I was missing & can round-out my use nicely......

#225

Wasn't the Shell supposed to have some sort of notification system at the bottom?

#226

PRGUY85 said: Wasn't the Shell supposed to have some sort of notification system at the bottom?

Ahhh... yes. Just when I was about to try out AWN. ](*,)

#227

PRGUY85 said: Wasn't the Shell supposed to have some sort of notification system at the bottom?

Yes, they haven't done it yet.

#228

Do you feel you need to use Gnome-Do or a Dock such as AWN, Cairo or Docky to properly use Gnome-Shell on its current state?

#229

Wasn't the Shell supposed to have some sort of notification system at the bottom?

Yes--it's not done yet & there have been threads on the dev-list about looking at Ubuntu's system---so it might not even be on the bottom to end up with.....So I've taken the time to just use something that makes it all work for me......

I've taken the next step to use the shell with my "real" user--so I will try to use it full-time--before now I had a different user just for shell testing--the only thing I will need to test out is using a OpenGL game with the shell. I "assume" that the ways that worked for Compiz will work with the shell--I will test with my backup user first.....so if I "blow-up" that user several times I don't really care.

So far....so good----I'm really liking Cairo-Dock its the best I've used so far--tons of options & reminds me of Compiz config (good & bad)---The shell is not b0rking with BOINC using 90% of my system resources--and that's a very good thing for me......:D

#230

PRGUY85 said: Do you feel you need to use Gnome-Do or a Dock such as AWN, Cairo or Docky to properly use Gnome-Shell on its current state?

I don't feel I require a dock. I use Do, but I use that in the normal GNOME desktop, too. I haven't really tried to navigate the shell's menu-like thing.

#231

Other than to test it out, do you feel it adds any advantages to the default config with metacity/compiz?

#232

autocrosser said: Yes--it's not done yet & there have been threads on the dev-list about looking at Ubuntu's system---so it might not even be on the bottom to end up with.....So I've taken the time to just use something that makes it all work for me......

Where?

#233

PRGUY85 said: Do you feel you need to use Gnome-Do or a Dock such as AWN, Cairo or Docky to properly use Gnome-Shell on its current state?

Yes. Its a solution for the dizziness induced by the massive jumping around every time I want to switch applications. The Alt-tab in G-shell creates an extra step which I can avoid with the docks. But then again, if I can't adjust to the jumping screens, I might just end up switch to KDE or something else :(

For now, I look forward with hope that they introduce a windows list somewhere.

#234

Merk42 said: Where?

Been a month or so back in the dev-list---I remember reading with some interest.....

#235

PRGUY85 said: Other than to test it out, do you feel it adds any advantages to the default config with metacity/compiz?

It's a set of interesting ideas. I like the overlay mode, and (mostly like) the application-based alt-tab. There are still plenty of questions to ask and answer, and bits need to be finished, but I'm hopeful it'll end up good.

At the moment, it's really more testing.

#236

autocrosser said: Been a month or so back in the dev-list---I remember reading with some interest.....

I hope you don't mean this

EDIT: Because I messed up quotes and I'm the one who brought up Notify-OSD

#237

Merk42 said: I hope you don't mean this

EDIT: Because I messed up quotes and I'm the one who brought up Notify-OSD

Well--there have been several other references to the Ubuntu Notify-OSD---I remember your post---I need to go back thru my private emails---some did not make it to the list---so were not "general-discussion" ---looking thru the list threads I've seen several different ideas batted around including the Raindrops idea & the recurring (and very good) breadcrumbs idea......

In any case--I get the "feeling" that the notify system in any guise won't show up for a couple of months---so I choose to use a lower dock now to make my life easier.....

#238

I was wondering about another idea someone proposed (I can't remember where or when). Since the top bar shows the name of the active window, can't we get rid of the title bar of each window? seems like redundant info to me...

#239

robinparriath said: I was wondering about another idea someone proposed (I can't remember where or when).

Since the top bar shows the name of the active window, can't we get rid of the title bar of each window? seems like redundant info to me...

The flaw in this other than not having something to grab, is say you have two different windows of Nautilus open...

#240

Merk42 said: The flaw in this other than not having something to grab, is say you have two different windows of Nautilus open...

Yes. There's always the need to have a title bar, when 'un'maximized, not just for moving around, but for plain identification.

I realize I didn't mention it earlier, but the idea applies to when the window is maxed.

#241

autocrosser said: ...

In any case--I get the "feeling" that the notify system in any guise won't show up for a couple of months---so I choose to use a lower dock now to make my life easier.....

The (start of the) notify system is already available, albeit in the 'message-tray' branch. Bonus points for working out how to make jhbuild pull from a git branch that isn't master!


branches['gnome-shell'] = ('gnome-shell', 'message-tray')
#242

Not tonight my friend-----I want to play a little UT2004 & slay some phantom foes :p

The thanksgiving weekend is close & that allows me time to play with possibilities.....

#243

Marina Zhurakhinskaya has a piece in the latest GNOME Journal explaining the basics of GNOME Shell, and the rationale behind some of the design decisions:

http://gnomejournal.org/article/85/easy-breezy-beautiful-gnome-shell

#244

Pleasant surprise---I had left the desk for a while & on returning, I saw my screensaver---Flurry (which is a OpenGL saver) running without a problem in the Shell session....So I fired up UT2004 & played for a while without changing anything......Last hurdle over....:popcorn:

#245

23meg said: Marina Zhurakhinskaya has a piece in the latest GNOME Journal explaining the basics of GNOME Shell, and the rationale behind some of the design decisions:

http://gnomejournal.org/article/85/easy-breezy-beautiful-gnome-shell

Thank you for the link & I would point out that the page has a link for the Shell Cheat Sheet for all who are interested....

#246

Oh, well. It was done by russians. Now I understand why is gnome-shell so unusable. We love doing such stupid things.

#247

PRGUY85 said: Do you feel you need to use Gnome-Do or a Dock such as AWN, Cairo or Docky to properly use Gnome-Shell on its current state?

yes, i do feel so. besides the other arguments for an additional dock, i'm missing a keyboardlayout switcher which i need in my daily work (currently only available in cairo dock, although i would prefer to use awn, what's more, do is running anyway&#8230;).

#248

autocrosser said: Well--I tried it that way & it did not work---Changed as suggested & restarted--got a normal session with upper & lower panels---as soon as I changed all back I got my gnome-shell session.

Using "gnome-shell --replace" in Sessions was suggested by Colin Walters, who I think, knows a bit more than either of us.......

To start a session using gnome-shell you need to :

You can run ‘gconftool-2—set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager—type string gnome-shell’ to always start GNOME Shell when you log in.

You can run ‘gconftool-2—unset /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager’ to reverse this change.

From > http://gnomejournal.org/article/85/easy-breezy-beautiful-gnome-shell

Merk42 , can you add that^ to the first post.

#249

macvr said: To start a session using gnome-shell you need to :

From > http://gnomejournal.org/article/85/easy-breezy-beautiful-gnome-shell

Merk42 , can you add that^ to the first post.

Yes--that is the way IF you install from a repo---that way WILL NOT work if you build from source---that way works with the gnome-shell --replace in your Startup.

It is also strongly recommended to remove "gnome-panel" from the required_components/panel section also.

#250

autocrosser said: Yes--that is the way IF you install from a repo---that way WILL NOT work if you build from source---that way works with the gnome-shell --replace in your Startup.

Ah , cool . thanks for clearing that up ;)

#251

macvr said: To start a session using gnome-shell you need to :

That command appears to be missing a couple of whitespaces. And I am probably mistaken but I only have gconftool (_not_ gconftool-2). Then again I run Gnome shell (from repositories) on top of XFCE with a couple of KDE things slotted in.

#252

I currently am using Gnome-Shell as my default window environment and,for a work in progress, I'm quite pleased. It allows for better use of workspaces and allows me to use more shortcuts to speed up stuff. It has a Gnome-Do quality in hitting the Windows key and placing the cursor on the Applications search field directly. This allows for launching applications without ever leaving the keyboard. I was impressed with the new Alt-Tab additions with showing progresses for the same application as an organized sub-tree.

Will continue to use and report. I am currently not using any Dock or Gnome-Do, just Gnome-Shell.

#253

Kinda off-topic, but since Empathy uses the notification system to store new messages and that's not available on Gnome-Shell (that I know off)...is there anyway to have new messages pop up on their own windows bypassing the notification system? You know...like Pidgin does. I'm trying to stick to the default IM to keep testing it out. If not I'll just switch to Pidgin.

#254

This doeasn't seem to be working for me...

Following the first post, running jhbuild build I get:

* Building gnome-shell * [7/7]

make make all-recursive make[1]: Entering directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell' Making all in data make[2]: Entering directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/data' make[2]: Nothing to be done for all'. make[2]: Leaving directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/data' Making all in js make[2]: Entering directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/js' Making all in misc make[3]: Entering directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/js/misc' make[3]: Nothing to be done for all'. make[3]: Leaving directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/js/misc' Making all in ui make[3]: Entering directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/js/ui' make[3]: Nothing to be done for all'. make[3]: Leaving directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/js/ui' make[3]: Entering directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/js' make[3]: Nothing to be done for all-am'. make[3]: Leaving directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/js' make[2]: Leaving directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/js' Making all in src make[2]: Entering directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src' make all-am make[3]: Entering directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src' CC libst_1_0_la-st-box-layout.lo cc1: warnings being treated as errors st/st-box-layout.c: In function &#8216;st_box_layout_paint&#8217;: st/st-box-layout.c:1099: error: &#8216;cogl_clip_push&#8217; is deprecated (declared at /home/glen/gnome-shell/install/include/clutter-1.0/cogl/cogl.h:651) st/st-box-layout.c: In function &#8216;st_box_layout_pick&#8217;: st/st-box-layout.c:1173: error: &#8216;cogl_clip_push&#8217; is deprecated (declared at /home/glen/gnome-shell/install/include/clutter-1.0/cogl/cogl.h:651) make[3]: * [libst_1_0_la-st-box-layout.lo] Error 1 make[3]: Leaving directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src' make[2]: * [all] Error 2 make[2]: Leaving directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src' make[1]: * [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory /home/glen/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell' make: * [all] Error 2 * error during stage build of gnome-shell: ########## Error running make * [7/7]

[1] rerun stage build [2] ignore error and continue to install [3] give up on module [4] start shell [5] go to stage force_checkout [6] go to stage configure choice:

must be missing something?

#255

gspat said: This doeasn't seem to be working for me...

Following the first post, running jhbuild build I get:

must be missing something?

Try doing jhbuild -f -a -c That will build/rebuild all installed parts of the shell--if this is your first time building the shell you might be running into a b0rk---Those resolve out within a day or so---if the commits have introduced a unstable bit it can be a chore to get things working---I've not rebuilt this evening--I'll look at the commits to see if there is a problem or not.......

This is the page to keep a eye on: http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gnome-shell & yes, there are some items that could cause a b0rk within the last 12 hours....look at this: http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gnome-shell/commit/?id=6b816fa7dc8cd65ba2c514ae84190628e4953da9 Make sure you do a major rebuild as above when you see major build file changes......

OK--I just rebuilt for the evening---Yes--do a jhbuild -f -a -c with the changes from today---several things would have had a problem without a full rebuild.......

#256

ok.. tried that, now it says:

jhbuild build -f -a -c

Usage: jhbuild build [ options ... ] [ modules ... ]

jhbuild: error: no such option: -f

???

also tried, as per your post:

jhbuild -f -a -c

Usage: jhbuild [ -f config ] command [ options ... ]

jhbuild: error: no such option: -c

Using jaunty build, from first post.

glen@glen-desktop:~$ jhbuild -?

Usage: jhbuild [ -f config ] command [ options ... ]

seems to want something after the -f? or the -c?

#257

Just try "jhbuild -f -a -c" not "jhbuild build -f -a -c" You don't need the second build.....

#258

autocrosser said: Just try "jhbuild -f -a -c" not "jhbuild build -f -a -c" You don't need the second build.....

tried that, gave me the error I posted above!

#259

gspat said: tried that, gave me the error I posted above!

My bad---Just got home from work when I posted & gave wrong info......You need to do things in sequence--do:``` curl -O http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gnome-shell/plain/tools/build/gnome-shell-build-setup.sh

/bin/bash gnome-shell-build-setup.sh

And then:

jhbuild build or jhbuild build -f -a -c

#260

yep, that's what I was doing...

I went with the ppa instead and it seems to work really well...

Is there some way to see what version is running? Like a build version number hidden in a dialog somewhere?

#261

Not that I know of---Glad that one of the ways worked for you---don't quite understand why jhbuild was b0rking---but as long as you've got something to test...that's good....

Note for general info: If you want a better amount or choice of applications in your "Activities>Applications" list---run gconf-editor, tip open "desktop">"gnome">"shell"--highlight shell & edit favorite_apps---remember to use the "real" name for the app--followed with .desktop. Close & check that your app(s) are listed the way you want---The default is wrong in the source-built shell for Firefox---listed as "mozilla-firefox.desktop"---we just use "firefox.desktop"

#262

When I go to activites > More > terminal, it takes me to the existing terminal. I need to fire up a new one. Is there any way for me to do it?

Edit: Ooooh never mind. Gnome-Do takes care of it. :)

#263

robinparriath said: When I go to activites > More > terminal, it takes me to the existing terminal. I need to fire up a new one. Is there any way for me to do it?

Edit: Ooooh never mind. Gnome-Do takes care of it. :)

When the time comes that you can't use a bottom dock----just add "gnome-terminal.desktop" as I outlined above.....Or in a already open Terminal---just use File>Open to open another terminal....

#264

Is the only way to manage favorites via the gconf-editor?

I noticed right clicking the icons in the application well gives a menu with "add to favorites" but it doesn't seem to work... as in it sets it as window:0x7f3690106fc0 or some other value, depending on the window.

Songbird showed up as songbird.desktop, but kde apps do not (they give the window:xxxxxxxxxxxxxx entry)

Ahh... alpha software is awesome!

#265

Shoot---you should have been using the shell 6 months ago---it was a "bit" crashie then--It's only been stable enough for regular use for the last couple of months---I just finally went to full use last week----had a second user just for shell testing before that......

And, yes--gconf is the only real way to work with settings right now--GUI work is normally saved for when the system code is really worked out--And that is not where the Shell is at present......

#266

How often is the G-S GIT updated? Liked to know so I don't rebuild the whole thing everyday ;)

#267

Tompalaz said: How often is the G-S GIT updated?

Liked to know so I don't rebuild the whole thing everyday ;)

Hasn't been anything new the past few days

#268

Merk42 said: Hasn't been anything new the past few days

last week's changes allow you to customize gnome-shell's look easily using css styles (gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/data/theme/gnome-shell.css).

#269

Was there any sort of change to make it so the overlay isn't activated every single time you need to do anything in the system whatsoever?

#270

Roasted said: Was there any sort of change to make it so the overlay isn't activated every single time you need to do anything in the system whatsoever?

No, and aside from Alt-Tab I doubt there ever will be.

#271

I have the following issue which I guess should be resolved sometime.

When clicking on a hyperlink in thunderbird (while already having firefox open on a different workspace) it appears that I have no response at all.

What actually happens is that the link is opened in the existing firefox application but because its on a different workspace I see nothing on the current workspace.

#272

Merk42 said: No, and aside from Alt-Tab I doubt there ever will be.

Not to be a smart guy about that, but do they REALLY think it's a good idea to activate the overlay ALL of the time for any little thing you do on the system?

#273

Roasted said: Not to be a smart guy about that, but do they REALLY think it's a good idea to activate the overlay ALL of the time for any little thing you do on the system?

As far as I can tell, yes. Read up on the design document

My major gripe of course is not being able to see what's running and/or switch easily.

Their answer? Overlay or Alt-Tab. Breadcrumbs are not part of the GNOME Shell, so they won't be in by default. It also conflicts with the actions GNOME wants when you click the application's name next to Activities.

They spent a lot of time on the overlay so they want it to be what you use for EVERYTHING. A one stop shop for anything you want to do. Of course that sounds good on paper, but isn't too good in practice.

#274

Merk42 said: As far as I can tell, yes.

Read up on the design document

My major gripe of course is not being able to see what's running and/or switch easily.

Their answer? Overlay or Alt-Tab. Breadcrumbs are not part of the GNOME Shell, so they won't be in by default. It also conflicts with the actions GNOME wants when you click the application's name next to Activities.

They spent a lot of time on the overlay so they want it to be what you use for EVERYTHING. A one stop shop for anything you want to do. Of course that sounds good on paper, but isn't too good in practice.

It's not good in practice. At all. For about a minute I was like wowwww neato I really like this. But then I started to feel... funny. Getting dizzy while multitasking isn't the way to go.

I don't mean to throw comparative sides into the mixture, but I think KDE has the right idea. You have your menu for opening applications and your task menu for minimizing/maximizing windows already open. Then, if you want the overlay, just drag the mouse to whatever corner of the screen you want. That way I know when I go to the menu, I'm hitting the menu. When I drag my mouse to the bottom of the screen (my panel is at the top) BAM - Overlay.

I really think Gnome Shell needs to adopt something of that nature to be as successful as the previous version is.

#275

Roasted said: It's not good in practice. At all. For about a minute I was like wowwww neato I really like this. But then I started to feel... funny. Getting dizzy while multitasking isn't the way to go.

I don't mean to throw comparative sides into the mixture, but I think KDE has the right idea. You have your menu for opening applications and your task menu for minimizing/maximizing windows already open. Then, if you want the overlay, just drag the mouse to whatever corner of the screen you want. That way I know when I go to the menu, I'm hitting the menu. When I drag my mouse to the bottom of the screen (my panel is at the top) BAM - Overlay.

I really think Gnome Shell needs to adopt something of that nature to be as successful as the previous version is. Yes I don't like the feeling of having to get out of my car to change the radio station.

Still. Read my signature...

#276

Merk42 said: Yes I don't like the feeling of having to get out of my car to change the radio station.

Still. Read my signature...

I did. I'm on the mailing list. I gave them a few suggestions, and each time they came back with "Actually, we did make alterations to it, but it's the exact opposite of what you suggested."

Awesome.

#277

Merk42 said: Yes I don't like the feeling of having to get out of my car to change the radio station.

Analogy of the year.

#278

Starks said: Analogy of the year.

That analogy reminds me of that Macbook Wheel video.

"Nothing is easier than one giant button. Everything is just a few hundred clicks away."

#279

Why do you want to know what applications are running? Why should I care whether firefox is running or not? What does that buy me?

There's already a huge raft of binaries running that you don't know about.

#280

I'm gonna go out on limb here and say maybe he is using several or even many at one time, maybe even switching between them. Why would you not want to know whats running? Knowledge is power.

#281

*Relevant* knowledge is power. *Information is not knowledge*. I don't think that if the information here:<snip> were presented as a part of my normal desktop I would be any more powerful.

If I want to switch to Firefox then I *already know Firefox is running*, it's implicit in the desire to switch to it.

Either that, or I *don't care* whether its running or not; I just want a Firefox window.

This is not really an argument for the way things are done in gnome-shell at the moment, just a general design issue.

#282

RAOF said: This is not really an argument for the way things are done in gnome-shell at the moment, just a general design issue.

Your example is a little slanted as most of those applications you don't directly interact with. They'd never show up in a menu list/alt-tab/etc

More to the point though, do you think the fact that you cannot switch to an application without zoooming out to an overlay or requiring Alt-Tab to be a design issue?

#283

Merk42 said: Your example is a little slanted as most of those applications you don't directly interact with. They'd never show up in a menu list/alt-tab/etc

Right. But why do I need a list of *any* of them? What benefit do I get out of having a list of some subset of those processes, and what subset should be chosen?

Merk42 said:

More to the point though, do you think the fact that you cannot switch to an application without zoooming out to an overlay or requiring Alt-Tab to be a design issue?

No, not particularly. I don't use a task list as it stands, and I don't miss it. For people who might miss it, large thumbnails of their windows present significantly more useful information than tiny icons in the bottom panel.

Edit: I know this will require a slightly different work flow to what you currently use. What I'm after is why the current workflow is better than the proposed workflow.

#284

RAOF said: For people who might miss it, large thumbnails of their windows present significantly more useful information than tiny icons in the bottom panel.

What seems to be the problem to me is that Gnome is so heavily trying to design an interface for (non pc people) that they forget that most Linux users are very smart people and would prefer something clean/fast. Instead of focusing on having a small learning curve they should focus long term use. I personally must admit that the 7 task bar is very close to this.

Despite the *boldness* of this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsZvwyxJ9vk It is a great video of possibilities.

Imo. Keep the top bar and add the docking capability of 7 (merge the two side panels from the video into the top somehow) Oh and please let me access the desktop via some kinda hot-corner. The desktop is my workspace, and while isn't cluttered (like most people I know) its easy and quick. Pretty much ever computer user I know stores file here a lot, as bad of a habit as it is.

ps. sorry if I'm interrupting </ranting> "You do know they plan on making it impossible to do such things right" 0_9 nothing is impossible in gnu/linux! :D *goes and cries in corner* mutters-"d#mn you gnome, I'll go make my own interface!" /switches back to windows pc. If they really want the interface to have no learning curve, why don't they just wait for touch screens....

#285

LiquidMeson said: Oh and please let me access the desktop via some kinda hot-corner. The desktop is my workspace, and while isn't cluttered (like most people I know) its easy and quick. Pretty much ever computer user I know stores file here a lot, as bad of a habit as it is.</ranting>

You do know they plan on making it impossible to do such things right? Think of it kinda like KDE's desktop, though I doubt even the folder plasmoid would have an analogous version in GNOME Shell.

#286

I'm trying to install gnome-shell from source because there's obviously a HUGE difference between the version in the repos and what you get building your own.

What's messing me up, is that stage 5, mutter, fails every single time.

I followed the *very* simple and straight forward directions in the first post, including installing the listed dependencies.

Stage 5 consistently fails with the following:

cc1: warnings being treated as errors
compositor/mutter-texture-tower.c: In function ‘mutter_texture_tower_set_base_texture’:
compositor/mutter-texture-tower.c:171: error: ‘cogl_offscreen_unref’ is deprecated (declared at /home/steve/gnome-shell/install/include/clutter-1.0/cogl/cogl-offscreen.h:98)
compositor/mutter-texture-tower.c: In function ‘texture_tower_revalidate_fbo’:
compositor/mutter-texture-tower.c:462: error: ‘cogl_push_draw_buffer’ is deprecated (declared at /home/steve/gnome-shell/install/include/clutter-1.0/cogl/cogl.h:833)
compositor/mutter-texture-tower.c:463: error: ‘cogl_set_draw_buffer’ is deprecated (declared at /home/steve/gnome-shell/install/include/clutter-1.0/cogl/cogl.h:823)
compositor/mutter-texture-tower.c:478: error: ‘cogl_pop_draw_buffer’ is deprecated (declared at /home/steve/gnome-shell/install/include/clutter-1.0/cogl/cogl.h:842)
make[4]: *** [mutter-texture-tower.o] Error 1
make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/steve/gnome-shell/source/mutter/src'
make[3]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/steve/gnome-shell/source/mutter/src'
make[2]: *** [all] Error 2
make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/steve/gnome-shell/source/mutter/src'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/steve/gnome-shell/source/mutter'
make: *** [all] Error 2
*** error during stage build of mutter: ########## Error running make   *** [5/7]


  [1] rerun stage build
  [2] ignore error and continue to install
  [3] give up on module
  [4] start shell
  [5] go to stage force_checkout
  [6] go to stage configure

#1 just wastes 5 minutes of my time and get's me to the same place. #2 'looks' like it works but leaves me with no gnome-shell executable to run at the end. #3 is ends the same as #2 #4 would be awesome if I had any idea what I needed to do to fix this. #5 returns something along the lines of "force_checkout is not supported" #6 is just like #1, but it's 10 minutes of churning instead of 5.

I tried "jbuild build -f -a -c" but get the same error about force_checkout not being implemented, and if I leave off the -f, I get the same results as before.

Does anybody have a clue for me?

#287

FYI, I'm running Karmic 64bit.

#288

Well--there were several commits within the last 9 hours that could b0rk the build--wait for a day & try it again...sometimes the code needs time......

#289

autocrosser said: Well--there were several commits within the last 9 hours that could b0rk the build--wait for a day & try it again...sometimes the code needs time......

Fair enough, and thanks for the fast response. I'll take another run at it after work tomorrow.

#290

VeeDubb said: Fair enough, and thanks for the fast response. I'll take another run at it after work tomorrow.

If that doesn't work you could try deleting the ~/GNOME-Shell folder then redoing jhbuild build

#291

anyone of those who installed the shell tell me how much i have to download inorder to make this work? because im using prepaid mobile broadband and need to put enough reload before starting downloading.thank you very much.

#292

VeeDubb said: Fair enough, and thanks for the fast response. I'll take another run at it after work tomorrow.

Hmmmm--I just did a rebuild with no errors---have you built before? If so, a build with jhbuild build -f -a -c will clear old builds & do a fresh run.....If not, it's possible that the build didn't setup well & you might just delete all of it & have a go again....At this stage of code there are several things that could b0rk things.......

#293

RAOF said: Why do you want to know what applications are running? Why should I care whether firefox is running or not? What does that buy me?

Because the world is not perfect and applications do not always anticipate your needs. A typical example is revolves around the notion of &#8216;session&#8217;: if you want to have a session with some application that is about -say- your website/portfolio in some editor you want to ensure that if you open index.html it is not a new session but rather part of another one.

And quite a few applications *do* have the idea that people open a session only once and then only use the application itself to modify the session state -- the notion of a concerted effort between file manager and application only exists on the meta-level of &#8216;integration&#8217; but certainly not as a modus of (application) execution: in other words the File Manager is not smart/integrated enough to offer &#8216;open in currently running instance&#8217; equivalents.

There's already a huge raft of binaries running that you don't know about.

True. But from a users point of view these binaries exist to make their applications possible and are therefore an implementation necessity and *not* something *you could possibly be bothered to care about*. From the users point of view applications and their settings are the show and the rest exists to keep it going on.

Essentially the difference is of the same nature when you go to a festival and want to know about the various acts that will be on stage but can't really be bothered about the schedule of stage crews.

#294

emigrant said: anyone of those who installed the shell tell me how much i have to download inorder to make this work? because im using prepaid mobile broadband and need to put enough reload before starting downloading.thank you very much.

I would guess that 30mb would cover things neatly...I've not really looked into the sizes, but I've got a 1.5mb down connection & after the first depends are on your system it takes only a few minutes to download---far more time to build it...as per normal with source-built software.....

#295

Merk42 said: If that doesn't work you could try deleting the ~/GNOME-Shell folder then redoing jhbuild build

'mazing we both type about the same thing without seeing the other's post (you first--me not seeing)---has the 'Shell come so far as to be a formula build ;)

'ot save us all!!!!! The "future" comes hither :D

#296

RAOF said: What I'm after is why the current workflow is better than the proposed workflow.

I get from A to B with one click - hard to beat.

#297

MacUntu said: I get from A to B with one click - hard to beat.

That happens with the overlay, too. Swing mouse up, swing mouse back, click.

#298

Is there a way to get the overlay to show "instantly" (something like <100ms)?

#299

Merk42 said: If that doesn't work you could try deleting the ~/GNOME-Shell folder then redoing jhbuild build

I've actually deleted that folder several times over.

autocrosser said: Hmmmm--I just did a rebuild with no errors---have you built before? If so, a build with jhbuild build -f -a -c will clear old builds & do a fresh run.....

I think this may be part of the problem. -f is _not_ a valid option for jhbuild. I've tried it several times both from the command line, and from the menu that pops up after the error. It keeps telling me that it's not implemented.

Can you give me a link for the proper version of jhbuild for Karmic 64 bit? It's not in the repos, and the version I've downloaded does not appear to be the same one you're using.

#300

autocrosser said: I would guess that 30mb would cover things neatly...I've not really looked into the sizes, but I've got a 1.5mb down connection & after the first depends are on your system it takes only a few minutes to download---far more time to build it...as per normal with source-built software.....

$ sudo apt-get install libgstreamer0.10-dev libcroco3-dev xserver-xephyr xulrunner-dev python-dev mesa-common-dev libreadline5-dev libgl1-mesa-dev libwnck-dev librsvg2-dev libgnome-desktop-dev libgnome-menu-dev libffi-dev libgtk2.0-dev libgconf2-dev libdbus-glib-1-dev gtk-doc-tools gnome-common git-core flex bison automake build-essential
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
  libemeraldengine0
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
The following extra packages will be installed:
  autoconf autotools-dev cvs debhelper docbook docbook-dsssl docbook-to-man
  docbook-xsl docbook-xsl-doc-html dpkg-dev fakeroot g++ g++-4.4 gettext
  gtk2-engines-pixbuf html2text intltool intltool-debian jade libatk1.0-dev
  libcairo2-dev libdbus-1-dev libdigest-sha1-perl libdirectfb-dev
  libdirectfb-extra liberror-perl libexpat1-dev libfontconfig1-dev
  libfreetype6-dev libgail-common libgail18 libglib2.0-dev
  libgnome-desktop-2-11 libgtk2.0-0 libidl-dev libjpeg62-dev libltdl-dev
  libmail-sendmail-perl libncurses5-dev libnspr4-dev libnss3-dev liborbit2-dev
  libpango1.0-dev libpixman-1-dev libpng12-dev libpython2.6 libreadline5
  libruby1.8 libsp1c2 libstartup-notification0-dev libstdc++6-4.4-dev
  libsys-hostname-long-perl libsysfs-dev libtool libxcb-render-util0-dev
  libxcb-render0-dev libxcomposite-dev libxcursor-dev libxdamage-dev
  libxext-dev libxfixes-dev libxft-dev libxi-dev libxinerama-dev libxml2-dev
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[COLOR=Red]Need to get 69.9MB/70.0MB of archives[/COLOR].
After this operation, 208MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y

:KS:p:o

#301
#302

emigrant said: same problem as:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=8424488&postcount=287 :mad: Occassionally GS fails to build. Try cleaning your old build, redownload the build-setup script and rerun it from the beginning. IF that doesn't solve the problem wait a few days and try again.

#303

'[h2o] said: Occassionally GS fails to build. Try cleaning your old build, redownload the build-setup script and rerun it from the beginning. IF that doesn't solve the problem wait a few days and try again.

it worked like this: removed the jaunty jhbuild and installed the debial jhbuild. :)

#304

GGGGGGHHHRRRRRRR :evil: how to go to System>admin or System>preference apps :mad:

#305

emigrant said: GGGGGGHHHRRRRRRR :evil:

how to go to System>admin or System>preference apps :mad: ok i could get the system preference by clicking on the user name at the top right corner. accessing the administration remains a mystery :D

#306

The Debian jhbuild package resolved the build errors for me on amd64 bit.

Try removing jhbuild and then install this: http://packages.debian.org/sid/amd64/jhbuild/download

HTH

#307

RAOF said: *Relevant* knowledge is power. *Information is not knowledge*. I don't think that if the information here:<snip>

were presented as a part of my normal desktop I would be any more powerful.

If I want to switch to Firefox then I *already know Firefox is running*, it's implicit in the desire to switch to it.

Either that, or I *don't care* whether its running or not; I just want a Firefox window.

This is not really an argument for the way things are done in gnome-shell at the moment, just a general design issue.

In your opinion.....In my world all knowledge is power, I decide what is relevant and what is not. Really thats up to the user, which means its going to be different depending on the use of the computer. If you try and second guess the user, aren't your headed down the path of the lowest common denominator solution?

Now that data <snip> is all running processes, I was under the impression we were referring to just applications running in the task bar? From Merk42 statement he seems to value the ability to see whats running and the ability to switch between applications, he even suggests his future 2 options Overlay vs Alt+Tab. Am I way off base?

#308

ok, I've been using the shell for a few days now, using the ricotz ppa.

What I'm missing is an easy way to see the running apps using only the mouse (hot-cornering has never been a normal approach for me).

I tried subscribing to the mail list, but never seem to get a confirmation email back! How long do I have to wait for one.. hours, days, weeks? (I'm on days now... :() Isn't it supposed to be automatic?

.:Edit

I have to learn to be more patient, and check my spam folder!

#309

gspat said: ok, I've been using the shell for a few days now, using the ricotz ppa.

What I'm missing is an easy way to see the running apps using only the mouse (hot-cornering has never been a normal approach for me).

I tried subscribing to the mail list, but never seem to get a confirmation email back! How long do I have to wait for one.. hours, days, weeks? (I'm on days now... :() Isn't it supposed to be automatic?

.:Edit

I have to learn to be more patient, and check my spam folder!

Well gee why would you want to know what apps you're running :rolleyes: (see the last few posts to see what I'm talking about)

#310

Reiger said: Because the world is not perfect and applications do not always anticipate your needs. A typical example is revolves around the notion of ‘session’: if you want to have a session with some application that is about -say- your website/portfolio in some editor you want to ensure that if you open index.html it is not a new session but rather part of another one.

Actually, I think the overlay makes this use-case *easier*. Since the way to start Firefox is from the overlay, you'll have a big firefox preview if it's already running. So, at the point when you want to make the decision "do I want to start a new firefox, or switch to an existing instance" you've got good information to base this decision on.

Reiger said:

And quite a few applications *do* have the idea that people open a session only once and then only use the application itself to modify the session state -- the notion of a concerted effort between file manager and application only exists on the meta-level of ‘integration’ but certainly not as a modus of (application) execution: in other words the File Manager is not smart/integrated enough to offer ‘open in currently running instance’ equivalents.

These applications should be single-instance. It's not hard to do; there's a simple library to make it work.

click4851 said: In your opinion.....In my world all knowledge is power, I decide what is relevant and what is not. Really thats up to the user, which means its going to be different depending on the use of the computer. If you try and second guess the user, aren't your headed down the path of the lowest common denominator solution?

So, would you like to have a list of running processes on screen all the time? Do you think this should be the default?

Design *invariably* involves deciding what's relevant and what's not relevant. This is why we don't have a list of running processes displayed on the screen by default; why firefox doesn't have a running list of HTTP headers sent/received in the status-bar; why pidgin doesn't show the raw xml of your XMPP conversations. These are all situations where more information is *less* power - it's (for almost all users) irrelevant information that *obscures* the information that they need.

click4851 said:

Now that data <snip> is all running processes, I was under the impression we were referring to just applications running in the task bar? From Merk42 statement he seems to value the ability to see whats running and the ability to switch between applications, he even suggests his future 2 options Overlay vs Alt+Tab. Am I way off base? I'm questioning *why* he values the ability to see what's running. Or, rather, why he values having a list of running applications continuously visible - it's still possible to see what's running, and to switch between applications. The difference is that the list of running applications is no longer on the screen all the time - in gnome-shell, it's only there when you want to switch (or start) applications.

What is insufficient about this? What does a continuously visible list of running applications get you?

#311

RAOF said: What is insufficient about this? What does a continuously visible list of running applications get you?

I'd like to solely use my mouse and zooming out to switch applications is disorienting.

This is why I am also a fan of the breadcrumbs idea, but that won't happen because it conflicts with what GNOME wants to do when you click the applications name.

#312

Merk42 said: I'd like to solely use my mouse and zooming out to switch applications is disorienting.

This is why I am also a fan of the breadcrumbs idea, but that won't happen because it conflicts with what GNOME wants to do when you click the applications name.

I quite like the breadcrumbs idea myself.

So... would what you want be satisfied by something duplicating the current "Window picker" applet? It looks like that could be duplicated by a shell extension.

#313

RAOF said: I quite like the breadcrumbs idea myself.

So... would what you want be satisfied by something duplicating the current "Window picker" applet? It looks like that could be duplicated by a shell extension.

I see "Window List" (what is in GNOME 2.X) and "Window Selector" (which is I think how Mac OS <= 9 did it). Either is fine

Breadcrumbs from what I saw is like a mix of Window Selector and Windows Explorer in Windows 7

#314

I could probably find some study that confirms that if too many elements change under your view you need to process more information and this makes the task you are about to do more energy consuming. When I have an overview of my open applications just a glance below away (as it is now) the workspace stays mostly the same and I can plan ahead with minimal change of attention.

As I'm working mostly with OOo and have sometimes five or more instances of different texts open, I have even very limited use of different docks (I have tried them and found unusable for such kind of work). Also the gnome shell way (tried that too) is for such purposes unusable. I would go not so far as to say that this is a wasted effort, but I would probably find that GS makes my work less productive. I tried to adapt to its concepts and in some respect its interesting and innovative, but the direction it is going now seems not to take into account such kind of work as I'm doing. If you have 6 text documents open they look quite similar in such expose view (overlay view?). And the current implementation of Alt+Tab does not help here either, as the documents get hidden behind screen borders and you have to no way to switch to them. All in all I'm really curious how it is planned to resolve such questions.

#315

aethralis said: f you have 6 text documents open they look quite similar in such expose view (overlay view?). And the current implementation of Alt+Tab does not help here either, as the documents get hidden behind screen borders and you have to no way to switch to them. All in all I'm really curious how it is planned to resolve such questions.

If you have 6 documents of the same application open, alt+`

Alt-Tab switches between applications Alt-` switches between documents of active application

#316

Meanwhile, Colin Walters is about to land his extension system patch, which, it seems, will let you monkey patch the shell on the fly by loading arbitrary JS and CSS.

Which, in the context of recent posts to this thread, translates to: it seems that if people disagree with the way GNOME Shell handles task switching by default, the barriers in front of having their own way instead will be exceptionally low.

#317

RAOF said: I quite like the breadcrumbs idea myself.

So... would what you want be satisfied by something duplicating the current "Window picker" applet? It looks like that could be duplicated by a shell extension.

Gnome devs are using the applications button for application specific tasks. Why not make the top of the screen 'edge detect' and have the breadcrumbs slide out over the shell for application listing ? No one is using the top line of pixels I think :)

#318

I like where this (http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/BreadcrumbsEtc) is heading.

+color is defined by background |unless themed -+most recent have richer color --+alternate color if attention is needed

+maximised window merges into the top shell bar (think ff4.0) applications should be able to modify its presence in the bar, alerts/ loading etc.

+all current workspace apps should be shown -+non active apps that are running are compressed to icon form --+there should be the ability to dock apps ex. activities > workspace 1> (omgubuntu - firefox) (t) (r) (n) note:while icon's may ruin the sheik of the top bar they could possibly be made white/black/transparent. using icons to switch between apps is familiar, quick, and easy. Not to mention both osx and windows now use this as a primary form. As gnome begins to tie back into the web the icons could also represent website or even status markers.

(don't really need to know I'm in workspace 1, that's what activities is for ;D)

https://wiki.mozilla.org/images/f/f6/Fx-4.0-Direction-Phase-01.png just thinking about ff4.0 makes me wonder...interesting if the interface was a modified version of that theme @_@ ex. -home icon = activities -hitting the +icon turned into a gnome-do search box. -minimize/close are merged back into current app like in the breadcrumbs images

Can't wait till 10/10/10. :popcorn: props to all the devs workin on this radical shift.

#319

Merk42 said: Alt-Tab switches between applications

Alt-` switches between documents of active application

I seem not to be able to find the Alt+. I imagine it () is supposed to be the key above Tab? For me it does not do the trick though, probably due to the fact that I'm using non English keyboard which has (&#711;) under the same key...

#320

aethralis said: I seem not to be able to find the Alt+. I imagine it () is supposed to be the key above Tab? For me it does not do the trick though, probably due to the fact that I'm using non English keyboard which has (&#711;) under the same key...

Yeah try whatever is above Tab. That's what the key is supposed to be. Odd that it doesn't work though.

#321

RAOF, you're not doing a very good job of convincing us that gnome-shell is a good idea when you consider every flaw we point out to be a "feature".

#322

I've installed gnome shell. The little I've seen is really awesome! Can't wait for the newer feature :)

#323

Starks said: RAOF, you're not doing a very good job of convincing us that gnome-shell is a good idea when you consider every flaw we point out to be a "feature".

gnome-shell is deliberately quite different. I'm trying to work out (and help others work out) if the flaws are "it's different to what I'm used to" or "there's something that I need to do that it does worse". We're all GNOME 2.0 power-users here - because gnome-shell has a quite different design I think we'll tend to think it's worse. In a similar way that Windows power-users find the transition to GNOME harder - we're very, *very* used to the way things work now, and when the shell doesn't support the same workflow as easily, we tend to consider it a flaw.

I certainly don't think gnome-shell is flawless; for example, from an implementation perspective I don't think having the shell as an in-process plugin for the desktop compositor is a good idea. I think some of the design ideas are good, and some are interesting, though.

#324

aethralis said: I could probably find some study that confirms that if too many elements change under your view you need to process more information and this makes the task you are about to do more energy consuming. When I have an overview of my open applications just a glance below away (as it is now) the workspace stays mostly the same and I can plan ahead with minimal change of attention.

at the moment, this is the thing that bothers me most about g-s, although i like it generally. i'm doing a lot of work with texts usually with kile (tabbed interface) and one or two oo-windows open. switching between them with alt+tab is no problem. but when i want to open a browser for looking up st. in an online dictionary, the visual changes of g-s distract very much from the workflow—much more than even navigating through a menu would.

my workarounds for this are currently

  • awn, set to autohide or transparent
  • gnome-do – not having to leave the keyboard is just great when working with texts
#325

Merk42 said: Yeah try whatever is above Tab. That's what the key is supposed to be. Odd that it doesn't work though.

this seems not to work on keyboards that don’t have the backtick on the key above tab. i tried it with various layouts—neither the key above tab (whatever be its function) nor the backtick work.

#326

Starks said: RAOF, you're not doing a very good job of convincing us that gnome-shell is a good idea when you consider every flaw we point out to be a "feature".

I guess it depends on your point of view. I agree with RAOF on the vast majority of what he is saying, and in fact these are among the same reasons I prefer Gnome-shell to Gnome 2.X. I prefer it strongly enough that it has been my default desktop environment for a while now and I'm uncomfortable when I need to go back to "old" Gnome, as it now feels confining to me. When I first made the switch, I did need to make some minor adjustments to a couple of my work habits but that ended up being a good thing, as I find Gnome-shell a much more productive environment than the current Gnome.

#327

qamelian said: I guess it depends on your point of view. I agree with RAOF on the vast majority of what he is saying, and in fact these are among the same reasons I prefer Gnome-shell to Gnome 2.X. I prefer it strongly enough that it has been my default desktop environment for a while now and I'm uncomfortable when I need to go back to "old" Gnome, as it now feels confining to me. When I first made the switch, I did need to make some minor adjustments to a couple of my work habits but that ended up being a good thing, as I find Gnome-shell a much more productive environment than the current Gnome.

As somebody who works in a large business environment, I honestly cannot see how Gnome Shell will take off in the business world for those people out there who utilize Ubuntu in their workplace currently. My boss was really looking into Ubuntu, but when he realized Gnome Shell was the future with no chance of using the standard panel setup, he was kind of bummed.... until I showed him Kubuntu. ;) The desktop environment that has the right idea between activation of the overlay while not forcing you to get dizzy every time you need to open up the menu. Genius.

I really cannot fathom that ridiculous overlay. I mean, it's great. But why activate it for EVERYTHING you do? It doesn't make sense... But like somebody else here intelligently said - To get out of your car to change your radio station is ridiculous.

If they don't make some simple changes to make the overlay activate a little more intelligently, I have severe doubt of Gnome Shell being the top dog it currently is, and even doubt in Gnome being the "default" desktop for Ubuntu in the future. I've used Gnome Shell extensively, and I am a huge Gnome fanatic who's used it exclusively for years. But I just don't know what those developers are thinking. It's a great idea, but something so simple such as the overlay being required for -everything- as well as no Compiz support (which fuels the Linux newcomers) just doesn't make much sense. Not only that, but the panels SHOULD absolutely positively be an option. Period. Done. Over. It should be an option. I know what it's like when you try to integrate a new application, newer operating system, newer computer, or anything like that to standard users. But geez, I'd get hung if I ever dropped something that got a severe overhaul in front of somebody and said, sorry, this is what you got. Enjoy.

*sigh*

#328

RAOF said: gnome-shell is deliberately quite different. I'm trying to work out (and help others work out) if the flaws are "it's different to what I'm used to" or "there's something that I need to do that it does worse". We're all GNOME 2.0 power-users here - because gnome-shell has a quite different design I think we'll tend to think it's worse. In a similar way that Windows power-users find the transition to GNOME harder - we're very, *very* used to the way things work now, and when the shell doesn't support the same workflow as easily, we tend to consider it a flaw.

I certainly don't think gnome-shell is flawless; for example, from an implementation perspective I don't think having the shell as an in-process plugin for the desktop compositor is a good idea. I think some of the design ideas are good, and some are interesting, though. What we also have to bare in mind too is that we aren't going to get a taste of Gnome Shell in Ubuntu for another 11 months. To put it in the more comical/nostalgic way - that is nearly 2 years in Linux time. ;)

So the point is - don't make final judgments on something that will likely change radically in the meantime.

The move from Metacity -> Mutter is imminent. The move from Gnome-Panel -> ??? is still technically not defined yet. But then again - there appears to be no one else who is defining such a change, so one can assume people are generally happy with Gnome-Shell filling in that gap.

Starks said: RAOF, you're not doing a very good job of convincing us that gnome-shell is a good idea when you consider every flaw we point out to be a "feature".

In case you weren't aware of the distinction: http://www.globalnerdy.com/2007/12/04/bug-vs-feature/

#329

It's not a matter of comfort. It's a manner of practicality. If I need to press more buttons on the keyboard or do more things with my mouse with gnome-shell than I did before, that's a problem.

Also, I reject this claim.

In a similar way that Windows power-users find the transition to GNOME harder

Going from Windows to GNOME was easy as hell. It took me only an hour to get used to it.

#330

Roasted said: As somebody who works in a large business environment,

I also work in a large business environment, as well as supporting several business clients that I have migrated to Ubuntu Linux. The user testing I've done with those clients using Gnome-shell has almost uniformly been favourable, so I don't really share your bleak outlook. Most of the users I support who have been involved in the testing found it very easy to adapt to Gnome-shell and a sizeable majority have also expressed a preference for the principles behind Gnome-shell as well. It still needs work, but in the environment I support, it is already proving to be quite usable by most of my end-users.

#331

On a gaming related note:

When I was using gnome-shell the other day I wanted to see how gaming is currently under gnome-shell. Mostly to see how the performance would be or if it would just plain crash. So I started up a game in WINE. It worked fine, went as expected to fullscreen mode and even the performance was decent. So far, so boring.

Then I remembered something that has always bugged me about gaming under Linux in fullscreen mode, there nothing easy like Alt-Tab in Windows to minimize the game. So I got an idea and wondered if maybe the overlay mode would still work. And after pressing Super key, to my surprise it actually went to the overview mode.

It works smoothly. And if you move the game to it's own workspace, you can happily access other programms on the other workspaces and then switch back to the game. I tried it out a couple of times and never did it crash the shell or the game.

If intentional or not, this feature already makes the shell for my gaming related needs way more usefull than the current setup. I actually find this solution even more seamless and fluid than Alt-Tab in Windows.

#332

Starks said: Also, I reject this claim.

Going from Windows to GNOME was easy as hell. It took me only an hour to get used to it. Reject it if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that many users do have some difficulty getting used to Gnome after Windows. Not everyone adjust at the same pace and it is a mistake to think otherwise.

#333

qamelian, I remember you saying that a lot of your users liked the bigger, easier, to hit buttons of GNOME Shell. How do they like the more recent version with the tiny arrows?

#334

qamelian said: I also work in a large business environment, as well as supporting several business clients that I have migrated to Ubuntu Linux. The user testing I've done with those clients using Gnome-shell has almost uniformly been favourable, so I don't really share your bleak outlook. Most of the users I support who have been involved in the testing found it very easy to adapt to Gnome-shell and a sizeable majority have also expressed a preference for the principles behind Gnome-shell as well. It still needs work, but in the environment I support, it is already proving to be quite usable by most of my end-users.

I like Gnome Shell a lot. But I will say this till the day I die, requiring the overlay to work to do ANYTHING at all is so far beyond laughably retarded that I just can't fathom what they are thinking.

Great ideas, but it just... isn't all there yet...

#335

For those who don't like 'needing' to go to the overlay, there is a REALLY great compromise that I would suggest. Bare in mind, I've only been using gnome-shell part time, and even then, I've only used it for a couple of days.

Install cairo-dock.

It kicks the snot out of AWN and every other bar, it can be made to auto hide, and will allow you to maintain your current "Start Menu" until you either get over the need for one (which I haven't) or until gnome-shell is smoothed out a little.

As it sits, gnome-shell is actually really quite complete, IMHO, but just very very different. Adding a cairo-dock to it, in auto-hide mode with just the stuff you absolutely need, really smooths out some of the rough edges.

#336

just a heads up 2.28.1 is in the build system however it seems to have failed due to dependency problems.

Regardless soon people should have a newer version to test available directly from the repo.

#337

All-told.. I'm actually really enjoying gnome shell, it's a kind of breath of fresh air for me.

I just can't wait until they add the user created extensions subsystem in and maybe a "create your own extensions for dummies" webpage so I can really have a go at screwing it up!

#338

gspat said: and maybe a "create your own extensions for dummies" webpage so I can really have a go at screwing it up!

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Extensions

#339

It's not dumbed down enough for this dummy... and the --create-extensions thing isn't there yet.

#340

VeeDubb said: For those who don't like 'needing' to go to the overlay, there is a REALLY great compromise that I would suggest. Bare in mind, I've only been using gnome-shell part time, and even then, I've only used it for a couple of days.

Install cairo-dock.

It kicks the snot out of AWN and every other bar, it can be made to auto hide, and will allow you to maintain your current "Start Menu" until you either get over the need for one (which I haven't) or until gnome-shell is smoothed out a little.

As it sits, gnome-shell is actually really quite complete, IMHO, but just very very different. Adding a cairo-dock to it, in auto-hide mode with just the stuff you absolutely need, really smooths out some of the rough edges.

The only problem with Cairo Dock is it pretty much acts like it's in Alpha stage. I installed Cairo Dock on 3 different computers and had 3 different sets of problems. It may work nicely for you, but they have a long way to go to be really stable. The only dock I would recommend to anybody without thinking twice is Gnome-Do's Docky, since it's just simple and works nicely.

After using KDE for a while now, I'm liking the single panel setup they got going on, so I really don't see the need for a dock (for me) anymore.

I don't know, like I've said a few times, I plan to stick with KDE now that I've been exposed to it more, but I still want to see Gnome Shell succeed, and I feel like a few simple things can be done to make the entire interface that much better, but they seem to think the exact opposite. *shrug*

#341

When I run the gnome-shell-build-setup script it sais that ~/bin isn't in path. I've forgot how to add something to the path, last time i tried i removed everything in my path. How do I add bin properly? is it something like PATH=~/bin/:$PATH ?

A quite odd thing is that if I try to build the shell and I'm on wireless, it always fail at the second step. However, if I'm on cable it always succeeds to build the shell. How's that?

#342

Tompalaz said: When I run the gnome-shell-build-setup script it sais that ~/bin isn't in path. I've forgot how to add something to the path, last time i tried i removed everything in my path. How do I add bin properly?

is it something like PATH=~/bin/:$PATH ? Try: export PATH=$PATH:~/bin

#343

'[h2o] said: Try: export PATH=$PATH:~/bin

Thanks!

#344

had 3 different sets of problems

like ? you could contribute to the software by giving more details and a way to reproduce the bugs. It would be greatly appreciated !

#345

Roasted said: The only problem with Cairo Dock is it pretty much acts like it's in Alpha stage...

That is the really beautiful part about a linux desktop. Everything is configurable and customizable and mixable. I've even seen demo videos of people running gnome-shell on a KDE desktop, not that I'd recommend it.

The other thing you might try, would be screenlets. I've tried gDesklets many times over, and I personally find them to be ugly and to function poorly. Screenlets on the other hand, seem to be much better (for me) and can add back lots of functionality, including a window list.

#346

LiquidMeson said: I like where this (http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/BreadcrumbsEtc) is heading.

Have you tried that one?

When I tried merging the two gits gnome-shell breakes :(

#347

Colin Walters has been busy. Lot of changes in the past few days.

In thread news William Jon McCann was busy responding ot a lot of old posts. One old post was how it was 'awful enter to the expo mode each time that you want to use an application or change between open apps and files'. Then when McCann asked how it was, I piped in and so did three others. Then of course he had no response at all. Yep just plug up your ears and go lalalala when you get any bit of negative input, that sure is constructive.

#348

Merk42 said: Colin Walters has been busy. Lot of changes in the past few days.

In thread news William Jon McCann was busy responding ot a lot of old posts. One old post was how it was 'awful enter to the expo mode each time that you want to use an application or change between open apps and files'. Then when McCann asked how it was, I piped in and so did three others. Then of course he had no response at all. Yep just plug up your ears and go lalalala when you get any bit of negative input, that sure is constructive.

Maybe he doesn't check it that often, perhaps you should contact him another way.

#349

Mutiny32 said: Maybe he doesn't check it that often, perhaps you should contact him another way.

Within a span of like an hour or so he replied to A LOT of threads, so he was checking. Also why ask for more input if you're not going to check?

Not just him btw, no responses have happened since then from anyone working on GNOME Shell.

I changed the pictures in the first post to the most recent build. It seems to crash quite often though.

#350

Merk42 said: Within a span of like an hour or so he replied to A LOT of threads, so he was checking. Also why ask for more input if you're not going to check?

Not just him btw, no responses have happened since then from anyone working on GNOME Shell.

I changed the pictures in the first post to the most recent build. It seems to crash quite often though. I'd make a stink about lack of communication from them then. If they are planning on this to be the future of gnome, then they need to acknowledge input or they'll face user revolt once it's forced upon them.

Also, does anyone else have to run ``` ./gnome-shell --replace

#351

I'd make a stink (others have) and that just gets ignored too.

I just rebuilt GNOME Shelll, and I didn't have to run ./gnome-shell --replace twice. Are you building from source or using the package?

#352

btw, the jhbuild in the repos is fine. you don't need the jaunty or debian version.

#353

Starks said: btw, the jhbuild in the repos is fine. you don't need the jaunty or debian version.

Does this only pertain if you're running Lucid?

#354

Lucid only.

#355

Starks said: Lucid only.

Okay edited the OP to reflect that.

#356

The Lucid version should work with Karmic.

http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/jhbuild

#357

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/BreadcrumbsEtc

Is this still being developed? I really wish this was the choice for gnome-shell

How's it going? You guys should upload some screenies occasionally :)

#358

The debate finally sparked on the mailing list. There have been a lot of constructive (and not) opinions :)

#359

Hmm.. seems more deconstructive than constructive...

What most everyone seems to want is a method to switch to open applications without relying on keyboard shortcuts, or watching the screen flip around and re-orient themselves while waiting to produce the required mouse click. (my opinion)

Everyone seems to forget that a vast majority of new users (re: Bug # 1) will not use the keyboard for anything besides writing emails, IMs, letters or typing an address in the browser. Most windows users I help when clearing out malware, etc. don't even seem to know about ctrl-alt-del to get to the task manager.

A close friend who looks into trends has told me that touch will be the next big thing really taking off in about 6 - 12 months... read that as 17 - 19 inch screen with no keyboard connected. How do they plan to use alt-tab for that? Or, as per usual, do they just plan to ignore what comes and do their own thing without regard, then play catch up again later.

I've been working towards learning javascript so I can write some stuff to pass on, but between the learning curve and time constraints, it will probably be too late by the time I learn it. I've passed an idea and an issue I've had on to the mailing list, but they will probably be ignored.

#360

gspat said: A close friend who looks into trends has told me that touch will be the next big thing really taking off in about 6 - 12 months... read that as 17 - 19 inch screen with no keyboard connected. How do they plan to use alt-tab for that? Or, as per usual, do they just plan to ignore what comes and do their own thing without regard, then play catch up again later.

Touch in that manner has been shown to have more problems than benefits. The two main ones being that your finger/hand/arm is blocking your view and holding your arms out like that for extending periods of time causes fatigue.

There was a sort of take on it with either multitouch in mice or a large tablet, but not on the screen.

Also in your point there would still be a keyboard wouldn't there? Even if you touched directly onto the screen, how would you do things like chatting and word processing with no keyboard? On screen keyboard? Aside from that being an awful idea, it would still provide "Alt-Tab"

#361

If I understand you correctly, by fatiguing, you mean having to reach for the display (as in being in a more traditional location, like at the back of your desk or mounted on a wall).

The display he talks about for consumer level use are larger than standard handheld devices and are approx. the size of an opened up magazine or if larger, an opened newspaper that lays directly on your desk, coffe table etc and has no reason to be more fatiging than a standard keyboard as the display height would be no higher than a standard keyboard. A good analogy as I type this is to take my 22" LCD display and lay it flat on my computer desk in the spot I have my keyboard in right now.

Your hands do not get in the way if you subscribe to certain main design aspects:

1 - main controls for use of O/S are unobtrusive and placed along the LRS, RHS or bottom of the display area.

This is where gnome-shell immediately reminded me of what he was talking about with the overlay along the edge.

This makes for a much less fatiguing method of item/application selection as your hands are mostly at rest and for common use your index finger or thumb are used for initial selections. this is meant to make the initial selections as unobtrusive on the display as possible.

2 - Selections that result in other menu options should intelligently display themselves dependant on where they are on screen.

This is where I personally think the alt-tab approach fails, in that it should not be at the centre of the screen, but rather in the bottom corner and the arrow denoting expansion required to display multiple application windows should be pointing up and the resulting thumbnails be above the initial displayed items.

3 - Non changing or infrequently used items placed to the left or right of the top of the display.

I think at present the shell has the right idea on this as well

3 - On Screen keyboard always displays at the bottom centre of the screen.

4 - The upper centre of the display should be mainly used for informational display purposes only.

Now, having said this, it may seem untenable, but my friend has seen test units making use of this stuff. and he claims it is very easy to use.

The current thought among the designers is that the application gui designer will have to think out how to best make their application usable (from a GUI standpoint) on these devices, but that accepted norms for them will come, probably using design aspects from the O/S itself.

#362

I have to say it, for such a great idea this really sucks!

I love the way everyone has been so passionate about it so I thought I'll give it a go and see what happens. Firstly it won't install on Lucid from the repositories, but I understand this has had dependency problems as is to be expected in alpha testing. My desktop on Karmic installs but runs like a snail, the overlay works and the taskbar is there but everything else is plain black so the system is unusable. The icons in the top right are garbled.

Luckily my laptop with Karmic works a treat. I'm having a fair degree of culture shock, I miss my lower taskbar. However there are a few points I feel aren't going to go away, when accessing the overlay I noticed that the preferances and system settings are not present. If I use the find box then the utilities in these menus appear but I can't casually browse them. I suddenly realised I can't remember what is in the menu without looking at it and I was stuck. Also I'm instinctively using Alt+Tab and find that now it is no longer possible to switch between 2 of the open windows, say browser and chat window, because Alt+Tab blindly switches through the list, ignoring what you last had on screen.

One big show stopper for me is that it has a nasty habit of ignoring my mouse clicks in the taskbar and overlay, it took 10 attempts, clicking everywhere, using the windows button to close then open the overlay etc just to open this browser.

All that said it's looking great and I think given all the months left until this could possibly become the default it's bound to polish up nicely.

Can anyone tell me if the black screen thing is a known issue or should I report this?

#363

gspat said: If I understand you correctly, by fatiguing, you mean having to reach for the display (as in being in a more traditional location, like at the back of your desk or mounted on a wall).

The display he talks about for consumer level use are larger than standard handheld devices and are approx. the size of an opened up magazine or if larger, an opened newspaper that lays directly on your desk, coffe table etc and has no reason to be more fatiging than a standard keyboard as the display height would be no higher than a standard keyboard. A good analogy as I type this is to take my 22" LCD display and lay it flat on my computer desk in the spot I have my keyboard in right now.

Your hands do not get in the way if you subscribe to certain main design aspects:

1 - main controls for use of O/S are unobtrusive and placed along the LRS, RHS or bottom of the display area.

This is where gnome-shell immediately reminded me of what he was talking about with the overlay along the edge.

This makes for a much less fatiguing method of item/application selection as your hands are mostly at rest and for common use your index finger or thumb are used for initial selections. this is meant to make the initial selections as unobtrusive on the display as possible.

2 - Selections that result in other menu options should intelligently display themselves dependant on where they are on screen.

This is where I personally think the alt-tab approach fails, in that it should not be at the centre of the screen, but rather in the bottom corner and the arrow denoting expansion required to display multiple application windows should be pointing up and the resulting thumbnails be above the initial displayed items.

3 - Non changing or infrequently used items placed to the left or right of the top of the display.

I think at present the shell has the right idea on this as well

3 - On Screen keyboard always displays at the bottom centre of the screen.

4 - The upper centre of the display should be mainly used for informational display purposes only.

Now, having said this, it may seem untenable, but my friend has seen test units making use of this stuff. and he claims it is very easy to use.

The current thought among the designers is that the application gui designer will have to think out how to best make their application usable (from a GUI standpoint) on these devices, but that accepted norms for them will come, probably using design aspects from the O/S itself.

As much as this sounds nice, I can assure you a secretary that has to be typing most of the day will certainly suffer the consequences. People constantly typing need a firm suport for their wrists, or the consequences can be very negative.

Also, a computer laying flat in a table is awful for your neck. This may not seem very relevant at first, but after years of work, it can derive into invalidating conditions...If you put it in an angle, then your wrists will suffer.

In the end, I think the keyboard is an awesome tool, that is often looked upon.

#364

I would file a bug about that black screen.

#365

I think you might be using an old version (is it the one from the karmic repo), since in the current version alt-tab orders your applications properly, so you can easily switch back and forth between two apps you're using.

Also, the current shell is relatively stable (at least for me) and very rarely becomes unresponsive for some seconds.

In any case, try to take this discussion to the gnome-shell thread.

#366

Thanks guys

#367

orlox said: I think you might be using an old version (is it the one from the karmic repo), since in the current version alt-tab orders your applications properly, so you can easily switch back and forth between two apps you're using.

Also, the current shell is relatively stable (at least for me) and very rarely becomes unresponsive for some seconds.

In any case, try to take this discussion to the gnome-shell thread.

Thinking about what you've said I think I'll just hold tight until I can get the version in the Lucid repositories working. Not much point in fault finding an old version is there? I've still got it loading on startup though, I want to see how much it grows on me.

#368

macroshaft said: Not much point in fault finding an old version is there?

Of course not. Just wanted to mention that your experience could be much better by using a more recent build.

#369

I can attest to what orlox is saying . Touch screens sound like such a neat and "gee whiz" idea but I do believe that they will prove to be impractical for day to day use . I just the other day had a chance to try out a desktop running windows 7 with a touch screen and very soon found myself reaching for the mouse . With the display upright as a normal monitor it is horribly positioned for using an on screen keyboard and laying flat is a poor position for prolonged reading even without the obstruction of the hands poised over said onscreen keyboard . and I believe that selecting a single line of type or a few words to highlight would be difficult if not impossible at any reasonable font size , a fingertip would cover more than one line or letter . Also since selecting requires 2 gestures it would require 2 hands , 2 fingers on one hand would not do .Touch screens may very well become the favored paradigm for certain niche applications , the Iphone comes to mind, but I do not think they will become the mainstream way of doing things .

#370

I build the current git & then use cairo-dock in the "normal" bottom-centre area---I came from the Mac-verse (was a beta for OSX in 1999 & 2000) & a bottom-centre dock falls directly to use for me......I have been getting use to ALT-TAB for switching apps--but I still use my mouse more that my keyboard (again OSX-ish).

Still, I have found the shell growing on me daily & the fact that I can switch into a full-screen OpenGL game without any fuss is a winner in my eyes (I still do UT2004 nightly)--so it will be my desktop of choice as soon as more bugs are wrung out & the edges are polished a bit more. It will help to get the code in a stable state so the addon hackers can play with it---It will be very interesting to see where it is a year from when it is "released".....should be great fun :)

macroshaft said: Thinking about what you've said I think I'll just hold tight until I can get the version in the Lucid repositories working. Not much point in fault finding an old version is there? I've still got it loading on startup though, I want to see how much it grows on me.

#371

Hey - has any one any problems running the latest gnome-shell - just had a karmic update plus gnome-shell in the > http://ppa.launchpad.net/ricotz/testing/ubuntu karmic mainrepository and I can no longer run the GS. I am getting an error

JS ERROR: !!! message = 'Error invoking Gio.enumerate_children: No such file or directory'

amongst others.

#372

yikes! I got it too!

fired a quick email to him, hopefully it's something simple!

#373

Just a note for people building the shell--the location of "gnome-shell-build-setup.sh" has changed:``` curl -O "http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/plain/tools/build/gnome-shell-build-setup.sh"

#374

Quick current shot of my desktop.......

#375

is that a new version of conky or what on the right? Looks neat.

#376

I don't appreciate Gnome-Shell, Docky, or Cairo-Dock.

None can replace the window list of gnome-panel.

#377

ranch hand said: is that a new version of conky or what on the right? Looks neat.

It's something that came far before them---Gkrellm. It has been around for more than 10 years now & is a very stable stacked monitor with good config options. I've been using it since 2002.......I've collected every theme known for it & made a fair number of them myself.......it's old-school....but it just.....works :)

#378

Starks said: I don't appreciate Gnome-Shell, Docky, or Cairo-Dock.

None can replace the window list of gnome-panel.

To each his own---I get the ONLY part of OSX that I missed (The Dock) & add it to what is becoming a "normal" session for me--It almost feels strange to go back to a Gnome2 session......

I remember when Gnome2 was new back in 2001/2 & I heard the same resistance to it......most people resisted changing their stable Gnome1 desktop because Gnome2 was "too different".......Also note in the timeline about the "conflict" around 2.6......

Now the wheel has turned. Take a look at History: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnome_desktop

#379

autocrosser said: It's something that came far before them---Gkrellm. It has been around for more than 10 years now & is a very stable stacked monitor with good config options. I've been using it since 2002.......I've collected every theme known for it & made a fair number of them myself.......it's old-school....but it just.....works :)

I knew I had seen it before.

Geeze, I have used that myself. Pretty nice. I think it is a pain to set up, but once you have it it is solid as a rock.

#380

Some Gnome-Shocky Concepts, Shell + Docky http://meson.us/gallery/GnomeShellDraft.jpg

Edit: I'll work on cleaning it up :p I know its pretty messy. Thanks for the tips.

#381

LiquidMeson said: Some Gnome-Shocky Concepts, Shell + Docky

http://meson.us/gallery/GnomeShellDraft.jpg

I think you should organize it a little, I can't understand half of it :P The light pencil doesn't help either =/

#382

Completly Awsome.

:P

If you're presenting double-check your spelling. One or two misspellings is what is remembered most, not the content.

Merely, Programmer, Visibility, Controlled, Separation, Instead, Dragged, Disappear, Necessary, Offline, Thoroughly.

<- teacher

#383

I really, really want Docky and Gnome-do to be a part of the default Gnome 3.0 desktop! Come on Gnome Foundation, it makes sense!!!!

#384

NCLI said: I really, really want Docky and Gnome-do to be a part of the default Gnome 3.0 desktop! Come on Gnome Foundation, it makes sense!!!!

It has been suggested that we propose for GNOME inclusion. It would be great, except that we'd need to use the GNOME infrastructure - git & bugzilla - and all of the developers much prefer bzr & launchpad.

#385

RAOF said: It has been suggested that we propose for GNOME inclusion. It would be great, except that we'd need to use the GNOME infrastructure - git & bugzilla - and all of the developers much prefer bzr & launchpad.

Guess its good thing that they're both being fused. https://launchpad.net/bugzilla-launchpad https://launchpad.net/bzr-git Not quite there yet tho.

Gnome(Do & Shell) http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/Do-ifyingGnomeShell

#386

I'd love to see the functionality of Gnome-do (not docky) incorporated by the GS. The first thing I would do is to write a plugin which lets me specify where or what to search by prefixing a single character (opera has that if i remember correctly). eg.: "l math.txt" -> search for "math.txt" in local files "g jean rollin" -> search for "jean rollin" in google "w cucumber" -> search for "cucumber" in wikipedia "firefox" -> default to applications (and if not found, local files)

I can't imagine a way of being faster than that...

best regards,

#387

laborg said: I'd love to see the functionality of Gnome-do (not docky) incorporated by the GS. The first thing I would do is to write a plugin which lets me specify where or what to search by prefixing a single character (opera has that if i remember correctly).

eg.: "l math.txt" -> search for "math.txt" in local files "g jean rollin" -> search for "jean rollin" in google "w cucumber" -> search for "cucumber" in wikipedia "firefox" -> default to applications (and if not found, local files)

I can't imagine a way of being faster than that...

best regards, I asked them about this "keyword" functionality, but they replied it's against gnome-do internal logic. So, no clear way to do this, only dirty hacks. In my opinion, docky and gnome-do should not be in the default install until they improve its performance with nvidia proprietary drivers (other docks have no problems, so it's docky-do problem)

#388

I agree that the implementation of gnome-do isn't perfect (mono, the 100% cpu-bug...) and that docky as a dock solution wouldn't fit into the scene, but the main features of gnome-do would definitely improve the GS experience.

#389

Hi,

I build the gnome shell from source but i am not able to start it. I am getting following error.

sudhir@sudhir-laptop:~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src$ ./gnome-shell --replace JS ERROR: !!! Exception was: Error: Requiring Clutter, version none: Typelib file for namespace 'PangoCairo', version '1.0' not found JS ERROR: !!! lineNumber = '0' JS ERROR: !!! fileName = 'gjs_throw' JS ERROR: !!! stack = 'Error("Requiring Clutter, version none: Typelib file for namespace 'PangoCairo', version '1.0' not found")@:0 ("Requiring Clutter, version none: Typelib file for namespace 'PangoCairo', version '1.0' not found")@gjs_throw:0 @/home/sudhir/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/js/ui/main.js:3 ' JS ERROR: !!! message = 'Requiring Clutter, version none: Typelib file for namespace 'PangoCairo', version '1.0' not found' JS ERROR: !!! Exception was: Error: Requiring Clutter, version none: Typelib file for namespace 'PangoCairo', version '1.0' not found JS ERROR: !!! lineNumber = '0' JS ERROR: !!! fileName = 'gjs_throw' JS ERROR: !!! stack = 'Error("Requiring Clutter, version none: Typelib file for namespace 'PangoCairo', version '1.0' not found")@:0 ("Requiring Clutter, version none: Typelib file for namespace 'PangoCairo', version '1.0' not found")@gjs_throw:0 @/home/sudhir/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/js/ui/main.js:3 Error("Chained exception")@:0 ("Chained exception")@gjs_throw:0 @<main>:1 ' JS ERROR: !!! message = 'Requiring Clutter, version none: Typelib file for namespace 'PangoCairo', version '1.0' not found' Window manager warning: Log level 32: Execution of main.js threw exception: Error: Requiring Clutter, version none: Typelib file for namespace 'PangoCairo', version '1.0' not found sudhir@sudhir-laptop:~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src$ Cannot register the panel shell: there is already one running.

Thank you.

#390

I also get the same errors about PangoCairo when I try to launch gnome-shell after building it from source. Hopefully someone knows how to get around this.

#391

laborg said: I'd love to see the functionality of Gnome-do (not docky) incorporated by the GS. The first thing I would do is to write a plugin which lets me specify where or what to search by prefixing a single character (opera has that if i remember correctly).

eg.: "l math.txt" -> search for "math.txt" in local files "g jean rollin" -> search for "jean rollin" in google "w cucumber" -> search for "cucumber" in wikipedia "firefox" -> default to applications (and if not found, local files)

I can't imagine a way of being faster than that...

best regards,

Just install the old mini-commander applet in the panel and you'll get all that and more... If you can't find it I can put it online somewhere as I have made a stand-alone package with just mini-commander...

#392

soham_1207 said: Hi,

I build the gnome shell from source but i am not able to start it. I am getting following error.

Thank you. Do you have the webkit ppa installed? I believe their version of gir(gobject introspection repository) is breaking this.

#393

tehkain said: Do you have the webkit ppa installed? I believe their version of gir(gobject introspection repository) is breaking this.

I get the same problem with pangocairo when building gnome-shell, and I don't have the webkit ppa installed. I will check around other ppas I have installed though to see if they contain any relevent files.

#394

I've eliminated gnome-panel from my Gnome setup and currently using Docky exclusively. It has it's faults though, sometimes I need to load up the panel for certain actions. But Gnome shell looks pretty interesting too.

#395

I still can't get used to GNOME Shell. I really like how it deals with multiple workspaces (and that part needed some work anyway)... But I need a faster way to switch applications. In combination with a dock it's pretty good though!

I'm also still worried about the uh, alpha-ness of the software. It's not pretty, it's not feature-complete by far yet (though I'm sure that will change) and I don't like how it kicks out Compiz. :(

#396

Gnome Shell is not for Lucid. The simple fact that default Lucid repositories will not let you install gnome-shell because the dependencies have not been updated properly (gobject-introspect -> gir rename) testifies to that.

At best it is for Lucid +1 since Gnome Shell is not to be default in Gnome itself until the ~ September 2010 release at the earliest.

#397

I think we all know Gnome-Shell isn't for Lucid, but I mean are you really surprised that people who are testing an alpha OS also want to test what the future of Gnome is supposed to look like?

The thing for me is Gnome-Shell is the future of gnome it seems, and not that distant of a future. September 2010 is less than a year out. Plus, I've heard a lot of mixed opinions on Gnome-Shell, so if it turns out it's not for me I'd like a bit of time to test out xfce and KDE and see how I like them.

#398

Don't for get Lxde.

From one gnome user to another, pcmanfm is the next best thing to nautilus. Thunar, in Xfce is not to bad. Why anyone puts up with the fm (any of them) under KDE is beyond me.

#399

FatalChaos said: I think we all know Gnome-Shell isn't for Lucid, but I mean are you really surprised that people who are testing an alpha OS also want to test what the future of Gnome is supposed to look like?

The thing for me is Gnome-Shell is the future of gnome it seems, and not that distant of a future. September 2010 is less than a year out. Plus, I've heard a lot of mixed opinions on Gnome-Shell, so if it turns out it's not for me I'd like a bit of time to test out xfce and KDE and see how I like them.

That's what I did. Gnome user of 5 years here. Checked out Gnome-Shell, decided I wanted nothing to do with it, checked out KDE, haven't looked back yet. I found giving KDE a solid shot really shown me what it can do, and I completely understand why some users are as KDE hardcore as they are.

ranch hand said: Don't for get Lxde.

From one gnome user to another, pcmanfm is the next best thing to nautilus. Thunar, in Xfce is not to bad. Why anyone puts up with the fm (any of them) under KDE is beyond me.

How extensively have you used KDE? As I mentioned above, I've used Gnome for 5 years, but I've only used KDE for only 2 months. In my time using KDE I've learned a truckload about it, and I find it (and Dolphin) to be extremely comparable (do I dare say, better?) than other window managers and desktop environments.

At the end of the day, none of that matters, though. You gotta use what works for you. My opinion above is just what's worked best for me. Not trying to stir up a KDE vs Gnome talk here, since this is about Gnome Shell, but I think it should be known that KDE is an exceptional alternative choice.

Ahh, choice. The power of Linux. :guitar:

#400

Well--I've been using gnome-Shell from "almost" the first...Got involved with it during late Jaunty/Early Karmic testing & have had some good talks with developers...I use it for my daily in Lucid---git builds of the current source. I use Cairo-Dock with it to make up for the rough edges & it all works very well (for me).

So I would guess that it's all in what you like---Yes, Linux is all about choices......

#401

The g-s developers really need to learn to release tarballs more often. 2.28 is ancient and if they insist on forcing this upon up in the near future they should at least make it easy to test. I am not building from git that is just beneath me to ask me to do that to help them test their crap.

#402

Me being something of a G-Shell hater, I thought I'd give it a fair shake and try it out. So far, all I ended up with were build errors. Hrmph.

Not a good impression.

#403

I presume you already know this as it has been posted in this very thread, but repeating does not hurt: https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/testing

Relatively current builds of gs there.

#404

aethralis said: I presume you already know this as it has been posted in this very thread, but repeating does not hurt: https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/testing

Relatively current builds of gs there.

No builds for Lucid, also the PPA mixes packages for one purpose wth another (g-s and docky in one ppa), this is bound to lead to conflicts.

#405

Just tried Gnome-shell and i really like it. I have following problems/suggestions.

  1. How can i browse all my applications? finding is not always preferred. When i click more only some of the applications are shown not all.
  1. I am not able to see/change what applications are open and running quickly?
  1. I don't see enough customization option.
  1. What happened to Gnome-do and Docky?
  1. As compiz is not running, interchanging open applications is really boring.

Thanks.

#406

soham_1207 said: Just tried Gnome-shell and i really like it. I have following problems/suggestions.

  1. How can i browse all my applications? finding is not always preferred. When i click more only some of the applications are shown not all.
  1. I am not able to see/change what applications are open and running quickly?
  1. I don't see enough customization option.
  1. What happened to Gnome-do and Docky?
  1. As compiz is not running, interchanging open applications is really boring.

Thanks.

Read the first post of the thread it may answer a lot of questions. What are you running? Jaunty, Karmic, Lucid? How did you install it? Package or Source? I'll try to answer your questions here [*]All of your applications should be shown in a scrollable list when you click applications

  • You can't, this is a subject of heated discussion. As of right now you need to go to the overlay or use alt-tab
  • Currently there is far less customizing possible in GNOME Shell
  • Gnome-do and Docky were never part of the default GNOME desktop, as such they aren't included in GNOME Shell
  • Well hopefully there will be less boring animations with Mutter
#407

gnomeuser said: No builds for Lucid, also the PPA mixes packages for one purpose wth another (g-s and docky in one ppa), this is bound to lead to conflicts.

Karmic builds work (or are supposed to used to), but you didn't bother to try them. Also, you can hold back the bleeding-edge Docky packages if you don't want them.

deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ricotz/testing/ubuntu karmic main

Furthermore, the git builder is ridiculously easy to use even a grandmother could do it.

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell

#408

Starks said: Karmic builds work (or are supposed to used to), but you didn't bother to try them. Also, you can hold back the bleeding-edge Docky packages if you don't want them.

deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ricotz/testing/ubuntu karmic main

Furthermore, the git builder is ridiculously easy to use even a grandmother could do it.

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell

+1.

I tried Gnome-shell using above ppa but couldn't find docky. And yes building from the source is very easy. BTW why is jhbuild not available in Karmic.

A good tutorial.

http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2009/11/02/install-gnome-shell-on-ubuntu-9-10-karmic-koala/

I like the overall design of gnome-shell but they should add more freedom via customization. After all its my desktop.

SK.

#409

Thanks for the PPA link, it works on Karmic. I'm really impressed with this. It's not finished, but I like the flow - I think I work better and faster with this.

#410

For Your Viewing Pleasure. http://meson.us/x/GnomeShell/ *note new xcf is missing a lot of stuff from the original draft, this makes me sad but I'm to lazy to add it now. *glances at watch* I'm kinda skeptical the dock will make it in :*(, however if shell looks similar to this it might be hard to say no. :D Firefox also looks ugly atm :(

Background Picture is by Pixel F**Kers not sure where exactly I got it...its also in the xcf clean. *I can remove it if necessary or if there is a link it would be nice to know. I also have more of the backgrounds like it if people like :D

ps. Some stuff not noted in pictures, dragging window to top maximizes, and there is no minimize, rather closing the application is like android and its kept idle waiting for you unless you forget about it.

Top right Icon also indicates whether signed into some on-line chat application. Orange away, clear off-line, Grey invisible ect...

Some Music while your looking... http://meson.us/video/2008Dec13th.ogg

#411

Wow O.O

Is that the official vision for the shell? With a few modifications,this looks great! I like seeing that they've taken a note from UNE by removing the titlebar for maximized windows.

EDIT: NVM, it's just your vision. Damn -_-

#412

Gnome-shell is a big disappointment, it's UI is terrible and confused. But, i think that this could be a beneficial thing to Ubuntu, maybe it should just switch to KDE ! :)

#413

benjamimgois said: Gnome-shell is a big disappointment, it's UI is terrible and confused. But, i think that this could be a beneficial thing to Ubuntu, maybe it should just switch to KDE ! :)

It's not disappointing to me. I'm finally enjoying using Gnome again for the first time since before 2.0 was released. Gnome-shell has been my primary desktop for a while and I vastly prefer it to "old Gnome".

#414

qamelian said: You nay-sayers can gripe if you like, but I still think Gnome-shell is a huge step forward in usability over the existing Gnome UI. I've been using Gnome-shell as my default UI for a couple of months now, and I find it much nicer to work with than any of the existing major desktops on *nix. I can't wait to see where they take the final product.

I have tried gnome-sheell exactly two times so far.

First time: didn't work. At all.

Second time: worked for two whole seconds (yay!), then froze my desktop. I finally managed to come up with a terminal window and shut down the computer.

Just another layer of completely useless eye-candy that gets in your way. Sure, it might look "cool" and "neat" and "radical" much like Compiz effects - which also are mostly completely useless waste of resources and just get in your way all the time - and you can impress the Medieval village folks with it for five minutes, but that's pretty much it.

When and if this becomes the standard for Gnome desktop, it's time to switch to something more useful.

The whole gnome-shell thing just has a "catastrophic error" written all over it, from the user perspective. At least at this point. Maybe the future releases are better and more functional, but I still have a bad feeling about this. I like my desktop to be simple, swift and efficient for me. I don't need "cool" but useless effects to slow everything down.

#415

has anyone an idea how to install gnome-shell at the moment? The lucid package is broken, installing via jhbuild also fails for about 2 weeks now - any suggestions?

#416

godhika said: has anyone an idea how to install gnome-shell at the moment? The lucid package is broken, installing via jhbuild also fails for about 2 weeks now - any suggestions?

You could do a build from source---I've not had any problems with that for quite a while--working very well here......Using the Shell as my daily desktop.

#417

godhika said: has anyone an idea how to install gnome-shell at the moment? The lucid package is broken, installing via jhbuild also fails for about 2 weeks now - any suggestions?

I don't think that any of the methods - Ubuntu repository, aforementioned ppa or building from source code is working in Lucid.

benjamimgois said: Gnome-shell is a big disappointment, it's UI is terrible and confused. But, i think that this could be a beneficial thing to Ubuntu, maybe it should just switch to KDE ! :)

What is confusing to you? Developers would like to know what is confusing so that they can work on it. Actually i find Gnome-shell very aesthetic. You just move your mouse to 'Activity area and you get Applications (commonly used and all), recent document and places.

I would love to have a different top panel. All the open windows should be shown there like windows list. Or better we can have global menu at top and some other panel like AWN or Docky at bottom.

Are any of you guys running AWN?

Thanks.

#418

qamelian said: It's not disappointing to me. I'm finally enjoying using Gnome again for the first time since before 2.0 was released. Gnome-shell has been my primary desktop for a while and I vastly prefer it to "old Gnome".

I know you've been using it for a while (and also that you've been testing it with other people), so I wanted to ask you: how do you feel about switching applications? Do you use a dock, or Alt+Tab, or the top left corner?

That's the biggest annoyance for me. Do you recommend using it for a while to get used to it? :)

#419

Schendje said: I know you've been using it for a while (and also that you've been testing it with other people), so I wanted to ask you: how do you feel about switching applications? Do you use a dock, or Alt+Tab, or the top left corner?

That's the biggest annoyance for me. Do you recommend using it for a while to get used to it? :)

It is indeed an annoyance for me too. I have tried AWN but for some reason its not working properly. The best possible way is to use your mouse move it to activity area and you get preview of all open tabs or you could always use Alt+Tab.

#420

I find the mouse and keyboard almost incompatible with one another. If I stick to keyboard shortcuts etc. I can be quite efficient (thank you spell check!). Or if I use the mouse for as much as possible, there is consistency but of course you always have to move your hands back to the keyboard.

The track-ball mice are quite good because your hand doesn't have to find a 'new place' every time it returns to the device.

If there were keyboard shortcuts for everything in Gnome Shell I think it would be great, and it might even make docky redundant. The application filter is half-way there already.

#421

I just tried buiding in a fresh install (with updates) of Lucid and I get errors as well,

I did notice that GNOME changed the url in the "curl -O" step so I've changed it.

#422

jarlath said: I find the mouse and keyboard almost incompatible with one another. If I stick to keyboard shortcuts etc. I can be quite efficient (thank you spell check!). Or if I use the mouse for as much as possible, there is consistency but of course you always have to move your hands back to the keyboard.

The track-ball mice are quite good because your hand doesn't have to find a 'new place' every time it returns to the device.

If there were keyboard shortcuts for everything in Gnome Shell I think it would be great, and it might even make docky redundant. The application filter is half-way there already.

True. I think there is a huge number of features missing in Gnome-shell. Right now Gnome shell is just like a tweak without any customization options. [IF] Inclusion of Gnome-shell in Ubuntu any soon will cause a lot of brouhaha.

#423

madmax75 said: Just another layer of completely useless eye-candy that gets in your way. Sure, it might look "cool" and "neat" and "radical" much like Compiz effects - which also are mostly completely useless waste of resources and just get in your way all the time - and you can impress the Medieval village folks with it for five minutes, but that's pretty much it.

I'm sorry but if you really believe this, then I have a hard time believing you tried it at all. I can't think of a single piece of "eye candy" in Gnome-shell that doesn't in some way enhance usability for me.

When and if this becomes the standard for Gnome desktop, it's time to switch to something more useful.

If it doesn't work for you, then by all means, you are free to change to an environment that works better for you. I can't think of one right now that works better for me than Gnome-shell. To each his own.

The whole gnome-shell thing just has a "catastrophic error" written all over it, from the user perspective. At least at this point. Maybe the future releases are better and more functional, but I still have a bad feeling about this. I like my desktop to be simple, swift and efficient for me. I don't need "cool" but useless effects to slow everything down.

Believe what you like. I've done usability studies with my clients that say you are wrong.

#424

Schendje said: I know you've been using it for a while (and also that you've been testing it with other people), so I wanted to ask you: how do you feel about switching applications? Do you use a dock, or Alt+Tab, or the top left corner?

That's the biggest annoyance for me. Do you recommend using it for a while to get used to it? :)

I never use a dock. Although I try each of the popular docks from time to time, I find them more of a hindrance than anything else. I use Alt-Tab to switch between apps, much the same way I did on the "old" Gnome desktop. If I have many applications open across a number of workspaces, I use the keyboard shortcut to invoke the Activities menu / overlay. I seldom use the mouse unless I have very specific need of it, as most apps I use on a regular basis as just as easy or easier to operate using the keyboard and manipulating the mouse only slows me down.

And yes, it did take me a little time to get used to it and begin to like it. I did need to adjust some of my work habits when I started using Gnome-shell, but now I realize that the habits I had to change were bad habits anyway. I find the Gnome-shell environment to be much more productive for me.

#425

Ineresting, I for one prefer to primarily use the mouse and use the keyboard only when I must.

The thing I missed the most in gnome-shell was the applications menu for browsing through the installed applications. I guess that can be implemented eventually with a dock menu applet.

I don't think most people would welcome the keyboard focused approach, but anyway there is a long road ahead and plenty can still be implemented.

#426

Merk42 said: I just tried buiding in a fresh install (with updates) of Lucid and I get errors as well,

I did notice that GNOME changed the url in the "curl -O" step so I've changed it. which url, where? could you give me some instructions, please?

#427

waspbr said: Ineresting, I for one prefer to primarily use the mouse and use the keyboard only when I must.

The thing I missed the most in gnome-shell was the applications menu for browsing through the installed applications. I guess that can be implemented eventually with a dock menu applet.

I don't think most people would welcome the keyboard focused approach, but anyway there is a long road ahead and plenty can still be implemented. There is a button on the Activities menu below the most used apps that expands the view and allows you to browse all your installed apps, similar to the Applications menu. It isn't gone..it's just handled in a somewhat different way.

#428

I've now been exclusively using gnome-shell on both my laptops (a 17" with nvidia graphics , and a 10" intel gma netbook). (FRom the ricotz ppa)

I like the ability to launch apps in a manner similar to gnome-do by pressing Super and typing, I also like that the same button provides exposé-like functionality. To me, it overall seems more ready for use than compiz ever was. Also, it finally removes one of the (IMO) worst things about the windowsXP/linux desktop, the taskbar.

With gnome-shell I mostly don't use multiple desktops (just sometimes) and I basically do not use minimize. The exposé functionality works great, imo.

Some notable flaws:

  • The panel at the top can get a bit empty, maybe they should have some kind of applets to add to all the empty space in the middle? (e.g. CPU usage and so on). Another idea would be to switch to a mac-style menu bar for GNOME3 and put it there (between Activities and a right-aligned clock).
  • The search feature is not as good as gnome-do
#429

godhika said: which url, where? could you give me some instructions, please?

see post #374 this thread , but that version still throws the pango-cairo error . Has anyone figured that out yet ?

#430

qamelian said: I'm sorry but if you really believe this, then I have a hard time believing you tried it at all. I can't think of a single piece of "eye candy" in Gnome-shell that doesn't in some way enhance usability for me.

While I do believe the vast majority of the compiz effects are strictly for eye candy, the whole realm of compiz in itself does enhance the desktop usability experience, and a good number of compiz features do indeed make for better efficiency on the desktop if you use them right.

If it doesn't work for you, then by all means, you are free to change to an environment that works better for you. I can't think of one right now that works better for me than Gnome-shell. To each his own.

That's the beauty of Linux, and something I am very thankful we have. I have used Gnome-Shell extensively. I even showed a couple of my hardcore Linux-loving friends it. All the while, I kept my mouth shut because I didn't want to influence any biased opinions of myself on them. Each of them were very "meh" over it. I got good reactions with it right away because oh yeah the overlay is neato and look at the workspaces yeah that's great. But the overall practicality level of Gnome-Shell in an actual business environment isn't really adding up, to be completely blunt.

Last year, if my boss came to me and said hey look let's deploy a Linux lab at one of the schools, I would have probably chosen Ubuntu. After seeing Gnome-Shell and realizing this is the future of Gnome, I would have went for KDE. Being that Kubuntu isn't "all there" with KDE (in my opinion when compared to other KDE distros), my current answer would be on deploying either openSuSE or Mandriva 2010.

I just feel like Gnome-Shell is too focused on being simple that they actually took away some practical levels that the Gnome desktop was popular for. Do I really have to activate the overlay every time I want to open a file, folder, or application? Does that button to expand the menu for "more" applications really have to be that small? In fact, I even signed up to the mailing list and contacted the developers about it, stating that I believe the "more" button should be enlarged to enhance usability. Their answer? They actually decided to make it smaller. *sigh*

Gnome-Shell has given me the opportunity, reason, and justification to look for something else to better suit my needs. I have found KDE to be exceptional with its stability and ease of use they have deployed. They've come a long way from the 4.0 release, and it's worth noting.

Believe what you like. I've done usability studies with my clients that say you are wrong.

Like you said, to each his own. There's nothing wrong whatsoever about somebody liking or disliking Gnome-Shell. Every desktop environment will have its ups and downs, pros and cons, etc.

At the end of the day, none of this really matters. We're all using Linux. Whether it's a debian distro or rpm distro or kde or lxde or gnome, it just doesn't matter. I.E. - we're all in a bar. You might like guinness. I may hate it. But you're drinking what you're drinking, I'm drinking what I'm drinking, and we're all having a good time. :popcorn:

#431

I think a lot of the reason why people don't like gnome-shell right now is that it isn't exactly how they want to use it right now. Until it reaches that level of maturity where people can really customize it to be the system that they want, it won't reach all the audiences it probably will eventually get. Gnome-shell changes the game irreversibly and doesn't give you a chance to go halfway back, because its a shell AND a window manager.

Compiz got it right with its plugins, each of which being separate, individually usable, and completely configurable without going into too much trouble. It doesn't really force anything on you at all. You can't really hate compiz, you can hate its defaults, you can hate individual plugins, but as a base, anything you can really hate is probably a bug.

Its an all or nothing game with gnome-shell. You can't only like parts of it -- its the whole thing or nothing. I, for example, like the overlay and how it keeps my most used apps most accessible and how it lets me see my other workspaces easily at the same time. What I don't like about that system is that it adds extra animations when I might just want to open an application. It goes so out of its way not to obscure your desktop, while moving and scaling your windows to all be seen. I don't really want that.

Gnome-shell's overlay is a one-stop shop for everything you can really do with it. That might be putting too much functionality in one place -- I might want a specialty store somewhere. They're talking about making nautilus for example do less and be just a file manager for gnome 3. KDE4 looks nicer (because of all qt4 and good theme engines), does more, but it doesn't really change the game. Gnome3 is more about changing the game. At most, I heard of people not liking KDE4 because of instability, and because of some apps changing and not having everything that they used to, like Amarok2. The rest of Gnome3 stuff, like deprecating a bunch of things and moving things away, breaking compatibility: that's stuff I can completely agree with. Gnome-shell is another thing, and I refuse to make any complete judgment of it until its officially released, maybe even waiting for the second official release.

#432

"At the end of the day, none of this really matters. We're all using Linux."

While this may be true for those on the forum, I would really like to see Gnu/Linux reach a much larger crowd, as in becoming the majority. Ubuntu I feel has a very strong current going for it, but if the discussions going on in the forums are any proof I feel this could put a damper on things.

My main Pc (Amd) dual boots 7 and Ubuntu, while my laptop is typically Ubuntu Dev/stable (Intel hardware). I love Linux for its core and Ubuntu for its stability and ease of use, but I still very much prefer the w7 interface.

If shell is to move forward it needs to feel clean and light (software wise this is true, but not in appearance). w7 has done a great job of this. The operating system is becoming less about the features and more about the artwork as all that becomes really necessary is the Internet. Gnome-shell cannot ignore the interfaces of Firefox or Chrome as these are the interfaces the new generation is growing up using. If that includes a dock, then so be-it. In general people would rather not use computers unless for entertainment, and the fact that gnome-shell has a clock in the middle of the task bar is a sign of mixed priorities.

Shell may be better at keeping the user organized, but people don't switch computers or buy a new one so they can be more organized. Typically.

This is also becoming true for businesses as well, as things become more decentralized with the help and ease of communication methods. Communication! should be key followed by ease of use, customization, and beauty. Just look at Google it is clean and very simple (like gnome-do) yet allows for a multitude of things. It doesn't tell you how to organize, it just makes it easier to get things done. Of course this is not to say the shell concept is a bad idea, just that gnome's focus is in the wrong direction.

Business is what made Microsoft popular Beauty, Apple Communication, Linux.

If people wanted efficiency they'd buy a solar powered digital watch like my'n with a stop watch and all the extra stuff, but most have classy slick watches or maybe one with Micky mouse on it. Most kids (here in silicon valley anyway) don't even have watches, just cell phones. They need to know the time so they can get to school, but once school is out decisions and activities are carried out by calling someone or text-ing them, mostly with only a relative discrepancy for time. It isn't organization that matters so much as communication and personality.

#433

LiquidMeson said: "At the end of the day, none of this really matters. We're all using Linux."

While this may be true for those on the forum, I would really like to see Gnu/Linux reach a much larger crowd, as in becoming the majority. Ubuntu I feel has a very strong current going for it, but if the discussions going on in the forums are any proof I feel this could put a damper on things.

My main Pc (Amd) dual boots 7 and Ubuntu, while my laptop is typically Ubuntu Dev/stable (Intel hardware). I love Linux for its core and Ubuntu for its stability and ease of use, but I still very much prefer the w7 interface.

If shell is to move forward it needs to feel clean and light (software wise this is true, but not in appearance). w7 has done a great job of this. The operating system is becoming less about the features and more about the artwork as all that becomes really necessary is the Internet. Gnome-shell cannot ignore the interfaces of Firefox or Chrome as these are the interfaces the new generation is growing up using. If that includes a dock, then so be-it. In general people would rather not use computers unless for entertainment, and the fact that gnome-shell has a clock in the middle of the task bar is a sign of mixed priorities.

Shell may be better at keeping the user organized, but people don't switch computers or buy a new one so they can be more organized. Typically.

+1 , i agree with you completely. But i still think that KDE4 is doing a much better job, and at least for me, so much ahead gnome shell and Zeit!@##@...

#434

benjamimgois said: +1 , i agree with you completely. But i still think that KDE4 is doing a much better job, and at least for me, so much ahead gnome shell and Zeit!@##@...

It's all really subjective. Personally, I can't stand KDE 4.3, in part because it literally crawls on the same laptop on which Gnome-shell flies, and in part because I find it incredibly clumsy and cumbersome to use compared to Gnome-shell. KDE always feel like its in my face whereas Gnome-shell always feel like it out of my way until I need it. In my opinion, the last genuinely usable version of KDE was 2.2. I haven't liked a single release since.

#435

qamelian said: It's all really subjective. Personally, I can't stand KDE 4.3, in part because it literally crawls on the same laptop on which Gnome-shell flies, and in part because I find it incredibly clumsy and cumbersome to use compared to Gnome-shell. KDE always feel like its in my face whereas Gnome-shell always feel like it out of my way until I need it. In my opinion, the last genuinely usable version of KDE was 2.2. I haven't liked a single release since.

I have yet to come across a machine there KDE 4.3 slugs along where Gnome-Shell flies. Each instance has always been relatively comparable, unless you have an old machine and you're running compositing effects which would no doubt slug it along. On my machine, directly comparing Ubuntu and Kubuntu on their separate native installs, KDE uses about 30mb less than Gnome does on fresh boot.

But at the same token, who really cares about 30mb when people are pumping 4 8 16 gb of ram into their systems now-a-days. But even still, it's worth noting that KDE is not the fat pig Gnome enthusiasts put it out to be.

I cannot tell you how pissed off I was when I saw what Gnome was doing with Shell. I knew I had to find another desktop interface. But what? Years of hearing Gnome bash KDE made me truly feel as though KDE sucked when I hadn't extensively used it. What else? XFCE? Meh. LXDE? Meh. MAN am I glad I tried KDE. Which brings me to my next point...

benjamimgois said: +1 , i agree with you completely. But i still think that KDE4 is doing a much better job, and at least for me, so much ahead gnome shell and Zeit!@##@...

This. Quoted for truth.

I'm sure once Gnome-Shell matures, I'll use it as well. But Gnome users, riddle me this. Hardcore Gnome users gave KDE a ton of crap when they changed over code to migrate from KDE 3.5 to KDE 4.0. Granted, 4.0 had problems, as anything else would with a new batch of code. 4.1 solved a ton of them. 4.2 a ton more. Beginning with 4.2 it was pretty damn stable. What do you guys think will happen to Gnome-Shell? They're revamping code from ground up. Just like KDE did...

It's just some food for thought. But just keep in mind, I'm not your KDE fan-boy that you often see. I've used Gnome for about 5 years, and KDE for only about 2 months. I just like to play devil's advocate so users might see the flip side of things. :P

#436

Roasted said: This. Quoted for truth.

Um, no. It may be an opinion you agree with, but that doesn't make it universally true. It certainly isn't something I agree with. My personal experiences with KDE 4.X have been almost entirely negative. The'y been negative to the point that it is unlikely I will seriously consider even trying KDE again for several more releases.

Also, on both my aging P4 laptop and my newer triple core desktop, Gnome-shell dramatically outperforms KDE 4.3. I can only speak for my own hardware and from my own experience. On both these machines, KDE crawls. On the laptop, running KDE for more than 30-40 minutes causes the laptop to grind almost to a halt. On the desktop PC, while I can use KDE for extended periods of time, it isn't a pleasant experience at all, as applications take excessive times to open, dragging windows causes the actual window to move sometime 2-3 seconds after the mouse has been moved. KDE, in general, is just sluggish on this machine. I have no such issues with Gnome-shell on either machine.

Again, I can only comment on my own experiences on the hardware I've used.

#437

qamelian said:

Again, I can only comment on my own experiences on the hardware I've used.

Same for me. That's why I said:

Roasted said:

This. Quoted for truth.

I'm sorry you had the luck you did with KDE, although I'm not entirely convinced that you really utilized KDE in any productive manner to hold any true bearing against it in regard to its performance. You say it's always bad, it's always slow, you haven't had a single good experience with it, etc. I have used LXDE, XFCE, Gnome, Gnome Shell, KDE 3.5, KDE 4.2+, and ALL of them were relatively snappy to use without any sort of indication between them that they were lagging. The ONLY time I had issues with KDE was when I had compositing enabled and I was using a crappy graphics card. Try Gnome with Compiz enabled and you'll get the same results.

Point being, I have used all of the common desktop environments, and while some of them piss me off more than anything (i.e. shell), I still give it credit where it deserves it in regard to its performance. My negative opinion towards Shell was from a personal preference and usability stance, not a performance stance. I can't lie - I have to give these products credit where they deserve it instead of just holding a grudge against it.

I encourage you to try KDE again with an open mindset.

#438

I personally think it's too early to tell whether it's good or not. At the moment it's rather clumsy for me but it just lacks a couple of features and it's good.

#439

dyltman said: I personally think it's too early to tell whether it's good or not. At the moment it's rather clumsy for me but it just lacks a couple of features and it's good.

I agree. It's not so much the current state of it today that bothers me - it's the attitude I got from the mailing list that makes me scared not much more good will come out of it besides what you see now.

#440

Roasted said: I agree. It's not so much the current state of it today that bothers me - it's the attitude I got from the mailing list that makes me scared not much more good will come out of it besides what you see now.

Let's hope that it's not true, otherwise it can leave the same bad impression that KDE 4.0 leaves, or even generate a FORK of Gnome.

#441

Two questions about gnome-shell:

1) Has anyone figured out a workaround for alt + F2 -> restart to get the mouse properly working?

2) It's my understanding that gnome-shell is supposed to use mutter for it's window decorations, but so far my window borders still seem to be controlled by gtk themes and not mutter. Is there a special way to change this, or is mutter only supposed to take over special effects?

#442

---I posted this post on wrong topic---

#443

FatalChaos said: ...

2) It's my understanding that gnome-shell is supposed to use mutter for it's window decorations, but so far my window borders still seem to be controlled by gtk themes and not mutter. Is there a special way to change this, or is mutter only supposed to take over special effects?

Mutter *is* drawing the window borders; like Compiz, it uses metacity themes.

#444

cant get it to work in lucid at the moment... neither from repo (dependency problem) nor if i build it myself...

any howto? regards, marijus

#445

I have been running gnome-shell on a spare account for about 6 months now and I like its ideas. But I am in no way ready to give up compiz for gnome-shell. Usability wise, compiz has great advantages, which gnome-shell plain ignores. In my machine, compiz 'feels' fluent while gnome-shell feels heavy. And what gnome shell is providing can be easily be achieved with compiz expo+scale+gnome do with hot corners being set up.

In the long run, some interesting things might happen. Here is this interesting blog post, the author, who is a developer suggested dropping compiz right now, and as you can see from the comments, had a quite negative reaction. I found the comment of Travis watkins particularly interesting:

Few points here, some already mentioned but I just want to roll them all up into one post:

1) Mutter compositing requires the same or higher 3D acceration when compared to compiz. Some of this may be a lack of optimizations but I have a feeling a lot of it is just due to the fact that they use a full scenegraph for their implementation (clutter).

2) Mutter will almost certainly never have as many effects as compiz or even as many as the default Ubuntu configuration for compiz. Metacity, even in the composited/gnome-shell age, is the Cheerios of Window Managers.

3) 10.04 LTS will almost certainly use the same 2.28 version of GNOME we have now with major a couple exceptions for things like empathy so long as they do not depend on any GTK+ 3/GNOME 3 stuff so we'll certainly have compiz in this release.

4) Compiz is actually more likely to kill metacity in Ubuntu the way things are going now. Metacity is becoming 3D only while compiz is gaining support for running without compositing and with 2D XRender compositing (like metacity does now). This work should be ready in time to 10.10 so unless we decide to fully embrace gnome-shell and the GNOME 3 way there I would expect metacity to be kicked off the CD before compiz.

I took my cue from it and yesterday replaced my top gnome panel with AWN 0.4, It has matured into an almost complete replacement. So far so good.

If gnome-shell fails to achieve feature parity with compiz, I'd rather have an ubuntu with compiz+AWN or any other panel replacement.

#446

I agree with shafin, some sort of a Compiz+AWN setup would be quite good... once the new version of AWN officially comes out - the new AWN is truly quite versatile. (I prefer Gnome-Do or Docky myself but for a default dock AWN wins I think because of its current stability and versatility)

#447

Compiz + AWN has been a pretty good combination in my experience, but there is one fatal flaw: networking. As far as I know, there's no way to use the networking applet w/o gnome panel, and although WICD is a pretty cool program, it still has a ways to go. Last time I tried it, it still had major issues with hidden networks, although hopefully 1.7 will fix that.

#448

I am trying to install gnome-shell from the ubuntu software center and i am getting a couple of errors. The first error is

Sorry, Ubuntu software Center closed unexpectedly if you were not doing anything confidential (entering passwords or other private information), you can help to improve the application by reporting the problem.

I get this error everytime i try to install something so this is probably not the problem. I just tested it and other packages will install even though it crashes.

The second error i am getting Package dependencies cannot be resolved This error could be caused by required additional software packages which are missing or not installable. Futhermore there could be a conflict between software packages which are not allowed to be installed at the same time.

under details it just says gnome-shell

Any help would be great I actually like gnome shell and would like to use it again.

This is what i get when i try to install it from command line

Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable distribution that some required packages have not yet been created or been moved out of Incoming. The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies: gnome-shell: Depends: gobject-introspection-glib-2.0 but it is not installable Depends: gobject-introspection-freedesktop but it is not installable Depends: gobject-introspection-repository but it is not installable

#449

Most of the folks on this thread are building their own to be up to date on gnome-shell.

If you want the shell version from the repos I would head for synaptic and try it there. There are some issues with the software center (been a lot of updates recently for it too). Or you could use apt or aptitiude. Any of those should do it.

#450

OK I am trying to install now with jhbuild and i am getting another error. Maybe it's just not meant to be lol

* Building gir-repository * [2/7] make make all-recursive make[1]: Entering directory /home/gerg/gnome-shell/source/gir-repository' Making all in gir make[2]: Entering directory /home/gerg/gnome-shell/source/gir-repository/gir' /home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/bin/g-ir-scanner -v --namespace Wnck --nsversion=1.0 \ --add-include-path=. --add-include-path=. \ --include=Gtk-2.0 \ --library=wnck-1 \ --libtool="/bin/bash ../libtool" \ --output Wnck-1.0.gir \ --pkg libwnck-1.0 \ -DWNCK_I_KNOW_THIS_IS_UNSTABLE \ pkg-config --variable=includedir libwnck-1.0/libwnck-1.0/libwnck/*.h Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/bin/g-ir-scanner", line 38, in <module> sys.exit(scanner_main(sys.argv)) File "/home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/lib/gobject-introspection/giscanner/scannermain.py", line 280, in scanner_main transformer.register_include(include_obj) File "/home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/lib/gobject-introspection/giscanner/transformer.py", line 111, in register_include filename = self._find_include(include) File "/home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/lib/gobject-introspection/giscanner/transformer.py", line 129, in _find_include % (girname, searchdirs)) ValueError: Couldn't find include 'Gtk-2.0.gir' (search path: ['.', '.', '/home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/share/gir-1.0', '/usr/share/gir-1.0', '/usr/share/gnome/gir-1.0', '/usr/local/share/gir-1.0', '/usr/share/gir-1.0', '/home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/share/gir-1.0', '/usr/share/gir-1.0', '/home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/share/gir-1.0']) make[2]: * [Wnck-1.0.gir] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory /home/gerg/gnome-shell/source/gir-repository/gir' make[1]: * [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory /home/gerg/gnome-shell/source/gir-repository' make: * [all] Error 2 * Error during phase build of gir-repository: ########## Error running make *** [2/7]

[1] Rerun phase build [2] Ignore error and continue to install [3] Give up on module [4] Start shell [5] Reload configuration [6] Go to phase "wipe directory and start over" [7] Go to phase "configure" [8] Go to phase "clean" [9] Go to phase "distclean"

#451

I get this same error.

#452

I have uploaded the current build which works for me. meson.us/x/GnomeShell/ShellBuildJan12.tar.bz2

I recommend deleting what you currently have of gnome-shell. Extract the contents to your home directory and run the usual update commands in the terminal:

bash gnome-shell-build-setup.sh && bin/jhbuild

and finally to start it up

gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src/gnome-shell -r

This version was built on amd64 so it might have to recompile. Not sure if this will work.., its 74.3MB total.:shock: note:this was run in lucid, karmic will have old packages that might not work.

#453

@ Merk42 please correct the link to the source in your first post. currently it is ``` http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/plain/tools/build/gnome-shell-build-setup.sh%3Cbr%20/%3E

it should be

http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/plain/tools/build/gnome-shell-build-setup.sh

thank you!
#454

OOps must have been a typo!

Also, I am trying to figure out how to solve the gtk-2.0.gir problem Lucid users are having.

Haven't found a solution yet.

#455

I just did a fresh install of the newest build and i am still getting the same errors?

* Checking out gobject-introspection * [1/7] git pull --rebase Current branch master is up to date. * Skipping gobject-introspection (not updated) * [1/7] * Checking out gir-repository * [2/7] git pull --rebase Current branch master is up to date. * Building gir-repository * [2/7] make make all-recursive make[1]: Entering directory /home/gerg/gnome-shell/source/gir-repository' Making all in gir make[2]: Entering directory /home/gerg/gnome-shell/source/gir-repository/gir' /home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/bin/g-ir-scanner -v --namespace Wnck --nsversion=1.0 \ --add-include-path=. --add-include-path=. \ --include=Gtk-2.0 \ --library=wnck-1 \ --libtool="/bin/bash ../libtool" \ --output Wnck-1.0.gir \ --pkg libwnck-1.0 \ -DWNCK_I_KNOW_THIS_IS_UNSTABLE \ pkg-config --variable=includedir libwnck-1.0/libwnck-1.0/libwnck/*.h Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/bin/g-ir-scanner", line 38, in <module> sys.exit(scanner_main(sys.argv)) File "/home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/lib/gobject-introspection/giscanner/scannermain.py", line 280, in scanner_main transformer.register_include(include_obj) File "/home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/lib/gobject-introspection/giscanner/transformer.py", line 111, in register_include filename = self._find_include(include) File "/home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/lib/gobject-introspection/giscanner/transformer.py", line 129, in _find_include % (girname, searchdirs)) ValueError: Couldn't find include 'Gtk-2.0.gir' (search path: ['.', '.', '/home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/share/gir-1.0', '/usr/share/gir-1.0', '/usr/share/gnome/gir-1.0', '/usr/local/share/gir-1.0', '/usr/share/gir-1.0', '/home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/share/gir-1.0', '/usr/share/gir-1.0', '/home/gerg/gnome-shell/install/share/gir-1.0']) make[2]: * [Wnck-1.0.gir] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory /home/gerg/gnome-shell/source/gir-repository/gir' make[1]: * [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory /home/gerg/gnome-shell/source/gir-repository' make: * [all] Error 2 * Error during phase build of gir-repository: ########## Error running make *** [2/7]

[1] Rerun phase build [2] Ignore error and continue to install [3] Give up on module [4] Start shell [5] Reload configuration [6] Go to phase "wipe directory and start over" [7] Go to phase "configure" [8] Go to phase "clean" [9] Go to phase "distclean"

#456

Again...

Merk42 said: [SIZE="4"]

Also, I am trying to figure out how to solve the gtk-2.0.gir problem Lucid users are having.

Haven't found a solution yet.[/SIZE]

#457

$sudo apt-get install gir-repository-dev should clear the Couldn't find include 'Gtk-2.0.gir' error

{EDIT] although i'm guessing this is technically a jhbuild problem, installing the gir modules above does certainly work for now

#458

SevenMachines said: $sudo apt-get install gir-repository-dev

should clear the Couldn't find include 'Gtk-2.0.gir' error

{EDIT] although i'm guessing this is technically a jhbuild problem, installing the gir modules above does certainly work for now

Oh nice, that worked, I'll update the OP

Also: [SIZE="4"]Early (broken?) version of message tray and notification daemon now in GNOME Shell[/SIZE]

#459

Seems to be broken indeed!

#460

Merk42 said: Oh nice, that worked, I'll update the OP

Also: [SIZE="4"]Early (broken?) version of message tray and notification daemon now in GNOME Shell[/SIZE]

I'm getting another error after that one!

*** Building clutter *** [3/7]
make  
make: *** No rule to make target `build/autotools/Makefile.am.changelog', needed by `Makefile.in'.  Stop.
*** Error during phase build of clutter: ########## Error running make   *** [3/7]

  [1] Rerun phase build
  [2] Ignore error and continue to install
  [3] Give up on module
  [4] Start shell
  [5] Reload configuration
  [6] Go to phase "wipe directory and start over"
  [7] Go to phase "configure"
  [8] Go to phase "clean"
  [9] Go to phase "distclean"
choice: 
#461

^^ Well, it works after you tell it to wipe all and start over- option 6.

#462

Merk42 said: Oh nice, that worked, I'll update the OP

Btw. Another note to your original post: jhbuild is now in the repos for lucid again

#463

godhika said: Btw. Another note to your original post: jhbuild is now in the repos for lucid again

yeah it's said to get jhbuild in the lucid repos for some time now, unless I am misunderstanding?

#464

Well, I have tried Gnome Shell, in Karmic cause I couldn't get it running in Lucid, and I hope Gnome intend to still support and develop the current 2 series. Why? well Gnome Shell just wont work properly on my poor little Acer. I can certainly start it but navigation is a long drawn out nightmare that results in me getting frustrated and rebooting back into the standard system. I have removed Gnome Shell from both installs and they both now boot as fast as they used to.

If they choose not to support the current 2 series into the future I will have to move to another Desktop Environment for my main work machine, the Acer laptop.

#465

A look is enough for me...It *almost* looks like they borrowed the inspiration from M$ (Vista), with all that junk stuck on one menu. Additionally, it's kind of a waste to have something like that running on the GPU. I never really cared for GNOME, but this is definitely underwhelming. I think a window manager shouldn't get in the way or pull too much by way of resources (CPU, GPU, RAM, or disk). If it does, there'd better be something to show for it (Compiz, for instance). That's why I use IceWM.

As far as specifics: Why stick everything in one place? In particular, the usage-based grouping is an inconvenience.

Don't take this as flamebait; but I vote for not making this default any time soon. Ibidem

#466

I think they have to continue support for 2 as there are a lot of boxes that will not support 3. Mine will not support desktop effects. There is no way this bugger is going to run a convoluted deal like gnome shell.

This is not an old box. Bought it in fall of 08. Bios installed march of 08.

I believe the plan, I am sure someone can correct me if I am wrong, is for 3 to be installed as default UNLESS the system will not support it in which case you will default to 2.

I sure hope I am right, Lxde is fine but I prefer gnome. I am not compatible with KDE. Xfce is kind of silly in a lot of ways, at least in Xubuntu (I like Zenix).

#467

ranch hand said: I think they have to continue support for 2 as there are a lot of boxes that will not support 3. Mine will not support desktop effects. There is no way this bugger is going to run a convoluted deal like gnome shell.

This is not an old box. Bought it in fall of 08. Bios installed march of 08.

I believe the plan, I am sure someone can correct me if I am wrong, is for 3 to be installed as default UNLESS the system will not support it in which case you will default to 2.

I sure hope I am right, Lxde is fine but I prefer gnome. I am not compatible with KDE. Xfce is kind of silly in a lot of ways, at least in Xubuntu (I like Zenix).Well if they don't I'll resort to FluxBox and even that isn't what I would like. To much difficulty finding separate /home partitions etc where as Gnome knows it is there.

Don't get me wrong I like the look of Gnome Shell but it just wont work on my main machine as it stands now.

#468

On two of my machines, nvidea and ATI drivers gnome-shell runs ok. On my Toshiba Satellite with intel graphics-

description: VGA compatible controller product: 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device vendor: Intel Corporation I get the following errors every time I move the cursor, this also stops me selecting (gaining focus) on anything, such as a window.

(mutter:2735): Clutter-WARNING **: The required ID of 1315860 does not refer to an existing actor; this usually implies that the pick() of an actor is not correctly implemented or that there is an error in the glReadPixels() implementation of the GL driver.

#469

Ibidem said: A look is enough for me...It *almost* looks like they borrowed the inspiration from M$ (Vista), with all that junk stuck on one menu. Additionally, it's kind of a waste to have something like that running on the GPU.

I never really cared for GNOME, but this is definitely underwhelming. I think a window manager shouldn't get in the way or pull too much by way of resources (CPU, GPU, RAM, or disk). If it does, there'd better be something to show for it (Compiz, for instance). That's why I use IceWM. My desktop has a powerful CPU and GPU and lots of RAM. If I don't use those resources on a daily basis then what's the point of me buying them in the first place? I do not mean that applications should be sloppily written or have unnecessary features and consume more resources than it needs. The only problem would be if the DE is "stealing" resources while using other applications. If I am gaming or doing something which requires a lot of computing resources I obviously do not wish to be handicapped by a hungry DE. That said, I have no fear that Gnome with Gnome Shell will be noticably slower than current Gnome.

#470

ranch hand said: I think they have to continue support for 2 as there are a lot of boxes that will not support 3. Mine will not support desktop effects. There is no way this bugger is going to run a convoluted deal like gnome shell.

This is not an old box. Bought it in fall of 08. Bios installed march of 08.

I believe the plan, I am sure someone can correct me if I am wrong, is for 3 to be installed as default UNLESS the system will not support it in which case you will default to 2.

I sure hope I am right, Lxde is fine but I prefer gnome. I am not compatible with KDE. Xfce is kind of silly in a lot of ways, at least in Xubuntu (I like Zenix).

Agreed.

Last year if my boss came to me and said hey look let's deploy a Linux lab, I'd choose Ubuntu, because I felt as though Ubuntu and Gnome were both solid.

If he asked me today let's deploy a Linux lab, I'd say Mandrivia, no doubt. Their implementation of KDE and their stability and ease of use, while still having a good bundle of high end features (much comparable to Ubuntu's ease of use vs advanced feature standpoint) is very solid.

So all in all, Gnome Shell pushed me to KDE, which further pushed me to other distros besides *buntu since I didn't feel as though Kubuntu was as exciting to use as other distros like Sidux, MEPIS, Mandriva, or openSUSE.

I hope Gnome Shell turns out to surprise everybody and be really solid. After all, it's still in development. I have severe doubts though. :( Either way I'll probably forever remain in KDE land. :)

#471

Roasted said: I hope Gnome Shell turns out to surprise everybody and be really solid. After all, it's still in development. I have severe doubts though. :( Either way I'll probably forever remain in KDE land. :)

I hope it won't cripple my system to a stop like compiz does, after all, gnome-shell requires compositing.

#472

Ironically, I decided to devote more time to really review the direction Gnome Shell wants to take and the user opinions I've heard about. Although there's no doubt there's a good hand full of users with negative opinions, quite a few like it.

I think it's time I put it to the real test. I plan to crash my work laptop (currently has Mandriva installed) tonight or tomorrow and use it for a solid month. Chances are I will be coupling it for use with Gnome-Do's Docky, since I used it previously and found it to be exceptional in usability and whatnot.

So I'm going to clear my mind, my previous experiences, and use it as much as I possibly can. We'll see where the crossroad takes me. Has anybody else used Shell with Docky? Is there any word of Docky being a permanent inclusion to Ubuntu in the future?

#473

Doubt docky would be default (duplicate functionality), although a dock in shell would be welcomed. If your going to go shell tho, then you should go balls-out shell only. At least thats the way its supposed to work.

#474

A lot of folks are simply afraid of change - why else are there still so many windows users.

I installed gnome-shell this morning and would like to test it for awhile before I make any negative or positive feedback. But keep in mind its not planned to be released for another 10 months.

:popcorn:

#475

Roasted said: Ironically, I decided to devote more time to really review the direction Gnome Shell wants to take and the user opinions I've heard about. Although there's no doubt there's a good hand full of users with negative opinions, quite a few like it.

I think it's time I put it to the real test. I plan to crash my work laptop (currently has Mandriva installed) tonight or tomorrow and use it for a solid month. Chances are I will be coupling it for use with Gnome-Do's Docky, since I used it previously and found it to be exceptional in usability and whatnot.

So I'm going to clear my mind, my previous experiences, and use it as much as I possibly can. We'll see where the crossroad takes me. Has anybody else used Shell with Docky? Is there any word of Docky being a permanent inclusion to Ubuntu in the future?

I've tried it with both Docky and AWN, and to be honest, I've uninstalled them both. I just don't find that a dock benefits my work habits. From a performance standpoint though, Docky and AWN both seemed fairly speedy and stable running with Gnome-shell and, although I don't find docks useful, I can see where other users might find some benefit in combining a dock for some added or familiar functionality.

#476

qamelian said: I've tried it with both Docky and AWN, and to be honest, I've uninstalled them both. I just don't find that a dock benefits my work habits. From a performance standpoint though, Docky and AWN both seemed fairly speedy and stable running with Gnome-shell and, although I don't find docks useful, I can see where other users might find some benefit in combining a dock for some added or familiar functionality.

Quite honestly the only reason I would think a dock would be ideal with Gnome Shell is because the top panel of Gnome Shell doesn't seem to allow shortcut icons. Something I used extensively in Ubuntu with Gnome 2.X. I also used Gnome 2.X with the bottom panel gone, replaced by Docky which auto hides. I gotta admit - that was really nice. The Docky developers are probably the most optimistic and helpful I've ever seen before. I was in an IRC with them and they literally begged me to use Docky much more in an attempt to try and break it, so I could report the bug to them so they could make it more robust.

What is the fully recommended way to go about installing Gnome Shell? I was just using the repo from 9.10 and rolling with it that way. Is there a higher recommended method? Preferably something that won't require 2 hours of hacking and troubleshooting to get rolling?

#477

Roasted said: Quite honestly the only reason I would think a dock would be ideal with Gnome Shell is because the top panel of Gnome Shell doesn't seem to allow shortcut icons. Something I used extensively in Ubuntu with Gnome 2.X. I also used Gnome 2.X with the bottom panel gone, replaced by Docky which auto hides. I gotta admit - that was really nice. The Docky developers are probably the most optimistic and helpful I've ever seen before. I was in an IRC with them and they literally begged me to use Docky much more in an attempt to try and break it, so I could report the bug to them so they could make it more robust.

What is the fully recommended way to go about installing Gnome Shell? I was just using the repo from 9.10 and rolling with it that way. Is there a higher recommended method? Preferably something that won't require 2 hours of hacking and troubleshooting to get rolling? If I had to use a dock, I'm afraid I would have to choose AWN over Docky every time, just because the extensibility of AWN gives it a better shot at actually being useful to me. For my purposes though, Docky only succeeds in being a way to waste screen real estate that I have better uses for. I don't rely on shortcuts on the panel now, although I can remember a time when I'd have shortcuts for all my most used apps up there. :)

I've tried both the version from the repos and the build method provided on the gnome-shell page at gnome.org. Personally, I prefer to "roll my own", but I can't say there is any logical reason for that other than it allowed me to use current builds as opposed to the out-dated ones that appeared in the official repos. There is also the ricotz PPA which provides fairly up to date builds. If you want to test essentially the latest and greatest, but don't want to spend a half hour or so compiling it yourself, the ricotz PPA is probably the way to go.

#478

william_nbg said: why else are there still so many windows users

Because it works?

#479

I'm using the g-s now and have done so for over a month, but I have to admit that for work purposes it does not cut it (yet). First of all too many crashes (as expected from alpha software), but it really does not help with the overall experience. Acrobat (I know I should be using evince, but for several reasons I still prefer acrobat) crashes g-s very often. This is admittedly no big surprise, but also OOo (specifically Impress) has problems.

As for g-s, I don't mind the "recent items" (a bit crowded, but actually I nearly never use it), but I find the "places and devices" area unimaginative. Everything else is mostly ok and for some purposes even better than Gnome 2... but the application/task changing and overview of open applications is still uncomfortable for me. Alt+Tab is in itself wonderful, but if I have many windows of the same app open I have to hunt for the right window (for example I have 3 or more FF windows open then it takes an extra mouse movement to get there). Still I use mostly Alt+Tab because when copying pictures from FF to Impress (e.g.) the whole expose thing is a bit disorientating. Admittedly the current taskbar system is not ideal either.

I like the notifications of g-s better than the Ubuntu implementation. Notifications at the bottom of the screen are really less distracting than the upper right corner.

Overall - I can imagine myself using it full time, but I would like to see some improvements in the area of task switching and file management.

#480

I am currently running GNOME Shell (have it as a startup application) and have to say it really works for me. As for the upgrade to Lucid that I am running, it may break GNOME Shell, I'll see. However, it really works nonetheless.

#481

I've been using GS on Karmic for a month and a half or so now and the more I use it, the more I like it. A couple dislikes though:

  • The applet implementation on top doesn't allow you to put your own up yet, would be nice if it would.
  • Why is the clock so prevelent? I like it in G2 where it's just on the side, I generally don't care that it's Thu, why waste that space?
  • Laggy, but it's still in alpha form so it's alright.
  • the "Applications" menu displays an unsorted list of applications, the GS in the repos had it sorted, not sure why they switched to one long list.
  • No dock. I just use Docky, but I think they should include a dock with the final release.
  • Has crashed a couple times with OOo, but otherwise very stable.
  • Can't select anything in the upper bar when in the zoom out thingy.

A few things I like:

  • Love being able to press the super button, start typing in an application/place/file and having it there. Just discovered this a couple weeks ago and now I think it's the best feature, I really dislike GS before then to be honest.
  • It's pretty, good for showing off 'cool Linux stuff'
  • Stable for the most part.

My suggestions:

  • Use the bar up top, right now nothing useful is up there, other than the time and network manager (although I just use the Docky add-on so really I never use the top bar ever)
  • Be able to delete things from recent items list, some of use aren't saints, I'll just leave it at that...
  • Make "Places and Devices" more presentable.
  • Sort applications in the "more applications" menu.
  • Since there is no dock by default, include "Desktop" in the alt-tab selections like in Win7
  • Last, and most needed before the final release, configurability.

Just my two cents, not sure if anyone on here is a GS developer that could look into those, I think like my gripes wouldn't be hard to implement.

Does anyone know of a place to see what the GS team is working on? I find it interesting to follow development, even though I'm not that technical of a user.

#482

OlyPerson,

you forgot that you can't drag applications from GS to a dock.

you forgot Ubuntu Software Center does not appear in GS Applications.

you forgot that ALT+Tab doesn't work, it uses Metacity's, which only works for the current workspace.

you forgot that workspaces cannot be configured by default in GS, even if you specify 4 in metacity, it doesn't show four in GS by default.

you forgot that there is a pattern to removing GS workspaces (You can't remove any non-used workspace you wish, you have to remove it in the pattern specified.

you forgot that GS requires composition, this is bad for us lower end computer users.

#483

Psumi said: OlyPerson,

you forgot that you can't drag applications from GS to a dock.

you forgot Ubuntu Software Center does not appear in GS Applications.

you forgot that ALT+Tab doesn't work, it uses Metacity's, which only works for the current workspace.

you forgot that workspaces cannot be configured by default in GS, even if you specify 4 in metacity, it doesn't show four in GS by default.

you forgot that there is a pattern to removing GS workspaces (You can't remove any non-used workspace you wish, you have to remove it in the pattern specified.

you forgot that GS requires composition, this is bad for us lower end computer users.

Way to make that sound like a personal attack... thanks.

As for those things, only the last two I really care about. Software center could easily be added to apps (if they wanted to), or you can just type "cen" into the Find... bar and press enter. Alt-tab works just fine, I have no idea what you're talking about. It works for all workspaces on my computer. And I don't really know why one would configure workspaces in metacity? Not really sure what that's about.

#484

I didn't realise they'd changed the 'more applications' menu until I read it here just now.

When I first installed the shell that menu seemed to essentally be the applications menu from standard gnome, now they appear to have turned it into a windows start menu.

One of the first things I point out to someone when showing linux of is 'look, the menus are sorted, no more labyrinth to navigate', I may be forced to eat my words!

#485

qamelian said: If I had to use a dock, I'm afraid I would have to choose AWN over Docky every time, just because the extensibility of AWN gives it a better shot at actually being useful to me. For my purposes though, Docky only succeeds in being a way to waste screen real estate that I have better uses for. I don't rely on shortcuts on the panel now, although I can remember a time when I'd have shortcuts for all my most used apps up there. :)

I've tried both the version from the repos and the build method provided on the gnome-shell page at gnome.org. Personally, I prefer to "roll my own", but I can't say there is any logical reason for that other than it allowed me to use current builds as opposed to the out-dated ones that appeared in the official repos. There is also the ricotz PPA which provides fairly up to date builds. If you want to test essentially the latest and greatest, but don't want to spend a half hour or so compiling it yourself, the ricotz PPA is probably the way to go.

I like AWN. But I find it kind of lacking to know they only NOW in their new alpha version has dual monitor support. Docky has had that since day one. Not to mention the developers of Docky - yeah they're awesome. :)

#486

FatalChaos said: Compiz + AWN has been a pretty good combination in my experience, but there is one fatal flaw: networking. As far as I know, there's no way to use the networking applet w/o gnome panel, and although WICD is a pretty cool program, it still has a ways to go. Last time I tried it, it still had major issues with hidden networks, although hopefully 1.7 will fix that.

I am not a big fan of it, it just needs some cleanup work, but the latest AWN DOES actually have a 'notification applet' that has networking, volume, bluetooth, etc.

#487

Running Gnome Shell now. Have only had it running for about 20 minutes, but so far my experience is positive. But there's one thing that pisses me off.

That ******* "more" button next to Applications. IT MUST BE BIGGER. It's so damn inefficient to activate the overlay and try to click that button. I know it sounds like I'm asking a lot because it's not that small, but seriously, delete the "more" button and make the entire Applications bar/headline the button.

That's one thing that really irritates me. But I have the version of Gnome Shell from the repos installed. Perhaps someone running the daily build or whatever can confirm/deny as to whether or not that more button is still the same??

#488

Roasted said: Perhaps someone running the daily build or whatever can confirm/deny as to whether or not that more button is still the same??

The daily builds no longer have the 'more' button, the whole bar is a button now. Still wish the results were sorted...

I've attached a screenshot of the newest build, not really much different than what's in the repos appearance wise.

Oh, and I strongly suggest just pressing the button with the windows icon on it and typing just the first few letters of the application (even anything in preferences and files or what-not) you want and selecting it. Much faster.

#489

MacUntu said: Because it works?

Tell that to my Xp computer that continues to insist that a file I right-clicked and chose 'open with...' does not exist... Trust me, people don't use windows because it works better than everything else. Preinstallation/familiarity, lock-in due to software/hardware dependencies on windows and lack of knowledge about alternatives are more plausible reasons.

Anyway, I'm still intrigued by Gnome shell but I expect there to be KDE 4 level backlash because due to unrealistic expectations. But the thing is written in Javascript so I expect it to be very 'hackable' and flexible rather than 'set in stone'.

It is really high time for us to try designs that evolve the decades old desktop model. Hats off to compiz for stimulating the imagination even if it is getting subsumed/obsoleted by the next gen DEs.

#490

Methuselah said: Anyway, I'm still intrigued by Gnome shell but I expect there to be KDE 4 level backlash because due to unrealistic expectations.

But the thing is written in Javascript so I expect it to be very 'hackable' and flexible rather than 'set in stone'.

WHAT?! Java?!! And what was this thing I once heard about mandatory compositing? OK, say goodbye to Gnome on old computers...

(edit: Ok, maybe it will still run well on older (old-gnome-capable) machines, but I just have bad experiences with most java programs. And, yes, Javascript is not Java. Perhaps I overreacted. ^^' I'll just switch to other desktop environments if necessary.)

#491

KIAaze said: WHAT?! Java?!!

And what was this thing I once heard about mandatory compositing? OK, say goodbye to Gnome on old computers...

(edit: Ok, maybe it will still run well on older (old-gnome-capable) machines, but I just have bad experiences with most java programs.)

Java*script* (aka ECMAScript) that is wholly different than Java.

and that "one thing you heard" is true.

#492

I really think bashing the compositing thing is overblown...

I set up compiz on my sister-in-laws PIII with a shitty 32MB graphics card and it worked fine for wobbly windows and the cube albiet slow... so I did turn the cube off (you don't really expect peppy stuff on something like that... do you?).

She knew the computer wasn't a "screamer" and didn't do much past the standard stuff anyways, even with windows on it. For what she needed to do it worked fine, with compositing enabled.

My only real beef with G-S right now is that the fonts are a bit small and would like to find where to increase them in gconf-editor.

#493

Methuselah said:

But the thing is written in Javascript so I expect it to be very 'hackable' and flexible rather than 'set in stone'.

Indeed.

#494

I installed via ubuntu tweak, and I don't like it atall, of-course its all a matter of opinion really.

#495

gspat said: I really think bashing the compositing thing is overblown...

I set up compiz on my sister-in-laws PIII with a shitty 32MB graphics card and it worked fine for wobbly windows and the cube albiet slow... Ah, but you're forgetting a whole class of machines which is currently perfectly able to run Gnome but will be pushed off the platform if Gnome Shell ever becomes standard. I'm talking about notebooks from the beginning of the 21st century, like the IBM ThinkPad T23 I'm using to enter this posting. This is my main machine, perfectly able to run most everything I throw at it with its 1.2 GHz PIII-m as long as it does not need fancy 3D graphics. The 'graphics processor' does not support non-power-of-two textures and as such can not be used with Compiz or Gnome Shell. Compositing in itself works fine with Metacity - albeit a bit slow - but Gnome Shell (or rather the graphics libraries it is based on) does not need just compositing but also non-power-of-two textures which are not supported by earlier GPU's.

I'd suggest changing GS to make compositing non-mandatory. It should be possible to overlay those fancy effects instead of compositing the whole bunch. Maybe without live update and such, who cares.

Oh well, I'm still using the mini-commander applet instead of that abomination called deskbar. I might as well do the same to with the panel...

#496

As much as I like KDE, I will go as far to say that I had Kubuntu installed on a spare computer of mine. Pentium 4, 1gb RAM, and some really awful integrated graphics card. The system would bog down when compositing was enabled. However, gnome-shell didn't feel as heavily demanding as KDE. Even though I'll take it to the grave that KDE isn't more RAM intensive than Gnome (I tested it pretty thoroughly, side by side, same machine), I would say that KDE does need a little oomph with the graphic side of it.

#497

OlyPerson said: The daily builds no longer have the 'more' button, the whole bar is a button now. Still wish the results were sorted...

I've attached a screenshot of the newest build, not really much different than what's in the repos appearance wise.

Oh, and I strongly suggest just pressing the button with the windows icon on it and typing just the first few letters of the application (even anything in preferences and files or what-not) you want and selecting it. Much faster.

Yes! I like that! See what the hell happened? I was on the mailing list and was talking to the guys and they told me that wouldn't be changed.

Okay, I'm a little more optimistic now about using it...

How do I get the version you have attached? I'd like to use as close to the real thing as possible.

#498

I agree with making compisiting mandatory rather than compromising for machines that cannot handle 3D. The good thing is that there are choices such as an older version of Gnome or XFCE. XFCE will be an excellent, actively developed alternative for those who want to use it.

#499

Methuselah said: XFCE will be an excellent, actively developed alternative for those who want to use it.

Xubuntu still won't have parole in it rather than totem though, which is a shame since Parole is XFCE/xulrunner/gstreamer, and totem is GNOME/gstreamer.

And also, remember the --no-install-recommends flag on apt-get install, I have to use it a lot when installing apps for my XFCE. Another thing is to never install pulseaudio, my word, that thing is horrible, alsa-utils is fine on its own.

#500

So I was here getting kind of pissy because I only knew how to activate the overlay with clicking Activities. I'm happy to see that the "super" key activates it as well. Makes me 100% faster at multitasking on this. It's one thing I did not know last time I used it.

I'm also happy to see ALT TAB is here. I was reading about it before and it sounded like ALT TAB was not here? Or something? But whatever, I dig. I dig.

Can I change the super key to something else? I think it'd be cool to be able to activate the overlay based on an additional button I have on my mouse that has no other functionality besides being existent. Any ideas?

#501

Roasted said: How do I get the version you have attached? I'd like to use as close to the real thing as possible.

Read my large first post of this thread and build from source

#502
#503

Merk42 said: Read my large first post of this thread and build from source

I tried that when I first tried gnome shell a while back. It was disasterous. I'll give it another shot... crossing fingers...

#504

Roasted said: I tried that when I first tried gnome shell a while back. It was disasterous. I'll give it another shot... crossing fingers...

I just added the ricotz ppa (http://ppa.launchpad.net/ricotz/testing/ubuntu) and it'll update periodically.

I was also wondering how old these computers are that can't use compositing? If those people that can't use it stick with Lucid (it being an LTS and all), by the time support for Lucid is dropped those computers will be what, 12 years old or something? Maybe more? At some point it is reasonable to stop supporting something so old and move on.

Yes, it would be better to not need compositing but it's not the end of the world if it is required.

#505

OlyPerson said: I just added the ricotz ppa (http://ppa.launchpad.net/ricotz/testing/ubuntu) and it'll update periodically.

What's the protocol with that?

Add repo, sudo apt-get update, and still use the gnome-shell --replace command to activate it? Or will it auto-start with that PPA?

#506

Roasted said: What's the protocol with that?

Add repo, sudo apt-get update, and still use the gnome-shell --replace command to activate it? Or will it auto-start with that PPA?

use the gnome-shell --replace command to activate it

#507

Gourgi said: use the gnome-shell --replace command to activate it

When I added the repo in software sources, the "add source" button never became activated. It was grayed out. How do I add this darn thing?

#508

gksudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
#509

Keyper7 said: This page is long due, and worth following as it grows.

Looks like I'll have to opt out of GNOME Shell then. The IBM T41 is pretty old. I'll probably end up using XFCE and slim though, if you didn't see it yet, SLiM is in the lucid repos.

#510

OlyPerson said: I just added the ricotz ppa (http://ppa.launchpad.net/ricotz/testing/ubuntu) and it'll update periodically.

I was also wondering how old these computers are that can't use compositing? If those people that can't use it stick with Lucid (it being an LTS and all), by the time support for Lucid is dropped those computers will be what, 12 years old or something? Maybe more? At some point it is reasonable to stop supporting something so old and move on.

Yes, it would be better to not need compositing but it's not the end of the world if it is required.

Did you notice that Gnome-shell is incompatible with VMs? And, yes, there are plenty of people who use those. Note also that some intel integrated graphics are rather low-end. Then there's the question of what happens when someone tries running, say, Google Earth; if 2 apps use the same resource, both run slower.

On my own netbook made last year, 3-d graphics feel sluggish when I use them. Compositing also will not help battery life, which is something Ubuntu has been behind on.

Gnome-shell requires 3d, while Compiz works with 2d. If Compiz has more effects, and gnome-shell is incompatible...I say, Compiz is by far the better choice, with lower hardware requirements, more effects, and better speed.

Ibidem

#511

Psumi said: Looks like I'll have to opt out of GNOME Shell then. The IBM T41 is pretty old. I'll probably end up using XFCE and slim though, if you didn't see it yet, SLiM is in the lucid repos.

I am not using Gnome Shell. I like what I have and don't particularly like what I am seeing and reading.

I do not see, however, anything on that linked page that is anything but reassuring to anyone concerned with the advent of G3.

What on there leads you to believe that you will not be able to use gnome the same way that you do now?

#512

I added the PPA of Gnome-Shell through the ricotz PPA or whatever and installed it. It's working great. However, I have a problem.

Previously, I would often lose my mouse when using Gnome-Shell. There was an easy fix - ALT F2 and type "restart". Blam. Worked.

After installing Gnome-Shell through the PPA, I have no ALT F2. And currently, I have no mouse. So therefore, I don't know how to fix this problem.

#513

ranch hand said: What on there leads you to believe that you will not be able to use gnome the same way that you do now?

According to their FAQ/Myth thing there, they are having GNOME Shell by default (Nautilus is being revamped to have this happen.) Which means that since my T41 has issues with compositing (to the point where it stops functioning when a large window is opened like terminal) I will have to have a roundabout way of installing ubuntu gnome edition, mainly through the mini.iso as I do now.

I guess this means I will be using GNOME Normally but, I think I'll switch to XFCE regardless, as it's getting to be more mature and I can start not using gnome depends now thanks to slim, parole, ayttm, etc.

#514

Ah, I see, thats cool.

#515

Has anybody been curious enough to slap 9.10 + the PPA of Gnome Shell on a standard 1.6ghz atom netbook and see how it holds up?

#516

Well, this is promising.

Nvidia 9600GT. Two monitors in twinview. Installed Gnome Shell from the PPA listed earlier.

gnome-shell --replace = background, no panels. weeeeeeee. Anybody have a fix for this?

#517

Roasted said: Well, this is promising.

Nvidia 9600GT. Two monitors in twinview. Installed Gnome Shell from the PPA listed earlier.

gnome-shell --replace = background, no panels. weeeeeeee. Anybody have a fix for this?

You don't have the top black panel with the time, systray, applications thing?

If not, a lot of people will say to you: worksforme.

#518

ranch hand said:

gksudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list


If you are adding these things manually, it would be preferred not to add this to your sources list, instead create a new .list file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d:

sudo touch /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ricotz-testing.list && sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ricotz-testing.list


Or something like:

sudo sh -c 'echo "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ricotz/testing/ubuntu karmic main" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ricotz-testing.list'


Later, Seeker
#519

Ibidem said:

Gnome-shell requires 3d, while Compiz works with 2d. If Compiz has more effects, and gnome-shell is incompatible...I say, Compiz is by far the better choice, with lower hardware requirements, more effects, and better speed.

Ibidem

Compiz does require 3d as well. So any compiz-able pc will probably run gnome-shell just fine. You're still right about VM's. Though there is a lot of work underway of enabling 3d support client side. A while ago I had Ubuntu with compiz running in some VM, so gnome-shell should be possible as well.

#520

seeker5528 said: If you are adding these things manually, it would be preferred not to add this to your sources list, instead create a new .list file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d:

sudo touch /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ricotz-testing.list && sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ricotz-testing.list
sudo sh -c 'echo "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ricotz/testing/ubuntu karmic main" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ricotz-testing.list'

I am aware of this but it is good you pointed it out.

I prefer the in my sources list and didn't think.

You should still use "gksudo" instead of "sudo" for graphic apps.

#521

Roasted said: Has anybody been curious enough to slap 9.10 + the PPA of Gnome Shell on a standard 1.6ghz atom netbook and see how it holds up?

That's what I've been running and it works fine, a bit slow I guess but I've always used slow computers so it's relatively speedy compared to what I'm accustomed to.

@Ibidem Yeah I can see your point there. Especially about battery life, my battery life with Ubuntu is less than with XP I think (haven't run XP in a long time, so maybe my battery is just worn down) which isn't right IMO.

I don't understand why they couldn't just create a GS without all the effects and mark it as 'None' under Visual Effects (in the Appearance thingy) and then have an option for 'Normal' and 'Extra' like they have now with Gnome-2.x. How hard could that be to have something like that?

#522

OlyPerson said: That's what I've been running and it works fine, a bit slow I guess but I've always used slow computers so it's relatively speedy compared to what I'm accustomed to.

Atoms are dual-core, how about single-core, 1.6 GHz?

#523

Psumi said: Atoms are dual-core, how about single-core, 1.6 GHz?

No, mobile Atoms are single core (which is what I have), you can enable hyperthreading though. My computer can't even begin to play HD content but runs GS just fine. I did upgrade to 2gigs of RAM and a 7200rpm hard drive though, although I don't think either of those things are important for running GS.

Edit: And they're also 1.6 Ghz, although most of the time it downclocks to 800mhz. My core temp is normally around 52-56C which is about the same as with gnome 2.x, which I take as an indicator that it's not working that much harder.

#524

OlyPerson said: No, mobile Atoms are single core (which is what I have), you can enable hyperthreading though. My computer can't even begin to play HD content but runs GS just fine. I did upgrade to 2gigs of RAM and a 7200rpm hard drive though, although I don't think either of those things are important for running GS.

Edit: And they're also 1.6 Ghz, although most of the time it downclocks to 800mhz. My core temp is normally around 52-56C which is about the same as with gnome 2.x, which I take as an indicator that it's not working that much harder.

Really? I had an toshiba netbook and it said dual-core according to ubuntu, Atom of course, and there was no HT option in the BIOS.

#525

Psumi said: Really? I had an toshiba netbook and it said dual-core according to ubuntu, Atom of course, and there was no HT option in the BIOS.

There are definitely only single core mobile Atom processors, even the newer generation N450 mobile Atoms have only a single core variant. Hyperthreading must have been enabled by default or something. See this

#526

Psumi said: You don't have the top black panel with the time, systray, applications thing?

If not, a lot of people will say to you: worksforme.

I have found I just have to issue gnome-shell --replace yet again to get it to kickstart and work properly.

#527

OlyPerson said: There are definitely only single core mobile Atom processors, even the newer generation N450 mobile Atoms have only a single core variant. Hyperthreading must have been enabled by default or something. See this

Okay, I guess. But I meant try it on single-core without HT technology (IE: Pentium M Centrino)

with only 496 MB (512 MB) RAM and 32 MB ATI FireGL Card.

#528

This may be me jumping the gun, but is anybody else finding that a dock is unusually effective when using it coupled with GS? There are times I just want to switch from skype to firefox on the fly. Yes, I have alt tab. Yes, I could hit the overlay and quick hit the window. But sometimes it's nice just clocking the mouse to the bottom of the screen - blam there's the dock - blam there's the icon.

I'm trying to avoid using a dock, but it's so nice to use with it.

#529

Question.

I have 9.10 64 bit on two computers. One desktop, one laptop.

On the laptop, when I activate the overlay and click on an icon to launch an application, the overlay stays activated - which is nice because I can launch multiple apps at once without getting dizzy from zooming in/out in between each application.

On the desktop, it's the opposite. When I click on an application to launch, the desktop goes full screen again. It doesn't stay stuck on the overlay.

Any ideas?

Also - is there a way I can kill the current gnome-shell instance and go back to the regular gnome panels?

#530

Roasted said: Question.

I have 9.10 64 bit on two computers. One desktop, one laptop.

On the laptop, when I activate the overlay and click on an icon to launch an application, the overlay stays activated - which is nice because I can launch multiple apps at once without getting dizzy from zooming in/out in between each application.

On the desktop, it's the opposite. When I click on an application to launch, the desktop goes full screen again. It doesn't stay stuck on the overlay.

Any ideas?

Also - is there a way I can kill the current gnome-shell instance and go back to the regular gnome panels?

Did you install GNOME Shell the exact same way in each of those machines?

If you started gnome-shell via the terminal CTRL-C kills it and brings you back to the panels

#531

Roasted said: This may be me jumping the gun, but is anybody else finding that a dock is unusually effective when using it coupled with GS? There are times I just want to switch from skype to firefox on the fly. Yes, I have alt tab. Yes, I could hit the overlay and quick hit the window. But sometimes it's nice just clocking the mouse to the bottom of the screen - blam there's the dock - blam there's the icon.

I'm trying to avoid using a dock, but it's so nice to use with it.

I've been using it with Cairo-Dock & the two seem to play well with each other....even the new bottom notify works well with it. I tried AWN & Docky, but neither worked the way I wanted........

As for your multi-app start--I would guess that you are beating the timing back to desktop....My i7-920 snaps back so fast I could never get a second click in :)

#532

I did the same thing on my laptop as I did to my desktop. Not sure why the laptop is more stable with it.

I gotta admit, I don't know where my optimism came from before to try GS for 30 days. It hasn't been 24 hours and I'm kind of tired of it. :/

#533

It grows on you---I've been using it for over 6 months now (constant for the last 2) & I find it harder & harder to go back to Gnome2.... It has become much more stable in the last couple of months---to the point where I feel comfortable with it day in/out & my wife has finally grown use to it also (no small feat!!!)....

Once it has stabilized enough to be released I expect the "hack-fest" will start & config stuff you can't do now will be commonplace. Only time will tell.

#534

autocrosser said: It grows on you---I've been using it for over 6 months now (constant for the last 2) & I find it harder & harder to go back to Gnome2.... It has become much more stable in the last couple of months---to the point where I feel comfortable with it day in/out & my wife has finally grown use to it also (no small feat!!!)....

Once it has stabilized enough to be released I expect the "hack-fest" will start & config stuff you can't do now will be commonplace. Only time will tell.

I understand Gnome Shell. I know what it's doing and I understand the layout. It's just... I don't feel as though it's that efficient. Maybe it's just my personal preference kicking in, but I don't feel as though there is a stable notification system in place.

When I have Firefox full screened and I get an instant message on Pidgin, I don't know it. I never see any sort of indication that I have a message. It's just kind of frustrating when I forget about current conversations and I look back and, oh hello sorry for the 15 minute delayed reaction.

I just don't feel as though Gnome Shell is even remotely efficient unless you incorporate a dock into it - which I use the dock as a "currently running" task bar. I try to avoid using the dock, though, because I want to use gnome shell in its purest state.

I can definitely, definitely see improvements since I last used Gnome Shell. I'm just not too sure about it.

Innovative? Absolutely. The future? Not too sure about that one... But I'm going to keep my mind as open and not be too judgmental too soon. I'll see how things go in the next few days/weeks.

#535

Psumi said: Okay, I guess. But I meant try it on single-core without HT technology (IE: Pentium M Centrino)

with only 496 MB (512 MB) RAM and 32 MB ATI FireGL Card.

The guy who asked the original question asked specifically about an Atom based netbook and I was just replying to that.

#536

I have started to experience a problem in gnome-shell. It crashes when there are a lot of windows open anyone else getting the same?

#537

Psumi said: According to their FAQ/Myth thing there, they are having GNOME Shell by default (Nautilus is being revamped to have this happen.) Which means that since my T41 has issues with compositing (to the point where it stops functioning when a large window is opened like terminal) I will have to have a roundabout way of installing ubuntu gnome edition, mainly through the mini.iso as I do now.

That's supposing Ubuntu will adopt Gnome-Shell, which is not confirmed.

#538

OlyPerson said: The guy who asked the original question asked specifically about an Atom based netbook and I was just replying to that.

FYI--that is the stock spec for a ThinkPad T40 series. My ThinkPad T42P with 1.5G ram, 1.8MHZ cpu & a 128MB ATI FireGL card works very well.....

#539

autocrosser said: FYI--that is the stock spec for a ThinkPad T40 series. My ThinkPad T42P with 1.5G ram, 1.8MHZ cpu & a 128MB ATI FireGL card works very well.....

Yeah, but my T41 isn't that good. I was planning to upgrade its processor and RAM... but no one replied to that thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1382446

#540

Psumi said: Yeah, but my T41 isn't that good. I was planning to upgrade its processor and RAM... but no one replied to that thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1382446

I don't goto the Cafe very often (not my cup of tea :) )--- I rebuild ThinkPads & the value vs heat goes away after you go over 2GHZ---My T42P flies at 1.8 & stays very cool--Now, the ram is the factor with them---1.5G I consider the "sweet-spot"--cost-effective & really helps the unit....And yes, the 7500 Video you have is the looser there---there were 3 motherboards---7500, 9600 & FireGL (32MB, 64MB & 128MB)---The "P" ThinkPads were FireGL video & you can find the ATI 9600 video motherboards on eBay every so often--nice middle-of-the-road motherboards that will do more than the base 7500 boards..... There is also a special T43 cooler I use for the more basic units that work better for cooling....

#541

How do you guys handle tasks that require attention in GS?

For example - you have Pidgin open with 5 IMs. But you also have Firefox open that takes up the entire screen. The pidgin sounds drive you nuts so they're turned off.

How do you know when someone IMs you? I feel like there's something I should have that I'm forgetting, and it's driving me crazy not knowing when someone IMs me, forgetting about it, and realizing 10 mins later they're still waiting on my response.

#542

Roasted said: How do you guys handle tasks that require attention in GS?

For example - you have Pidgin open with 5 IMs. But you also have Firefox open that takes up the entire screen. The pidgin sounds drive you nuts so they're turned off.

How do you know when someone IMs you? I feel like there's something I should have that I'm forgetting, and it's driving me crazy not knowing when someone IMs me, forgetting about it, and realizing 10 mins later they're still waiting on my response. This is supposed to be taken care of via the notification system which was just put in (albeit in a broken state) a few days ago. My guess is the PPA you have doesn't yet have it

#543

Merk42 said: This is supposed to be taken care of via the notification system which was just put in (albeit in a broken state) a few days ago.

My guess is the PPA you have doesn't yet have it

Ah okay. I have the ricotz PPA for what it's worth. Do you know if there's any screenshots lurking around of this notification system?

#544

Roasted said: Ah okay. I have the ricotz PPA for what it's worth. Do you know if there's any screenshots lurking around of this notification system?

You can see a mockup here

The part on the lower right isn't implemented yet, which is why I haven't taken screenshots for the first post of this thread.

#545

Merk42 said: You can see a mockup here

The part on the lower right isn't implemented yet, which is why I haven't taken screenshots for the first post of this thread.

Hm. I kind of dig that.

I assume one of those icons in the lower right would allow me to click on it and therefore bring that window to front for me to respond to that person?

It sounds in essence like it would just be a smaller dock in the corner that works as a pop up.

EDIT - I'm very 50 50 on my thoughts so far. How do you guys feel about the constant zoom in/out when you want to go to your home directory or something? Doesn't that kind of screw with your eyes after being click happy for a minute or two?

#546

Here's my desktop --with a notification that I plugged in a Ethernet cable in the corner....couldn't get the notify that it was done in time......

You can see that Cairo-Dock works very well with the new notify......

#547

Yeah. I don't know... I feel like Gnome Shell should work fine without a dock - just like KDE works fine without a dock - just like Gnome 2.X works fine without a dock.

Perhaps the notification system I am currently lacking on my install is the final ticket to it, because I don't feel as though Gnome Shell in its current state is user friendly enough to quickly zap between windows that need attention. And I feel like adding a dock is just putting the band aid on the final piece.

Sure, docks are made to enhance the desktop - but I feel like a dock in place with Gnome Shell is like, something GS NEEDS to even be fully functional. That's just kind of a turn off. But again, GS has a long way to go and perhaps the notification system is something that is a decent add-on that users of all variants can benefit from.

#548

Roasted said: Yeah. I don't know... I feel like Gnome Shell should work fine without a dock - just like KDE works fine without a dock - just like Gnome 2.X works fine without a dock.

Perhaps the notification system I am currently lacking on my install is the final ticket to it, because I don't feel as though Gnome Shell in its current state is user friendly enough to quickly zap between windows that need attention. And I feel like adding a dock is just putting the band aid on the final piece.

Sure, docks are made to enhance the desktop - but I feel like a dock in place with Gnome Shell is like, something GS NEEDS to even be fully functional. That's just kind of a turn off. But again, GS has a long way to go and perhaps the notification system is something that is a decent add-on that users of all variants can benefit from.

I think the experience of GS is a LOT better with a dock, I use docky and have it split up three ways- I'll take a screenshot. Makes it so you don't have to zoom in and out a lot.

And I have that bottom notification system on my install now and it's definitely not working right yet I feel. So you'll probably have to wait a bit for that to start working right.

@autocrosser- Represent the PNorthwest! Best place in the world.

#549

OlyPerson said: I think the experience of GS is a LOT better with a dock, I use docky and have it split up three ways- I'll take a screenshot. Makes it so you don't have to zoom in and out a lot.

And I have that bottom notification system on my install now and it's definitely not working right yet I feel. So you'll probably have to wait a bit for that to start working right.

@autocrosser- Represent the PNorthwest! Best place in the world.

And consider this: GNOME Shell package is broken in Lucid!

#550

OlyPerson said: I think the experience of GS is a LOT better with a dock, I use docky and have it split up three ways- I'll take a screenshot. Makes it so you don't have to zoom in and out a lot.

And I have that bottom notification system on my install now and it's definitely not working right yet I feel. So you'll probably have to wait a bit for that to start working right.

@autocrosser- Represent the PNorthwest! Best place in the world.

Agreed---I've lived here (West Coast) most of my life & currently live in So.Ore (Eagle Point)--nice area--no LUG here, but am thinking about changing that......

#551

autocrosser said: Agreed---I've lived here (West Coast) most of my life & currently live in So.Ore (Eagle Point)--nice area--no LUG here, but am thinking about changing that......

Yeah I've lived up here my whole (short) life, although I just moved up to Seattle for college. Go UW!

#552

Roasted said: Has anybody been curious enough to slap 9.10 + the PPA of Gnome Shell on a standard 1.6ghz atom netbook and see how it holds up?

I've got one of the original Lenovo S10s with the original Atom and all the oldest Atom hardware, I'll go ahead and give Gnome-shell a test run on it and see how it holds up. I'll post back after trying it out for a while.

Btw, there is only one rather rare Atom model of like 10 total Atom models that is actually dual-core, so yes almost all Atoms are single-core.

@ autocrosser, OlyPerson: Rocky Mountain region all the way, esp. Colorado! ...Although I must admit to being a fan of Oregon and Washington as well. ;)

#553

Okay, well... it seems as if I do have the notification area. And while it's nice that I get a preview of what the users are saying, there is STILL no easy way to navigate to it. In the preview you guys showed me, it looked like there were icons in the corner and I would be able to click on the icon and blam - there's the IM. Is that how it's supposed to be? Because I still don't have it.

I assume I'm missing it, because the notification area without an easy way to make that window/application come to front to be primary is kind of useless.

#554

Roasted said: Okay, well... it seems as if I do have the notification area. And while it's nice that I get a preview of what the users are saying, there is STILL no easy way to navigate to it. In the preview you guys showed me, it looked like there were icons in the corner and I would be able to click on the icon and blam - there's the IM. Is that how it's supposed to be? Because I still don't have it.

I assume I'm missing it, because the notification area without an easy way to make that window/application come to front to be primary is kind of useless.

As I said:

Merk42 said: The part on the lower right isn't implemented yet, which is why I haven't taken screenshots for the first post of this thread.

#555

Merk42 said: As I said:

Hey thanks bud. That at least gives me some sort of hope this won't be a disaster.

But in all seriousness - if a few last things get implemented properly, this could be a really big hit. It's as-of-now stage isn't that appealing in terms of efficiency and productivity.

I look forward to use it after the notification system has been fully implemented. Is there any sort of time frame anybody knows about?

#556

ranch hand said:

You should still use "gksudo" instead of "sudo" for graphic apps.

I wasn't buying that, but I see the problem now.

It's not that you shouldn't use sudo for graphical apps, but that sudo doesn't reset $HOME to the home directory of the target user by default, which may cause files owned by root to be written to your home directory.

Using the 'H' option seems to take care of that, 'sudo -H *some_command*'. Of course this works for graphical apps if you use GDM as your display manager but you then have an issue if you use KDM or other display manager that starts the X session with overly restrictive options that will then require using gksudo/kdesudo to run the graphical app anyway or figure out some additional sudo option.

Later, Seeker

#557

Hmmm Gnome-shell does not seem to be very friendly on my UNR netbook, probably an issue with the 'netbook-launcher' app used in UNR. So I won't be able to test it on my netbook unless I reinstall... which I may eventually do but not right now.

#558

Have you guys found Gnome Shell to be more user friendly than 2.X? I'm really trying to get into this more but I feel so bottlenecked. :(

#559

Roasted said: Have you guys found Gnome Shell to be more user friendly than 2.X? I'm really trying to get into this more but I feel so bottlenecked. :(No. It wont run on my Lucid install at all and GS on my Karmic install is nothing short of useless.

#560

Roasted said: Have you guys found Gnome Shell to be more user friendly than 2.X? I'm really trying to get into this more but I feel so bottlenecked. :(

I find that with a dock it is more user friendly, but without one there is user-friendliness curve (like a learning curve?). Once you get used to it you can do everything alright but in the beginning some things seem illogical, like system preferences stuff only being available in the menu under your user name in the upper-right corner. The windows key is amazing to use.

Edit: Keep in mind that I almost never use my mouse, or rather trackpad, so I really like being able to easily launch applications and open files just by pressing the windows button and typing stuff in. Some people might like mice more.

#561

The only person that I know of that likes it, is qamelian. Not to say he's the only one, just the only person I can think of.

#562

I found it a bit difficult to work with and get used to. I've decided to wait until later on in cycle to try again. We are already in 2010 and 3.0 delivery is expected this year. I wonder if the shell interface and zeitgeist can go from alpha to final-polish by September.

#563

I do like it "but" it needs a dock to be complete (at least in my opinion)--so the basic usability idea won't work without mods in my case......

I do really tend to be a mouse/trackball person--and coming from MacOSX, a dock is where I tend to launch/config/use a good 80% of the time........

#564

Roasted said: Have you guys found Gnome Shell to be more user friendly than 2.X? I'm really trying to get into this more but I feel so bottlenecked. :(

Yeah, I do. I prefer Gnome-shell to the point where I literally hate going back to the standard Gnome 2.X interface for any reason. Gnome 2.X feels clumsy to me by comparison.

#565

autocrosser said: I do like it "but" it needs a dock to be complete (at least in my opinion)--so the basic usability idea won't work without mods in my case......

I do really tend to be a mouse/trackball person--and coming from MacOSX, a dock is where I tend to launch/config/use a good 80% of the time........ I can see where some people would prefer it with a dock, but I always find docks to be nothing but a waste of screen space for me. They just don't add anything that I want or need.

#566

Regenweald said: I found it a bit difficult to work with and get used to. I've decided to wait until later on in cycle to try again. We are already in 2010 and 3.0 delivery is expected this year. I wonder if the shell interface and zeitgeist can go from alpha to final-polish by September.

I agree. I'm not seeing how they're going to get some of the larger bugs and issues dealt with by them (ie. VM compatibility and compositing that some people don't want). I very interested to see where they're going from here, I wish they had somewhere where I could see future plans.

qamelian said: Yeah, I do. I prefer Gnome-shell to the point where I literally hate going back to the standard Gnome 2.X interface for any reason. Gnome 2.X feels clumsy to me by comparison.

Neither can I, I feel like 2.x is a hackfest almost, whereas *to me* GS feels very unified and simple.

qamelian said: I can see where some people would prefer it with a dock, but I always find docks to be nothing but a waste of screen space for me. They just don't add anything that I want or need.

Have you tried Docky with intellihide? I have a 10" screen and have no issue with screen space... well none beyond having a 10" screen to begin with.

#567

qamelian said: I can see where some people would prefer it with a dock, but I always find docks to be nothing but a waste of screen space for me. They just don't add anything that I want or need.

??

They give the ability to switch between active windows without getting dizzy from activating/deactivating the overlay. I know we have alt tab but, really? There needs to be a simpler way. Not only that but auto-hide with docks is a nice touch if you don't like it taking up space.

I hope the notification system is a real hit. Otherwise I can see people flocking to KDE and XFCE. KDE 4.4 beta (which I'm currently running as we speak) is mighty smexy.

#568

i dunno if this is the right place to put this, but when i tried using gnome shell it lags a lot when i try moving windows, and when i click on "activities" the small window thumbnails are all black and all the icons and text that are supposed to be on the left side are black

#569

libihero said: i dunno if this is the right place to put this,

but when i tried using gnome shell it lags a lot when i try moving windows, and when i click on "activities" the small window thumbnails are all black and all the icons and text that are supposed to be on the left side are black

You mean where you drag a window and it trails a bit behind when you drag it too fast? That's a normal function of mutter.

#570

ya well its not even me dragging it fast, its dragging at all

#571

OlyPerson said: I agree. I'm not seeing how they're going to get some of the larger bugs and issues dealt with by them (ie. VM compatibility and compositing that some people don't want). I very interested to see where they're going from here, I wish they had somewhere where I could see future plans.

Neither can I, I feel like 2.x is a hackfest almost, whereas *to me* GS feels very unified and simple.

Have you tried Docky with intellihide? I have a 10" screen and have no issue with screen space... well none beyond having a 10" screen to begin with. I really don't like Docky, or docks in general. They really don't contribute anything to usability for me. It's just my personal preference. If I absolutely had no choice and was forced to run a dock, though it would be AWN. Docky would come in second. If I had to use Cairo do, I'm afraid I'd give up completely and find a totally different and dockless desktop environment.

#572

Roasted said: ??

They give the ability to switch between active windows without getting dizzy from activating/deactivating the overlay. I know we have alt tab but, really? There needs to be a simpler way. Not only that but auto-hide with docks is a nice touch if you don't like it taking up space.

I hope the notification system is a real hit. Otherwise I can see people flocking to KDE and XFCE. KDE 4.4 beta (which I'm currently running as we speak) is mighty smexy. I use Alt-tab to switch between apps anyway. Even on "old" Gnome, I never used a window switcher. I don't expect anyone else to understand, but even when I tried running a dock, I could never find a reason to actually use it for anything...ever. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. :)

#573

qamelian said: I use Alt-tab to switch between apps anyway. Even on "old" Gnome, I never used a window switcher. I don't expect anyone else to understand, but even when I tried running a dock, I could never find a reason to actually use it for anything...ever. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. :)

Hey man, to each his own. I'm just not too sure about this whole GS thing. I feel like it's 1 step forward, 4 steps back.

For example, we use Ubuntu desktop as one of our servers at work right now. It's virtualized. Well, forget Gnome next time we upgrade. That's out of the picture. Now we have to consider XFCE or KDE running on our server virtually.

I don't know man. I want to like it. I'm trying really hard to justify it. But each time I just go back to KDE and it's like... "aww yes! I get this! This works!"

I don't plan to discontinue using GS... I just hope it gets a major, major overhaul within the next few months prior to final release.

#574

There are several people in here that says that G-S needs a dock to complete the circle.

What dock would you recommend? AWN - The most competent? Docky/Gnome-Do? Cairo? etc

#575

Tompalaz said: There are several people in here that says that G-S needs a dock to complete the circle.

What dock would you recommend? AWN - The most competent? Docky/Gnome-Do? Cairo? etc

Cairo. AWN is too buggy for my tastes, Docky doesn't have a AppMenu implementation.

#576

Roasted said: Hey man, to each his own. I'm just not too sure about this whole GS thing. I feel like it's 1 step forward, 4 steps back.

Which is actually how I felt about the move from Gnome 1.4 to Gnome 2.X. :)

For example, we use Ubuntu desktop as one of our servers at work right now. It's virtualized. Well, forget Gnome next time we upgrade. That's out of the picture. Now we have to consider XFCE or KDE running on our server virtually.

That makes no sense. Even when Gnome 3 is released, you aren't forced to use Gnome-shell. The FAQ linked to earlier clearly indicates that the old-style panels are still going to be available and so is Metacity for those who prefer/need them.

GNOME Panel

GNOME won't support the current panel and window manager anymore and I don't want to use GNOME Shell

The GNOME 2.x panel and Metacity (the window manager) will still be available. Downstream distributions such as Fedora, openSUSE and Ubuntu will have the option to include them in their distribution. You will be able to install them just as now you can install sawfish, compiz, etc inside your GNOME session.

I don't know man. I want to like it. I'm trying really hard to justify it. But each time I just go back to KDE and it's like... "aww yes! I get this! This works!"

We'll need to disagree on this one too. KDE 4 is absolutely crap on my systems. even the latest stable release is far to sluggish on my hardware and it is not friendly twoard the laptop I use at all. Gnome-shell runs slick and smooth on my aging Compaq Presario with its ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 GPU and 1GB of RAM. KDE by comparison drags on all fronts, and runs a minimum of 8 degrees hotter while idling. KDE is pretty, but it's unusable on both my main systems and most of the systems I've successfully tested Gnome-shell on. I'd rather cut off my own right arm than spend a day working in KDE.

I don't plan to discontinue using GS... I just hope it gets a major, major overhaul within the next few months prior to final release.

I expect you'll see a lot of changes in the coming months. Things are constantly being reexamined and fine-tuned by the developers. I've been using Gnome-shell exclusively on my production laptop for months and I absolutely will not go back to working without it unless something I truly find to be better comes along. At the moment, there really isn't anything better that suits my needs.

#577

I have recently been trying out gnome shell. Until I tried it out I thought people were just complaining because it is different and new. Now that I have tried it out I don't really like it. I find it needs a dock just to be useable. Normally I don't like to use a dock as I do not find they add to functionality. I can't really see how an overhaul will help that much as in my opinion the design is flawed (I hope I am wrong). Something does need to be done though as Gnome is really lagging behind the competition as it is, but I am not sure this is the way to go. KDE keeps getting better and better. I had a play with Windows 7 the other day in the store and even Microsoft seems to be getting there act together (well at least relative to Vista). Not only does it look good it seems pretty responsive. Mac's look good and work well for people that like them. Gnome on the other hand is a bit stuck in the past, but is this the future?

#578

qamelian said:

We'll need to disagree on this one too. KDE 4 is absolutely crap on my systems. even the latest stable release is far to sluggish on my hardware and it is not friendly twoard the laptop I use at all. Gnome-shell runs slick and smooth on my aging Compaq Presario with its ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 GPU and 1GB of RAM. KDE by comparison drags on all fronts, and runs a minimum of 8 degrees hotter while idling. KDE is pretty, but it's unusable on both my main systems and most of the systems I've successfully tested Gnome-shell on. I'd rather cut off my own right arm than spend a day working in KDE.

I really, really would like to see one of your systems. I hate to take a stab here but I have installed KDE4 on countless systems, and NONE have been such a traumatizing experience as you describe. Ever. Even Pentium 4 512mb RAM systems with integrated graphics. Each one has worked great. *sigh*

Good tip about the Gnome panels though. I was aware that they were going to be phased out. In fact I could have sworn I remember panels POSSIBLY being an option for the first Ubuntu release, then gone afterwards. Guess enough people complained.... :P

#579

Psumi said: Cairo. AWN is too buggy for my tastes, Docky doesn't have a AppMenu implementation.

I tried Cairo dock. Ooh, there were far too many options and the configuration tool where not that nice.

I'll try something else.

#580

I find Cairo feels like it's in a constant beta stage. Lots of bugs, ridiculous control panel.

AWN is a little more stable, even in its alpha/beta stage (whichever one they released recently that FINALLY has dual monitor support).

Then there's Docky. Simple, stable, and pretty damn awesome.

#581

Roasted said: I really, really would like to see one of your systems. I hate to take a stab here but I have installed KDE4 on countless systems, and NONE have been such a traumatizing experience as you describe. Ever. Even Pentium 4 512mb RAM systems with integrated graphics. Each one has worked great. *sigh*

Good tip about the Gnome panels though. I was aware that they were going to be phased out. In fact I could have sworn I remember panels POSSIBLY being an option for the first Ubuntu release, then gone afterwards. Guess enough people complained.... :P I know this is not aimed at me but I have one install off Mandriva that runs some KDE version and I had Kubuntu 10.04 on here for 3 days.

My box is described in sig. KDE runs slower than vista did on this box in Kubuntu. The Mandriva is 2009-1 with your choice of Lxde, Gnome or KDE. KDE on it is disgustingly slower than the other 2.

These are not effected by my dislike of KDE. The Vista comparison was done when I first was converting and had vista on a drive that had to be swapped out to put in the Linux drive. I tried KDE first because I had seen it before.

In Mandriva I can, for instance, boot, login and log out of Lxde, boot and get to the login screen and set it for gnome in the same time that it takes to boot, login and have a working desktop in KDE. I am sorry that I timed that months ago and threw out the sheet with the results. I am not doing it again as I no longer even boot to the KDE on Mandriva.

#582

ranch hand said: I know this is not aimed at me but I have one install off Mandriva that runs some KDE version and I had Kubuntu 10.04 on here for 3 days.

My box is described in sig. KDE runs slower than vista did on this box in Kubuntu. The Mandriva is 2009-1 with your choice of Lxde, Gnome or KDE. KDE on it is disgustingly slower than the other 2.

These are not effected by my dislike of KDE. The Vista comparison was done when I first was converting and had vista on a drive that had to be swapped out to put in the Linux drive. I tried KDE first because I had seen it before.

In Mandriva I can, for instance, boot, login and log out of Lxde, boot and get to the login screen and set it for gnome in the same time that it takes to boot, login and have a working desktop in KDE. I am sorry that I timed that months ago and threw out the sheet with the results. I am not doing it again as I no longer even boot to the KDE on Mandriva.

You had sluggish results booting a KDE install on a quad core?

o.O

really?

..........

#583

Yup. Always.

And then, to add insult to injury, I end up with KDE. That, of coarse, is the result of my undoubted lack of taste and apparent incompatibility with KDE. I just don't like it when I get there.

I try to have KDE on here to show folks because some will be more attracted to it than the others. I also have it on my "loaner" usb external so that folks can try it on their own box. I get on them long enough to keep the buggers updated and be sure they work and get out, usually with veins throbbing in my neck and forehead (basically I avoid KDE to avoid having a stroke).

#584

ranch hand said: Yup. Always.

And then, to add insult to injury, I end up with KDE. That, of coarse, is the result of my undoubted lack of taste and apparent incompatibility with KDE. I just don't like it when I get there.

I try to have KDE on here to show folks because some will be more attracted to it than the others. I also have it on my "loaner" usb external so that folks can try it on their own box. I get on them long enough to keep the buggers updated and be sure they work and get out, usually with veins throbbing in my neck and forehead (basically I avoid KDE to avoid having a stroke).

I don't understand how I can have comparable speeds with KDE and Gnome 2.X on a system with 512 RAM and a Pentuim 4, while you have trouble on every higher end system you use with KDE. o.O

#585

Roasted said: I really, really would like to see one of your systems. I hate to take a stab here but I have installed KDE4 on countless systems, and NONE have been such a traumatizing experience as you describe. Ever. Even Pentium 4 512mb RAM systems with integrated graphics. Each one has worked great. *sigh*

Good tip about the Gnome panels though. I was aware that they were going to be phased out. In fact I could have sworn I remember panels POSSIBLY being an option for the first Ubuntu release, then gone afterwards. Guess enough people complained.... :P

Which system would you like to see? I have access to over 100 test boxes scattered around the sites of various clients for whom I provide support. KDE works fine on some of them, but not on others. At a rough estimate, I'd say it works smoothly on roughly 40% of my clients test boxes. It runs like crap on both my aging laptop and on my Phenom X3 desktop. The Phenom has an ATI Radeon 2400HD GPU and 3GB of RAM. KDE is jerky...GS is smooth.

I used to be a big KDE fan, but honestly, I haven't seen a release on any distro that I would call stable after 2.2. The 3.X series is what converted me to a Gnome user.

Anyway, one of the nicest things about Linux in my opinion is that you really can find a way to make it fit almost anyone. If KDE is what you like and it works well for you, that's cool. I just can get any work done on it, while the increase in my productivity on Gnome-shell is actually measurable. :)

#586

qamelian said: Which system would you like to see? I have access to over 100 test boxes scattered around the sites of various clients for whom I provide support. KDE works fine on some of them, but not on others. At a rough estimate, I'd say it works smoothly on roughly 40% of my clients test boxes. It runs like crap on both my aging laptop and on my Phenom X3 desktop. The Phenom has an ATI Radeon 2400HD GPU and 3GB of RAM. KDE is jerky...GS is smooth.

I used to be a big KDE fan, but honestly, I haven't seen a release on any distro that I would call stable after 2.2. The 3.X series is what converted me to a Gnome user. It might have to do with your ati card, have you tried with the open source drivers?

#587

qamelian said: while the increase in my productivity on Gnome-shell is actually measurable. :)

I wish I could say the same.

GS is what drove me to KDE... fortunately I know if GS lands and it sucks, I at least have a solid option that works for me.

Likewise, I work in a school district, where there is roughly 1500 systems. I certainly didn't install Kubuntu on all of them, since we are (sadly) an all windows (on desktops) network. But I wouldn't be surprised if I installed Kubuntu on at least a couple dozen systems in my 1.5 years working there. Maybe not quite 100 like you quoted, but certainly more than 30.

The sad thing is, the machines I installed Kubuntu on were older rigs that aren't used in production anymore, such as that 512mb RAM P4 one I spoke about earlier. So it's not like I have a triple or quad core to throw at them... they're all old boxes ready to get kicked out of the building, and yet they work just fine. I won't be unfair here, if I activate compositing on those boxes (some of them have awful intel integrated cards) then I would no doubt have slower load times, slower launch times for applications, etc. But once I de-activate compositing, or only activate compositing on machines with a somewhat decent graphics card, then I notice a decent speed improvement - a speed improvement that rivals Gnome 2.X (I install Ubuntu on about as many machines as I've installed Kubuntu).

I never had GS lag on me. GS has been pretty consistent in terms of speed. I've had a ton of crashes, in fact some crashes happened when I was idle (leaning back in the chair watching TV for 5 minutes+ and blam, GS crashed). But it's to be expected with its current testing stage. It's completely unfair for me to tell alpha software that they're unstable. :P

I don't mean to be a smartass with what I say, but there's no possibility that KDE is slow on all of those machines. There's graphic card drivers that could pertain to its lag among other things. But there's no way KDE sucks on all of your machines and works fine on my 50+ machines. There's a curve ball to the situation, and "KDE is just slow" isn't the answer. If it was slow, it'd be slow everywhere. But it's not. I have 13 second boot times with Kubuntu on my work laptop - almost on par with Ubuntu on the same machine. I say almost because I clocked Ubuntu at 15 seconds.

Like I said before, I'm a 5 year old Gnome user and a KDE user of only a few months (maybe 3 months?). I'm trying to like GS. I find myself digging for a way to say "This. I like this." But each time I'm just left frustrated with the slow speed I'm able to accomplish small tasks.

Your opinion gives me some gleam of hope with GS, in terms of maybe it's just me being frustrated and not giving it enough time to really shine. I'm going to install it on a spare machine of mine, since I just put Kubuntu on my work laptop and I need (not to sound like a smartass) stability so I can get work done. A work laptop isn't really the proper grounds to test alpha software. :P :P

I look forward to playing around with the notification system. I feel like that's the one piece of the puzzle that'll make or break GS entirely. But after all, we're talking about Gnome here. If anybody can pull it off, it's them. Let's hope...

#588

Roasted said:

Like I said before, I'm a 5 year old Gnome user and a KDE user of only a few months (maybe 3 months?). I'm trying to like GS. I find myself digging for a way to say "This. I like this." But each time I'm just left frustrated with the slow speed I'm able to accomplish small tasks.

Pretty good writing skills for a five year old I must say!

On a serious note, what can't you do as fast? Which small tasks?

#589

OlyPerson said: Pretty good writing skills for a five year old I must say!

On a serious note, what can't you do as fast? Which small tasks?

When I wrote that, I had to think twice, but I figured I'd let it. :P

It's not that GS is a bad idea. It just takes away the quick fundamentals behind multitasking. I honestly think the notification system will help in this department, but I'll speak my opinion on it anyway.

When I get an instant message, but firefox is full screened, how do I know? The answer is, I don't know. You don't know when a window needs attention.

If the notification system operates in a fashion that a dock would, GS just might work out very nicely. The overlay is very attractive, it's speed is consistent from machine to machine, new or old. It's application system that was changed to accomodate ALL programs into 1 menu alphabetically I really like. I like how they did away with the "more" button and made the entire "Applications" menu one giant button. All very positive and much needed changes.

I just hope the notification system does the last thing that drives me insane. It's not only a pain in the *** to have to activate the overlay, click on the IM, then the overlay zooms out, but it's also a pain to not know when I get that IM.

But like I said, if the notification system resembles a dock, this might be a hit.

What I'd like to see in the notification system is some sort of configurability as well.

I want to have the option to show the preview of the message I just got or not. There are times I might be getting an instant message from one person, but I don't want it to be public for all eyes to see that are around my computer via notifications. Sometimes I just want the option to have a little icon bounce up and down to notify me I got a message, instead of showing me the ACTUAL message. I'd also like to be able to click that icon, and the instant message pop up as the primary window.

In essence, like I probably said 3 or 4 times now, a small, very functional "dock-like" system.

If GS can fit this bill, they just might have me sold. But ALT-Tabing, while very nice, is not the answer. Nor is the answer "oh just activate the overlay and click on the IM." I LOVE the overlay. I use it in KDE all the time. But sometimes I just need to see that flashing icon so I can click it and blam - I can do my thing accordingly.

Simple things, but they're a big deal to me - and I'm sure they'd be a big deal to other users. That's actually the argument I hear among the users I showed GS - all of which gave it a thumbs down. I'm sure if something like this is implemented, it might just be a smexy and rather functional desktop, and something those same users would thereby approve over.

#590

Roasted said: If the notification system operates in a fashion that a dock would, GS just might work out very nicely. The overlay is very attractive, it's speed is consistent from machine to machine, new or old. It's application system that was changed to accomodate ALL programs into 1 menu alphabetically I really like. I like how they did away with the "more" button and made the entire "Applications" menu one giant button. All very positive and much needed changes.

In my opinion the alphabetical list was a bad move, makes finding something if you don't exactly remember the name very difficult and windows-ish.

I think the notification system SHOULD be able to do all that stuff you said when it's done, I hope. It's a really new thing, it's been on my GS for less than a week still so we'll see where it goes.

On thing I'd like to see a much better implementation of that everyone overlooks is the sidebar. Why couldn't that be fixed up and be used as something like a dock?

#591

OlyPerson said: In my opinion the alphabetical list was a bad move, makes finding something if you don't exactly remember the name very difficult and windows-ish.

I think the notification system SHOULD be able to do all that stuff you said when it's done, I hope. It's a really new thing, it's been on my GS for less than a week still so we'll see where it goes.

On thing I'd like to see a much better implementation of that everyone overlooks is the sidebar. Why couldn't that be fixed up and be used as something like a dock?

Well, the one thing I always thought that sucked about Gnome was there was never a real method to organize your programs that were newly installed. There were times I'd download a program and it'd be under system tools. Other times internet. Other times preferences. And OTHER times administration. Very poor way to organize applications. This may not entirely be Gnome's fault, but even still, it's a problem that pissed me off since day 1 on Gnome, yet was non existent (for some reason) in KDE.

But I have an obvious question to ask to the GS developers - why make alphabetizing mandatory? Why not give us the option?

This is Linux. Land of customizing. It'd be nice to have an option to have the sub categories OR alphabetizing the menu like it currently is.

Question for you OlyPerson - is your notification system not entirely implemented? I have it too, but it's kind of lackluster in its current state. Also - anybody running GS on a dual screen setup? The notification system is weird on dual screen setups....

#592

better alphabetical than no order at all .

#593

Roasted said: Well, the one thing I always thought that sucked about Gnome was there was never a real method to organize your programs that were newly installed. There were times I'd download a program and it'd be under system tools. Other times internet. Other times preferences. And OTHER times administration. Very poor way to organize applications. This may not entirely be Gnome's fault, but even still, it's a problem that pissed me off since day 1 on Gnome, yet was non existent (for some reason) in KDE.

But I have an obvious question to ask to the GS developers - why make alphabetizing mandatory? Why not give us the option?

This is Linux. Land of customizing. It'd be nice to have an option to have the sub categories OR alphabetizing the menu like it currently is.

Question for you OlyPerson - is your notification system not entirely implemented? I have it too, but it's kind of lackluster in its current state. Also - anybody running GS on a dual screen setup? The notification system is weird on dual screen setups....

How about this: Have "Applications" open a menu where the default selection is "All" and it displays them all (obviously) and then under all you have the other options? I'll try and draw a picture but OOo just crashed- which has been an issue in GS for me.

Oh and it's definitely not fully implemented, all it shows now is a little indicator that you can't do anything with. Also, notifications with more than one line don't display well.

#594

OlyPerson said: How about this: Have "Applications" open a menu where the default selection is "All" and it displays them all (obviously) and then under all you have the other options? I'll try and draw a picture but OOo just crashed- which has been an issue in GS for me.

Oh and it's definitely not fully implemented, all it shows now is a little indicator that you can't do anything with. Also, notifications with more than one line don't display well.

Yeah - I agree. There's quite a few options that could be integrated here. We all know that there's no single design that will please anybody. I mean just look at the personal preferences from me to you to other users here. If we could get several options available, that'd be just plain fricken awesome.

Can you imagine something like... the GS Control Panel? Which controls a lot of basic functions of how GS functions and how the notification system works?

#595

Roasted said: Yeah - I agree. There's quite a few options that could be integrated here. We all know that there's no single design that will please anybody. I mean just look at the personal preferences from me to you to other users here. If we could get several options available, that'd be just plain fricken awesome.

Can you imagine something like... the GS Control Panel? Which controls a lot of basic functions of how GS functions and how the notification system works?

That would be awesome if something like that was implemented, I'd like there to be one place to be able to configure all of that. They could make it like the Compiz settings manager or something like that.

What do you think about the sidebar? What do you think they should do with that?

#596

OlyPerson said: That would be awesome if something like that was implemented, I'd like there to be one place to be able to configure all of that. They could make it like the Compiz settings manager or something like that.

What do you think about the sidebar? What do you think they should do with that?

I'd like to see the sidebar act as a side-loaded dock. Perhaps it could be split into 2 sections with a small divider. The top half (or whichever) could be quick launch icons to launch firefox, thunderbird, or whatever other applications - in the exact same manner you would have had with adding quick launch icons to the top panel of Gnome's 2.X series. That way you at least retain similar functionality of the previous 2.X series. Then the bottom half could be a "dock" section which houses icons of currently active applications.

Check it... you set it up like that and say you have Pidgin running with 5 IMs. You click on the Pidgin icon and blam - Pidgin buddy list + 5 IMs open for you to navigate through - OR (following through with more dock-like functionality) you can right click the Pidgin icon and see the 5 IMs listed there - allowing you to single click on any of them and bring up ONLY the IM you want.

This of course, would be an auto hide thing (with the option of having it staticly mounted). If this was implemented in that manner, it would most definitely add the efficiency of multitasking to GS - something it severely lacks at the moment. The overlay should NOT, absolutely NOT be "the" method to switch from window to window - but meerly a way to manage where windows are organized in certain workspaces.

#597

Roasted said: I'd like to see the sidebar act as a side-loaded dock. Perhaps it could be split into 2 sections with a small divider. The top half (or whichever) could be quick launch icons to launch firefox, thunderbird, or whatever other applications - in the exact same manner you would have had with adding quick launch icons to the top panel of Gnome's 2.X series. That way you at least retain similar functionality of the previous 2.X series. Then the bottom half could be a "dock" section which houses icons of currently active applications.

Check it... you set it up like that and say you have Pidgin running with 5 IMs. You click on the Pidgin icon and blam - Pidgin buddy list + 5 IMs open for you to navigate through - OR (following through with more dock-like functionality) you can right click the Pidgin icon and see the 5 IMs listed there - allowing you to single click on any of them and bring up ONLY the IM you want.

This of course, would be an auto hide thing (with the option of having it staticly mounted). If this was implemented in that manner, it would most definitely add the efficiency of multitasking to GS - something it severely lacks at the moment. The overlay should NOT, absolutely NOT be "the" method to switch from window to window - but meerly a way to manage where windows are organized in certain workspaces.

I completely agree. I think the sidebar would work very well with something like that. Maybe have a hover-over thumbnail image of the window on the side dock? Kind of like what Win7 has for things on its bottom bar but on the side.

One other thing I really dislike about GS that I've forgotten to mention until now has to do with alt-tab. When you have, say, two Evince windows open at one time and you alt-tab you can't really go between the two. Yes, when you're hovering over it you can use alt+` but what if your current window is Evince and then you have to cycle through all the other windows to hover over Evince again. I wish each window had its own icon in alt+tab.

#598

OlyPerson said: I completely agree. I think the sidebar would work very well with something like that. Maybe have a hover-over thumbnail image of the window on the side dock? Kind of like what Win7 has for things on its bottom bar but on the side.

One other thing I really dislike about GS that I've forgotten to mention until now has to do with alt-tab. When you have, say, two Evince windows open at one time and you alt-tab you can't really go between the two. Yes, when you're hovering over it you can use alt+` but what if your current window is Evince and then you have to cycle through all the other windows to hover over Evince again. I wish each window had its own icon in alt+tab.

This might be getting a little crazy, but I'd always wanted an option to bind an extra button on my mouse to activate an ALT-Tab like menu, except instead of ALT-Tabbing through the icons, the menu is clickable.

Click hot key = activates menu. Click hot key 2x = deactivates menu.

While activated, I can click through it accordingly.

This isn't a GS thing. Just an in general thing I always wanted to see.

#599

Roasted said: This might be getting a little crazy, but I'd always wanted an option to bind an extra button on my mouse to activate an ALT-Tab like menu, except instead of ALT-Tabbing through the icons, the menu is clickable.

Click hot key = activates menu. Click hot key 2x = deactivates menu.

While activated, I can click through it accordingly.

This isn't a GS thing. Just an in general thing I always wanted to see.

I think you could do that now, there are a lot of bindings you can do already. I almost never use a mouse so I wouldn't really notice that.

I'm excited for configuration options to come to GS whenever that will be.

#600

Just wondering, is it already possible or will be possible in the future to remove the "Recent Files" or "Recent Documents" from the overlay? I don't like people knowing what I used last.

#601

Psumi said: Just wondering, is it already possible or will be possible in the future to remove the "Recent Files" or "Recent Documents" from the overlay? I don't like people knowing what I used last.

I don't think it is possible yet, I've tried looking for it a couple times. Definitely need to get that working.

#602

There have been several requests for that---not possible yet---but you are not the only one---I asked on the list about that a couple of months ago & got "we will be doing that...."

As for right now---I delete the recent files in "normal" Gnome Panel before I start a GS session.....

#603

autocrosser said: There have been several requests for that---not possible yet---but you are not the only one---I asked on the list about that a couple of months ago & got "we will be doing that...."

As for right now---I delete the recent files in "normal" Gnome Panel before I start a GS session.....

Has any non-coder requested something in the GNOME Shell mailing list that actually has gotten implemented?

My impression from the mailing list has been

  • Person has idea for feature FOO
  • Other people like the idea for feature FOO
  • GNOME dev comes in and says "well that doesn't fit with our vision, we want BAR" and then the thread dies
#604

Merk42 said: Has any non-coder requested something in the GNOME Shell mailing list that actually has gotten implemented?

My impression from the mailing list has been

  • Person has idea for feature FOO
  • Other people like the idea for feature FOO
  • GNOME dev comes in and says "well that doesn't fit with our vision, we want BAR" and then the thread dies

Well, yes and no.

I was on the mailing list because when I first saw GS there were several things I thought everybody else would jump on, but I wanted to do my part as an open source fanatic and offer suggestions. My first suggestion was when the "more" button was still around, next to applications.

I posted on the mailing list and said it'd be much easier for users to utilize the entire "Applications" section as a single button, instead of having the little "more" button as the means of opening additional applications. The response I got back was not snobby or anything, but it was something along the lines of "Well, unfortunately that button has gotten smaller." That's the day I put Kubuntu on my computer. :P

However, to my surprise I got GS installed via PPA about 7 or 8 weeks later and blam - no more "more" button - the entire applications bar was one giant button.

Not to mention, other things have been added/tweaked that I really like. Seeing what has changed in the last 2 months gives me positive reinforcement that GS might be a true home run, especially considering how (relatively) stable it is now and the fact that there's still months to go in development.

So to answer your question, yes I did get a reaction like that - but in the end it was changed anyway.

#605

Roasted said: I don't mean to be a smartass with what I say, but there's no possibility that KDE is slow on all of those machines. There's graphic card drivers that could pertain to its lag among other things. But there's no way KDE sucks on all of your machines and works fine on my 50+ machines. There's a curve ball to the situation, and "KDE is just slow" isn't the answer. If it was slow, it'd be slow everywhere. But it's not. I have 13 second boot times with Kubuntu on my work laptop - almost on par with Ubuntu on the same machine. I say almost because I clocked Ubuntu at 15 seconds.

You're wrong. It does suck on all those machines. I'm not some noob who doesn't know what to check or troubleshoot. This is my profession and it is something I have developed a reputation for doing well. The affected machines are running a variety of hardware configurations and there are many potential causes. In some cases, I've been able to alleviate performance problems by disabling core pieces of KDE functionality. Which piece needs to be disabled varies from one set of machines to the next. One some machines, performance is just poor. Period. As I mentioned before it works fine on most of the 100+ test boxes, but is totally unacceptable on about 40% of them. I really don't care what you believe. Those are the facts. I can't speak for the systems you administer, but I know the ones I handle for my clients inside and out.

#606

qamelian said: You're wrong. It does suck on all those machines. I'm not some noob who doesn't know what to check or troubleshoot. This is my profession and it is something I have developed a reputation for doing well. The affected machines are running a variety of hardware configurations and there are many potential causes. In some cases, I've been able to alleviate performance problems by disabling core pieces of KDE functionality. Which piece needs to be disabled varies from one set of machines to the next. One some machines, performance is just poor. Period. As I mentioned before it works fine on most of the 100+ test boxes, but is totally unacceptable on about 40% of them. I really don't care what you believe. Those are the facts. I can't speak for the systems you administer, but I know the ones I handle for my clients inside and out.

Likewise, I also:

-Work in IT. -Have a decent history in Linux. -Have installed KDE on a ton of systems. -Haven't had the issues you had.

Sorry that you didn't have the same luck, but KDE isn't as bad as your results indicate - I can tell you that much. Most of my installs were even on older hardware, and even still I didn't have those problems. Of course I had the occasional weird issue, but not something as consistent as 50% of the systems being "slow."

Sorry to be so blunt - but I call it like it is.

Back on topic of GS now...

#607

Merk42 said: Has any non-coder requested something in the GNOME Shell mailing list that actually has gotten implemented?

My impression from the mailing list has been

  • Person has idea for feature FOO
  • Other people like the idea for feature FOO
  • GNOME dev comes in and says "well that doesn't fit with our vision, we want BAR" and then the thread dies

Has any *coder* requested something in the mailing list that actually has gotten implemented?

Could it be that the problem lies with the notion of limiting oneself to *requesting* people to implement arbitrary features of your liking or habit that may or may not fit into their vision for their project, rather than implementing them yourself, or getting/paying someone to implement them for you, on top of the open code and frameworks that the project has provided?

Having a clear, persistent vision for a project, and saying "no" if that's what it takes to preserve that vision, however out of fashion it may be these days, is a good thing, especially if your system is one that excels at accommodating disagreement, by providing people who disagree with the same tools and resources as those who don't to produce alternatives to their liking, while still benefiting from the work they disagree with.

#608

23meg said: Has any *coder* requested something in the mailing list that actually has gotten implemented?

Could it be that the problem lies with the notion of limiting oneself to *requesting* people to implement arbitrary features of your liking or habit that may or may not fit into their vision for their project, rather than implementing them yourself, or getting/paying someone to implement them for you, on top of the open code and frameworks that the project has provided?

Having a clear, persistent vision for a project, and saying "no" if that's what it takes to preserve that vision, however out of fashion it may be these days, is a good thing, especially if your system is one that excels at accommodating disagreement, by providing people who disagree with the same tools and resources as those who don't to produce alternatives to their liking, while still benefiting from the work they disagree with.

To be honest, even though you explained that well, I don't feel a point or real explanation in those paragraphs. It may be just me though.

#609

Psumi said: To be honest, even though you explained that well, I don't feel a point or real explanation in those paragraphs. It may be just me though.

Yup, it is just you. Glad I am not the only one with comprehension problems on occasion.

#610

23meg said:

Having a clear, persistent vision for a project, and saying "no" if that's what it takes to preserve that vision, however out of fashion it may be these days, is a good thing, especially if your system is one that excels at accommodating disagreement, by providing people who disagree with the same tools and resources as those who don't to produce alternatives to their liking, while still benefiting from the work they disagree with.

Your absolutely right, and being in a capitalistic society I should have no grip with your contention. However as it stands, in order for open source to work and be successful it must allow for co-operation off all ideas no matter how small.

The notion that ideas should be handed down through a hierarchy like that of an old news paper business are nearing their end, as newer system of global brainstorming are emerging. Websites such as digg and reddit have shown and proven this functionality.

#611

LiquidMeson said: as it stands, in order for open source to work and be successful it must allow for co-operation off all ideas no matter how small.

I agree, and none of what I said contradicts that.

Maintaining a compatible branch of GNOME Shell with your changes to parts of its design that you disagree with (maybe even using the extensions system), while still participating in its development discourse and contributing to the project, would be a good example of cooperation *plus* disagreement. Limiting your participation to feature requests, and crying foul when your requests find no response because they're incompatible with the vision of the project (I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular; it's just a common pattern), is a bad example.

LiquidMeson said: The notion that ideas should be handed down through a hierarchy like that of an old news paper business are nearing their end, as newer system of global brainstorming are emerging. Websites such as digg and reddit have shown and proven this functionality.

I would be more cautious when arguing that a particular system is completely replacing an old one, as opposed to displacing, changing and mixing with it, to different degrees in different areas, and when comparing Digg and Reddit to software development discourse. We're surely going through radical changes in public discourse and the way information is shared, but the new paradigm has its own downsides, and its effects are not global, and don't apply to every field in the same way.

#612

LiquidMeson said: However as it stands, in order for open source to work and be successful it must allow for co-operation off all ideas no matter how small.

co-operation and accommodation are well and good but remember a hippopotamus is a horse designed by a committee . There needs to be a defining vision or the result is chaos . You have a very small view of "open source" , we don't all need to co-operate on an single project that is why for instance there isn't one media player there are many .

#613

23meg said:

I would be more cautious when arguing that a particular system is completely replacing an old one, as opposed to displacing, changing and mixing with it

Merely trying to hammer in the point. There never will be an either or.

ronacc said:

a hippopotamus is a horse designed by a committee

ns quote. however a committee is paid to be involved and therefore must leave a mark. Where as in open source, those who are interested are involved, and their mark is a solid product.

my grip with GNOME Shell, was that for such a large project that inevitably effects a large group of people, only a small subset of people were able decide upon the resulting image. Yes I recognize that these people are incredibly good at what they do, and are far better programmers then most. However for such a project all stages should allow for input, even if that input is in theory/media/etc and not literal code.

I'm talking about broadening the input beyond just those who can make commits and branches. Collected discussion should decide the outcome. And while the chaos of such input might be harder to work with, the outcome is far more beneficial to a greater amount of people.

Food for thought: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBkWt-PXPJo Full video: http://www.mininova.org/tor/3040794

Its not just the Internet or open-source, its that these pieces allowed people to participate. Made it easy to participate. People who never though they could contribute before have now helped to make websites such as wikipedia successful. A website now fundamental to the Internet and human knowledge.

People have allows cared, they were just never able to show it before.

#614

The reason I said "non coder" was merely from the mailing list it's difficult for me to distinguish "person with an idea that knows how to code" versus "person with an idea that know how to code that does so directly for GNOME".

I'm also not complaining just because MY ideas weren't implemented. I think you know that though.

If the devs want to have some main vision for the shell fine. But if it won't be any different from what they came up with during the hackfest a few years ago, what is the point of the mailing list? I had the impression the mailing list was a place to share ideas, not just to report bugs.

#615

Has anyone else's GS been crashing a lot in the last day or so? Mine's crashed about 5 times- nothing serious but I had to use gnome-shell --replace to bring it back. Especially with anything with OOo, but a couple times it's crashed while doing nothing.

By crashed I mean every window disappears and only my background shows, then when the windows come back I have no windows manager, only the windows.

#616

OlyPerson said: Has anyone else's GS been crashing a lot in the last day or so? Mine's crashed about 5 times- nothing serious but I had to use gnome-shell --replace to bring it back. Especially with anything with OOo, but a couple times it's crashed while doing nothing.

By crashed I mean every window disappears and only my background shows, then when the windows come back I have no windows manager, only the windows.

Yeah. As a result I haven't used GS in the last day or two. It happens all of the time to me.

Twice now I've had it crash while sitting idle. It'd be booted up and I'd be working on something else for about 5 mins. Something catches my eye, I look at the computer, blam - it crashed.

I'm not using it until I see more updates roll in. Then I'll fire it up again. :P

#617

I just tried gnome shell on my laptop. Previously I had only tried in on my desktop, which has two monitors. It works a bit better, visually, with one monitors. Two monitors is hideous. Still along way off the KDE benchmark though. One thing I did notice, which I am guessing has already been commented on, is alt-tab goes between all applications not just the ones on the current desktop. This seems like a very poor choice and kind of defeats the purpose of having desktops in the first place. In some sense we may as well just open up all applications on a single desktop and alt-tab through them.

#618

Yeah - dual monitors are awful with GS right now. But before you can master the art of dual screen setups, you must master single screen setups. I'm sure better support will come - just think about how many people use dual screen setups....

#619

A bit of a tweak to the way workspaces are viewed has been put into GIT. I've updated the first post to illustrate the options and slight tweak to the add/remove workspace buttons.

#620

Merk42 said: A bit of a tweak to the way workspaces are viewed has been put into GIT. I've updated the first post to illustrate the options and slight tweak to the add/remove workspace buttons.

Ooo, I like that a lot, and I think it is the first instance of user configuration options in GS, no? Well kind of...

#621

Merk42 said: A bit of a tweak to the way workspaces are viewed has been put into GIT. I've updated the first post to illustrate the options and slight tweak to the add/remove workspace buttons.

wow, thats neat! I like when there are updates that I, as a user can see what they are doing. Not just under-the-hood stuff

#622

dunno if anyone noticed, (also I didn't go through all the post of this thread) but the native gnome-shell package has been sorted out, its dependencies have been resolved.

Though I am still unable to use it, has anyone been able to use the native package?

#623

I just installed gnome-shell from the repositories, and have it running with no problems so far.

#624

cariboo907 said: I just installed gnome-shell from the repositories, and have it running with no problems so far.

Yeah, the one in the repos seems to be much more stable than the one in the PPA that I'm using, it's been crashing a lot.

waspbr said: dunno if anyone noticed, (also I didn't go through all the post of this thread) but the native gnome-shell package has been sorted out, its dependencies have been resolved.

Though I am still unable to use it, has anyone been able to use the native package?

You typed "gnome-shell --replace" into the terminal after installing it, right?

#625

yep,

gnome-shell --replace

I even tried a reboot to see if it helped, next I killed gnome-panels but no cake, going to try a quick terminal run and post the output

Error: couldn't find RGB GLX visual or fbconfig
Failed to start shell
Cannot register the panel shell: there is already one running.
Window manager warning: Screen 0 on display ":0.0" already has a window manager; try using the --replace option to replace the current window manager.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/bin/gnome-shell", line 278, in <module>
    shell = start_shell()
  File "/usr/bin/gnome-shell", line 135, in start_shell
    (server_glx_extensions, client_glx_extensions, glx_extensions) = _get_glx_extensions()
  File "/usr/bin/gnome-shell", line 73, in _get_glx_extensions
    server_glx_extensions = set(re.split("\s*,\s*", glxinfo_map['server glx extensions'].strip()))
KeyError: 'server glx extensions'

funny thing though, when I enter "gnome-shell replace" it kinda logs me in as metacity root...

#626

the gnome shell i use is really buggy, everytime i run i get:

WARNING: Application calling GLX 1.3 function "glXCreatePixmap" when GLX 1.3 is not supported!  This is an application bug!
      JS LOG: Failed to acquire org.freedesktop.Notifications; trying again

clicking on activities makes the screen go almost black also

#627

My advice:

Step 1: ``` sudo apt-get autoremove gnome-shell


After step 1, [Step 2]('apt:/gnome-shell').

Edit: Another would-be problem: Do you have proprietary drivers installed that enable compositing? Compositing is **required** by GNOME Shell.
#628

libihero said: the gnome shell i use is really buggy, everytime i run i get:

WARNING: Application calling GLX 1.3 function "glXCreatePixmap" when GLX 1.3 is not supported!  This is an application bug!
      JS LOG: Failed to acquire org.freedesktop.Notifications; trying again

clicking on activities makes the screen go almost black also

This means that you don't have the proper graphics drivers, and that GLX is not supported by your graphics card. You need to get a new graphics card to use GNOME Shell.

#629

optimisme said:

... default for Lucid ...

I have a tablet with a screen that rotates. So far, none of the 3D desktop parts and settings play well with tablet parts and settings. The troubles mostly revolve around geometry and resolution changes when swapping between landscape "laptop-mode" and portrait "tablet-mode" -- for the display; for the pointing device(s); for the arrow keys; and so on. There are other troubles that are non-mouse pointing device -- stylus and job wheel -- interaction with all sorts of desktop and application things.

Eye candy is fun but not productive. Some 3D effects aid productivity with or without fun. Personally, I want a workstation "desktop" that behaves very much like my "heap sorted" actual desktop, and tables, and counters ...

~~~ 0;-Dan

#630

SaintDanBert said: I have a tablet with a screen that rotates. So far, none of the 3D desktop parts and settings play well with tablet parts and settings. The troubles mostly revolve around geometry and resolution changes when swapping between landscape "laptop-mode" and portrait "tablet-mode" -- for the display; for the pointing device(s); for the arrow keys; and so on. There are other troubles that are non-mouse pointing device -- stylus and job wheel -- interaction with all sorts of desktop and application things.

Eye candy is fun but not productive. Some 3D effects aid productivity with or without fun. Personally, I want a workstation "desktop" that behaves very much like my "heap sorted" actual desktop, and tables, and counters ...

~~~ 0;-Dan

To maybe put your mind at ease the part you quoted was out of context and out of date.

Currently GNOME Shell will be an optional default, but not until Lucid+1 at the earliest.

#631

so the graphics card i currently have wont ever work with gnome shell?? that blows... i got this laptop only a year and a half ago :(

#632

libihero said: so the graphics card i currently have wont ever work with gnome shell??

that blows... i got this laptop only a year and a half ago :(

What's the graphics card's model number?

Integrated graphics before nVidia 9000 series and ATI HD 3000 series are absolutely screwed.

I have a discrete graphics card, and it does work. However, it's a PCI Express (ATI Radeon HD 2400 Pro PCIE). Integrated graphics, in contrast, does not have any discrete memory. It has to use system memory, which hampers performance. The only reason my Acer Aspire One works is that it's using the generic VESA driver.

#633

Hi there people

I have just started using this Gnome Shell ting. I like it very much. But have a few questions.

Is there a way to get desktop search functionality in the Shell, for instance with help of tracker or beagle or something?

Is there away to configure Gnome Shell, for instance to set appearance or edit menu entries.

Thanks

#634

i got an ATI radeon X1200

#635

halus said: Hi there people

I have just started using this Gnome Shell ting. I like it very much. But have a few questions.

Is there a way to get desktop search functionality in the Shell, for instance with help of tracker or beagle or something?

Is there away to configure Gnome Shell, for instance to set appearance or edit menu entries.

Thanks

Not yet, they haven't implemented configuration options yet really at all... I'm excited for it.

#636

k64 said: What's the graphics card's model number?

Integrated graphics before nVidia 9000 series and ATI HD 3000 series are absolutely screwed.

I have a discrete graphics card, and it does work. However, it's a PCI Express (ATI Radeon HD 2400 Pro PCIE). Integrated graphics, in contrast, does not have any discrete memory. It has to use system memory, which hampers performance. The only reason my Acer Aspire One works is that it's using the generic VESA driver. Thanks for insulting the people with 5 year old laptops using Intel graphics that can run gnome-shell flawlessly.

#637

Merk42 said: To maybe put your mind at ease the part you quoted was out of context and out of date.

Currently GNOME Shell will be an optional default, but not until Lucid+1 at the earliest.

What's this mean, exactly?

Say Gnome Shell is finalized tomorrow. If I install Ubuntu, what will I see? Gnome with the panels? Then would I just have to "activate" shell like users currently have to do with full blown compiz effects?

#638

k64 said: What's the graphics card's model number?

Integrated graphics before nVidia 9000 series and ATI HD 3000 series are absolutely screwed.

I have a discrete graphics card, and it does work. However, it's a PCI Express (ATI Radeon HD 2400 Pro PCIE). Integrated graphics, in contrast, does not have any discrete memory. It has to use system memory, which hampers performance. The only reason my Acer Aspire One works is that it's using the generic VESA driver. Now hold on here. If a card will not handle compiz it may still handle GS?

It seems we have the same card. I am on 9.04 right now and just tried to enable more than "none" on desktop effects.

Luckily it cleared itself, but not before the screen flashed black and then just the wall paper for about a minute and then stuff slowly came back. The contents of 5 workstations all piled into one. When I finally dug out the box for appearance it informed me that effects couldn't be enabled (what a shock have never worked). I do have the ATI driver on this OS but it is the reason I stick to the generic on all the rest.

In spite of that, you are saying that this card will support GS?

#639

hmmmm, odd, I have a nvidia 6150 Go on my laptop and it handles compix fine, I thought it would handle GS too... this is such a let down.

oh yeah, I am using the 195.30 beta drivers

UPDATE: apparently the drivers were the problem, I usually disable compiz in my laptop for the performance boost, tried to re-enable compiz with no success.

Long story short I have just borked my lucid partition. :D . I am typing from my karmic partition, anyway I think I am going to start fresh with lucid soon when I have some free time. The search for the nvidia drivers continues...

UPDATE2: GS works well in karmic

#640

Those updates mentioned by Merk42 are now available in the update from the rocotz PPA, looks good so far, although I admit that lately I haven't been using workspaces much, don't really see the point to be honest.

#641

Anyone have a link to this "rocotz" PPA?

#642
#643

OlyPerson said: Those updates mentioned by Merk42 are now available in the update from the rocotz PPA, looks good so far, although I admit that lately I haven't been using workspaces much, don't really see the point to be honest.

Karmic repo only, the Lucid repo is outdated.

#644

I've built gnome-shell using jhbuild, and have a couple of questions about which features have been implemented so far.

First, is there a working keyboard shortcut to minimize a window? According to all-keybindings.h this is bound to <Alt>F9, but it doesn't work for me.

Second, some of the screenshots of the Fedora version show the Applications Menu with submenus. My version of gnome-shell is lacking the submenus; is there a parameter that can be changed to turn on submenus?

#645

Quick question here: do you guys know why the glowing blue dots were removed from running applications?

#646

Bou said: Quick question here: do you guys know why the glowing blue dots were removed from running applications?

I'm guessing it's because they were difficult to see behind the name of the application. Rather than doing the arguably more sensible thing and remove the name of the application (which is often truncated anyway) they removed the dots.

Maybe there is going to be some other dot-like implementation later?

#647

i'm confused though, will my graphics card ever be able to handle gnome shell?

#648

Looks awful.

No thanks.

#649

Reasons why I won't be using gnome shell. http://s892.photobucket.com/albums/ac121/d3v1150m471c/

On the contrary, I think great lightweight alternative.

#650

Digikid said: Looks awful.

No thanks.

Any constructive criticism? I personally like it the more I use it, and it's not even near completion so don't get completely set on your dislike.

#651

Been using the shell now since quite a while. Mostly on and off as it's still to unstable and crashes to often for me to use it productivly.

My impressions so far have been positive and I quite like working with the shell workflow idea. I especially notice that I prefer the shell idea when I'm back in an GNOME 2 environemnt and everything just feels more complicated. It is though a strange feeling at first to not have a classical taskbar. But IMO once you get used to the overlay idea you don't really miss it.

What I'm missing most atm besides stability (It's an alpha/beta version so that is to be expected) is polish. I find that the usability is there, but look wise it I find that most UI elements look they were quickly implemented like first concepts or tests. The font choices are not particularly appealing, things like the right side of the overlay are overly cluttered, and buttons look quite cheap. For example why does there have to be so many recent documents entries? Half would still be more than enough, but would allow for a lot nicer spacing of the three blocks, so that everything wouldn't look so cramped anymore. But well maybe that is still coming and they are first waiting for all features and ideas to be settled on and implemented.

But that brings me to my other point I wonder about: time. Currently the "realese date" is set for the yearly fall realese. I'm not sure if that is enough time to finish up deciding what and how should be implemented, then implementing it, then polishing it, then making it stable and all they while doing "Q&A" to find and squish any remaining bugs. Looking at the current rate of developement I find this quite an ambitouis time frame. And sadly it doesn't look like they have some extra manpower hidden somewhere that they can quickly call for extra help. This is not meant against the developers. I think they are doing good work. But as always so many people can only do so much. Bottom line; I' wondering if the current time frame is realistic.

#652

OlyPerson said: Any constructive criticism? I personally like it the more I use it, and it's not even near completion so don't get completely set on your dislike.

I like everything about it, except how dizzy I get using it. I've said a few times in this thread, perhaps if the notification system gets implemented full bore and improved, it would make GS actually usable. We'll see what happens as time progresses towards the final release.

#653

bash said: Been using the shell now since quite a while. Mostly on and off as it's still to unstable and crashes to often for me to use it productivly.

My impressions so far have been positive and I quite like working with the shell workflow idea. I especially notice that I prefer the shell idea when I'm back in an GNOME 2 environemnt and everything just feels more complicated. It is though a strange feeling at first to not have a classical taskbar. But IMO once you get used to the overlay idea you don't really miss it.

What I'm missing most atm besides stability (It's an alpha/beta version so that is to be expected) is polish. I find that the usability is there, but look wise it I find that most UI elements look they were quickly implemented like first concepts or tests. The font choices are not particularly appealing, things like the right side of the overlay are overly cluttered, and buttons look quite cheap. For example why does there have to be so many recent documents entries? Half would still be more than enough, but would allow for a lot nicer spacing of the three blocks, so that everything wouldn't look so cramped anymore. But well maybe that is still coming and they are first waiting for all features and ideas to be settled on and implemented.

But that brings me to my other point I wonder about: time. Currently the "realese date" is set for the yearly fall realese. I'm not sure if that is enough time to finish up deciding what and how should be implemented, then implementing it, then polishing it, then making it stable and all they while doing "Q&A" to find and squish any remaining bugs. Looking at the current rate of developement I find this quite an ambitouis time frame. And sadly it doesn't look like they have some extra manpower hidden somewhere that they can quickly call for extra help. This is not meant against the developers. I think they are doing good work. But as always so many people can only do so much. Bottom line; I' wondering if the current time frame is realistic.

On my computer with a small screen there is often nothing in the "Recent Items" as there is no room for it, so I think that issue really depends on screen size. I think that the "Places & Devices" menu needs to be changed though, it's just too... well I guess just look at it, it just doesn't work.

And I think they'll need longer than a year too. Everything is very un-finished and some things are a little slow still (it should not take 2 seconds to populate the Applications menu when you click on it.

Still looking forward to having options with it though, I can imagine themes being really cool.

#654

I'm still not fully understanding a few things. I hear they're facts, other say they're myths, etc.

1 - Will shell be Gnome's default? Or will the panels be default? 2 - Will Gnome ever abandon the panels, or will they remain regardless of shell's success?

#655

Roasted said: I'm still not fully understanding a few things. I hear they're facts, other say they're myths, etc.

1 - Will shell be Gnome's default? Or will the panels be default? 2 - Will Gnome ever abandon the panels, or will they remain regardless of shell's success?

As it currently stands, the shell is slated to become Gnome's default DE in september 2010 (Gnome 3.0), meaning Gnome will abandon the panels. Of course, someone could always fork the current gnome panel DE.

Personally, I like some of gnome-shell, like how it takes care of workspaces (although i don't know how to change the default number of workspaces, or if that's even possible), but I can't really work w/ gnome-shell unless I have a panel or dock, and currently gnome-shell isn't efficient enough memory/cpu/gpu wise for me to use w/ awn.

#656

libihero said: i got an ATI radeon X1200

Okay, that will explain it. Very old graphics card indeed. Especially if it needs to support compositing. Good luck.

#657

FatalChaos said: As it currently stands, the shell is slated to become Gnome's default DE in september 2010 (Gnome 3.0), meaning Gnome will abandon the panels. Of course, someone could always fork the current gnome panel DE.

Personally, I like some of gnome-shell, like how it takes care of workspaces (although i don't know how to change the default number of workspaces, or if that's even possible), but I can't really work w/ gnome-shell unless I have a panel or dock, and currently gnome-shell isn't efficient enough memory/cpu/gpu wise for me to use w/ awn.

Well, I have at least seen from the Gnome site that as of the release of Shell, they won't abandon panels right away, and I read elsewhere that panels will be default at least for now, even in sept 2010, but that's as far as I found. I was just curious if they plan to keep them around.

It's not that I'm trying to down GS, cause I do like it, but if they drop panels they will receive so much grief from the community. It'd make a lot of sense to upkeep the panels with minor feature add-ins and minor bug fixes for the future for those with older hardware. Argue it all you want, but GS won't be as old-hardware friendly as panels - despite how friendly GS seems to be thus far.

I also think people are taking the GS workspace switcher being so amazing vs panels a little too over the top. Anybody ever click and drag a window to the edge of the screen? It goes to the other workspace. OGMAWD! Just like you do in the GS overlay mode.

Looking forward to seeing what GS brings. Hopefully they bring something to the table that relieves my eyes of the strain I receive after using the zoom in/out continuously that I currently have to on GS. I'm sure it'll be greatly improved in time though.

#658

I'd just like to add, after reading about some users commenting on the recent updates of GS, I installed it on my newly re-done Ubuntu work laptop. Man I like what they did with the option to change the view of workspace layouts. That actually makes using multiple workspaces (yet using the overlay as an alternative to alt-tab) much more practical since having multiple workspaces activated makes windows EXTREMELY small if you have multiple workspaces open.

Very nice...

Question -

Is there any way you can change the key binding of activating the overlay from the super key to something else?

Also is sthere a way to change the key binding of alt-tab to something else? It'd be kind of cool to try out using these extra mouse buttons as one of those functions.

I know it's early yet for the notification system, but is there a way to extend the amount of time the notification for instant messages are displayed on the screen?

And yet another thought - it'd be nice if I could click on the notification that comes up to make it the active window... possible yet?

Has GS functionality changed at all for dual screen monitors? Last I used GS on my desktop it was kind of meh. It's slick on my laptop though...

#659

Looks like there's still a ways to go in the VNC department. I often VNC to my home desktop from work. I just tested it from Ubuntu 9.10 laptop to Ubuntu 9.10 desktop running GS. When I clicked on Activities, absolutely nothing happened on my laptop, but on the desktop it clearly went into overlay mode as expected.

Not a big deal. I'm sure things will smooth over in time. But figured it was worth noting.

#660

Honest question to you hardcore GS users - Do you miss your panel at all? Like do you not find it difficult to sift through open windows? Fire up Pidgin and begin conversations with 5 people. Do you guys not find it difficult and cumbersome to use at that point? And no - ALT + Tab is not a valid answer.

I tried the sidebar today, and while I liked it, I hate how when it extends out, it forces the rest of the screen to resize. It'd be much smoother if it would just plop on top since it would retract back in anyway. (I'm talking about the sidebar in the more minimal sized state).

Another -1 for the sidebar was it could only act as a launcher. I already had skype open. When I went to the sidebar to click skype (in an attempt to feel GS in a more user friendly manner) it launched a 2nd instance of Skype instead of opening the existing one.

I'm trying to like it. But certain things keep dragging it down yet. I know it's still in development but, does anybody else feel this way too?

#661

Roasted said: Do you miss your panel at all? Like do you not find it difficult to sift through open windows? Fire up Pidgin and begin conversations with 5 people. Do you guys not find it difficult and cumbersome to use at that point?

Agree with your comment 100%. I've tried GS several times and, while I like the overall concept, the lack of a clickable window-switcher is an absolute dealbreaker for me. I know I can install a dock, but that's only a band-aid.

On a widescreen monitor there's plenty of room in the activity bar for a panel-like display of open windows.

#662

PhilGil said: Agree with your comment 100%. I've tried GS several times and, while I like the overall concept, the lack of a clickable window-switcher is an absolute dealbreaker for me. I know I can install a dock, but that's only a band-aid.

On a widescreen monitor there's plenty of room in the activity bar for a panel-like display of open windows.

I just installed AWN to use along-side GS. It's VERY, very nice. BUT... knowing I HAVE to use a dock to make GS function, in my mind, means GS isn't user friendly whatsoever. I shouldn't have to find external applications to make something functional. It should be fully functional from the get-go unless I prefer something else.

AKA - if I prefer a dock on 2.X, that's fine since 2.X provides a panel (which does the same job as a dock. But I don't HAVE to use a dock to make 2.X functional.

I hope they incorporate something into the notification system that has dock-like features. And when I say dock like, I mean EXACTLY like a fricken dock so I can actually browse from open application to open application without the zoom in/out thing each time.

Months to go. Let's hope they pull it off... if not, hello 2.X.

#663

Roasted said: Months to go. Let's hope they pull it off... if not, hello 2.X.All your comments mirror what I felt using it, it was just to cumbersome and couldn't achieve the same things as 2.x would do with ease. I myself would like a panel, it would help G-S in so many ways. The other thing that would help it is if it was less resource intensive. It just uses my CPU/RAM/SWAP way to much for me to be able to do anything else.

#664

What I would like to know is how do you install the GS version in the repo. I get some message about not being able to install due to some dependency not being met.

I was trying to do this in a clean install of 10.04 with the xorg-edgers ppa enabled.

#665

ranch hand said: What I would like to know is how do you install the GS version in the repo. I get some message about not being able to install due to some dependency not being met.

I was trying to do this in a clean install of 10.04 with the xorg-edgers ppa enabled.

apt:/gnome-shell

#666

Roasted said: Honest question to you hardcore GS users - Do you miss your panel at all? Like do you not find it difficult to sift through open windows? Fire up Pidgin and begin conversations with 5 people. Do you guys not find it difficult and cumbersome to use at that point? And no - ALT + Tab is not a valid answer.

I'm afraid Alt-tab *is* a valid answer as it is how I've always moved between windows. I don't miss the panel at all. Your dislike for an option is not enough to render that option invalid. And I don't find it cumbersome at all. I can easily Alt-tab through my windows in less time than it takes me to reach for the mouse and navigate to a button on the panel.

I tried the sidebar today, and while I liked it, I hate how when it extends out, it forces the rest of the screen to resize. It'd be much smoother if it would just plop on top since it would retract back in anyway. (I'm talking about the sidebar in the more minimal sized state).

I keep the sidebar turned off myself. It's one of the few things that I don't like about Gnome-shell. It doesn't really add anything useful to the experience for me.

#667

Why, this is funny about my last post:[ATTACH]145080[/ATTACH]

#668

k64 said: apt:/gnome-shell

I am not sure what that was supposed to do but it didn't do anything that helped.

I did manage to get the bugger to install.

Then

ike@iso-desktop:~$ gnome-shell --replace
do_wait: drmWaitVBlank returned -1, IRQs don't seem to be working correctly.
Try adjusting the vblank_mode configuration parameter.
do_wait: drmWaitVBlank returned -1, IRQs don't seem to be working correctly.
Try adjusting the vblank_mode configuration parameter.
      JS LOG: conforming method: IntrospectRemote for org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable
      JS LOG: Loading tweener.js
      JS LOG: Loading tweenlist.js
      JS LOG: Done loading tweenlist.js
      JS LOG: Done loading tweener.js
      JS LOG: conforming method: SetStatusRemote for org.gnome.SessionManager.Presence
      JS LOG: Loading equations.js
      JS LOG: Done loading equations.js
Window manager warning: Log level 16: IA__g_object_set_valist: construct property "type" for object `ShellEmbeddedWindow' can't be set after construction
Window manager warning: Log level 16: IA__g_object_set_valist: construct property "type" for object `ShellEmbeddedWindow' can't be set after construction
Window manager warning: Log level 16: IA__g_object_set_valist: construct property "type" for object `ShellEmbeddedWindow' can't be set after construction

Have no idea what that means at all. I do have a black top bar but nothing on it responds except the "user" thingy so I can get out.

#669

Roasted said: Honest question to you hardcore GS users - Do you miss your panel at all? Like do you not find it difficult to sift through open windows? Fire up Pidgin and begin conversations with 5 people. Do you guys not find it difficult and cumbersome to use at that point? And no - ALT + Tab is not a valid answer.

I don't miss the panel, but I find GS hard to use without a dock (docky for me) sometimes. For some reason I can't add Exaile to my frequently used applications list and also having my mounted NTFS partition always one click away (although this is a moot point once I already have nautilus open). The main reason I keep it is for the gmail applet on docky that notifies me when I get emails.

When are applets going to become available for GS?

And as someone said, I agree about the sidebar. Stupidest part of GS right now that I see no point in having. Also wish alt-tab wouldn't list different windows of the same application as one...

#670

qamelian said: I'm afraid Alt-tab *is* a valid answer as it is how I've always moved between windows. I don't miss the panel at all. Your dislike for an option is not enough to render that option invalid. And I don't find it cumbersome at all. I can easily Alt-tab through my windows in less time than it takes me to reach for the mouse and navigate to a button on the panel.

Let me shed some light on something I'm seeing here:

qamelian said: I'm afraid Alt-tab *is* a valid answer as it is how I've always moved between windows.

I don't miss the panel at all.

And I don't find it cumbersome at all.

I can easily Alt-tab through my windows in less time than it takes me to reach for the mouse and navigate to a button on the panel.

Your entire argument is based on your opinion of it. My argument is based, not only on my opinion of it, but the simple fact that it's the over-welming response that pretty much everybody is giving GS.

There's 2 things I hear CONSTANTLY about Gnome Shell that people complain about.

1 - People hate the zoom. Some people just don't like it and don't want to have to zoom in and out every time. Understandable, but a minor matter of preference.

2 - No easy way to navigate through open windows. Alt-Tab may work for you, but I feel as though I can say it is not a valid response to the lack of a panel based on the simple fact most everybody has the same opinion I do.

I'm not trying to step on any toes here. Your opinion is your opinion, my opinion is my opinion. But the reality is simple: It's a problem, and it needs to be addressed or the masses of GS users will give it the thumbs down and either use 3.0 with panels, 2.X, or a fork of Gnome that will undoubtedly come about if certain things aren't implemented in a way the users like.

If Alt-Tab is your thing, nobody is stopping you from using it. But that argument won't convince the mass user-base. I'm sure of that much.

#671

ranch hand said: What I would like to know is how do you install the GS version in the repo. I get some message about not being able to install due to some dependency not being met.I had similar difficulty, I eventually installed the Karmic version in Lucid and then let it update itself.

#672

Roasted said: Your entire argument is based on your opinion of it. My argument is based, not only on my opinion of it, but the simple fact that it's the over-welming response that pretty much everybody is giving GS.

No, you're making an unwarranted assumption. If you look through this thread, you will see where I have mentioned before that I have been conducting usability tests with a selection of my clients. As I have said elsewhere, the opinions I express also represent the greater majority of over 100 test users in my local area for whom I provide tech support. My argument is just as valid as yours, whether you want to accept it or not. What you refer to as the over-whelming response is really just the response of people who choose to post on this forum and is not necessarily representative of any group of users other than those who post to these forums. Most of my clients do not.

#673

qamelian said: No, you're making an unwarranted assumption. If you look through this thread, you will see where I have mentioned before that I have been conducting usability tests with a selection of my clients. As I have said elsewhere, the opinions I express also represent the greater majority of over 100 test users in my local area for whom I provide tech support. My argument is just as valid as yours, whether you want to accept it or not. What you refer to as the over-whelming response is really just the response of people who choose to post on this forum and is not necessarily representative of any group of users other than those who post to these forums. Most of my clients do not.

I wonder, do your clients have any complaints? I'd find it difficult to believe that any product in existence wouldn't have any complaints or criticisms among 100+ people.

#674

He said the greater majority, not all of them.

#675

Ah so he did, I just often see "well me and my clients like it", I think that was the first time he's said the greater majority.

#676

qamelian said: No, you're making an unwarranted assumption. If you look through this thread, you will see where I have mentioned before that I have been conducting usability tests with a selection of my clients. As I have said elsewhere, the opinions I express also represent the greater majority of over 100 test users in my local area for whom I provide tech support. My argument is just as valid as yours, whether you want to accept it or not. What you refer to as the over-whelming response is really just the response of people who choose to post on this forum and is not necessarily representative of any group of users other than those who post to these forums. Most of my clients do not.

You're assuming I'm basing this off of the forum alone. I've done a ton of research, read a lot of reviews, and showed a lot of people Gnome Shell in the last few months. What I've seen is based on what most users are saying, both to me, to other forums, to this forum, friends of mine who have seen it, co-workers, and even the Gnome Shell newsletter.

All I'm saying is, Gnome Shell still needs work, and that's okay because it has months to go. It is absolutely not in it's "ready state" as of today.

And that's fine that your users seem to like Gnome Shell, but I find it weird that your users you conducted tests with are also in direct line to what your personal opinion is.

I'm not trying to step on any toes. I'm just calling it like it is.

#677

By chance, has anybody else noticed the individual zoom feature on each window when in overlay mode? I did it completely on accident and thought it was a nice touch. I always thought the windows zoomed out entirely too small when you have a few windows open, but if you hover over a particular window and scroll in/out with the mouse wheel you can adjust the zoom of that window only. That'd be kind of a nice feature when I'm doing something in overlay mode and I get an IM but the text is too small to read. I can read it without de-activating overlay mode.

Hmm, kinda nice. Not an earth shattering feature I suppose, but one of those features that just... makes sense.

#678

qamelian said: I'm afraid Alt-tab *is* a valid answer as it is how I've always moved between windows.

When I was a Windows developer, one app I wrote was AltTabThingy. I've always found using alt-tab to be a very convenient way to switch between apps. Sadly, metacity did not take into account workplaces. I've just installed gnome-shell from the repos, and my first reaction was WHOA! So now I'm going to switch off awn and have a play.

BTW what's the best way for this to auto start?

#679

Damn! It just crashed. Oh well, it'll be fun playing with it every now and again. Incidentally, where is the notification area? It must have because awn complained there was one already running and I have no gnome panels running.

#680

phenest said: When I was a Windows developer, one app I wrote was AltTabThingy. I've always found using alt-tab to be a very convenient way to switch between apps. Sadly, metacity did not take into account workplaces. I've just installed gnome-shell from the repos, and my first reaction was WHOA! So now I'm going to switch off awn and have a play.

BTW what's the best way for this to auto start?

I recommend grabbing a PPA of the latest version. The repo version is old. Have a looksie at the Ricotz PPA. That's where I got Gnome Shell. It comes with frequent updates where as the repo version... ehh.

http://ubuntu-tweak.com/source/ricotz-testing/

Secondly, if you want it to auto start, go to startup applications and create a new launcher for Gnome Shell. The command is:

gnome-shell --replace

That way Gnome Shell will take over immediately when logging in.

#681

Merk42 said: I wonder, do your clients have any complaints? I'd find it difficult to believe that any product in existence wouldn't have any complaints or criticisms among 100+ people.

I give up. If you have at all been paying attention, I have on several occasions quoted the actual statistics regarding how many people of my test group gave positive feedback. I'm tired of trying to justify the opinions of myself and the various groups of users I support. If you find it so hard to believe that any sizeable group could actually deign to disagree with your opinion, so be it. I have simply tried to present a count-point to some of the things folks have objected to regarding Gnome-shell. If you can't accept that, it's your own problem, not mine.

#682

Merk42 said: Ah so he did, I just often see "well me and my clients like it", I think that was the first time he's said the greater majority.

If you take the time to check I believe you will find at least one post where I indicate the approximately 70% of my test subjects respond positively to some aspects of Gnome-shell. I have never, at any time, indicated 100% bliss from my group regarding any facet of Gnome-shell. Frankly, I find it offensive that you state otherwise.

#683

I'm sure the majority of your clients do naturally like it.

I'm just saying that this thread is for the discussion likes and dislikes of the shell. I'm well aware of what parts of the shell your clients like, I'd like to know what parts of the shell they dislike.

#684

Roasted said: You're assuming I'm basing this off of the forum alone. I've done a ton of research, read a lot of reviews, and showed a lot of people Gnome Shell in the last few months. What I've seen is based on what most users are saying, both to me, to other forums, to this forum, friends of mine who have seen it, co-workers, and even the Gnome Shell newsletter.

All I'm saying is, Gnome Shell still needs work, and that's okay because it has months to go. It is absolutely not in it's "ready state" as of today.

And that's fine that your users seem to like Gnome Shell, but I find it weird that your users you conducted tests with are also in direct line to what your personal opinion is.

I'm not trying to step on any toes. I'm just calling it like it is. I never said that Gnome-shell doesn't still require work. Again (god, I'm sick of saying this), if you have bothered at all to read my posts in this thread as well as one or two others relating to Gnome-shell, I have agreed with others on some things that still need(ed) work.

If the users I've conducted usability tests were in "direct line" with my opinion, I would expect the numbers to be even higher than they are. Whether or not you believe the numbers or not makes no difference to me. You aren't a user who relies on me for support.

The tests I have been conducting directly relate to my ability to support my clients and recommend appropriate work environments for them. Knowing that Gnome-shell is on its way, I would be remiss not to test it extensively in the organizations I support. If the tests indicate that Gnome-shell will have a negative impact on my clients, then I am responsible for ensuring that GS does not become a part of their work environment. By the same token, if the test results prove that GS will benefit my clients, I need to be prepared to provide appropriate training during the transition for those not involved in the usability tests.

I take this testing very seriously. A bad decision/recommendation on my part regarding GS could negatively impact my customers and by extension reduce my own income. If you think I might be anxious to throw away clients and, as a result, my own sources of income, I urge you to think again.

#685

I would really like t obe able to get the sucker to come up without freezing my system. I just gave it another whack with the repo version and lost the entire desktop, black screen. tty1 did get a reboot for me.

What in flinderation is this;

Try adjusting the vblank_mode configuration parameter. do_wait: drmWaitVBlank returned -1, IRQs don't seem to be working correctly. crap.

Every thing I am doing is FOSS. Why drm? How do you set the "mode"? Search turns up nothing of value that I can see.

I did insert a xorg.conf file calling for uxa as that is supposed to help with the radeon cards (mine, I do not know about) and the screen seemed fine with the compiz manager when I booted up.

#686

qamelian said: I have agreed with others on some things that still need(ed) work.

Like something other than ALT-Tab being the only means of switching between active applications, right?

#687

Merk42 said: I'm sure the majority of your clients do naturally like it.

I'm just saying that this thread is for the discussion likes and dislikes of the shell. I'm well aware of what parts of the shell your clients like, I'd like to know what parts of the shell they dislike.

The overall dark appearance is rather unpopular with all but a few of them. The linear approach to adding and removing workspaces feels a little clumsy to many of them, although they like the concept of dynamically adding and removing workspaces, in general. There are others, to be sure, but we haven't compiled a comprehensive list as yet, although we will be completing a survey within the next few weeks which will give the members of the test groups the chance to detail their specific pros & cons on a per user basis.

When we initially began testing, the percentage of users who were in favour of GS was much smaller than it is now. We almost didn't continue testing past the third week, in fact. What prompted us to continue testing was a survey of the existing testers which indicated that the number of positive reactions was increasing. At the end of the first week, only about 6% of my users liked GS. Another 29% were indifferent. The remaining 65% actively disliked it. The same survey conducted at the end of week 3 showed that the percentage of users who liked GS had risen to 23%, while the indifferent group dropped to 26%. The remainder continued to dislike it. This convinced us that some of the initial dislike was simply discomfort because GS was different and unfamiliar in some ways. The continued decline in dissenters seems to bear this out. We still have a few users who actively dislike Gnome-shell, but when asked to rate the existing Gnome environment, almost half of them also disliked it.

#688

Roasted said: Like something other than ALT-Tab being the only means of switching between active applications, right?

I have said elsewhere that the Alt-tab approach is my preference, but that I can understand why others might prefer a dock or some other approach. I don't even have any objection to GS including a dock or something similar, so long as I can turn it off to get it out of my way. I find the keyboard to be a more effective interface than a mouse for most things, although I would never consider it the only method of doing anything.

#689

qamelian said: I have said elsewhere that the Alt-tab approach is my preference, but that I can understand why others might prefer a dock or some other approach. I don't even have any objection to GS including a dock or something similar, so long as I can turn it off to get it out of my way. I find the keyboard to be a more effective interface than a mouse for most things, although I would never consider it the only method of doing anything.

If you've seen more recent screens/videos of GS, you'll know that a dock is not planned for GS, nor is one recommended, so the alt+tab method will probably be forced on users.

Why do I say this? Because of the notification tray in the lower right.

#690

ranch hand said: I would really like t obe able to get the sucker to come up without freezing my system. I just gave it another whack with the repo version and lost the entire desktop, black screen. tty1 did get a reboot for me.

What in flinderation is this; crap.

Every thing I am doing is FOSS. Why drm? How do you set the "mode"? Search turns up nothing of value that I can see.

I did insert a xorg.conf file calling for uxa as that is supposed to help with the radeon cards (mine, I do not know about) and the screen seemed fine with the compiz manager when I booted up.

I think that the pc that you were using has an ATI card? Then this > Try adjusting the vblank_mode configuration parameter. do_wait: drmWaitVBlank returned -1, IRQs don't seem to be working correctly only works with the 2.6.33 kernel. The drm stands for Direct Rendering Manager. And on Phoronix - link you can read a bit more about IRQ and the new kernel.

But the bottom line is: nevermind this message as it's quite harmless.

#691

Psumi said: If you've seen more recent screens/videos of GS, you'll know that a dock is not planned for GS, nor is one recommended, so the alt+tab method will probably be forced on users.

Why do I say this? Because of the notification tray in the lower right. I'm actually using a build I did a few days ago right now. I usually do a new build every Sunday afternoon (or sometimes I skip a week) and run that build for a week or two as my principle desktop environment.

#692

uBeer said: I think that the pc that you were using has an ATI card?

Then this only works with the 2.6.33 kernel. The drm stands for Direct Rendering Manager. And on Phoronix - link you can read a bit more about IRQ and the new kernel.

But the bottom line is: nevermind this message as it's quite harmless. I figured it was harmless, as I can get out via a reboot and things are fine. Never heard of the direct rendering manager (might help if I ever used more than "none" on desktop effects).

At least now I know it won't work on my box with this kernel. I was just hoping that I could see what the big debate is about. Sounds like toys and silly eye candy to me but I haven't ever seen it (screen shots do not count). Heck, I may love it.

I'll just go back to lurking.

Thanks an awful lot. I hate beating my head on a wall for nothing, I can stop now.

Thanks for the link too. Am going to read it now.

#693

I triend the gnome shell and I am not impressed. The navigation is hard. Sinze you do not have any window list I find it hard to track my programs.

I would rather use xmonad than gnome shell.

#694

Psumi said: If you've seen more recent screens/videos of GS, you'll know that a dock is not planned for GS, nor is one recommended, so the alt+tab method will probably be forced on users.

Why do I say this? Because of the notification tray in the lower right.

They'll be shooting themselves in the foot if they don't implement some sort of panel-like or dock-like way to navigate (easily) through open windows.

I can honestly see pretty much all of my Linux friends switching over. Most of them would probably stick with GS and learn it and grow to like it but I know that would be an ice breaker.

Besides, I expect better than that from the Gnome devs. They're smart guys. For them to ignore this would be... stupid.

#695

Roasted said: They'll be shooting themselves in the foot if they don't implement some sort of panel-like or dock-like way to navigate (easily) through open windows.

I can honestly see pretty much all of my Linux friends switching over. Most of them would probably stick with GS and learn it and grow to like it but I know that would be an ice breaker.

Besides, I expect better than that from the Gnome devs. They're smart guys. For them to ignore this would be... stupid.

I agree, pretty much everyone thinks that it needs some sort of panel, and those that don't are the people that don't use it anyway.

I actually went back to 2.x yesterday (wanted more stable environment for OO.o) and it was much more difficult to navigate, a lot more clicking and less intuitive IMO. The only thing that was nice was having applets.

#696

OlyPerson said: I agree, pretty much everyone thinks that it needs some sort of panel, and those that don't are the people that don't use it anyway.

I actually went back to 2.x yesterday (wanted more stable environment for OO.o) and it was much more difficult to navigate, a lot more clicking and less intuitive IMO. The only thing that was nice was having applets.

Yeah. Like I said, the Gnome developers are pretty smart. They'll whip something up for us. If they don't, they'll be in for a very unfortunate surprise come d-day.

I really, really don't understand the argument being 2.X being hard to use. It's not hard to use whatsoever. In fact, it's very easy to use. I have to click just as often in 2.X as I do in GS. The only thing is, 2.X is a more antiquated system, whereas GS provides some sort of eye candy transitioning with added features. Same system, same result, just different method.

I noticed a problem today with GS on my desktop I'm not too sure about. When I go into overlay mode, the names of each window appears. But when I hover over it, they disappear and never come back. Not only that, but I don't have the X on each window to close it when in overlay mode.

I'm sure it's just a bug, but has anybody else seen it?

#697

Roasted said: I really, really don't understand the argument being 2.X being hard to use. It's not hard to use whatsoever. In fact, it's very easy to use. I have to click just as often in 2.X as I do in GS. The only thing is, 2.X is a more antiquated system, whereas GS provides some sort of eye candy transitioning with added features. Same system, same result, just different method.

I can completely navigate in GS without a mouse, which is nice since I use a netbook and it has a very small trackpad. However, with 2.x I have a little more clicking- there is no default option to just type in what you want.

And by completely without a mouse I mean actions in the OS, not navigating the web and things like that.

#698

OlyPerson said: I can completely navigate in GS without a mouse, which is nice since I use a netbook and it has a very small trackpad. However, with 2.x I have a little more clicking- there is no default option to just type in what you want.

And by completely without a mouse I mean actions in the OS, not navigating the web and things like that.

You know, now that you mention it I do understand how you could find 2.X a little less user friendly in comparison.

But tell me, how do you get to your "Downloads" folder within your home folder? Can you do that within GS? Like how can you get to the options down lower in the overlay?

#699

I don't understand how using a mouse, or touchpad on a laptop, is harder than Alt-tabbing. You slide the mouse/touchpad in one easy movement and click/tap so its 2 movements. Alt-tabbing is a new movement for each thing or at least it was in my attempt to use G-S a few weeks ago.

#700

[COLOR="Red"]Let's not forget the overview - and hot corner!!!!![/COLOR]

#701

k64 said: [COLOR="Red"]Let's not forget the overview - and hot corner!!!!![/COLOR]

Overview - Home Directory Overview - Firefox Overview - Thunderbird

If you multitask quickly enough, you'll find using the overview to switch between applications is actually very nauseating.

#702

Roasted said: You know, now that you mention it I do understand how you could find 2.X a little less user friendly in comparison.

But tell me, how do you get to your "Downloads" folder within your home folder? Can you do that within GS? Like how can you get to the options down lower in the overlay?

Well generally I just type the file name of whatever I want into the search bar after pressing the super button, but when I don't do that I just use the terminal (which is hot-keyed to Ctrl+alt+x for me) and when I don't do that I use Docky and if I don't do that I just go to overlay and click on it.

I'm not really sure what you were getting at with that?

k3lt01 said: I don't understand how using a mouse, or touchpad on a laptop, is harder than Alt-tabbing. You slide the mouse/touchpad in one easy movement and click/tap so its 2 movements. Alt-tabbing is a new movement for each thing or at least it was in my attempt to use G-S a few weeks ago.

You only have to move your pinky about 1cm and your thumb the same distance if you have your hand on the keyboard already. To use the trackpad you move your hand down and swipe a couple times to position it right the go back and click. I'm being honest when I say that alt-tabbing is at least 10 times faster.

It's not that using your mouse is more difficult, it just takes much, much long to do tasks- which is why file navigation (and other stuff) is a lot faster in the terminal if you can type fast.

#703

I don't particularly like KDE, I mean it's attractive and all, but so many applications and** *virtually all* settings are located elsewhere. **Different names, different functions...everything.. It's as close as you can get to stepping into a new os without actually doing so.

If they force a major UI change on people like that, people will just jump ship somewhere else.. Gnome shell sounds, by all accounts like teh suck. Gnome is quick, light, and resourceful... If I want to add a compositing manager that is snazzy, let me make that decision. Don't force it on me...

I guess if everything that was Gnome ceased to be, I'd be forced to go somewhere else.

#704

texaswriter said: I don't particularly like KDE, I mean it's attractive and all, but so many applications and** *virtually all* settings are located elsewhere. **Different names, different functions...everything.. It's as close as you can get to stepping into a new os without actually doing so.

If they force a major UI change on people like that, people will just jump ship somewhere else.. Gnome shell sounds, by all accounts like teh suck. Gnome is quick, light, and resourceful... If I want to add a compositing manager that is snazzy, let me make that decision. Don't force it on me...

I guess if everything that was Gnome ceased to be, I'd be forced to go somewhere else.

Have you tried it or seen any videos though?

While you may think it sucks, I'd rather you came to those conclusions from first hand experience (albeit currently in an early state)

#705

Roasted said: By chance, has anybody else noticed the individual zoom feature on each window when in overlay mode? I did it completely on accident and thought it was a nice touch. I always thought the windows zoomed out entirely too small when you have a few windows open, but if you hover over a particular window and scroll in/out with the mouse wheel you can adjust the zoom of that window only. That'd be kind of a nice feature when I'm doing something in overlay mode and I get an IM but the text is too small to read. I can read it without de-activating overlay mode.

Hmm, kinda nice. Not an earth shattering feature I suppose, but one of those features that just... makes sense.

thanks for posting that. it is really nice and handy. I also like the new way of switching workspases, it is much much better that before!

Keep on Shell!!!:popcorn:

#706

Merk42> It looks nice, but I like the current Gnome + Compiz just fine... Unnecessary changes that are shirked by its users should not be implemented unless it is a necessary step.. Being unnecessary kind of precludes the necessity.. Therefore it is fine the way it is.

Gnome plus Compiz is more variety... Can have Gnome or Gnome + Compiz... user picks... Now, user NO PICK. Big difference there.

I'll probably try it, but given tradeoffs, I'd likely reinstall something else... Given that will be somewhat down the road, I'll probably pick another distro that supports my current hardware [or current one with XFce or KDE].

I've noticed something about various programmers: Programmers rarely take into consideration users and they rarely over test their programs / code well enough. If they'd do those things programs would be much better, instead what we get are things out of tune with what is wanted/needed, and things that don't work like they are supposed. That's not specific to anybody, just general to the programming community. If I started today trying to list things, I wouldn't finish ever!!

So, I'm using this an example of why, after seeing virtually *no* positive posts ANYWHERE, it's probably a bad idea to take away whatever is being taken away and to force onto what is not wanted... That's like saying, how can i help you today... not tell you what, you can have only this... take it or leave it.

I mean seriously, if you are currently disaffected/dissatisfied with GNOME, I can see you liking it, but otherwise this change will change the fundamental dynamics that separate [them]. There certainly are replacements for GNOME, don't think forcing a change on an unwilling user base won't have consequences..

And please don't take this as a complaint at all or even an attack... I've seen the changes it makes, I've heard plenty of comments and stories. And under no circumstance would I get the feeling that this is wanted or a good idea... Gnome works great now... It has the further option of being extended with Compiz... This is a popular solution. Let's leave it at that.

#707

Texaswriter - I agree. Especially the part about developers, it seems they follow their own ideas, which might be great, but they should take in consideration the end user. For myself I use Gnome - Metacity and that's it, I don't want or need " eye candy ", something like Gnome 2.28 is OK for me. I'll wait till the final release of GS is there, try it, not just the present state, which is an unfinished product. If I don't like it I will move to something else, more basic without " eye candy ". Though I would hate to give up on some nice things Gnome can do right now and others can't.

#708

texaswriter said: I've noticed something about various programmers: Programmers rarely take into consideration users and they rarely over test their programs / code well enough. If they'd do those things programs would be much better, instead what we get are things out of tune with what is wanted/needed, and things that don't work like they are supposed. That's not specific to anybody, just general to the programming community. If I started today trying to list things, I wouldn't finish ever!!

Since the source is there for you to see, what is stopping you from proof-reading the code or conduct usability testing? Also, there is no guarantee that users actually know what they want- They might think they do, but often they don't. That is why I think it is nice that there are projects like Gnome Shell that dares to try a different method of doing stuff without listening to all the whining. BEcause that is what most of this is: whining. I see very little in form of constructive criticism and very much in the "things are good as they are"-department. While I agree that things are pretty good as they are, there might be something I haven't tried that is better. I am sure a lot of the users with text-only terminals thought that mouse and graphical windows were totally unneccessary because what they had worked very well.

#709

OlyPerson said: You only have to move your pinky about 1cm and your thumb the same distance if you have your hand on the keyboard already. To use the trackpad you move your hand down and swipe a couple times to position it right the go back and click. I'm being honest when I say that alt-tabbing is at least 10 times faster.

It's not that using your mouse is more difficult, it just takes much, much long to do tasks- which is why file navigation (and other stuff) is a lot faster in the terminal if you can type fast.The thing I find with the touch pad is I am already there I don't have to move my hand anywhere as it is right there anyway. For me it is 1, maybe 2, fluid movements to achieve what I need to achieve with a touchpad. To Alt-tab means retraining myself to consciously go for 2 separate keys while my hand is already over the touch pad anyway. Thus the reason I cannot see how it is easier.

#710

k64 said: [COLOR="Red"]Let's not forget the overview - and hot corner!!!!![/COLOR]

But why? It's much more fun to lament about "But you haz to use Alt-Tabs!!!1111oneoneonelevenpuffycookiekittens"

I presonally never use Alt-Tab. Neither in 2.x nor while using the shell. When using the 2.x I just the traditional panel and with the shell I just the overlay mode. Imo I actually find the overview a lot more convenient as applications switcher than the panel. But to each it's own.

#711

'[h2o] said: Since the source is there for you to see, what is stopping you from proof-reading the code or conduct usability testing? Also, there is no guarantee that users actually know what they want- They might think they do, but often they don't. That is why I think it is nice that there are projects like Gnome Shell that dares to try a different method of doing stuff without listening to all the whining. BEcause that is what most of this is: whining. I see very little in form of constructive criticism and very much in the "things are good as they are"-department. While I agree that things are pretty good as they are, there might be something I haven't tried that is better.

I am sure a lot of the users with text-only terminals thought that mouse and graphical windows were totally unneccessary because what they had worked very well.

I'm not really sure where you were going with that, but I agree entirely 100% with what texas said. Daring to do things that users don't like isn't adventurous. It's stupid.

Just by reading comments and looking at screenshots, anybody can figure out that a lot of choice in customization, as of now, is completely gone.

I've been trying to force myself to use GS. And for who? For what? Why? What I have works great. Why do I need to adapt to a new interface? Why do I have to use Alt Tab to switch through active applications? Why do I have to use zoom effects?

All this time when using GS I've felt like a puzzle piece that won't fit, and a 5 year old is soaking me in water and trying to beat the puzzle piece in place. While I do like the interface of GS, when I use it on my work laptop, I get so irritated with it at times and find myself closing it each time and breathing a sigh of relief when I see the panels again.

I see a bright future for Gnome if they continue to push panels by default, and allow Shell as the add-in 3d eye candy, much how like Compiz is now. But Texas nailed it dead on. We're not Windows users here. We have the power to easily change to something else. Ironically, in doing some reading about Gnome Shell, I found an interview with Shuttleworth where he explained that he wants Kubuntu and Ubuntu to work hand-in-hand and be completely parallel with each other in terms of features, implementations, etc. If GS bombs, and Kubuntu is picking up more speed, 2 and 2 is 4 here guys. ;)

This will either go VERY good for Gnome, or very, very bad. I can't see there being any in-between.

#712

OlyPerson said: Well generally I just type the file name of whatever I want into the search bar after pressing the super button, but when I don't do that I just use the terminal (which is hot-keyed to Ctrl+alt+x for me) and when I don't do that I use Docky and if I don't do that I just go to overlay and click on it.

I'm not really sure what you were getting at with that?

I just wasn't sure with GS if you were able to navigate to individal folders within your home folder or if you could only use the quick launch feature for launching applications.

#713

Roasted said: I'm not really sure where you were going with that, but I agree entirely 100% with what texas said. Daring to do things that users don't like isn't adventurous. It's stupid.

I never said that you should do stuff the users don't like. Only that users can not be trusted to know what they want.

Just by reading comments and looking at screenshots, anybody can figure out that a lot of choice in customization, as of now, is completely gone.

Which does not mean that it won't be in the future. What's your point?

I've been trying to force myself to use GS. And for who? For what? Why? What I have works great. Why do I need to adapt to a new interface? Why do I have to use Alt Tab to switch through active applications? Why do I have to use zoom effects?

You don't. You can simply continue using the old Gnome 2.x panels if that is what you like. Also, if the majority of the Gnome users are averted by the introduction of GS I assume that it will simply be dropped or changed accordingly.

I just wanted to chime in and say that changing paradigms, which is what GS is attempting, is hard and always met with some resistance. But if the new paradigm is better than the previous paradigms then eventually people will accept it. I am not saying that GS will be incredibly much better than the ancient "panels in the bottom and/or top"-approach we've lived with for a while now. I am just pointing out that while people might be whining about it being different now, there is nothing that says it can't be just as successful as what we have now.

#714

I'm now using the gnome shell as default, with no panels or awn. And I have to say, I'm liking it. Much quicker to navigate, switch apps/workspaces.

I've installed from the ppa, so I don't know how up to date this is.

It'll be interesting to watch this develop.

#715

'[h2o] said:

which does not mean that it won't be in the future. What's your point?

*ahem*

roasted said:

just by reading comments and looking at screenshots, anybody can figure out that a lot of choice in customization, _as of now_, is completely gone.

'[h2o] said:

You don't. You can simply continue using the old Gnome 2.x panels if that is what you like. Also, if the majority of the Gnome users are averted by the introduction of GS I assume that it will simply be dropped or changed accordingly.

I just wanted to chime in and say that changing paradigms, which is what GS is attempting, is hard and always met with some resistance. But if the new paradigm is better than the previous paradigms then eventually people will accept it. I am not saying that GS will be incredibly much better than the ancient "panels in the bottom and/or top"-approach we've lived with for a while now. I am just pointing out that while people might be whining about it being different now, there is nothing that says it can't be just as successful as what we have now.

There's a ton of reasons to keep panels around, and I think Gnome is smart enough to realize this. For example, despite how great 3d compositing on virtual systems may get in the future, what network admin in the right mind would "prefer" to have 3d effects on a server? I know several people, my workplace included, who virtualize desktop versions of Ubuntu (gnome) and use them as servers.

As long as the panels remain an option, GS will have a much greater time of transitioning into the mainstream. The second we're dropped into a pool of hot water and told, oh, just suck it up, is when bad things will happen.

Not to knock on KDE, but I really think KDE's 4.0 release would be plenty enough for Gnome to take smarter steps to implementing GS to the mainstream. I'm sure this is what will happen.

#716

phenest said: I'm now using the gnome shell as default, with no panels or awn. And I have to say, I'm liking it. Much quicker to navigate, switch apps/workspaces.

I've installed from the ppa, so I don't know how up to date this is.

It'll be interesting to watch this develop.

Did you grab the Ricotz PPA? I've been using the Ricotz PPA, and it updates pretty frequently.

Are you by chance using GS on a single or dual monitor setup? GS runs very nice on my laptop, but on my desktop it's lacking. The notification system only spans halfway across my primary monitor, and I also get weirdness in overlay mode. I can't exit windows in overlay mode (No X is in the corner) and when I hover over windows, the name disappears. All of this is fine on my laptop, but the desktop gives me some issues yet. I can only imagine it's dual screen effecting it, since it runs fine otherwise.

#717

k3lt01 said: The thing I find with the touch pad is I am already there I don't have to move my hand anywhere as it is right there anyway. For me it is 1, maybe 2, fluid movements to achieve what I need to achieve with a touchpad. To Alt-tab means retraining myself to consciously go for 2 separate keys while my hand is already over the touch pad anyway. Thus the reason I cannot see how it is easier.

Well I guess it's good that there are multiple ways then haha

And to whoever said there hasn't been constructive criticism and just a lot of complaining, that is completely false, we have made a lot of constructive criticism if you read back through it all.

#718

Roasted said: Did you grab the Ricotz PPA? I've been using the Ricotz PPA, and it updates pretty frequently.

Are you by chance using GS on a single or dual monitor setup? GS runs very nice on my laptop, but on my desktop it's lacking. The notification system only spans halfway across my primary monitor, and I also get weirdness in overlay mode. I can't exit windows in overlay mode (No X is in the corner) and when I hover over windows, the name disappears. All of this is fine on my laptop, but the desktop gives me some issues yet. I can only imagine it's dual screen effecting it, since it runs fine otherwise.

I think that's the only ppa. I'm using it on a laptop with a 1920x1200 resolution, and it's pretty awesome. I'm sure they'll fix those issues as time goes on. There's a lot of work to do yet. But what there is makes using everything so much more efficient and intuitive. I don't think I could use the likes of gnome panels, awn, or gnome-do ever again. I think gnome shell solves a lot of key issues that have been plaguing users and developers alike. What ever anyone thinks of gnome and its developers, they do appear to be quite an ingenious bunch.

#719

OlyPerson said: Well I guess it's good that there are multiple ways then haha Lol Oly.

Now all I need is G-S to speed up somewhat and maybe I will be able to use it more instead of waiting for everything. It was barely usable in Karmic, in Lucid it was just horrendously slow, so much so it was unusable, but then again it may require more than 256mb or ram lol.

I might try it on my desktop which I am currently updating to Lucid and see how that goes.

#720

Yeah, Metacity works great for things that don't work with compositing managers. It's very basic, yet just as functional as it needs to be without being over the top. Compiz Fusion is VERY ATTRACTIVE and works for when I'm just surfing and messing with music and low-resource programs. It makes my computing experience better. I ROUTINELY switch between Metacity and Compiz in the course of a day of computing. When I go play my game on the Desktop, metacity --replace, done... compiz --replace. Just like that.

Oh, well if you listened to people, Compiz is supposed to be able to let games be visible while both are running.. Gues what??? not true!!!... Guess what, I need to switch between the two. Now you are telling m e I won't have that choice... What if something doesn't work quite right with everything. I mean, Linux is always about getting everything right, usually that has to be done manually. I've never had my ATi work *just right* without doing someting, yeah if I watn just basic driver, but 3d, going to have to install sometihng.

I don't buy it that a compositing manager is going to satisfy even close to everybody all the time. Taking away the choice is lame. Taking away everything key about Gnome will make it something else, plain and simple. I can appreciate that people are trying to make something more appealing and/or streamlined, but like I said in my previous post: Developers rarely take into consideration the wants, needs, and preferences of its users and taking a look at virtually any professional piece of software will prove it. Even the most popular programs I could name are full of bad programming, poor planning, laughable arrangement, etc. As far as I see it, the best possible scenario of this is that you make Ubuntu more attractive to a small selection of *new* users and scare away a large base of current users. Maybe they'll just goto Kubuntu and it's not so bad, or maybe they just jump ship to another distro or OS altogether. That's dissatisfaction for you in a nutshell.

So, here is hoping that Gnome finds a way to continue what they are doing as well as integrate more choice as seems to be the Linux way. I much prefer Gnome, nut KDE, not some other choice I haven't tried, and won't like it if I boot into a new upgrade and find everything so drastically different that I have to relearn how to use my machine...

#721

texaswriter said: Yeah, Metacity works great for things that don't work with compositing managers. It's very basic, yet just as functional as it needs to be without being over the top. Compiz Fusion is VERY ATTRACTIVE and works for when I'm just surfing and messing with music and low-resource programs. It makes my computing experience better. I ROUTINELY switch between Metacity and Compiz in the course of a day of computing. When I go play my game on the Desktop, metacity --replace, done... compiz --replace. Just like that.

Oh, well if you listened to people, Compiz is supposed to be able to let games be visible while both are running.. Gues what??? not true!!!... Guess what, I need to switch between the two. Now you are telling m e I won't have that choice... What if something doesn't work quite right with everything. I mean, Linux is always about getting everything right, usually that has to be done manually. I've never had my ATi work *just right* without doing someting, yeah if I watn just basic driver, but 3d, going to have to install sometihng.

I don't buy it that a compositing manager is going to satisfy even close to everybody all the time. Taking away the choice is lame. Taking away everything key about Gnome will make it something else, plain and simple. I can appreciate that people are trying to make something more appealing and/or streamlined, but like I said in my previous post: Developers rarely take into consideration the wants, needs, and preferences of its users and taking a look at virtually any professional piece of software will prove it. Even the most popular programs I could name are full of bad programming, poor planning, laughable arrangement, etc. As far as I see it, the best possible scenario of this is that you make Ubuntu more attractive to a small selection of *new* users and scare away a large base of current users. Maybe they'll just goto Kubuntu and it's not so bad, or maybe they just jump ship to another distro or OS altogether. That's dissatisfaction for you in a nutshell.

So, here is hoping that Gnome finds a way to continue what they are doing as well as integrate more choice as seems to be the Linux way. I much prefer Gnome, nut KDE, not some other choice I haven't tried, and won't like it if I boot into a new upgrade and find everything so drastically different that I have to relearn how to use my machine...

When I first saw GS, I felt like I wanted to help out best I could. But there's a problem. I'm not a programmer. I'm just a user. So I signed up to the mailing list to voice my opinion in a constructive, productive manner.

What I got initially were negative feedback from the developers. Most of them excused what I had to say and often times would take the time to reply back to me and in a kind way, tell me in a nutshell, "no."

Fast forward about 8 weeks and I install the PPA of GS, which was said to be much improved and much updated since I last used it. BLAM. Everything I recommended in the mailing list was implemented, as well as things that I never thought of that were improvements as well.

So I will say this about GS - it has evolved quite a bit since I originally used it, and all for the better. I feel that there's still things that need to be implemented, and certain things that need to be refined, but it's come a long way.

Plus, from what I understand, GS is written in javascript. I have no doubt there will be a ton of add-ons that will come later on in the game with Gnome. This can be a very explosive implementation if done right.

#722

k3lt01 said: I don't understand how using a mouse, or touchpad on a laptop, is harder than Alt-tabbing. You slide the mouse/touchpad in one easy movement and click/tap so its 2 movements. Alt-tabbing is a new movement for each thing or at least it was in my attempt to use G-S a few weeks ago.

And I don't see how being forced to move my hand away from the keyboard to reach for the mouse is better. Reaching for the mouse certainly isn't any faster for me. If anything, it's slower.

#723

qamelian said: And I don't see how being forced to move my hand away from the keyboard to reach for the mouse is better. Reaching for the mouse certainly isn't any faster for me. If anything, it's slower.

I don't think anyone is 'forcing' you to use the mouse. I think the issue is the solution for keyboard navigation is fine, but there needs to be a more elegant solution for mouse navigation so in the end GNOME Shell has both.

For me the most of my time is spent surfing sites via bookmarks, reading mail and listening to music. My hand very rarely leaves the mouse. Posting this is actually one of the few times it does. In a normal day I could probably go with one hand tied behind my back.

If I'm going to be typing for an extended period of time I won't be switching between windows often if at all that much so its convenience is not an issue.

#724

qamelian said: And I don't see how being forced to move my hand away from the keyboard to reach for the mouse is better. Reaching for the mouse certainly isn't any faster for me. If anything, it's slower.I'm talking about a touchpad, my main machine is a laptop with a touchpad, my right thumb sits on the thing sliding here and there. You have your way, I have mine.

#725

Merk42 said: I don't think anyone is 'forcing' you to use the mouse. I think the issue is the solution for keyboard navigation is fine, but there needs to be a more elegant solution for mouse navigation so in the end GNOME Shell has both.

For me the most of my time is spent surfing sites via bookmarks, reading mail and listening to music. My hand very rarely leaves the mouse. Posting this is actually one of the few times it does. In a normal day I could probably go with one hand tied behind my back.

If I'm going to be typing for an extended period of time I won't be switching between windows often if at all that much so its convenience is not an issue.

I would never argue against more features, it would just be fundamentally changing the experience somebody was used to that I would react against.

#726

Merk42 said: I don't think anyone is 'forcing' you to use the mouse. I think the issue is the solution for keyboard navigation is fine, but there needs to be a more elegant solution for mouse navigation so in the end GNOME Shell has both.

This! It's brilliant!

#727

Roasted said: When I first saw GS, I felt like I wanted to help out best I could. But there's a problem. I'm not a programmer. I'm just a user. So I signed up to the mailing list to voice my opinion in a constructive, productive manner.

What I got initially were negative feedback from the developers. Most of them excused what I had to say and often times would take the time to reply back to me and in a kind way, tell me in a nutshell, "no."

Fast forward about 8 weeks and I install the PPA of GS, which was said to be much improved and much updated since I last used it. BLAM. Everything I recommended in the mailing list was implemented, as well as things that I never thought of that were improvements as well.

Welcome to the world of the Gnome developers. They can be a funny lot at the best of times. I've even found them to be quite rude. But clearly they're quite inventive too, as GS is living proof.

qamelian said: And I don't see how being forced to move my hand away from the keyboard to reach for the mouse is better. Reaching for the mouse certainly isn't any faster for me. If anything, it's slower.

I don't think it's a question of which is faster or easier as that could be a subjective argument. But It's not impossible for any one to train themselves to do something new. I use the Dvorak keyboard layout instead of Qwerty. That took months of getting used to, but I now find it easier and more intuitive than Qwerty.

#728

Roasted said: There's a ton of reasons to keep panels around, and I think Gnome is smart enough to realize this. For example, despite how great 3d compositing on virtual systems may get in the future, what network admin in the right mind would "prefer" to have 3d effects on a server? I know several people, my workplace included, who virtualize desktop versions of Ubuntu (gnome) and use them as servers.

I admit that my knowledge of the X server is limited, but since I am fairly sure I have heard that argument being brought up on the list I assume that there is a way to still run thin clients with GS. I do however agree that a 3D-enabled desktop is maybe not the best for everyone right now, or ever. But I have still not heard anything that says that the Shell will be forced on anyone or that panels will be removed in the near future.

#729

'[h2o] said: I do however agree that a 3D-enabled desktop is maybe not the best for everyone right now, or ever.

I don't think GS is 3D enabled. It's just hardware accelerated. Don't let that nice graphics card go to waste.

#730

Do you guys think (in time, if ever, etc) we'll be able to customize exactly where we can activate the overlay? For example, I ran Kubuntu for a bit and I enjoyed being able to choose which angle or plane of the screen I have to hit to activate the overlay. It'd be nice if I could make the entire top panel of the screen a way to activate the overlay, so I don't have to hot-corner each time.

It's not that the corner is bad, but my dual screen setup at home has my primary monitor on the right side, which means my 2nd monitor is on the left... which means my activities button is right along both. So for me to hot corner on that setup, it's more difficult. On my laptop I just clock the mouse to the corner - blam, overlay. If I clock the mouse to the corner on my desktop, blam, I'm wayyy over on the other monitor.

That way I don't have to judge my distance at all, I can just push the mouse to the edge as fast as I can and know that the "wall" of the monitor will stop me and activate the overlay as I want. It'd be nice to be able to do this with any plane of the monitor, so users with -any- setup can customize it to their needs.

Small thing, but a nice addition if we were to see it as an option.

#731

Just having a play with GS on my laptop and desktop downloaded from the repos.The UI is amazing! but the performance is awful on my rather ageing 1.5Ghz celeron laptop on the desktop q6600 with its great.

Im converted! Gnome 2.x to GS is like Windowz to Ubuntu sooooooo different but so much better.

Looks like its XFCE for the laptop and GS for the desktop.

#732

jayg1169 said: Just having a play with GS on my laptop and desktop downloaded from the repos.The UI is amazing! but the performance is awful on my rather ageing 1.5Ghz celeron laptop on the desktop q6600 with its great.

Im converted! Gnome 2.x to GS is like Windowz to Ubuntu sooooooo different but so much better.

Looks like its XFCE for the laptop and GS for the desktop.

It could be the lack of a decent graphics card as opposed to the processor itself. I ran GS on some very old hardware (with somewhat decent gpu's) and it ran surprisingly good.

Just yesterday I installed GS on my spare rig, which is a 3.0ghz Pentium 4 with 1GB of DDR2 RAM. You would think GS would fly, but gosh, it sucked. Onboard intel video. I put in a very, very simple Nvidia graphics card, PCI, 128mb RAM, and enabled the 173 drivers (they were the most updated that came down through Ubuntu's hardware manager) and blam - GS was flyinggggg.

Just a little food for thought on your situation. Although the Celeron's were not top end proc's, I have found that even older hardware (with a little bit of juice in the graphics card) does well, but a killer proc with an extremely poor graphics card will leave much to be desired.

#733

Roasted said: Do you guys think (in time, if ever, etc) we'll be able to customize exactly where we can activate the overlay?

This is my biggest fear about GS. The design document provides so many justifications for the smallest design decisions, that it sounds as if they didn't want to allow the user to customize that.

For example, the top position of the activities bar and the top left location of the button. There is extensive reasoning explaining both decisions. I really wonder if they will let me put the activities bar on bottom and *break* their intended logic.

#734

Menti said: their intended logic.

It's not logical to have a hot-spot in the same corner as the activities button. But then, I think there is plenty more to come including customizing.

And is anyone else getting black flashes occasionally? If I quit GS and use metacity, it doesn't happen. It may not be GS, but I haven't noticed it before. And I'm using the same nVidia driver I was in Jaunty.

#735

i know i sound whiny, but i dont think its fair to make the new gnome ui only capatable to people with "newer" graphics cards :( compiz works fine on my laptop, but gs runs horribly

#736

libihero said: i know i sound whiny, but i dont think its fair to make the new gnome ui only capatable to people with "newer" graphics cards :(

compiz works fine on my laptop, but gs runs horribly

Well it doesn't sound like they're nuking panels, so you can at least utilize 2.X.

#737

Menti said: This is my biggest fear about GS. The design document provides so many justifications for the smallest design decisions, that it sounds as if they didn't want to allow the user to customize that.

For example, the top position of the activities bar and the top left location of the button. There is extensive reasoning explaining both decisions. I really wonder if they will let me put the activities bar on bottom and *break* their intended logic.

I really can't see Gnome saying hey you can't customize this EVER. I just can't. I don't believe it.

I feel like the Gnome devs are taking a "don't give them too much info" approach.

I work in tech support, and I have to play this same game. If a user is getting a new system and you think you can have it in by friday, don't tell them that. Tell them next month, so that way if something blows up along the way, you still have a cushion to fall back on. If I were to give them an earlier date and things not work out, that puts me in a bad position.

I doubt the Gnome devs want to announce that GS is the end-all be-all of all UI out there right now.

It's in testing stage. It's being worked on. Things that the developers told me "no" about have since been implemented. I just find it hard to believe that GS would be so limited out of the box when it's finally released.

If it gets released tomorrow at the stage it's in now, I'll barf. BUT it's current stage is worlds ahead of what it was just a few weeks ago - paving the way for more features/stability to come.

Trying to stay optimistic here. Let's see what hat-trick these guys pull off.

#738

I just installed Ubuntu Netbook Remix on a VM, and UNR does something that I think would make a LOT of sense in GS.

When you hit the menu to open (what we know in GS as "activites") on UNR, you can open applications and whatnot. Pretty much the same deal. But active applications are showed by an icon right next to "Activities" in the top panel.

That top panel aint doing anything anyway, besides holding Activities, the clock, and the logout menu. Why the hell not incorporate the same thing? Or at least the option to do so? That way it will kind of take away some of the zoom in/out effect in case people don't like having to use the overlay to switch applications.

Genius. GS needs this, in my opinion. Very easy, very logical add-in that could make a lot of users (myself included) very happy.

#739

I'd say make a left sidebar that anchors all running apps or even quick launcher just like Win7's super bar. IMHO it's the most ideal spot because nowadays monitors have too much horizontal space...

#740

Roasted said: I really can't see Gnome saying hey you can't customize this EVER. I just can't. I don't believe it.

I feel like the Gnome devs are taking a "don't give them too much info" approach.

"Every option has a cost". That's GNOME philosophy. Of course config options will be provided in due time, but which ones? Will they allow me to change precisely that small nuisance that drives me mad? I guess that developers see some design decisions as sensible defaults and others as being carved in stone. My problem is that the design document doesn't separate them clearly.

Anyway I'm not that pessimistic. I just wanted to voice my worst fear aloud.

Roasted said: It's in testing stage.

Yes. It's not even a pre-alpha. I would say that half of the complaints I read (here and in the mailing list) could be answered by shouting "at least wait for the beta!". Just remember, for example, that the notification system is not even working yet, and that it is intended to replace the need for a window list.

#741

phenest said:

And is anyone else getting black flashes occasionally? If I quit GS and use metacity, it doesn't happen. It may not be GS, but I haven't noticed it before. And I'm using the same nVidia driver I was in Jaunty.

yes, i do get black flashes (seldom) and sometimes blue ones (there's some blue background defined in the css-file, i should try to modify it to see, if flashes change too). gs must be the guilty one, i don't get them with metacity. it's nvidia here too (gf8400gs, nvidia-glx 185.18.36)

#742

frustphil said: I'd say make a left sidebar that anchors all running apps or even quick launcher just like Win7's super bar. IMHO it's the most ideal spot because nowadays monitors have too much horizontal space...

You could probably make a gnome panel do that.

#743

I really can't see Gnome saying hey you can't customize this EVER. I just can't. I don't believe it.

I feel strange about repeating this, but it seems to be virtually unknown:

By introducing an extension system that lets you tweak every aspect of GS through JS and CSS, without even needing a patch and recompile process, they've effectively said the exact opposite: "You can customize anything and everything".

#744

23meg said: I feel strange about repeating this, but it seems to be virtually unknown:

By introducing an extension system that lets you tweak every aspect of GS through JS and CSS, without even needing a patch and recompile process, they've effectively said the exact opposite: "You can customize anything and everything".

Sorry, but I am a non-technical user and I never fully understood what was written about extensions.

Does that mean that, if plain Gnome Shell doesn't allow changing the location of the activities panel and the notifications panel, a extension could be able to change that?

#745

I read a PDF detailing Gnome Shell design goals, and the only main concern I have is:

It depends on Compositing.

Although many modern machines may have no problem with this, I have found the current builds of Mutter/Shell almost twice as slow at rendering GTK than Metacity (Compositing Enabled) or Compiz. I used gtkperf to test this. If the 3d WM is required wouldn't it compete with other OpenGL apps, or just use more CPU in general? Even the new KDE (which is unusable for me) can utilize the Plasma Desktop without Compositing.

#746

Menti said: Does that mean that, if plain Gnome Shell doesn't allow changing the location of the activities panel and the notifications panel, a extension could be able to change that?

Theoretically, yes.

#747

Menti said: Sorry, but I am a non-technical user and I never fully understood what was written about extensions.

Does that mean that, if plain Gnome Shell doesn't allow changing the location of the activities panel and the notifications panel, a extension could be able to change that?

To simplify it: Think about Firefox and how you can customize there virtually everything through the use of Extensions/Add-ons. Now think of basically the same for Gnome-Shell.

#748

frustphil said: I'd say make a left sidebar that anchors all running apps or even quick launcher just like Win7's super bar. IMHO it's the most ideal spot because nowadays monitors have too much horizontal space...

But again, that's not the answer to everybody. It wouldn't work for me. I'm running a 19 inch monitor on the left, and a 24 inch monitor as primary. Therefore the GS sidebar is right along the edge of both monitors. That means I have to actually calculate the range in which I need to click to use something on it. Take for example my dock, I'm currently running AWN dock on the bottom of my screen. I just move the mouse and the screen edge stops me - blam - dock. Do what I need to do, etc. If the sidebar was absolutely required to be static in that position, it'd piss off a few people out in the world, me included, who have setups like this.

Sure, it seems like such a small thing as to why I wouldn't like it, but it's also such a small request to have an option that's MOVEABLE.

I gotta admit - I REALLY like the Ubuntu Netbook Remix way of handling open apps. I'd love to see this, even as an option, in GS. I submitted it to the mailing list last night - we'll see what's said about it...

#749

Menti said: "Every option has a cost". That's GNOME philosophy. Of course config options will be provided in due time, but which ones? Will they allow me to change precisely that small nuisance that drives me mad? I guess that developers see some design decisions as sensible defaults and others as being carved in stone. My problem is that the design document doesn't separate them clearly.

Anyway I'm not that pessimistic. I just wanted to voice my worst fear aloud.

But despite Gnome's simplistic ideology on the subject, look at how much we can customize Gnome 2.X as it is. If that degree of customizing is blocked off, it's only going to take a stab at Gnome in general. Just last night I was looking at my buddy's Windows 7 laptop. Not bad, not bad. You can do quite a bit in 7. Of course, I kept thinking to myself yep can already do that in Ubuntu, yep that too, yeah that as well. BUT the point is Windows 7 is very customizable, and looks very attractive. Gnome is very customizable, and can be made to look very attractive. If Gnome Shell is locked down to what we see now, that's going to really take away some fun.

I just can't see it happening. I can see them getting 1 method down that's rock solid, stable, and ready to roll. THEN adding features 1 at a time and testing them.

For what it's worth, you hardcore GS users out there who use docks in conjunction with GS, after seeing Ubuntu Netbook Remix and seeing how much I liked the icons of active windows being in the upper corner just next to the Activities button, I tried it out on my laptop, by moving AWN dock to the top of my screen with enough offset (in AWN advanced preferences) to sit the dock below the top GS panel, along with it being semi transparent when not active. Very nice. I dig having the panel at the top with GS. It was kind of a PITA with it at the bottom since each time I moved the mouse to the bottom of the screen, it made the shadow effect from the notification system come up. Anyway, it gives a good feeling to it if you're already a GS + Dock user.

#750

McDuff said: yes, i do get black flashes (seldom) and sometimes blue ones (there's some blue background defined in the css-file, i should try to modify it to see, if flashes change too). gs must be the guilty one, i don't get them with metacity. it's nvidia here too (gf8400gs, nvidia-glx 185.18.36)

I have the same graphics card, and don't have any black or blue flashes, I'm using the nvidia-current drivers 190.53. I'm very happy with the performance.

#751

Roasted said: For what it's worth, you hardcore GS users out there who use docks in conjunction with GS, after seeing Ubuntu Netbook Remix and seeing how much I liked the icons of active windows being in the upper corner just next to the Activities button, I tried it out on my laptop, by moving AWN dock to the top of my screen with enough offset (in AWN advanced preferences) to sit the dock below the top GS panel, along with it being semi transparent when not active. Very nice. I dig having the panel at the top with GS. It was kind of a PITA with it at the bottom since each time I moved the mouse to the bottom of the screen, it made the shadow effect from the notification system come up. Anyway, it gives a good feeling to it if you're already a GS + Dock user.

Can we get a screenshot of this?

I agree with you though, if I'm sure about what you're talking about. Basically you're talking about integrating the titlebar of windows into the activities bar up top?

#752

OlyPerson said: Can we get a screenshot of this?

I agree with you though, if I'm sure about what you're talking about. Basically you're talking about integrating the titlebar of windows into the activities bar up top?

http://blog.lordudun.es/wp-content/uploads/2009/ubuntu_netbook_remix_9_04-300x175.jpg

Check the upper left corner. It's real small, but do you see the Firefox icon? As you open more stuff in UNR, more icons get placed there corresponding with the applications you have open. You can single click that icon and it brings that window up as primary - just like a dock, except it feels a little more integrated and seamless in Ubuntu Netbook Remix.

I think it'd be a nice addition to GS. Even an open that we can activate... it'd compliment GS real nice.

#753

Roasted said: I tried it out on my laptop, by moving AWN dock to the top of my screen with enough offset (in AWN advanced preferences) to sit the dock below the top GS panel, along with it being semi transparent when not active. Very nice.

I did exactly that. I set AWN as window list only, no launchers, I continued using Activities for launching applications. It worked great, I preferred it to plain Gnome shell without window list. I might end up using exactly that in the long term.

#754

Roasted said: http://blog.lordudun.es/wp-content/uploads/2009/ubuntu_netbook_remix_9_04-300x175.jpg

Check the upper left corner. It's real small, but do you see the Firefox icon? As you open more stuff in UNR, more icons get placed there corresponding with the applications you have open. You can single click that icon and it brings that window up as primary - just like a dock, except it feels a little more integrated and seamless in Ubuntu Netbook Remix.

I think it'd be a nice addition to GS. Even an open that we can activate... it'd compliment GS real nice.

I was thinking a screenshot of your AWN+GS desktop your were talking about, but I think I get the point. Something like that would be nice, but I also think it would be nice to see an option to integrate title bars into the activities bar. Would be much appreciated on my 10" scrEEEn.

See what I did there? :P

#755

OlyPerson said: I was thinking a screenshot of your AWN+GS desktop your were talking about, but I think I get the point. Something like that would be nice, but I also think it would be nice to see an option to integrate title bars into the activities bar. Would be much appreciated on my 10" scrEEEn.

See what I did there? :P

Haaaaa, I gotcha. Sure thing. This is on my work laptop that I made the changes to with AWN. As I said, part of the dock was hidden by the top panel when I set it to the top, so I went into the advanced preferences of AWN dock and made the offset far enough down until it was completely visible by the panel. My offset setting was 28 pixels.

I just have AWN set to auto hide keep below, so if I have a full screen window open, AWN hides. If I move the mouse to the clock, it automatically reappears. It's pretty slick. I like the combination. If we could see this functionality, but in the panel itself like UNR, oh man... that'd be pretty sweet.

#756

That would be pretty sweet, I wish they'd just implement something like that and see how people liked it. From what I can imagine it wouldn't be TOO difficult to make something with that basic functionality.

#757

OlyPerson said: That would be pretty sweet, I wish they'd just implement something like that and see how people liked it. From what I can imagine it wouldn't be TOO difficult to make something with that basic functionality.

Well we have the possibility that it might go the other way round, kind of the Firefox route. Developers say "Nay we won't implement it. Don't like/need/want it". Someone then goes to make an Extensions to implement just said function. It becomes immensly popular. Then in the next iteration the developers decide to pick it up "since it seems to be quite popular/actually wanted/usefull after all" and integrate it into the default shell.

#758

bash said: Well we have the possibility that it might go the other way round, kind of the Firefox route. Developers say "Nay we won't implement it. Don't like/need/want it". Someone then goes to make an Extensions to implement just said function. It becomes immensly popular. Then in the next iteration the developers decide to pick it up "since it seems to be quite popular/actually wanted/usefull after all" and integrate it into the default shell.

I wonder why no one has made any extensions yet then, seems like someone would at least make something.

#759

I suppose the Sidebar is like one, though it does not seem to do much.

#760

I would think that extensions may be a little tough right now. GS is changing fast. Could well be like trying to hit a moving target.

It is nice if the bugger just sits there.

#761

NightwishFan said: I suppose the Sidebar is like one, though it does not seem to do much.

Looks like they'll call them Widgets. Look in the Config Editor under /desktop/gnome/shell/sidebar/widgets. So I don't think the sidebar is one, but the stuff on it is. As is the clock.

#762

OlyPerson said: I wonder why no one has made any extensions yet then, seems like someone would at least make something.

For one I don't know if the Extensions system is even completly implemented yet. And further I don't think it would make a whole lot of sense of putting a lot of effort into creating extensions for a application that is far being complete, stable and release ready. There is no guarante that what you programmed today might even still work tomorrow. I only think we will see extensions really taking once shell gets close to release or even only once it gets shipped by default and the "general public" begins to notice and use the shell.

#763

OlyPerson said: That would be pretty sweet, I wish they'd just implement something like that and see how people liked it. From what I can imagine it wouldn't be TOO difficult to make something with that basic functionality.

Yeah. I agree.

I tried out Docky2 from the PPA. Very slick. Very fast. I may be using this full time, but we'll see how it goes. Trying it out on all different angles of the screen. It's oddly nice to use on the side of the screen as well...

Either way, I hope we see something like this integrated into the top panel of GS. It'd compliment it ever so nicely.

#764

Roasted said: I tried out Docky2 from the PPA. Very slick. Very fast. I may be using this full time, but we'll see how it goes. Either way, AWN or Docky2, my dock has relocated to the bottom of the screen - although the dock on the side of the screen is oddly nice to use as well.

Either way, I hope we see something like this integrated into the top panel of GS. It'd compliment it ever so nicely.

I've been using docky split into two- one on the right and left. I look it a lot, will definitely use it if GS doesn't come with some answer by default.

#765

OlyPerson said: I've been using docky split into two- one on the right and left. I look it a lot, will definitely use it if GS doesn't come with some answer by default.

Yeah - I hear ya. I would like to see SOME sort of option integrated, but any option is better than none. :P

#766

I am actually hoping Gnome shell will work out. It seems so far they aren't doing the KDE "half finished feature" development. Every option I have tried on the shell has worked as intended, and what doesn't is simply absent. Keep it up.

#767

NightwishFan said: I am actually hoping Gnome shell will work out. It seems so far they aren't doing the KDE "half finished feature" development. Every option I have tried on the shell has worked as intended, and what doesn't is simply absent. Keep it up.

Indeed, haven't run into many half implemented features.

BTW, big fan of Nightwish, don't like their new singer as much but awesome band in general.

#768

NightwishFan said: I am actually hoping Gnome shell will work out. It seems so far they aren't doing the KDE "half finished feature" development. Every option I have tried on the shell has worked as intended, and what doesn't is simply absent. Keep it up.

You know, considering Gnome Shell isn't even in pre alpha, it's pretty stable. I run it on my work laptop. It crashes on me now and then, sure... but I just run the replace command and get it going again.

I've seen finished software less stable than what I've seen from Gnome Shell so far. It's worth commending them on.

#769

Roasted said: You know, considering Gnome Shell isn't even in pre alpha, it's pretty stable. I run it on my work laptop. It crashes on me now and then, sure... but I just run the replace command and get it going again.

I've seen finished software less stable than what I've seen from Gnome Shell so far. It's worth commending them on.

I have it set up in gconf under /desktop/gnome/session which is where Gnome suggest. /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/shell gnome-shell (no need for --replace) /desktop/gnome/session/required_components_list [shell,filemanager]

That way, if it crashes, it will restart itself.

#770

Question. Is there a way to currently disable the notification system, so when my mouse hits the bottom of the screen I don't get the little bit of a black haze that shows up for the notification panel? I figured since it's not all there, I'd disable it a while so it doesn't come up each time I hit my panel (since I'm using my panel on the bottom again).

#771

Another question - does anybody have any issues with GS in dual screen mode? On my desktop when I run GS and I go into overlay mode, every time I hover over a window, the text of that window disappears and won't re-appear unless I go out of the overlay mode and then go back in it. I don't have this issue on my laptop, though.

#772

Roasted said: Question. Is there a way to currently disable the notification system, so when my mouse hits the bottom of the screen I don't get the little bit of a black haze that shows up for the notification panel? I figured since it's not all there, I'd disable it a while so it doesn't come up each time I hit my panel (since I'm using my panel on the bottom again).

It's kind of a hack, but you could probably go to /usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui and rename/delete notificationDaemon.js. Not sure if it'll screw up other stuff.

I've been messing around with some of the .js files and the css and I am definitely excited for people to start developing for it. I think someone should come up with a cool theme using the CSS- doesn't seem too difficult.

EDIT: Ok so I did what I suggested and it kinda messed stuff up so I'd take a different approach, but you get the idea.

EDIT 2: Just go to /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme/gnome-shell.css and comment out of the "message tray" bit (I believe lines 555-574), then restart GS (Alt+F2 then type in restart).

#773

Decided to give this Gnome 3 more of a shot.

In my first person shooters I like having the BFG. Having a BFL for my applications, not so much.

That's my one big complaint, everything else I could live with.

Minor annoyances...

If you don't have Nautilus set to draw the desktop, then you get no wallpaper Screenshot

After running the gconf-editor to set Nautilus to draw the desktop I found the icons on the desktop are no longer created by .desktop files in a directory somewhere that can just be deleted, so it's back to gconf-editor again to figure out where that stuff is.

So now if I am on a workspace with no running application or the applications are minimized I have this damn file-manager thingy on the bar that I can't do anything with Screenshot, in my Ubuntu install it shows as x-nautilus-desktop Screenshot but other than that, same thing.

Later, Seeker

#774

Seeker - Are you running Gnome Shell from the repos or did you grab the PPA? I had that problem when I ran it from the repos but I later got the PPA version and it seemed better.

Also - did you dump Gnome Shell on top of KDE? That mouse cursor looks like the KDE one in the first screenshot...

#775

OlyPerson - You said you were running Docky2 split up with Gnome Shell - how did you do that? Screenshot, perhaps? :)

#776

I'm using GS from the PPA, and I've just had an update. Instead of that lovely big + in the bottom right of the over-view, there is now a tiny one. Seems daft as it doubles up as a drag-and-drop zone. It should be at least as large as the launcher icons, and it should be on the left of the screen so I don't have to drag launchers all the way across the screen. That's about my only gripe at the moment.

#777

Does anyone know if GS will support GTK theming? The scrollbar on the over-view suggests not.

#778

phenest said: Does anyone know if GS will support GTK theming? The scrollbar on the over-view suggests not.

I believe that mostly all the theming of the basic GS is css, much easier to code for. I'm not really sure about applications though? I'm not really sure what's what with GTK theming.

#779

Roasted said: Seeker - Are you running Gnome Shell from the repos or did you grab the PPA? I had that problem when I ran it from the repos but I later got the PPA version and it seemed better.

Also - did you dump Gnome Shell on top of KDE? That mouse cursor looks like the KDE one in the first screenshot...

The screenshots with the white cursor are Ubuntu running Gnome. I don't think I have ever changed the cursor on that one.

The screenshot with the blue cursor is my Debian installation running Gnome.

I'm at work right now using the chameleon-sky-blue cursor theme which is similar to the one in the Debian Screenshot, but I'll have to look when I get home to see if that's the same one I'm using in Debian or if it's one I downloaded somewhere else.

Never went out of my way to get Gnome shell, in Ubuntu it's from the stock repositories, in Debian it's from the Debian repository - unstable.

Later, Seeker

#780

Roasted said: OlyPerson - You said you were running Docky2 split up with Gnome Shell - how did you do that? Screenshot, perhaps? :)

Well really there's just one on both sides of the screen, split up to have applications and places on different sides. I'll attach a screenshot, and notice the panel's transparency- I've been messing around with GS's css a little bit :p

#781

Wow, if I can get compiz to work right (from what I can tell it is working somewhat but not right) with the exorg.edgers and the 33 kernel, I am going to try this.

That screen shot is of a desktop I think I could really like using. I do not use a dock now. Panels are enough for me. I still think I could use that desktop very comfortably.

#782

ranch hand said: Wow, if I can get compiz to work right (from what I can tell it is working somewhat but not right) with the exorg.edgers and the 33 kernel, I am going to try this.

That screen shot is of a desktop I think I could really like using. I do not use a dock now. Panels are enough for me. I still think I could use that desktop very comfortably.

Yeah, I really enjoy this setup because it facilitates any form of interaction I want easily (keyboard or mouse). That's why I think they should include some dock into GS, it integrates much better than in gnome-panels and it definitely adds usability.

Docky is my choice because I feel it is more integrated into the desktop than both AWN and cairo-dock. Additionally, it is much 'simpler', as in it doesn't have 500 options like cairo-dock and I could never get AWN to be stable for some reason.

#783

Roasted said: Seeker - Are you running Gnome Shell from the repos or did you grab the PPA?

Tried it with the PPA now. Same thing with the wallpaper. And in addition to that if I type 'gconf' in the find box it doesn't show me a result that includes the gconf-editor and typing 'config' in the find box doesn't either. Grrr!!!

That mouse cursor looks like the KDE one in the first screenshot...

The cursor theme I'm using in that shot is JustBlue.

Later, Seeker

#784

Can anybody confirm if they have Gnome Shell running without issues on a dual screen setup? Things are still weird on my twinview setup...

#785

Is the Gnome Shell in the PPA much better than the one in the main repository? Also, which exact PPA is best?

#786

NightwishFan said: Is the Gnome Shell in the PPA much better than the one in the main repository? Also, which exact PPA is best?

Yes. The repo version doesn't get updated, whereas the PPA one does, so you have a more "live" version of it.

This is the PPA I use:

http://ubuntu-tweak.com/source/ricotz-testing/

#787

I am really bummed. With xorg.edgers and the 2.6.33-999 kernel I still can't run compiz at full functionality and GS (from repo) still will not run. It has improved to the point that I can get the tty prompt up to reboot.

I will do it again tomorrow and write down the errors. They are different but the system is frozen when they show up and I can't copy/paste/save them or print them. It is an advance. But not enough.

#788

Fantastic. The new gnome shell is worth it. I love the notifications, though I had to disable a gconf setting in Empathy for it to show up in my panel.

#789

NightwishFan said: Fantastic. The new gnome shell is worth it. I love the notifications, though I had to disable a gconf setting in Empathy for it to show up in my panel.

Notification, do you mean those in the bottom?

#790

Yes, they work especially well with Rhythmbox. Also, further note I found out you can enable the Empathy notification icon by deselecting "Use Message Indicators" in Empathy preferences.

#791

NightwishFan said: Fantastic. The new gnome shell is worth it. I love the notifications, though I had to disable a gconf setting in Empathy for it to show up in my panel.

I agree, definitely worth it.

One thing I was wondering other people's opinions on was something I was thinking about the other day- Ubuntu tries to be competitive with other modern OSs yet still strives to be usable on older computers- the other operating systems (read Windows and OSX) do not have this issue. At what point should Ubuntu abandon deprecated hardware in favor of what is newer in order to be more competitive? Is this what we're starting to see with GS?

And yes I realize GS isn't Ubuntu specific, but I think if Ubuntu adopts this new tech it's a step forward with competing. And I do realize there is compiz but that really isn't quite the same. Also, gnome-panels (and x,k,flux, etcbuntu) will still be available to people whose computers can't run GS.

#792

I would rather the shell be usable on either, however I will not complain. I like Gnome regardless. KDE is sticking it's neck out too far. I no longer can use software that is nearly finished, and decides to restart and give us a fancy widget system and a load of half-finished programs..

#793

OlyPerson said:

And yes I realize GS isn't Ubuntu specific, but I think if Ubuntu adopts this new tech it's a step forward with competing. And I do realize there is compiz but that really isn't quite the same. Also, gnome-panels (and x,k,flux, etcbuntu) will still be available to people whose computers can't run GS.

While you are right about GS not being Ubuntu specific, there's some sort of additional "home-like" feeling that comes with GS and Ubuntu knowing just how much time and energy Shuttleworth is putting into the project as well.

#794

Can anybody see a way currently to integrate ANYTHING whatsoever into the top panel? I keep looking at that panel thinking there HAS to be a way to add a task manager applet to it or something.

I also tried to find ways to make Docky appear on top of the panel, so it's not halfway hidden by the panel itself. But that didn't work either.

I guess I'm just trying to mimic some sort of dock-like task manager into the area of the panel to get a task management feeling of ubuntu netbook remix into it all...

#795

Roasted said: Can anybody see a way currently to integrate ANYTHING whatsoever into the top panel? I keep looking at that panel thinking there HAS to be a way to add a task manager applet to it or something.

I also tried to find ways to make Docky appear on top of the panel, so it's not halfway hidden by the panel itself. But that didn't work either.

I guess I'm just trying to mimic some sort of dock-like task manager into the area of the panel to get a task management feeling of ubuntu netbook remix into it all...

I'm pretty sure it's impossible by design. I see your post on the mailing list went the one of two ways a suggestion goes "completely ignored" (the other being argued against because it doesn't fit their "vision")

#796

Merk42 said: I'm pretty sure it's impossible by design.

I see your post on the mailing list went the one of two ways a suggestion goes "completely ignored" (the other being argued against because it doesn't fit their "vision")

Their vision? That's ********. Their vision is to make Gnome Shell user friendly and easy to use. Right now there's no logical way to switch through active applications without the use of Alt Tab and the overlay mode. There needs to be something more or this thing won't get mass used as they want it.

Come on, developers.

EDIT - This calls for another email to the mailing list.

#797

Roasted said: Their vision? That's ********. Their vision is to make Gnome Shell user friendly and easy to use. Right now there's no logical way to switch through active applications without the use of Alt Tab and the overlay mode. There needs to be something more or this thing won't get mass used as they want it.

The problem with your posts is that you present your vision with adjectives like "logical" and "easier" and more or less ignores the fact that it's a matter of opinion. Thus, you indirectly insult those who do not agree.

Ever since I started using the Compiz scale/expo plugins with hot corners, I lost all need for a taskbar and my usage is very mouse-centric. The gnome-shell approach is very close to how I use my computer right now and I don't feel it's keyboard centric at all.

For me, it's a matter of opinion. You have every right to be unconfortable with Gnome-shell. But when I read your recent posts, the impression I have is that I don't have the right to feel confortable. Both in here and the mailing lists, the impression I have is that you are calling me an idiot who likes the "logically harder" approach. I know you don't have such intention, but impression counts.

My suggestion is that you should start to list solid technical reasons for a taskbar or at least convincing arguments about how this decision is controversial enough that the best approach is to offer both choices. Remember: the Gnome philosophy is that "because you can" is not a good reason to customize. All customization options should be throughly thought to see if they are worthy the extra complexity they introduce. And "because that's what people are used to" is not a good reason either, because if we were to always follow that logic I'd never have tried multiple desktops when coming from Windows.

Also remember, Linux is NOT about choice.

#798

I have no problem with competing against the like of MS and Apple, or even the other Linux's for that matter, competition is healthy and makes for wider choice for the consumer.

OlyPerson said: Also, gnome-panels (and x,k,flux, etcbuntu) will still be available to people whose computers can't run GS. See this is what concerns me, will Gnome 2.x still be available? Can anyone confirm how long Gnome intend to keep 2.x going for. I can't see them supporting 2.x beyond the range of 18 months or 2 years after Gnome3 (G-S) is released. If that happens there is a slight problem for some who don't want to change to Xu/Ku/Flux/etc/buntu. 2.x supports older hardware nicely but at this time G-S just doesn't.

#799

Keyper7 said: The problem with your posts is that you present your vision with adjectives like "logical" and "easier" and more or less ignores the fact that it's a matter of opinion. Thus, you indirectly insult those who do not agree.

Ever since I started using the Compiz scale/expo plugins with hot corners, I lost all need for a taskbar and my usage is very mouse-centric. The gnome-shell approach is very close to how I use my computer right now and I don't feel it's keyboard centric at all.

For me, it's a matter of opinion. You have every right to be unconfortable with Gnome-shell. But when I read your recent posts, the impression I have is that I don't have the right to feel confortable. Both in here and the mailing lists, the impression I have is that you are calling me an idiot who likes the "logically harder" approach. I know you don't have such intention, but impression counts.

My suggestion is that you should start to list solid technical reasons for a taskbar or at least convincing arguments about how this decision is controversial enough that the best approach is to offer both choices. Remember: the Gnome philosophy is that "because you can" is not a good reason to customize. All customization options should be throughly thought to see if they are worthy the extra complexity they introduce. And "because that's what people are used to" is not a good reason either, because if we were to always follow that logic I'd never have tried multiple desktops when coming from Windows.

Also remember, Linux is NOT about choice.

I apologize that you got the completely wrong impression from my posts. That was not my intention and I'm not really sure how you dug that up, but it is what it is.

I was presenting my "logical" standpoint from the simple fact that a huge number of Gnome Shell users out there are on the same page I am. I'm just the guy who's not afraid to present it in a demeanor to get the developers to actually look at my suggestion.

I've made several suggestions, the initial ones coming off with a tone that was "Hey I really like your work guys, if at all possible perhaps this would be an idea worth considering..." etc. But what happened? It got rejected. Tossed under the desk. Whatever. Didn't care. How's that for an open source attitude? "Hey guys, email us your suggestions!" OH, wait, yeah, we already have a game plan laid out so yeah let's just ignore these incoming posts.

I'm sick of seeing all of these users on the same page and the developers simply saying "No." For something as big as Gnome, it's not something I find acceptable.

Bottom line is this. If you like the way it's laid out now, that's great. I have said time and time again, it's not that I'm saying this is how it HAS to be and that's it - what I've presented every single time was there is a problem. The problem is simple. A lot of users out there are not liking the lack of an easy way to switch between active windows. Some users like Alt-Tab. Some users like overlay. Great. Use what works for you. THAT'S what I've said every single time I've presented my ideas - mailing list included. And because of that, I find it to be such a stretch to assume that I was indirectly calling you a moron.

Despite all of this, my opinion still stands. I believe there needs to be some sort of option for the users out there who want to have some sort of easier (and on screen) way to navigate between windows, besides Alt+Tab and besides the overlay.

If you want to assume I'm still insulting you, fine. I'm not going to back down from my opinion because somebody is taking the words I say in the opposite manner they were intended for.

#800

So, by design it's impossible to switch tasks with one mouse click? Is this true?

If that is the case, then Gnome Shell will not be received well.

#801

gsmanners said: So, by design it's impossible to switch tasks with one mouse click? Is this true?

If that is the case, then Gnome Shell will not be received well.

Currently yes, though I'm sure some will be pedantic and say "no" as going to the overlay doesn't require a click.

#802

gsmanners said: So, by design it's impossible to switch tasks with one mouse click? Is this true?

If that is the case, then Gnome Shell will not be received well.

I guess it depends. "Technically" it's one mouse click, because when you hover the mouse over the Activities menu, it does go into overlay mode, and from there you can single click to bring up the corresponding window as the primary one.

Search on YouTube for videos on Gnome Shell if you haven't installed it already to get a better feel of how it works. I love the overlay and I love what it's capable of. I also like how I can simply hover over each window and use the scroll wheel to zoom in/out of only that window. It's an interface that is very slick.

But in essence, there is no on-screen way to switch between applications without going into overlay mode or utilizing the alt-tab feature on the keyboard.

As some users have said, they're fine with it as is. But I feel like there needs to be an additional option to help out for those of us who want something more. I suppose we could use docks. I just hate feeling that way though... knowing there's no integrated method to handle that task. It makes GS look like an unfinished product that requires that last bit of duct tape to hold together. Granted, I suppose it is since it's barely even in alpha stage yet... but I'm speaking from the standpoint of "if it were released tomorrow..."

Again, just my opinion.

#803

Merk42 said: Currently yes, though I'm sure some will be pedantic and say "no" as going to the overlay doesn't require a click.

I guess it depends on your setup, as well.

At home I use dual screen monitors, with my secondary monitor on the left, which means the "Activities" button is along the border/corner of my primary monitor. My mouse can continue traveling beyond the hot corner, which makes it pretty much impossible to activate the overlay WITHOUT clicking.

On my laptop, it's a different story, since my mouse will hit the corner and stop, activating the hot corner accordingly. But like I said, my desktop isn't in the same boat. The mouse will just skim right past the sweet spot to activate the overlay, making clicking (in this particular instance) pretty much a requirement.

#804

I don't know if it is ok to introduce a new thread or question, but here it goes: using gnome-shell (I must say I think UI here is brilliant), how can I know if I had received a new message in evolution or in empathy? Notification works ok if you are looking constantly at your screen... if this is not the case, there was a little envelope next to the clock in previous versions which changes the colour until you click on it... (indicating you are aware of the messages). Is there something similar in gnome-shell???

Thanks for your attention!

#805

ramarcos said: I don't know if it is ok to introduce a new thread or question, but here it goes: using gnome-shell (I must say I think UI here is brilliant), how can I know if I had received a new message in evolution or in empathy? Notification works ok if you are looking constantly at your screen... if this is not the case, there was a little envelope next to the clock in previous versions which changes the colour until you click on it... (indicating you are aware of the messages). Is there something similar in gnome-shell???

Thanks for your attention!

Going by the mockup, notifications are supposed to get more like this http://www.gnome.org/~mccann/shell/mockups/20090630-demo/

#806

ramarcos said: I don't know if it is ok to introduce a new thread or question, but here it goes: using gnome-shell (I must say I think UI here is brilliant), how can I know if I had received a new message in evolution or in empathy? Notification works ok if you are looking constantly at your screen... if this is not the case, there was a little envelope next to the clock in previous versions which changes the colour until you click on it... (indicating you are aware of the messages). Is there something similar in gnome-shell???

Thanks for your attention!

Gnome Shell has a notification system - something I really like. At the bottom of the screen it will show you new instant messages as well as track changes in your media player. It's something that's not fully implemented yet, but what I've seen so far is nice.

Are you using Gnome Shell from the repo? Or are you using the PPA? I ask this because the repo version is old and isn't updated, whereas the PPA one is. Maybe that's why you're not seeing the notification system in your install.

#807

Roasted said: Gnome Shell has a notification system - something I really like. At the bottom of the screen it will show you new instant messages as well as track changes in your media player. It's something that's not fully implemented yet, but what I've seen so far is nice.

Are you using Gnome Shell from the repo? Or are you using the PPA? I ask this because the repo version is old and isn't updated, whereas the PPA one is. Maybe that's why you're not seeing the notification system in your install.

I'm using it from http://ppa.launchpad.net/ricotz/testing/ubuntu

I don't know if it is the most up-to-date version. Well... I am receiving notifications when the event happens (someone sends an IM, a mail is received, a new song is playing, etc.) but, in the case of messaging, this notification disappears and the only trace is an icon ("i" standing for information, i guess), in bottom-right that vanishes when I click on it... with no further information or action...

it seems to be a previous or buggy version of http://www.gnome.org/~mccann/shell/mockups/20090630-demo

any ideas??

#808

ramarcos said: I'm using it from http://ppa.launchpad.net/ricotz/testing/ubuntu

I don't know if it is the most up-to-date version. Well... I am receiving notifications when the event happens (someone sends an IM, a mail is received, a new song is playing, etc.) but, in the case of messaging, this notification disappears and the only trace is an icon ("i" standing for information, i guess), in bottom-right that vanishes when I click on it... with no further information or action...

it seems to be a previous or buggy version of http://www.gnome.org/~mccann/shell/mockups/20090630-demo

any ideas??

That's the same thing I have, and I'm using the same PPA.

The notification system has a ways to go yet before it's fully working. I've heard people refer to it as a small taste of what's to come. I take that as the notification system should be substantially better when it's finalized.

#809

Merk42 said: Going by the mockup, notifications are supposed to get more like this

http://www.gnome.org/~mccann/shell/mockups/20090630-demo/

Man. I was hoping that would have given a quick demo about the instant messaging part. I can see there in the demo you can control rhythmbox from it, which is basically no different than it being at the top right that 2.X currently has. But what about IMs? Do you think we'll be able to actually click on the IM in the notification system to bring it to attention?

Or do we need the overlay to switch to that, too?

#810

Although I am quite excited right now with the interface and I think I could get used to it quite easily, another thing that bothers me: when clicking on a link received in empathy or evolution, the link opens but firefox does not get the focus... is this ok for you? I would expect not having to go to Activities and click on firefox...

#811

Roasted said: I apologize that you got the completely wrong impression from my posts. That was not my intention and I'm not really sure how you dug that up, but it is what it is.

First of all, there is nothing to apologize because I clearly said I know that it was not your intention.

Second, it's not difficult to see how your posts can sound insulting depending on who hears it: you are claiming that something is "better" and "easier", but that largely depends on the user. It's like people who flat-out say that the default Ubuntu theme is ugly and "should" be changed: so people who like it have poor taste and like ugly things?

Roasted said: I was presenting my "logical" standpoint from the simple fact that a huge number of Gnome Shell users out there are on the same page I am.

And I'm willing to bet a huge number of users are not. And also, that a huge number of users would like Hannah Montana as the default wallpaper.

For this argument to be relevant, there is the need of either (a) reliable statistics showing that the number of unhappy users is significant (statistics taken from a specific thread of a specific section of a specific board of a specific distro is hardly reliable) or (b) more solid foundation such as detailed usability studies and experience reports (obs: "I didn't like it because it's different than what I used to" is not a valid experience report)

Roasted said: I'm just the guy who's not afraid to present it in a demeanor to get the developers to actually look at my suggestion.

And my point is that your demeanor does not make developers look at your suggestion. It only makes them take you less seriously, as someone who claims something is "better" without technical justification.

Roasted said: I've made several suggestions, the initial ones coming off with a tone that was "Hey I really like your work guys, if at all possible perhaps this would be an idea worth considering..." etc. But what happened? It got rejected. Tossed under the desk. Whatever. Didn't care. How's that for an open source attitude? "Hey guys, email us your suggestions!" OH, wait, yeah, we already have a game plan laid out so yeah let's just ignore these incoming posts. I'm sick of seeing all of these users on the same page and the developers simply saying "No." For something as big as Gnome, it's not something I find acceptable.

You are confusing politeness with objectiveness. The first is important and I applaud you for not forgetting it, but the second is essential. I didn't see all of your posts, but the ones I saw had no convincing arguments whatsoever, only "it's better", "it's easier", "there exists people who agree with me".

In my opinion, the one who is simply saying "no" is you.

Roasted said: Bottom line is this. If you like the way it's laid out now, that's great. I have said time and time again, it's not that I'm saying this is how it HAS to be and that's it - what I've presented every single time was there is a problem. The problem is simple. A lot of users out there are not liking the lack of an easy way to switch between active windows. Some users like Alt-Tab. Some users like overlay. Great. Use what works for you. THAT'S what I've said every single time I've presented my ideas - mailing list included. And because of that, I find it to be such a stretch to assume that I was indirectly calling you a moron.

Despite all of this, my opinion still stands. I believe there needs to be some sort of option for the users out there who want to have some sort of easier (and on screen) way to navigate between windows, besides Alt+Tab and besides the overlay.

(emphasis mine)

Here you go again. So the current ways are not easy?

Saying "use whatever works for you" is useless if right after you say "but we need a better way".

Roasted said: If you want to assume I'm still insulting you, fine. I'm not going to back down from my opinion because somebody is taking the words I say in the opposite manner they were intended for.

I never assumed that, as it's very clear in my previous post.

Please notice that I'm not saying you are wrong in wanting changes, or asking for them. I'm trying to help you to present a better case and be better heard in the list. Please do not take my words in the wrong way, I'm often guilty of wrong tone myself. :)

#812

Roasted said: I guess it depends. "Technically" it's one mouse click, because when you hover the mouse over the Activities menu, it does go into overlay mode, and from there you can single click to bring up the corresponding window as the primary one.

So, it's basically just hiding the panel (aka "overlay") by default. The panel is a vertical panel rather than the standard horizontal and it uses thumbnails rather than window buttons.

I wonder if it's possible to keep the "overlay" visible all the time rather than hidden by default. Maybe with a more compact design that wouldn't use as much screen real estate. Or has this all been "yes, but"-ed to death already?

#813

gsmanners said: So, it's basically just hiding the panel (aka "overlay") by default. The panel is a vertical panel rather than the standard horizontal and it uses thumbnails rather than window buttons.

I wonder if it's possible to keep the "overlay" visible all the time rather than hidden by default. Maybe with a more compact design that wouldn't use as much screen real estate. Or has this all been "yes, but"-ed to death already?

That would take up too much screen real estate (you can see pictures of the overlay in the first post)

The downside I see to the overlay is that the buttons are floating there. The panel to switch applications currently has an "infinite height", this is lost in the overlay.

#814

Keyper7 said:

Second, it's not difficult to see how your posts can sound insulting depending on who hears it: you are claiming that something is "better" and "easier", but that largely depends on the user. It's like people who flat-out say that the default Ubuntu theme is ugly and "should" be changed: so people who like it have poor taste and like ugly things?

I can also change the theme if I don't like it. Because I have that option.

And I'm willing to bet a huge number of users are not. And also, that a huge number of users would like Hannah Montana as the default wallpaper.

Again, I can still change the wallpaper. I have the ability to do that.

For this argument to be relevant, there is the need of either (a) reliable statistics showing that the number of unhappy users is significant (statistics taken from a specific thread of a specific section of a specific board of a specific distro is hardly reliable) or (b) more solid foundation such as detailed usability studies and experience reports (obs: "I didn't like it because it's different than what I used to" is not a valid experience report)

Well, I didn't exactly take a survey. It's just based on common talk that I've shared here with other users, along with Ubuntu-using friends/family in real life as well as the Ubuntu and Gnome IRC channel. There are only 2 people who outright told me "I like Gnome Shell as is and would use it in a heartbeat. It needs nothing else." Everyone else argued (if they voiced an opinion) that they wanted a way to see what applications are actively running on the screen. If this option was not implemented, they would either:

A - stick with 2.X until it dies. B - go to KDE or XFCE. C - find a fork of Gnome that would still utilize the 2.X style panels. D - simply use a dock.

I did not do an official survey, no. But I'm a big boy now. I can count beyond 2... and I can assure you the users who were comfortable with it as-is was not exceeding 2. But hey, it's still in development. Who knows what'll happen tomorrow/next week/next month, etc.

And my point is that your demeanor does not make developers look at your suggestion. It only makes them take you less seriously, as someone who claims something is "better" without technical justification.

I don't know what official things I need to show developers it's something that's worth integrating. It's an option that a lot of users want to see. A lot of users are saying if they DON'T see it, they won't use Gnome Shell and would simply jump ship to another interface. A lot of them are saying they would just use a dock to fill in the void Gnome Shell leaves open.

I've spoken to developers. Nobody listened. If my demeanor is, what you call, unprofessional - so be it. I'm voicing my opinion. I've tried the nice route, and I was ignored. I want the developers to consider this suggestion, or else I feel like a lot of hardcore current Gnome fans will be rather upset come d-day.

You are confusing politeness with objectiveness. The first is important and I applaud you for not forgetting it, but the second is essential. I didn't see all of your posts, but the ones I saw had no convincing arguments whatsoever, only "it's better", "it's easier", "there exists people who agree with me".

In my opinion, the one who is simply saying "no" is you.

If only I didn't delete my former emails I received from the mailing list, I could show you exactly where certain developers told me that feature would not get implemented. The ironic part is, it ended up getting implemented anyway. There were 3 or 4 things I suggested to the GS mailing team, and they simply said no, it won't happen, this is why, it doesn't fit with what we're trying to do, etc. So I bailed. I went to KDE. After KDE drove me crazy I figured I'd suck it up and force myself to like GS. Guess what? Grabbed the updates for GS, fired it up - well look at that. The very same features I suggested are implemented. Because of me? Oh gosh, I doubt it. I would only assume enough other users voiced their opinion while I was off in KDE land to make it a worthy adjustment in the eyes of the developers.

I really don't know what kind of justification is needed for some sort of dock-like or ubuntu netbook remix-like task manager to be implemented. It's just easier. It's my opinion. I'm not calling you stupid and I'm not calling anybody else stupid. I'm not insulting anybody whatsoever. I'm telling you, as a user of Gnome Shell, I feel as though it is lacking in "XYZ" department for "ABC" reasons. Period. That's where I was saying it was easier, it needs to have a more logical way to manage tasks - and I'm saying that because I firmly believe it. It's an opinion. Not an insult. There's a difference.

I understand the overlay, and quite honestly - I love it. I even used an overlay-like feature in KDE. But I used the overlay in tandem with the panel. It was so convenient because I could mix and match how I went about my business on my computer. Having to zoom in/out whenever I want to switch from pidgin to firefox to thunderbird to exaile to pidgin again back to firefox over to remote desktop viewer and on to open office, etc. When you're a huge multitasker and you're bouncing through at on of windows, the zooming in/out of the overlay constantly can be sickening. I love it. But I like utilizing the overlay for specific things - not for "everything." And yeah, alt-tab is there too. It's nice when I'm bouncing between pidgin/firefox over and over, but to utilize it as my main way to sift through applications? It aint working. At least for me, it aint working.

Here you go again. So the current ways are not easy?

Saying "use whatever works for you" is useless if right after you say "but we need a better way".

No, it's not useless. You're happy with using the overlay to switch through active tasks, correct? Okay, good. The conversation does not need to go further because you are happy with how Gnome Shell works. That's what matters to you. That's where the debate ends. I however am not happy with the way I'm forced to use it to manage open tasks. But it's such a crapper because the user interface is so genius and so cleanly laid out. I'm not asking for a complete overhaul to cater to MY needs. I just think it'd be a nice feature. An option. Something to go into the control panel and enable. For example, take Windows XP. You have to enable the quick launch in order to put icons in your taskbar. I LOVE that. It's genius! I use it all the time at work. Why can't we have something like that for the relatively large user base who supports it and wants it?

It's important to realize that everybody is different, and everybody will have different needs and desires when using a computer. That's what makes Linux so great because there's so much we can do with it. Don't like a panel? Kill it. Want a dock? Download it. Want two docks? Docky2 can handle that. Want no panels and just a dock to handle everything? That's an option too. Want icons in the top panel to quick launch items? Yep, it's possible. The list goes on and on and on.

Maybe I'm just having a severe mental block here or something, but I just honestly do not see what is so bad about adding additional features (and a minor one at that) that a large amount of GS users would probably like. I'm trying to do my best as a faithful user of Ubuntu/Gnome to voice my opinion because I am convinced that somebody other than myself will enable that feature (if it gets implemented) and be like, aww yeah! I get this! I like it!

I'd really like to see some sort of an option available, because I know there will be other users out there who will utilize it.

#815

NightwishFan said: Yes, they work especially well with Rhythmbox. Also, further note I found out you can enable the Empathy notification icon by deselecting "Use Message Indicators" in Empathy preferences.

Is this the notification icons in the bottom pane, as shown in the mockup? If so, how did you get them, I have the lastest version from the rictoz ppa and I don't get any icons on the status bar panel

#816

HalfEmptyHero said: Is this the notification icons in the bottom pane, as shown in the mockup? If so, how did you get them, I have the lastest version from the rictoz ppa and I don't get any icons on the status bar panel

I think that's just the proposed "what it will be like" demo. The notification system is not fully implemented yet.

#817

The PPA version has very nice looking notification popups (sort of like ayatana) on the bottom, but no other functionality to them yet. Compositing being required makes me a bit leery, however KDE is not an option. So I might be in limbo if Gnome Shell is poor. I suppose I can use XFCE though.

#818

Now, I don't care what people think about Gnome-Shell itself there is enough argument already about whether people love or hate it, however I am extremely attached to certain compiz effects and am not happy about giving them up, so I ask (I haven't tried Gnome-Shell yet, admittedly) is there any way to get the following effects, either through another program being written to replace compiz or through built in settings in Gnome Shell?

I cannot live without at least one terminal embedded in my desktop (which I find works best using compiz), and I really don't want to go without the "cube" (preferably wrapped into a cylinder) and beyond I'd like to keep the maximize/minimize/open/close effects so if anyone has any insight into how one might keep/produce these effects in gnome-shell then I'll be perfectly happy to use it. In fact I'll use it anyway but I'll be much happier if I can keep some of these things over from gnome 2.*.

#819

I'd like to post something I recently encountered. I ended up speaking to several of the Gnome Shell developers, who were nothing short of awesome to talk to. While it is apparent that they have a vision and a specific way they want to see Gnome Shell implemented, there's a sense of flexibility I felt when I was talking with them. There's a lot of ideas floating on the table... ideas that just might address the several dislikes other users might have in regard to certain things about Gnome Shell... including mine, in regard to my feelings about the task management system.

The bottom line is, they hear us loud and clear, and are taking baby steps with implementing different ideas to see what the reaction of the users are. They encourage heavy usage of Gnome Shell and constructive feedback because at the end of the day, it's only going to help.

I just wanted to share my 2 cents on what I recently experienced. I have no doubt now that Gnome Shell will land with a decent following of users. The optimism and the "well, let's try this first and see how it goes, then if not we'll figure out an alternative" approach definitely sounds promising.

Let's see what happens tomorrow/next week/month... :popcorn:

#820

Merk42 said: That would take up too much screen real estate (you can see pictures of the overlay in the first post)

That's too bad. I can't really consider this a serious replacement for a panel if it has to be hidden most of the time. It isn't worth the bother of testing if it removes vital features like knowing what you're running at a glance.

#821

k3lt01 said: See this is what concerns me, will Gnome 2.x still be available? Can anyone confirm how long Gnome intend to keep 2.x going for. I can't see them supporting 2.x beyond the range of 18 months or 2 years after Gnome3 (G-S) is released. If that happens there is a slight problem for some who don't want to change to Xu/Ku/Flux/etc/buntu. 2.x supports older hardware nicely but at this time G-S just doesn't.

Don't know how long it is planned to provide Gnome 2.x compatibility.

If what your really wanted to know is.....

Will I still be able to use Metacity and the panel with Gnome 3?

Then the answer is yes. I don't know how long it will be maintained as an official part of Gnome, but I expect it will be around for some time to come. Sawfish hasn't been part of Gnome for quite some time, but it is still maintained, and you can still use it as your window manager in Gnome.

As far as maintaining compatibility with older machines is concerned, I started using LXDE on one of my machines and I kind of like it for that. A little bit different of a menu structure for the applications, but it's organized in a reasonably sane way.

Later, Seeker

#822

seeker5528 said: Don't know how long it is planned to provide Gnome 2.x compatibility.

If what your really wanted to know is.....

Will I still be able to use Metacity and the panel with Gnome 3?

Then the answer is yes. I don't know how long it will be maintained as an official part of Gnome, but I expect it will be around for some time to come. Sawfish hasn't been part of Gnome for quite some time, but it is still maintained, and you can still use it as your window manager in Gnome.

As far as maintaining compatibility with older machines is concerned, I started using LXDE on one of my machines and I kind of like it for that. A little bit different of a menu structure for the applications, but it's organized in a reasonably sane way.

Later, Seeker I have Lubuntu 10.04 on the this test platform and it is looking good. Working quite well.

#823

Both GS and UNR are very, *very* slow on my netbook with Intel graphics, anybody else experiencing this?

#824

NCLI said: Both GS and UNR are very, *very* slow on my netbook with Intel graphics, anybody else experiencing this?

Which Intel card are you using? I'm not running a netbook, but my Dell Latitude E5500 has an Intel card and GS is pretty snappy on it.

#825

945 GME. Maybe it has to do with Clutter?

#826

NCLI said: 945 GME. Maybe it has to do with Clutter?

I'm not sure which mine has, but I'm running it on a netbook too (asus eeepc 1000h) and later builds have been running a little slower. The only slow parts are activating the overlay (which randomly takes a lot of time for no apparent reason) and clicking on applications or recent items. I have no idea why those take so long.

#827

OlyPerson said: I'm not sure which mine has, but I'm running it on a netbook too (asus eeepc 1000h) and later builds have been running a little slower. The only slow parts are activating the overlay (which randomly takes a lot of time for no apparent reason) and clicking on applications or recent items. I have no idea why those take so long.

"lspci" should get you the card or controller you are using.

#828

Thanks, didn't know that command. I also have the 945GME.

#829

I just found the first instance of the notification system being interactive- I was listening to some Iron Mask on Banshee and the song ended and it went to the next song and the notification appeared on the bottom of the screen. Normally it doesn't do anything but this time when I moused over it it popped out a bit and had a button I could press to skip the song.

When did this start?? Very pleased to see improvements like this.

#830

Sweeeeeet :popcorn:

#831

OlyPerson said: I just found the first instance of the notification system being interactive- I was listening to some Iron Mask on Banshee and the song ended and it went to the next song and the notification appeared on the bottom of the screen. Normally it doesn't do anything but this time when I moused over it it popped out a bit and had a button I could press to skip the song.

When did this start?? Very pleased to see improvements like this.

I'm not seeing this with Rhythmbox.

#832

Has anyone experienced the problems I've detailed here?

I want to see the progress made over the past few months!

#833

I have just upgraded to the latest kernel (through Update Manager) on Karmic. Gnome shell has just failed with a > 'push model' error. The symptoms being that I can no longer interact with any windows that are open. In the end I had to reboot the machine.

#834

ok. We've got 'Add to favorites' in 'Activities' but: using this I only can add some app which is already started. What if I need set something before?? I've got a scripts witch at the end starts main program - and I need start this script (not only a program). How can I add this script to 'Favorites'??? Adding already started program results adding a main program (no a script).

EDIT: in detail: I mean some java program, script looks like this:

java -jar -Xmx512m ~/../../JDownloader/JDownloader.jar

this runs main java jar. And of course I cannot add this to Favorites using 'Add to favorites'. This does not work - after that GS not know how to run this again. So I need to add this mannualy by editing some file (I think) or in some other way - but how?

#835

phenest said: I'm using GS from the PPA, and I've just had an update. Instead of that lovely big + in the bottom right of the over-view, there is now a tiny one. Seems daft as it doubles up as a drag-and-drop zone. It should be at least as large as the launcher icons, and it should be on the left of the screen so I don't have to drag launchers all the way across the screen. That's about my only gripe at the moment.

The window menu's have now changed and they no longer include the option to move a window to another workspace. So for me, these 2 changes makes using workspaces harder.

phenest said: Does anyone know if GS will support GTK theming? The scrollbar on the over-view suggests not.

I didn't word that very well. Can GS be themed, or are we stuck with the plain black look?

#836

phenest said: I didn't word that very well. Can GS be themed, or are we stuck with the plain black look?

It's really easy to theme. It's based on CSS so you can do pretty much anything theme wise. One of my favorite things to do is make stuff transparent, although every time GS updates it erases everything and you have to do it again.

So I've been looking at gs extensions and it seems like it wouldn't be hard to create an extension for switching between windows in the panel. I might start looking into making one.

#837

holy crap.... i put GS on my eeePC 701 and it FLIES!

I love you, gnome devs.

#838

xtoudi said: ok. We've got 'Add to favorites' in 'Activities' but:

using this I only can add some app which is already started. What if I need set something before?? I've got a scripts witch at the end starts main program - and I need start this script (not only a program). How can I add this script to 'Favorites'??? Adding already started program results adding a main program (no a script).

EDIT: in detail: I mean some java program, script looks like this:

java -jar -Xmx512m ~/../../JDownloader/JDownloader.jar

this runs main java jar. And of course I cannot add this to Favorites using 'Add to favorites'. This does not work - after that GS not know how to run this again. So I need to add this mannualy by editing some file (I think) or in some other way - but how?

You can make a .desktop file for it in your ~/.local/ tree I expect. Alternatively you could put it under /usr/local/share/applications/.

The addition of the .desktop file should make the menu system pick up a new executable command (when you click it, the Exec line will be run; similar to a Windows .lnk file). Just take an example .desktop file from /usr/share/applications/ as template, modify to meet your need. Make sure the .desktop file you save is executable; make sure the files you refer to (the jar) are executable as well.

#839

phenest said: The window menu's have now changed and they no longer include the option to move a window to another workspace. So for me, these 2 changes makes using workspaces harder.

If you referring to workspaces being like a wall, you do know you can switch it back to the grid layout, right?

#840

I have finally got G-S working reasonably ok, albeit a little slow, I still feel that G-S is to resource hungry for my little laptops specifications. So I believe that unless the developers make it lighter than it currently is that it will be practically unusable for lighter spec computers.

Anyway having said that invoking gnome-shell has brought up a few errors and warnings within the terminal which I will post here.

michael@michael-lucid:~$ gnome-shell --replace
      JS LOG: conforming method: IntrospectRemote for org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable
      JS LOG: Loading tweener.js
      JS LOG: Loading tweenlist.js
      JS LOG: Done loading tweenlist.js
      JS LOG: Done loading tweener.js
      JS LOG: conforming method: SetStatusRemote for org.gnome.SessionManager.Presence
      JS LOG: Loading equations.js
      JS LOG: Done loading equations.js
      JS LOG: GNOME Shell started at Sat Feb 06 2010 13:41:19 GMT+1100 (EST)
Window manager warning: Log level 16: IA__g_object_set_valist: construct property "type" for object `ShellEmbeddedWindow' can't be set after construction
Window manager warning: Log level 16: IA__g_object_set_valist: construct property "type" for object `ShellEmbeddedWindow' can't be set after construction
Window manager warning: Log level 16: IA__g_object_set_valist: construct property "type" for object `ShellEmbeddedWindow' can't be set after construction
      JS LOG: Failed to acquire org.freedesktop.Notifications; trying again
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_window_set_user_time: assertion `!window->override_redirect' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_window_raise: assertion `!window->override_redirect' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_window_focus: assertion `!window->override_redirect' failed

** (gnome-control-center:5412): WARNING **: 
error raised: [libslab_get_gconf_value: error getting /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/lock-down/user_modifiable_apps]


** (gnome-control-center:5412): WARNING **: 
error raised: [load_xbel_store: couldn't load bookmark file [NULL]
]


** (gnome-control-center:5412): WARNING **: get_actions_list() - PROBLEM - Can't load gtk-theme-selector.desktop


** (gnome-control-center:5412): WARNING **: get_actions_list() - PROBLEM - Can't load gnome-cups-manager.desktop

Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_window_set_user_time: assertion `!window->override_redirect' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_window_raise: assertion `!window->override_redirect' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_window_focus: assertion `!window->override_redirect' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_window_set_user_time: assertion `!window->override_redirect' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_window_raise: assertion `!window->override_redirect' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_window_focus: assertion `!window->override_redirect' failed
#841

Reiger said: You can make a .desktop file for it in your ~/.local/ tree I expect. Alternatively you could put it under /usr/local/share/applications/.

The addition of the .desktop file should make the menu system pick up a new executable command (when you click it, the Exec line will be run; similar to a Windows .lnk file). Just take an example .desktop file from /usr/share/applications/ as template, modify to meet your need. Make sure the .desktop file you save is executable; make sure the files you refer to (the jar) are executable as well.

No, I have launcher (.desktop) file already in Menu (Gnome menu) - I need to add this to Gnome-Shell Favorites. This happens if you need to add some program which runs another process (main process). And after that if you need to add this to favorites you can only use 'Add to favorites' (right click on running icon) - but this adds only a 'second/main' process.

#842

Merk42 said: If you referring to workspaces being like a wall, you do know you can switch it back to the grid layout, right?

That's not what I'm referring to. Window menus now only have the option to Minimize, Restore, Maximize, or Close. You can no longer use it to send a window to anther workspace. Coupled with the fact that the + icon on the overview (for adding workspaces) is so small for dragging and dropping (making it harder to use), it now take more mouse clicks to start an app in a separate workspace.

Trying starting an app in a new workspace by dragging its icon over the + icon. Or moving a window from a workspace to the + icon.

#843

phenest said: That's not what I'm referring to. Window menus now only have the option to Minimize, Restore, Maximize, or Close. You can no longer use it to send a window to anther workspace. Coupled with the fact that the + icon on the overview (for adding workspaces) is so small for dragging and dropping (making it harder to use), it now take more mouse clicks to start an app in a separate workspace.

Trying starting an app in a new workspace by dragging its icon over the + icon. Or moving a window from a workspace to the + icon.

No problem with that. I can drag an Icon to new or other workspace, I can move a window from one to another workspace (grid view) - no problems.

And yes: dragging an icon to (+) is not working any more but now I don't need it.

I'm using WS from git so it's always up to date.

#844

xtoudi said: No problem with that. I can drag an Icon to new or other workspace, I can move a window from one to another workspace (grid view) - no problems.

And no problems here either.

xtoudi said: And yes: dragging an icon to (+) is not working any more but now I don't need it.

And it was this that made using workspaces so much easier/intuitive. Now it's hardly worth it.

xtoudi said: I'm using WS from git so it's always up to date.

I'm using the ppa which is pretty up to date too.

PS The flickering issue I mentioned a few posts back was an nvida issue which I solved by using the nVidia Server Setting app to create the xorg.conf. The flickering was just more pronounced it GS, but not a GS issue it would seem.

#845

phenest said: That's not what I'm referring to. Window menus now only have the option to Minimize, Restore, Maximize, or Close. You can no longer use it to send a window to anther workspace. Coupled with the fact that the + icon on the overview (for adding workspaces) is so small for dragging and dropping (making it harder to use), it now take more mouse clicks to start an app in a separate workspace.

Trying starting an app in a new workspace by dragging its icon over the + icon. Or moving a window from a workspace to the + icon.

dragging the icon over the + icon doesn't work any longer, and that's (imo)indeed a step back. the window menu, however, still has the option to send a window to other workspaces (see screenshot), but only if you already have added one or more of them. what does not always work (depending on the actual version from git) is the option in window-menu to send to a workspace by its number&#8212;since yesterday it is broken again.

#846

phenest said:

PS The flickering issue I mentioned a few posts back was an nvida issue which I solved by using the nVidia Server Setting app to create the xorg.conf. The flickering was just more pronounced it GS, but not a GS issue it would seem.

what changes did the app do to your xorg.conf?

#847

McDuff said: dragging the icon over the + icon doesn't work any longer, and that's (imo)indeed a step back. the window menu, however, still has the option to send a window to other workspaces (see screenshot), but only if you already have added one or more of them. what does not always work (depending on the actual version from git) is the option in window-menu to send to a workspace by its number—since yesterday it is broken again.

This must've been broken for a while as I did not have those options, but now they have returned. The + sign does need addressing as the earlier version which is the repos (with the large + icon) worked great. In fact, the workspace layout/use was the main reason GS captured my attention.

McDuff said: what changes did the app do to your xorg.conf?

The monitor refresh rate. Even though all configuration apps showed the correct rate, it wasn't in the xorg.conf. I simply used the one offered by the nVidia app (without merging), et voila.

#848

OK - I checked and now the small + is working - just drag an icon on the small + and the new workspace appears and in it running program. But this is to small!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: .... I don't need any special targeting on that small (+) - it's working dragging an icon over area around (+) ... but imho it's still to small.

#849

xtoudi said: OK - I checked and now the small + is working - just drag an icon on the small + and the new workspace appears and in it running program.

But this is to small!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: .... I don't need any special targeting on that small (+) - it's working dragging an icon over area around (+) ... but imho it's still to small.

now as you said that, i tried again—had to do it several times to find the targetting area. it really does work, but the drop area really should be bigger.

#850

xtoudi said: OK - I checked and now the small + is working - just drag an icon on the small + and the new workspace appears and in it running program.

But this is to small!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: .... I don't need any special targeting on that small (+) - it's working dragging an icon over area around (+) ... but imho it's still to small.

What I'm resorting to doing is, dragging an icon or a window by its bottom right corner so the mouse cursor reaches the + first, thus aiding targeting. But, I agree, it's far too small. This needs to be taken up with the Gnome devs. Who's feeling brave?

#851

OlyPerson said: It's really easy to theme. It's based on CSS so you can do pretty much anything theme wise. One of my favorite things to do is make stuff transparent, although every time GS updates it erases everything and you have to do it again.

OK .... so how can I make anything transparent?? Without extensions if it's easier.

#852

wouldn't it be great being able to drag and drop a folder from places to one desktop and having it opened there? (just as if it were a program or a document from "recently used")... i think it is useful too having this possibiltiy when you use the "find" box... if you find and application, why not drag and drop it in the workspace you want and not in the active one by clicking??

#853

I've used the shell now =) (it actually started without crashing when I launch a window!!!)

Now if only I could figure out what sense it's supposed to make? And... can we have our common sense + speed back?

#854

I've used the shell now =) (it actually started without crashing when I launch a window!!!)

Now if only I could figure out what sense it's supposed to make? And... can we have our common sense + speed back?

#855

rolandixor said: I've used the shell now =) (it actually started without crashing when I launch a window!!!)

Now if only I could figure out what sense it's supposed to make? And... can we have our common sense + speed back?

Use it more. Once I got into my comfort zone, shell was pretty wicked fast to use. I would not agree with other users here by saying it's faster than 2.X to use, I would simply say it's different and it's an interface I DO like more.

It still needs work, but things are progressing along nicely from what I see.

#856

xtoudi said: OK .... so how can I make anything transparent?? Without extensions if it's easier.

if you have built gs from source, go to ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/data/theme and work on the file gnome-shell.css

#857

Roasted said: Use it more. Once I got into my comfort zone, shell was pretty wicked fast to use. I would not agree with other users here by saying it's faster than 2.X to use, I would simply say it's different and it's an interface I DO like more.I'm now running it on 2, my laptop and desktop and it would be 3 if you count that I have Lucid and Karmic on my laptop, and I can tell you that it is slow on machines like my laptop that don't have spare resources.

The desktop is pretty good so it will become my main testing unit for G-S.

#858

xtoudi said: OK .... so how can I make anything transparent?? Without extensions if it's easier.

If you didn't build it from source go to /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme/gnome-shell.css and you can change what you what to be transparent. Here's an example of how to change the panel: Originally:

#panel {
    color: #ffffff;
    font-size: 16px;
    background-gradient-direction: vertical;
    background-gradient-start: #161616;
    background-gradient-end: #000000;
}

Change to:

#panel {
    color: #ffffff;
    font-size: 16px;
    background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0.75);
}

The rgba can handle transparency. Note that every time GS updates it will be erased.

#859

k3lt01 said: I'm now running it on 2, my laptop and desktop and it would be 3 if you count that I have Lucid and Karmic on my laptop, and I can tell you that it is slow on machines like my laptop that don't have spare resources.

The desktop is pretty good so it will become my main testing unit for G-S.

While I am surprised at how low of resources Gnome Shell requires to run nicely, I still call BS on the fact it can be ran on "any system that can already handle 2.X fine."

It definitely requires some more video resources. I compare it to KDE. KDE runs slick, but it needs a little more oomph in the video department than 2.X. Well, so does Shell IMO.

#860

OlyPerson said: The rgba can handle transparency. Note that every time GS updates it will be erased.

I figured out this before but thanks!! :-) Now except transparency (with dark blue hue looks very nice) I know how to crash a GS in some very sophisticated ways ;-)

#861

xtoudi said: I figured out this before but thanks!! :-)

Now except transparency (with dark blue hue looks very nice) I know how to crash a GS in some very sophisticated ways ;-)

Better too much help than too little!

Screenshot of dark-blue hues and transparency?

#862

OlyPerson said: Better too much help than too little!

Screenshot of dark-blue hues and transparency?

to many changes ... need to rebuild all (GS is dead;)) and change css again.

#863

xtoudi said: to many changes ... need to rebuild all (GS is dead;)) and change css again.

What'd you do to do that??

#864

OlyPerson said: What'd you do to do that??

I did changes also in other files.

#865

xtoudi said: I did changes also in other files.

Ok I was wondering how you'd manage to break GS by altering CSS. Possible, but difficult.

So general questions: What kind of stuff are extensions supposed to cover?

#866

OK, try this:

#panel {
    color: #ffffff;
    font-size: 16px;
    background-gradient-direction: vertical;
    background-color: rgba(50,90,50,0.98);
}

You'll be suprised.

EDIT looks like this ....

#867

xtoudi said: OK, try this:

#panel {
    color: #ffffff;
    font-size: 16px;
    background-gradient-direction: vertical;
    background-color: rgba(50,90,50,0.98);
}

You'll be suprised.

Doesn't look to good with a yellow/orange sunset background haha I think a dark black transparency looks best.

#868

OlyPerson said: Doesn't look to good with a yellow/orange sunset background haha I think a dark black transparency looks best.

Agree, I'm trying ... and trying ... so many colors;-)

I also like dark themes but this is so fun.

but ... dark is dark...

#869

xtoudi said: Agree, I'm trying ... and trying ... so many colors;-)

I also like dark themes but this is so fun.

but ... dark is dark...

It's cold where you live! Rarely gets that cold here.

I still like my desktop a lot, working out great- I'll take a screenshot with the playback notification active:

#870

OlyPerson said: It's cold where you live! Rarely gets that cold here.

I still like my desktop a lot, working out great- I'll take a screenshot with the playback notification active:

Looks nice but fonts are too big ... and top panel if gradient/transparent looks better imho. that's only my opinion.

Looking for possibility setting background/transparent image in overlay mode (apps, places and deivces, recent items....that area). Or better - a whole overlay ... nice dark transparent with background image - the same as desktop background...

.... and ... your question: Poland ;)

#871

xtoudi said: Looks nice but fonts are too big ... and top panel if gradient/transparent looks better imho. that's only my opinion.

Looking for possibility setting background/transparent image in overlay mode (apps, places and deivces, recent items....that area). Or better - a whole overlay ... nice dark transparent with background image - the same as desktop background...

.... and ... your question: Poland ;)

Ah, Poland, makes sense.

The reason my font LOOKS so big is that I have a tiny screen (10" netbook) so size 16 font actually looks big. My resolution is only 1024 x 600. I'm really, really, really looking forward to getting a new computer... 14" screen, Core i5, dedicated graphics, HDMI out... if only.

#872

xtoudi said: Looks nice but fonts are too big ... and top panel if gradient/transparent looks better imho. that's only my opinion.

Looking for possibility setting background/transparent image in overlay mode (apps, places and deivces, recent items....that area). Or better - a whole overlay ... nice dark transparent with background image - the same as desktop background...

.... and ... your question: Poland ;)

xtoudi, out of topic: what are the widgets in the right hand side of the sceen? where can I get them?

cold out there... never gets so cold here... :)

thank you!!

#873

ramarcos said: xtoudi, out of topic: what are the widgets in the right hand side of the sceen? where can I get them?

cold out there... never gets so cold here... :)

thank you!!

it's conky (http://conky.sourceforge.net/ or you can use repo). And at the bottom also conky (two RSS conky).

And you need some time to prepare your .conkyrc file.

#874

Roasted said: While I am surprised at how low of resources Gnome Shell requires to run nicely, I still call BS on the fact it can be ran on "any system that can already handle 2.X fine."

It definitely requires some more video resources. I compare it to KDE. KDE runs slick, but it needs a little more oomph in the video department than 2.X. Well, so does Shell IMO.It's only yesterday I was able to get it to run on this laptop, 2.x is still my preference with regards to this machine simply because it doesn't bog down like it does with G-S.

I must say thought that G-S runs very nicely on my desktop and as long as their are no major dramas I think I will make it the default on it. I just need to read through this thread again for tips on what can be played with so I can see how far I can go with it.

#875

I was running latest gnome-shell (from the ricotz/testing ppa) and recently 1) it started getting unstable, it would crash pretty often 2) they have added a (imo) stupid autohide bar at the bottom and recently it has replaced the beautiful ubuntu notications.

So i downgraded to gnome-shell from karmic repos. I hope this won't remain like this, as then i won't be excited to update to lucid :(

#876

SKLP said: I was running latest gnome-shell (from the ricotz/testing ppa) and recently 1) it started getting unstable, it would crash pretty often 2) they have added a (imo) stupid autohide bar at the bottom and recently it has replaced the beautiful ubuntu notications.

So i downgraded to gnome-shell from karmic repos. I hope this won't remain like this, as then i won't be excited to update to lucid :(

2) is intentional.

As I said before, going by this mockup it isn't full implemented yet, which is why it isn't part of the pictures in the first post of this thread.

#877

Still waiting on a dock-like integrated feature to GS. :) :) :) :)

#878

SKLP said: I was running latest gnome-shell (from the ricotz/testing ppa) and recently 1) it started getting unstable, it would crash pretty often...

So i downgraded to gnome-shell from karmic repos. I hope this won't remain like this, as then i won't be excited to update to lucid :(

The same reason I've done that. I was getting graphics corruption on a large scale by just moving the mouse cursor.

I've noticed it's not possible to add some apps as a favourite, such as Thunderbird. If you check in gconf-editor, instead of adding thunderbird.desktop it adds window:0x7f45c002b680 ! And if you correct this in gconf-editor, when thunderbird launches, you have 2 application icons in GS.

#879

Merk42 said: 2) is intentional.I bet it is. But I've always disliked bars set to autohide :/

#880

What the hell happened? I just applied some updates and fired up Gnome Shell on my desktop (the one that was problematic for me) and not only is GS running normally, but it's just plain damn fast. Wow...

#881

If you are building from source or have a real current build you got a big mesa change.....``` Use GL_MESA_pack_invert if available Use GL_MESA_pack_invert if available to avoid doing flipping in software. https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=609053

#882

autocrosser said: If you are building from source or have a real current build you got a big mesa change.....```

Use GL_MESA_pack_invert if available Use GL_MESA_pack_invert if available to avoid doing flipping in software. https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=609053


If you look in the code you'll see that there is no such changes with this git commit. And there is no any speedup on my laptop - everything is going so fast as usual :-).
#883

I think that activating the overlay is a little faster but most things are already fast enough that it would be hard to notice any difference. Except for populating the applications menu.

What speed increases did you see?

#884

xtoudi said: If you look in the code you'll see that there is no such changes with this git commit. And there is no any speedup on my laptop - everything is going so fast as usual :-).

Things were fast on my laptop, but piss slow on my desktop. It was slow especially to open the "Applications" menu in the overview... but now on my desktop it's much quicker, and actually use-able.

#885

Roasted said: Things were fast on my laptop, but piss slow on my desktop. It was slow especially to open the "Applications" menu in the overview... but now on my desktop it's much quicker, and actually use-able.

Actually yeah I did notice that application becomes MUCH faster after the first time you click on it. Maybe it caches the data? It's instantaneous the second+ time you click on it.

#886

OlyPerson said: Actually yeah I did notice that application becomes MUCH faster after the first time you click on it. Maybe it caches the data? It's instantaneous the second+ time you click on it.

much faster, you're right!

#887

xtoudi said: If you look in the code you'll see that there is no such changes with this git commit. And there is no any speedup on my laptop - everything is going so fast as usual :-).

I'm looking at the commit & see several things that "can" speed things up---depending on ones hardware....... http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/commit/?id=c88d21d487fe6105ddd5e3c047edd4dd7f033b44

#888

I've tried the ppa version of GS in Debian (squeeze testing) and it performs much better than in Lucid.

#889

There is a new animated ripple effect at hot corner (git version). Nice but .... there is a lot of work and ... only new effects....???

I know that I shouldn't be so tedious....

#890

I tried to test in Debian, but I can never get Debian working...

#891

NightwishFan said: I tried to test in Debian, but I can never get Debian working...

Why not?

#892

It'll probably be a matter of firmware. Debians ships not quite as broad a selection as Ubuntu does. It can be a bit of pain figuring out what firmware it is you need to wget from where and woe betide you if you get the wrong firmware revision for your kernel...

#893

I have to report that the flickering is GS. I have the git installed on Jaunty and it's flickering the same as on Lucid.

#894

xtoudi said: There is a new animated ripple effect at hot corner (git version). Nice but .... there is a lot of work and ... only new effects....???

I know that I shouldn't be so tedious....

And some more icons in the user menu.

#895

phenest said: And some more icons in the user menu.

The menu in the upper right? Same as it's always been for me

#896

Merk42 said: The menu in the upper right? Same as it's always been for me

In the git version. I don't remember seeing them in the ppa/repo version. Or I maybe very unobservant.

#897

phenest said: In the git version. I don't remember seeing them in the ppa/repo version. Or I maybe very unobservant.

I just built it from source right after I saw your post, and it looks the same as the picture in the first post of this thread.

#898

Merk42 said: The menu in the upper right? Same as it's always been for me

Yes, the same. There are 7 commit changes for now today. (http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell). Quite a lot.

#899

;)

#900

phenest said: ;)

Not using default theme, your argument is invalid ;)

I'm surprised to see MORE icons as a recent trend in GNOME has been to remove them.

#901

phenest said: ;)

Oooooh, I like the theme. Your own brand?

#902

Merk42 said: Not using default theme, your argument is invalid ;)

I'm surprised to see MORE icons as a recent trend in GNOME has been to remove them.

Better?

#903

I don't know if this has already been covered or not, and atm I really don't feel like reading 91 pages to see if it has ;), but I think they need to do more work on the application selector. If someone new comes to Ubuntu, or any version of Linux using G-S as the default, how will they know what programs are available on their system (i.e. already installed)?

There is the favourite list and the scroll list but they don't include everything. So in the future if someone new starts using Ubuntu with G-S they may think Ubuntu doesn't have many programs installed and this would be incorrect simply because G-S hasn't listed them at all and the new user may not know what they are called so they wont know what to search for.

#904

I just noticed the new Undo feature when you add a new application to your favorites well. It's neat. :)

#905

k3lt01 said: I don't know if this has already been covered or not, and atm I really don't feel like reading 91 pages to see if it has ;), but I think they need to do more work on the application selector. If someone new comes to Ubuntu, or any version of Linux using G-S as the default, how will they know what programs are available on their system (i.e. already installed)?

There is the favourite list and the scroll list but they don't include everything. So in the future if someone new starts using Ubuntu with G-S they may think Ubuntu doesn't have many programs installed and this would be incorrect simply because G-S hasn't listed them at all and the new user may not know what they are called so they wont know what to search for.

I'm amazed at how many users find this an issue. I find GS quicker to use than using a panel. Alt-tabbing is faster than moving a mouse to the panel each time. As for newcomers, how did they manage with the existing system? They learnt.

The application list in GS shows the same apps as in a menu for me. Admittedly, the search feature should search using description and category as well as name.

#906

Jay_Bee said: I just noticed the new Undo feature when you add a new application to your favorites well. It's neat. :)

Where? How?

#907

phenest said: Where? How?

Add sth to favorites and top bar will appear (overview mode).

#908

phenest said: The application list in GS shows the same apps as in a menu for me. Admittedly, the search feature should search using description and category as well as name.

Applications that were in old system and preferences menus are not visible unless you search for them. I'm sure that will be fixed though. By the way, search works for the description, but not yet for category, I just tried it.

#909

You can use the Control Center under the menu on the right.

#910

Jay_Bee said: By the way, search works for the description, but not yet for category, I just tried it.

Perhaps it needs tags too. I need to be able to type 'video' or 'dvd' as well as 'movie' for Totem to show up.

#911

Just updated the Ricotz Gnome Shell, and it is fantastic! There is a new ripple when you open the activities, and the animations for the different workspaces are great. Defiantly worth a look.

#912

I use GS all the time but I want to ask if someone knows if there is something similar to Zoom in and Out pluggin from Compiz, I believe is the only thing missing for me to absolutely love GS.

In compiz I am used to the Super + Scroll to zoom in and out, can this pluggin or idea be ported to the shell ?

#913

phenest said: I'm amazed at how many users find this an issue. I find GS quicker to use than using a panel. Alt-tabbing is faster than moving a mouse to the panel each time. As for newcomers, how did they manage with the existing system? They learnt.

The application list in GS shows the same apps as in a menu for me. Admittedly, the search feature should search using description and category as well as name.

It may be faster for you doesn't mean it is faster for those that primary have their hand on the mouse

GNOME 2.X has both good mouse and keyboard options, why can't GNOME Shell?

At any rate that's not even what k3lt01 was talking about. k3lt01 was referring to the giant list once you click applications in the overlay as opposed to the categorized Accessories, Games, Etc of GNOME 2.X

#914

Merk42 said: It may be faster for you doesn't mean it is faster for those that primary have their hand on the mouse

GNOME 2.X has both good mouse and keyboard options, why can't GNOME Shell?

At any rate that's not even what k3lt01 was talking about. k3lt01 was referring to the giant list once you click applications in the overlay as opposed to the categorized Accessories, Games, Etc of GNOME 2.X

Like I said, users should learn to use the keyboard as well as the mouse. It's then faster for all. I expect Gnome devs will incorporate equal mouse and keyboard support in time.

k3lt01 did refer to the application selector. A somewhat confusing term as it could refer to launching or switching. Even still, I don't see what's difficult about it how it stands now. It's like some users are afraid of wearing out their mouse buttons. OMG! 2 clicks instead of 1! Sheesh! Not everything can be 1 click away. Something has to give.

#915

phenest said: Like I said, users should learn to use the keyboard as well as the mouse. It's then faster for all. I expect Gnome devs will incorporate equal mouse and keyboard support in time.

Users *should* learn? I know how to utilize keyboard shortcuts, and I swear by it. BUT - There are times I have my hand on the mouse. There are times I have my hand on the keyboard. There should (keyword - SHOULD) be equal support in terms of efficiency for both the mouse and keyboard. Period, done, over, fact. If there's not, there are users out there who will find Gnome Shell to be a bust - and as much as I like Gnome Shell, I will be part of that group.

I still for day to day usage utilize 2.X with my dock instead of a panel. Why? Because it's faster for me. I'd love to use Gnome Shell full time, but until a solution is found, I need to stay efficient.

#916

The one of the most horrible thing in GS for me is their redesigned Alt+Tab. It's an app switcher now, not proper Alt+Tab which is used for quick switching between apps. The proper behaviour is: Alt+Tab switch an app at once. The GS Alt+Tab activates Alt+Tab overlay but keeps current app. It's highly unlikely they will change this behaviour.

#917

pomnikus said: The one of the most horrible thing in GS for me is their redesigned Alt+Tab. It's an app switcher now, not proper Alt+Tab which is used for quick switching between apps. The proper behaviour is: Alt+Tab switch an app at once. The GS Alt+Tab activates Alt+Tab overlay but keeps current app. It's highly unlikely they will change this behaviour.

I agree, I don't like the alt-tab behavior very much. For me the biggest annoyance is switching between windows of the same application. I wish there was a way to not have to use alt+` to switch between windows of the same application and instead just display all open windows instead.

#918

Phenest you totally missed the point. I'm not going to get into another argument over alt-tabbing/mouse/touchpad control, been there done that.

My pointy IS that the application list within the activites section isn't complete in any sense of the word like it is in 2.x. You say new users should learn, how do they learn what programs are on their system if they are not even listed? maybe type each letter of the alphabet until they get a match? Yeah right that'll be really quick for them wont it.

Somethings has to give, I agree with you. How about listening to what people are really saying instead of going off on your own tangent.

#919

k3lt01 said: Phenest you totally missed the point. I'm not going to get into another argument over alt-tabbing/mouse/touchpad control, been there done that.

My pointy IS that the application list within the activites section isn't complete in any sense of the word like it is in 2.x. You say new users should learn, how do they learn what programs are on their system if they are not even listed? maybe type each letter of the alphabet until they get a match? Yeah right that'll be really quick for them wont it.

Somethings has to give, I agree with you. How about listening to what people are really saying instead of going off on your own tangent.

I agree. I feel like it's something that's being put off as long as remotely possible. I've posted in this thread no less than 40 times that I feel like there should be an Ubuntu-Netbook-Remix-like window/application switcher in the top panel of GS. It just... makes sense.

#920

Roasted said: Users *should* learn? I know how to utilize keyboard shortcuts, and I swear by it. BUT - There are times I have my hand on the mouse. There are times I have my hand on the keyboard. There should (keyword - SHOULD) be equal support in terms of efficiency for both the mouse and keyboard. Period, done, over, fact. If there's not, there are users out there who will find Gnome Shell to be a bust - and as much as I like Gnome Shell, I will be part of that group.

I still for day to day usage utilize 2.X with my dock instead of a panel. Why? Because it's faster for me. I'd love to use Gnome Shell full time, but until a solution is found, I need to stay efficient.

That's what I said, except you've over-emphasized on it. The keyboard can, and should, be used to navigate your desktop and application rather than rely solely on the mouse. There are actions that can be performed far quicker via the keyboard than using the mouse, and vice versa. There are plenty of actions I do via the mouse, but I don't have my hand next to the mouse at all. It's about utilizing a piece of hardware that is largely unused unless you're typing a letter, and has between 80 and 100 keys (or more). How many more actions can be performed by the keyboard than the mouse? And they're all direct actions.

k3lt01 said: Phenest you totally missed the point.

The only point I will make is that GS is 7/8 months away from release and it's not even alpha. If you feel it needs more options/features then tell the Gnome devs rather than hope they'll put it in. Try and see what it is they're trying to develop here, instead of whine like it's a finished product. I can see the potential of GS, and the devs aim. I'd at least wait until it's alpha/beta before I start complaining.

#921

phenest said: That's what I said, except you've over-emphasized on it. The keyboard can, and should, be used to navigate your desktop and application rather than rely solely on the mouse. There are actions that can be performed far quicker via the keyboard than using the mouse, and vice versa. There are plenty of actions I do via the mouse, but I don't have my hand next to the mouse at all. It's about utilizing a piece of hardware that is largely unused unless you're typing a letter, and has between 80 and 100 keys (or more). How many more actions can be performed by the keyboard than the mouse? And they're all direct actions.

The only point I will make is that GS is 7/8 months away from release and it's not even alpha. If you feel it needs more options/features then tell the Gnome devs rather than hope they'll put it in. Try and see what it is they're trying to develop here, instead of whine like it's a finished product. I can see the potential of GS, and the devs aim. I'd at least wait until it's alpha/beta before I start complaining.

While I do agree, I get frustrated on this subject because I HAVE spoken directly to the developers. And while they do seem to be like very nice people who are relatively open minded, I get this underlying notion that they won't ever integrate something like that simply because it doesn't integrate with their vision. Let's put the BS aside and be realistic... they're designing a user interface for people to use that will in time replace Gnome 2.X. There is no "let's try something completely new" option here. If you keep 2.X and want to throw out a spinner option, that's great. But when you're redesigning a new-age user interface, you need to integrate options for the users to utilize it at its maximum. Otherwise, people simply won't use it, which is unfortunately a large part of the current consensus SIMPLY based on the lack of a window/app switcher.

However, you make a valid point. It's not even alpha. And that's very true. Once beta hits, the exposure GS will get will be exponentially higher than what it is now - only then will it be even more clearer to the Gnome devs if they should put their one-laned vision aside and integrate something that the masses want.

But the bottom line is, GS is absolutely fantastic and very nice to use. It still has a ways to go, but considering it's not even in Alpha, it's pretty damn commendable to the devs to see what they have so far.

#922

Roasted said: While I do agree, I get frustrated on this subject because I HAVE spoken directly to the developers. And while they do seem to be like very nice people who are relatively open minded, I get this underlying notion that they won't ever integrate something like that simply because it doesn't integrate with their vision.

I'm glad you do talk to them. I, for one, have found them to be rude which is off-putting. I have also read reports of users asking the devs to implement/change a feature only to be refused, yet later on, they have done what was asked albeit seemingly 'off their own back'. Make of that what you will, but they do appear visionary, inventive, almost ingenious, and too many put them down for being simplistic and/or arrogant.

I apologise now if I appear argumentative, but I like to see users making full use of their machines and their software, and I dislike it when users seem too fixed in their ways. But I guess taste cannot always be accounted for.

#923

It's better than I thought so I look forward to the finished product. Lots of hate for it made me weary of really giving it a fair try but after installing the latest version I'm pretty impressed. Some improvements like notifications are small, but definitely an improvement.

#924

Perhaps features that they are loth to include by default can be added in an efficient extension. There are already some interesting extensions mentioned on the mailing list.

#925

NightwishFan said: Perhaps features that they are loth to include by default can be added in an efficient extension. There are already some interesting extensions mentioned on the mailing list.

Yeah I just saw the extensions list in the looking glass. Are there any extensions available already?

#926

I only know of one..

Window Attention Extension: http://cloud.github.com/downloads/linux4kix/gnome-shell-extensions/window_attention_extension.tar.gz

Extract it into ~/.config/gnome-shell/extensions, and restart the shell. They say you need a newer shell, not sure what that qualifies as. You can restart a running shell by typing ALT+f2 and typing "r".

NOTE: I did not test this personally.

#927

NightwishFan said: I only know of one..

Window Attention Extension: http://cloud.github.com/downloads/linux4kix/gnome-shell-extensions/window_attention_extension.tar.gz

Extract it into ~/.config/gnome-shell/extensions, and restart the shell. They say you need a newer shell, not sure what that qualifies as. You can restart a running shell by typing ALT+f2 and typing "r".

NOTE: I did not test this personally.

I did. Something is not working with that. But this extension notifys if some window needs attention. This notify is nice with preview (thumbnail) of window and when I click on it - extension opens that window. But something is wrong ... it appears and disappears depends on moving of mouse - and looks like this.

#928

phenest said: The only point I will make is that GS is 7/8 months away from release and it's not even alpha. If you feel it needs more options/features then tell the Gnome devs rather than hope they'll put it in. Try and see what it is they're trying to develop here, instead of whine like it's a finished product. I can see the potential of GS, and the devs aim. I'd at least wait until it's alpha/beta before I start complaining.Wow, your arrogance is amazing ;)

Regardless of what your opinion of my statements is I didn't whine or complain. The only one I noticed complaining was you when you wrongly rebutted my post. I pointed out something I though was glaringly obvious and you didn't even get what I said. I think it is something important so I thought I would mention it, not expecting to get the 3rd degree from someone who himself thinks the devs are rude.

Note I said initially that I didn't know if it had been covered already. I don't know about you but I am trying to offer some constructive help to the devs. Sometimes I mention a few things I think about here before I attempt to ask them anything because often others have already made the same point.

Anyway, enough of that.

I had a play with Cairo dock the other day, I don't like it but I will admit it has some good features. I like the feature where you can get a full list of Applications etc by hovering on the Ubuntu icon. This is something I think, I realise others wont agree, may be a nice touch in G-S and it could help new users find applications easier than thinking of names that they have never known anyway. Just an idea.

#929

phenest said: I'm glad you do talk to them. I, for one, have found them to be rude which is off-putting. I have also read reports of users asking the devs to implement/change a feature only to be refused, yet later on, they have done what was asked albeit seemingly 'off their own back'. Make of that what you will, but they do appear visionary, inventive, almost ingenious, and too many put them down for being simplistic and/or arrogant.

I apologise now if I appear argumentative, but I like to see users making full use of their machines and their software, and I dislike it when users seem too fixed in their ways. But I guess taste cannot always be accounted for.

And that is completely understandable. But I see no harm in adding -options- for users to make their desktop as efficient as possible for them.

It all falls back to the basic principle of customizing your computer. I run the Moomex theme. Do you run the Moomex theme? If not, why not? I run it. Why don't you? It's all a matter of preference, and how users utilize their desktop is yet another chapter in this ongoing story with customizing.

Take Windows XP for example. It has a quick launch. I love it. But it's not enabled by default. No big deal, I can enable it. A simple checkbox allows me as a user to enjoy my computing experience that much more. Using that example against GS begs the obvious question - why is such a small feature that some users absolutely would love such a bad thing to integrate as an option they may enable?

Falling back to a similar swing on the topic, if they don't integrate some sort of window/app switcher, I would like the option to turn OFF the notification system in the bottom of the screen. Why? Because if GS won't integrate an option to handle that task, I'll be using Docky to fill in the gap. Problem is, I don't want the auto hide notification system to be in the way, which is why I'd want an option to turn it off.

And of course, if neither of those things happen, there's only one thing I can say: 2.X for life!

#930

Roasted said:

Falling back to a similar swing on the topic, [color="Red"]if they don't integrate some sort of window/app switcher[/color], I would like the option to turn OFF the notification system in the bottom of the screen. Why? Because if GS won't integrate an option to handle that task, I'll be using Docky to fill in the gap. Problem is, I don't want the auto hide notification system to be in the way, which is why I'd want an option to turn it off.

And of course, if neither of those things happen, there's only one thing I can say: 2.X for life!

Actually, there are two ways of going about this: the Overview, or Alt+Tab. Personally, if you don't like Alt+Tab, just move your mouse into the upper left-hand corner of the screen. This activate the Hot Corner, which activates the Overview. You can then see all your windows laid out in an OS X Expose-like tiled window layout.

#931

Kenny_Strawn said: Actually, there are two ways of going about this: the Overview, or Alt+Tab. Personally, if you don't like Alt+Tab, just move your mouse into the upper left-hand corner of the screen. This activate the Hot Corner, which activates the Overview. You can then see all your windows laid out in an OS X Expose-like tiled window layout.

I know. The Alt+Tab thing is not a way a lot of users like to switch applications. I for one LOVE Alt+Tab, but not for managing all of my open applications. If I'm going between two IMs, I love Alt+Tab then because I can real quick snap those keys together and blam, I'm on the other window.

I've tried to use Alt+Tab as my main way of switching through open applications. I'm sorry, it's very convenient, but it is in no way shape or form efficient enough to be the main way I switch through all active applications.

The overview is nice, but again, it comes with limitations. The overview in my mind (strictly my opinion here) should be a way to manage windows in workspaces. When you begin to use the overview for all means of switching through active applications, it can become a little blah.

Firefox. Overview. Thunderbird. Overview. Pidgin. Overview. Audacious. Overview. Firefox again. Overview.

I spent a month trying to force myself to use that on my work laptop, since GS is unusually stable despite its infancy stage. However, I just couldn't get into it. Each time I felt myself firing up Docky and breathing a sigh of relief.

Through talking with other users, through the forums, through showing friends, family members, asking on the Ubuntu and Gnome IRC chat, etc, the common consensus is that people love the overview, alt+tab is always a nice feature to have, but it's still lacking that main on-screen way to switch apps.

There are a few users out there who love the way GS is set up right now. Out of the three to four dozen people I showed GS to, I can count on 1 hand how many agree that the way it is right now, today, is perfect in regard to application management.

But oh well, I've gotten over my stance of being pissy about it. I've voiced my opinion on the matter and think it's best for now to be patient and at least wait until beta before I begin bugging the developers again on this issue. I just simply won't use Gnome Shell if some sort of other way is implemented that makes a little more sense for us users out there who aren't a fan of the other methods in place currently.

#932

Kenny_Strawn said: Actually, there are two ways of going about this: the Overview, or Alt+Tab. Personally, if you don't like Alt+Tab, just move your mouse into the upper left-hand corner of the screen. This activate the Hot Corner, which activates the Overview. You can then see all your windows laid out in an OS X Expose-like tiled window layout.

Roasted, and pretty much everyone else asking for a better app switcher, know this.

That way is very much inferior to the 2.X way: [*]it requires more mouse movement

  • you have to move the mouse first then look (since opening closing applications affects position so there is no muscle memory)
  • it doesn't have an infinite height.
#933

Merk42 said: Roasted, and pretty much everyone else asking for a better app switcher, know this.

That way is very much inferior to the 2.X way:

  • it requires more mouse movement
  • you have to move the mouse first then look (since opening closing applications affects position so there is no muscle memory)
  • it doesn't have an infinite height.

After you move the mouse into the hot corner, it's only one click (on the window that you want).

#934

Kenny_Strawn said: After you move the mouse into the hot corner, it's only one click (on the window that you want).To the window you want, but what if the Application isn't listed in that window and you don't know the name of it so you can't just do a so called "simple" search?

#935

Kenny_Strawn said: After you move the mouse into the hot corner, it's only one click (on the window that you want).

I'm not referring to mouse clicks, I'm referring to mouse movement. move up to the Activities button then back down to the window.

#936

Kenny_Strawn said: After you move the mouse into the hot corner, it's only one click (on the window that you want).

Let's add a curve ball: I run dual monitors. My 2nd monitor is on the left. That means I don't have a "hot corner" since there is no corner. If I move to the activities button, my cursor keeps continuing. I have to make it a point to actually navigate to that button and click.

In short: The overview is awesome. But it is not that efficient for switching windows/apps. Some may think so, but for me and many others, there needs to be something else.

#937

k3lt01 said: To the window you want, but what if the Application isn't listed in that window and you don't know the name of it so you can't just do a so called "simple" search?

Then, there is a menu within the overview called "Applications" where all apps are listed in ABC order.

#938

Kenny_Strawn said: Then, there is a menu within the overview called "Applications" where all apps are listed in ABC order.

I have faith that will be changed to something managable. Alph order is great for up to about 10 or 15 apps. After that it is just silly.

Lets spend a week looking for an app. Easier to launch the bugger in terminal.

That is one thing I am sure is going to be changed. It needs to be in place to make sure it works before improving it and I certainly do not know what may have to be in place to do those improvements.

What I am trying to say is that the gnome boys seem to be a careful bunch. That is why gnome is so solid. To keep it solid you have to build slowly and methodically t owhere you want to go. I think a straight list is just there, in that shape, waiting for the right time to make it better. Let us not get are knickers in too much of a knot just yet.

I, for instance, would really like to be able to try it. Just as it is. Can't do that as there is no way my 2 year old box can run it. I would be happy to learn that they are working on that problem.

If it won't run it is not much good. That, too me, seems like an important thing to get straight now and build from there.

#939

Kenny_Strawn said: Then, there is a menu within the overview called "Applications" where all apps are listed in ABC order.Kenny, your not listening. Not all apps are listed and that is the problem.

ranch hand said: I, for instance, would really like to be able to try it. Just as it is. Can't do that as there is no way my 2 year old box can run it. I would be happy to learn that they are working on that problem.

If it won't run it is not much good. That, too me, seems like an important thing to get straight now and build from there.I know how you feel, up until this last week I haven't been able to get it to run on my laptop but it is running now with the latest from the ppa. Admittedly it is slow but it will run, and its better on Lucid than it is in Karmic. I also have it now on my desktop and it's really good and I am enjoying using it and finding little, insignificant to some people, things that I think could do with tweaking.

#940

Roasted said: Falling back to a similar swing on the topic, if they don't integrate some sort of window/app switcher, I would like the option to turn OFF the notification system in the bottom of the screen. Why? Because if GS won't integrate an option to handle that task, I'll be using Docky to fill in the gap. Problem is, I don't want the auto hide notification system to be in the way, which is why I'd want an option to turn it off.

Problem solved yesterday, they changed the code to prevent the bottom notification area from showing up if there's no current notification unless you move the mouse pointer to the lower right corner! I also use docky because of app switching!

xtoudi said: I did. Something is not working with that. But this extension notifys if some window needs attention. This notify is nice with preview (thumbnail) of window and when I click on it - extension opens that window. But something is wrong ... it appears and disappears depends on moving of mouse - and looks like this.

Can someone tell me how to make the gnome-shell panel transparent like in this screenshot!?

#941

I alt+tab. I had no idea I was a minority.

#942

tito_torrisi said:

Can someone tell me how to make the gnome-shell panel transparent like in this screenshot!?

Page 87 (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1305154&page=87) I put over there a few lines of code which makes this panel like this - transparent/gradient. And also you need git version of GS (need to change ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/data/theme/gnome-shell.css file).

#943

I never did, I like to see what is open in some kind of bar/dock. But I like docky in combination with gnome-shell, there's nothing wrong about that...

#944

xtoudi said: Page 87 (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1305154&page=87)

I put over there a few lines of code which makes this panel like this - transparent/gradient. And also you need git version of GS (need to change ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/data/theme/gnome-shell.css file).

Thank you! I have the ricotz testing ppa version, most recent one from yesterday! I hope that will also work.

#945

tito_torrisi said: Thank you! I have the ricotz testing ppa version, most recent one from yesterday! I hope that will also work.

And if you want exactly top panel like at this screen you need to set:

#panel {
    color: #ffffff;
    font-size: 16px;
    background-gradient-direction: vertical;
    background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0.98);
}
#946

Roasted said: Let's add a curve ball: I run dual monitors. My 2nd monitor is on the left. That means I don't have a "hot corner" since there is no corner. If I move to the activities button, my cursor keeps continuing. I have to make it a point to actually navigate to that button and click.

In short: The overview is awesome. But it is not that efficient for switching windows/apps. Some may think so, but for me and many others, there needs to be something else.

Yes, this is a problem for me as well. I hope they copy OS X's behavior where the mouse stops in the corner when moving the mouse to a corner on a multiple screen setup. That works awesome and I'm sure there's no patent stuff involved with copying that...:popcorn:

#947

xtoudi said: And if you want exactly top panel like at this screen you need to set:

#panel {
    color: #ffffff;
    font-size: 16px;
    background-gradient-direction: vertical;
    background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0.98);
}

I see some light about my hands getting dirty gnome-shell. :-)

#948

frustphil said: I see some light about my hands getting dirty gnome-shell. :-)

it's an idea of GS - to change anything you want :-)

#949

Roasted said: Let's add a curve ball: I run dual monitors. My 2nd monitor is on the left. That means I don't have a "hot corner" since there is no corner. If I move to the activities button, my cursor keeps continuing. I have to make it a point to actually navigate to that button and click.

In short: The overview is awesome. But it is not that efficient for switching windows/apps. Some may think so, but for me and many others, there needs to be something else.

You should always run into the habit of putting your desktop on the monitor on the left, especially with GS.

#950

Kenny_Strawn said: You should always run into the habit of putting your desktop on the monitor on the left, especially with GS.

I don't mean to sound like an ***, I truly don't, but I have a blunt answer.

Absolutely not.

My desk layout doesn't allow for me to put my monitor on the right, due to the unique L-shaped layout it is made out of. I don't see at all how it's a valid argument to say "Oh yeah, GS... you running dual monitors? Ahh, man.. gotta have the secondary on your right. Sorry bro."

And to even further add, I run decently large monitors. For me to have to cross both monitors and hot corner, that's not as user friendly as hitting the bottom of my main screen for a dock or a panel. Point being, even if I had all of the desk space in the world and could put my second monitor up down left right upside down or any which direction to accommodate to Gnome Shell's preferences, I STILL would find that claim to be poor.

#951

Finally we can drag an app (search results) and drop to specific workspace ... it's going quite nice ...

#952

You can always slap the Super key to bring up the overlay. Thats what I use to launch.

#953

ElSlunko said: You can always slap the Super key to bring up the overlay. Thats what I use to launch.

Very true, but it still brings back the argument is equally implementing mouse vs keyboard usage. I feel like the keyboard department is taken care of, but I'm not really convinced it is in the mouse department yet.

#954

k3lt01 said: Wow, your arrogance is amazing ;)

Regardless of what your opinion of my statements is I didn't whine or complain. The only one I noticed complaining was you when you wrongly rebutted my post.

Calm down, calm down. Don't take it so personally. My comment was a generalization. We all have some thing to say about GS, some like it as is, some don't. And I do remember apologising.

I really don't see the devs continuing Gnome 2 when GS is released. But that doesn't stop anyone from forking it. But what about XFCE? Maybe they'll use it.

#955

Lubuntu should be out with 10.04, hopefully, as a member of the Ubuntu family.

I like Lxde better than Xfce. Mainly because I prefer pcmanfm to thunar, but also because the y seem to be more serious about leaving it light weight than the Xubuntu devs. There are still some bugs with lxdm so you really need to use gdm, also currently included, to get it to work.

Just mentioned it as folks seem to think an alternative to gnome is important and everyone forgets Lxde and the Lubuntu project.

That is where I will be going if GS continues to be unusable on my hardware. I have faith that it will work though.

#956

Roasted said: I don't mean to sound like an ***, I truly don't, but I have a blunt answer.

Absolutely not.

My desk layout doesn't allow for me to put my monitor on the right, due to the unique L-shaped layout it is made out of. I don't see at all how it's a valid argument to say "Oh yeah, GS... you running dual monitors? Ahh, man.. gotta have the secondary on your right. Sorry bro."

And to even further add, I run decently large monitors. For me to have to cross both monitors and hot corner, that's not as user friendly as hitting the bottom of my main screen for a dock or a panel. Point being, even if I had all of the desk space in the world and could put my second monitor up down left right upside down or any which direction to accommodate to Gnome Shell's preferences, I STILL would find that claim to be poor.

So true! At my house (we live with 6 students together) we have a pc in the kitchen that is connected to the TV. It is a small kitchen so we can only have the pc at a certain spot and that spot happens to be on the right side of the TV (and the pc is not even close to the TV). So we could change the setup around to get better handling of the DE, but that would be so strange to drag windows from the main monitor to the right to see it appear on the left :S

So I would really like it to have them implement it in a flexible way so that it will always just works, no matter what configuration/placement of the screens.

#957

ranch hand said: Lubuntu should be out with 10.04, hopefully, as a member of the Ubuntu family.

I like Lxde better than Xfce. Mainly because I prefer pcmanfm to thunar, but also because the y seem to be more serious about leaving it light weight than the Xubuntu devs. There are still some bugs with lxdm so you really need to use gdm, also currently included, to get it to work.

Lxdm works fine for me with lxde/Lubuntu. It seems when you use it the environment variables in /etc/environment don't get picked up or path variable gets over-ridden, not sure exactly, that may be an issue for some people. I did have to purge and re-install it on one system (of 2) where I am using it to get the theme working, otherwise I would end up with a back screen with a username prompt and no option to select a desktop environment or language.

On the system where I am using lxdm but don't have the lxde/Lubuntu stuff installed I still need to purge and re-install to see if lxdm continues to look for lxsession every time I log in.

Later, Seeker

#958

phenest said: Calm down, calm down. Don't take it so personally. My comment was a generalization. We all have some thing to say about GS, some like it as is, some don't. And I do remember apologising.

I really don't see the devs continuing Gnome 2 when GS is released. But that doesn't stop anyone from forking it. But what about XFCE? Maybe they'll use it.

From what I understand, 3.0 does not = gnome shell. Gnome 3.0 will come out with panels and shell from what I read, with shell more than likely being default.

I don't see the harm in continuing panels. In fact, if anything I find it stupid to nuke them any less than 1 year from shell's release. There are people out there who use Ubuntu desktop edition as a server, and virtualize it... GS needing the little bit of 3d effects may be enough to make Gnome an unworthy option to virtualize.

If they do nuke them, I can smell a very largely supported fork coming along. I think it'd be a pretty catastrophic hit to Gnome's reputation to just do away with panels all together...

#959

I really wish they did not decide to go compositing only. I still will use it though, and if they maintain the panels, then excellent.

Also, I found this page which (I think) documents minor changes in the gnome shell. Sorry if this was already mentioned. http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/log/

#960

phenest said: Calm down, calm down. Don't take it so personally. My comment was a generalization. We all have some thing to say about GS, some like it as is, some don't. And I do remember apologising.So you didn't see the WINK then huh? I was playing with you so settle yourself before you tell others to settle.

Regarding the apology, it looked like your other comment, i.e. a generalisation :p

phenest said: I really don't see the devs continuing Gnome 2 when GS is released. But that doesn't stop anyone from forking it. But what about XFCE? Maybe they'll use it.I was reading the Gnome site yesterday and it had about continuing 2.x past 2.30 (3.0) but it is obvious no one has update that part because 3.0 will be 2.32 not 2.30.

Roasted said: From what I understand, 3.0 does not = gnome shell. Gnome 3.0 will come out with panels and shell from what I read, with shell more than likely being default.I took it that 2.32 = G-S. It was supposed to be 2.30 originally but they moved it back another 6 months. Thats just what I have gathered through reading gnome.org.

Roasted said: I don't see the harm in continuing panels. In fact, if anything I find it stupid to nuke them any less than 1 year from shell's release.Why can't they give the panel (or whatever it is called in G-S) at the top of G-S 2.x panel functionality? If it was an option it would solve alot of angst among users.

Roasted said: If they do nuke them, I can smell a very largely supported fork coming along. I think it'd be a pretty catastrophic hit to Gnome's reputation to just do away with panels all together...I must google for Gnome forks. I hadn't even thought of that idea until I read it here.

#961
#962

Gnome-Shell + Gnome-Activity-Journal + BackInTime = Heaven [I] (i think some day BackInTime will be nullified by BTRFS)[/I]

#963

@Merk42 Thank you for the link.

#964

Merk42 said: [SIZE="4"]GNOME Shell Usability Test Plan[/SIZE]

Now I understand their reasoning. I am loving GS :)

#965

Does anyone know if the shadow behind windows can be increased? I find that the shadows of the old metacity (composited) help me with distinguishing different windows, especially by making the shadow of the current window bigger than unfocused windows.

#966

Reading the Usability Testing page, it looks like reducing distractions is a high priority.

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/UsabilityTesting/PhaseI

I counted 5 assumptions from their list that are based on the notion that reducing distractions increases usability. I gather that this is a high priority for the GS team, and I wonder if they really feel that this notion is even worth testing. I just mention this because I looked over the proposed testing methodology, and it seemed to me like they were confusing task performance with usability.

#967

GNOME Shell is IMO colossal failure. They are trying to be so desperately different and result is horrible. Why they not listen to their users? Do they even care? GNOME user WANT Mac like interface. GNOME2 Global menu feature should have been implemented long time ago across entire GNOME desktop, but noo&#8230; We know better what you want, you want this hybrid, unusable something.

But who cares, by the time GNOME 3 will be released will anyway majority of linux users switch to KDE 4.5.x or Windows 7

#968

6205 said: GNOME Shell is IMO colossal failure. They are trying to be so desperately different and result is horrible. Why they not listen to their users? Do they even care? GNOME user WANT Mac like interface. GNOME2 Global menu feature should have been implemented long time ago across entire GNOME desktop, but noo… We know better what you want, you want this hybrid, unusable something.

But who cares, by the time GNOME 3 will be released will anyway majority of linux users switch to KDE 4.5.x or Windows 7

We love you too!! :)

#969

6205 said: But who cares, by the time GNOME 3 will be released will anyway majority of linux users switch to KDE 4.5.x or Windows 7

Or in my case, LXDE or XFCE due to me hating KDE to a degree.

#970

6205 said: GNOME Shell is IMO colossal failure. They are trying to be so desperately different and result is horrible. Why they not listen to their users? Do they even care? GNOME user WANT Mac like interface. GNOME2 Global menu feature should have been implemented long time ago across entire GNOME desktop, but noo… We know better what you want, you want this hybrid, unusable something.

But who cares, by the time GNOME 3 will be released will anyway majority of linux users switch to KDE 4.5.x or Windows 7

Or, you can... I don't know... maybe not use Gnome Shell and continue using the panel version of Gnome and live happily ever after?

Nobody is forcing you to use it. If you don't like it, there are other options out there - even still offered by Gnome.

#971

6205 said: GNOME user WANT Mac like interface.

Do I? Yeah ...oh wait!

I like GS. This might not turn out as every one expected, but I think this is a big step forward for gnome.

#972

I feel bad about Gnome-shell, don't really like it. But changes are needed, we will not like it at the beginning, but time will answer if the changes is worth or not

#973

Psumi said: Or in my case, LXDE or XFCE due to me hating KDE to a degree.

Boy, am I glad to hear that. I thought I was the only one.

I think Lubuntu is going to be a good one too. Have a couple installs of 10.04 (A1 and A2). The alphas are not just upgrades from the last one, they are still poking the thing with a stick to see what apps people want as default (browser, email, etc). It is coming together. I hope it is approved by Ubuntu to be an official member of the family with the release of 10.04. I am sure it will be by 10.10.

#974

Funnnny said: I feel bad about Gnome-shell, don't really like it.

But changes are needed, we will not like it at the beginning, but time will answer if the changes is worth or not

You're absolutely right about the unfamiliarity. If anything anywhere is positioned a little different than before or more than little, it seems "wrong" at first, but if engineered well, soon it will be discovered that the old way was less usable than the new one.

My point is, that some actual using time need to be given to allow proper feedback.

#975

6205 said: GNOME user WANT Mac like interface.You have got to be kidding me. Somehow methinks this is an assumption based on your own personal preferences. I dislike Macs intensly, I go for the Windows Machines at work (a school) because the Macs are setup for Bling and games not usability and performance. 6205 said: But who cares, by the time GNOME 3 will be released will anyway majority of linux users switch to KDE 4.5.x or Windows 7Nope, wont buy Windows ever again and I don't like KDE as it is, to me, to Mac like. Psumi said: Or in my case, LXDE or XFCE due to me hating KDE to a degree.+1 Tompalaz said: Do I? Yeah ...oh wait!lol ranch hand said: Boy, am I glad to hear that. I thought I was the only one.Nope your not alone, I'll try others out to simply because I dislike KDE so much. I tried Fluxbox again the other day but it lacks so many things and takes alot of setting up. So I'll try one of these two next.

@6205, it seems to me everyone who has replied to your post has pretty much put the kybosh on your assumption. I'm not saying your wrong, well I am, but I am sayng it was a big statement that wasn't very factual.

#976

If someone want to get rid 'RECENT ITEMS' (Overview) need to change dash.js file (if you have git version file should be here: ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/js/ui)

and we need delete this:

        /***** Documents *****/

        this._docsSection = new Section(_("RECENT ITEMS"));

        this._docDisplay = new DocDisplay.DashDocDisplay();
        this._docsSection.content.add(this._docDisplay.actor, { expand: true });

        this._moreDocsPane = null;
        this._docsSection.header.moreLink.connect('activated', Lang.bind(this, function (link) {
            if (this._moreDocsPane == null) {
                this._moreDocsPane = new ResultPane(this);
                this._moreDocsPane.packResults(DOCS);
                this._addPane(this._moreDocsPane);
                link.setPane(this._moreDocsPane);
           }
        }));

        this._docDisplay.connect('changed', Lang.bind(this, function () {
            this._docsSection.header.setMoreLinkVisible(
                this._docDisplay.actor.get_children().length > 0);
        }));
        this._docDisplay.emit('changed');

        this.sectionArea.add(this._docsSection.actor, { expand: true });

After that just Alt+F2 and type 'r' <enter>.

And there is no such ugly thing like 'RECENT ITEMS' in overview :-)

*ugly thing = only my opinion*

EDIT: After that searching, rising ... seems to be faster! At least first run overview.

#977

If at the end Gnome shell does not work out, I will switch to XFCE, which I also really like. I will not go back to KDE. Remember all, it is not due for release until the end of the year. KDE4 was controversial for years before most accepted it.

#978

NightwishFan said: If at the end Gnome shell does not work out, I will switch to XFCE, which I also really like. I will not go back to KDE. Remember all, it is not due for release until the end of the year. KDE4 was controversial for years before most accepted it.

While I do agree, I definitely believe that Gnome Shell will be different. The awful release of KDE 4.0 is still fresh in everybody's minds, and the GS developers especially know this. Nobody wants to duplicate a disaster. As a heavy user of KDE 4.3 now, I do like KDE a lot. But look at Gnome Shell right now. It's pretty damn stable. I don't see a lot of "problems" with GS when it's released like we saw with KDE, however I'm sure a ton of preference-related arguments may come about (why users may not like certain things about it, etc).

Of course, only time will tell. But that's my 2 cents on it.

Also - why plan on switching at all? From what I've read, I haven't seen anything that indicates they will kill off Gnome panels (2.X) at all. I think it'll just turn into an option...

#979

Roasted said:

Also - why plan on switching at all? From what I've read, I haven't seen anything that indicates they will kill off Gnome panels (2.X) at all. I think it'll just turn into an option...

I'd like to emphasize this point: if at present you are a happy user of GNOME 2.x, don't like where GNOME Shell is heading for one reason or another, and have no intention to take an active role in shaping it, no matter how small, you don't have to switch to anything.

GNOME Panel and Metacity, which are being replaced by GNOME Shell, as well as Compiz, which you may prefer, will still be maintained and usable, and you'll be able to continue using them along with the other benefits of GNOME 3 such as a more modern and consolidated platform, GNOME Activity Journal, and all the latest GNOME-related technologies and software.

#980

Thanks for clarifying that 23meg. I suspected they would continue with 2.x but the page at gnome.org that said it hasn't been updated in ages and is now somewhat inaccurate.

#981

but the page at gnome.org that said it hasn't been updated in ages and is now somewhat inaccurate.

Which page?

#982

23meg said: Which page?

http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointZero

#983

The activity journal sounds cool as well. I am organized with my files, but I know several people who are not and would be able to make good use of that.

#984

23meg said: Which page?http://live.gnome.org/ThreePointZero/Plan is but one of the pages referring to Gnome 3, I can't find the other one atm but it was from a link within a page. It referred to Gnome 2.x development being continued on past G3s release.

Kenny_Strawn said: http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointZeroKenny that page doesn't even exist ;)

#985

k3lt01 said: .

Kenny that page doesn't even exist ;) I actually tried that link and something with that title came up.

It sure doesn't look like it has anything on it to do with 2.0.

#986

ranch hand said: I actually tried that link and something with that title came up.

It sure doesn't look like it has anything on it to do with 2.0.Yes something with that title come up just like something with a title can come up on Ubuntu's wiki if you try long enough. However there was only a list of pro-forma options.

#987

k3lt01 said: http://live.gnome.org/ThreePointZero/Plan is but one of the pages referring to Gnome 3, I can't find the other one atm but it was from a link within a page. It referred to Gnome 2.x development being continued on past G3s release.

You're probably thinking of http://live.gnome.org/GNOME3Myths.

#988

23meg said: You're probably thinking of http://live.gnome.org/GNOME3Myths.You're probably wrong ;) , I have never seen that page before.

#989

"If your computer is powerful enough for GNOME 2.x, it will surely be able to run GNOME 3." I got my laptop not only two years ago and it doesnt run gnome shell at all. compiz, with desktop cube and everything, works perfectly fine. do they say that it will work as in later releases of gnome shell?

#990

libihero said: "If your computer is powerful enough for GNOME 2.x, it will surely be able to run GNOME 3."

I got my laptop not only two years ago and it doesnt run gnome shell at all. compiz, with desktop cube and everything, works perfectly fine. do they say that it will work as in later releases of gnome shell? That is what I want to know. Your box must be about the same age as ours (bios installed March 08). Compiz, thank the gods, does not work right.

I have on one 10.04 install, with 2.6.33-999 and xorg.edgers, gotten some function out of compiz and I check it daily with the repo version of gnome-shell.

The only complaint I have about the way GS works is that I really think something more than just the wallpaper is needed on the desktop to be really usable.

On that note I must ask if anyone thinks that the ppa version would run better than the repo version. I do not want to miss checking it out but going to a lot of bother just to freeze the OS solid seems a little silly. If there is some reason to think that the ppa version has a chance, I'll give it a go.

That installation is about 2 weeks from being reinstalled as it is the partitions that I test ISOs on so it is not real important that it works. I just do not want to waste time if there is a100% chance of failure.

#991
#992

libihero said: "If your computer is powerful enough for GNOME 2.x, it will surely be able to run GNOME 3."

I got my laptop not only two years ago and it doesnt run gnome shell at all. compiz, with desktop cube and everything, works perfectly fine. do they say that it will work as in later releases of gnome shell?

ranch hand said: That is what I want to know. Your box must be about the same age as ours (bios installed March 08). Compiz, thank the gods, does not work right.

I have on one 10.04 install, with 2.6.33-999 and xorg.edgers, gotten some function out of compiz and I check it daily with the repo version of gnome-shell.

The only complaint I have about the way GS works is that I really think something more than just the wallpaper is needed on the desktop to be really usable.

On that note I must ask if anyone thinks that the ppa version would run better than the repo version. I do not want to miss checking it out but going to a lot of bother just to freeze the OS solid seems a little silly. If there is some reason to think that the ppa version has a chance, I'll give it a go.

That installation is about 2 weeks from being reinstalled as it is the partitions that I test ISOs on so it is not real important that it works. I just do not want to waste time if there is a100% chance of failure.

Gentlemen, my little Acer is 8 years old and you can see its specs in my signature. I run G-S from the PPA, the repo is to out of date to be able to test it properly. It is only the last few weeks I have been able to get G-S to run effectively but it does actually run albeit slowly. In my opinion it is getting better. Lucid is more suited to G-S than Karmic.

#993

so should i expect the gnome shell finished product to run perfectly then on my laptop? gnome shell does run, but it's very, very slow

#994

libihero said: so should i expect the gnome shell finished product to run perfectly then on my laptop? gnome shell does run, but it's very, very slow I can't say yes or no to that. I don't know what your laptop is or its condition.

#995

plz add mipmap support !!!

#996

k3lt01 said: Gentlemen, my little Acer is 8 years old and you can see its specs in my signature. I run G-S from the PPA, the repo is to out of date to be able to test it properly. It is only the last few weeks I have been able to get G-S to run effectively but it does actually run albeit slowly. In my opinion it is getting better. Lucid is more suited to G-S than Karmic.

I gave it a whack. Definitely does not run on the 2.6.33-999 kernel with xorg.edgers.

It is no worse than the repo version. I can tty to reboot out of it.

Oh well, I would really like to see what it looks like but so far all it looks like is; A>trouble B>error messages on my terminal C>Wallpaper to all edges after dropping the terminal.

The box is not frozen. I can right click and I could change my wallpaper.

It is a bummer but right now the thin isn't real useful to me.

Except for the FUN.

#997

ranch hand said: I gave it a whack. Definitely does not run on the 2.6.33-999 kernel with xorg.edgers.

It is no worse than the repo version. I can tty to reboot out of it.

Oh well, I would really like to see what it looks like but so far all it looks like is; A>trouble B>error messages on my terminal C>Wallpaper to all edges after dropping the terminal.

The box is not frozen. I can right click and I could change my wallpaper.

It is a bummer but right now the thin isn't real useful to me.

Except for the FUN.

I'm sure the ricotz ppa is enough up to date, but would you entertain the idea of building from source?

#998

k3lt01 said: I can't say yes or no to that. I don't know what your laptop is or its condition.

I have a gateway m1625 i got a year and a half ago. it has a dual 2ghz processor with 2 gigs ram. my lspci returns:

00:00.0 Host bridge: ATI Technologies Inc RS690 Host Bridge
00:01.0 PCI bridge: ATI Technologies Inc RS690 PCI to PCI Bridge (Internal gfx)
00:02.0 PCI bridge: ATI Technologies Inc RS690 PCI to PCI Bridge (PCI Express Graphics Port 0)
00:04.0 PCI bridge: ATI Technologies Inc Device 7914
00:05.0 PCI bridge: ATI Technologies Inc RS690 PCI to PCI Bridge (PCI Express Port 1)
00:06.0 PCI bridge: ATI Technologies Inc RS690 PCI to PCI Bridge (PCI Express Port 2)
00:07.0 PCI bridge: ATI Technologies Inc RS690 PCI to PCI Bridge (PCI Express Port 3)
00:12.0 SATA controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB600 Non-Raid-5 SATA
00:13.0 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB600 USB (OHCI0)
00:13.1 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB600 USB (OHCI1)
00:13.2 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB600 USB (OHCI2)
00:13.3 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB600 USB (OHCI3)
00:13.4 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB600 USB (OHCI4)
00:13.5 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB600 USB Controller (EHCI)
00:14.0 SMBus: ATI Technologies Inc SBx00 SMBus Controller (rev 14)
00:14.1 IDE interface: ATI Technologies Inc SB600 IDE
00:14.2 Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA)
00:14.3 ISA bridge: ATI Technologies Inc SB600 PCI to LPC Bridge
00:14.4 PCI bridge: ATI Technologies Inc SBx00 PCI to PCI Bridge
00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configuration
00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map
00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller
00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control
01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RS690M [Radeon X1200 Series]
01:05.2 Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon X1200 Series Audio Controller
07:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8101E/RTL8102E PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller (rev 01)
#999

I would think it should run it, my 7 year old 2ghz Pentium 4 with 1 gb RAM runs it really well.

Merk42 said: I'm sure the ricotz ppa is enough up to date, but would you entertain the idea of building from source?I know your reply was to Ranch Hand but I will say I haven't been able to get it to work from source yet. It just totally kills my machines.

#1000

Merk42 said: I'm sure the ricotz ppa is enough up to date, but would you entertain the idea of building from source?

I might be up to that . There is the fact that I have never done that before.

On the other hand these are testing partitions and destined to be wiped so there is little to loose.

It does not make much sense to do it now because the only install I am willing to totally risk is the ISO install and the testing for A3 is close. This will also give me a clean OS with the correct kernel.

I could, between now and then, maybe get an idea how to do this and do it and see what happens. Then do the xorg.edgers stuff back on and see what happens and if that doesn't work go back to the 2.6.33-999 kernel.

That is what I think I will have t odo anyway to have any hope of a working GS.

Another thing I need to do is check my bios for switches for the video card and see if the intel intigrated controller is even worse than the card I have for this kind of thing.

I am sure it would actually run on my wifes new laptop with an ATI card. It is actually supported.

Wasn't there a post, in this thread, that was kind of a "how to" on building from source?

#1001

ranch hand said: Wasn't there a post, in this thread, that was kind of a "how to" on building from source?Was there? I followed the instructions at gnome.org.

#1002

ranch hand said: Wasn't there a post, in this thread, that was kind of a "how to" on building from source?

The giant, constantly updated, first post of this thread ;)

#1003

Merk42 said: The giant, constantly updated, first post of this thread ;)

Well, that explains why I can't find it. To well hidden. I will study on it and then play with it in a couple weeks with a clean install from the 23rd or if that is bad the 24th.

Then when all sort s of people are downloading the A3 I can avoid all that and destroy a perfectly good, innocent installation. Such cruelty.

I'm a brute.

#1004

ranch hand said: Well, that explains why I can't find it. To well hidden. I will study on it and then play with it in a couple weeks with a clean install from the 23rd or if that is bad the 24th.

Then when all sort s of people are downloading the A3 I can avoid all that and destroy a perfectly good, innocent installation. Such cruelty.

I'm a brute.

you need not fear any loss. if you follow the instructions in the first post, gs will be installed in your home folder. if you don't want it to be there any longer, it seems to me, that you can just delete one folder and gs is no more. after reading the first post, i decided to be so brave and build gs on my production system. i just don't make gs start automatically, so there hasn't been any problem that would have borked the whole system so far, and i can't imagine there be any.

#1005

Appearence of shell changed in the last update. The activities button no longer have a blue color int he overview mode, rather it has a raised look like application indicators.

#1006

It was only matter of time when i stop using GNOME. Now it seems it will be with release of GNOME 3 at the end of the year, when i switch from Ubuntu to Kubuntu or openSUSE with KDE 4.5.x. You can mark me as troll if you wish, but GNOME Shell is horrible concept and imo big failure. But i wish good luck to devs anyway...

#1007

Is it mutter that will replace metacity? If it is, is there a plan/roadmap when this will happen?

Excited what will happen with GS :popcorn:

#1008

6205 said: It was only matter of time when i stop using GNOME. Now it seems it will be with release of GNOME 3 at the end of the year, when i switch from Ubuntu to Kubuntu or openSUSE with KDE 4.5.x. You can mark me as troll if you wish, but GNOME Shell is horrible concept and imo big failure. But i wish good luck to devs anyway...

Yeah.. Well... did you see the concept car for the new Toyota they're putting out in 2016? Man. It's stupid looking. When I go to the car dealership later, I will purposely avoid all Toyota's on the lot because of that ridiculous looking car that's coming out in six years. Gosh.

Bro... seriously... you're judging software that isn't even alpha yet. There are so few people who are actually using it. TONS of people I spoke to, even hardcore Gnome fans, often times don't even know about this yet.

Wait until it's beta when more people get their hands on it and use it. Only then will it begin to mold into an even better project than it already is.

#1009

Tompalaz said: Is it mutter that will replace metacity?

If it is, is there a plan/roadmap when this will happen?

Excited what will happen with GS :popcorn:

No.

Mutter = GTK2 Window Manager (Compositor) Metacity = Decorator

This will be the case with GNOME Shell.

#1010

Lol Roasted, I wouldn't be buying a Toyota atm anyway, they have dicky accelerators and the brakes don't stop you. Oh What A Feeling :popcorn:

In all seriousness though I agree with your sentiments, G-S is still really just a big testing concept albeit a big one.

#1011

Anyone else with this problem (totally up-to-date using radeon driver):

jcoster@jcoster-laptop:~$ gnome-shell --replace
glxinfo: error while loading shared libraries: libGL.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Failed to start shell
/usr/share/themes/exotic/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:89: Murrine configuration option "gradients" is no longer supported and will be ignored.
/usr/share/themes/exotic/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:89: Murrine configuration option "highlight_ratio" will be deprecated in future releases. Please use "highlight_shade" instead.
/usr/share/themes/exotic/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:90: Murrine configuration option "lightborder_ratio" will be deprecated in future releases. Please use "lightborder_shade" instead.
/usr/share/themes/exotic/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:156: Murrine configuration option "highlight_ratio" will be deprecated in future releases. Please use "highlight_shade" instead.
/usr/share/themes/exotic/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:89: Murrine configuration option "gradients" is no longer supported and will be ignored.
/usr/share/themes/exotic/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:89: Murrine configuration option "highlight_ratio" will be deprecated in future releases. Please use "highlight_shade" instead.
/usr/share/themes/exotic/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:90: Murrine configuration option "lightborder_ratio" will be deprecated in future releases. Please use "lightborder_shade" instead.
/usr/share/themes/exotic/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:156: Murrine configuration option "highlight_ratio" will be deprecated in future releases. Please use "highlight_shade" instead.
Window manager warning: Screen 0 on display ":0.0" already has a window manager; try using the --replace option to replace the current window manager.
Cannot register the panel shell: there is already one running.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/bin/gnome-shell", line 367, in <module>
    shell = start_shell()
  File "/usr/bin/gnome-shell", line 136, in start_shell
    (server_glx_extensions, client_glx_extensions, glx_extensions) = _get_glx_extensions()
  File "/usr/bin/gnome-shell", line 73, in _get_glx_extensions
    server_glx_extensions = set(re.split("\s*,\s*", glxinfo_map['server glx extensions'].strip()))
KeyError: 'server glx extensions'
#1012

OK, after todays xorg.edgers update we have improvement. I can print errors to desktop;


ike@iso-desktop:~$ gnome-shell --replace
do_wait: drmWaitVBlank returned -1, IRQs don't seem to be working correctly.
Try adjusting the vblank_mode configuration parameter.
do_wait: drmWaitVBlank returned -1, IRQs don't seem to be working correctly.
Try adjusting the vblank_mode configuration parameter.
      JS LOG: GNOME Shell started at Sat Feb 13 2010 13:09:48 GMT-0700 (MST)
      JS LOG: Failed to acquire org.freedesktop.Notifications; trying again

(mutter:8067): Clutter-WARNING **: The required ID of 1381653 does not refer to an existing actor; this usually implies that the pick() of an actor is not correctly implemented or that there is an error in the glReadPixels() implementation of the GL driver.

(mutter:8067): Clutter-WARNING **: The required ID of 1381653 does not refer to an existing actor; this usually implies that the pick() of an actor is not correctly implemented or that there is an error in the glReadPixels() implementation of the GL driver.

(mutter:8067): Clutter-WARNING **: The required ID of 1381653 does not refer to an existing actor; this usually implies that the pick() of an actor is not correctly implemented or that there is an error in the glReadPixels() implementation of the GL driver.

(mutter:8067): Clutter-WARNING **: The required ID of 1381653 does not refer to an existing actor; this usually implies that the pick() of an actor is not correctly implemented or that there is an error in the glReadPixels() implementation of the GL driver.

(mutter:8067): Clutter-WARNING **: The required ID of 1381653 does not refer to an existing actor; this usually implies that the pick() of an actor is not correctly implemented or that there is an error in the glReadPixels() implementation of the GL driver.

(mutter:8067): Clutter-WARNING **: The required ID of 1381653 does not refer to an existing actor; this usually implies that the pick() of an actor is not correctly implemented or that there is an error in the glReadPixels() implementation of the GL driver.

Does this inspire anyone with some suggestions?

#1013

JCoster said: Anyone else with this problem (totally up-to-date using radeon driver):

The radeon driver from the main repository works fine for me.

This makes it look like something is not right with your mesa/drm stuff.

glxinfo: error while loading shared libraries: libGL.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

Doing``` dpkg -l *drm* *mesa* | grep ii


shows these being installed on my system

ii libdrm-intel1 2.4.17-0ubuntu2 ii libdrm-nouveau1 2.4.17-0ubuntu2 ii libdrm-radeon1 2.4.17-0ubuntu2 ii libdrm2 2.4.17-0ubuntu2 ii libgl1-mesa-dev 7.7-0ubuntu8 ii libgl1-mesa-dri 7.7-0ubuntu8 ii libgl1-mesa-glx 7.7-0ubuntu8 ii libglu1-mesa 7.7-0ubuntu8 ii libglu1-mesa-dev 7.7-0ubuntu8 ii mesa-common-dev 7.7-0ubuntu8 ii mesa-utils 7.7-0ubuntu8 ii xlibmesa-gl-dev 1:7.5+1ubuntu2 ii xserver-xorg-video-radeon 1:6.12.99+git20100126.e5933fd7-0ubuntu1 ii xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd 1.3.0-2


glxinfo should report something similar to

seeker@ubuntu:~$ glxinfo name of display: :0.0 display: :0 screen: 0 direct rendering: Yes server glx vendor string: SGI server glx version string: 1.4


and xdriinfo something like:

seeker@ubuntu:~$ xdriinfo Screen 0: r300


The libgl1-mesa-glx is the one that supplies libGL.so.1 so if all the above packages look like they are in installed on your system you might try reinstalling that one package or possibly all of them just to be sure:

sudo apt-get install --reinstall libgl1-mesa-glx


Later, Seeker
#1014

seeker5528 said: The libgl1-mesa-glx is the one that supplies libGL.so.1 so if all the above packages look like they are in installed on your system you might try reinstalling that one package or possibly all of them just to be sure:

sudo apt-get install --reinstall libgl1-mesa-glx

Awesome, cheers! That solved it for me.

Thanks a lot JC

#1015

Has anyone been able/figured-out how to change the clock formatting?

#1016

Does anybody have any instances where the notification system sticks? There are times it comes up and just stays up. Just curious if anybody else ran into this.

#1017

moore.bryan said: Has anyone been able/figured-out how to change the clock formatting?

Edit /usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/panel.js See lines 557 to 564

     let isTime24h = displayDate.toLocaleFormat("x%p") == "x";
    if  (isTime24h) {
      /* Translators: This is the time format used in  24-hour mode. */
       this._clock.set_text(displayDate.toLocaleFormat(_("%a %R")));
    }  else {
      /* Translators: This is a time format used for AM/PM. */
       this._clock.set_text(displayDate.toLocaleFormat(_("%a %l:%M %p")));
     }

This is where clock formatting is set.

#1018

Hi Ranch Hand, I've been getting these Clutter - reference to no actor warnings on one of my machines for some time (forever when it comes to gnomeshell). The result is that I cannot gain focus on a window in gnome shell. Luckily CNTRL-C will abort gnome-shell as it is running in a terminal.

I have raised it as a query a couple of times but no one else seems to be having the problem. The machine I have this problem on has Intel Graphics and will run Compiz OK.

#1019

Ah, nice to have unique problems. Enough to get you puffed up.

I run an poorly supported ATI card (see sig) that will not run compiz. The 2.6.33-999 kernel is a big improvement with the xorg.edgers stuff on with it.

You may want to get "edgers" for your intel video. I get updates for it.

I have an integrated intel video controller and am tempted to see what it does with this stuff. I may one of these days.

Thanks for the info.

#1020

Peter09 said: Hi Ranch Hand,

I've been getting these Clutter - reference to no actor warnings on one of my machines for some time (forever when it comes to gnomeshell). The result is that I cannot gain focus on a window in gnome shell. Luckily CNTRL-C will abort gnome-shell as it is running in a terminal.

I have raised it as a query a couple of times but no one else seems to be having the problem. The machine I have this problem on has Intel Graphics and will run Compiz OK.

I have the same problem, but most of the time mouse click still works, I just have to click a couple of times till it "gets it". Also, try moving your mouse a little between each click. I don't know what's to blame for this behaviour. I'm also running gnome-shell on Intel graphics.

#1021

The following packages have unmet dependencies:

gnome-shell: Depends: libgjs0 but it is not going to be installed

I made a mistake today and did a partial update... (I removed gnome-shell) Now I have a dependency problem which prevents me from reinstalling gnome-shell...

Anyone else? may this be fixed or should I do something myself?

#1022

Has anyone looked at the newest updates? I haven't gotten the updates through the PPA yet but they look good, including:

  • Switch to the corresponding app when the notification icon is clicked
  • [CSS] Update overview style to match latest mockup
  • [Overview] Make background color stylable
  • Make workspace indicators drop targets

Some pretty good changes I imagine. Mostly the notification one and making the overview stylable.

#1023

Redid the pictures in the first post. Had to remove one since I was over the limit when adding the two for the notifications.

#1024

G-S has developed a problem on my desktop. The mouse arrow disappears if I go to anything on the panel at the top. I can get the activity corner to work but if I activate it the mouse arrow disappears entirely. Has anyone else had this?

#1025

k3lt01 said: G-S has developed a problem on my desktop. The mouse arrow disappears if I go to anything on the panel at the top. I can get the activity corner to work but if I activate it the mouse arrow disappears entirely. Has anyone else had this?

Yeah I just restarted GS and it worked alright.

#1026

Tonights update removed GS gjs libgjs and libgjs0. I have no idea why. I will reinstall tomorrow, or at least attempt to.

Just thought it may give someone a chuckle.

#1027

ranch hand said: Tonights update removed GS gjs libgjs and libgjs0. I have no idea why. I will reinstall tomorrow, or at least attempt to.

Just thought it may give someone a chuckle.

See my post, you can't install it by now!

#1028

What to do ? Wait or update ? The upgrades are up to 147 now and still wants to take out GS. I've upgraded one of two on my other PC to see what would happen and so far, Nada ! Guess I'll just keep one GS for memories !

#1029

cecilpierce said: What to do ?

Wait or update ? The upgrades are up to 147 now and still wants to take out GS. I've upgraded one of two on my other PC to see what would happen and so far, Nada ! Guess I'll just keep one GS for memories !

The ricotz testing ppa updated the necessary packages and now it's working again. Should be no problem to install/update!

#1030

shafin said: Edit /usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/panel.js

See lines 557 to 564

     let isTime24h = displayDate.toLocaleFormat("x%p") == "x";
    if  (isTime24h) {
      /* Translators: This is the time format used in  24-hour mode. */
       this._clock.set_text(displayDate.toLocaleFormat(_("%a %R")));
    }  else {
      /* Translators: This is a time format used for AM/PM. */
       this._clock.set_text(displayDate.toLocaleFormat(_("%a %l:%M %p")));
     }

This is where clock formatting is set. I've done this before, but it didn't change. Now, it would seem my GnomeShell is borked because it won't start and complains:


 Window manager warning: Log level 16: Could not load library [/home/bryan/gnome-shell/install/lib/mutter/plugins/libgnome-shell.so (libmozjs.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)]
Window manager warning: Log level 8: failed to load plugins

Nevermind about the error; somehow, xulrunner was uninstalled. I reinstalled and everything's fine except for the time/date... still not right, even though I have the following in panel.js:


	/* If there is no am or pm, time format is 24h */
	let isTime24h = displayDate.toLocaleFormat("x%p") == "x";
	if (isTime24h) {
	  /* Translators: This is the time format used in 24-hour mode. */
	  this._clock.set_text(displayDate.toLocaleFormat(_("%a %R")));
	} else {
	  /* Translators: This is a time format used for AM/PM. */
	  this._clock.set_text(displayDate.toLocaleFormat(_("%A, %d %B %Y | %l:%M %p")));
	}
        Mainloop.timeout_add(msecRemaining, Lang.bind(this, this._updateClock));
        return false;
    },

EDIT: I solved this by just installing from the PPA repo rather than building myself through git and making the changes above.

I have to say, I like GnomeShell so much better than I thought I would...

#1031

tito_torrisi said: The ricotz testing ppa updated the necessary packages and now it's working again. Should be no problem to install/update!

Thanks, that's a relief. What does this mean ?

JS LOG: GNOME Shell started at Tue Feb 16 2010 09:56:49 GMT-0500 (EST) JS LOG: Failed to acquire org.freedesktop.Notifications; trying again ** Message: Error: Resource not found.

#1032

Hey all,

I'm trying gnome shell out in Karmic with the ricotz repository and really liking it, but I'm really wanting to try out livecrumbs. You guys know of any way to do this short of removing it and compiling from source?

#1033

keth said: Hey all,

I'm trying gnome shell out in Karmic with the ricotz repository and really liking it, but I'm really wanting to try out livecrumbs. You guys know of any way to do this short of removing it and compiling from source?

How to compile? First post in this thread...

#1034

I probably wasn't clear. I was wondering if you could still try livecrumbs if you are using the ricotz repository. I'm trying to avoid compiling if possible.

#1035

keth said: I probably wasn't clear. I was wondering if you could still try livecrumbs if you are using the ricotz repository. I'm trying to avoid compiling if possible.

Yes you can..the version from ppa and livecrumbs version will coexist. You can run one or another.

#1036

Thank you much for the response. Excited to try it out.

#1037

Well, I'm trying to get livecrumbs working, but I'm running into the following:

checking for NBTK... configure: error: Package requirements (clutter-1.0 gtk+-2.0 libccss-1 >= 0.3.1 clutter-imcontext-0.1) were not met:

No package 'libccss-1' found No package 'clutter-imcontext-0.1' found

Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you installed software in a non-standard prefix.

Alternatively, you may set the environment variables NBTK_CFLAGS and NBTK_LIBS to avoid the need to call pkg-config. See the pkg-config man page for more details.

I'm not sure where to get these dependencies taken care of. Any help would be very much appreciated.

#1038

Whenever there are considerable updates, I give Shell an hour or two to test.

Yet despite all of the recent improvements, is it wrong me for me to still be wholly pissed at the Shell workflow?

#1039

Starks said: Whenever there are considerable updates, I give Shell an hour or two to test.

Yet despite all of the recent improvements, is it wrong me for me to still be wholly pissed at the Shell workflow? Yes, you are bad and should be ashamed of your self.

Come on, this is something totally different and new. Some folks are going to like it and some aren't.

I can't say as it will not run on my box. I do not like that at all.

I am a little leary of the whole thing but can't say until I try it.

If you do not like it, that is not your fault or anyone elses either. You just do not like it.

The devs are (hopefully) big boys and girls and will get over it.

#1040

The newest GS update broke my GS and now it can't run, this happen for anyone else? Not sure what's up with it...

#1041

OlyPerson said: The newest GS update broke my GS and now it can't run, this happen for anyone else? Not sure what's up with it...

Yes. Ricotz PPA or GIT - the same problem.


    JS ERROR: !!!   Exception was: Error: Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded
    JS ERROR: !!!     lineNumber = '0'
    JS ERROR: !!!     fileName = 'gjs_throw'
    JS ERROR: !!!     stack = 'Error("Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded")@:0
("Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded")@gjs_throw:0
@/home/tomek/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/js/ui/main.js:11
'
    JS ERROR: !!!     message = 'Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded'
    JS ERROR: !!!   Exception was: Error: Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded
    JS ERROR: !!!     lineNumber = '0'
    JS ERROR: !!!     fileName = 'gjs_throw'
    JS ERROR: !!!     stack = 'Error("Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded")@:0
("Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded")@gjs_throw:0
@/home/tomek/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/js/ui/main.js:11
Error("Chained exception")@:0
("Chained exception")@gjs_throw:0
@<main>:1
'
    JS ERROR: !!!     message = 'Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded'
Ostrze&#380;enie mened&#380;era okien: Log level 32: Execution of main.js threw exception: Error: Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded
#1042

Well I'm glad it's not me, hope it's fixed by the morning when I get up. God forbid I use gnome-panels now [-(

#1043

OlyPerson said: Well I'm glad it's not me, hope it's fixed by the morning when I get up. God forbid I use gnome-panels now [-(

Here's already morning and problem still exists :-)

#1044

xtoudi said: Here's already morning and problem still exists :-)

I don't believe in time zones. It's still nighttime.

#1045

the problem still exists, from what i can gather there is an issue building the latest version of gnome shell, the build on launchpad keeps failing.

i uninstalled gs and then installed the previous version (after i disabled the ppa from my sources lists) i shall wait until the build goes through before trying to update it again.

#1046
#1047

just updated from the testing ppa on launchpad, installs and runs okay, still have to edit the panel.js file to get 24 hour clock format though, i really should post that as a suggested feature.

cheers

#1048

The newest version (from builds) wants meta gir-2.28 still & it's getting 2.29---so it fails......I'm waiting also.

#1049

would that be the version of gs from here ? ``` https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/testing


if so it built on mine with no errors and runs well.
#1050

No--I build from source using the GS homepage info.....

#1051

autocrosser said: No--I build from source using the GS homepage info.....

I had a problem building from source using ``` jhbuild build

jhbuild build -f -a -c
#1052

Alright the problem's fixed with the newest update this morning.

#1053

How do i change a icon in gnome-shell and docky? I use geany but the icon is truly awfull, i'd like to change it.

I've edit /usr/share/menu/geany replaced a icon in /usr/share/pixmaps etc...

#1054

you can right click on the top right corner (where you user name is if your using gnome shell) from there click system preferences and look for "Main Menu", then look for the application you want to edit (eg - internet >> firefox) and then select it and on the right you should see some options, look for the one that says "Properties"

you should then see an icon on the left of the window, click it, you can select an image from there, or if you want to select another image click browse and go to the location of the image you want, then click open. you should then be able to select the icon you want.

to get the icon to show up in gnome shell press "alt and f2" and type "restart" it should work, ive just changed the icon for firefox this way.

editing things like this is a small issue in gnome shell, for example to change the colour of the panel and the overview require editing a css file, which for those that know css isnt too much trouble, but for less experienced users the ability to change themes,colours etc easily will be a feature that (in my opinion) will be needed.

i have been looking at the various files that control the colours of the panel etc, i have also been looking at editing the various svg files that are used for the various indicators (for example the ripple effect that shows in the top left when you move the mouse to that corner)

i have wondered whether theme packs could be built with the various files needed to change the colours etc, and also containing the various svg icons that are used in different colours and such like, of course they might need an easier way to install them, although moving the folder that contains the theme to the right place isnt too hard.

#1055

Thank you, that actually worked! I tried using 'edit menu' using gnome-panels, didn't work though, but this is the same thing, but still not, right? :P

#1056

from what i know gnome shell is a new window manager, like metacity compiz etc, only it doesnt use compositing (so you dont need compiz running to get it to work, in fact running gnome shell kills compiz)

to be honest i dont know that much about it, but from what ive seen (im using it as well) it is a good idea (in my opinion) some people have said its a bad idea, but i dont think it is.

you should probably have a look here - http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell

as for the menu thing, im not sure how it works, but i assume that when gnome shell is running when editing menus the way i posted, i assume gnome shell interfaces with alacarte (which is the gnome menu editor - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alacarte)

you can also run alacarte in a terminal and it will also bring up the menu editor, i had a small issue with alacarte when i first installed karmic, it would only let me edit menus if i was root (eg - sudo alacarte in a terminal) but thats fixed now.

#1057

techno-mole said: from what i know gnome shell is a new window manager, like metacity compiz etc, only it doesnt use compositing (so you dont need compiz running to get it to work, in fact running gnome shell kills compiz)

GS does use compositing which is the main complaint against it.

#1058

I'm getting a bunch of screen flickers sometimes when I activate the overlay or click on the calendar. It doesn't effect the usability, however it is pretty annoying. I am using the latest version from the rictoz ppa. Is anyone else experiencing similar things?

#1059

my bad.

funny that people would be against it, most seem to run compiz, so not sure why gs would be a problem.

although it may cause problems for older/less powerful systems, maybe it should be disabled in new releases ? so that users can choose, it might require some kind of documentation or something so that people are aware of it, what it is and how to turn it on (should they wish too ?)

#1060

techno-mole said: my bad.

funny that people would be against it, most seem to run compiz, so not sure why gs would be a problem.

although it may cause problems for older/less powerful systems, maybe it should be disabled in new releases ? so that users can choose, it might require some kind of documentation or something so that people are aware of it, what it is and how to turn it on (should they wish too ?) Because unlike compiz, the compositing is required. Yes there are some people with hardware that currently makes GNOME Shell impossible to run.

HalfEmptyHero said: I'm getting a bunch of screen flickers sometimes when I activate the overlay or click on the calendar. It doesn't effect the usability, however it is pretty annoying. I am using the latest version from the rictoz ppa. Is anyone else experiencing similar things?

I'm getting it too and I build from source.

#1061

techno-mole said: my bad.

funny that people would be against it, most seem to run compiz, so not sure why gs would be a problem.

although it may cause problems for older/less powerful systems, maybe it should be disabled in new releases ? so that users can choose, it might require some kind of documentation or something so that people are aware of it, what it is and how to turn it on (should they wish too ?) I have a fairly new box (see sig) that will not run compiz. This is fine with me as I can't stand it anyway, just silly crap.

I am a little upset that it will not run GS either. I may not like it. I may love it. I do not have the chance to see because it will not run.

I do have a 10.04 install that was running the 2.6.33-999 kernel (dropped it) and is still running with the xorg.edgers stuff. Compiz will work to some extent on it but GS is still a no go.

Maybe compositing is needed for a desktop. I seriously doubt it unless you want silly eye candy with no purpose but to entertain.

It could be that they have developed a great thing in GS. I would say that there are a lot of boxes out there that will not run it and that is just not right.

#1062

curious that your system wont run compiz, it seems powerful enough to run it, i dont know anything about ati graphics cards, but it sounds like it would be fine, again curious.

my system specs are -

athalon x2 6000+ dual core running at 3.1ghz (stock speed, not over clocked) 4gb ddr2 ram (@800mhz, again not over clocked) nvidia 9500gt pci express (512mb ddr3 ram) 2 sata hard drives, 1 x 500gb for ubuntu and 1 x 250gb for xp (i dual boot) and i have a cmedia sound card, it does the job.

i have run compiz on much less, one of the systems in the house uses a single core athalon 2.1ghz cpu, 2gb of ram and an old nvidia fx5200 agp card, that runs compiz pretty well.

although this higlights the problem of uses a window manager etc by default, not all systems will run it well, some not at all, which is why there should be an option for using it or not.

for example when i first install karmic effects are of (until i install the restricted drivers)

so what if that by default all effects are off, so basic gnome panels etc, this way most systems should run ubuntu/gnome (unless i missed something ?)

then under the effects tab (under appearances) there could be a few options, 1 - no effects, basic panels etc

2 - gnome shell, when selected the system could then install anything needed, or enable whats needed to run gs etc etc and finally

3 - run compiz, perhaps this should then have a low,medium and high options for the extent of the effects (basic effects or full whistles and bells etc)

each respective option would need some descriptions, maybe mention that each option will require better hardware, and such like.

i like gnome shell, but i dont think that it should be enabled by default, the same goes for compiz etc, it may well send people away, look at vista, wasnt it meant to be the dogs b's ? a lot of people realized that it is a dog of an os, no operating system in my book should use that much of a systems resources to simply run it, let alone do anything constructive with it, just my 2 pence

#1063

ranch hand said: I have a fairly new box (see sig) that will not run compiz. This is fine with me as I can't stand it anyway, just silly crap.

I am a little upset that it will not run GS either. I may not like it. I may love it. I do not have the chance to see because it will not run.

I do have a 10.04 install that was running the 2.6.33-999 kernel (dropped it) and is still running with the xorg.edgers stuff. Compiz will work to some extent on it but GS is still a no go.

Maybe compositing is needed for a desktop. I seriously doubt it unless you want silly eye candy with no purpose but to entertain.

It could be that they have developed a great thing in GS. I would say that there are a lot of boxes out there that will not run it and that is just not right.

Gnome Shell won't run on that quad core rig in your sig?

o.O

Are you serious????

techno-mole said: curious that your system wont run compiz, it seems powerful enough to run it, i dont know anything about ati graphics cards, but it sounds like it would be fine, again curious.

That rig is PLENTY, PLENTY powerful enough to run compiz. I run compiz on integrated intel graphics on older systems with 512 ram and it smiles at me. I don't know much about ATI though as you mentioned. I've always avoided ATI, despite the fact it sounds like ATI has caught up quite a bit in the last year or two.

#1064

I'm one of the people here who happens to LOVE! Gnome-shell! Combined with docky it really works well :) And that for an Alpha (it's alpha right?). Have any of you guys gotten to customizing yet? As far as I've seen there is allot that can be customized :P

#1065

HalfEmptyHero said: I'm getting a bunch of screen flickers sometimes when I activate the overlay or click on the calendar. It doesn't effect the usability, however it is pretty annoying. I am using the latest version from the rictoz ppa. Is anyone else experiencing similar things?I've noticed this for about a week now on my desktop, it seems to occur when there is high RAM usage. The mouse can be anywhere on the screen and it will still happen. It doesn't affect what I am doing because I set my machine to work and leave it only to check on it every half hour or so.

#1066

The required compositing is a real problem ! I have a one year old laptop I managed to get proprietary drivers working on. But I really don´t know how a newbie could install such things ! I´m really sad when I feel that gnome-shell will fail because of bad technical choices and because of these stupid graphic cards manufacturer.

#1067

feuloren said: The required compositing is a real problem ! I have a one year old laptop I managed to get proprietary drivers working on. But I really don´t know how a newbie could install such things !

I´m really sad when I feel that gnome-shell will fail because of bad technical choices and because of these stupid graphic cards manufacturer.

Hey, bro... Gnome panels aren't going anywhere right away. Gnome Shell (as far as it seems right now) appears to just be an available option - not a requirement to run Gnome itself.

#1068

Roasted said: Gnome Shell won't run on that quad core rig in your sig?

o.O

Are you serious????

That rig is PLENTY, PLENTY powerful enough to run compiz. I run compiz on integrated intel graphics on older systems with 512 ram and it smiles at me. I don't know much about ATI though as you mentioned. I've always avoided ATI, despite the fact it sounds like ATI has caught up quite a bit in the last year or two. Well I guess it depends on your definition of "run". If you mean that it should lock the system up so tight the only way to get out is by unplugging the box, then it runs. That is with the generic driver.

With the binary from the repos it will respond to Alt+SysRq+b. Improvement.

With the driver downloaded from ATI for this card (new - wasn't one 7 months ago) I can Ctrl+Alt+F2 and reboot from there. Big improvement.

With xorg.edgers stuff going 10.04 with the standard kernel will run compiz somewhat with the settings set for "extra". I say somewhat because it does not look like the screen shots I have seen from other folks. My windows do not wobble after quite a fight to get the setting to stick bot that wonderful feature does work as it should, if you are into that kind of irritation.

The cube business is where things do not, I think, work "right". I may well be wrong but it seems from screen shots that the cube is to be visible on the desktop in front of the wallpaper if you have no app up and running. If that is correct then mine is not right. There is just the normal wallpaper that irritates the piss out of me by Spinning to another workspace.

I do not know if I am supposed to be able to, in the Workspace Switcher, be able to click and drag an app to a different workspace or not under compiz. I can't. Whether this is right or not that really bugs me.

#1069

Did you disable Desktop Effects under Appearance before starting gnome-shell?

Edit: Also, did you try installing via Envyng? May or may not help, but you may as well try everything.

#1070

I have attempted to start GS on all three settings with no difference in results.

Things are improving to the point that I can get this amount of function in compiz with the standard kernel with the edgers stuff going.

That particular install will be reinstalled for A3 ISO testing next week. I will try it all again then with no compiz stuff ever enabled (I sure will not miss it). If the ppa GS doesn't work I will try compiling. If that doesn't work I will go back to the 2.6.33-999 kernel.

At this point I suspect none of this will do any good at all but there is only one way to find out.

#1071

Have you ran GS on a Nvidia or Intel machine? I'm wondering if it's ATI/ATI Drivers that are being a bear in your case.

#1072

The only box I have is this one. I am tempted to install 10.04 on the wife s laptop but that would not be cool. It too, runs an ATI card but a better supported one.

Have not tried compiz on it as she likes it less than I do (hard to do).

I may install on an external and install the Sys76 drivers and try with hers though.

I have been sure that is the problem all along. The xorg.edgers stuff runs the best so there may be hope for this box before the bugger is actually released.

I want to try it now. Whine whine.

#1073

icyzer said: I'm one of the people here who happens to LOVE! Gnome-shell!

Combined with docky it really works well :) And that for an Alpha (it's alpha right?). Have any of you guys gotten to customizing yet? As far as I've seen there is allot that can be customized :P

ive looked at docky, but i prefer cairo dock or awn, at the moment i cant run awn as im running gnome shell, but cairo dock works well, i also like it because i can detach applets from the dock and use them as desktop widgets, i like to keep an eye on the weather so i use various weather widgets (im a gardener, well least thats what i keep telling myself) although i can look out of my window and see that today the weather is c@#p with a capital C.

looking forward to posting some ideas on the gs mailing lists, gs is growing on me.

#1074

techno-mole said: ive looked at docky, but i prefer cairo dock or awn, at the moment i cant run awn as im running gnome shell, but cairo dock works well, i also like it because i can detach applets from the dock and use them as desktop widgets, i like to keep an eye on the weather so i use various weather widgets (im a gardener, well least thats what i keep telling myself) although i can look out of my window and see that today the weather is c@#p with a capital C.

looking forward to posting some ideas on the gs mailing lists, gs is growing on me. Mmm, how weird... AWN works here.. But I prefer Docky over anw because docky has the 'wave like' motion when moving your mouse... awn doesn't :P I've tryed Cairo a while back, no go. That and atm docky is the only one that works vertically afaik :)

I've subscribed to the mailing list, how does that whole work?

#1075

you can run cairo dock top,bottom,left,right what ever you feel like, it works well vertically and there are themes for it that look a lot like the docky themes.

maybe ill give awn ago, to be honest i havent tried it with gnome shell, but i guess it should work, although again i like cairo dock because of being able to detach applets and run them as widgets.

the gnoem shell mailing lists are easy enoug i guess, you can email suggestions and such like to them, i guess its kind of a way to combine people ideas, this way the developers can see what people think about it, and where things can be improved etc, features people may want and such like.

i think themes for gnome shell will be an issue at some point, generally speaking people like to customize things a lot, and unless you know css and js its not that easy for people who arent that experienced in this kind of thing.

#1076

I had to remove gnome-shell, I really loved it but it got my GPU up to 97 degrees Celcius, idle. To bad...

Hope the next build works better...

#1077

what are your system specs ? i really cant see how gnome shell would make your cpu get to nearly 100% while idling, it would suggest to me that there might be something else going on.

when was the last time you cleaned out the inside of your pc case ?

heres why im wondering why your having issues, if i open a terminal and type "top" here are the top 4 entries 1 - cpu - 1% process xorg 2 - cpu - 2% process firefox 3 - on idle mutter doesnt even show up, if i use a feature of gnome shell i get cpu - 10% process mutter and xorgs cpu requirements increase to 5% 4 - cpu -4% process cairo dock

both my cores are at 32 degrees, i only have the stock heatsink that came with the cpu on it, nothing special cooling wise, although the system is due for a clean.

#1078

techno-mole said: what are your system specs ? i really cant see how gnome shell would make your cpu get to nearly 100% while idling, it would suggest to me that there might be something else going on.

when was the last time you cleaned out the inside of your pc case ?

heres why im wondering why your having issues, if i open a terminal and type "top" here are the top 4 entries 1 - cpu - 1% process xorg 2 - cpu - 2% process firefox 3 - on idle mutter doesnt even show up, if i use a feature of gnome shell i get cpu - 10% process mutter and xorgs cpu requirements increase to 5% 4 - cpu -4% process cairo dock

both my cores are at 32 degrees, i only have the stock heatsink that came with the cpu on it, nothing special cooling wise, although the system is due for a clean. I've got a samsung r510 laptop. With dualcore 2,26 ghz and a Geforce 9200M GS. The problem isn't the CPU load it's the overal temperature of the laptop.

With gnome-shell on my videocard (GPU) is 97 degrees Celsius, and the other termometers indicated around 80-90 degrees celsius. I don't think it's all due too gnome-shell because when I turn gnome-shell off it still indicates 83 degrees. For as far as I know that is still too hot.

It's hard to find any information/solution regarding this problem :(

#1079

GNOME Shell has improved massively from when I last tested it (from when it was first built for testing). Although I'm still not fond of having to zoom out to switch application..

#1080

lee.jarratt said: GNOME Shell has improved massively from when I last tested it (from when it was first built for testing). Although I'm still not fond of having to zoom out to switch application..

You'll get used to it, just don't use a dock ;)

#1081

techno-mole said: what are your system specs ? i really cant see how gnome shell would make your cpu get to nearly 100% while idling, it would suggest to me that there might be something else going on.

when was the last time you cleaned out the inside of your pc case ?

heres why im wondering why your having issues, if i open a terminal and type "top" here are the top 4 entries 1 - cpu - 1% process xorg 2 - cpu - 2% process firefox 3 - on idle mutter doesnt even show up, if i use a feature of gnome shell i get cpu - 10% process mutter and xorgs cpu requirements increase to 5% 4 - cpu -4% process cairo dock

both my cores are at 32 degrees, i only have the stock heatsink that came with the cpu on it, nothing special cooling wise, although the system is due for a clean.

htop is more accurate to be honest. Top often shows incorrect RAM usage.

#1082

icyzer said: I've got a samsung r510 laptop. With dualcore 2,26 ghz and a Geforce 9200M GS. The problem isn't the CPU load it's the overal temperature of the laptop.

With gnome-shell on my videocard (GPU) is 97 degrees Celsius, and the other termometers indicated around 80-90 degrees celsius. I don't think it's all due too gnome-shell because when I turn gnome-shell off it still indicates 83 degrees. For as far as I know that is still too hot.

It's hard to find any information/solution regarding this problem :( To add the top information:

#1 Xorg 30-45% While typing it suddenly dropped to 10% after being at 30-40 for quite a while, weird... #2 firefox 12% (that's 2 windows and about a dozen tabs) #3 Transmission 6% #4 Rhytmbox 5%

Xorg seems like a bit to much cpu usage...

#1083

ive had a look at the cooling system for that particular laptop, at least the cpu cooler anyway.

i would still give it a good clean, if you know how to take it apart that is, although the various coolers should be easy enough to get to, just a case of removing a cover or 2.

if you cant get into the cooling fans get yourself a can of air (http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=25351) and give the vents a quick blast of that, all the vents you can find.

the other thing that normally causes laptops to over heat is having them on your lap, or on a bed etc, or any place where air cant circulate around the under side, ideally the laptop should be used on a flat, even surface so air can get underneath it, or you could get something like this - http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221694 or this http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221693

i cant think of any other reason why it would be over heating, is the graphics card a shared (eg - uses some of the system ram) or not ? maybe giving the system more ram ?

maybe its just one of those things, which again highlights why things like compiz,gnome shell etc shouldnt be enabled by default as they could cause issues for people.

#1084

techno-mole said: ive had a look at the cooling system for that particular laptop, at least the cpu cooler anyway.

i would still give it a good clean, if you know how to take it apart that is, although the various coolers should be easy enough to get to, just a case of removing a cover or 2.

if you cant get into the cooling fans get yourself a can of air (http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=25351) and give the vents a quick blast of that, all the vents you can find.

the other thing that normally causes laptops to over heat is having them on your lap, or on a bed etc, or any place where air cant circulate around the under side, ideally the laptop should be used on a flat, even surface so air can get underneath it, or you could get something like this - http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221694 or this http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=221693

i cant think of any other reason why it would be over heating, is the graphics card a shared (eg - uses some of the system ram) or not ? maybe giving the system more ram ?

maybe its just one of those things, which again highlights why things like compiz,gnome shell etc shouldnt be enabled by default as they could cause issues for people. First of all, thanks allot for the effort you put in to it :) Maybe a clean isn't that bad an idea. I think I'll go for the can of air, I don't want to loose my warranty :P

The laptop itself is placed on a flat surface (wooden desk) so the airflow is quite good. The weird thing is I've never noticed it getting this hot on windows. That's been a few weeks though. I just hope it's not a hardware failure :)

#1085

OlyPerson said: GS does use compositing which is the main complaint against it.

Why is this a *complaint*? The main reason *why* I chose GnomeShell over Compiz was its inherent compositing.

#1086

Can anyone help me solve a strange issue: my desktop wallpaper seems to have a thin, white line around it. Any ideas?

Interesting note: when I take a screenshot, it doesn't show.

#1087

moore.bryan said: Why is this a *complaint*? The main reason *why* I chose GnomeShell over Compiz was its inherent compositing.

Because it requires it, and therefore some people can not run it at all.

#1088

moore.bryan said: Why is this a *complaint*? The main reason *why* I chose GnomeShell over Compiz was its inherent compositing.

Basically what Merk said: there is no choice and many people's computers simply cannot use compositing. I believe that's why it won't work with virtual machines either, but I'm not 100% sure if that's the reason.

On another note, it's really interesting following all the small changes, almost every day there is something new.

#1089

lee.jarratt said: GNOME Shell has improved massively from when I last tested it (from when it was first built for testing). Although I'm still not fond of having to zoom out to switch application..

And this is still a feature they -need- to integrate. I feel as though Gnome Shell is not that user friendly at all without the use of a dock.

But that's okay, fortunately there's Docky and AWN that both do fantastic jobs at filling in the relatively large gaping hole Gnome Shell leaves open.

Here's to hoping they integrate some sort of window switcher... something that has been said no less than 400 times in this thread/mailing lists/Gnome Shell IRC/etc. :) :) :) :)

#1090

@ Roasted. What gets me with G-S and its setup is the fact that, imho, it should be easy to intergrate some type of Gnome 2.x style panel functionality. The top panel in G-S, again imho, really needs to be able to do more than it already does.

#1091

k3lt01 said: @ Roasted. What gets me with G-S and its setup is the fact that, imho, it should be easy to intergrate some type of Gnome 2.x style panel functionality. The top panel in G-S, again imho, really needs to be able to do more than it already does.

I agree. I've said it a thousand times before... they NEED some sort of window or application switcher. If not, users will flock to Docky to handle what GS fails to acknowledge that it needs to do.

But hey, there's quite a while to go till it lands... Things could change yet.

#1092

Is anyone else getting this error whilst trying to drag a window to a different workspace? (radeon driver):

(mutter:3660): Clutter-WARNING **: The required ID of 12107719
does not refer to an existing actor; this usually implies that the 
pick() of an actor is not correctly implemented or that there is an 
error in the glReadPixels() implementation of the GL driver.
#1093

Roasted said: I agree. I've said it a thousand times before... they NEED some sort of window or application switcher. If not, users will flock to Docky to handle what GS fails to acknowledge that it needs to do.

But hey, there's quite a while to go till it lands... Things could change yet.

It's probably had been suggested before(there's 110 pages after all:) ) but I'll say it again anyway. They could make an auto-hideable, small taskbar to the right or bottom of the screen. So top-left will open the current menus, bottom-right will open the taskbar. And they can get rid of the top bar, it's very useless and a waste of space currently.

#1094

Merk42 said: Because it requires it, and therefore some people can not run it at all.

I always viewed it as "providing" compositing, rather than "requiring" it; however, point taken.

OlyPerson said: Basically what Merk said: there is no choice and many people's computers simply cannot use compositing. I believe that's why it won't work with virtual machines either, but I'm not 100% sure if that's the reason.

"[M]any people's computers?" Really? Do you know of any computer manufactured in the last five years that doesn't? I'd be interested to see that... my *ancient* iMac "FlowerPot" G4 runs compositing...

Roasted said: And this is still a feature they -need- to integrate. I feel as though Gnome Shell is not that user friendly at all without the use of a dock.

Interesting take, Roasted. One of the reasons why I *stopped* using Gnome-Do's Docky was *because* GnomeShell's "pull-out" made it redundant.

#1095

Roasted said: And this is still a feature they -need- to integrate. I feel as though Gnome Shell is not that user friendly at all without the use of a dock.

But that's okay, fortunately there's Docky and AWN that both do fantastic jobs at filling in the relatively large gaping hole Gnome Shell leaves open.

Here's to hoping they integrate some sort of window switcher... something that has been said no less than 400 times in this thread/mailing lists/Gnome Shell IRC/etc. :) :) :) :)

Try forcing yourself to use it without a dock for a few days, I'm zipping around with pure GS now, with no issues whatsoever.

Optln said: It's probably had been suggested before(there's 110 pages after all:) ) but I'll say it again anyway. They could make an auto-hideable, small taskbar to the right or bottom of the screen. So top-left will open the current menus, bottom-right will open the taskbar. And they can get rid of the top bar, it's very useless and a waste of space currently.

Then what about the notification area? That's what currently pops up when touching the lower-right corner. I say do without and discover for yourself that it is unnecessary.

#1096

NCLI said: Try forcing yourself to use it without a dock for a few days, I'm zipping around with pure GS now, with no issues whatsoever.

I have. In fact, I eventually thought maybe I was just being kind of a stubborn ******* in regard to it when a few users here began saying the same thing to me, so I forced myself to use Gnome Shell exclusively for 30 days without the use of a dock. I made it about 3 weeks before I seriously wanted to punch every toddler nearby.

It's not that I don't think Gnome Shell is user friendly, but I feel as though the entire experience is hindered extensively by the lack of some sort of window or application switcher. I consider myself a power user. I multitask. A lot. So for me to continually have to hot corner to the upper left is a total PITA when maybe I'm sick of zooming in/out all of the time. Why can't I just snap over with the mouse and single click to my application?

I feel as though the overview is very, very solid. It's a great way to manage open windows. But when I use it as my soul means of switching through active applications, it tends to make me sick after 10 or 15 minutes.

And yes, I've tried to adapt to alt-tab. Didn't fly. I really just think they need an option, some sort of feature we can enable in the preferences to allow the many users (it's about a 10 to 3 ratio from users who want it vs users who don't want it, from what I've seen) to fill in the gap we'd like to see filled.

But fortunately the notification system is no longer activated by hitting the bottom of the screen, and only activated by hot cornering to the right, therefore making my auto-hide Docky2 compliment Gnome Shell VERY nicely, in my opinion.

Wouldn't use GS without it. Ever. So at least if GS lands without an integrated solution, I'll be quite happy to fire up Docky2. I just feel as though it makes GS feel very incomplete to have this feeling of installing a dock to make it feel complete. It kind of chips out a -1 to GS in my book. But it's not over yet - many months to go. Much faith is still had. We'll see. :)

#1097

moore.bryan said:

Interesting take, Roasted. One of the reasons why I *stopped* using Gnome-Do's Docky was *because* GnomeShell's "pull-out" made it redundant.

I'm not sure what you mean, exactly. When you say Gnome Shell's pull-out, do you mean how it zooms out to the overview?

I said in my last post that while I think the overview is awesome, to continually zoom in/out just to simply switch an application multiplied by how many times a minute multiplied by how many times an hour, etc etc, it didn't fly well with me. I preferred to use the overview as a way to manage active applications and a way to manage workspaces - not as a way to navigate through open windows. It just didn't feel... right.

And once I tried the PPA of Docky2, I found it was quite a bit better than the Docky that was integrated in Gnome-Do, so I was sold. :)

I'm not saying Gnome Shell must be changed to cater to me. I'm just one of quite a large quantity of people who believe the same thing. Just integrate a feature to allow us to activate a docky-like feature. It would make more sense, in my mind. I just don't see how having to use Docky or AWN or anything else with Gnome Shell is the "answer" to completing its user experience. I just think -something- needs to be integrated.

It's kind of like buying a new computer. You buy it and you're like, pfft, look at all of this stupid bloatware. Let me uninstall this, and this, and this, and this, to get my computer use-able without all of this garbage starting up. In my mind, to fire up Gnome Shell and think, ahh wait, I gotta get a dock so it has a more sensible way of switching through active applications......... I don't see the logic in that. It'd be one thing if it was me vs the world, but I've seen the majority of users voice the same opinion I have. I'm just a little more headstrong about voicing it.

#1098

moore.bryan said:

"[M]any people's computers?" Really? Do you know of any computer manufactured in the last five years that doesn't? I'd be interested to see that... my *ancient* iMac "FlowerPot" G4 runs compositing...

Ranch Hand, paging Mr. Ranch Hand... come to the GNOME Shell thread...

#1099

i have just noticed that if i mouse over the bottom left of the screen a shaded bar the length of the screen shows up, what is it ? would it be the gnome shell notification area ? and if so what exactly is it meant to notify you of ? mines blank, nothing in it, but then that may well be because things havent been implemented as yet.

#1100

techno-mole said: i have just noticed that if i mouse over the bottom left of the screen a shaded bar the length of the screen shows up, what is it ? would it be the gnome shell notification area ? and if so what exactly is it meant to notify you of ? mines blank, nothing in it, but then that may well be because things havent been implemented as yet.

You don't have the most recent build. In the most recent build it only shows up if you mouse over the bottom right. It is the notification area, check out the screens in the first post of this thread.

#1101

did i say left ? i meant right, but it doesnt show anything, i dont get a little blue circle with a question mark in it.

i have attached some screen shots after building from source, one with it active and one without, you can easily see the difference. i know its still in testing, but i thought it might do something, but it doesnt appear to on my system anyway.

#1102

techno-mole said: did i say left ? i meant right, but it doesnt show anything, i dont get a little blue circle with a question mark in it.

i have attached some screen shots after building from source, one with it active and one without, you can easily see the difference. i know its still in testing, but i thought it might do something, but it doesnt appear to on my system anyway.

The blue i appears when something activates the message tray. Have someone message you and see it show up (tried Pidgin, I'm assuming works in Empathy)

#1103

that explains it then, i dont use instant messaging, least not for the last 6 years or so. can either pidgin or empathy be configured to receive twitter messages ? thats about the only social network type thing i use, not on facebook and dont use msn, although i do have a yahoo email which i think i can use for yahoo messenger.

does it notify of anything else ?

least im not puzzled anymore, when i first saw it i was scratching my head wondering what the hell i had done this time :-)

cheers

#1104

techno-mole said: does it notify of anything else ?

least im not puzzled anymore, when i first saw it i was scratching my head wondering what the hell i had done this time :-)

cheers

Not sure about currently, but if this mockup is anything to go by it will work for music, mail, and I'm not sure of those other icons

#1105

OlyPerson said: Basically what Merk said: there is no choice and many people's computers simply cannot use compositing. I believe that's why it won't work with virtual machines either, but I'm not 100% sure if that's the reason.

I'm a bit skeptical that the number of people that can't use compositing is actually all that high.

Requiring people to have working OpenGL support in their hardware/driver combo for compositing to work is another story. The number of people with unacceptable OpenGL performance is significantly higher than the number of people with unacceptable Xrender performance.

Of course what is or isn't acceptable performance is a bit subjective and I don't know what the Xrender support is like when running in a VM.

Later, Seeker

#1106

lovinglinux said: I have already said goodbye GNOME because of that and because I don't like the design and the workflow of GNOME Shell. Anyway, I'm running KDE since Karmic Beta and I'm loving it. ;)

I'd like to know what is better about KDE. Perhaps I would like it.

PS: there's all these undefined terms for advanced folks in the first post. I intend to look them up one at a time. I expect there are others in my shoes. (Maybe that's why they are so tight?)

"Peas and good jams to you"

#1107

So I looked at the git page and it looks like the version was bumped to 2.29.0. Looks like it's reached alpha stage? And also there seems to now be a manual for it.

#1108

Hi guys,

this just came today on the mailing list. Lots lots lots of improvements.

GNOME Shell 2.29.0 is now available at:

http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnome-shell/2.29

7429cd9689e1a2e302b1c23e06c576ee6b0542a7f1c72c4c0efce3d83842aa58 gnome-shell-2.29.0.tar.bz2 bc1dd6426c59e4a93d2768c408d5b34181aa722d5e83ea4c811c1eb19261e3f5 gnome-shell-2.29.0.tar.gz

Note on Clutter requirement: Due to problems encountered in testing GNOME Shell against Clutter 1.1, gnome-shell-2.29.0 still requires Clutter 1.0. We expect to have the problems in Clutter and gnome-shell resolved before the release of gnome-shell-2.29.1, and switch over to requiring Clutter 1.1 for that.

About GNOME Shell =================

GNOME Shell provides core user interface functions for the GNOME 3 desktop, like switching to windows and launching applications. GNOME Shell takes advantage of the capabilities of modern graphics hardware and introduces innovative user interface concepts to provide a visually attractive and easy to use experience.

This is still a VERY EARLY version of GNOME Shell and should not be taken of indicative of the final user interface or performance.

We are providing tarball releases at this point largely to allow distributions to start building packaging for GNOME Shell. If you are interested in building GNOME Shell from source, we would recommend building from version control using the build script described at:

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell

Not only will that give you the very latest version of this rapidly changing project, it will be much easier than get GNOME Shell and its dependencies to build from tarballs.

Changes since 2.28.0 ====================

Includes a status area for past notifications, and also pulls in "urgent window" handled in GNOME 2 by flashing the taskbar. [Dan, Marina, Florian M, Adel, Jon N]

  • New message tray showing notifications sliding into the bottom of the screen.
  • Add the ability to set your presence to the user status menu [Dan]
  • Allow switching the overview between a grid and linear view of workspaces [Maxim]
  • Redo the application browser to use a grid of icons [Maxim]
  • Initial version of the extension system [Colin, Siegfried]
  • Initial support for RTL layout in ST and the shell [Abderrahim]
  • Add undo capability to overview, e.g., when removing favorites [Maxim]
  • New workspace switcher popup [Adel, Mads]

- Show a scaled-up excerpt from the application item in the panel [Colin] - Minimize windows to 'Activities' button [Adel] - Fade out desktop icons when showing overview =Florian M] - Use a fixed ordering for well-known icons in the system tray [Colin] - Nicer animation of hidden windows when transitioning to/from the overview [Leon] - Draw a ripple when the hot corner is hit [Owen - collaboratively hacked in a MIT IAP session]

  • Work on visual appearance to match mockups [Adel, Colin, Florian M]
  • Port most of existing code to CSS [Colin]
  • Other visual improvements

- Many behavior and visual refinements based on design feedback [Dan] - Show a separator between windows on this and other workspaces [Steve] - Position on the currently focused monitor [Adel] - Bug fixes [Steve]

  • App switcher (Alt-Tab) improvements

- Allow workspace switching by mousewheel on indicators in overview ]Adel] - Allow dropping on workspace indicators [Adel] - Enable DND of search results [Florian M] - When closing a window from the overview that puts up a confirm dialog, switch to that dialog [Florian M] - When the sidebar is collapsed, auto-hide it [Florian S] - Show "No matching results" when search matches nothing [Colin] - Limit user to 16 workspaces [Dan] - Allow clicking on any part of section headers in the dash for browsing [Florian M] - Match on executable names as well when searching [Florian M] - For clock AM/PM vs. 24-hour based on the locale ['res']

  • Miscellaneous behavioral improvements

. width/height [Steve] . max-width/max-height [Dan] . -st-shadow [Florian M] . gradients [Colin, Florian M] . radial gradients [Florian M] . Non-uniform border widths (when no corner radius) [Colin] . text-decoration: [underline|strikethrough] [Colin]

  • ST (Shell Toolkit) improvements
  • CSS addtions:
  • Make allocation behavior consistent across actors [Dan]
  • Support fixed-position children in StBoxLayout [Colin]
  • Support raising and lowering children in StBoxLayout [Colin]
  • Add st_box_layout_move_child and st_box_layout_insert_actor [Marina]
  • Add st_box_layout_remove_all, st_box_layout_destroy_children, st_box_layout_get_n_children [Colin]
  • Add StClickable, StOverflowBox actors [Colin]
  • Support setting scrollbar policy on StScrollView [Colin]
  • Support shadows on edges of StScrollView to hint at more content [Maxim]
  • Make places results available in search [JP]
  • Handle changes to the current resolution [Maxim, Florian M]
  • Bug fixes for multihead support [Florian S, Siegfried]
  • Make screen shell recorder work again [Owen, Jon N]
  • More miscellaneous improvements
  • Add gnome-shell --eval-file=<file> to eval file in running shell via D-BUS [Colin]
  • Add eject buttons to places section [Florian M]
  • Add completion to the Alt-F2 run dialog [Maxim]
  • Make screen recording parameters configurable [Adel]
  • Add an initial version of a manpage [Marcelo]

Nickolas, Owen, Siegfried, Steve]

  • Performance improvements [Colin, Florian M]
  • Code cleanups [Adel, Colin, Dan, Marina, Owen]
  • Bug fixes [Adel, Carlos, Colin, Dan, Florian M, Gustavo, Jon M, JP, Maxim,
  • Build fixes [Andre, Colin, Dan, Javier, Marina, Maxim, Owen, Richard]

Code Contributors: Maxim Ermilov, Steve Frécinaux, Adel Gadllah, Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals, Leon Handreke, Richard Hughes, Abderrahim Kitouni, Andre Klapper, Javier Jardón, Nickolas Lloyd, William Jon McCann, Florian Müllner, Carlos Martín Nieto, Jon Nettleton, JP St. Pierre, Gustavo Noronha Silva, Owen Taylor, Marcelo Jorge Vieira, Mads Villadsen, Colin Walters, Dan Winship, Marina Zhurakhinskaya, 'res'

Design: William Jon McCann, Jeremy Perry (and others)

Translations: Khaled Hosny (ar), Ivaylo Valkov (bg), Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (ca), Petr Kovar (cz), Mario Blättermann (de), Kris Thomsen (dk), Jorge González (es), Timo Jyrinki (fi), Claude Paroz (fr), Antón Méixome (gl), Jennie Petoumenou (gr), Liel Fridman (he), Gabor Kelemen (hu), Milo Casagrande (it), Kjartan Maraas (nb), A S Alam (pa), Amanda Magalhães (pt_BR), Lucian Grijincu (ro), Sergey V. Kovylov, Andrey Korzinev, Marina Zhurakhinskaya (ru), Milo&#353; Popovi&#263; (sb), Daniel Nylander (se), Matej Urban&#269;i&#269; (sl), Nguy&#7877;n Thái Ng&#7885;c Duy (vi), 'jiero' (zh_CN)

Bugs fixed:

571109 Handle minimized windows better when switching to/from overlay 582229 Warnings everytime app monitor saves active apps 582655 associate windows per application in workspace view 582763 Maximising windows can make them very blocky as they "grow" 584526 Doesn't handle resolution changes 585473 BigRectangle: Use pre-multiplied colors 587069 Move the selection to the first search result on search and perform queued searches when the user hits Enter 588056 Add xterm and x11-apps as dependency in Debian and Ubuntu 590686 Can alt-Tab out of grab 591854 Removing all favorites makes it impossible to add new ones 591866 Implement new search design 591912 background doesn't show when nautilus isn't drawing the desktop 592024 dash: Make recent docs display two columns 593844 Alternative overview design idea 594556 Workspace indicator should darken for app-well menu 594671 improve new workspace button 595321 memory leaks (ongoing) 596264 2.28 tracker 596984 [docDisplay] Fix minimum height request, handle 0 allocation better 597044 More flexible interface for adding widgets to Chrome 597119 try to prevent accidental double trigger of overview 597271 Playing Full screen flash videos result into npviewer showing up in the app wheel 597577 Applications Menu not showing anything 597677 Completion in alt+F2 597679 No overview of all desktops and can't close 597721 Fix overview to show on the correct monitor 597791 [AppSwitcher] Fix hiding the arrow on application change. 597882 Time ago strings don't get translated 597900 refinements for alt+tab 597919 [lg] Scroll to bottom when pushing a result 597944 [alt-tab] Separate windows in thumbnail list 598034 app well click should prefer current workspace 598111 typing too quickly results in the wrong application being launched 598227 Create ShellApp, rebase things on it 598313 use a stable ordering for core OS tray icons 598319 Improve transition to zoomed app 598324 refinements for the window selector 598389 Frequent wrong application ordering in alt-tab 598390 Screencasting doesn't work. 598462 [StBoxLayout] Support fixed-position children 598502 crash while doing stuff 598646 Split ShellAppMonitor into ShellWindowTracker, ShellAppUsage 598651 [AppSwitcher] Reimplement the separator using St.Bin 598691 [ShellGConf] Annotate list setters 598786 search not working with umlauts 598983 application menu does not have application name text 599125 Add Places to Search Panel. Eventually support files like "/home/" in the search panel. 599141 icon disappears from app menu 599206 [ShellWindowTracker] Don't skip "uninteresting" windows for focus 599412 [AppIcon] Keep glow up to date directly 599442 Port dash section headers to CSS 599560 [GenericDisplay] Only do redisplay when mapped 599561 Store GjsContext pointer in ShellGlobal 599661 in-progress work on extensionSystem 599926 multihead fullscreen hides activities panel 600672 Search Results is never showed after no results 600734 More Apps redesign and dependent infrastructure 600890 [genericDisplay] When setting a search, do a redisplay immediately 600982 Mouse lost behind the interface...on top of screen and in Activities screen 600999 fade out desktop icons if necessary when showing overview 601287 should not require support for URIs from apps when openning files from the recent files list 601290 Warning from titleless window 601413 [dash] Move BackLink to CSS 601458 Add presence items to status menu and port to JS 601854 [overview] Integer align workspace and pane positioning 601875 Sidebar not working anymore 602131 Port AppWell to CSS 602370 [PATCH] - clear text when closing run dialogue 602456 Syncronous fsync() in idle_save_application_usage() 602532 Overview should switch to confirm dialogs when closing 602598 WindowOverlay positions don't get updated when adding/removing workspaces in the overview 602772 Close button disappears when zooming in overview 602774 Selecting window not possible if only shown windows of one application 602802 Home Folder from shell-uri-util.c does not get translated 602976 Right click on places 603078 wrong sizing of 'all workspace' windows in overview 603327 Under Debian Testing, after a perfect build of the source, the shell don't start 603522 Add ShellDocSystem 603523 Add search.js, rebase search system on top 603546 Add a message tray with icons for ongoing conversations 603691 Add drop shadows to close buttons in overview 604005 places shortcuts should be searchable 604118 Autohide sidebar 604177 position sidebar on primary screen 604945 Implement radial gradients in CSS / St.Widget. 604963 Fix application thumbnail sizing when the height is greater than the width of a window. 605035 Free the family string in st_theme_node_get_font() 605249 Manpage for GNOME Shell 605491 Misc style/UI changes 605724 No rule to make target Pango-1.0.gir 605877 crash after excessive opening and closing the overview mode 606209 Search does not allow the user to correct typos 606257 updated look for running app indicator 606331 drop messaging.js, use notification-daemon protocol for IM stuff 606418 ALT+F2 doesnt'work in PATH is misconfigured 606460 need to decide the max number of workspaces allowed 606743 [search] Match on executable names as well 606755 handle long notifications better 606918 notifications from xchat throw error 606921 show summary mode briefly after notification 606922 duplicate entries for the home directory if desktop is home dir 607244 Don't show the empty messagetray 607351 Drag point wrong for application icons 607803 [WorkspaceView] Allow workspace switching using mousewheel + indicators 607824 Inconsistent mousewheel direction on workspace overview indicators 607825 [StButton] Hold ref to button until animation completes 607826 Window previews change positions when the number of workspaces changes 607872 Minor improvements to the new workspaces views 607882 docSystem related crash 608058 message tray isn't resolution aware 608062 [AppIcon] Leave overview when launching apps 608095 [ShellGlobal] Add shell_global_gc 608119 [StShadowTexture] Fix invalid unref of CoglHandle 608502 crashes caught on tape 608715 StWidget: Don't redraw gradient when size doesn't change 608746 Remove C99 use of non-constant initializers 608801 recent items list grid is weird and takes up space 608802 Setting "type" after construct fails with new glib 608847 st_widget_recompute_style triggers reallocation on map 608848 [ShellGenericContainer] Simplify tracking of skip-paint children 608914 Solid backgrounds may not be drawn 608915 Ellipsization problems in message tray 608933 InfoBar in overview. 608995 [recorder] Make parameters configureable 609053 [recorder] Use GL_MESA_pack_invert if available 609079 Consume windows by the Activities button on minimize 609135 Draw a ripple when the hot corner is hit 609187 Fancier workspace switcher popup 609206 windows titles not updated in overview window picker when they change 609243 Problems activating a zoomed window or cancelling overview 609257 [altTab] Position on the currently focused monitor 609339 Initialize global->root_pixmap to the stage color 609357 new button pressed look 609401 Change overview style to match latest mockup 609453 Fix up notification layout for subclassing 609454 Style for <delegate>.destroy() methods 609507 Alt+F2 does not work 609521 [main.js] Fix up "window-added/removed" callbacks 609522 [recorder] Fix recording when pipeline is not set 609604 [StScrollView] Implement bottom/top shadows. 609613 Switch to the corresponding app when the notification icon is clicked 609673 Improve scrolling behaviour in linear view 609765 Show message tray in the overview, and other message tray changes 609777 fallback icons cause items in alt-tab to be the wrong size 609811 Missed files in install rules. 609838 POTFILES.in: add missing files that have translatable strings 609848 Make allocation handling more consistent 609871 Add the workspaces view key to the gconf schema 609913 [Overview] Make indicators drop targets 610027 Search results should display running apps, switch to them when selected 610039 [main.js] Don't handle panel-run-dialog twice 610049 workspaceswitcher popup should have same proportions as actual screen 610070 alignment of window captions in window selector 610203 Tiled backgrounds are not displayed properly in the overview 610324 Assert in _shell_app_system_register_app 610417 failed build with mutter 2.29 610520 Summary shows/hides after the overview transition 610549 notification-daemon / message tray should handle "\n" in the body text specially 610594 Add demands attention support to the messagetray

Nico

#1109

I'm wondering. Has anyone found out how to edit the files as such to make the panel transparent? That would be awesome, I could set up conky to show the hardware info. Any ideas? I tryed some stuff myself but I'm not knowledged in the field of programming :)

#1110

icyzer said: I'm wondering. Has anyone found out how to edit the files as such to make the panel transparent? That would be awesome, I could set up conky to show the hardware info. Any ideas?

I tryed some stuff myself but I'm not knowledged in the field of programming :)

file: ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/data/theme/gnome-shell.css (if GIT version, I don't know where is this file located in case of PPA)

#panel {
    color: #ffffff;
    font-size: 16px;
    background-gradient-direction: vertical;
    background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0.98);
}

it gives nice vertical gradient top panel.

and ... just search is what you need ;-) (this thread)

#1111

I just upgraded to the 2.29 version using the Ricotz testing PPA. There are a few problems I noticed right away.

First, there were no applications listed in the Applications menu(the main menu, not the space for favorites/currently opened apps). It was empty. Restarted gdm, restarted system, no go. Then I just launched a .htm file to be able to use Mozilla, a text file, a media file and from then on, applications are listed in the menu. So, that's sorted.

Second is, the window transitions are NOT smooth at all. Jittery & slow. They were fine in the previous version. I am not sure if this has got something to do with the Ricotz PPA build. Hope to find the solution for this.

#1112

Is any one else seeing this. I was replying to a thread and the system seemed to lock up, I switched to a console and back again, which seemed to clear the lockup. The screens look OK when in full screen mode, it's just when I zoom out, that I see this weird corruption.

I'm using the ricotz ppa. Hardware is AMD X2 3800+ with 2Gb ram and a Nvidia GT210 using 195.36 drivers.

#1113

Is it the latest build 2.29 ?

#1114

Oh cool, the newest build broke the system again. I would think that being transitioned to 2.29.0 would at least herald somewhat more stability.

#1115

cariboo907 said: Is any one else seeing this. I was replying to a thread and the system seemed to lock up, I switched to a console and back again, which seemed to clear the lockup. The screens look OK when in full screen mode, it's just when I zoom out, that I see this weird corruption.

I'm using the ricotz ppa. Hardware is AMD X2 3800+ with 2Gb ram and a Nvidia GT210 using 195.36 drivers. Oh I had sort of the same with the repo version. For me Alt+f2 and the 'r' fixed it all.

#1116
#panel {
    color: #ffffff;
    font-size: 16px;
    background-gradient-direction: vertical;
    background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0.98);
}

it gives nice vertical gradient top panel.

ive been messing around with the css and the svg images, i just tried the css code you gave, my panel was mostly black ?

mine looks like this -

#panel {
    color: #ffffff;
    font-size: 16px;
    background-gradient-direction: vertical;
    background-gradient-start: #6E6E6E;
    background-gradient-end: #151515;
    border-bottom: 1px solid #1C1C1C;
}

this gives a grey panel, moving from a lightish shade to a darkish shade (vertically)

i have tried adding various things to see what happens, i did try some css transparency, but it didnt work. im thinking that transparency might be more to do with the compositing than the css.

the icons used in gnome shell can easily be changed using inkscape, colours,shapes etc you can get some interesting results, just make sure you keep the original names of svg files.

im thinking of making some theme packs that can be used with gnome shell, im not sure where the devs are going with theming, but this might lead to some interesting themes being created.

#1117

techno-mole said: ive been messing around with the css and the svg images, i just tried the css code you gave, my panel was mostly black ?

mine looks like this -

#panel {
    color: #ffffff;
    font-size: 16px;
    background-gradient-direction: vertical;
    background-gradient-start: #6E6E6E;
    background-gradient-end: #151515;
    border-bottom: 1px solid #1C1C1C;
}

this gives a grey panel, moving from a lightish shade to a darkish shade (vertically)

i have tried adding various things to see what happens, i did try some css transparency, but it didnt work. im thinking that transparency might be more to do with the compositing than the css.

the icons used in gnome shell can easily be changed using inkscape, colours,shapes etc you can get some interesting results, just make sure you keep the original names of svg files.

im thinking of making some theme packs that can be used with gnome shell, im not sure where the devs are going with theming, but this might lead to some interesting themes being created.

Did you try the suggested ``` background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0.98);

I think that is the important part and it seems you omitted it :P
#1118

Well, another wreck.

Reinstalled my ISO-testing 10.04 install.

Reinstalled the ppa version of GS. Was able to save terminal output to desktop. Ctrl+Alt+F2 got me out to reboot;


ike@ike-desktop:~$ gnome-shell --replace
do_wait: drmWaitVBlank returned -1, IRQs don't seem to be working correctly.
Try adjusting the vblank_mode configuration parameter.
do_wait: drmWaitVBlank returned -1, IRQs don't seem to be working correctly.
Try adjusting the vblank_mode configuration parameter.
      JS LOG: GNOME Shell started at Tue Feb 23 2010 15:48:48 GMT-0700 (MST)
      JS LOG: Failed to acquire org.freedesktop.Notifications; trying again

This was with the xorg.edgers stuff installed on the standard kernel.

I am bummed.

I said I would try compiling. I would say that means I have to do that.

That means I need to get rid of the GS I have installed. Is this a "remove" or a "purge" operation?

I am doing this in chroot. I wasted enough time over there today. Just not fooling around on there any more than I need to.

At least I did not fire up compiz and completely get pissed off. Glad that is gone from that OS, it just gets on my thungus.

#1119

Arlanthir said: Did you try the suggested ```

background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0.98);

I think that is the important part and it seems you omitted it :P

no the one i posted is the one im using, i did try the code you posted, but all i got was a near totally black panel.

you wouldnt happen to know what css versions gnome shell supports ? i was thinking about some css 3 code snippets that might be fun to try.

i will run the code you posted again and post screenshots.
#1120

here is a screenshot, it is very subtle, which is why i missed it the first time.

its not quite right though (in my opinion) for me it makes some of the tray icons look like they are not quite inline with the rest of the panel, for my own preference i prefer the icons to have an equal amount of panel top and bottom, so they look in line (where possible)

and although it is transparent, its not quite the same as you can do with the gnome panels, or other methods, maybe its something they are working on ?

again gnome shell has only just gone alpha (i think) so im not expecting much, just trying stuff out.

one thing though is that some times if i right click tray icons they are partly covered by the panel, so im thinking auto hiding might be a feature thats needed, it is for me as i like to not have panels,docks showing, unless i need them.

#1121

Is anyone else noticing the system tray on Gnome-Shell's panel keeps bumping to the left, with gnome-power-manager closing and reopening every half-minute or so?

It seems to be a gnome-power-manager issue; when I killed it, everything went back to normal.

#1122

techno-mole said: here is a screenshot, it is very subtle, which is why i missed it the first time.

its not quite right though (in my opinion) for me it makes some of the tray icons look like they are not quite inline with the rest of the panel, for my own preference i prefer the icons to have an equal amount of panel top and bottom, so they look in line (where possible)

and although it is transparent, its not quite the same as you can do with the gnome panels, or other methods, maybe its something they are working on ?

again gnome shell has only just gone alpha (i think) so im not expecting much, just trying stuff out.

one thing though is that some times if i right click tray icons they are partly covered by the panel, so im thinking auto hiding might be a feature thats needed, it is for me as i like to not have panels,docks showing, unless i need them.

background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0.98);

This is RGBA - the last value (0.98 ) is the alpha channel value - try with this - you can do anything you want. Additional you can delete lines with "gradient" - then you have solid panel or .... solid transparent .... or full transparent.

#1123

which part of the css deals with the top part of the overview mode ? (the search bar ?) I have played around with various aspects of the css, but couldnt find that particular part.

i did look in some other sections but again couldnt find the exact part that shows which image to display (the little magnifying glass) and what colours are what, the reason being is i changed the way the overview looked, but couldnt get the search bar the same colours, which really annoyed me, is it the css that deals with the search part ? if it is where does it reference the image to display ?

#1124

techno-mole said: which part of the css deals with the top part of the overview mode ? (the search bar ?) I have played around with various aspects of the css, but couldnt find that particular part.

i did look in some other sections but again couldnt find the exact part that shows which image to display (the little magnifying glass) and what colours are what, the reason being is i changed the way the overview looked, but couldnt get the search bar the same colours, which really annoyed me, is it the css that deals with the search part ? if it is where does it reference the image to display ?

The name of the image is "close-black.svg" for the x and "magnifier.svg" so just search for that in the css and see if it's in there. If it's not, it may be dealt with by the javascript scripts.

Edit: didn't see it in there or in search.js.

#1125

ive found it in dash, just trying to find the corresponding css, although it may not be there, as it seems the js deals with that section, at least i know its called "dash" (assuming thats short for dash board)

the problem ive had is that i can change the colouring of the overview,panel, the application menu, and search results, but ive found that some colour schemes obscure the word " find " in the search bar, so i need to find the css/js that changes that particular bit,

then i can work on creating a new theme/s, eg - change all colours of panel,overview,search results etc as well as editing the various image files so that they match/compliment the other colours

#1126

i still havent managed to change the text colour in the search bar, but ive added a background colour property to the css, which means i can blend the colouring so that it goes with the rest of the colours,but you can still see the text, but this will in turn mean that for lighter themes i might have to change the colour of the magnifying glass icon, which is pretty easy.

#1127

Am I the only one who has to do sudo jhbuild build?

#1128
   JS G REPO: Initialized class GIRepository prototype 0xa11fbc0
     JS G NS: Initialized class GIRepositoryNamespace prototype 0xa11fc20
     JS G NS: Defined namespace 'GLib' 0xa11fc40 in GIRepository 0xa11fbe0
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'gi'
     JS G NS: Defined namespace 'Clutter' 0xa11fc60 in GIRepository 0xa11fbe0
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gjs-1.0/dbus.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f820 of 0xa11fc80 'dbus' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gjs-1.0/lang.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f820 of 0xa1731e0 'lang' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: JS import 'langNative' not found in /usr/share/gjs-1.0
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/lib/gjs-1.0/langNative.so'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f820 of 0xa1732a0 'langNative' is mod 1
   JS NATIVE: Registered native JS module 'langNative'
   JS NATIVE: Defining native module 'langNative'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'langNative'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'lang'
   JS IMPORT: JS import 'dbusNative' not found in /usr/share/gjs-1.0
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/lib/gjs-1.0/dbusNative.so'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f820 of 0xa1732e0 'dbusNative' is mod 1
   JS NATIVE: Registered native JS module 'dbusNative'
   JS NATIVE: Defining native module 'dbusNative'
     JS DBUS: Initialized class DBusExports prototype 0xa173340
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'dbusNative'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'dbus'
     JS G NS: Defined namespace 'Gdk' 0xa173760 in GIRepository 0xa11fbe0
     JS G NS: Defined namespace 'Gio' 0xa173780 in GIRepository 0xa11fbe0
   JS IMPORT: JS import 'mainloop' not found in /usr/share/gjs-1.0
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/lib/gjs-1.0/mainloop.so'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f820 of 0xa1737a0 'mainloop' is mod 1
   JS NATIVE: Registered native JS module 'mainloop'
   JS NATIVE: Defining native module 'mainloop'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'mainloop'
     JS G NS: Defined namespace 'Meta' 0xa1737c0 in GIRepository 0xa11fbe0
     JS G NS: Defined namespace 'Shell' 0xa1737e0 in GIRepository 0xa11fbe0
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gjs-1.0/signals.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f820 of 0xa173800 'signals' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'signals'
     JS G NS: Defined namespace 'St' 0xa1738e0 in GIRepository 0xa11fbe0
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/chrome.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa173900 'chrome' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: JS import 'misc' not found in /usr/share/gjs-1.0
   JS IMPORT: JS import 'misc' not found in /usr/lib/gjs-1.0
   JS IMPORT: Adding directory '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/misc' to child importer 'misc'
   JS IMPORT: Importing directory 'misc'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f820 of 0xa173a00 'misc' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: Defined importer 'misc' 0xa173a00 in 0xa11f820
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported directory 'misc'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/misc/params.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa173a00 of 0xa173a80 'params' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'params'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'chrome'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/environment.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa173ce0 'environment' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gjs-1.0/gettext.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f820 of 0xa173d00 'gettext' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: JS import 'gettextNative' not found in /usr/share/gjs-1.0
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/lib/gjs-1.0/gettextNative.so'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f820 of 0xa173d20 'gettextNative' is mod 1
   JS NATIVE: Registered native JS module 'gettextNative'
   JS NATIVE: Defining native module 'gettextNative'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'gettextNative'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'gettext'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/tweener.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa173e00 'tweener' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: Adding directory '/usr/share/gjs-1.0/tweener' to child importer 'tweener'
   JS IMPORT: Adding directory '/usr/share/gjs-1.0/tweener' to child importer 'tweener'
   JS IMPORT: Adding directory '/usr/share/gjs-1.0/tweener' to child importer 'tweener'
   JS IMPORT: Importing directory 'tweener'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f820 of 0xa173e60 'tweener' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: Defined importer 'tweener' 0xa173e60 in 0xa11f820
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported directory 'tweener'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gjs-1.0/tweener/tweener.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa173e60 of 0xa173ee0 'tweener' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gjs-1.0/tweener/tweenList.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa173e60 of 0xa16b220 'tweenList' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'tweenList'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'tweener'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'tweener'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/misc/format.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa173a00 of 0xa16b500 'format' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'format'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'BoxLayout' in namespace 'St'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Widget' in namespace 'St'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Actor' in namespace 'Clutter'
     JS G NS: Defined namespace 'GObject' 0xa16b540 in GIRepository 0xa11fbe0
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'InitiallyUnowned' in namespace 'GObject'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Object' in namespace 'GObject'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class Object 0x9d0b288
    JS G OBJ: Defined class Object prototype 0xa16b560 class 0x9d0b288 in object 0xa16b540
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class InitiallyUnowned 0x9d0b2d8
    JS G OBJ: Defined class InitiallyUnowned prototype 0xa16b580 class 0x9d0b2d8 in object 0xa16b540
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class Actor 0x9d0b328
    JS G OBJ: Defined class Actor prototype 0xa16b5a0 class 0x9d0b328 in object 0xa11fc60
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class Widget 0x9d0b378
    JS G OBJ: Defined class Widget prototype 0xa16b5c0 class 0x9d0b378 in object 0xa1738e0
   JS G FUNC: Initialized class GIRepositoryFunction prototype 0xa16b5e0
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class BoxLayout 0x9d0b410
    JS G OBJ: Defined class BoxLayout prototype 0xa16b640 class 0x9d0b410 in object 0xa1738e0
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Table' in namespace 'St'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class Table 0x9d0b460
    JS G OBJ: Defined class Table prototype 0xa16b6c0 class 0x9d0b460 in object 0xa1738e0
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'environment'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/extensionSystem.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa16b740 'extensionSystem' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'extensionSystem'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/messageTray.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa16b920 'messageTray' is mod 1
     JS G NS: Defined namespace 'Pango' 0xa16baa0 in GIRepository 0xa11fbe0
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'messageTray'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/overview.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa18b1a0 'overview' is mod 1
     JS G NS: Defined namespace 'Big' 0xa18b1c0 in GIRepository 0xa11fbe0
     JS G NS: Defined namespace 'Gtk' 0xa18b1e0 in GIRepository 0xa11fbe0
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/appDisplay.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa18b280 'appDisplay' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/appFavorites.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa18b5a0 'appFavorites' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'appFavorites'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/dnd.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa18b840 'dnd' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'dnd'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/genericDisplay.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa18bb00 'genericDisplay' is mod 1
     JS G NS: Found info type STRUCT for 'Color' in namespace 'Clutter'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class Color 0x9d0b4b0
    JS G BXD: Defined class Color prototype is 0xa18be00 class 0x9d0b4b0 in object 0xa11fc60
    JS G BXD: Defining method from_pixel in prototype for Clutter.Color
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'genericDisplay'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/search.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa1db5e0 'search' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'search'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/workspace.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa1dba00 'workspace' is mod 1
     JS G NS: Defined namespace 'GdkPixbuf' 0xa1dbf20 in GIRepository 0xa11fbe0
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/lightbox.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa1dbf40 'lightbox' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'lightbox'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/panel.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa219160 'panel' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/calendar.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa2193a0 'calendar' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'calendar'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/statusMenu.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa219580 'statusMenu' is mod 1
     JS G NS: Defined namespace 'Gdm' 0xa2195c0 in GIRepository 0xa11fbe0
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'statusMenu'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'panel'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'workspace'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'appDisplay'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/docDisplay.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa1e68c0 'docDisplay' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/misc/docInfo.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa173a00 of 0xa1e6b00 'docInfo' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'docInfo'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'docDisplay'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/dash.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa1c4360 'dash' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/placeDisplay.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa1c4640 'placeDisplay' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'placeDisplay'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'dash'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/workspacesView.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa1bc8c0 'workspacesView' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'workspacesView'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'overview'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/runDialog.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa204960 'runDialog' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'runDialog'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/lookingGlass.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa204da0 'lookingGlass' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/link.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa1850a0 'link' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'link'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'lookingGlass'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/notificationDaemon.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa185680 'notificationDaemon' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'notificationDaemon'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/windowAttentionHandler.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa208720 'windowAttentionHandler' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'windowAttentionHandler'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/shellDBus.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa208920 'shellDBus' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'shellDBus'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/sidebar.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa208b00 'sidebar' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/widget.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa208c00 'widget' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'widget'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/widgetBox.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa182140 'widgetBox' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'widgetBox'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'sidebar'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/windowManager.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa182780 'windowManager' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/altTab.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa182820 'altTab' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'altTab'
   JS IMPORT: Importing '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/workspaceSwitcherPopup.js'
   JS IMPORT: Defining parent 0xa11f8a0 of 0xa255220 'workspaceSwitcherPopup' is mod 1
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'workspaceSwitcherPopup'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'windowManager'
   JS IMPORT: successfully imported module 'main'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Global' in namespace 'Shell'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Global' in namespace 'Shell'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class Global 0x9d0b500
    JS G OBJ: Defined class Global prototype 0xa2556e0 class 0x9d0b500 in object 0xa1737e0
   JS KP ALV: Initializing keep-alive class in context 0xa130400 global 0xa11f480
   JS KP ALV: Initialized class __private_GjsKeepAlive prototype 0xa255740
   JS KP ALV: Creating new keep-alive object for context 0xa130400 global 0xa11f480
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'DesktopAppInfo' in namespace 'Gio'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'DesktopAppInfo' in namespace 'Gio'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class DesktopAppInfo 0x9d0b550
    JS G OBJ: Defined class DesktopAppInfo prototype 0xa255780 class 0x9d0b550 in object 0xa173780
    JS G OBJ: Defining method grab_dbus_service in prototype for ShellGlobal (Shell.Global)
     JS DBUS: trying to connect to message bus
     JS DBUS: Successfully connected
     JS DBUS: Flushing bus
     JS G NS: Found info type FUNCTION for 'getenv' in namespace 'GLib'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Timeline' in namespace 'Clutter'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Timeline' in namespace 'Clutter'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class Timeline 0x9d0b5a0
    JS G OBJ: Defined class Timeline prototype 0xa255860 class 0x9d0b5a0 in object 0xa11fc60
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'WindowTracker' in namespace 'Shell'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'WindowTracker' in namespace 'Shell'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class WindowTracker 0x9d0b5f0
    JS G OBJ: Defined class WindowTracker prototype 0xa2558a0 class 0x9d0b5f0 in object 0xa1737e0
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'AppUsage' in namespace 'Shell'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'AppUsage' in namespace 'Shell'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class AppUsage 0x9d0b640
    JS G OBJ: Defined class AppUsage prototype 0xa255a40 class 0x9d0b640 in object 0xa1737e0
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Stage' in namespace 'Clutter'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Stage' in namespace 'Clutter'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Group' in namespace 'Clutter'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class Group 0x9d0b690
    JS G OBJ: Defined class Group prototype 0xa255aa0 class 0x9d0b690 in object 0xa11fc60
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class Stage 0x9d0b6e0
    JS G OBJ: Defined class Stage prototype 0xa255ae0 class 0x9d0b6e0 in object 0xa11fc60
    JS G OBJ: Found method get_children in interface 0 implemented by object
    JS G OBJ: Defining method get_children in prototype for ClutterGroup (Clutter.Group)
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'ThemeContext' in namespace 'St'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'ThemeContext' in namespace 'St'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class ThemeContext 0x9d0b730
    JS G OBJ: Defined class ThemeContext prototype 0xa255ba0 class 0x9d0b730 in object 0xa1738e0
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Theme' in namespace 'St'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Theme' in namespace 'St'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class Theme 0x9d0b780
    JS G OBJ: Defined class Theme prototype 0xa255c20 class 0x9d0b780 in object 0xa1738e0
    JS G OBJ: Defining method set_theme in prototype for StThemeContext (St.ThemeContext)
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'WM' in namespace 'Shell'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'WM' in namespace 'Shell'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class WM 0xa21d018
    JS G OBJ: Defined class WM prototype 0xa255da0 class 0xa21d018 in object 0xa1737e0
    JS G OBJ: Defining method takeover_keybinding in prototype for ShellWM (Shell.WM)
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'GConf' in namespace 'Shell'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'GConf' in namespace 'Shell'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class GConf 0xa21d068
    JS G OBJ: Defined class GConf prototype 0xa255e20 class 0xa21d068 in object 0xa1737e0
    JS G OBJ: Defining method watch_directory in prototype for ShellGConf (Shell.GConf)
    JS G OBJ: Defining method get_boolean in prototype for ShellGConf (Shell.GConf)
     JS G NS: Found info type FUNCTION for 'file_new_for_path' in namespace 'Gio'
     JS G NS: Found info type FUNCTION for 'get_home_dir' in namespace 'GLib'
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GLocalFile' so trying parent type 'GObject'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class GLocalFile 0xa21d0b8
    JS G OBJ: Defined class GLocalFile prototype 0xa255f00 class 0xa21d0b8 in object 0xa16b540
    JS G OBJ: Found method get_uri in native interface GFile
    JS G OBJ: Defining method get_uri in prototype for GLocalFile (GObject.Object)
     JS G NS: Found info type FUNCTION for 'util_get_label_for_uri' in namespace 'Shell'
     JS G NS: Found info type FUNCTION for 'util_get_icon_for_uri' in namespace 'Shell'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'ThemedIcon' in namespace 'Gio'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'ThemedIcon' in namespace 'Gio'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class ThemedIcon 0xa21d108
    JS G OBJ: Defined class ThemedIcon prototype 0xa147040 class 0xa21d108 in object 0xa173780
     JS G NS: Found info type FUNCTION for 'get_user_special_dir' in namespace 'GLib'
     JS G NS: Found info type ENUM for 'UserDirectory' in namespace 'GLib'
     JS G NS: Found info type ENUM for 'UserDirectory' in namespace 'GLib'
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value DIRECTORY_DESKTOP (fixed from directory_desktop) 0
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value DIRECTORY_DOCUMENTS (fixed from directory_documents) 1
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value DIRECTORY_DOWNLOAD (fixed from directory_download) 2
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value DIRECTORY_MUSIC (fixed from directory_music) 3
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value DIRECTORY_PICTURES (fixed from directory_pictures) 4
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value DIRECTORY_PUBLIC_SHARE (fixed from directory_public_share) 5
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value DIRECTORY_TEMPLATES (fixed from directory_templates) 6
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value DIRECTORY_VIDEOS (fixed from directory_videos) 7
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value N_DIRECTORIES (fixed from n_directories) 8
   JS G ENUM: Defining GLib.UserDirectory as 0xa147100
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GLocalFile' so trying parent type 'GObject'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'AppSystem' in namespace 'Shell'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'AppSystem' in namespace 'Shell'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class AppSystem 0xa21d158
    JS G OBJ: Defined class AppSystem prototype 0xa147280 class 0xa21d158 in object 0xa1737e0
    JS G OBJ: Defining method load_from_desktop_file in prototype for ShellAppSystem (Shell.AppSystem)
     JS G NS: Found info type STRUCT for 'AppInfo' in namespace 'Shell'
     JS G NS: Found info type STRUCT for 'AppInfo' in namespace 'Shell'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class AppInfo 0xa21d1a8
    JS G BXD: Defined class AppInfo prototype is 0xa147300 class 0xa21d1a8 in object 0xa1737e0
    JS G BXD: Defining method get_name in prototype for Shell.AppInfo
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'VolumeMonitor' in namespace 'Gio'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'VolumeMonitor' in namespace 'Gio'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class VolumeMonitor 0xa21d1f8
    JS G OBJ: Defined class VolumeMonitor prototype 0xa147480 class 0xa21d1f8 in object 0xa173780
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GUnionVolumeMonitor' so trying parent type 'GVolumeMonitor'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class GUnionVolumeMonitor 0xa21d248
    JS G OBJ: Defined class GUnionVolumeMonitor prototype 0xa1474e0 class 0xa21d248 in object 0xa173780
    JS G OBJ: Defining method get_connected_drives in prototype for GUnionVolumeMonitor (Gio.VolumeMonitor)
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GProxyDrive' so trying parent type 'GObject'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class GProxyDrive 0xa21d298
    JS G OBJ: Defined class GProxyDrive prototype 0xa147580 class 0xa21d298 in object 0xa16b540
    JS G OBJ: Found method get_volumes in native interface GDrive
    JS G OBJ: Defining method get_volumes in prototype for GProxyDrive (GObject.Object)
    JS G OBJ: Defining method get_volumes in prototype for GUnionVolumeMonitor (Gio.VolumeMonitor)
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GProxyVolume' so trying parent type 'GObject'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class GProxyVolume 0xa21d2e8
    JS G OBJ: Defined class GProxyVolume prototype 0xa147a80 class 0xa21d2e8 in object 0xa16b540
    JS G OBJ: Found method get_drive in native interface GVolume
    JS G OBJ: Defining method get_drive in prototype for GProxyVolume (GObject.Object)
    JS G OBJ: Found method get_mount in native interface GVolume
    JS G OBJ: Defining method get_mount in prototype for GProxyVolume (GObject.Object)
    JS G OBJ: Defining method get_mounts in prototype for GUnionVolumeMonitor (Gio.VolumeMonitor)
     JS G NS: Found info type FUNCTION for 'build_filenamev' in namespace 'GLib'
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GLocalFile' so trying parent type 'GObject'
    JS G OBJ: Found method monitor_file in native interface GFile
    JS G OBJ: Defining method monitor_file in prototype for GLocalFile (GObject.Object)
     JS G NS: Found info type FLAGS for 'FileMonitorFlags' in namespace 'Gio'
     JS G NS: Found info type FLAGS for 'FileMonitorFlags' in namespace 'Gio'
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value NONE (fixed from none) 0
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value WATCH_MOUNTS (fixed from watch_mounts) 1
   JS G ENUM: Defining Gio.FileMonitorFlags as 0xa147ca0
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GInotifyFileMonitor' so trying parent type 'GLocalFileMonitor'
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GLocalFileMonitor' so trying parent type 'GFileMonitor'
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GLocalFileMonitor' so trying parent type 'GFileMonitor'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'FileMonitor' in namespace 'Gio'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'FileMonitor' in namespace 'Gio'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class FileMonitor 0xa21d338
    JS G OBJ: Defined class FileMonitor prototype 0xa147cc0 class 0xa21d338 in object 0xa173780
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class GLocalFileMonitor 0xa21d388
    JS G OBJ: Defined class GLocalFileMonitor prototype 0xa147ce0 class 0xa21d388 in object 0xa173780
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class GInotifyFileMonitor 0xa227c20
    JS G OBJ: Defined class GInotifyFileMonitor prototype 0xa147d00 class 0xa227c20 in object 0xa173780
     JS G NS: Found info type FUNCTION for 'file_test' in namespace 'GLib'
     JS G NS: Found info type FLAGS for 'FileTest' in namespace 'GLib'
     JS G NS: Found info type FLAGS for 'FileTest' in namespace 'GLib'
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value IS_REGULAR (fixed from is_regular) 1
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value IS_SYMLINK (fixed from is_symlink) 2
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value IS_DIR (fixed from is_dir) 4
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value IS_EXECUTABLE (fixed from is_executable) 8
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value EXISTS (fixed from exists) 16
   JS G ENUM: Defining GLib.FileTest as 0xa147d60
     JS G NS: Found info type FUNCTION for 'file_get_contents' in namespace 'GLib'
     JS G NS: Found info type FUNCTION for 'file_new_for_uri' in namespace 'Gio'
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GLocalFile' so trying parent type 'GObject'
    JS G OBJ: Found method query_exists in native interface GFile
    JS G OBJ: Defining method query_exists in prototype for GLocalFile (GObject.Object)
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GLocalFile' so trying parent type 'GObject'
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GLocalFile' so trying parent type 'GObject'
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GLocalFile' so trying parent type 'GObject'
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GLocalFile' so trying parent type 'GObject'
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GLocalFile' so trying parent type 'GObject'
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GLocalFile' so trying parent type 'GObject'
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GLocalFile' so trying parent type 'GObject'
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GLocalFile' so trying parent type 'GObject'
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GDaemonFile' so trying parent type 'GObject'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class GDaemonFile 0xa227c70
    JS G OBJ: Defined class GDaemonFile prototype 0xa27b720 class 0xa227c70 in object 0xa16b540
    JS G OBJ: Found method query_exists in native interface GFile
    JS G OBJ: Defining method query_exists in prototype for GDaemonFile (GObject.Object)
    JS G OBJ: No introspection data on 'GDummyFile' so trying parent type 'GObject'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class GDummyFile 0xa227cc0
    JS G OBJ: Defined class GDummyFile prototype 0xa27b780 class 0xa227cc0 in object 0xa16b540
    JS G OBJ: Found method query_exists in native interface GFile
    JS G OBJ: Defining method query_exists in prototype for GDummyFile (GObject.Object)
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Bin' in namespace 'St'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Bin' in namespace 'St'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class Bin 0xa227d10
    JS G OBJ: Defined class Bin prototype 0xa27b900 class 0xa227d10 in object 0xa1738e0
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Label' in namespace 'St'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Label' in namespace 'St'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class Label 0xa227d60
    JS G OBJ: Defined class Label prototype 0xa27b940 class 0xa227d60 in object 0xa1738e0
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Button' in namespace 'St'
     JS G NS: Found info type OBJECT for 'Button' in namespace 'St'
   JS G REPO: Initializing dynamic class Button 0xa227db0
    JS G OBJ: Defined class Button prototype 0xa27b980 class 0xa227db0 in object 0xa1738e0
     JS G NS: Found info type ENUM for 'Align' in namespace 'St'
     JS G NS: Found info type ENUM for 'Align' in namespace 'St'
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value START (fixed from start) 0
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value MIDDLE (fixed from middle) 1
   JS G ENUM: Defining enum value END (fixed from end) 2
   JS G ENUM: Defining St.Align as 0xa27b9e0
    JS G OBJ: Defining method set_child in prototype for StBin (St.Bin)
    JS G OBJ: Found method add_actor in interface 0 implemented by object
    JS G OBJ: Defining method add_actor in prototype for StBoxLayout (St.BoxLayout)
    JS G OBJ: Found method get_child_meta in interface 0 implemented by object
    JS G OBJ: Defining method get_child_meta in prototype for StBoxLayout (St.BoxLayout)
      JS CTX: Script evaluation failed
    JS ERROR: !!!   Exception was: TypeError: meta is null
    JS ERROR: !!!     lineNumber = '18'
    JS ERROR: !!!     fileName = '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/environment.js'
    JS ERROR: !!!     stack = '([object _private_St_Label],[object Object])@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/environment.js:18
([object _private_St_Label],[object Object])@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/environment.js:27
()@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/overview.js:105
InfoBar()@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/overview.js:83
()@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/overview.js:197
Overview()@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/overview.js:189
start()@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/main.js:115
@<main>:1
'
    JS ERROR: !!!     message = 'meta is null'
      JS CTX: Script evaluation succeeded
Window manager warning: Log level 32: Execution of main.js threw exception: TypeError: meta is null
Shell exited with return code 1
mahir@puccaso-dell-bnt:~$ Cannot register the panel shell: there is already one running.

what could be the problem? i dont understand??

#1129

Starks said: Am I the only one who has to do sudo jhbuild build?

I can't say you're the only one, I can just say that I do no have to use sudo, and the instructions on GNOME Live don't mention sudo either.

puccaso said: what could be the problem? i dont understand??

Is this when running or trying to start it? How did you get GNOME Shell? Lucid repo, Ricotz repo, source?

#1130

OK, I have curl, I have jhbuild. I go to gnome live and follow those instructions in a chroot environment to my ISO testing install. i get this message:


root@sam-desktop:/# /bin/bash gnome-shell-build-setup.sh
GNOME 2.26 or newer is required to build GNOME Shell

This is going to a fresh install of A3. I thought we were newer than 2.26.

What do I do? Thanks, Clueless in Montana

#1131

I'm not familiar with chroot, never used it as it's not needed for GNOME Shell. When building from source GNOME Shell resides in the $home folder, so maybe you're making it more complicated than it needs to be and that's why it's not working?

#1132

Thanks for the information! I read that something was released and want to try it out (after I get done with a presentation next week).

#1133

Chroot is just like running in terminal from the OS you are chrooted to (at least I believe so in my noobish way - it sure acts like it).

I checked here and we are on 2.29.91.

Oh well, I,ll try it from there and see what happens.

Thanks a bunch.

#1134

OK, I went over there and ran every thing. It is not something that should be done in chroot anyway as the permissions are going to be wrong if you are running as root. I was also chrooted to my root partition and needed to be to the home partition.

Every thing ran very easily using the script provided on gnome live.

The very last line of the output was;


PATH does not contain /home/ike/bin, it is recommended that you add that.

I do have a vague idea what this means but have no idea how to proceed. I sure hope some kind soul will let me know.

#1135

ranch hand said: OK, I went over there and ran every thing. It is not something that should be done in chroot anyway as the permissions are going to be wrong if you are running as root. I was also chrooted to my root partition and needed to be to the home partition.

Every thing ran very easily using the script provided on gnome live.

The very last line of the output was;


PATH does not contain /home/ike/bin, it is recommended that you add that.

I do have a vague idea what this means but have no idea how to proceed. I sure hope some kind soul will let me know.

Just make a folder called 'bin' in ike's home folder.

#1136

The folder is there. It contains "install-check" and "jhbuild" but I can't give the result of "cat" or "ls" even when I cd to that folder because it is not in the PATH. This causes the error "no such directory or file".

I need to get that in the bash Path and do not know how. Until that is done that file may as well be on the Moon.

#1137

Well I think it's the chrooting thing playing tricks on you. 'Cause this is part of my .profile:


# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
if [ -d "$HOME/bin" ] ; then
    PATH="$HOME/bin:$PATH"
fi

And that file is unmodified (IOW: the default). But of course that only gets loaded if I log on to my account here.

#1138

ranch hand said: The folder is there. It contains "install-check" and "jhbuild" but I can't give the result of "cat" or "ls" even when I cd to that folder because it is not in the PATH. This causes the error "no such directory or file".

I need to get that in the bash Path and do not know how. Until that is done that file may as well be on the Moon.

Same here it only contains those two, though I can "ls" if I "cd" to /bin. You don't need to go to the bin folder to execute "jhbuild build", though. You can do that from your home folder.

#1139

just though id post a couple of screen shots of the changes i have made to gnome shell, after figuring out various bits of css and js, and editing a couple of image files.

i think it would be fairly easy to make theme packs for gnome shell, im not sure how best to implement them, for example for me i copied the original gnome shell theme folder, and over wrote it with the changes ive made, but this means copying a file over as root, so i wondered whether having a theme folder in the users home directory would be better way ? and instead of having to copy one theme folder maybe there could be a system where the gnome shell would have some way to switch between themes ? kind of drag and drop like you can do with the gnome appearances ?

anyway, its still a work in progress (comments are welcome, but if all you can say is " it's s@*t " at least give a reason why you think that, i quite like it) and as its basically a variety of grey shades with gradients, ive only got as far as editing the corner ripple, which i have made into a square style (again various shades of grey)

there are aspects i havent as yet edited , im still wondering if i should leave them alone.

cheers.

#1140

ranch hand said: The folder is there. It contains "install-check" and "jhbuild" but I can't give the result of "cat" or "ls" even when I cd to that folder because it is not in the PATH. This causes the error "no such directory or file".

I need to get that in the bash Path and do not know how. Until that is done that file may as well be on the Moon.

If $HOME is set appropriately in the chroot then you could inline the .profile script like this:


cd /path/to/home/
# reload profile
# you can fix $HOME by issuing: export $HOME="/path/to/home"; 
. .profile
echo "continue working here"
#1141

Reiger said: Well I think it's the chrooting thing playing tricks on you. 'Cause this is part of my .profile:


# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
if [ -d "$HOME/bin" ] ; then
    PATH="$HOME/bin:$PATH"
fi

I did not do this through chroot. I did it logged in to the OS involved.

I just checked the .profile file an that same entry is there. Why is it commented out is both our files? Should it be uncommented? Or should I just ignore the Path message and get on with things?

Also do I need to use "gnome-shell --replace" as with the ppa version or some other command.

I will be going back over there when todays boinc stuff "reports".

#1142

Uhm, there's nothing commented-out there? It's piece of bash script which checks if the folder $HOME/bin exists, and if so adds it to the PATH ($PATH).

I don't know, what commands you should be using to kickstart GS: I don't use it myself.

#1143

ranch hand said: I did not do this through chroot. I did it logged in to the OS involved.

I just checked the .profile file an that same entry is there. Why is it commented out is both our files? Should it be uncommented? Or should I just ignore the Path message and get on with things?

Also do I need to use "gnome-shell --replace" as with the ppa version or some other command.

I will be going back over there when todays boinc stuff "reports".

Are you building from source? Yes you need gnome-shell --replace, look in the first post

#1144

Looks like we might get some new mock-ups and design ideas. At the GNOME UX Hackfest they spent some time going over the "desktop" for GNOME.

The blog post on Planet GNOME about it sadly is a bit very general it (and sounds like they had a LOT of coffee). But from the tone of it they seem to have come up with some pretty nice ideas. Guess we'll know when some mockups are up. In the end they might have only decided to change to default color in the shell from black to pink.

Edit Btw, since we are going at already 115 pages here, maybe we should start a new thread to make it a bit cleaner again or perhaps even split it in two threads. One for the general discussion, views, updates and criticism of the shell; and one for technical problems like build issues.

#1145

Merk42 said: Are you building from source? Yes you need gnome-shell --replace, look in the first post

I followed the paths around the gnome site and got to;

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell#building

Which is basically a script that does the building and, as it turns out, gets all the support packages you need too.

I am headed over there directly to find out what, if anything, I actually have installed on there.

Thanks for the answer, I figured that would do it. It has always been sufficient to freeze the OS in the past.

I new kernel and the latest edgers stuff seem to be more stable with effects. I couldn't bring myself to get back into compiz to check it out real well but it just feels better.

I figure that trying it with GS, something I actually want to see is a better way to go.

There was a lot of stuff installed and I have trouble believing it was all to support building GS. Could be that some of the stuff the script brought in helps support GS.

#1146

gnome shell vs...

#1147

techno-mole said: just though id post a couple of screen shots of the changes i have made to gnome shell, after figuring out various bits of css and js, and editing a couple of image files.

i think it would be fairly easy to make theme packs for gnome shell, im not sure how best to implement them, for example for me i copied the original gnome shell theme folder, and over wrote it with the changes ive made, but this means copying a file over as root, so i wondered whether having a theme folder in the users home directory would be better way ? and instead of having to copy one theme folder maybe there could be a system where the gnome shell would have some way to switch between themes ? kind of drag and drop like you can do with the gnome appearances ?

anyway, its still a work in progress (comments are welcome, but if all you can say is " it's s@*t " at least give a reason why you think that, i quite like it) and as its basically a variety of grey shades with gradients, ive only got as far as editing the corner ripple, which i have made into a square style (again various shades of grey)

there are aspects i havent as yet edited , im still wondering if i should leave them alone.

cheers.

It looks very similar to the default to me, I really want to see someone make a lighter one. I liked the look of your expanded applications menu a lot more than the default though, it fits in with the rest a lot better.

Also, do you have a Pokemon obsession?

#1148

d3v1150m471c said: gnome shell vs...

What is this???

#1149

OlyPerson said: What is this???

Did you notice that that screenshot was named "mykde.jpg"?

#1150

d3v1150m471c said: gnome shell vs...

Sorry I don't like it, to me it looks like some half baked Buck Rogers in the 25th Century thingy.

#1151

I have no idea what I have over there. What ever it is does not crash the system but that is because there is nothing there except a whole bunch of new files.

Most of them are empty. There is nothing to start.

How the devil do I get that?

I did by the way read the first post but the directions I followed were the ones on the gnome live link in my last post. Look pretty much the same to me but I obviously did not get the expected result.

#1152

k3lt01 said: Sorry I don't like it, to me it looks like some half baked Buck Rogers in the 25th Century thingy.

+1 Just what I thought when I saw it. I thought it looked like the really bad Sci Fi movies I really loved from the 50s. Space ship controls made out of used stoves and toasters.

Hey its his box, he likes it. It is fine with me. Looks like a lot of effort too.

#1153

ranch hand said: I have no idea what I have over there. What ever it is does not crash the system but that is because there is nothing there except a whole bunch of new files.

Most of them are empty. There is nothing to start.

How the devil do I get that?

I did by the way read the first post but the directions I followed were the ones on the gnome live link in my last post. Look pretty much the same to me but I obviously did not get the expected result.

Did you successfully build it? What happens when you try to run it?

#1154

Merk42 said: Did you successfully build it?

What happens when you try to run it? A>having never done anything like that I really do not know. B>nothing

I am back over on the chosen victim and going to go through it again. Can't hurt.

#1155

ranch hand said: Hey its his box, he likes it. It is fine with me. Looks like a lot of effort too.I agree the effort that went into it deserves recognition. He did, or someone did anyway, a good job, however it just doesn't float my boat.

#1156

Ibidem said: Did you notice that that screenshot was named "mykde.jpg"?

I'll be honest with you, I read that as "Myk de" as in myk from de=Germany. I think because I was chatting in German at the time. I like it though.

#1157

ranch hand said: A>having never done anything like that I really do not know.

B>nothing

I am back over on the chosen victim and going to go through it again. Can't hurt.

A>When you get to the step to type jhbuild build does it throw a bunch of code and eventually bring you back to a prompt, or does it stop as some sort of error? B>IF A hasn't happened that's one thing, else it should give some sort of terminal output for why it didn't happen.

#1158

OK, things looked fine to me last time but got this same message when I ran "gnome-shell replace". However, there was a lot more activity this time. Here are the last few lines of output and the next command;


/usr/bin/install -c -m 644 gnome-shell.1 '/home/ike/gnome-shell/install/share/man/man1'
make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/ike/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/man'
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/ike/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/man'
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/ike/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell'
make[2]: Entering directory `/home/ike/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell'
make[2]: Nothing to be done for `install-exec-am'.
make[2]: Nothing to be done for `install-data-am'.
make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/ike/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell'
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/ike/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell'
*** success *** [7/7]
ike@ike-desktop:~$ gnome-shell --replace
The program 'gnome-shell' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
sudo apt-get install gnome-shell
ike@ike-desktop:~$ 

I really could not comprehend what was going on but I did try to follow it. The only thing I could see that didn't look like it went right was this;


Please add the files
  codeset.m4 gettext.m4 glibc21.m4 iconv.m4 isc-posix.m4 lcmessage.m4
  progtest.m4
from the /aclocal directory to your autoconf macro directory
or directly to your aclocal.m4 file.
You will also need config.guess and config.sub, which you can get from
ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/config/.

I did not do anything about this because I could not find "codeset.m4 gettext.m4 glibc21.m4 iconv.m4 isc-posix.m4 lcmessage.m4 progtest.m4. The only thing in that is in that folder (aclocal) is "gconf-2.m4" and "introspection.m4".

As this was the case I ignored the "You will also need config.guess and config.sub, which you can get from ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/config/.

This is from the gedit file on my desktop titled GS-wtf.

All I can say is wtf?

#1159

Merk42 said: A>When you get to the step to type jhbuild build does it throw a bunch of code and eventually bring you back to a prompt, or does it stop as some sort of error?

B>IF A hasn't happened that's one thing, else it should give some sort of terminal output for why it didn't happen. You posted this while I was typing.

I hope the above answers your questions.

#1160

From what I've skimmed through above, it's a long thread, I hope that gnome shell will be an option not a compulsory default. I have several reasons for saying this. The current GNOME is an easy environment which people who are not tech minded can find their way around whilst at the same time there is nothing that one can't do in it if one wishes. I know several new converts to Linux who were won over by gnomes simplicity and, how do I phrase this, are at the stage in life where learning new things is difficult and off putting. Though it is mostly, not all, eye candy compiz has done much to win over the younger end of the market, people even post screen captures on youtube to show how much cooler their desktops are than the commercial alternatives.

This is not a flame, good luck to the gnome shell team and more power to your elbow. There are at least a couple of dozen GUI's and as far as I'm concerned the more the merrier. Just please Ubuntu don't make it the default, given a few hours and some reading up I can switch my GUI, most users, such as the huge crowd of application only users fleeing the unsupported XP, can't. Changing the GUI just as Ubuntu is entering the mainstream will severely dampen it's popularity. In fact as a general principle radical overhauls are only a good idea if they are optional. Many people just want to use their computers for business and recreation and are only interested in applications. They learn what security they are forced to learn and no more. Years of bugs, viruses and various computer problems which have lost valuable data, work and time have conditioned them out of any enthusiasm for the inner workings of operating systems. Most non-geeks actually loath compulsory changes as much as buggy releases because they simply want to get on with the things they want to do. I suspect the majority of Ubuntu users are non-geeks and as such lots of them will have what amounts to a phobia of all the things geeks love.

IMO Extra option = great compulsory = very bad

#1161

houseworkshy As a guy that is trying to get GS to run on a year old box and having some problems I agree with you.

I do not know if I like it or not, haven't been able to get it up yet. I like the one we have now a lot (without compiz). Change is something most folks like to sneak up on, not have it jump out at them.

This does look like a big change.

#1162

OlyPerson said: What is this???

definitely kde (kdesnapshot and all) but i don't like it, and i'm a big fan of kde. I agree it looks like a buck rogers crap attack

here is default lucid kubuntu w/kde 4.4, much cleaner and nicer than he shows. I like it enough to keep the default look, at least for now

as for gnomeshell? I'm fine with it being an option, but i think it should have been called something else such as javashell (read that how you want lol)

#1163

OlyPerson said: It looks very similar to the default to me, I really want to see someone make a lighter one. I liked the look of your expanded applications menu a lot more than the default though, it fits in with the rest a lot better.

Also, do you have a Pokemon obsession?

my next one will be a lighter theme, the Pokemon stuff was for my son, he loves Pokemon and we were getting loads of pictures to make a bookmark :-)

now i understand a little more of what does what it shouldn't take too long to make another theme.

#1164

ranch hand said:

* success * [7/7] this means build was fine.

ike@ike-desktop:~$ gnome-shell --replace

this can’t work as bash can’t devine the path to the shell. you have to change to the directory first:

~$ cd gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src

then you call the gnome-shell which is in this direcory and make it replace metacity:

$ ./gnome-shell --replace

cheers!

#1165

McDuff said: this means build was fine.

this can’t work as bash can’t devine the path to the shell. you have to change to the directory first:

~$ cd gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src
$ ./gnome-shell --replace

Oh Bugger. They said something about that on the gnome live page. I even tried it on my first attempt that didn't work. So, obviously, the thing to do is forget it.

I am a moron. But I am good at it.

Thank you very much. I am sure that will do it. I will try it tomorrow when I am back on that drive.

I better hit the hay. Maybe with some sleep I will develope the ability to think.

#1166

So.. This is what I did. Just to make it simple. And you can just hit ctrl+c to stop gnome shell

#1167

Mmm, I just updated to the latest Gnome-shell. Is it just me or is it a bit slower. More laggish?

#1168

okay this is by no means finished, but in response to a post here is the start of a lighter gnome shell theme, like i said i havent finished it, icons need sorting etc, and there some polishing to be done, again any comment are welcome.

I have also figured out how to change the text colour of the search input box in the over view mode, the colours can be changed by editing a couple of lines in the dash.js file, near to the top you can see search related lines of code. and also if you have changed the colours but found that the recent items text is in a different colour try adding this ``` .dash-recent-docs-item { color: #000000; }


screenshots attached.
#1169

Wow. I am unemployed as my boss on the ranch up and died on me. She would have just loved the looks of that. Her truck was purple. Her curtains were purple. Just loved purple.

Looks pretty nice.

#1170

omg, did you get gnome-do to work? how?

#1171

Well it is tomorrow and here I am trying to get this to work again. No go.

I think I have to give up on it. I had FF up so I can still do this.

I saved the message again but it is the old song and dance about the irq not working right and some stuff about mutter not working right. Can't get to it.

Nothing works. Can't get a command line. Wallpaper at full screen. No panel. Will quit this from the quit command in the menu (I assume as the menu does open). Will try to get metacity back through tty other wise just reboot again.

Bummer.

#1172

ranch hand said: Well it is tomorrow and here I am trying to get this to work again. No go.

I think I have to give up on it. I had FF up so I can still do this.

I saved the message again but it is the old song and dance about the irq not working right and some stuff about mutter not working right. Can't get to it.

Nothing works. Can't get a command line. Wallpaper at full screen. No panel. Will quit this from the quit command in the menu (I assume as the menu does open). Will try to get metacity back through tty other wise just reboot again.

Bummer. What specific error messages are you getting when you run``` cd ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src ./gnome-shell --replace

#1173

ranch hand said: Well it is tomorrow and here I am trying to get this to work again. No go.

I think I have to give up on it. I had FF up so I can still do this.

I saved the message again but it is the old song and dance about the irq not working right and some stuff about mutter not working right. Can't get to it.

Nothing works. Can't get a command line. Wallpaper at full screen. No panel. Will quit this from the quit command in the menu (I assume as the menu does open). Will try to get metacity back through tty other wise just reboot again.

Bummer. Try enabling Ctrl+alt+backspace, saves reboot time ;)

And on more thing, probably has been asked already, have you disabled all eyecandy apps before going to shell? Like: Compiz, Nitrogen, Emerald, beryl, etc

#1174

Merk42 said: What specific error messages are you getting when you run```

cd ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src ./gnome-shell --replace

This is it;

ike@ike-desktop:~$ cd ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src ike@ike-desktop:~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src$ ./gnome-shell --replace do_wait: drmWaitVBlank returned -1, IRQs don't seem to be working correctly. Try adjusting the vblank_mode configuration parameter. do_wait: drmWaitVBlank returned -1, IRQs don't seem to be working correctly. Try adjusting the vblank_mode configuration parameter. JS LOG: GNOME Shell started at Thu Feb 25 2010 10:05:42 GMT-0700 (MST)

This is the same thing I was getting with the ppa version.
#1175

icyzer said: Try enabling Ctrl+alt+backspace, saves reboot time ;)

And on more thing, probably has been asked already, have you disabled all eyecandy apps before going to shell? Like: Compiz, Nitrogen, Emerald, beryl, etc The only key combo that works is Ctrl+Alt+F2 (F1, F3...F6 do not).

I had compiz running before reinstalling for ISO testing. Do not like it. I really know nothing about that stuff at all as it is just too irritating and ugly to stand.

What is it that I need to do to disable it? I will be over there again this evening and try anything that will maybe get this going.

#1176

icyzer said: omg, did you get gnome-do to work? how?

its always worked for me ? the only niggle is that now and then it wont auto start like its set to, but clicking the gnome do icon starts it up fine.

all i did was install it from synaptic.

i take it, its not working well for you ?

#1177

ranch hand said: The only key combo that works is Ctrl+Alt+F2 (F1, F3...F6 do not).

I had compiz running before reinstalling for ISO testing. Do not like it. I really know nothing about that stuff at all as it is just too irritating and ugly to stand.

What is it that I need to do to disable it? I will be over there again this evening and try anything that will maybe get this going. Mmm, I see you got 8.04. Dunno whether you can enable Ctrl+alt+bckspace there, it's in keyboard preferences. Go to Layout and then Layout options. There should be the option to enable 'Keysequence to restart X-server'. It really comes in handy when testing new programs.

It doesn sound like you use any eyecandy programs then ;) Compiz should be easy to disable by going to appearance and making sure that Visual effects is set to 'none'

techno-mole said: its always worked for me ? the only niggle is that now and then it wont auto start like its set to, but clicking the gnome do icon starts it up fine.

all i did was install it from synaptic.

i take it, its not working well for you ? It isn't :P Not such a big deal anyway :P

#1178

icyzer said: Mmm, I see you got 8.04. Dunno whether you can enable Ctrl+alt+bckspace there, it's in keyboard preferences. Go to Layout and then Layout options. There should be the option to enable 'Keysequence to restart X-server'. It really comes in handy when testing new programs.

It doesn sound like you use any eyecandy programs then ;) Compiz should be easy to disable by going to appearance and making sure that Visual effects is set to 'none'

It isn't :P Not such a big deal anyway :P I am on my test platform during the day and running 10.04 (7 variations). I have one that I stay on most of the day that is running boinc hard to keep the cpus at 99 to 100% all the time.

8.04 is only used for very secure business. I like it but it is not as much fun as 10.04 or 9.04 or even 9.10, all of which are on here. All set at "none" by the way.

The OS in question does have effects set at normal. I will try it at none but I thought that GS would not work at that setting.

#1179

@ranch hand i had to switch desktop effects to none before gnome shell would work for me as well, just got to appearance--> visual effects and select none.

PS - if anyone is interested i have attached the 2 css files ive been messing about with to create different looks for gnome shell.

#1180

Thanks for the files!

#1181

Well I got the bugger up and then dropped it accidentally just as I was collecting some information. Must have been on for 5 minutes.

My head is splitting and I am having trouble seeing clearly. The bouncing around of the desktop, combined with the ghastly black, is VERY painful. I have not had a migraine in years but this is headed that way.

I am really getting to like the Buck Rodgers theme. Beats this all hollow.

No matter where I put things they all seem to end up on one workspace. This is not good for me at all. I have several things going on all the time and have related things on a work space. I do not think that this (as I have run it so far) is good at all. 15 to 20 things to wade through on a workspace is not productive anywhere but looks completely unmanagable on here.

Atl-tab does help but I need better behavior than this. I hope they are working on that.

I have the font set where I like it (had to reboot to get back to this) but I can not read what I am writting. Have to go. the 6 extra strength excedrin i took may help.

#1182

Try dragging the application icons to the workspace you want them to run on :)

#1183

First I have to do something about the color. My left eye is still twitching. That sucker HURTS to look at.

There could be a way of doing that but I was pretty out of it when I had to leave.

I checked in to see about those themes from techno-mole. Hopefully they will not make me ill and I can work with this thing to learn how to use it.

#1184

techno-mole said: @ranch hand i had to switch desktop effects to none before gnome shell would work for me as well, just got to appearance--> visual effects and select none.

PS - if anyone is interested i have attached the 2 css files ive been messing about with to create different looks for gnome shell. I would be truly thankful if you would tell me exactly what to do with the contents of these because I can only really take the bugger for a a couple minute as it is now.

If this is just a case of plugging it in somewhere, I can do that from here and not have to look at it.

That said I need to figure out how you get it to start as at boot up. That is the only OS that will run it (so far) because of the xorg.edgers stuff. I do not spend much time there so I should be able to fool with it a few minutes at a time to make sure the updates haven't screwed some thing (that is the only purpose of that OS besides ISO testing - check the updates before hurting the install I actually use).

If I can lower the pain involved I may learn to use it.

#1185

okay, if you mean how to auto start gnome shell, thats easy.

now if you have built from source you will have to cd to a folder in your home directory to start gnome shell ? is there file that starts it ?

if this is the case i may not be able to help, but try this.

go to system preferences --> start up applications --> and click add, give it a name eg - gnome-shell and for the command you can browse to where the start script is and select it, however if you have built from source you might have to make script that runs the commands that you have to run in a terminal

cd ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src
./gnome-shell --replace

i dont know if something like this would work ?

open gedit (or text editor of your choice) and add the following (i cant say whether this will work)

#!/bin/sh
./gnome-shell --replace

now save it as what ever eg - gnome-shell start

move that file to the directory - /gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src if thats where you have been running it from, next you need to right click on the file and select properties, the select permissions and tick the box that allows it to be run as a program.

now go back to the start up applications and in the command field delete anything thats there and browse to where you just put that script and then click add, and it should appear some where in the start up menu.

and see if that works ? i have no idea whether it will, and you probably have a better idea than me on how to make a script.

as for the files ive posted they are theme files, and they can be put into the themes file of gnome shell, its just a matter of copying the css file thats in the archive over to gnome-shell/themes where ever that file resides (most likely in your home directory if you built from source, i think ?) if you used the ppa then it will be here - /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme (you will need to be root to copy the file) i would go for the darker theme, because its more complete, and should display okay, i am working on a blue one, thats kind of marine colours, but its not ready yet, i will upload it when it is, if you prefer blue :-)

hopefully i have been of some help ?

#1186

techno-mole Thanks a lot.

I really do not like dark themes that much. They all seem to hurt to look at although I have never experienced the torture that the GS look gives me.

I will have to look into the color codes to find one for a color i like if I can get my head around this GS stuff. Until the advent of the current theme we are using as default I have never really objected to the colors in Ubuntu. Easy to change that (currently anyway). I have some that are green (forest) that I like too.

I try to avoid blue for some reason, beats me because I normally like the color. Maybe too much MS.

Anyway, if I can get the color codes I can go in from here and change that stuff. It is, indeed in the home folder.

I wish there was a real menu in GS. I am not an icon kind of guy. I use them on the panels now but at least they are decently small. Text would be smaller than the icons they are using in GS. Those are huge. 25% of that size would be plenty.

#1187

I just checked in nautilus and I can't find any theme or themes folder at all in /gnome-shell or /gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell. Or anywhere else in that directory at all.

There is an empty .themes folder in /home but that is normally there (it is populated in the install I am on as several were added to the respin of 9.04 I upgraded from).

I thought maybe I should check in /usr/share but there is no /gnome-shell there.

I am stumped unless it would work to just add the folder. I have no idea where the default lives though to get rid of it (or even to try just modifying its ghastly looks).

I am, frankly, scared to use it without doing something about the looks of it. My left eye has not stopped twitching yet from the few minutes I was on it before.

#1188

ranch hand said: I just checked in nautilus and I can't find any theme or themes folder at all in /gnome-shell or /gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell. Or anywhere else in that directory at all.

There is an empty .themes folder in /home but that is normally there (it is populated in the install I am on as several were added to the respin of 9.04 I upgraded from).

I thought maybe I should check in /usr/share but there is no /gnome-shell there.

Fire up the terminal and do: ``` locate gnome-shell.css

#1189

HalfEmptyHero said: Fire up the terminal and do: ```

locate gnome-shell.css

 I am not over there right now but I did find such a file in /gnome-shell/install/share/gnome-shell/theme, renamed the file, plugged the one from the techno-mole and ran "update-initramfs -u" before going over there  this last time.  It made no difference.

This did not surprise me seeing that it is in the install folder but I thought I would give it a whack.

I will try it again tomorrow but I think that is all I will get.

I need to be back up in a few hours to cut wood before the ground thaws into mud so I have got to get.

I'll let you know how it turns out tomorrow.
#1190

I actually couldn't wait. I popped over here on my way to stable OS land and ran it again and there it was in /gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/data/theme just incase anyone else find the default to be literally sickening.

Purple is not a big favorite with me. Compared to the default I really love it, it is just absolutely great.

I have been here for minutes and have not developed a headache nor is my eye twitching.

Thanks a bunch. Do not know why it did not come up before but it may have and I was just to far out of it to comprehend.

Now I can fool with this and see it I like it or not.

#1191

glad i could be of some help, if you know some css then making the theme to your liking is pretty easy to be honest, the css for the purple one has more comments in it, so its bit easier to see what will be changed, ive attached the blue one to this, incase you want to have a go, and also these are the 2 sites ive been using for the colour codes.

http://html-color-codes.info/

http://www.drpeterjones.com/colorcalc/


they may be of some use to you, the icon sizes i think can be adjusted as well, not sure though as it didnt occur to me to make them smaller.
#1192

@ techno-mole. That blue one is pretty good, just about my fav colour.

#1193

i have attached the finished theme, complete with icons and the dash.js file that has the controls for the search feature in over view mode.

all you need to do is copy the theme file to where ever your theme folder for gnome shell is (make a back up first as you might want to go back to the default theme)

the dash.js file is optional, i made changes to this to make the text show up more, but if you are okay with it then leave this file,

Note ! there may be differences between this file and your dash.js, apart from the text colour, i install gnome shell from the ppa, versions built from source may be different, so its up to you, make backups and this way you can restore the files easily enough.

I should have mentioned that the dash.js file needs to go into the ui folder, so for me thats - /usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui

#1194

Well the new mockups & ideas for GNOME 3 and the shell have been posted.

Seems like quite the change from the current shell iteration. Including things like a global menu and another pop-up bar at the bottom of the screen.

More can be found here: http://blogs.gnome.org/seth/2010/02/26/let-the-wild-rumpus-begin/

#1195

bash said: Well the new mockups & ideas for GNOME 3 and the shell have been posted.

Seems like quite the change from the current shell iteration. Including things like a global menu and another pop-up bar at the bottom of the screen.

More can be found here: http://blogs.gnome.org/seth/2010/02/26/let-the-wild-rumpus-begin/

Keep in mind that these are fresh, uncut ideas from the recent UX Hackfest; they'll keep evolving, and many will likely not be finalized.

#1196

techno-mole said: glad i could be of some help, if you know some css then making the theme to your liking is pretty easy to be honest, the css for the purple one has more comments in it, so its bit easier to see what will be changed, ive attached the blue one to this, incase you want to have a go, and also these are the 2 sites ive been using for the colour codes.

http://html-color-codes.info/

http://www.drpeterjones.com/colorcalc/

I actually never heard of css before.  I still think that I can learn some about it though by fooling with some of these files and reading them and about them.

Thanks for the address'.  I looked some up last night that I will add these to.  I think that will round out some beginning education on this.

Another theme with some differences will help with education too.  You have been busy.

Thanks.
#1197

if you dont know about css have a look here - ``` http://w3schools.com/css/default.asp


they are good, and they have a load of easy to follow tutorials.

im currently planning 2 versions of gnome shell themes based on the colour red, one will be similar to the others, use of gradients etc and the other with be a flat version, eg - no gradients.

im also planning to do a transparent type theme, not completely transparent though, kind of like a frosted window effect.

I meant to mention this earlier but, if you update gnome shell, I assume it will be the same for source builds and the ppa installation it will overwrite the current theme and you will be back to black (if thats still the default) just follow the steps to replace the theme and then press alt + f2 and type restart and then hit enter, it should restart gnome shell
#1198

bash said: Well the new mockups & ideas for GNOME 3 and the shell have been posted.

Seems like quite the change from the current shell iteration. Including things like a global menu and another pop-up bar at the bottom of the screen.

More can be found here: http://blogs.gnome.org/seth/2010/02/26/let-the-wild-rumpus-begin/

That seems to be a huge amount of changes, I don't think they'll be able to deliver by September. I'm wondering when we'll begin seeing some of what's on there in our setups?

I'm not even sure exactly what changes there will be, there just seem to be so many that I can't keep track of it... are there any other mockups available?

#1199

Considering the impending arrival of BTRFS and the move to file management using Zeitgiest, are the shell developers taking a proactive approach to keeping track of btrfs and how its features can be optimally used within the shell ? I thinking of Opensolaris and its 'one click' fs snapshots thanks to ZFS. I'm also thinking of the "data loss" early in the ext4 release days.

#1200

OlyPerson said: That seems to be a huge amount of changes, I don't think they'll be able to deliver by September. I'm wondering when we'll begin seeing some of what's on there in our setups?

I'm not even sure exactly what changes there will be, there just seem to be so many that I can't keep track of it... are there any other mockups available?

Some of the ideas are rather "blue sky", but then they don't have to be in by 3.0. They can be deferred to future releases.

#1201

Yes I know these are early mockups and likely to change

So instead of giving a task switcher like a lot of people want, they put in [s]crap[/s] pooper?

#1202

interesting idea, but they really need to change the name of it, that sems to be a feature of open source, odd names eg - the gimp

i use gimp to edit my photographs, but on odd occasions when i say " I use The G.I.M.P " eyebrows have been raised, and now we have pooper ?

the other day I was looking at an application called PLoP its a boot utility type thing (lets you boot from usb even if your bios doesnt support it, and other stuff)

I rest my case, with a name like pooper that would be reason enough for some not to use gnome shell.

#1203

techno-mole said: interesting idea, but they really need to change the name of it, that sems to be a feature of open source, odd names eg - the gimp

i use gimp to edit my photographs, but on odd occasions when i say " I use The G.I.M.P " eyebrows have been raised, and now we have pooper ?

the other day I was looking at an application called PLoP its a boot utility type thing (lets you boot from usb even if your bios doesnt support it, and other stuff)

I rest my case, with a name like pooper that would be reason enough for some not to use gnome shell.

So if you don't want to photo edit something at the moment you'd say... "I stuck the GIMP in the pooper"

#1204

techno-mole said: if you dont know about css have a look here - ```

http://w3schools.com/css/default.asp


im currently planning 2 versions of gnome shell themes based on the colour red, one will be similar to the others, use of gradients etc and the other with be a flat version, eg - no gradients.

im also planning to do a transparent type theme, not completely transparent though, kind of like a frosted window effect.

I meant to mention this earlier but, if you update gnome shell, I assume it will be the same for source builds and the ppa installation it will overwrite the current theme and you will be back to black (if thats still the default) just follow the steps to replace the theme and then press alt + f2 and type restart and then hit enter, it should restart gnome shell
Thanks once again.  Looks like a great link.

New themes sound interesting.

I got used to having a backup of images for xsplash in 9.10-testing so that I could fix the thing  right off after an update reverted things to the default (that is the image that is still used for your gdm login screen from /usr/share/images/xsplash).  I like the grub screen menu background, xsplash or plymouth background and my wallpaper to match.

I think I can handle that and I have the files here on my main daytime OS anyway so that I can study while still running boinc.  I can also do most of the file swapping around frome here and just go and play with GS over there without having to worry about doing anything to it while there.
#1205

Merk42 said: So if you don't want to photo edit something at the moment you'd say...

"I stuck the GIMP in the pooper" +1 Just for that reason I think they should stick with pooper or, better yet, change it to the one you crossed out (crapper).

Yes, I am aware that I should grow up. Not gonna do it.

#1206

Is anybody having issues with Thunderbird? Whenever I open Thunderbird and click on a message, it just crashes. But only in Gnome Shell.

For what it's worth, I'm running dual screen.

#1207

I am wondering how to drag and drop between programs in the Shell. When using Gnome2 you can drag to a hidden program by hovering over it's icon.

#1208

NightwishFan said: I am wondering how to drag and drop between programs in the Shell. When using Gnome2 you can drag to a hidden program by hovering over it's icon.

Don't have the windows maximized. But I see your point.

#1209

NightwishFan said: I am wondering how to drag and drop between programs in the Shell. When using Gnome2 you can drag to a hidden program by hovering over it's icon.

maybe with a dock it's possible? It should be added though. Send an email to the mailinglist?

#1210

This is solely my personal taste and first visual impression. I find the print screens (the ones with the menus) as ugly and as bloated of any average Mac and Windows desktop put together. It gets close to the Windoz clone on Linux, I mean kkkklone, KDE.

Simplicity was my first impression using GNOME 2.26. I was expecting "less but better" for the future releases. Is Gnome shell different from GNOME?

Edit, I got my answer: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Screenshots - indeed, completely bloated and ugly for my taste. No, no way. It makes me think of this Vista crap or OS X. A total dislike.

#1211

Anyone else getting this error when trying to upgrade today:


E: /var/cache/apt/archives/gir1.0-mutter-2.29_2.29.0+git20100226-0ubuntu1~10.04~ricotz1_i386.deb: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/mutter/Meta-2.29.typelib', which is also in package gir1.0-mutter-2.28 0
#1212

thats your taste, and other people will prefer themes done in a variety of ways, from what i can gather eventually gnome shell will be more adaptable than it is now, the themes i made are mainly to highlight that there is a lot that you can do with it.

anyway here is another theme, i called heat for some reason, with a couple of screen shots, dont ask me what happened to the screenshot, the theme doesnt do that to your menus, honest :-)

PS - in my opinion gnome shell is not a clone of kde, and i also think its a good idea, but thats my opinion and people are entitled to have their own views on gnome shell.

#1213

techno-mole said: ...in my opinion gnome shell is not a clone of kde, and i also think its a good idea, but thats my opinion and people are entitled to have their own views on gnome shell.

Well said. So far, I'm still very undecided on GnomeShell, but it does have a few compelling features. The learning curve is too much for me to give it a spin until I have more time and I'm not crazy about losing support for Compiz.

#1214

moore.bryan said: Anyone else getting this error when trying to upgrade today:


E: /var/cache/apt/archives/gir1.0-mutter-2.29_2.29.0+git20100226-0ubuntu1~10.04~ricotz1_i386.deb: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/mutter/Meta-2.29.typelib', which is also in package gir1.0-mutter-2.28 0

Yup. Can't update some of packages because of that.

OK, I disabled ricotz PPA, purged unnecessary packages, those that are needed by other packages were reverted to Lucid's offical repo's version. Then I enabled repo again, selected to install gnome-shell, synaptic asked to install few other packages and it works.

Oh yeah, I installed the clutter libs. Try removing gir 1.0-mutter-2.28, and install 2.29 - seems to solve the problem.

#1215

Thanks b3t0n... I ended up purging gnome-shell, all it's dependencies, and then reinstalled; everything's fine now.

#1216

techno-mole how do u install your theme. Which is pretty neat by the way

#1217

I've been having this issue now for a while: gnome-power-manager's tray icon will randomly disappear, leaving it's space in the tray blank, and reappear *next* to the space it previously vacated. The next time it blanks-out, it leaves a *second* blank space. That process continues until there are blank spaces to the middle of the panel.

WTF?

Oh, and to further complicate the matters, this *is not* a problem running Gnome-Shell in my Fedora 12 install...

#1218

Merk42 said: I can't say you're the only one, I can just say that I do no have to use sudo, and the instructions on GNOME Live don't mention sudo either.

Is this when running or trying to start it? How did you get GNOME Shell? Lucid repo, Ricotz repo, source?

i got it from Ricotz..

what do u have to do?

#1219

moore.bryan said: Anyone else getting this error when trying to upgrade today:


E: /var/cache/apt/archives/gir1.0-mutter-2.29_2.29.0+git20100226-0ubuntu1~10.04~ricotz1_i386.deb: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/mutter/Meta-2.29.typelib', which is also in package gir1.0-mutter-2.28 0

Haven't had that particular error myself, but what you can do is:

sudo dpkg -i --force-overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/gir1.0-mutter-2.29_2.29.0+git20100226-0ubuntu1~10.04~ricotz1_i386.deb
#1220

lime4x4 said: techno-mole how do u install your theme. Which is pretty neat by the way

it depends on how you installed gnome shell, if you installed from the ppa on launchpad then you should have a folder in --> /usr/share/gnome-shell called theme, this is where the css and image files are that control colours etc.

the best thing to do is save a copy of that folder (the whole thing) before copying the theme from the archive i posted.

basically once you have backed up that folder you need to extract the archive (i knew i should have included a how to, note to self) then copy its contents over to /usr/share-gnome-shell/theme the esiest way to do this is open terminal and type ``` sudo nautilus


navigate to you home folder (or where ever you extracted the theme, and copy the contents of the folder then browse to /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme and paste the copied files.

if you installed from source you need to locate the theme folder, and to be honest im not sure where it will be (maybe so one can help ?) i think theres a post by ranch hand that says where the theme folder might be (its a couple of pages back in this thread)

now in the latest theme (the heat one) there is also a file called " dash.js " this file has the controls for the search field in the over view mode, i have changed the colouring of it to match the theme, you will also need to back this file up first before replacing it with mine.

Things to note - if you built from source then some of the files may be different to mine, i used the ppa to install.
and everytime you update gnome shell the theme will revert back to the default black theme, so you will have to go through this lot again.

if you get stuck i should be able to help.

and if you know how to write style sheets for websites then you can make your own themes, as its a css file that controls the bulk of how gnome shell looks.
#1221

Theme folder location in compiled GS;

/home/<user>/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/data

I am not real successful at changing the colors but I have really made them "different" and it is fun.

Can't say I have gotten to like GS all that much, but it is usable now that it doesn't try to ugly me to death (or at least to need to take a bottle of asprin and lay down in a dark room and ride out the migraine).

With a decent way to switch workstations and a decent way to get apps it would work fine I guess. Definitely takes some getting use to and I admit to not spending enough time with it.

Like a fool I tried recompiling nautilus here on my main testing OS and failed. Luckily it just didn't work at all so nothing was hurt except my feelings.

I think I will try it again on the ISO install so I can use GS for something concrete. Give me a little time with it and see what I can screw up while getting to know GS a little better.

At least I can see it now and with the edgers stuff it seems to work like it should. Never did get compiz to look like the screen shots say it should eve nwit hthe edgers stuff so GS should work on my hardware when released with no problem.

That was my main concern as I have no intention of changing my hardware until this box pretty much dies on me. I like it. I like Ubuntu. At least my box will work with GS. I may not get to like it but at least I have the choice.

EDIT

Another round of heart felt thanks is due to all who helped me blunder through this experience. You all can get a beer (or beverage of choice) in Broadus MT anytime. Probably even feed you.

#1222

im glad we have helped, thats why i like ubuntu, the community in general is great and will help where they can (helped me out no end)

im glad you are having a mess around with the css, i havent kept up to date with what css can do so im having to re-learn it as well, and i originally learned by playing around with bits of html and css.

im trying to add more comprehensive comments to the css, so that its easier to find the bits you want to edit.

#1223

With enough comments there would little excuse for folks that are not scared of making thing look funny not to try and make it look the way they like.

Now if we just had a few extra tools to make it work the the way we like it would be a pretty nice thing.

I think we need the script for the "Buck Rodgers" special. It would be a great replacement for the default too.

That default is nasty to deal with. I have never had an experience like that in my life.

I have never liked dark themes but that is just mainly due to personal taste and they due strain my eyes a very little bit more. Not that one, it was just out to kill me. I would really like to know what it was that triggered my response. Very spooky.

#1224

i must admit i dont much like the default theme, if i was going for dark i would most likely use something like the grey theme i did or similar, im actually using the blue theme i made (the one i called marine) which i wouldnt normally go for, not a blue fan, but its growing on me. maybe they stuck with a dark theme because there are load of dark themes about for various desktops, kde, xfce and such like and this would just sit nicely with those dark themes that loads of people (including me i guess) seem to like ? i guess they have a reason for it.

ive done a couple of web design courses (which is why im okay with css,well sort of) and one of the things we did cover was colouring, mainly what to avoid using on websites, and colours that make websites user friendly, solid black with white text wasnt recommended, neither where colours like greys with blue text and blue with grey text.

i did try to apply that thinking with the themes i did (and the ones i hope to do) that thinking being that people will need to use it with out getting eye strain and with out it causing illness of any sort, i think i managed ? well i think that the themes ive done so far need a little polishing, but as the software itself isnt yet complete then i can let myself off a little.

i like that the look is controlled by a style sheet basically (thats what they are called when used for a website) it makes it very easy to customize and just about everyone can learn it, ive tried learning python and such like so that i could adapt compiz and awn etc, but i couldnt get my head round it if im honest.

one point is that in order for themes to be used effectively i think an installation system will be needed, something simple like dragging an archive into a theme setting some where, like you can do with the appearance of gnome, or maybe it could be coded so that the gnome art application could also allow a user to view themes easily and then download and install the chosen themes in one hit, again like you can now.

With regard to the little bits of java script that need to be adjusted, i think the plan is to make that part of the css, which (in my opinion) would make it a very versatile bit of kit, and it also means that people could really make the thing look exactly how they wanted with a little bit of code, and again as its effectively written in java script and css a lot of people already know the code and it paves the way for some interesting possibilities with regards to developing it.

#1225

techno-mole's theme definately help the looks but I still don't find gnome-shell nearly as friendly as the normal desktop , 1 thing that is an absolute deal breaker for me is that accidentaly touching activity instantly switches to that view , I have my windows set up so that the close button is top left and a miniscule overshoot sends you into activities mode , no clicking required.

#1226

ronacc said: techno-mole's theme definately help the looks but I still don't find gnome-shell nearly as friendly as the normal desktop , 1 thing that is an absolute deal breaker for me is that accidentaly touching activity instantly switches to that view , I have my windows set up so that the close button is top left and a miniscule overshoot sends you into activities mode , no clicking required.

i think it may be possible to change that, or at least the area that you have to mouse over to active the over view, i will have a look (most likely ask on the gnome shell mailing lists first, before i stuff it up) if not that may well be a future feature, i would like the ability to change where that " hot corner " can be placed, eg - any of the 4 corners of the screen, or even else where, i would also like to have a more comprehensive task manager, instead of the one it has that just shows 1 running application in the panel, but again these are things that will come with time.

#1227

I definitely agree with their choice to use CSS for styling. Not sure if any other desktop component uses it but it seriously simplify styling if all programs used it. That would allow for a more unified look and simplicity of use.

#1228

I have decided that my video support still isn't quite up to it yet. It works as a desktop but I sure can't find any "hot corner". I have to whack on activities quite sharply, usually more than once to get a response.

I have not seen any sign of any notification area, or anything for that matter, below the workstation + button. Just an awful lot of wasted space that looks like it could be used far better.

The left panel is crazy. Takes up a huge amount of space.

Between the left and the bottom this must be a real joy on a screen any smaller than my 1440x900. There is just no more room for a display.

I really can't fathom the problem with drop down menus but they must be out of style for being too useful or some other good reason.

#1229

techno-mole said: im trying to add more comprehensive comments to the css, so that its easier to find the bits you want to edit. Thanks for doing that, I had a look at your css and the oem css in meld and noticed your comments. It is very helpful to us learners to see what does what.

ranch hand said: I think we need the script for the "Buck Rodgers" special. It would be a great replacement for the default too. Have I created a monster with my comment, lol.

#1230

ranch hand said: I have decided that my video support still isn't quite up to it yet. It works as a desktop but I sure can't find any "hot corner". I have to whack on activities quite sharply, usually more than once to get a response.

If the hot corner won't activate, you can click rather than whacking it.

ranch hand said: I have not seen any sign of any notification area, or anything for that matter, below the workstation + button. Just an awful lot of wasted space that looks like it could be used far better.

I know currently it shows up for IMs, it seems it will also be for things like new mail and new songs, but I don't think it's been implemented yet.

ranch hand said: The left panel is crazy. Takes up a huge amount of space.

Between the left and the bottom this must be a real joy on a screen any smaller than my 1440x900. There is just no more room for a display.

I really can't fathom the problem with drop down menus but they must be out of style for being too useful or some other good reason. You do know that the overlay (the left panel) isn't supposed to be up the whole time right?

#1231

ranch hand said: The left panel is crazy. Takes up a huge amount of space.

Between the left and the bottom this must be a real joy on a screen any smaller than my 1440x900. There is just no more room for a display.

I really can't fathom the problem with drop down menus but they must be out of style for being too useful or some other good reason.

I have 1024x600 resolution and it doesn't take up that much space. I think it works out surprisingly well on a netbook.

#1232

I'm with ranch hand as far as the amount of screen estate the left pannel takes up , see SS and that is with 1920X1080 res , I also agree with techno-mole about the single item task manager , it makes no sense . BTW thanks techno-mole for looking into that .

#1233

k3lt01 said: Thanks for doing that, I had a look at your css and the oem css in meld and noticed your comments. It is very helpful to us learners to see what does what.

Have I created a monster with my comment, lol. I do not think so. I would just kind of like to have it.

It certainly looks better than the default and some serious time was put into it. I think it might be FUN.

You have to admit that if you had that up on your box and someone came in they would really wonder what you were using (as they would with any look you have on GS).

Say what you like about GS, it is different.

#1234

Why would you care about it using that much space while in the overview? You can't use applications while in it anyway so I'm not seeing why it would matter.

#1235

Merk42 Yes I am aware that it goes away. It is still a waste of space. I really like 6 workstations. Kind of hard to see what is on them on my screen.

I know what is on them so that doesn't really matter to me. In that case why have the display?

Use about half the space currently hogged by things better put in a menu, and you woudl have room for the display to actually work.

Thanks for the info on the notification area. I do not IM so that probably explains that.

If I "sharply" click, once to three times on applications it will acttivate. If I do a normal click up to 10 times (the most I have tried) there is no response at all. Once I have my workspaces set up this is not too big a problem with the functionality of Alt+Tab, which I think I could get used to using.

I have to be gone most of next week and need to prepare things here for that to be smooth but I need to recompile nautilus to get the tabs back where they belong. I made the mistake of trying this on my main testing OS and was lucky not to screw it up.

When I get back I am going to try it again on the GS install. This will give me a little time on the bugger actually doing something. Ought to give me an idea if I can get into using it or not. I think, with some improvements, I could. I am kind of surprised that I am looking forward to spending some real time on it.

#1236

OlyPerson said: Why would you care about it using that much space while in the overview? You can't use applications while in it anyway so I'm not seeing why it would matter.

If you can't really see the individual workstations they are pointless. In which case the display should go and leave room for more stuff to be on that area.

Basically I feel, right now, that screen is badly flawed. The only purpose it seems to have is to entertain folks by zooming in and out, fairly pointlessly, when its functions san be handled better by the drop down style menus of the panels we now use.

Now, this is still early days and a lot of this could change tomorrow. There is a long time before this bugger is released and then it may be a bit more before it is really used. It may be quite a different animal by then.

I haven't been able to see it before now but I have been following this thread and it is appearent that it has changed a lot in a fairly short period of time.

I think it will improve.

#1237

moore.bryan said: Anyone else getting this error when trying to upgrade today:


E: /var/cache/apt/archives/gir1.0-mutter-2.29_2.29.0+git20100226-0ubuntu1~10.04~ricotz1_i386.deb: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/mutter/Meta-2.29.typelib', which is also in package gir1.0-mutter-2.28 0

Uninstall gir1.0-mutter-2.28, it'll uninstall gnome-shell too. Then install gnome-shell, it'll install gir1.0-mutter-2.29

#1238

Will there be a replacement for compiz?

because if not i don't think i would ever use it period.:)

#1239

aviramof said: Will there be a replacement for compiz?

because if not i don't think i would ever use it period.:)

Likewise. I've grown to love Compiz and wouldn't accept anything less.

#1240

aviramof said: Will there be a replacement for compiz?

because if not i don't think i would ever use it period.:) I hope not. Can't stand compiz.

#1241

ranch hand said: Say what you like about GS, it is different.I like G-S, alot. It is my default on my desktop, it is still to hungry to use easily on my laptop though.

I like what Techno Mole has been doing with the css and will have a play with it myself to see if I can make it look like an extension of my normal 2.x look.

#1242

aviramof said: Will there be a replacement for compiz?

because if not i don't think i would ever use it period.:)

I hope so. Currently I don't believe there is but I'm hoping there will be some sort of plugins that could be adapted to it.

ranch hand said: I hope not. Can't stand compiz.

lol? There's one -1. The overwelming majority would hope that something would exist, though.

#1243

Compiz is awesome, non-wobbly windows don't seem right for me anymore.

#1244

Roasted said: lol? There's one -1. The overwelming majority would hope that something would exist, though.Here's another -1. It serves no useful purpose on any of my machines and stops programs like Google Earth working properly (being a teacher I have found Google Earth is very effective in teaching Geography).

To me, and I'll be quite frank about it, Compiz and apps like it are there for people who need to be entertained by visually appealing (to them) tricks. I don't need or want window wobbles or any of the other effects that Compiz enables. They don't make my machines easier to use or more suitable for anything I do.

#1245

Sashin said: Compiz is awesome, non-wobbly windows don't seem right for me anymore.

i think so too one of the most intersting things in ubuntu is compiz wobbly windows and dodge effect and the cube and etc can't do without them anymore:)

#1246

k3lt01 said: Here's another -1. It serves no useful purpose on any of my machines and stops programs like Google Earth working properly (being a teacher I have found Google Earth is very effective in teaching Geography).

To me, and I'll be quite frank about it, Compiz and apps like it are there for people who need to be entertained by visually appealing (to them) tricks. I don't need or want window wobbles or any of the other effects that Compiz enables. They don't make my machines easier to use or more suitable for anything I do. I realize that I am in the minority on this but I sure an glad I'm not alone. At least you can do with out it easily.

It probably would be good to give the sensor deprived the choice to have their fun.

#1247

So, with all the great commenting in the .css file from techno-mole, I tossed together this theme... just so you guys will have another choice if you want to use it. Perhaps we should consider a gnome-shell themes thread somewhere?

#1248

ranch hand said: I realize that I am in the minority on this but I sure an glad I'm not alone. At least you can do with out it easily.Hey, I have never been one to go with the flow. I'm very much an individual that's see no use in being another clone of of the majority rule ;) I use Linux after all.

ranch hand said: It probably would be good to give the sensor deprived the choice to have their fun.I agree but I have my voice and I plan to use it.

keth said: Perhaps we should consider a gnome-shell themes thread somewhere?Excellent idea :D

#1249

keth said: So, with all the great commenting in the .css file from techno-mole, I tossed together this theme... just so you guys will have another choice if you want to use it. Perhaps we should consider a gnome-shell themes thread somewhere?

Oh my, it is green.

I like green.

I am going to have to have at least one more 10.04 install so I can check all these out and screw with them on my own.

Thanks a lot.

#1250

i have started a new thread regarding themes for gnome shell - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1418056

hopefully any themes created will be posted in that thread so we can keep them all in one place.

#1251

Anyone else trying to run gnome-shell with RGBA enabled ?

Using this wiki for RGBA https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/RgbaGtkWithPPA/

Using the ppa-version and it just crashes when I starts an app....

plun@plun-laptop:~$ gnome-shell --replace
progname=mutter; RGBA=on
/home/plun/.themes/NOX/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:233: Murrine configuration option "gradients" is no longer supported and will be ignored.
      JS LOG: GNOME Shell started at Sun Feb 28 2010 11:08:19 GMT+0100 (CET)
Window manager warning: Log level 8: gdk_drawable_set_colormap: assertion `cmap == NULL || gdk_drawable_get_depth (drawable) == cmap->visual->depth' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: gdk_drawable_set_colormap: assertion `cmap == NULL || gdk_drawable_get_depth (drawable) == cmap->visual->depth' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_frame_style_draw_with_style: assertion `style_gtk->colormap == gdk_drawable_get_colormap (drawable)' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: gdk_drawable_set_colormap: assertion `cmap == NULL || gdk_drawable_get_depth (drawable) == cmap->visual->depth' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_frame_style_draw_with_style: assertion `style_gtk->colormap == gdk_drawable_get_colormap (drawable)' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: gdk_drawable_set_colormap: assertion `cmap == NULL || gdk_drawable_get_depth (drawable) == cmap->visual->depth' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_frame_style_draw_with_style: assertion `style_gtk->colormap == gdk_drawable_get_colormap (drawable)' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: gdk_drawable_set_colormap: assertion `cmap == NULL || gdk_drawable_get_depth (drawable) == cmap->visual->depth' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_frame_style_draw_with_style: assertion `style_gtk->colormap == gdk_drawable_get_colormap (drawable)' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: gdk_drawable_set_colormap: assertion `cmap == NULL || gdk_drawable_get_depth (drawable) == cmap->visual->depth' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: gdk_drawable_set_colormap: assertion `cmap == NULL || gdk_drawable_get_depth (drawable) == cmap->visual->depth' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_frame_style_draw_with_style: assertion `style_gtk->colormap == gdk_drawable_get_colormap (drawable)' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: gdk_drawable_set_colormap: assertion `cmap == NULL || gdk_drawable_get_depth (drawable) == cmap->visual->depth' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_frame_style_draw_with_style: assertion `style_gtk->colormap == gdk_drawable_get_colormap (drawable)' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: gdk_drawable_set_colormap: assertion `cmap == NULL || gdk_drawable_get_depth (drawable) == cmap->visual->depth' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_frame_style_draw_with_style: assertion `style_gtk->colormap == gdk_drawable_get_colormap (drawable)' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: gdk_drawable_set_colormap: assertion `cmap == NULL || gdk_drawable_get_depth (drawable) == cmap->visual->depth' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_frame_style_draw_with_style: assertion `style_gtk->colormap == gdk_drawable_get_colormap (drawable)' failed
[B]Bug in window manager: Unexpected X error: BadDrawable (invalid Pixmap or Window parameter) serial 8237 error_code 9 request_code 53 minor_code 0)
Shell killed with signal 6[/B]
plun@plun-laptop:~$ 
progname=gnome-panel; RGBA=on
/home/plun/.themes/NOX/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:233: Murrine configuration option "gradients" is no longer supported and will be ignored.
** (gnome-panel:19594): DEBUG: Initialized Panel Applet Signaler.
** (gnome-panel:19594): DEBUG: Adding applet 0.
** (gnome-panel:19594): DEBUG: Adding applet 1.
** (gnome-panel:19594): DEBUG: Adding applet 2.
** (gnome-panel:19594): DEBUG: Adding applet 3.
** (gnome-panel:19594): DEBUG: Adding applet 4.
** (gnome-panel:19594): DEBUG: Adding applet 5.
** (gnome-panel:19594): DEBUG: Adding applet 6.

:confused:

#1252

I'm using Lucid Alpha3 (dist-upgrade on Feb 28). I installed gnome-shell from the ppa and it crashed after getting started.

#1253

i wouldnt try and get gnome shell to do too much at the moment, its still very much in development, im not even sure everything it can do has been implemented as yet.

#1254

techno-mole said: i have started a new thread regarding themes for gnome shell - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1418056

hopefully any themes created will be posted in that thread so we can keep them all in one place.

Why in Absolute Beginner Talk? I would think in Lucid Lynx Testing and Discussion or Art and Design would be more fitting

#1255

Merk42 said: Why in Absolute Beginner Talk? I would think in Lucid Lynx Testing and Discussion or Art and Design would be more fittingUm I'm using it in Karmic so Lucid Lynx isn't more fitting for me. It does have a wider audience so I would think the lowest common denominator would be the most appropriate.

#1256

The notifications seem to be working nicely. Despite there being an icon to switch to that app, I think the notification message should be retained somehow, perhaps when you mouse over the icon, so you don't have to switch to that app to know what's going on.

#1257

k3lt01 said: Um I'm using it in Karmic so Lucid Lynx isn't more fitting for me. It does have a wider audience so I would think the lowest common denominator would be the most appropriate.

In that case Desktop Environments subforum would have suited it better. Threads get lost pretty quickly in the sea at ABT.

#1258

Thanks techno-mole got your theme installed. On to the next question is it possible to have all installed application be shown instead of having to type in the application u want in the find box?

#1259

lime4x4 said: Thanks techno-mole got your theme installed. On to the next question is it possible to have all installed application be shown instead of having to type in the application u want in the find box?

Just click on applications in the overview. It shows all of them there.

#1260

Quick question:

How do you drag and drop files from one window to another (minimised or hidden window) in gnome shell? At the moment, I use the taskbar on the bottom to, say, drop a music file from rhythm box, to brasero burner by holding the file over the brasero task, which opens up the window, allowing me to drop it into a new compilation.

Duncan.

#1261

Quick question:

How do you drag and drop files from one window to another (minimised or hidden window) in gnome shell? At the moment, I use the taskbar on the bottom to, say, drop a music file from rhythm box, to brasero burner by holding the file over the brasero task, which opens up the window, allowing me to drop it into a new compilation.

Duncan. No way, of course.

#1262

Just tried it.....didn't last long. much rather stick to normal gnome with crunchbang theme.

#1263

Just installed gnome-shell from the repo's, lot's of errors flashing up on the terminal (mainly about clutter) and few things seemed a bit slow. Definatly interesting though, going to build it from git now and see if that versions any better. Anyone know why the version in the repo is still on 2.28.1 rather than 2.29.90 (which is the latest) especially as this is the development version?

#1264

strange, i installed gnome shell from the ppa and i have 2.29 ?

#1265

Ah I'm not using a PPA, just the version in lucid repo's. Will add the PPA now

#1266

k3lt01 said: Here's another -1. It serves no useful purpose on any of my machines and stops programs like Google Earth working properly (being a teacher I have found Google Earth is very effective in teaching Geography).

To me, and I'll be quite frank about it, Compiz and apps like it are there for people who need to be entertained by visually appealing (to them) tricks. I don't need or want window wobbles or any of the other effects that Compiz enables. They don't make my machines easier to use or more suitable for anything I do.

I agree. I don't like wobbly windows at all or any of the additional 3d eye candy. It was great for like a week, but after that it became old. However, it seems as if you're only prying into the surface. Compiz has a lot of subtle, but nice features that many users have grown adapt to.

I'm not saying I want a cube to spin. Wee. Whatever. It gets old. But I hope at least SOME of Compiz-like functionality (whether it's Compiz or some sort of plugin to Gnome Shell to handle similar tasks) is integrated.

I'm not somebody who praises Compiz, I only... let me use your terminology... speak frank about it. And the overwelming majority of Linux users seem to like their eye candy. As nice as Gnome Shell looks and feels, a few little added something(s) might be a nice addition.

#1267

What!? There really is no way to drag and drop files from one maximized window to another unless they are resized into place?

Add that to the growing list of reasons why a perennial window/task list is necessary. :rolleyes:

#1268

robinparriath said: What!? There really is no way to drag and drop files from one maximized window to another unless they are resized into place?

Add that to the growing list of reasons why a perennial window/task list is necessary. :rolleyes:

a task list wouldn't be necessary. one could drag files from anywhere to the overview and then to an App icon from the app well or an open window.

I even filed a bug report about it in bugzilla, but nothing came of it because tbh I didn't know how to file a proper enhancement request.

#1269

augias said: a task list wouldn't be necessary. one could drag files from anywhere to the overview and then to an App icon from the app well or an open window.

...

I did consider that, but didn't like it and here's why:

Dragging a dropping a file into a moving target (think number of windows open each time you perform an action) is time consuming since there is always time required to visually identify the correct target.

Now compare this to a target that moves relatively little and only in one dimension. Add to this the fact as correctly pointed out by Merk time and again, that it is easier not to miss due to it's infinite height.

Whatever happened to: 'If it ain't broke don't fix it' ? ;)

Let's wait and watch. It should all work out. :popcorn:

#1270

By, the way, I must say, I love the notification system and the way it interacts with rhythmbox. Very... mobile-phone like. Can't wait to see the completed version.

#1271

Where is this supposed notification area? I use rhythmbox and I never saw anything.

#1272

It activates when the mouse touches the bottom-right of the screen. There is no icon there right now. It's just that when the songs change, the notification allows me to skip to the next song. But I see potential in it!

I stand corrected... there is an icon in the notification area which opens up rhythmbox for you. Like I said, loving it.

#1273

Heyyyyy guys. Anybody else out there? Thunderbird crashing on Shell users? Anybody?

Happens on my desktop, but not my laptop... *shrug* both 9.10, both ricotz ppa...

#1274

Roasted said: Heyyyyy guys. Anybody else out there? Thunderbird crashing on Shell users? Anybody?

Happens on my desktop, but not my laptop... *shrug* both 9.10, both ricotz ppa...

Never used Thunderbird myself, never understood the need with web-based email around, not even sure what those are for to be honest.

#1275

so is there going to be compiz replacement in Gnome Shell?

#1276

OlyPerson said: Never used Thunderbird myself, never understood the need with web-based email around, not even sure what those are for to be honest.

Well, I use Thunderbird at work with our exchange server, and I also use Thunderbird at home since I bounce between 3 email accounts and it's nice to have them all integrated into 1 interface.

Plus I have yet to see a web based mail client who's web interface doesn't.... suck.

#1277

Roasted said: Well, I use Thunderbird at work with our exchange server, and I also use Thunderbird at home since I bounce between 3 email accounts and it's nice to have them all integrated into 1 interface.

Plus I have yet to see a web based mail client who's web interface doesn't.... suck.

i’m using thunderbird but can not confirm crashes (g-s built from source on 9.10). actually, g-s has been very stable during the past few weeks.

#1278

aviramof said: so is there going to be compiz replacement in Gnome Shell?

Yes it's called Mutter.

#1279

Roasted said: Well, I use Thunderbird at work with our exchange server, and I also use Thunderbird at home since I bounce between 3 email accounts and it's nice to have them all integrated into 1 interface.

Plus I have yet to see a web based mail client who's web interface doesn't.... suck.

Ah, forgot about work stuff- seems so far in the future (actually, I should probably start thinking about it, only 2 more years in college is seems). Have you taken a look at gmail? It never disappoints me, it normally... what would the opposite of disappoint be? Appoint? Well you get the idea.

Well anyways, OOo used to crash with GS too and eventually that got fixed, I assume the same will happen with Thunderbird.

#1280

I use Thunderbird on two systems running gnome-shell, I have yet to see Thunderbird on either system crash or cause gnome-shell to crash, once Thunderbird seemed to hiccup before loading an email from one of the mailing lists I'm on, but that's about it.

#1281

NightwishFan said: I am wondering how to drag and drop between programs in the Shell. When using Gnome2 you can drag to a hidden program by hovering over it's icon.

I sent a mail to the GS mailing list regarding that issue:

Dragging and dropping to hidden windows

Hi all,

I would like to make a request to you developers: In gnome 2.x I can drag an element (text, files...) to another window even if it's minimised or hidden, by first dragging it to its task list entry (which will bring the window to the top).

I have found that there is no way to do something similar in GS, and honestly, it kind of disrupts my work. Therefore, I would like to be able to drag those elements to the activities window to get an overview of all windows while still holding the items, and be able to drop them in any given window.

Maybe hold the cursor over a window for a couple seconds to close the overlay mode, in case you need to drop the elements in a specific part of the window.

Do you think that could be done? Also, I'm not subscribed to the list so please could you CC me if you reply to this message?

Thanks for your hard work,

David.

Sadly, it seems it hasn't even been published.

#1282

Good idea. If you post it here http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ it could happen

#1283

Just did a fresh install of GNOME Shell on my fresh install of A3. Working pretty well so far except the overlay is little laggy on zooming out. Other than that all the apps I've been using work fine. Only thing I miss about Gnome 2.28's in A3 are those new nifty additions they've made to the topbar like the memenu.

#1284

Roasted said: Heyyyyy guys. Anybody else out there? Thunderbird crashing on Shell users? Anybody?

Happens on my desktop, but not my laptop... *shrug* both 9.10, both ricotz ppa...

Thunderbird seems to play well with gs on my system. Do you use the Thunderbird from software center or from ubuntuzilla?

#1285

I use Thunderbird from the software center. I get no warning or anything, or just straight up disappears each time I open it and click on a message. But as I said - it's only my desktop...

I can see some work has been done to better accommodate dual screen systems, but there's one final thing I recommend... perhaps other dual users out here can comment. When you go into overview, your entire desktop gets taken as the background for your workspace. Meaning in my case, I see a 19 inch background next to a 24 inch background, and that's my workspace that all of the thumbnail-ish windows appear on.

Thing is, this makes for a very wide workspace, so if you up it to 4 workspaces, in order to accomodate all 4 wide windows, they become much smaller and harder to see.

Simple request - how about we just see the main (primary) monitor on the background of the workspace in overview mode? GS works 100% nicer on my laptop simply for this reason.

Minor suggestion, but I think it'll go far.

#1286

All I want is some incantation that allows me to say, "Launch this application and have it open on that specific desktop (view port)" along with some predicate logic like, "if there is an external display active, and I ask for the email reader, then put it on the external display". Also, "put all terminal windows onto that desktop in a tiled orientation"

Compiz has some of this, but does not play nicely with my tablet-PC features. Gnome Shell is even less willing to play with others. I welcome input from those who actually have GS running with tablet-PC features -- especially if they are willing to share details of how to get things running without [re-]writing drivers or other black magic.

Cheers, ~~~ 0;-Dan

~~~ 0;-Dan

#1287

SaintDanBert said: All I want is some incantation that allows me to say, "Launch this application and have it open on that specific desktop (view port)"

Try dragging and dropping application icons from the app well into a workspace / the + icon?

#1288

Bou said: I sent a mail to the GS mailing list regarding that issue:

Sadly, it seems it hasn't even been published.

Thanks for trying!

Duncan

#1289

Bou said: I sent a mail to the GS mailing list regarding that issue:

Sadly, it seems it hasn't even been published.

There was a delay, but it's been published. The responses are carried over into the month of March.

#1290

Merk42 said: There was a delay, but it's been published. The responses are carried over into the month of March.

And my _old bug report_ is brought back into the light! *crosses fingers*

#1291

augias said: And my _old bug report_ is brought back into the light! *crosses fingers*

I've commented on your bug and added the contents of my message, as well as some use examples :p

#1292

i have a doubt regarding gnome-shell. Is it compulsory to use it?? can't we have only gnome without compositing etc... can't we do with a different wm??

#1293

rahilm said: i have a doubt regarding gnome-shell.

Is it compulsory to use it?? can't we have only gnome without compositing etc... can't we do with a different wm??

Gnome-panels will still be around to use.

#1294

using gnome shell, quite like it. one problem though.

I cannot change my input method when i want to search for a chinese something. it only allows the system default.

By that i mean that the ibus applet is not activatable from the activities panel!

I must be missing something really simple here...

#1295

rahilm said: i have a doubt regarding gnome-shell.

Is it compulsory to use it?? can't we have only gnome without compositing etc... can't we do with a different wm??

http://live.gnome.org/GNOME3Myths#Hardware_Requirements

#1296

Ok, I am seriously annoyed with the alt-tab system. If you are cycling between 3 windows, 2 of which are on the same program, it just does NOT work. It is the most inconvenient system ever having alt-tab and alt-`.

Please, for me if one thing is changed between the final product and now change this. The current way has no reason and is not logical and restricts workflow.

Edit: I want to get on the mailing list to ask about this and try and get them to change it (I also noticed it doesn't work well if you use different workspaces). How does one get on the mailing list anyway?

#1297

OlyPerson said: Ok, I am seriously annoyed with the alt-tab system. If you are cycling between 3 windows, 2 of which are on the same program, it just does NOT work. It is the most inconvenient system ever having alt-tab and alt-`.There are quite a few of us who have expressed similar pov's. There are also some who think its the only way to work, "doh"

#1298

OlyPerson said: Ok, I am seriously annoyed with the alt-tab system. If you are cycling between 3 windows, 2 of which are on the same program, it just does NOT work. It is the most inconvenient system ever having alt-tab and alt-`.

Am I missing something? It works perfectly: alt-tab, then use left/right arrows to switch between applications; up/down will get you into the list of windows within applications and back; then left/right until you reach the window you want. Alternatively just use the mouse to click on the window you want.

I seriously think I must be missing something.

#1299

RavisPohan said: Am I missing something? It works perfectly: alt-tab, then use left/right arrows to switch between applications; up/down will get you into the list of windows within applications and back; then left/right until you reach the window you want. Alternatively just use the mouse to click on the window you want.

I seriously think I must be missing something. Yes, you are. Alt+Tab usually provides the way to quiclky switch between windows, not the apps without additional actions like you mentioned above. Since they don't have a quick way to switch between apps like taskbar or dock, they decided to modify alt+tab for this reason. But they killed easy "switch windows" feature. So, we have two huge workflow issues for Gnome shell:

  • No way to d'n'd items between windows if one of them is hidden
  • No fast way to switch between recently used windows (It always was the basic feature of Alt+Tab)
#1300

Perhaps they should implement a SUPER+TAB combo to simply cycle through all windows.

#1301

OlyPerson said: Edit: I want to get on the mailing list to ask about this and try and get them to change it (I also noticed it doesn't work well if you use different workspaces). How does one get on the mailing list anyway?

Check my signature

#1302

Polniy said:

  1. No fast way to switch between recently used windows (It always was the basic feature of Alt+Tab)

Ah, you're referring to the z-order of windows. I like the idea of GS being application based rather than windows, but alt-tab needs both really.

#1303

OlyPerson said: Ok, I am seriously annoyed with the alt-tab system. If you are cycling between 3 windows, 2 of which are on the same program, it just does NOT work. It is the most inconvenient system ever having alt-tab and alt-`.

Please, for me if one thing is changed between the final product and now change this. The current way has no reason and is not logical and restricts workflow.

Edit: I want to get on the mailing list to ask about this and try and get them to change it (I also noticed it doesn't work well if you use different workspaces). How does one get on the mailing list anyway?

LOL I agree. Can the developers maybe-sorta-kinda just add a window/task switcher like the rest of the world is asking?? ;):)

#1304

OlyPerson said: If you are cycling between 3 windows, 2 of which are on the same program, it just does NOT work. It is the most inconvenient system ever having alt-tab and alt-`.

I agree that for switching windows alt-tab is not ideal. By all means send an email to the mailing list and see what they have to say. In the meanwhile, OlyPerson, please try alt-esc, which is what i do to switch between the most recent _windows_ and not _apps_. In fact i am using it a lot more than alt-tab :)

#1305

Ah, you're referring to the z-order of windows. I like the idea of GS being application based rather than windows, but alt-tab needs both really.

The whole Gnome Shell development history shows "task centric" approach isn't a very good idea. First, they were forced to add application menu instead of "task" menu. Then they were forced to operate with application objects instead of "task" objects. It has happened because there are no "task" infrastructure at first, and, at second, "task centric" idea is not universal, although application one is. If they manage to make "task" approach as universal as "app" one, the first one would be exactly the same as the latter :D

#1306

augias said: I agree that for switching windows alt-tab is not ideal. By all means send an email to the mailing list and see what they have to say. In the meanwhile, OlyPerson, please try alt-esc, which is what i do to switch between the most recent _windows_ and not _apps_. In fact i am using it a lot more than alt-tab :)

I'm banned there :(

#1307

Roasted said: LOL I agree. Can the developers maybe-sorta-kinda just add a window/task switcher like the rest of the world is asking?? ;):)

They won't, they have already got too deep into their notification area which uses the bottom part :D

#1308

Merk42 said: Check my signature

Done.

augias said: I agree that for switching windows alt-tab is not ideal. By all means send an email to the mailing list and see what they have to say. In the meanwhile, OlyPerson, please try alt-esc, which is what i do to switch between the most recent _windows_ and not _apps_. In fact i am using it a lot more than alt-tab :)

I did not know that! It's not the ideal behavior as there is no visual representation of what is next but it's basically what I want. Thank you very much.

Polniy said: They won't, they have already got too deep into their notification area which uses the bottom part :D

I was thinking they could use the space where the calendar is now and have a row of icons- like win7 now- and you click on this to switch and when you hover over it a thumbnail would pop up of that window. Solves most every problem, and I don't think people would mind the clock being moved to its previous place.

Polniy said: I'm banned there :(

How'd that happen?

#1309

How'd that happen?

I always said how bad gnome-shell was in all my messages. They did it because they wanted "constructive" discussion. But I couldn't imagine how to be "constructive" about the totally wrong thing.

#1310

Polniy said: I always said how bad gnome-shell was in all my messages. They did it because they wanted "constructive" discussion. But I couldn't imagine how to be "constructive" about the totally wrong thing.

Well it seems you gave some relatively constructive criticism here. Have you at all changed your mind about it?

#1311

Polniy said: They won't, they have already got too deep into their notification area which uses the bottom part :D

I hate to say it, but it's going to hurt them pretty badly to not include some kind of window/app switcher. I've heard about 2 or 3 people who are content with it as is. Everybody else is using AWN or Docky2.

GS should feel complete out of the box. And currently (in my opinion) Docky2 is required to make it even usable.

#1312

I think what's going on is that they are testing the notion of "reducing distractions" to the barest minimum, with the apparent assumption that this increases productivity and the assumption that increased productivity is never a bad thing. Thus, you have to inconvenience yourself by stopping whatever you are doing, looking at the keyboard, finding the Alt and Tab keys, positioning your hand so that your thumb is at the Alt and one of your fingers is at the Tab, then holding Alt while you press Tab. This will punish users who are curious about what other tasks they have running and thus condition users to accept a task-at-hand approach to their desktop. Moving the mouse so that it brings up the overlay is also an inconvenience (in that moving the mouse forces you to move your hand from the keyboard to the mouse, then pick up the mouse so that it rests in a suitable position for moving, then moving that mouse to where it needs to go).

For a professional setting, it makes a lot of sense, and I fully expect it to have the desired result on productivity. I just wonder if that's the right mentality to have for a home desktop user.

#1313

OlyPerson said: Well it seems you gave some relatively constructive criticism here. Have you at all changed your mind about it?

No, I still think G-S is a piece of s... : mutter is slow (it was written by aliens, I'm sure human couldn't make such a strange decision to delay windows movement when dragging it), the overlay screen getting slower (lags when refreshing recent documents list), calendar doesn't roll out smoothly. General interface inconsistency (it's not gtk). The only good thing is a Mac-style Alt+Tab apperance (but not the G-S Alt+Tab). BTW, I'm using workspaces for a long time, but G-S approach doesn't add any usability, but only decrease it (static configuration is enough for me).

#1314

Polniy said: No, I still think G-S is a piece of s... : mutter is slow

Works fast here > the overlay screen getting slower (lags when refreshing recent documents list) Doesn't lag with me. When was the last time you tried shell, september? > calendar doesn't roll out smoothly. Yes it does > General interface inconsistency (it's not gtk). It's also not a window. Do you think gtk could draw what the overview does? > The only good thing is a Mac-style Alt+Tab apperance (but not the G-S Alt+Tab). It's good because it looks like osx but its bad because it is not osx? :confused: > BTW, I'm using workspaces for a long time, but G-S approach doesn't add any usability, but only decrease it (static configuration is enough for me). [IMG]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/208391/negativeman.png[/IMG]

#1315

I think GTK+ is getting clutter to be able to draw 3d. Someone made (or is making) a nautilus fork with a cover-flow like finder. I assume they made using clutter.

#1316

Roasted said: I hate to say it, but it's going to hurt them pretty badly to not include some kind of window/app switcher. I've heard about 2 or 3 people who are content with it as is. Everybody else is using AWN or Docky2.

GS should feel complete out of the box. And currently (in my opinion) Docky2 is required to make it even usable.All they need to do is implement a Gnome Panel style infrastructure. It is that simple :popcorn: I tried the add on dock idea and its just all wrong for me.

I have to admit I am getting used to it on my desktop even though I still don't like how the general implementation flows. It is still relatively unuable on my little old laptop though.

#1317

Ahh no! Ricotz ppa just broke on my lucid install! I need a held back xorg update for xserver-xephyr. I suppose I can wait.

#1318

Ever since I upgraded to lucid, the battery and sound applets haven't shown up in the panel (I'm guessing because of the new menu thing they have), is there any way I can get these to work, maybe with an older version or something?

#1319

HalfEmptyHero said: Ever since I upgraded to lucid, the battery and sound applets haven't shown up in the panel (I'm guessing because of the new menu thing they have), is there any way I can get these to work, maybe with an older version or something?

for the sound applet, make sure indicator-sound is installed

#1320

I just checked, and I already have it installed.

#1321

And the indicator applet is on your panel?

#1322

k3lt01 said: All they need to do is implement a Gnome Panel style infrastructure. It is that simple :popcorn: I tried the add on dock idea and its just all wrong for me.

Yeah. I suppose a dock doesn't work for everybody. After using a dock, though, I cannot stand the bottom panel on Gnome systems. It's the first thing to do whenever I put Ubuntu on another system.

If GS adds something worthy of a replacement, then maybe that day I will part ways with my dock. But the way it's looking, it's looking to me that I will forever use a dock to fill in the missing gap GS has yet to acknowledge.

Crossing fingers. ;)

#1323

DoeRayMe said: And the indicator applet is on your panel?

Yes. It shows up on the gnome-panel when gnome-shell isn't running

#1324

Is there any way to customize the way applications are presented to you when you're in the overview mode and hit applications? I don't like the grid it shows. I preferred the full list...

#1325

I was wondering, is there a way to launch the Gnome Shell with a a hot key rather then using the command line.

#1326

aviedw said: I was wondering, is there a way to launch the Gnome Shell with a a hot key rather then using the command line.

Find "Keyboard Shortcuts" click add name=whatever you want, command="gnome-shell --replace" then assign it to which hotkey.

That should do it.

#1327

[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial]I have used both on ubuntu. Have also used kubuntu. Happy to be contradicted by anyone who has noticed a significant difference in functionality by adding kde but personally Ive never seen any real difference. But I actually hate Gnome, so I could be a little biased.

[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

#1328

augias said: Works fast here

Doesn't lag with me. When was the last time you tried shell, september? Yes it does It's also not a window. Do you think gtk could draw what the overview does? It's good because it looks like osx but its bad because it is not osx? :confused: [IMG]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/208391/negativeman.png[/IMG]

1) PPA. It doesn't seen how slow it is with simple windows. When windows getting complex, the mutter slowness is showing up. Synthetic tests shows it, especially how slow to response mutter is. 2) I want it to be consistent with the rest. I'm also not a person who loves to customize things. 3) I like large icons. I don't like I can't switch to the previous window immediately. So, I would be pleased with Mac-like Alt+Tab appearance, but not with strange G-S team inventions. BTW, they should understand one simple thing: One app != One task in general, especially with monsters like Evolution. Another example: IM clients with roster and chat window. They are one app, but not one task, choosing a buddy is not the same as talking to him. ------------------------------------------- Oh, I've just realized what's wrong with them!!! :D:D They didn't define what "TASK" is LOL But if the did, they would realized how pointless "task centric" approach is :D:D:D

#1329

Going to ask my gnome shell question here

how do i search in a different language in the activities entry field

i'm really liking it, but most of my apps/docs are in chinese, and can't work out how to change the language!

if you can answer it i can close this thread!

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1419107

#1330

also, its a bit of a hog.

i didn't know why i bought 3 cores until i started using this

#1331

NightwishFan said: Ahh no! Ricotz ppa just broke on my lucid install! I need a held back xorg update for xserver-xephyr. I suppose I can wait.

This happened to me. I removed gnome-shell, did any upgrades, then installed gnome-shell again.

#1332

namluc said: also, its a bit of a hog.

i didn't know why i bought 3 cores until i started using this

You have something else using all your resources, see my screenshot. Open a terminal and run top it should tell you what is causing so much cpu usage. I'm running an AMD X2 3400+ with an Nvidia GT210 and 2Gb ram.

#1333

looks like fail

#1334

PrimoTurbo said: looks like fail

Great constructive comment :)

#1335

I'm using GS compiled from source. Does anyone know how I can create a .deb package so I can install it on other machines? The other machines are too slow for compiling.

#1336

I use checkinstall for making deb files for myself. You might need the "--fstrans=no" option when using it (I forget if they've fixed that yet).

#1337

can i install it and uninstall it with out worrying about problems? and how much outdated is the gnome-shell package?

#1338

aviramof said: can i install it and uninstall it with out worrying about problems? and how much outdated is the gnome-shell package?

I can only speak for building from source, but once you get the dependencies out of the way, everything sits in ~/gnome-shell . Even with everything installed you need to run a command to start it (and subsquently CTLR-C to end it)

#1339

ok i'v managed to run it using gnome-shell --replace it's look nice but a little strange and for now i don't it solves the problem i have with auto arrange on desktop.

is there any utility like compiz-fusion icon to change between gnome and gnome-shell?

#1340

aviramof said: ok i'v managed to run it using gnome-shell --replace it's look nice but a little strange and for now i don't it solves the problem i have with auto arrange on desktop.

is there any utility like compiz-fusion icon to change between gnome and gnome-shell?

when you're in gnome-shell, you can exit into your previous desktop manager safely by typing "debugexit" in alt-F2.

#1341

augias said: when you're in gnome-shell, you can exit into your previous desktop manager safely by typing "debugexit" in alt-F2.

or if the terminal that you launched. gnome-shell --replace is still up, you can hit CTRL-C.

Don't know of any icon though, I guess you could maybe make two yourself? One to turn on, one to shut off?

#1342

by the way i get this error when i use gnome-shell --replace

Window manager warning: Log level 16: IA__g_object_set_valist: construct property "type" for object `ShellEmbeddedWindow' can't be set after construction
Window manager warning: Log level 16: IA__g_object_set_valist: construct property "type" for object `ShellEmbeddedWindow' can't be set after construction
E: /var/cache/apt/archives/gir1.0-mutter-2.29_2.29.0+git20100226-0ubuntu1~10.04~ricotz1_i386.deb: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/mutter/Meta-2.29.typelib', which is also in package gir1.0-mutter-2.28 0

ok i'v managed to fix it removed gir1.0-mutter-2.28 0 then installed gir1.0-mutter-2.29 0 and reinstall gnome-shell using sudo-apt install gnome-shell because terminal said it's not installed for some reason and now it's even looks better because it's translated to hebrew and is on the right side of the screen as it should be.

but now i have this errors in terminal:

Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_window_set_user_time: assertion `!window->override_redirect' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_window_raise: assertion `!window->override_redirect' failed
Window manager warning: Log level 8: meta_window_focus: assertion `!window->override_redirect' failed

and it is still bugy at the moment so i'll download updates from the ricotzppa every now and then as part of the usual updates and will see how it goes.:)

#1343

I have nothing to do with GnomeShell's development, but for some reason I feel the need to defend it. I've been using it on my Asus EeePC-1005HA netbook for the last two months and have found *none* of the problems and/or frustrations other users have in this thread. I went into using it knowing it was a *drastic* departure from what I was used to and wanted to be ready for when the inevitable change comes.

There is almost nothing I would change about it because most of my solved problems were not GnomeShell's fault; rather, other programs weren't playing nice with it.

#1344

Bryan, defending is admirable but I think when developers decide on a new thing they need to make sure it will work with the latest versions of the programs it will be used with. If other programs are already established it would make sense to make sure a new program isn't going to struggle because the new programs developers neglected to make it "play well" with the already established scene.

MS did the exact same thing when they developed and released Vista, it didn't work well with established programs/hardare and ended up being one of the most useless MS releases in years. Vista was the reason I started with Linux. I don't think it would be a good idea if Gnome released G-S, and it will end up being the default eventually, onto an established software environment that it can't "play nicely with".

#1345

k3lt01 said: Bryan, defending is admirable but I think when developers decide on a new thing they need to make sure it will work with the latest versions of the programs it will be used with. If other programs are already established it would make sense to make sure a new program isn't going to struggle because the new programs developers neglected to make it "play well" with the already established scene.

MS did the exact same thing when they developed and released Vista, it didn't work well with established programs/hardare and ended up being one of the most useless MS releases in years. Vista was the reason I started with Linux. I don't think it would be a good idea if Gnome released G-S, and it will end up being the default eventually, onto an established software environment that it can't "play nicely with".

Except for Compiz, what is not compatible with Gnome Shell? I think the Compiz issue has been discussed enough, and I've heard or noticed no other compatibility issues.

#1346

k3lt01 said: Bryan, defending is admirable but I think when developers decide on a new thing they need to make sure it will work with the latest versions of the programs it will be used with. If other programs are already established it would make sense to make sure a new program isn't going to struggle because the new programs developers neglected to make it "play well" with the already established scene.

All valid points, k3lt01; however, many of those other programs only don't "play well" because they have not evolved very much from their origins and can be antiquated in their code. The Bugatti Veyron's engine wouldn't play well with a Model-T.

MS did the exact same thing when they developed and released Vista, it didn't work well with established programs/hardare and ended up being one of the most useless MS releases in years. Vista was the reason I started with Linux. I don't think it would be a good idea if Gnome released G-S, and it will end up being the default eventually, onto an established software environment that it can't "play nicely with".

The only thing I would disagree with here is the rationale behind Vista. Releasing it when they did, Microsoft wasn't jumping the gun because they wanted to, but were under contract deadline with hardware manufacturers. Those companies made hardware up to the specs MS gave them for Vista and MS couldn't code fast enough; hence, the mistake commonly called "Vista." There is a pretty wide-spread urban legend Vista was simply the Windows 7 Beta, but I don't know how much of that I believe.

'[h2o] said: Except for Compiz, what is not compatible with Gnome Shell?

I think the Compiz issue has been discussed enough, and I've heard or noticed no other compatibility issues. It's not that Compiz isn't "compatible," more than it is unnecessary because GnomeShell handles its own compositing. I have routine issues with the tray icon for gnome-power-manager and the main program, but no one seems to know even where to begin.

#1347

k3lt01 said:

MS did the exact same thing when they developed and released Vista, it didn't work well with established programs/hardare and ended up being one of the most useless MS releases in years. Vista was the reason I started with Linux. I don't think it would be a good idea if Gnome released G-S, and it will end up being the default eventually, onto an established software environment that it can't "play nicely with".

I think Gnome/Linux is a bit different to compare against Vista, but further comparing them, when you pay money for Vista, you have just that. A product. One operating system. Vista. So when it backfires, your product (meaning one) in your eyes has failed. With Gnome, they're not killing off Gnome Panels, so the previous "product" that we all know as 2.X panels is still available. Sure, they may default it to Shell, but there's another option there. You have a choice in the matter to drop to something that's solid and has a reputation for being stable if you choose not to stick with something that's brand new. Did Microsoft release Vista with a free XP install if Vista didn't work? No, they did not. Instead they made those ******** commercials trying to defend Vista and make people think it's worth a damn.

Just remember. We have options on the table.

#1348

'[h2o] said: Except for Compiz, what is not compatible with Gnome Shell?

I think the Compiz issue has been discussed enough, and I've heard or noticed no other compatibility issues.

SingleDocumentInterface type programs that spawn a lot of windows that are not documents. -- It is not a trivial task to detect in the general case which of these windows can be considered a document and thus fit the auto-grouping algorithms designed for calculator type applications; and I doubt it is very efficient to switch in GS style between minimized toolboxes à la GIMP.

So you get a fundamental incompatibility in the accessibility field because such applications are coded for (almost: linked against) a different work flow (paradigm) than GS is.

#1349

moore.bryan said: All valid points, k3lt01; however, many of those other programs only don't "play well" because they have not evolved very much from their origins and can be antiquated in their code. What programs are you referring to?

moore.bryan said: The Bugatti Veyron's engine wouldn't play well with a Model-T. Friendly piece of advice, don't compare apples (computers) to oranges (cars) when you are discussing it with a motor mechanic, especially one who adapts driveline components (engines included) to other vehicles.

moore.bryan said: The only thing I would disagree with here is the rationale behind Vista. Releasing it when they did, Microsoft wasn't jumping the gun because they wanted to, but were under contract deadline with hardware manufacturers. Those companies made hardware up to the specs MS gave them for Vista and MS couldn't code fast enough; hence, the mistake commonly called "Vista." There is a pretty wide-spread urban legend Vista was simply the Windows 7 Beta, but I don't know how much of that I believe. Vista was released late! MS did not give many hardware manufacturers the specs and that is what caught many people unawares when they updated from XP to Vista. The hardware would not work ootb, I was one of them.

moore.bryan said: It's not that Compiz isn't "compatible," more than it is unnecessary because GnomeShell handles its own compositing. I have routine issues with the tray icon for gnome-power-manager and the main program, but no one seems to know even where to begin. Compiz is neither here nor there for me, I don't use it because it is incompatible with programs like Google Earth. I said in a post somewhere that it does nothing for my system at all so it isn't needed or wanted. Gnome-power-manager failed for me the other day after an update, I couldn't get Lucid to start in normal mode. It took a couple of hours and quite a few dpkg's in Recovery mode to get it working again. I posted in a thread that someone else had started about it.

Roasted said: I think Gnome/Linux is a bit different to compare against Vista, but further comparing them, when you pay money for Vista, you have just that. A product. One operating system. Vista. So when it backfires, your product (meaning one) in your eyes has failed. With Gnome, they're not killing off Gnome Panels, so the previous "product" that we all know as 2.X panels is still available. Sure, they may default it to Shell, but there's another option there. You have a choice in the matter to drop to something that's solid and has a reputation for being stable if you choose not to stick with something that's brand new. Did Microsoft release Vista with a free XP install if Vista didn't work? No, they did not. Instead they made those ******** commercials trying to defend Vista and make people think it's worth a damn.You have a few points in one here.

Going backwards: I never saw any commercials from MS about Vista. XP was, even up to a couple of months ago, available. Asking if they provided it for free doesn't make the argument more valid, instead it blurs the lines. I know Gnome aren't killing of 2.x for now but how long do you think they will keep it going for after G-S is released? If G-S is the success they, and I, hope it will be they will have every reason to allow 2.x to reach its end soonr rather than later. Regarding your 1st point, and this is another place where you blur the lines, regardless of whether the product is purchased (e.g. Windows) or obtained for free (Linux-Ubuntu or whatever free flavour you choose) there is disappointment when they don't work as expected. There are many posts on this forum from people who feel Ubuntu has failed because it doesn't support their hardware or do what they want. Furthermore the amount of people on this forum, newbies I admit, who want Ubuntu to be like Windows is amazing. They are disappointed in many ways as well so the belief that failure belongs to Vista alone is not correct.

Roasted said: Just remember. We have options on the table.Is this to suggest others don't have options?

#1350

k3lt01 said: What programs are you referring to?

Like I wrote, gnome-power-manager's tray icon doesn't play nice for me with either of lappies using GnomeShell. It's a "known" issue dealing with how often the icon updates...

Friendly piece of advice, don't compare apples (computers) to oranges (cars) when you are discussing it with a motor mechanic, especially one who adapts driveline components (engines included) to other vehicles.

Thanks, but I stand by the analogy because I don't feel as though two pieces of modern machinery are all that different for an informal discussion; however, if you'd be more comfortable using the Fairchild Semiconductor Corporation's first commercially available integrated circuit in a modern laptop, have at it.

Vista was released late! MS did not give many hardware manufacturers the specs and that is what caught many people unawares when they updated from XP to Vista. The hardware would not work ootb, I was one of them.

Not true. Microsoft was working *closely* with manufacturers, strong-arming hardware manufacturers and didn't live-up to their own expectations; in essence, they used Vista to buy time in development. Result: Windows 7.

#1351

k3lt01 said:

You have a few points in one here.

Going backwards: I never saw any commercials from MS about Vista. XP was, even up to a couple of months ago, available. Asking if they provided it for free doesn't make the argument more valid, instead it blurs the lines. I know Gnome aren't killing of 2.x for now but how long do you think they will keep it going for after G-S is released? If G-S is the success they, and I, hope it will be they will have every reason to allow 2.x to reach its end soonr rather than later. Regarding your 1st point, and this is another place where you blur the lines, regardless of whether the product is purchased (e.g. Windows) or obtained for free (Linux-Ubuntu or whatever free flavour you choose) there is disappointment when they don't work as expected. There are many posts on this forum from people who feel Ubuntu has failed because it doesn't support their hardware or do what they want. Furthermore the amount of people on this forum, newbies I admit, who want Ubuntu to be like Windows is amazing. They are disappointed in many ways as well so the belief that failure belongs to Vista alone is not correct.

My point wasn't anything exclusive to a paid product versus a free product. I too agree that no matter the cost, if something is presented to you in a working fashion, it's extremely disappointing when it doesn't.

But my point kind of ends there with what I said before. Vista was a radical change, something that required decent hardware spec and presented compatibility issues to the table. If Gnome was killing off panels, I could see how the argument would hold more water. But the world currently knows 2.X. If Shell fails, we would still be truckin along like we always have since that option would be present.

Is this to suggest others don't have options?

Did Microsoft give users an option at no cost had their paid option (Vista) failed? All they did was make commercials with people using a "new" OS and said "Oh my gosh it's so great!" Oh, oh it's Vista? Really? No way!

If Microsoft had sold Vista with an XP license, with the intention that "Hey, Vista is new and awesome, but here's XP if things don't work out for you" that would have been very different. Instead, they sold Vista at the usual premium price and when it failed, it pissed off a lot of people.

#1352
mahir@puccaso-dell-bnt:~$ gnome-shell --replace
    JS ERROR: !!!   Exception was: TypeError: meta is null
    JS ERROR: !!!     lineNumber = '18'
    JS ERROR: !!!     fileName = '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/environment.js'
    JS ERROR: !!!     stack = '([object _private_St_Label],[object Object])@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/environment.js:18
([object _private_St_Label],[object Object])@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/environment.js:27
()@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/overview.js:105
InfoBar()@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/overview.js:83
()@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/overview.js:197
Overview()@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/overview.js:189
start()@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/main.js:115
@<main>:1
'
    JS ERROR: !!!     message = 'meta is null'
Window manager warning: Log level 32: Execution of main.js threw exception: TypeError: meta is null

still getting this error what is wrong with my install?

#1353

moore.bryan said: Not true. Microsoft was working *closely* with manufacturers, strong-arming hardware manufacturers and didn't live-up to their own expectations; in essence, they used Vista to buy time in development. Result: Windows 7.Vista was just under 3 years late. After I bought Vista and couldn't gt things working ootb I contacted the manufacturers of my hardware they said I was on my own because MS did not give them anything to work with. I then contacted MS and asked them for help they said I was on my own cause I didn't use MS approved hardware. During 7s release MS Australia made a BIG point of tlling people MS worked with hardware manufacturers this time around so they didn't have the issue like they did with Vista.

So basically we are going to have to agree to disagree.

#1354

moore.bryan said:

Not true. Microsoft was working *closely* with manufacturers, strong-arming hardware manufacturers and didn't live-up to their own expectations; in essence, they used Vista to buy time in development. Result: Windows 7.

Considering how much time and the insane amount of money Microsoft spent trying to justify to people that Vista was not a complete flop, I can't imagine how anybody can believe that Vista was Microsoft's intentional guinea pig.

Vista was supposed to be a big thing for Microsoft. They screwed up. It flopped. It was no "until we get things right with 7" project.

#1355

moore.bryan said: Like I wrote, gnome-power-manager's tray icon doesn't play nice for me with either of lappies using GnomeShell. It's a "known" issue dealing with how often the icon updates...Bryan, read your post, you mentioned it at the end and your were not informally discussing that point with me.

moore.bryan said: Thanks, but I stand by the analogyYour welcome ;) Basically you can stand by what you want to, however it doesn't take away from the fact you are comparing apples to oranges and now you want to bring cherries into the discussion.

#1356

Could we please keep things on topic here.

#1357

k3lt01 said: I know Gnome aren't killing of 2.x for now but how long do you think they will keep it going for after G-S is released?

What does or doesn't happen with Gnome Shell is not relevant to the question of how long 2.x compatibility will be maintained.

How long 2.x compatibility is maintained is not relevant to the survival of Metacity. As long as there are people willing to maintain it and people willing to package it for distributions, it will survive.

Since Mutter will be the same to most people as using Metacity there could be a question from that standpoint on how long it makes sense to maintain two versions of something that are more or less the same thing. And that sounds like the current line of thinking so there are no guarantees about it surviving long term if nobody new steps in to help maintain it or take over the maintenance, but for the short term it should at least be kept up to date with Gnome 3, from the standpoint of not using deprecated stuff.

Later, Seeker

#1358

Window manager warning: Log level 16: Could not load library [/usr/lib/mutter/plugins/libgnome-shell.so (/usr/lib/mutter/plugins/libgnome-shell.so: undefined symbol: gjs_context_get_native_context)]

Window manager warning: Log level 8: failed to load plugins

installed from the ppa...... this is been too long........

#1359

Gnome shell wont work on my Debian Sid laptop. I will debug it later, since Mutter actually works, just not shell.

#1360

NightwishFan said: Gnome shell wont work on my Debian Sid laptop. I will debug it later, since Mutter actually works, just not shell.

I'm using it on the latest Debian testing, and it works great (at least as good as on Lucid).

#1361

It tells me something about mesa being 2.29 but 2.28 is in use or vice versa. The process "runs" but no shell. I did mutter --replace, and it worked perfectly. I will wait for the next update, if it does not work, then I will try to debug it. Might be something I did, since I am a newbie to Debian sid. (Which is awesome btw)

#1362

Tried to install Gnome-Shell using Apt-get but there was a dependency problem involving libgjs0 , which wouldn't install as xulrunner's version was too great.

So, was able to download libgjs0_0.5-1_amd64.deb from packages.debian.org This required libmozjs2d_1.9.1.8-4_amd64.deb , which I also downloaded

After that, apt-get gnome-shell installed just fine.

I guess I'll have a play around with it before checking the PPA out.

#1363

NightwishFan said: It tells me something about mesa being 2.29 but 2.28 is in use or vice versa. The process "runs" but no shell. I did mutter --replace, and it worked perfectly. I will wait for the next update, if it does not work, then I will try to debug it. Might be something I did, since I am a newbie to Debian sid. (Which is awesome btw)

I'm not brave enough to use Sid. It's likely that Sid's packages will have dependency problems from time to time due to being an unstable release. Unless you can use packages from elsewhere such as Squeeze, you'll have to wait for them to level out.

#1364

wow this thread is HUGE, been using gnome-shell for 3 weeks straight and i like it more than regular gnome. it takes a little getting use to but i feel more productive using it. i just wish i could use a few panel applets from the old gnome such as the weather applet. anyhow i didn't come here to rave about gs only

i just did a update from ricotz's ppa and now my notification doesnt work. i just want to see if im the only one or is this happening with others.

#1365

saturnblackhole said: i just did a update from ricotz's ppa and now my notification doesnt work. i just want to see if im the only one or is this happening with others.

I built mine from source, and have the same problem.

#1366

cariboo907 said: Could we please keep things on topic here.

I'll second that request.

This thread has been getting rather "chatty". Let's focus on testing and debugging GNOME Shell, reporting bugs and the overall development discourse; rants, likes and dislikes, and other general discussion could go to Community Cafe (there are many similar GS threads there already).

#1367

Just this morning I tried to install gnome-shell, just wrote sudo apt-get install gnome-shell and then gnome-shell --replace. Worked like a sharm. Loved it!

Started to get more intrested in it and found that it was a PPA, maybe more stable I though... But no, I couldnt get it to run. Uninstalled it, removed the PPA and tried to install the old one from repos, and now it doesnt work at all.

$ gnome-shell --replace
      JS LOG: conforming method: IntrospectRemote for org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable
    JS ERROR: !!!   Exception was: Error: Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded
    JS ERROR: !!!     lineNumber = '0'
    JS ERROR: !!!     fileName = 'gjs_throw'
    JS ERROR: !!!     stack = 'Error("Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded")@:0
("Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded")@gjs_throw:0
@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/main.js:11
'
    JS ERROR: !!!     message = 'Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded'
    JS ERROR: !!!   Exception was: Error: Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded
    JS ERROR: !!!     lineNumber = '0'
    JS ERROR: !!!     fileName = 'gjs_throw'
    JS ERROR: !!!     stack = 'Error("Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded")@:0
("Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded")@gjs_throw:0
@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/main.js:11
'
    JS ERROR: !!!     message = 'Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded'
Fönsterhanterarvarning: Log level 32: Execution of main.js threw exception: Error: Requiring Shell, version none: Requiring namespace 'Meta' version '2.28', but '2.29' is already loaded
qetuR@qetuR-laptop:~$ Cannot register the panel shell: there is already one running.
Fönsterhanterarvarning: Received a _NET_WM_MOVERESIZE message for 0x3e00034 (Ny flik - ); these messages lack timestamps and therefore suck.

What could be wrong?

#1368

cariboo907 said: Could we please keep things on topic here.

23meg said: I'll second that request.

This thread has been getting rather "chatty". Let's focus on testing and debugging GNOME Shell, reporting bugs and the overall development discourse; rants, likes and dislikes, and other general discussion could go to Community Cafe (there are many similar GS threads there already). Done. Thanks, guys.

#1369

i third the request

so can someone help me with this problem (i know its a double post, sorry)

mahir@puccaso-dell-bnt:~$ gnome-shell --replace
    JS ERROR: !!!   Exception was: TypeError: meta is null
    JS ERROR: !!!     lineNumber = '18'
    JS ERROR: !!!     fileName = '/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/environment.js'
    JS ERROR: !!!     stack = '([object _private_St_Label],[object Object])@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/environment.js:18
([object _private_St_Label],[object Object])@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/environment.js:27
()@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/overview.js:105
InfoBar()@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/overview.js:83
()@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/overview.js:197
Overview()@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/overview.js:189
start()@/usr/share/gnome-shell/js/ui/main.js:115
@<main>:1
'
    JS ERROR: !!!     message = 'meta is null'
Window manager warning: Log level 32: Execution of main.js threw exception: TypeError: meta is null
#1370

How do I get Gnome Shell by default, or as an option in the login screen?

I can replace it temporarily, but would be interested in using it more permenantly for a bit.

#1371

There is a gnome3 package on Debian, but I do not think on Ubuntu. It was said how to manually add it as the default session, but it is a pain to remove.

You can do a happy middle ground by adding gnome-shell --replace to System -> Preferences -> Startup Applications

Just delete the custom gnome shell entry in there to revert back to normal gnome. To close gnomeshell while running, press alt+f2 and type debugexit.

#1372

Thanks, that's a good plan.

#1373

magneze said: How do I get Gnome Shell by default, or as an option in the login screen?

I can replace it temporarily, but would be interested in using it more permenantly for a bit.

For most window manager I expect to be able to create a .xsession file in my home directory with some text like:

export WINDOW_MANAGER="/path/to/gnome-shell"
exec gnome-session

Then choose the default session from the login screen.

The last time I looked the default session didn't seem to be there in GDM, but I did find some instructions that while not seeming quite correct, are close enough to make me think this should work......

Create a file in '/usr/share/xsessions' named default.desktop and open it for editing:

sudo touch /usr/share/xsessions
gksudo gedit /usr/share/xsessions

Enter this text:

[Desktop Entry]
Name=Default Xsession
Comment=This runs ~/.xsession
Exec=/etc/X11/Xsession

Save it.

The next time you log in you should have an entry named 'Default Xsession' that will run what you specify in your .xsession file.

And choosing the normal Gnome session should run the normal Gnome enviroment.

I did also see another posting indicating you could create a file name .xprofile in your home directory and set the WINDOW_MANAGER variable there.

I prefer setting the WINDOW_MANAGER variable because the same method also works with KDE if you want to use something other than Kwin.

Later, Seeker

#1374

Best thing about gnome shell is the compositing has freakin vsync that WORKS. Compiz still hasnt managed to figure out that a 3d window manager that tears is retarded.

#1375

saturnblackhole said: wow this thread is HUGE, been using gnome-shell for 3 weeks straight and i like it more than regular gnome. it takes a little getting use to but i feel more productive using it. i just wish i could use a few panel applets from the old gnome such as the weather applet. anyhow i didn't come here to rave about gs only

i just did a update from ricotz's ppa and now my notification doesnt work. i just want to see if im the only one or is this happening with others.

Im having the same prob. Was working and now is not. Assuming it will be fixed in the next release or two, Ill bring it to their attention on IRC tho. I also had a hard time getting used to it, but once i did have been loving it ever since. Even in its unfinished state, with features missing, Im using it 95 percent of the time

#1376

I like to hear this kind of thing. I do not like to use it that much. There is too little real functionality for what I do.

I can see that it may get there, but it isn't, for me, yet. I sure hope it does.

#1377

fanum said: Im having the same prob. Was working and now is not. Assuming it will be fixed in the next release or two, Ill bring it to their attention on IRC tho. I also had a hard time getting used to it, but once i did have been loving it ever since. Even in its unfinished state, with features missing, Im using it 95 percent of the time

the latest update seems to fix it but my mouse still disappears when i move to on the black bar or the menu side control.

i would like to provide detail logs on the bugs, what command do you do type to provide it? i see a few in this thread.

#1378

saturnblackhole said: i just did a update from ricotz's ppa and now my notification doesnt work. i just want to see if im the only one or is this happening with others.

They're working again. (Compiled from source)

#1379

thanks, i just make gnome shell my native interface (it automatically starts after login). i used these commands

manoriax said: To make it run natively you have to open a terminal and write:

sudo update-alternatives --config x-window-manager
sudo cp /usr/share/applications/gnome-shell.desktop /etc/xdg/autostart

but now my mouse disappears when i hover it over the black bar or the application menu. i have to press alt+f2 and type restart to fix it. is there a way to fix it? the commands that the guy posted said to select mutter but doesn't that already start when gnome shell is opened? so maybe i should go back select metacity? i'll try it and see what happens, if anyone knows how to solve this feel free to comment

#1380

I fixed the shell in Debian. You have to downgrade and lock gir1.0-mutter to testing. It runs perfectly.

#1381

saturnblackhole said: thanks, i just make gnome shell my native interface (it automatically starts after login). i used these commands

but now my mouse disappears when i hover it over the black bar or the application menu. i have to press alt+f2 and type restart to fix it. is there a way to fix it? the commands that the guy posted said to select mutter but doesn't that already start when gnome shell is opened? so maybe i should go back select metacity? i'll try it and see what happens, if anyone knows how to solve this feel free to comment

This method causes way too much interference with your default system and is clearly overkill for someone new. Forget it. Undo any changes made and just make a simple script like this in an empty file:

#!/bin/sh

~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src/gnome-shell --replace

name it something obvious like "shell" and put it in /usr/local/bin. add chmod +x to it in terminal, restart your session and add the command to your startup applications.

#1382

augias said: This method causes way too much interference with your default system and is clearly overkill for someone new. Forget it. Undo any changes made and just make a simple script like this in an empty file:

name it something obvious like "shell" and put it in /usr/local/bin. add chmod +x to it in terminal, restart your session and add the command to your startup applications.

how do i add chmod +x to something? also how does this perform? at first i added gnome-shell --replace to startup applications and eventually changed it because when i logged in there was an awkward 10secs between the old gnome interface and gnome shell being started. the method im using now it goes straight from log-in animation to gnome-shell.

#1383

saturnblackhole said: how do i add chmod +x to something? also how does this perform? at first i added gnome-shell --replace to startup applications and eventually changed it because when i logged in there was an awkward 10secs between the old gnome interface and gnome shell being started. the method im using now it goes straight from log-in animation to gnome-shell.

In terminal type chmod +x 'filename' (without the quotes). It is just [COLOR=Red]ch[/COLOR]anging the [COLOR=Red]mod[/COLOR]e of the file to make it executible

#1384

saturnblackhole said: how do i add chmod +x to something? also how does this perform? at first i added gnome-shell --replace to startup applications and eventually changed it because when i logged in there was an awkward 10secs between the old gnome interface and gnome shell being started. the method im using now it goes straight from log-in animation to gnome-shell.

Yeah, I just learned to live with those few extra seconds. How many times do you have to boot up each day anyways, would be my response.

as for your question. if you created the file "shell" in that directory then do: ``` cd /usr/local/bin sudo chmod +x shell


edit: _this recommendation of mine is only for those who've built gnome-shell from source with jhbuild!_
#1385

Shell's working great (ricotz ppa) in Karmic, but in Lucid the indicator applet doesn't show up (the notification area does), and that's where the volume icon has been moved to. I have an ati HD 3650 gpu, could that be the problem?

#1386

Perhaps someone could port this package to Ubuntu Lucid or a PPA? http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gnome3-session

#1387

Tried the .xprofile thing, it works.

Create a file '~/.xprofile' then add the text:

export WINDOW_MANAGER=/usr/bin/gnome-shell

Log out, log in, done.

If you have a problem, log out, reboot, whatever you gotta do, log in at the command line, rename .xprofile, switch back the the display manager, log in, done.

Performance sucked for me, but in my Ubuntu install where I tried it, it may be because I have both AWN and Docky running, but using mutter as the window manager with both of them running performance is fine.

On my other machine in Debian performance sucks with Mutter and Gnome-shell both, even though performance seems OK in Metacity with compositing enabled and in Compiz.

ATI R420 in the first case, RV770 in the second, the X.org/Mesa radeon driver in both cases.

Later, Seeker

#1388

seeker5528 said: Tried the .xprofile thing, it works.

Create a file '~/.xprofile' then add the text:

export WINDOW_MANAGER=/usr/bin/gnome-shell

If you have a problem, log out, reboot, whatever you gotta do, log in at the command line, rename .xprofile, switch back the the display manager, log in, done.

Performance sucked for me, but in my Ubuntu install where I tried it, it may be because I have both AWN and Docky running, but using mutter as the window manager with both of them running performance is fine.

On my other machine in Debian performance sucks with Mutter and Gnome-shell both, even though performance seems OK in Metacity with compositing enabled and in Compiz.

ATI R420 in the first case, RV770 in the second, the X.org/Mesa radeon driver in both cases.

Later, SeekerWorks for me, thanks. Gnome Shell is a big step forward IMO.

#1389

NightwishFan said: Perhaps someone could port this package to Ubuntu Lucid or a PPA?

http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gnome3-session What does this package add? I don't dare to install it

#1390

Tompalaz said: What does this package add?

I don't dare to install it

I think it's supposed to add an indicator applet to the gnome-shell panel. The notification area works in shell, but in Lucid all the notification icons have moved (volume, Rhythmbox) to the indicator applet, so while shell works great (for me) in Lucid, not having my notifications (indications now I guess) using shell gets a bit counterintuitive.

I tried to install it but couldn't because it depends on an older version of gnome-session-bin, so I'm not really sure if I'm right about what it does.

#1391

No, it is a Debian package not an Ubuntu one. It adds Gnome3 to GDM/KDM so you can just choose that to log into the Gnome Shell. I have that set as default since Intel plays very nice with the shell. My laptop does not seem to have less battery either. (Indicator applets are an insanity, and part of the reason I left Ubuntu)

I am unsure if this will work with Ubuntu, which is why I asked if anyone can port this to a PPA. I lack the knowledge myself. If it is a much desired feature, perhaps add on brainstorm or email the guy in charge of the ricotz ppa and perhaps ask him to add it.

#1392

NightwishFan said: No, it is a Debian package not an Ubuntu one. It adds Gnome3 to GDM/KDM so you can just choose that to log into the Gnome Shell. I have that set as default since Intel plays very nice with the shell. My laptop does not seem to have less battery either. (Indicator applets are an insanity, and part of the reason I left Ubuntu)

I am unsure if this will work with Ubuntu, which is why I asked if anyone can port this to a PPA. I lack the knowledge myself. If it is a much desired feature, perhaps add on brainstorm or email the guy in charge of the ricotz ppa and perhaps ask him to add it.

Thanks for clearing at up I'm gonna have to agree with you about indicators being insanity.

#1393

They now require clutter 1.2, since that upgrade my shell won't work.

From email list: (important part)

I've now landed patches in gnome-shell and Mutter to support and require

the recently released Clutter 1.2 version. Some notes:

* If you are using the build instructions from live.gnome.org/GnomeShell, then there are some issues in switching to the correct branch of Clutter. (*) The recommended procedure for updating:

# Remove the old Clutter checkout rm -rf ~/gnome-shell/source/clutter # Build all modules from scratch jhbuild build -afc

(*) jhbuild doesn't handle the branch switch perfectly, and there are

some leftover stale files in the build tree that can cause problems.

Anyone with same problem?

Edit: I have tried removing that folder, that didn't work. I removed the whole gnome-shell folder. Gnome-Shell start but only use 25% of the screen. Rest of the screen is just background image.

#1394

I redid it building from source, had to run jhbuild build -f -a -c after deleting ~/gnome-shell/source/clutter

It gave an error on one of the steps, but I just told it to re-run the step and it was fine.

#1395

This is what I get when I run GS

tomas@tomas-laptop:~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src$ ./gnome-shell --replace

JS LOG: GNOME Shell started at Fri Mar 12 2010 09:28:01 GMT+0100 (CET)

(mutter:32457): Clutter-WARNING **: The actor 'panel' is currently inside an allocation cycle; calling clutter_actor_queue_relayout() is not recommended

(mutter:32457): Clutter-WARNING **: The actor 'ClutterGroup' is currently inside an allocation cycle; calling clutter_actor_queue_relayout() is not recommended JS LOG: Failed to acquire org.freedesktop.Notifications; trying again

(ck-history:32473): WARNING : Unable to parse session removed event: seat-id='Seat1' session-id='Session7' session-type='' session-x11-display='' session-x11-display-device='' session-display-device='/dev/???' session-remote-host-name='' session-is-local=TRUE session-unix-user=1000 session-creation1268149674.316 type=SEAT_ADDED : seat-id='Seat1' seat-kind=0

^CShell killed with signal 2 tomas@tomas-laptop:~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src$ (gnome-panel:32478): DEBUG: Initialized Panel Applet Signaler. (gnome-panel:32478): DEBUG: Adding applet 0. (gnome-panel:32478): DEBUG: Adding applet 1. (gnome-panel:32478): DEBUG: Adding applet 2. (gnome-panel:32478): DEBUG: Adding applet 3. (gnome-panel:32478): DEBUG: Adding applet 4. compiz (cube) - Warn: Failed to load slide: /usr/share/gdm/themes/Human/ubuntu.png

#1396

I removed my git build and started using the PPA method. Everything worked until today. I got an update and now I'm in the same spot. It won't work.

#1397

Is there any way to change the way the applications are presented to me in overlay mode to the way it used to be? I preferred the up/down scrolling list as opposed to the 5x5 grid that we see now...

#1398

Techno-Mole has worked out a fair portion of the css so he would probably be the person to answer that. I'd also like to know if we can make it show all the available applications. New users won't know what the apps are called to use the search function so it would be useful for them and the lazy, like me, among us if all apps were listed.

#1399

Roasted said: Is there any way to change the way the applications are presented to me in overlay mode to the way it used to be? I preferred the up/down scrolling list as opposed to the 5x5 grid that we see now...

I would like to know this too.

I can actually read. The current drop down menu on the panel is great.

Why change it? Are we going for the folks that work in fast food places with pictures on the register because they are to dumb to be able to run it otherwise?

That ugly grid also covers a lot of space. This is just silly.

It may be very good for illiterate 4 year olds, I really should admit that.

#1400

The app launcher is one of the things they should work on. Make it slightly more apparent at first glance how to activate it, and make it much more efficient to see what i have installed.

So far though I like the shell much more than kde4. It sort of feels like your being treated special similar to say owning a mac, I hope they pull it off and dont blunder it.

#1401

NightwishFan said: The app launcher is one of the things they should work on. Make it slightly more apparent at first glance how to activate it, and make it much more efficient to see what i have installed.

So far though I like the shell much more than kde4. It sort of feels like your being treated special similar to say owning a mac, I hope they pull it off and dont blunder it.

Shell is way more original than the standard Linux desktop offerings, it adds a bit of uniqueness to Linux that's neither Windows(KDE) or OS X(Lucid Lynx).

Pulled off correctly it'll be a recognizable trait associated with Linux, the way the global menu, doc, and left sided buttons are with OS X.

It's functional advancements are it's "find anything, see everything" nature. I only wish you could "hatch" the shell allowing the windows to maximize over the top panel.

#1402

ranch hand said: It may be very good for illiterate 4 year olds, I really should admit that.And this is why they should offer a choice. In some situations the current grid setup is a good thing (such as young kids in a school classroom) while in others it is just ..... :-s

#1403

I agree. Much <3 to the KDE folks, but Shell is doing something remarkable here that I think will take off.

Seeing how stable Shell is now, I'm sure by release (and the months following its initial release) it'll be pretty robust. I'm confident now that I've seen it grow and mature in the last couple months.

I'm sure more options will come about too, but I'd still like to iterate a couple things I'd like to see:

The big thing I'd like to see is the overlay to only show my primary background. When I activate the overlay, since I'm on a dual screen desktop, I see my 19 + 24 inch backgrounds, which is very wide. Showing 4 desktops with this wide workspace is... blah. It'd be nice for it to JUST show the primary monitor's background, so it's more proportioned to the screen.

I'd also like to see where this notification system is going... I find myself very hesitant to let go of my dock... we'll see where it goes yet...

I'm also waiting to see when they'll add the "wall" that they were going to add by the Activities button. Being that I'm on dual monitors with my secondary monitor on my left, it's kind of blah to hot corner since I can't just BLAM clock my mouse to the corner since it travels to the next monitor. I was told this would be added, so that way there's a very short wall there so it would allow users to hot corner accordingly.

And of course, what I mentioned before with the menu. One list, single file, with vertical scroll. Grids are yuckers.

#1404

k3lt01 said: And this is why they should offer a choice. In some situations the current grid setup is a good thing (such as young kids in a school classroom) while in others it is just ..... :-s

I'm sure we will have choice. But right now I doubt they want to add too much too fast. However, I'd rather have the old way than the grid by default... I can't imagine the grid was an overwelming positive response for them to stick with it...

#1405

I heard they planned to replace nautilus as the desktop manager, which seems like a good idea. It means nautilus no longer is a direct dependency of using gnome interface. It is still the filemanager though, not trying to spread that idea. Just something more designed directly as a desktop will be the default perhaps.

#1406

Roasted, I know they don't want to and can't add to much to quickly because these things need to be tested. I'm just doing my bit to keep it in their minds that we the end users want choice so G-S can be what each person wants it to be.

#1407

NightwishFan said: I heard they planned to replace nautilus as the desktop manager, which seems like a good idea. It means nautilus no longer is a direct dependency of using gnome interface.

...

nautilus
  Reverse Depends: brdesktop-gnome (0.5ubuntu1)
  Reverse Depends: furiusisomount (0.11.1.1-0ubuntu2)
  Reverse Depends: gnome-core (>= 1:2.22.2~4ubuntu8)
  Reverse Depends: gnome-session (2.28.0-0ubuntu5)
  Reverse Depends: nautilus-cd-burner (2.25.3-0ubuntu3)
  Reverse Depends: nautilus-dbg (= 1:2.28.1-0ubuntu1)
  Reverse Depends: nautilus-image-converter (>= 0.3.0-2build1)
  Reverse Depends: nautilus-share (>= 0.7.2-12)
  Reverse Depends: phatch-nautilus (0.2.4-1)
  Reverse Depends: rapache (0.7-0ubuntu5)
  Reverse Depends: ubuntu-desktop (1.175)
  Reverse Depends: ubuntu-netbook-remix (1.171)
  Reverse Depends: ubuntustudio-desktop (0.64)

All of those packages depend on nautilus. So, if you want to have a proper gnome desktop (which requires gnome-session) you WILL need nautilus.

#1408

Psumi said: ...

nautilus
  Reverse Depends: brdesktop-gnome (0.5ubuntu1)
  Reverse Depends: furiusisomount (0.11.1.1-0ubuntu2)
  Reverse Depends: gnome-core (>= 1:2.22.2~4ubuntu8)
  Reverse Depends: gnome-session (2.28.0-0ubuntu5)
  Reverse Depends: nautilus-cd-burner (2.25.3-0ubuntu3)
  Reverse Depends: nautilus-dbg (= 1:2.28.1-0ubuntu1)
  Reverse Depends: nautilus-image-converter (>= 0.3.0-2build1)
  Reverse Depends: nautilus-share (>= 0.7.2-12)
  Reverse Depends: phatch-nautilus (0.2.4-1)
  Reverse Depends: rapache (0.7-0ubuntu5)
  Reverse Depends: ubuntu-desktop (1.175)
  Reverse Depends: ubuntu-netbook-remix (1.171)
  Reverse Depends: ubuntustudio-desktop (0.64)

All of those packages depend on nautilus. So, if you want to have a proper gnome desktop (which requires gnome-session) you WILL need nautilus.This is right now, Nightwish is talking about the future. They can change dependencies to accommodate such a change.

#1409

k3lt01 said: This is right now, Nightwish is talking about the future. They can change dependencies to accommodate such a change.

Lucid's gnome-session requires it too. How far in the future are we talking about?

#1410

I do not use Ubuntu, and considering Gnome3 is not even out yet, those dependencies will likely be irrelevant. Actually I like and use Nautilus, though some may like gnome but prefer to use an alternative like Thunar, but Nautilus is always running anyway.

This post sums it up; http://mail.gnome.org/archives/nautilus-list/2009-December/msg00001.html

#1411

Psumi said: Lucid's gnome-session requires it too. How far in the future are we talking about?Lucid's default is Gnome 2.x that is why it requires it.

3.x is a different beast altogether as we are finding out because many 2.x things do not work with 3.x and it is possible, although not definite, that 2.x items will not be added to 3.x.

So if and when 2.x is not required in an installation by default its is likely that the dependencies required by 2.x will no longer be installed IF 3.x is the only version installed.

#1412

Madspyman said: Shell is way more original than the standard Linux desktop offerings, it adds a bit of uniqueness to Linux that's neither Windows(KDE) or OS X(Lucid Lynx).

Pulled off correctly it'll be a recognizable trait associated with Linux, the way the global menu, doc, and left sided buttons are with OS X.

It's functional advancements are it's "find anything, see everything" nature. I only wish you could "hatch" the shell allowing the windows to maximize over the top panel.

Huh. Weren't they supposed to place a global menu on that top panel part too? In Gnome-shell, I mean.

#1413

Does anyone know if we have the extension system working? And it lives on the sidebar or on the panel?

I'm guessing we should take a more hands-on approach whenever possible, at least show a working version of what we want.

#1414

the yawner said: Huh. Weren't they supposed to place a global menu on that top panel part too? In Gnome-shell, I mean.

AFAIK, yes. It's still a very original interface though.

#1415

the yawner said: Huh. Weren't they supposed to place a global menu on that top panel part too? In Gnome-shell, I mean.

Nope, never heard that, and I've been following G-S for about a year now. Can you point to some sources? If you got the idea from Seth Nickel's pooper mockups, he's not a gnome shell designer.

#1416

i have to say that compiling from source takes a really long time at least the jhbuild build command.

how can i use mutter in gnome-shell?

#1417

aviramof said:

how can i use mutter in gnome-shell?

when using gnome-shell, you *are* using mutter. you can’t use g-s without mutter.

#1418

and where is the similerity to compiz?and by the way where is the recycle bin?

#1419

aviramof said: and where is the similerity to compiz?

They're both window managers that do compositing as well. There's not supposed to be a similarity beyond that.

#1420

does mutter have plugins?

#1421

aviramof said: does mutter have plugins?

Yes; GNOME Shell itself is a Mutter plugin, though that will probably change in the future.

There aren't any other functional Mutter plugins right now, to the best of my knowledge, and the plugin infrastructure is undocumented. If you're looking for Compiz-like plugins, they don't exist.

#1422

i see thank you for your help let's hope it would change in the future.

#1423
#1424

NightwishFan said: I do not use Ubuntu, and considering Gnome3 is not even out yet, those dependencies will likely be irrelevant. Actually I like and use Nautilus, though some may like gnome but prefer to use an alternative like Thunar, but Nautilus is always running anyway.

This post sums it up; http://mail.gnome.org/archives/nautilus-list/2009-December/msg00001.html Thank you very much for that link. It is very interesting.

If they implement some of those things GS could actually work in a decent manner.

#1425

I think so as well, that is why I am keeping up with the development on it. Since now I have an Intel card I can use the shell full time. I do not even seem to have a loss when playing opengl games on it. (Though drawing GTK is immensely slower to the point that is is embarrassing). Hopefully that will change.

#1426

Tompalaz said: this is what gnome-shell looks like to me:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/mTwyG8AjvaWuCczBujHfkw?feat=directlink

That's nice.

#1427

augias said: That's nice.

Doesn't matter if I use the PPA or git.

#1428

Tompalaz said: Doesn't matter if I use the PPA or git.

Do you think it's because of this: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell-list/2010-March/msg00038.html

#1429

augias said: Do you think it's because of this: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell-list/2010-March/msg00038.html

Yes, probably. It haven't worked since the update to clutter 1.2

I have already tried

Remove the old Clutter checkout

rm -rf ~/gnome-shell/source/clutter

Build all modules from scratch

jhbuild build -afc

#1430

aviramof said: and by the way where is the recycle bin?Go to your home folder and in th lft pane of Nautilus you will see your places listed along with the recycle bin.

#1431

Also curious on where the search for files option is that was previously under "Places"....

#1432

It is actually a program called gnome-search-tool. It should show up in the results if you search for it, then just add to favourites. I am assuming they have something better planned for it when it is released.

#1433

Tompalaz said: Yes, probably.

It haven't worked since the update to clutter 1.2

I have already tried

Do you think it might be worth reinstall lucid?

#1434

I have just upgraded to Karmic to test this and man it's really cool (the feeling doesn't get trough the screenshots) I wasn't using the absolute latest I just apt-got it but apart from a couple of minor features(I couldn't find the settings and administration stuff :| ) I really liked the whole experience: it's flashy, intuitive and it improves productivity.

#1435

rottentree said: I have just upgraded to Karmic to test this and man it's really cool (the feeling doesn't get trough the screenshots) I wasn't using the absolute latest I just apt-got it but apart from a couple of minor features(I couldn't find the settings and administration stuff :| ) I really liked the whole experience: it's flashy, intuitive and it improves productivity.

I agree. I feel as though Gnome Shell provides Gnome/Linux users with an extremely unique user interface. I LOVE Gnome Shell on my laptop. There's a few things I'd like to see refined for dual screen users, but I'm sure it'll get there.

#1436

My problem seemed to be related to nouveau driver. It works now with nvidia-current, but geez what a difference in speed. Nouveau was lightspeed compared to this...

#1437

You lovely people building from source ought to go check out the latest master commits. They allow you to drag windows in linear view to other desktops (finally). Now they just need to implement the patch to drag and flick to change workspaces! :popcorn:

#1438

I'm just curious, how is the optimization of gnome-shell coming along? I know they've been gradually adding features and smoothing out bugs, but when I used it it wasn't terribly slow but it was noticeably more sluggish than compiz. Can anyone with an integrated graphics card comment on how the two stack up now? I'm assuming real graphics cards can handle both just fine.

#1439

I'm still in the middle as to whether I like GnomeShell or not... I like the idea/concept.... But I hate the look.... I really hope they theme it up and make it look really nice by default, its horrible in its current state... I really like this mockup

http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/New+GNOME+3+Shell+concept?content=105672

Also, I really hope they either somehow make gnomeshell compatible with Compiz.... (probly won't happen) Or Atleast add Most of the useful Compiz effects into GnomeShell so that we don't have to lose our beloved effects :(

#1440

symon1980 said: I'm still in the middle as to whether I like GnomeShell or not... I like the idea/concept.... But I hate the look.... I really hope they theme it up and make it look really nice by default, its horrible in its current state... I really like this mockup

http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/New+GNOME+3+Shell+concept?content=105672

Also, I really hope they either somehow make gnomeshell compatible with Compiz.... (probly won't happen) Or Atleast add Most of the useful Compiz effects into GnomeShell so that we don't have to lose our beloved effects :( I am not trying to stir things up. I really want to know.

What useful Compiz effects?

#1441

symon1980 said: I'm still in the middle as to whether I like GnomeShell or not... I like the idea/concept.... But I hate the look.... I really hope they theme it up and make it look really nice by default, its horrible in its current state... I really like this mockup

http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/New+GNOME+3+Shell+concept?content=105672

Also, I really hope they either somehow make gnomeshell compatible with Compiz.... (probly won't happen) Or Atleast add Most of the useful Compiz effects into GnomeShell so that we don't have to lose our beloved effects :(

I found out something can also be gained from GS: RGBA!

Open /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme/gnome-shell.css, go to the block labeled "Panel", and just before the closing brace, type in:

background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0.5);

What you will see when you restart GNOME Shell is a transparent panel. Of course, it isn't perfect: it turns opaque when the overview is activated, but it is transparent otherwise.

#1442

I was poking around the Gnome Shell IRC chat and the developers said they plan to make some hefty changes to how things appear in overlay mode. I'm sure there's a lot they want to do yet. We just need to be patient and see what the updates bring. :)

#1443

Roasted said: I was poking around the Gnome Shell IRC chat and the developers said they plan to make some hefty changes to how things appear in overlay mode. I'm sure there's a lot they want to do yet. We just need to be patient and see what the updates bring. :)

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=8980121&postcount=1442

#1444
#1445

The wiki page for the development release (2.31) that will become GNOME 3.0 already exists:

http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointThirtyone

GNOME Shell will become stable once this dev release becomes GNOME 3.

#1446

ranch hand said: I am not trying to stir things up. I really want to know.

What useful Compiz effects?

From the top of my head scale, expose,zoom, window tabbing, window preview, desktop table, widget layer, darken inactive windows might find some users useful. I couldn't live without scale for example (not the way it is currently implemented in GS)

#1447

godhika said: From the top of my head scale, expose,zoom, window tabbing, window preview, desktop table, widget layer, darken inactive windows might find some users useful. I couldn't live without scale for example (not the way it is currently implemented in GS)

Actually, there is a Scale - in the overview. The windows are laid out in a similar way, with similar labeling (which some might say is like OS X's Expose).

As far as window preview and window tabbing? Alt+Tab, all the way. It is in some ways superior, being much like Windows 7's Aero Peek, unlike Compiz's method, which is more like Vista.

Widget layer may be Compiz-specific. On second thought, not so much: Clutter has similar features that can be exploited in GNOME Shell.

As far as window darkening? RGBA-ing inactive windows in a theme will give a similar effect.

#1448

Well I didn't say that GS doesn't have comparable features. Actually I like its Alt+Tab a lot. With window tabbing, I mean this plugin http://wiki.compiz.org/Plugins/Group

#1449

I added the ricotz ppa and install gnome-shell

In my setup a have 2 separate video cards

In my first vga a have 2 monitors in twinview In my second vga i have 1 monitor in separate x screen

I have disable compiz and when i try to

gnome-shell --replace

gnome-shell doesn't load

In the attachments you can see my xorg.conf and the error that i am getting.

#1450

godhika said: From the top of my head scale, expose,zoom, window tabbing, window preview, desktop table, widget layer, darken inactive windows might find some users useful. I couldn't live without scale for example (not the way it is currently implemented in GS)

Ah, thanks for that. Always wondered what folks actually used on there.

#1451

I can't offer any suggestive help with your loading issue with Gnome Shell, but I noticed on my desktop I often have to initiate gnome-shell --replace twice. The first time it tanks but I know Compiz gets shut off, because Docky comes up with an error that there's no active compositing manager or whatever. Then I run that command again (thankfully I have F3 bound to open a terminal since my panel gets lost when it crashes) and it'll bring up shell accordingly.

#1452

Just got one question... could I disable gnome shell in the future and use metacity and gnome-panel instead? If not... well I'm new to linux and I am amazed. I first looked at it 6 months ago and by now I got only ubuntu karmic on my laptop which I use everyday at work as sales manager and at home. It's fast, simple, free and looks neat.

If gnome shell will be something in the future that I can't avoid, I guess my next step would be investing money in mac :(

Gnome shell imo is something that has been done for the sake that it looks effective. If you consider the clicks and mouse mileage that needs to be done to open up app then it's 2-3 times the extra work. Right now I could click on my docky launcher and voila, I'll be in Firefox. But Clicking on activites, having all this information on screen and either dragging or finding an app like in windows... And what are the gains? Desktop room worth of gnome-panel?

Just plzzz... make this optional (if it isn't already planned that way). Compiz has scaling, why the hell I would need the god damn gnome shell? So gnome would be more like KDE and Windows & would eat up more resources?

Plzzz somebody explain me the upsides of this and what are the gains out of this.

#1453

tipsic, I was a little wary of it at first even though I have always liked the overall look of it. I have to say for me on my desktop it is just as fast as the regular 2.x (Gnome-panel) desktop to work with. It took a little getting used to as new things always do but it wasn't a chore to learn how to use. Because I was able to adapt to it relatively quickly it is now my default on my desktop.

My laptop however is another matter. While it will run, in Lucid and Karmic, it is slow and not as effective as 2.x.

Apart from that I have very few issues with it and look forward to seeing a stable product. Now with regards to 2.x, Gnome have stated they will keep it going so there is no need to fret. There is also no need to go Mac either as there are other desktop environments available for Ubuntu.

#1454

tipsic You should also remember that Gnome is not the only Desktop environment out there. Xfce (Xubuntu), Lxde (Lubuntu) and KDE (Kubuntu) are some of them. There are several more, but these are the most popular.

Also, the current version of gnome will be around for some time anyway.

#1455

First of all Ubuntu is the best candidate to bring over Windows and OSX users. Ubuntu is the best just because basically you don't have to use terminal to get things done and all the support. Now you guys saying that I could always use another desktop is kinda the wrong attitude. It should be simple and user-friendly and users should'nt start hacking for the sake of making things more user friendly. It's like buying a brand new S class Mercedes with two extra wheels under it and the dealer recommends that man you can take them off any time you like.

And I guess Gnome Shell devs. haven't heard anything about ergonomics. It might look cool on youtube and b class hollywood movies with Dolph Lundgren but while switching between apps like Firefox, Thunderbird, Office Writer and Calc this means tons of more clicks and mouse mileage to get simple tasks done. So in 2.x I simply use docky to start or compiz scale to switch between windows. But in 3.0 I have to click activities, then click or drag an app to the window I want and then click on a window? + I have there recent documents, Windows crapy style app finder/launcher, some shortcuts, places etc. whitch makes it just too much information. I hope that it will never become default in ubuntu because this is a big leap backward in the meaning of bringing more users to Ubuntu. It is from developers to developers/linux pro's. Using it for work with documents and managing business I't will suck big time. For an example I'm using web based CRM at the moment and I have to copy clients information from web to calc. This means a lot of window changing. Could you honestly say that Shell would be better to perform these tasks?

And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that Gnome Shell is a bad thing. I'm sure that there is a lot of people who could make some use of it but what kinda bugs me, is since it is called 3.0 and that means that in the future this is the way gnome is heading then this just frusturates me.

#1456
  • It will be possible to use old gnome-panel and metacity - but they won't get new features (and gnome-shell is supposed to be the default).
  • Lucid won't have gnome-shell by default so you could stay on Lucid during it's supported phase until gnome-shell sorts itself out.
  • I'm sure Canonical wouldn't just drop gnome-shell without any testing or tweaks, in fact it will be interesting to see what will Canonical devs do with it since gnome-shell replaces a lot of Canonical's effort (notifications, panel indicators, me-menu, session menu...)
  • Of course, you could also try other desktop enviroments like ranch hand suggested.
  • Someone could make a Ubuntu remix (like Mint is for example) without gnome-shell.
#1457

I like the gnome as it is now. the thing that bugs me is the fact that I need to install lots of extra stuff to have a XXI century desktop. If they re-build the panel, applet, windows list, nautilus, absorb the compiz, it would be perfect to me. ;)

#1458

yzarc said: I like the gnome as it is now. the thing that bugs me is the fact that I need to install lots of extra stuff to have a XXI century desktop. If they re-build the panel, applet, windows list, nautilus, absorb the compiz, it would be perfect to me. ;)

absorbing compiz and having it enabled by default on older hardware that apparently can "handle compiz," is not a good idea.

Whenever I install default ubuntu (which works perfectly on my IBM T41, if I disable compiz IMMEDIATELY as soon as I login) I have to disable compiz IMMEDIATELY.

I can't show a video of WHY I have to because A.) The hardware would go SO slow with compiz enabled, that it would freeze on the first window it opened, even WITHOUT recording the desktop! B.) I'm unsteady with my hands, so I can't record using my digital camera.

#1459

tipsic said: First of all Ubuntu is the best candidate to bring over Windows and OSX users. Ubuntu is the best just because basically you don't have to use terminal to get things done and all the support. Now you guys saying that I could always use another desktop is kinda the wrong attitude. It should be simple and user-friendly and users should'nt start hacking for the sake of making things more user friendly. It's like buying a brand new S class Mercedes with two extra wheels under it and the dealer recommends that man you can take them off any time you like.

And I guess Gnome Shell devs. haven't heard anything about ergonomics. It might look cool on youtube and b class hollywood movies with Dolph Lundgren but while switching between apps like Firefox, Thunderbird, Office Writer and Calc this means tons of more clicks and mouse mileage to get simple tasks done. So in 2.x I simply use docky to start or compiz scale to switch between windows. But in 3.0 I have to click activities, then click or drag an app to the window I want and then click on a window? + I have there recent documents, Windows crapy style app finder/launcher, some shortcuts, places etc. whitch makes it just too much information. I hope that it will never become default in ubuntu because this is a big leap backward in the meaning of bringing more users to Ubuntu. It is from developers to developers/linux pro's. Using it for work with documents and managing business I't will suck big time. For an example I'm using web based CRM at the moment and I have to copy clients information from web to calc. This means a lot of window changing. Could you honestly say that Shell would be better to perform these tasks?

And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that Gnome Shell is a bad thing. I'm sure that there is a lot of people who could make some use of it but what kinda bugs me, is since it is called 3.0 and that means that in the future this is the way gnome is heading then this just frusturates me.

No - users suggesting that there are other desktop environments available is absolutely not the wrong attitude. Suggesting to fork out life savings to a Mac simply because you:

-Did not check out LXDE -Did not check out KDE -Did not check out XFCE -Did not even give Gnome Shell a chance to be finalized before using it

is the wrong attitude. We Linux users have something Mac and Windows could only dream about. Choice. We have the power of choice to utilize the Linux operating system in many different ways, which is why there are other desktop environments available. I have spoken to the Gnome Shell developers. They are very aware of what users want to see, but this is a tremendous overhaul. This is not some weekend project. Many distros, including Red Hat, Ubuntu, etc are all pitching in to this Gnome project to see what it evolves into.

There are a ton of KDE users on board here on the forums who swear by it. I've used KDE, it's very very nice, and their release of KDE 4.4 in Ubuntu 10.04 next month is looking to be very attractive.

Trying out Gnome Shell in its current state and forming a final opinion isn't the most accurate thing to do. It's like looking at a foundation of a house that's not built and saying you want it built differently. There will be a lot of things to come down the road. And who knows? Maybe Gnome Shell will bomb on its first release - we just don't know. But the Gnome you're used to with panels won't be stripped from you. After all, some users use Ubuntu with the GUI as servers (we have two of them) and run them virtually. Running Gnome Shell in a virtual machine isn't the smartest and easiest thing to do.

I guess my point is, there's a long road to go yet - but I have to say, what changes I have seen in Gnome Shell have been remarkable - but I too want to see quite a few more changes before I use Gnome Shell full time when it's finally released. Sometimes I find myself getting sick of zooming in and out all of the time. But Docky and Gnome Do can still be used with Shell, which is how I've made it work for me. I can access applications quickly without zooming out/in, and I can use the dock to work with open windows without getting dizzy. This is an area I've heard they want to improve on. But at the end of the day, I hear what you're saying - but we have to be patient.

#1460

knarf said: As it stands, gnome-shell can not be used on machines which video hardware/drivers which do not support non-power-of-two textures.

Replying to my own statement here I can now say that is was not the lack of NPOT textures which kept gnome-shell from running. It was the lack of suitable RGBA/BGRA visuals on the savage video driver. I have patched the driver and can now run mutter - albeit slowly - so there is some hope yet that these older machines can at least boot into gnome 3...

The patch for the savage driver is attached to the bug report on launchpad. A similar patch can be developed for other drivers which fail to export non-zero alpha modes.

#1461

Although it was mentioned before and again a couple of posts ago, I just want to emphasize it again, since posts tend to get overlooked in the huge thread quite often:

Yes you will still be able to use the old GNOME Panel and Metacity after GNOME-Shell is released

*Edit*

Btw the other day I wondered, has anyone managed to get the indicator-applet and the me-menu working with the shell? Never thought it, but I have gotten really used to these two (especially the indicator applet), so much I really feel strange using IM without 'em.

#1462

bash said: Btw the other day I wondered, has anyone managed to get the indicator-applet and the me-menu working with the shell? Never thought it, but I have gotten really used to these two (especially the indicator applet), so much I really feel strange using IM without 'em.

The bad news is that Gnome Shell has no support for Panel Applets, and therefore will have no support for the indicator applets as they are now.

The good news is that the indicator applets are just simple containers to aggregate and show indicators (ex: in Lucid, indicator-applet contains indicator-messages, indicator-sound and indicator-applications and indicator-applet-session contains indicator-session and indicator-me). The code of the indicators themselves is independent of the applets. So, theoretically, one can write a Gnome-Shell javascript extension to put indicators in the shell with little effort.

#1463

There is one thing that GNOME Shell will do good: Any social networker will be greatly impressed with GS, thanks to its proposed Message Tray, which is meant to make sure social networking does not interfere with other work by concentrating social messages at the bottom of the screen, so they don't interrupt you.

Edit: The Message Tray already is in there. Sorry for saying 'Proposed'.

#1464

Is there a way to debug gnome-shell? I can only see gs 25% of the screen. It seems like it is connected to the nouveau driver because it works fine with the nvidia driver, though it is laggy.

9400M

#1465

Tompalaz said: Is there a way to debug gnome-shell?

I can only see gs 25% of the screen. It seems like it is connected to the nouveau driver because it works fine with the nvidia driver, though it is laggy.

9400M

First it would help to know hwo you installed it. Package? Ricotz PPA? Built from source?

Also..

GNOME Shell 2.29.1 Released

#1466

bash said: Although it was mentioned before and again a couple of posts ago, I just want to emphasize it again, since posts tend to get overlooked in the huge thread quite often:

Yes you will still be able to use the old GNOME Panel and Metacity after GNOME-Shell is released

I talked to a few users outside of the Gnome Shell thread, and everybody seems to think Gnome Panels aren't going anywhere -ever-. Everyone is saying that Gnome 3.0 and Gnome Shell are two different things, and Shell will forever remain an option and more than likely not default.

This is just what I keep hearing. Oddly, everybody I talk to outside of this thread seems to talk negatively against Shell. :( Not too sure if I'd run it full time myself, UNLESS THEY ADD A DOCK LIKE FEATURE TO IT, but I guess final release could prove different.

#1467

I think that is more a just in case. I like the gnome shell so far, and I have a lot faith in them to deliver on it. I especially like how they decided to wait and make the offical release later this year.

#1468

Hi guys :)

I just upgraded to the Beta for Lucid Lynx and I am trying to test the GNOME Shell in its current developmental state, but whenever I try to replace the gnome-shell in use by Lucid, my programs freeze up, I can't open anything, and the Panel at the top doesn't show up? Is Gnome Shell unavailable at its current state for old Gateway computers? Are there any backports that I can install to alleviate the problems that I am having? Have I built GNOME Shell right? I followed Merk42's instructions on how to build it from source - it's found at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1305154&highlight=lucid+gnome+drop+menu. Thanks, everyone :)

  • Vince Lupe
#1469

Merged the above post into the existing Gnome-Shell thread.

#1470

vince.lupe said: Hi guys :)

I just upgraded to the Beta for Lucid Lynx and I am trying to test the GNOME Shell in its current developmental state, but whenever I try to replace the gnome-shell in use by Lucid, my programs freeze up, I can't open anything, and the Panel at the top doesn't show up? Is Gnome Shell unavailable at its current state for old Gateway computers? Are there any backports that I can install to alleviate the problems that I am having? Have I built GNOME Shell right? I followed Merk42's instructions on how to build it from source - it's found at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1305154&highlight=lucid+gnome+drop+menu. Thanks, everyone :)

  • Vince Lupe

What, if any, error messages does the terminal say when you run ./gnome-shell --replace ? GNOME Shell requires compositing, is your Gateway capable of such? (like Compiz)

#1471

Merk42 said: What, if any, error messages does the terminal say when you run ./gnome-shell --replace ?

GNOME Shell requires compositing, is your Gateway capable of such? (like Compiz)

It's capable of Compiz, but it is a little bit slow. Whenever I run ./gnome-shell --replace, it gives me a message, saying something like, "Cannot run. There is already a gnome shell in use." Will try it again, here, soon, after I re-run jhbuild with the -f -a -c swtiches (jhbuild -f -a -c).

#1472

vince.lupe said: It's capable of Compiz, but it is a little bit slow. Whenever I run ./gnome-shell --replace, it gives me a message, saying something like, "Cannot run. There is already a gnome shell in use." Will try it again, here, soon, after I re-run jhbuild with the -f -a -c swtiches (jhbuild -f -a -c).

It says something like, "Failed to start shell... cannot register panel shell: there is already one running...Window manager warning: Screen 0 on display":0" already has a window manager; try using the --replace option to replace the current window manager...Traceback (most recent call last): File "./gnome-shell", line 434, in <module>..." I had to stop the attempt to run GNOME Shell because it would not respond. I used terminal by pressing Ctrl+Alt+F6. Any thoughts?

#1473

Merk42 said: First it would help to know hwo you installed it. Package? Ricotz PPA? Built from source?

Also..

GNOME Shell 2.29.1 Released

I have tried the PPA but currently build from source. Non of them work.

I have rebuilt it using jhbuild build -fac several times. :(

Ricotz PPA and source worked until gnome-shell required clutter1.2

Edit1: I've also removed the gnome-shell folder from home, reinstalled lucid. Edit2: Now there isn't any errors running gnome-shell --replace, but it still won't work with nouveau edit3: I can't run any command from alt-F2. It won't take the enter key. I have tried with lucid, jaunty and debian jhbuild. Running just ./gnome-shell just take me back to login window.

Is there anyone else here running gnome-shell with nouveau?

Lots of edits here :D edit5: Tried the PPA again. Now I get a wierd error

tomas@tomas-laptop:~$ gnome-shell --replace

Window manager warning: Log level 16: Could not load library [/usr/lib/mutter/plugins/libgnome-shell.so (/usr/lib/mutter/plugins/libgnome-shell.so: undefined symbol: cogl_clip_push_rectangle)] Window manager warning: Log level 8: failed to load plugins

#1474

Tompalaz said: I have tried the PPA but currently build from source. Non of them work.

I have rebuilt it using jhbuild build -fac several times. :(

Ricotz PPA and source worked until gnome-shell required clutter1.2

Edit1: I've also removed the gnome-shell folder from home, reinstalled lucid. Edit2: Now there isn't any errors running gnome-shell --replace, but it still won't work with nouveau edit3: I can't run any command from alt-F2. It won't take the enter key. I have tried with lucid, jaunty and debian jhbuild. Running just ./gnome-shell just take me back to login window.

Is there anyone else here running gnome-shell with nouveau?

Lots of edits here :D edit5: Tried the PPA again. Now I get a wierd error

Yeah, I don't know. I compiled completely from source. Just re-compiled it last night using jhbuild build -f -a -c. It told me, "Success! [8/8]," so... I don't know. I'd really like to get it working.

#1475

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]> vince.lupe said:

Yeah, I don't know. I compiled completely from source. Just re-compiled it last night using jhbuild build -f -a -c. It told me, "Success! [8/8]," so... I don't know. I'd really like to get it working.

Also, for you - Tompalaz - try to enter terminal, change directory to the gnome-shell directory, using "cd ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src" , then, use "./gnome-shell --replace" . That was what Merk42 who wrote the post suggested.[/FONT]

#1476

Thats what I've been trying... Edit:Installed clutter-1.0 gjs gnome-shell gobject-introspection mutter Now there's not a error but it still won't work. Click to see image...

#1477

Tompalaz said: Thats what I've been trying...

Edit:Installed clutter-1.0 gjs gnome-shell gobject-introspection mutter Now there's not a error but it still won't work. Click to see image...

No luck either?

#1478

Hi, I'd like to ask for some help. Since an update a couple of weeks ago (a big update where mutter and gobject-introspection where also updated, I think), I haven't been able to run Gnome Shell. Got it from Ricotz PPA. This is what the terminal says when I try gnome-shell --replace:

JS ERROR: !!! REPORTED: 'reserved slot index out of range'

JS ERROR: !!! REPORTED: file '(null)' line 0 exception 0 number 166 Failed to init standard javascript classes Shell killed with signal 6Any ideas? I'm completely lost.

#1479

vince.lupe said: No luck either?

Well, as you see on the picture it's not that functional even though it runs.

#1480

Menti said: Hi, I'd like to ask for some help. Since an update a couple of weeks ago (a big update where mutter and gobject-introspection where also updated, I think), I haven't been able to run Gnome Shell. Got it from Ricotz PPA. This is what the terminal says when I try gnome-shell --replace:

Any ideas? I'm completely lost.

It means you have two versions of Xulrunner installed. Uninstall the older version. (the same thing happened to me)

#1481

Error output from when I run ./gnome-shell --replace

JS LOG: Failed to acquire org.freedesktop.Notifications; trying again

^CShell killed with signal 2 tomas@tomas-laptop:~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src$ Launching fallback window manager ^C tomas@tomas-laptop:~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src$ gnome-shell --replace Panel leaving: a new panel shell is starting.

(gnome-panel:30217): EggSMClient-CRITICAL **: egg_sm_client_set_mode: assertion `global_client == NULL || global_client_mode == EGG_SM_CLIENT_MODE_DISABLED' failed

(gnome-panel:30217): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: instance with invalid (NULL) class pointer

(gnome-panel:30217): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_signal_handlers_disconnect_matched: assertion `G_TYPE_CHECK_INSTANCE (instance)' failed

(gnome-panel:30217): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_set: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed

(gnome-panel:30217): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: instance with invalid (NULL) class pointer

(gnome-panel:30217): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_signal_connect_data: assertion `G_TYPE_CHECK_INSTANCE (instance)' failed

(gnome-panel:30217): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_widget_show: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed

(gnome-panel:30217): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_widget_show: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed

(gnome-panel:30217): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_widget_show: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed

(gnome-panel:30217): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_widget_show: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed JS LOG: GNOME Shell started at Wed Mar 24 2010 21:42:49 GMT+0100 (CET) JS LOG: Failed to acquire org.freedesktop.Notifications; trying again ^CShell killed with signal 2 tomas@tomas-laptop:~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src$

For folks running gnome-shell with nouveau driver: Do you have a xorg.conf, in that case, how does it look like?

#1482

Mblackwell said: It means you have two versions of Xulrunner installed. Uninstall the older version. (the same thing happened to me)

Right!! Thanks a lot.

#1483

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"]> Merk42 said:

What, if any, error messages does the terminal say when you run ./gnome-shell --replace ?

GNOME Shell requires compositing, is your Gateway capable of such? (like Compiz)

I just re-compiled GNOME Shell, using jhbuild build (to update it and such), and I just tried ./gnome-shell replace to see if GNOME Shell would run (I did it while logged in to GNOME, not the Ubuntu Netbook Edition start-up option), and this is what I received in terminal:

[I]vince@vince-laptop:~$ cd ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src vince@vince-laptop:~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src$ ./gnome-shell --replace JS LOG: GNOME Shell started at Thu Mar 25 2010 01:22:16 GMT-0400 (EST) *******************************WARN_ONCE***************************** File radeon_swtcl.c function r100_swtcl_flush line 323 Rendering was 13 commands larger than predicted size. We might overflow command buffer. ************************************************************************* drmRadeonCmdBuffer: -22. Kernel failed to parse or rejected command stream. See dmesg for more info. vince@vince-laptop:~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src$ Window manager warning: Failed to read saved session file /home/vince/.config/metacity/sessions/10cc3d94b35207e34f126948760553229600000010530001.ms: Failed to open file '/home/vince/.config/metacity/sessions/10cc3d94b35207e34f126948760553229600000010530001.ms': No such file or directory [/I]

[/FONT]

#1484

Hi. I running Gnome SHell via the PPA updates and have just done a fresh install of Karmic 9.10. When I try and install Gnome-Shell I get the following output:

dave@dave-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get install gnome-shell [sudo] password for dave: Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable distribution that some required packages have not yet been created or been moved out of Incoming. The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies: gnome-shell: Depends: gobject-introspection-glib-2.0 (>= 0.6.9) but it is not going to be installed Depends: gobject-introspection-freedesktop (>= 0.6.9) but it is not going to be installed Depends: gobject-introspection-repository but it is not going to be installed E: Broken packages

I am guessing this is down to my version of gnme being stuck at 2.28.1 and the latest Gnome Shell being linked to Gnome 2.29

Could anyone please confirm this or suggest any other causes? Thanks

#1485

I run the PPA G-S on Karmic on my Desktop, so it can be installed. Is it possible you chose the Lucid option and not the Karmic one?

#1486

k3lt01 said: I run the PPA G-S on Karmic on my Desktop, so it can be installed. Is it possible you chose the Lucid option and not the Karmic one?

hi - thanks for the response. Could you advise how I could identify this? Thanks

#1487

Go System > Administration > Software Sources. Once you are in your software sources gui click on the Other Software tab. Look for the Rictotz PPA line and check if it has Karmic or Lucid in it. If it has Lucid change it to Karmic.

#1488

Thanks. It was Karmic. I did a bit more digging and the issue seemed to be with Epiphany of all things. Once that was uninstalled, the dependencies were able to be installed.

#1489

guv999 said: Thanks. It was Karmic. I did a bit more digging and the issue seemed to be with Epiphany of all things. Once that was uninstalled, the dependencies were able to be installed.Glad you got it going.

#1490

Morning folks...

I've been able to change the panel font for "Activities," the clock/calendar applet, and the status indicator by changing the corresponding font declaration in /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme/gnome-shell.css's .panel-button css, but for the life of me can't figure-out how to change the font for the title of the open application (the one that shows up between Activities and the clock/calendar).

Any ideas?

#1491

moore.bryan said: Morning folks...

I've been able to change the panel font for "Activities," the clock/calendar applet, and the status indicator by changing the corresponding font declaration in /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme/gnome-shell.css's .panel-button css, but for the life of me can't figure-out how to change the font for the title of the open application (the one that shows up between Activities and the clock/calendar).

Any ideas?

in gnome-shell.css:

#panel { color: #ffffff; font: something; <-change that

#1492

I tried building this from the Gnome Live! page. After running gnome-shell --replace all I get is a small ~800x600 view in the top left corner of the screen which shows what should be the bottom right of the screen. This is on a 1920x1200 res.

[[IMG]http://www.imagebanana.com/img/60tfjrjn/thumb/Workspace1_003.png[/IMG]](http://www.imagebanana.com/view/60tfjrjn/Workspace1_003.png)

#1493

Rob2687 said: I tried building this from the Gnome Live! page. After running gnome-shell --replace all I get is a small ~800x600 view in the top left corner of the screen which shows what should be the bottom right of the screen. This is on a 1920x1200 res.

[[IMG]http://www.imagebanana.com/img/60tfjrjn/thumb/Workspace1_003.png[/IMG]](http://www.imagebanana.com/view/60tfjrjn/Workspace1_003.png)

Yes, I have exactly the same problem. Do you ha a nVidia card? Do you use the nouveau drivers? The drivers from nvidia works for me but it's super slow.

I have filed a bug at https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614142 please fill it with more information and say that you're also affected. It's hard to make your voice herd when your the only one complaining.

#1494

It works now. I was using the radeon gallium driver. It works fine with the mesa radeon driver.

#1495

What did you do to get it to work?

#1496

augias said: in gnome-shell.css:

#panel { color: #ffffff; font: something; <-change that

Excellent; thanks!!

#1497

What do you guys think of the "Exaile is ready" notifications? They seem to piss me off hardcore for some reason. I find them cumbersome to click on an application and it's like OH HEY LOL WHATS UP ROASTED YOUR APPLICATION IS READY FOR YOU.

Can I shut these off? Or will they at least be removed?

#1498

It isnt final yet, post your feelings on the mailing list or where they post bugs.

#1499

Roasted said: What do you guys think of the "Exaile is ready" notifications? They seem to piss me off hardcore for some reason. I find them cumbersome to click on an application and it's like OH HEY LOL WHATS UP ROASTED YOUR APPLICATION IS READY FOR YOU.

Can I shut these off? Or will they at least be removed? +1

If only there was a way to reply. Stick it up your processor would be a good start.

#1500

I must admit I am finding gnome-shell a bit difficult at the moment. I am working quite a lot with my laptop balenced on my lap. This normally involves one hand (right) using the touchpad while the other uses the left mouse key (touchpad key). A standard practice - This is relatively stable.

However, in gnome shell, when I need an application thats not in my favourites I have to use the keyboard. This requires not just moving both hands, but a shift in body stance as well. Not good - in this situation - I revert back to normal gnome.

While I could select from the task display its difficult to target the application right away.

#1501

Peter09 said: I must admit I am finding gnome-shell a bit difficult at the moment. I am working quite a lot with my laptop balenced on my lap. This normally involves one hand (right) using the touchpad while the other uses the left mouse key (touchpad key). A standard practice - This is relatively stable.

However, in gnome shell, when I need an application thats not in my favourites I have to use the keyboard. This requires not just moving both hands, but a shift in body stance as well. Not good - in this situation - I revert back to normal gnome.

While I could select from the task display its difficult to target the application right away.

Well, there's simply no doubt that they should revert back to the single file vertical listing of applications that they had last month. This grid is nothing short of completely ridiculous. I think everybody can agree they find it cumbersome to quick-scan the grid for an application with the grid setup.

While I can understand some frustration, I have to just throw out there that it's definitely worthwhile to use Gnome Shell for a while to get used to it. The one thing I think is important to note that if you hit the super key, you get kicked into overview mode right then with your cursor in the search. Then you can type the application you want and hit enter, and there it is. I use this same method in regular Gnome with a fantastic application known as Gnome-Do. I barely use the menu in Gnome 2.X because of it. :P

While I do think Gnome Shell has things "relatively balanced" there are still a few things I think really need to be fixed up or implemented all together.

A dock-like function. Let's get over ourselves. Most people want it. Most people that use Gnome Shell are already using Docky with it. I can't see the notification system turning into a dock. It's a place to display notifications and better integrate other apps to it. That's all well and good, but what if I want to switch to my email client to write an email but the notification system doesn't have it displayed because... there's no notifications available for it. What if I'm a power user where I do this all day every day and going to the overview mode to switch applications 4 times every 15 seconds makes me sick? Where is it? Remove that thing where it says your currently primary window. I don't need to know that. I know what my primary window is because I'm currently using that primary window... I'd much rather have a dock-like function there in the top panel. Or at least the OPTION to do so... Otherwise most people will look at GS as a puzzle with 1 missing piece, and Docky being the last piece.

And of course, the application layout... back to vertical. It was so much easier...

Hey does anybody remember, if we were in the application list back when it was in vertical mode, if we hit the first key of the application we were looking for, did it bring up an alphabetical listing accordingly? For example, it'd be cool if you're somebody who has 4,000 things installed to type "S" and all of your "S" applications show up.

#1502

There has never been a full lists of available applications on G-S. It is something I have mentioned from the very beginning of Lucid testing.

#1503

Does the current use of the top bar as a place to show the application Icon/Name not lend itself to having a global menu up there as well?

Just move the clock back to the right.

This would save some much needed screen space.

#1504

Fred2a said: Does the current use of the top bar as a place to show the application Icon/Name not lend itself to having a global menu up there as well?

Just move the clock back to the right.

This would save some much needed screen space.

The design document postulates using the Focused app Icon on the panel as the application's menu.

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/CheatSheet look under "The Panel"

#1505

augias said: The design document postulates using the Focused app Icon on the panel as the application's menu.

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/CheatSheet look under "The Panel"

What menu is that though? The one that was removed in Lucid (Minimize, move to workspace, etc) or the one that is below the title bar (commonly file, edit, etc)?

#1506

Merk42 said: What menu is that though?

The one that was removed in Lucid (Minimize, move to workspace, etc) or the one that is below the title bar (commonly file, edit, etc)? Yes, it looks to me like a silly redundancy of the menu on the app.

I have no idea what is wrong with a menu you can actually use for apps but there must be something bad about the idea that you could actually use the DE for more than live chat and being a "twit" (that is the correct term for folks on twitter I am sure).

#1507

Merk42 said: What menu is that though?

The one that was removed in Lucid (Minimize, move to workspace, etc) or the one that is below the title bar (commonly file, edit, etc)?

The lead designer's proposal in the design document proposes the active app item take on the responsability of controls over the application as a whole as opposed to individual window tasks like close, maximize etc.

So the current possible uses mccan proposes for it are quit, force quit and work signals such as launching or busy.

Possibilities I see but aren't discussed yet are a "help" and "file" and maybe a window chooser.

#1508

Roasted said: Well, there's simply no doubt that they should revert back to the single file vertical listing of applications that they had last month. This grid is nothing short of completely ridiculous. I think everybody can agree they find it cumbersome to quick-scan the grid for an application with the grid setup.

I agree. If they're going to keep the grid they should at least change some of the spacing and have a way to see the full name of an app. I posted a bug and mockup about this awhile back.

Bug: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=610871

Mockup: http://mb.mirage.org/bugzilla/mockups/moreapps001/index.html

As you can see, no responses.

It should also have a way to categorize the applications. Alphabetically dumping out a list of all applications just doesn't work for me. I have way too many games and sound/audio editing applications.

#1509

I think it is a logical move in making the OS more "user friendly" to appeal to a "broader audience". We are going for the bottom rungs of MS users. You know the ones that work at places with pictures on the cash registers.

I can read.

#1510

I am beginning to have more faith in the Gnome shell. The release of Gnome 2.30 applications is great, I have finally switched to Epiphany full time. (It still has some pretty big issues in my book but none are show stoppers).

#1511

NightwishFan said: I am beginning to have more faith in the Gnome shell. The release of Gnome 2.30 applications is great, I have finally switched to Epiphany full time. (It still has some pretty big issues in my book but none are show stoppers).

You still using GS with Docky? :)

#1512

I am running Gnome 2.30 right now, with the Gnome 2 interface. I keep track of the shell on my other machine using the ricotz ppa. (It plays better with Karmic). My point was Gnome always seems to be chugging forward despite it's faults.

#1513

I've changed to AWN--it's growing on me & doing what I want it to (now)...

Interesting note for anyone wanting have a wallpaper changer.....the old version of wallpaper-tray (0.4.6) in the repos works...it even shows up in the upper GS panel. You will need to pin it because a newer version exists & it won't work in GS---go figure......

#1514

Mblackwell said: I agree. If they're going to keep the grid they should at least change some of the spacing and have a way to see the full name of an app. I posted a bug and mockup about this awhile back.

Bug: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=610871

Mockup: http://mb.mirage.org/bugzilla/mockups/moreapps001/index.html

As you can see, no responses.

It should also have a way to categorize the applications. Alphabetically dumping out a list of all applications just doesn't work for me. I have way too many games and sound/audio editing applications.

It is being categorized, there is a patch under construction in bugzilla. This is the mockup.

Gotta have a little faith and keep yourself informed. Remember, these are the same guys that made gnome 2 a hit; we're just waitin for the repeat performance.

#1515

That looks... really hard to look at?

#1516

augias said: It is being categorized, there is a patch under construction in bugzilla. This is the mockup.

Gotta have a little faith and keep yourself informed. Remember, these are the same guys that made gnome 2 a hit; we're just waitin for the repeat performance.

Um.. yeah... not so sure about that screenshot...

#1517

Mblackwell said: That looks... really hard to look at?

Are we talking about usability or color and style? Please be constructive and explain and discuss what you mean or else all that happens is that I feel insulted for trying to be helpful by informing the thread about what's happening at Gnome.

That thing is called a mockup, and designers use them to plan and imagine possible usabilty cases and aim the project in the right direction. Then a developer implements pieces little by little and the kinks get sorted out as the trueness of the mockup is tested.

Vacuous comments like "this sucks I hate it" belong on youtube, not here on a board full of thoughtful people such as yourselves.

#1518

according to:

apt-cache policy gnome-shell

2.28.1~git20091125-1 0

500 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid/universe Packages

wasn't gnome-shell 2.30 released with gnome 2.30 two days ago?

#1519

augias said: Are we talking about usability or color and style? Please be constructive and explain and discuss what you mean or else all that happens is that I feel insulted for trying to be helpful by informing the thread about what's happening at Gnome.

That thing is called a mockup, and designers use them to plan and imagine possible usabilty cases and aim the project in the right direction. Then a developer implements pieces little by little and the kinks get sorted out as the trueness of the mockup is tested.

Vacuous comments like "this sucks I hate it" belong on youtube, not here on a board full of thoughtful people such as yourselves.

I think the usability of it looks very poor.

#1520

Roasted said: I think the usability of it looks very poor.

edit: N/M I give up. Troglodytes win.

#1521

augias said: edit: N/M I give up. Troglodytes win.

You played a good game. :popcorn:

#1522

augias said: edit: N/M I give up. Troglodytes win.

You asked. I told.

#1523

augias said: Are we talking about usability or color and style? Please be constructive and explain and discuss what you mean or else all that happens is that I feel insulted for trying to be helpful by informing the thread about what's happening at Gnome.

That thing is called a mockup, and designers use them to plan and imagine possible usabilty cases and aim the project in the right direction. Then a developer implements pieces little by little and the kinks get sorted out as the trueness of the mockup is tested.

Vacuous comments like "this sucks I hate it" belong on youtube, not here on a board full of thoughtful people such as yourselves.

I've obviously posted a mockup myself and know what they are. You're being incredibly insulting.

Did you make the mockup? If you didn't then I don't know why I'd address specifically with you what's wrong with it. The same if you're not working on that area of the project. If you are, I'll give you more specific criticisms if you're actually interested in hearing them. If not I'll just stick with my original, polite answer of "it's hard to look at".

Frankly, you didn't even post a link to the bug. Why would I post on the Ubuntu forums what might be changed, especially since I have no idea what the current status is or what other people have said about it.

In the future please try to have a polite discourse rather than being accusatory and dismissive.

#1524

mblackwell said:

in the future please try to have a polite discourse rather than being accusatory and dismissive.

^ +1

#1525

Was this mockup made by William Jon McCann, who also has these screenshots...

http://people.gnome.org/~mccann/screenshots/clips/

The interface seems fine to me. I would like to see the categorised list distinguished more from the rest of the shell background. Maybe with larger icons/text or with a stronger colour contrast than just a dimming of the shell background.

#1526

I really hope the interface is not fully locked down, and we can hide the panel, etc. It would be great to modify behavior. Perhaps a configuration GUI is due for GDM as well. (Technically there is one, but it really has some nasty side effects for me)

#1527

Experiencing a weird issue. I always used Chromium. Uninstalled it, tried Chrome, uninstalled Chrome, now back on Chromium. When I go into the overlay now, Chromium runs in a new "icon" and not in the original launcher. Also interesting is that it now ignores my icon theme defaulting to the original icon. This issue never happened before, and doesn't happen on my laptop, which runs an almost identical package set. Anybody?

[[IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/5bzdwz_th.png[/IMG]]("http://i39.tinypic.com/5bzdwz.png")

#1528

Anyone know what the story is with the application menu? They're not seriously going to just chuck all your applications into one big grid arranged alphabetically are they?

#1529

I hope not, that would lead to much visual clutter. :o

Clicking less is good but not that less. Beginners would not know where to start.

#1530

hrhnick said: Experiencing a weird issue. I always used Chromium. Uninstalled it, tried Chrome, uninstalled Chrome, now back on Chromium. When I go into the overlay now, Chromium runs in a new "icon" and not in the original launcher. Also interesting is that it now ignores my icon theme defaulting to the original icon. This issue never happened before, and doesn't happen on my laptop, which runs an almost identical package set. Anybody?

[[IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/5bzdwz_th.png[/IMG]]("http://i39.tinypic.com/5bzdwz.png")

If you're referring to the blue/white icon instead of the Chrome green/red/yellow, that's because it's Chromium and not Chrome... different icon. :-)

#1531

Where are the System-->Administration settings in Gnome-shell.

#1532

I wish the gnome-shell activities menu was a little more customizable, following the GTK theme and perhaps with optional menus. for one I don't use the recent documents bit very often, I would appreciate having a gnome 2.0 style applications menu As one of the options.

Sure there is one applications menu, but it is a long list, and it maybe handier to have it subdivided into sections.

If there is already a way to customize the shell then please let me know.

Though I know that most devs seem to be busy with making things work, then focus on the asthetics...

#1533

moore.bryan said: If you're referring to the blue/white icon instead of the Chrome green/red/yellow, that's because it's Chromium and not Chrome... different icon.

:-)

no. when i "pin" a favorite to the overlay, the program gets outlined when its running. for chromium however, it makes a new icon and runs separate from the pinned favorite. it's all kinda confusing.

#1534

praveenthivari said: Where are the System-->Administration settings in Gnome-shell.

Don't have GNOME Shell on me right now, but I'm pretty sure it's the top right under System Preferences.

#1535

Merk42 said: Don't have GNOME Shell on me right now, but I'm pretty sure it's the top right under System Preferences.

That is, of course, if you're using it from the PPA and not the repos.

#1536

I like the GNOME Shell concept. I like the way when you click on "activities" and then "applications" it looks like the screen of an iPod Touch. But why list all of the games with the real apps in one box. It's cluttered. There should be one button for "games" that will open a new box and show them all together and apart from everything else.

#1537

From whats being said on the mailing list they are baking their noodles about this. ;)

#1538

Another round of ideas and mockups for the Shell. In this case for the «system status tray».

You can find a nice summary here: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/gnome-shell-system-status-area-mockups.html

Or the full documentation and all mock-ups over that GNOME Shell "homepage": http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Guidelines/SystemStatus

#1539

Hi, on Karmic this worked:

sudo apt-get install gnome-shell

But in Lucid it looks that it's not on the repositories, so how can I install it? is there a .deb package over there? ^^

#1540

carlosgs91 said: But in Lucid it looks that it's not on the repositories, so how can I install it? is there a .deb package over there? ^^

It is in the universe repository...

http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/gnome-shell

#1541

I'm closing this thread temporarily, for people to cool off. Non-technical discussion regarding GNOME Shell will be moved to Community Cafe from this point on.

#1542

installing gnome-shell on lucid lynx says dependency not satisfiable ljke

gnome-shell: Depends: libgjs0 but it is not going to be installed

#1543

Muhammad Ahmed said: installing gnome-shell on lucid lynx says dependency not satisfiable ljke

gnome-shell: Depends: libgjs0 but it is not going to be installed

Same results here. Anyone got pass this?

Thanks.

#1544

The package needs updating badly, a lot has changed on gnome-shell since november

#1545

You could try building from source or the Ricotz PPA

I hope the GNOME Shell thread gets unlocked soon...though I guess this could just eventually get merged into it

#1546

I suggest you follow the instructions at the bottom of this page.

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell

I have used this build method now for the last six months. It is also a good way to keep up with the latest version.

#1547

I moved the off topic posts to the Cafe.

#1548

Finaly gnome-shell start with the nouveau driver. However, when windows are in windowed mode they're in high-contrast, and sometimes I can't see anything.

When windows are in maximized/fullscreen they look like they should...

See picture.

Edit: Tried PPA and building from source. I don't know if there is a dependency problem :/

#1549

jjcv said: I suggest you follow the instructions at the bottom of this page.

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell

I have used this build method now for the last six months. It is also a good way to keep up with the latest version.

Your suggestion worked very smoothly for me until here:

cd ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src
./gnome-shell --replace

...which produced:

****@****-vbox-ubuntu:~$ cd ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src
****@****-vbox-ubuntu:~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src$ ./gnome-shell --replace
OpenGL Warning: glXChooseFBConfigSGIX not implemented by Chromium
Window manager error: Unable to initialize Clutter.
****@****-vbox-ubuntu:~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src$ Window manager warning: Screen 0 on display ":0.0" already has a window manager; try using the --replace option to replace the current window manager.
Cannot register the panel shell: there is already one running.

(Ubuntu 10.04 beta 1 AMD64 running in VBox 3.1.6 w/ GA on Win 7 64-bit host)

Anyone with a native installation have more luck?

#1550

null_pointer_us said: Your suggestion worked very smoothly for me until here:

cd ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src
./gnome-shell --replace

...which produced:

****@****-vbox-ubuntu:~$ cd ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src
****@****-vbox-ubuntu:~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src$ ./gnome-shell --replace
OpenGL Warning: glXChooseFBConfigSGIX not implemented by Chromium
Window manager error: Unable to initialize Clutter.
****@****-vbox-ubuntu:~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src$ Window manager warning: Screen 0 on display ":0.0" already has a window manager; try using the --replace option to replace the current window manager.
Cannot register the panel shell: there is already one running.

(Ubuntu 10.04 beta 1 AMD64 running in VBox 3.1.6 w/ GA on Win 7 64-bit host)

Anyone with a native installation have more luck?

First post of this thread:

Merk42 said:

Don't try it in a Virtual Machine [IMG]http://www.markecurtis.com/etc/gnomeshell/virtualbox.png[/IMG]

As far as I know it has to do with Virtualbox's not yet 100% 3D emulation

If you build from source, everything gets saved to ~/gnome-shell so there's really no need to run it in a VM.

#1551

Yeah, I figured it was a problem with vbox.

Remember, the first post of this thread was last November. Both gnome shell and vbox has have seen a bit of work since then. Apparently, not quite enough to get it working.

FWIW, failing with a useful error message is decidedly better than corrupting the whole screen.

#1552

Did anyone else update from the PPA this morning and now GNOME Shell crashes when going to the overview?


JS LOG: GNOME Shell started at Wed Apr 07 2010 09:38:24 GMT-0500 (CST)
Shell killed with signal 11

Is all I get for log output.

#1553

Yes, I get the same thing. I've seen it mentioned in another thread. Just have to wait for the next update, I guess...

#1554

I tried to get into Gnome shell, but i just couldn't. My personal opinion is that it's awful. It took forever to get Compiz working properly on some of my computers, and now that it does, ive managed to configure my environment under the current gnome just the way i like it.

I feel that Gnome shell takes a lot of that control over my environment away from me. And for what, to appeal to windows users who probably won't switch to linux anyways? (those of whom ive managed to convert did so because linux is faster, they can synchronize their ipods without the bloated itunes, viruses are a non-issue, and in their own words, linux is like mac on pc).

I won't knock it for those that like it, im just saying, i'd rather stay in control of my own environment. I sincerely hope that in future release, the installer will offer the choice between classic gnome and gnome shell. Otherwise, I will convert myself (and others) to xubuntu.

#1555

Since GNOME Shell is extensible and uses CSS for all of the theming and a good chunk of the element size/positioning it should in many ways be even more customizable. Unfortunately not all of this is completely implemented yet. For instance you can change the way things look and feel via CSS (very nicely in fact, I've also messed with the JS files once or twice to change a few things) but you'll have to redo it next time you update through the PPA.

And yes, GNOME 2.0's desktop will still be available at least in the first release of GNOME 3.

#1556

While my main activity on the computer is building websites (JS/ajax, CSS and all the rest) i wouldn't be comfortable using it to customize my desktop. I like the simple GUI's, the gnome panel applets, the fact that my panels can be placed where i like, any number of them, have them autohide, expand, etc.

On my netbook, my panel consists of the ubuntu icon for the main menu, dockbarx, and the tray, the panel is only a few icons wide. I use Compiz ring-switcher with Alt Tab to cycle through my windows, i find this arrangement very elegant and functional for my tiny screen.

I still feel that gnome shell is something that should be offered on top of regular gnome, rather than as a replacement, much in the same way you can toggle visual effects.

#1557

HolidayQueen said: I feel that Gnome shell takes a lot of that control over my environment away from me. And for what, to appeal to windows users who probably won't switch to linux anyways?

How did you jump to the conclusion that GNOME Shell was created to appeal to Windows users?

HolidayQueen said: While my main activity on the computer is building websites (JS/ajax, CSS and all the rest) i wouldn't be comfortable using it to customize my desktop. I like the simple GUI's, the gnome panel applets, the fact that my panels can be placed where i like, any number of them, have them autohide, expand, etc.

GNOME Shell is early, as in, not even final. What's stopping anyone from making a GUI to configure the CSS? (think something like Dreamweaver)

#1558

first page of this thread there is a post stating that gnome shell is meant to appeal to the bottom rungs of windows users.

Now weather or not the poster is actually representative of gnome shell i can't say.

But i'll ask this, who is gnome shell actually trying to appeal to? So far the only people from whom i've heard positive reviews is those who generally like to play with new things. (desktop environments to play with, and desktop environments to produce with, are two very different things in my books).

#1559

Merk42 said:

GNOME Shell is early, as in, not even final. What's stopping anyone from making a GUI to configure the CSS? (think something like Dreamweaver)

Perhaps so. I may even be able to imitate the user interface i enjoy now, but i wont have the same functionality i wish to keep.

Shell is an interesting concept, but IMHO, it's best chance of success is as a supplement. If you intend it as a replacement, then i smell another fork of ubuntu. (Gnome Do was an interesting concept too, but you don't see it installed by default today).

#1560

HolidayQueen said: Perhaps so. I may even be able to imitate the user interface i enjoy now, but i wont have the same functionality i wish to keep.

Shell is an interesting concept, but IMHO, it's best chance of success is as a supplement. If you intend it as a replacement, then i smell another fork of ubuntu. (Gnome Do was an interesting concept too, but you don't see it installed by default today).

You mean another fork of Gnome, not Ubuntu.

I've been slowly beginning to agree. I work in IT, and I'm just not entirely sure *yet* how I would ever consider implementing this to the masses.

I don't want to be judgmental quite yet, because the truth is it's NOT done and it has a long way to go. But the more I use Gnome Shell, while I think it's very interesting with the way it's laid out, I'm just not sure I'd want to use it full time.

Chances are the masses will help dictate this movement, however. If the masses use GS and think poorly of it, it'd be suicide to barf out GS as default instead of an option. So who knows... it's hard to say. Definitely keeping the faith with GS, but I'm not all about it like I previously was.

#1561

Roasted said: You mean another fork of Gnome, not Ubuntu.

I've been slowly beginning to agree. I work in IT, and I'm just not entirely sure *yet* how I would ever consider implementing this to the masses.

I don't want to be judgmental quite yet, because the truth is it's NOT done and it has a long way to go. But the more I use Gnome Shell, while I think it's very interesting with the way it's laid out, I'm just not sure I'd want to use it full time.

Chances are the masses will help dictate this movement, however. If the masses use GS and think poorly of it, it'd be suicide to barf out GS as default instead of an option. So who knows... it's hard to say. Definitely keeping the faith with GS, but I'm not all about it like I previously was.

Sorry yeah i meant to say a fork of gnome. But if ubuntu were to force gnome shell onto the masses, then you can bet someone is gonna come up with a ubuntu-based distro with pure gnome in it's stead.

I dunno, it would be cool if, lets say, you could chose GS at login much like you chose XFCE or KDE (if you have'em installed).

But as i said in the beginning, i can't see myself being very productive working on websites in gnome shell, im too used to just Alt Tab'ing between gedit and chromium, which i do practically every time i change a line of code, i simply try to avoid the mouse as much as possible in such a context. (That and i waited an eternity for compiz to work properly on some of my computers, i can't imagine parting with it now lol)

#1562

I finally got to install Gnome Shell. Interesting. I am using it for this moment, buttt..... I think it is something good for a start. I saw several things that I don't really like, and I am sure many others feel the same way. I am not against change at all, but I understand this is not the final product. I hope that they change many features that everyone is griping about and this could be a great thing. Hopefully it does not turn out how KDE 4 did in the beginning. If it does, I will probably wait until 12.04 for the next LTS?

#1563

AndyP79 said: I finally got to install Gnome Shell. Interesting. I am using it for this moment, buttt..... I think it is something good for a start. I saw several things that I don't really like, and I am sure many others feel the same way. I am not against change at all, but I understand this is not the final product. I hope that they change many features that everyone is griping about and this could be a great thing. Hopefully it does not turn out how KDE 4 did in the beginning. If it does, I will probably wait until 12.04 for the next LTS?

I REALLY doubt we'll see a repeat of KDE 4 ever. I feel as though right now, today, Gnome Shell is more stable than KDE 4 was during its initial release. The Gnome devs are implementing things slowly and in a calculated manner so it's not too much too soon. But they seem to have some tricks up their sleeve, so let's see what happens.

#1564

A rather weird problem.

When I connect my external screen and use gnome-shell the performance is quite good, I'd say fast even. Though, when I disconnect the screen and just use the laptop it's slow and not that fast at all.

nvidia driver 9400M MacBook 5,1

#1565

It's amazing what can change in a few days. I'm seeing some new things with the notification system. It's as if it's coming to life now.

But... *ahem*... where's the dock-like functionality at? :P

#1566

Yes the shell is coming out of its shell so to speak.:confused: I cannot seem to get empathy to use its own windows and not the notification ones though. I will have to say anyone who has not tried the ricotz give it a go. It is still months away from final too. I really am hoping they give it some configuration.

#1567

Anyone building from source having trouble lately? I keep getting it complaining about Pango

#1568

So... big problem. Small problem, but to me a big problem. When I'm on regular Gnome, I swear by the hold-super-key-down + scroll in/out with scroll wheel for zooming. It's a huge help with showing people things, presentations, etc.

With Gnome Shell, I can't do that because of the binding with the super key. Is there any way I can bind another key to it, so I cant alt + scroll in/out with scroll wheel?

#1569

I think the keybinding can be changed in the compizconfig settings manager under the option advanced zoom settings.

#1570

godhika said: I think the keybinding can be changed in the compizconfig settings manager under the option advanced zoom settings.

Not when you're using Gnome shell instead of compiz...

#1571

godhika said: I think the keybinding can be changed in the compizconfig settings manager under the option advanced zoom settings.

But if compiz isn't compatible with gnome shell, and gnome shell is taking away my beloved zoom feature, how can this feature be utilized with gnome shell?

EDIT - Well I didn't realize you could do it through keyboard shortcuts in the regular gnome, however it doesn't seem as if I can bind my scroll wheel to it... meh.

#1572

Roasted said: But if compiz isn't compatible with gnome shell, and gnome shell is taking away my beloved zoom feature, how can this feature be utilized with gnome shell?

EDIT - Well I didn't realize you could do it through keyboard shortcuts in the regular gnome, however it doesn't seem as if I can bind my scroll wheel to it... meh.

This is definitely a feature worth mentioning somewhere on the mailing lists, as it is quite useful. It is probably not that hard to implement.

#1573

Does pressing Ctrl and hitting + work in GS?

#1574

on my,

i think gnome may have just jumped the shark.

the frequently accessed overview may be the cause of frequently accessed swear words.

In addition to making workspaces more intuitive gnome shell flys pigs

it just doesn't work with the way i do,

#1575

Directive 4 said: on my,

i think gnome may have just jumped the shark.

the frequently accessed overview may be the cause of frequently accessed swear words.

In addition to making workspaces more intuitive gnome shell flys pigs

it just doesn't work with the way i do,

Could you explain in plain English what it is you're trying to say.

#1576

cariboo907 said: Could you explain in plain English what it is you're trying to say.

What an excellent idea.

#1577

Allow me to translate:

"I don't like Gnome-shell".

#1578

sgage said: Allow me to translate:

"I don't like Gnome-shell".

very good sgage, =D>

i would of thought you other 2 could of figured that out on your own.

oh well, you can maybe get a job on the gnome shell dev team instead:biggrin:

#1579

There are a lot of people who are not native english speakers here on the forums. There is such things as courtesy and respect.

I do agree that GS, as it is, doesn't agree with me either.

#1580

so in plain english, here's what i was trying to explain

jumped the shark is a well known idiom used to describe the moment of downturn for a previously successful enterprise. The phrase was originally used to denote the point in a television program's history where the plot spins off into absurd story lines or unlikely characterizations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

#1581

That is nice.

I am an English speaker (well, really agricultural American). I have actually never heard that phrase before but it was plain enough for me to understand. It could be that if I were to actually watch TV I would know about it.

TV and MS products are a couple of things I try to avoid.

#1582

as do most of us who hang out here .:lolflag:

#1583

yea, those gnome devs really nuked the fridge on this one.

#1584

ranch hand said: It could be that if I were to actually watch TV I would know about it.

"Jump the shark" is a fairly commonly used phrase, don't know about outside the US. In urban areas you may be as likely to hear somebody use the phrase as to hear it used on TV, but even in urban areas I expect it's not so widely used that you would expect everyone to know it.

Later, Seeker

#1585

Urban area? I think I have heard the phrase.

Actually there is one about 175 miles from here.

#1586

I would not count the chickens until they hatched. :lolflag:

My point is, of course, they may make it work yet, still a good amount of time to go. I suppose feedback would be welcome. They will not know what we like or do not without our input. I plan on joining the IRC and Mailing List.

#1587

That is a good idea. I think that they, currently, are not aware that there are folks that do not, primarily, use the box for "gossip and giggles" (entertainment and "social networking".

#1588

The big problem I have with gnome shell is the veering away from a taskbar. Fair enough, the taskbar but it's just a few pixels high and you can just put it onto one panel with the main menu and that.

I love the way I can be browsing or whatever and simply click straight to the window I want. I don't want to have to do two clicks to do the same thing, I don't want to have to use keyboard shortcuts to bring up an app switcher. I don't quite understand why some people are hell bent on removing the taskbar.

#1589

ranch hand said: That is a good idea. I think that they, currently, are not aware that there are folks that do not, primarily, use the box for "gossip and giggles" (entertainment and "social networking".

yes, i agree with this, seems that everything these days just wants to treat you as a content consumer. while gnome shell makes it easier to consume content, imho it makes it harder to work.

when i'm working my frequently accessed overview is in my brain, i don't need this thing poping up all the time. normaly when i work i have one workspace for latex, one for information, one for web research and one for time out. writing a report i want to switch to another workspace or to a different tab, now they want to make it 2 clicks instead of one, what? and alt tab, sorry, it don't cut it. "Activities" then workspace, nah.

i can see why they want to "removes from view the options that are only used momentarily and are not related to the current application"

but i need to use many applications at the same time. and this extra layer seems to be a case of adding complexity for it's own sake.

so i guess when it comes to gnome shell,

i'm out.

#1590

I usually have 6 dedicated workspaces in use (only 3 right now). It is fast and easy. I like it.

I think they could make GS work as well but they will need to use some of that wasted space on the panel for things folks actually use.

A menu for literate folks would be nice too.

#1591

yea, it seems like someone's really happy with there own personal setup and can't see why everyone don't love it.

#1592

ranch hand said: A menu for literate folks would be nice too.

I probably would have said 'for us 'spatially challenged' folk'.

Aside from the issue of excessive scrolling, I have the same issue with the menu in Gnome Shell as I do with big blocks of text with no spaces or indentations and desktops with excessive amounts of icons.

It's hard for my brain to process. :rolleyes:

Later, Seeker

#1593

yea for the idea of "reducing distractions" to the barest minimum

to result in things like this is crazy....

i mean, where do you start?

#1594

I would say that would be real good for those trained to use cash registers with no numbers but a bunch of pictures on them.

I thing that is the target user group. The ones on the 1D10T list.

#1595

Here's what I have for GNOME Shell:

[ATTACH]153604[/ATTACH]

Basically the default theme with a few things edited. For more information, here's my /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme/gnome-shell.css (the lines edited are in red):


/* Copyright 2009, Red Hat, Inc.
 *
 * Portions adapted from Mx's data/style/default.css
 *   Copyright 2009 Intel Corporation
 *
 * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it
 * under the terms and conditions of the GNU Lesser General Public License,
 * version 2.1, as published by the Free Software Foundation.
 *
 * This program is distributed in the hope it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY
 * WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS
 * FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU Lesser General Public License for
 * more details.
 *
 * You should have received a copy of the GNU Lesser General Public License
 * along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software Foundation,
 * Inc., 51 Franklin St - Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA.
 */

.shell-link {
    color: #0000ff;
    text-decoration: underline;
}

.shell-link:hover {
    color: #0000e0;
}

.label-shadow {
    color: rgba(0,0,0,0.5);
}

StScrollBar
{
  padding: 0px;
}

StScrollView
{
  scrollbar-width: 16px;
  scrollbar-height: 16px;
}

StScrollView > .top-shadow
{
    background-gradient-direction: vertical;
    background-gradient-start: #111111;
    background-gradient-end: rgba(17, 17, 17, 0);
    height: 30px;
}

StScrollView > .bottom-shadow
{
    background-gradient-direction: vertical;
    background-gradient-start: rgba(17, 17, 17, 0);
    background-gradient-end: #111111;
    height: 30px;
}

StScrollBar {
    background-color: #080808;
    border: 1px solid #2d2d2d;
    border-radius: 8px;
}

StScrollBar StButton#vhandle
{
    background-image: url("scroll-vhandle.svg");
    background-color: #252525;
    border: 1px solid #080808;
    border-radius: 8px;
}

StScrollBar StButton#hhandle
{
    background-image: url("scroll-hhandle.svg");
    background-color: #252525;
    border: 1px solid #080808;
    border-radius: 8px;
}

StScrollBar StButton#hhandle:hover,
StScrollBar StButton#vhandle:hover
{
    background-color: #292929;
}

StTooltip {
    border: 1px solid rgba(79,111,173,0.9);
    border-radius: 5px;
    padding: 4px;
    background-color: rgba(79,111,173,0.9);
    color: #ffffff;
}

/* Panel */

#panel {
    color: #ffffff;
    font-size: 16px;
    [color="Red"]background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0.5);[/color]
    border-bottom: 1px solid #1f1f1f;
}

#panelLeft, #panelCenter, #panelRight {
    spacing: 4px;
    font-weight: bold;
}

#panelLeft {
    padding-right: 4px;
}

#panelRight {
    padding-left: 4px;
}

#appMenu {
}

.panel-button {
    padding: 4px 12px 3px;
    border-radius: 5px;
    border-radius-bottomleft: 0px;
    border-radius-bottomright: 0px;
    font: 16px sans-serif;
    font-weight: bold;
}

.panel-button:active, .panel-button:checked, .panel-button:pressed {
    background-gradient-direction: vertical;
    background-gradient-start: #3c3c3c;
    background-gradient-end: #131313;
}

#panelActivities {
    border-radius-topleft: 0px;
}

#panelStatus {
    border-radius-topright: 0px;
}

#statusMenu {
    spacing: 4px;
}

#statusTray {
    spacing: 14px;
}

#statusTray:compact {
    spacing: 8px;
}

/* Overview */

.overview {
    [color="Red"]background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0.5);[/color]
}

.info-bar {
    color: #fff;
    font-size: 14px;
    spacing: 20px;
}

.info-bar-link-button {
    background-color: #2d2d2d;
    padding: 2px 14px;
    border-radius: 10px;
    border: 1px solid #181818;
}

.info-bar-link-button:hover {
    border: 1px solid #666666;
}

.new-workspace-area {
    border: 2px solid rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8);
    border-radius: 10px;
    background-color: #111;
}

.new-workspace-area-internal {
    background-gradient-direction: horizontal;
    background-gradient-start: rgba(16, 16, 16, 0);
    background-gradient-end: rgba(16, 16, 16, 1.0);
    background-image: url("move-window-on-new.svg");
}

.new-workspace-area:hover {
    border: 2px solid rgba(255, 255, 255, 1.0);
    background-gradient-direction: horizontal;
    background-gradient-start: rgba(130, 130, 130, 0.9);
    background-gradient-end: rgba(16, 16, 16, 0.9);
}

.left-workspaces-shadow {
    background-gradient-direction: horizontal;
    background-gradient-start: rgba(16, 16, 16, 1.0);
    background-gradient-end: rgba(16, 16, 16, 0.0);
}

.right-workspaces-shadow {
    background-gradient-direction: horizontal;
    background-gradient-end: rgba(16, 16, 16, 1.0);
    background-gradient-start: rgba(16, 16, 16, 0);
}

.workspaces {
    color: white;
}

.workspaces.single {
    spacing: 25px;
}

.workspaces.mosaic {
    spacing: 15px;
}

.workspaces-bar {
    height: 48px;
}

.workspaces-bar {
    spacing: 5px;
}

.workspace-indicator {
    width: 24px;
    height: 16px;
    background: rgba(155,155,155,0.8);
    border-spacing: 16px;
}

.workspace-indicator.active {
    background: rgba(255,255,255,0.8);
}

.window-caption {
    background: rgba(0,0,0,0.8);
    border: 1px solid rgba(128,128,128,0.40);
    border-radius: 10px;
    font-size: 12px;
    padding: 2px 8px;
    -shell-caption-spacing: 4px;
}

.window-close {
    background-image: url("close-window.svg");
    height: 24px;
    width: 24px;
    -st-shadow: -2px 2px 6px rgba(0,0,0,0.5);
    -shell-close-overlap: 16px;
}

.single-view-controls {
    padding: 0px 15px;
}

.workspace-controls {
    width: 24px;
    height: 16px;
}

.workspace-controls.add {
    background-image: url("add-workspace.svg");
}

.workspace-controls.remove {
    background-image: url("remove-workspace.svg");
}

.workspace-controls.switch-single {
    background-image: url("single-view.svg");
}

.workspace-controls.switch-mosaic {
    background-image: url("mosaic-view.svg");
}

.workspace-controls.switch-single:checked {
    background-image: url("single-view-active.svg");
}

.workspace-controls.switch-mosaic:checked {
    background-image: url("mosaic-view-active.svg");
}

#SwitchScroll {
    height: 14px;
}

#SwitchScroll #hhandle {
    border-radius: 7px;
}

/* Dash */

#dash {
    color: #5f5f5f;
    font-size: 12px;
    padding: 0px 14px;
}

#dashSections {
    spacing: 12px;
}

#searchEntry {
    padding: 4px;
    border-radius: 4px;
    color: #a8a8a8;
    border: 1px solid #565656;
    background-color: #404040;
    caret-color: #fff;
    caret-size: 1px;
    height: 16px;
}

#searchEntry:focus {
    color: #545454;
    border: 1px solid #3a3a3a;
    background-color: #e8e8e8;
    caret-color: #545454;
}

#searchEntry:hover {
    border: 1px solid #767676;
}

.dash-section {
    spacing: 8px;
}

.section-header {
}

.section-header-inner {
    spacing: 4px;
}

.section-text-content {
    padding: 4px 0px;
}

.section-header-back {
    padding: 0px 4px 0px 0px;
    border-right: 1px solid #262626;
}

.section-header-back-image {
    background-image: url("section-back.svg");
    width: 12px;
    height: 16px;
}

.section-count {
}

.dash-section-content {
    color: #ffffff;
    spacing: 8px;
}

.more-link {
}

.more-link-expander {
    background-image: url("section-more.svg");
    width: 9px;
    height: 9px;
}

.more-link-expander.open {
    background-image: url("section-more-open.svg");
    width: 9px;
    height: 9px;
}

.dash-pane {
    border-radius: 10px;
    background-color: #111111;
    border: 2px solid #868686;
    color: #ffffff;
    padding: 30px 10px 10px 20px;
}

.dash-search-section-header {
    padding: 6px 0px;
    spacing: 4px;
}

.dash-search-section-results {
    color: #ffffff;
}

.dash-search-section-list-results {
    spacing: 4px;
}

.dash-search-result-content {
    padding: 3px;
}

.dash-search-result-content:selected {
    padding: 2px;
    border: 1px solid #5c5c5c;
    border-radius: 2px;
    background-color: #1e1e1e;
}

.dash-results-container {
    spacing: 4px;
}

/* GenericDisplay */

.generic-display-container {
    spacing: 4px;
}

.generic-display-item {
    height: 50px;
    border-radius: 4px;
    color: #ffffff;
    font-size: 14px;
    spacing: 4px;
}

.generic-display-item:selected {
    background-color: rgba(79,111,173,0.66);
}

.generic-display-item-text {
    spacing: 4px;
}

.generic-display-item-description {
    font-size: 12px;
    color: #bababa;
}

.generic-display-details {
    font-size: 14px;
    color: #ffffff;
}

.generic-display-details-name {
    font-weight: bold;
}

/* Apps */

.overview-pane {
    width: 440px;
}

#dashAppWell {
    spacing: 6px;
    -shell-grid-item-size: 70px;
}

.all-app {
    border-radius: 10px;
    [color="Red"]background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0.5);[/color]
    border: 2px solid #868686;
    color: #ffffff;
}

.all-app-controls-panel {
    height: 30px;
}

.all-app-scroll-view {
    padding-right: 10px;
    padding-left: 10px;
    padding-bottom: 10px;
}

.app-well-app {
    border: 1px solid #181818;
    border-radius: 4px;
    padding: 2px;
    width: 70px;
    height: 70px;
    font-size: 10px;
}

.app-well-app.running {
    background-gradient-direction: vertical;
    background-gradient-start: #3d3d3d;
    background-gradient-end: #181818;
}

.app-well-app.selected {
    border: 1px solid #666666;
}

.app-well-app:hover {
    border: 1px solid #666666;
}

.app-well-app:active {
    background-color: #1e1e1e;
    border: 1px solid #5f5f5f;
}

.app-well-menu {
    border: 1px solid #5f5f5f;
    border-radius: 4px;
    padding: 4px;
    background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0.9);
    color: #ffffff;
    spacing: 4px;
}

.app-well-menu-arrow {
    border-color: #5f5f5f;
    color: rgba(0,0,0,0.9);
    width: 12px;
}

.app-well-menu-item:hover {
    background-color: #1e1e1e;
}

.app-well-menu-separator {
    padding-top: 1px;
    border-bottom: 1px solid #5f5f5f;
    height: 1px;
}

/* Places */

.places-section {
    spacing-columns: 4px;
    spacing-rows: 4px;
}

.places-item-box {
    spacing: 4px;
}

.places-item {
    border-radius: 4px;
    padding: 2px;
    border: 1px solid #181818;
}

.places-item:hover {
    border: 1px solid #666666;
}

/* Recent items */

.recent-docs-item-box {
    spacing: 4px;
}

.recent-docs-item {
    border-radius: 4px;
    padding: 2px;
    border: 1px solid #181818;
}

.recent-docs-item:hover {
    border: 1px solid #666666;
}

/* LookingGlass */

#LookingGlassDialog
{
  background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0.85);
  spacing: 4px;
  padding: 4px;
  border: 1px solid rgba(0,0,172,0.85);
  border-radius: 4px;

  color: #88ff66;
}

#LookingGlassDialog > #Toolbar
{
  border: 1px solid grey;
  border-radius: 4px;
}

#LookingGlassDialog .labels {
  spacing: 4px;
}

#LookingGlassDialog .notebook-tab {
  padding: 2px;
}

#LookingGlassDialog .notebook-tab:selected {
  border: 1px solid #88ff66;
  padding: 1px;
}

#LookingGlassDialog StLabel
{
  color: #88ff66;
}

#LookingGlassDialog StEntry
{
  color: #88ff66;
}

#LookingGlassDialog StBoxLayout#EvalBox
{
  padding: 4px;
  spacing: 4px;
}

#LookingGlassDialog StBoxLayout#ResultsArea
{
  spacing: 4px;
}

#lookingGlassExtensions {
    padding: 4px;
}

.lg-extension-list {
    padding: 4px;
    spacing: 6px;
}

.lg-extension {
    border: 1px solid #6f6f6f;
    border-radius: 4px;
    padding: 4px;
}

.lg-extension-name {
    font-weight: bold;
}

.lg-extension-actions {
    spacing: 6px;
}

/* Calendar popup */

#calendarPopup {
    border-radius: 5px;
    background: rgba(0,0,0,0.9);
    border: 1px solid rgba(128,128,128,0.45);
    color: white;
   [color="Red"] background-color: rgba(0,0,0,0.5);[/color]
}

#calendarPopup .calendar {
    padding: 10px;
}

.calendar {
    spacing-rows: 5px;
    spacing-columns: 3px;
}

.calendar-change-month {
    padding: 2px;
}

.calendar-change-month:hover {
    background: #314a6c;
    border-radius: 5px;
}

.calendar-change-month:active {
    background: #213050;
    border-radius: 5px;
}

.calendar-day {
    padding: 1px 2px;
}

.calendar-today {
    font-weight: bold;
    background: #ffffff;
    color: black;
    border-radius: 5px;
}

.calendar-other-month-day {
    color: #cccccc;
}

/* Message Tray */
#message-tray {
    background-gradient-direction: vertical;
    background-gradient-start: rgba(0,0,0,0.01);
    background-gradient-end: rgba(0,0,0,0.95);
    height: 28px;
}

#notification {
    font-size: 16px;
    border-radius: 5px 5px 0px 0px;
    /* FIXME: currently StWidget can only draw non-uniform corners
     * if the background is a gradient. So, we draw a gradient
     * from black to black...
     */
    background-gradient-direction: vertical;
    background-gradient-start: rgba(0,0,0,0.9);
    background-gradient-end: rgba(0,0,0,0.9);
    color: white;
    padding: 2px 10px 10px 10px;
    spacing-rows: 5px;
    spacing-columns: 10px;
    max-width: 40em;
}

#summary-notification-bin #notification {
    /* message-tray.height + notification.padding-bottom */
    padding-bottom: 38px;
}

#notification-scrollview {
    max-height: 10em;
}

#notification-scrollview > .top-shadow, #notification-scrollview > .bottom-shadow {
    height: 1em;
}

#notification-body {
    spacing: 5px;
}

#notification-actions {
    spacing: 5px;
}

.notification-button {
    border: 2px rgba(0,0,0,0.0);
    border-radius: 5px;
    padding: 5px;
    background: #c0c0c0;
    color: black;
    font-weight: bold;
}

.notification-button:hover {
    border: 2px solid white;
}

.notification-button:active {
    border: 2px solid white;
    background: #808080;
}

.chat-received {
    background-gradient-direction: horizontal;
    background-gradient-start: #606060;
    background-gradient-end: #000000;

    min-width: 20em;
}

.chat-sent {
    background-gradient-direction: horizontal;
    background-gradient-start: #000000;
    background-gradient-end: #606060;
}

.chat-response {
    border: 1px solid white;
}

/* The spacing and padding on the summary is tricky; we want to keep
 * the icons from touching each other or the edges of the screen, but
 * we also want them to be "Fitts"-y with respect to the edges, so the
 * summary area's bottom and right padding must actually be part of
 * the icons. However, we can't put *all* of the padding into the
 * icons, because then the summary would be 0x0 when there were no
 * icons in it, and so you wouldn't be able to hover over it to
 * activate it.
 *
 * The padding-right on the non-rightmost icons is noticeable and
 * slightly annoying. If StBoxLayout implemented the ":last-child"
 * pseudo-class we could fix that...
 */
#summary-mode {
    spacing: 6px;
    padding: 2px 0px 0px 4px;
}

.summary-icon  {
    padding: 0px 4px 2px 0px;
}

/* App Switcher */
#altTabPopup {
    padding: 8px;
    spacing: 16px;
}

.switcher-list {
    background: rgba(0,0,0,0.8);
    border: 1px solid rgba(128,128,128,0.40);
    border-radius: 8px;
    padding: 18px;

    font: 12px sans-serif;
    color: white;
}

.switcher-list-item-container {
    spacing: 8px;
}

.thumbnail-scroll-gradient-left {
    background-gradient-direction: horizontal;
    background-gradient-start: rgba(51, 51, 51, 1.0);
    background-gradient-end: rgba(51, 51, 51, 0);
    border-radius: 8px;
    width: 60px;
}

.thumbnail-scroll-gradient-right {
    background-gradient-direction: horizontal;
    background-gradient-start: rgba(51, 51, 51, 0);
    background-gradient-end: rgba(51, 51, 51, 1.0);
    border-radius: 8px;
    width: 60px;
}

.switcher-list .item-box {
    padding: 8px;
    border-radius: 4px;
}

.switcher-list .thumbnail-box {
    padding: 2px;
    spacing: 4px;
}

.switcher-list .thumbnail {
    width:  256px;
}

.switcher-list .outlined-item-box {
    padding: 6px;
    border: 2px solid rgba(85,85,85,1.0);
    border-radius: 4px;
}

.switcher-list .selected-item-box {
    padding: 8px;
    border-radius: 4px;
    background: rgba(255,255,255,0.33);
}

.switcher-list .separator {
    width: 1px;
    background: rgba(255,255,255,0.33);
}

.ripple-box {
    width: 52px;
    height: 52px;
    background-image: url("corner-ripple.png");
}

.switcher-arrow {
    border-color: rgba(0,0,0,0);
    color: #808080;
}

.switcher-arrow:highlighted {
    border-color: rgba(0,0,0,0);
    color: white;
}

/* Workspace Switcher */
.workspace-switcher-container {
    background: rgba(0,0,0,0.8);
    border: 1px solid rgba(128,128,128,0.40);
    border-radius: 8px;
    padding: 12px;
}

.workspace-switcher {
    background: transparent;
    border: 0px;
    border-radius: 0px;
    padding: 4px;
    spacing: 4.5px;
}

.ws-switcher-active-left {
    height: 98px;
    border: 0px;
    background: rgba(255,255,255,0.5);
    background-image: url("ws-switch-arrow-left.svg");
    border-radius: 4px;
}

.ws-switcher-active-right {
    height: 98px;
    border: 0px;
    background: rgba(255,255,255,0.5);
    background-image: url("ws-switch-arrow-right.svg");
    border-radius: 4px;
}

.ws-switcher-box {
    height: 96px;
    border: 2px solid rgba(85,85,85,0.5);
    background: transparent;
    border-radius: 4px;
}

/* Run Dialog */
.run-dialog-label {
    font: 12px sans-serif;
    color: white;
}

.run-dialog-error-icon {
    background-image: url("dialog-error.svg");
    width: 36px;
    height: 36px;
}

.run-dialog-error-label {
    font: 16px sans-serif;
    color: white;
}

.run-dialog-entry {
    font: 14px sans-serif;
    font-weight: bold;
    width: 320px;
    color: white;
}

.run-dialog {
    padding: 8px;
    border: 1px solid rgba(128,128,128,0.40);
    border-radius: 4px;
    background: rgba(0,0,0,0.8);
}

.lightbox {
    background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.27);
}

As you can see, those four edits make four integral parts of GNOME Shell - the panel, the overview, the All Apps menu, and the Calendar Popup - transparent with RGBA.

#1596

I am not sure about GS, mainly because I am not really seeing what -really- you get out of it. I see how you could use it, although admittedly I am not a Gnome user by choice as I prefer KDE and when I fiddled with the Canonical supplied version of GS, I had the following set up:

XFCE + GS + KDE supplied nepomuk. But I didn't get *any* kind of application menu, or last used documents or whatever and the search function simply did not work at all either.

Needless to say when the inevitable wipe occurred I didn't bother with GS or Gnome.

For me, I think the best approach is to wait until some distribution deems GS sufficiently stable to stick on a Live environment. Then see if it works any better for me than Alt+F2, plus a few Desktop effects on KDE.

#1597

Directive 4 said: now they want to make it 2 clicks instead of one, what? and alt tab, sorry, it don't cut it.

"Activities" then workspace, nah. That's not correct and it shows you haven't used it properly. The hot corner you don't have to click so it is actually exactly the same as Gnome-Panels you slide to the appropriate spot and then click what you want. 1 click and the jobs done in both G-S and Panels.

#1598

I'm a little late to the conversation, I know what "jump the shark" means, this:

In addition to making workspaces more intuitive gnome shell flys pigs

was the part I was wondering about.

#1599

k3lt01 said: That's not correct and it shows you haven't used it properly. The hot corner you don't have to click so it is actually exactly the same as Gnome-Panels you slide to the appropriate spot and then click what you want. 1 click and the jobs done in both G-S and Panels.

ok, my bad, you don't click, you move the mouse up there then move the mouse to the workspace you want and click, still 2 actions instead of one. on my setup i move the mouse over the workspace i want and click, one action

cariboo907 said: I'm a little late to the conversation, I know what "jump the shark" means, this:

Quote: In addition to making workspaces more intuitive gnome shell flys pigs

was the part I was wondering about.

ok A flying pig is an adynaton, that is a figure of speech in the form of hyperbole taken to such extreme lengths as to suggest a complete impossibility. Thus the popular saying that something will happen "when pigs fly" or "when pigs have wings" means that the thing is an impossibility.

as in gnome shell will make workspaces more intuitive "when pigs fly"

#1600

And here I thought it had something to do with Pink Floyd. :)

#1601

pink floyd are good,

:guitar:

ok back to gnome shell,

imho the [B]Activities button

[/B]and the way it presents you with, well, everthing is like picture 1,

much better is picture 2,

#1602

Directive 4 said: ok, my bad, you don't click, you move the mouse up there then move the mouse to the workspace you want and click, still 2 actions instead of one. on my setup i move the mouse over the workspace i want and click, one actionYou are quiet good with colourful speech, not bad language just overly metaphorical, yet accuracy isn't one of your fortes.

Having used G-S quite extensively over the last few months I don't find the mouse movement to be 2 separate actions. I "swing" (trying to be colourful :lolflag:) the mouse (or in the case of my laptop, slide my thumb on the touchpad) in a circular motion, it's 1 movement, then I click. So 2 movements is all I need.

I understand some won't and don't like G-S but I suppose in PC land (still trying to be colourful) it's each to his/her own.

#1603

k3lt01 said: You are quiet good with colourful speech, not bad language just overly metaphorical, yet accuracy isn't one of your fortes.

Having used G-S quite extensively over the last few months I don't find the mouse movement to be 2 separate actions. I "swing" (trying to be colourful :lolflag:) the mouse (or in the case of my laptop, slide my thumb on the touchpad) in a circular motion, it's 1 movement, then I click. So 2 movements is all I need.

I understand some won't and don't like G-S but I suppose in PC land (still trying to be colourful) it's each to his/her own.

yea, so this idea is being pushed a lot, but i just don't buy it.

i'm quoting here from http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Tour

"The hot corner is a fast and easy way to get to the frequently accessed overview."

(imho 1 action)

more quotes "the view of what is on all workspaces allows the user to pick a window to switch to in a single step regardless of whether it is located on the same or different workspace as the user's previous activity."

so, another single step from the activities screen which was a step to get to.

"Similarly, single step switching is available in the Alt+Tab dialog which shows applications open on all workspaces."

again, this idea of it being a single step, after alt + tab, which of course makes 2 steps.

#1604

more feedback.

i guess it all comes down to how people work, or play...

i work by taking information from papers and the web and puting it into a txt file for later latex'in, i have many web pages open, many research papers open and information needs to be copied and pasted (fiqures, spelling as i'm really bad at that) so the idea of 1 task or activity (i,e writing a report) only requiring one application for me doesn't work.

certain points have to be looked into before continuing, so i change to workspace web, look about. or reread a paper etc. then write what i want, for me this is all one task.

i allways use the same order of the 4 workspaces for the different sections, (latex, info, web, etc) all coming together to make the task. so the frequent overview is a bit of a waste for me

maybe others work different and i have to say, gnome has room for change but one of the reasons i like it is because it's simple.

#1605

Gnome shell is a project with the goal of making the most hideous desktop environment ever. Second only to windows xp.

#1606

Directive 4 said: yea, so this idea is being pushed a lot, but i just don't buy it.You don't have to buy it, it's free. Have your opinion just understand that not everyone agrees with you.

I myself know how many movements I make for each action just like you know how many movements you make for each action. I suppose there will be some who aren't as dexterous, nimble, and nubile as me :P . The important thing to understand is we are all different.

P.S. Practice makes perfect.

#1607

The thumbnail Directive 4 posted above .. might make a good logo for Gnome Shell :(

#1608

k3lt01 said: You don't have to buy it, it's free. Have your opinion just understand that not everyone agrees with you.

I myself know how many movements I make for each action just like you know how many movements you make for each action. I suppose there will be some who aren't as dexterous, nimble, and nubile as me :P . The important thing to understand is we are all different.

P.S. Practice makes perfect.

yea, that's good, cause i won't be.

with your logic i could say firin up the cube then spinin to the workspace i want is one action,

it is however one action i don't take, nice to be able to mind, and we've all did it, but every time i want to switch. no. if i want to switch, i do. like opening a can of coke, you can't go half way there and stop... it's open, or it's not.

seems to me like that paperclip from ms word has achieved *self realization *and decided that instead of annoying windows users it's going to take down gnome, and by proxy, ubuntu.

i think all gnome shell dev's should have to undertake a [B]Captcha :lolflag: [/B]

#1609

Hey guys, just tested out gnome shell on lucid. pretty awesome, i hope they implement it on 10.10, because it's a jump to the future :D. anyway, it's pretty fast, however there's one bug that annoys me. At least it looks like a bug. First time i boot with shell, everything was cool. But next times, my gnome-volume applet was missing. also the mail was gonne from the tray. Only wireless left.

btw, about the minimize and close buttons... i hate them on the right side. lol...i'm so addicted to have them on the left, can't stand it :D

#1610

Directive 4 said: yea, that's good, cause i won't be.

with your logic i could say firin up the cube then spinin to the workspace i want is one action,

it is however one action i don't take, nice to be able to mind, and we've all did it, but every time i want to switch. no. if i want to switch, i do. like opening a can of coke, you can't go half way there and stop... it's open, or it's not.

seems to me like that paperclip from ms word has achieved *self realization *and decided that instead of annoying windows users it's going to take down gnome, and by proxy, ubuntu.

i think all gnome shell dev's should have to undertake a [B]Captcha :lolflag: [/B]I must be having a bad day I think.

Very little of that makes any sense.

You don't like G-S, that's nice, we understand although someone felt the need to translate for you.

If you had been keeping up with Gnome you would know and understand that you will still be able to use 2.x (Gnome-Panels) if you want to. So there is no need to worry about Ubuntu's future because of G-S.

Now you have expressed your opinion is it ok if people who do like it get back to discussing it without colourfully metaphorical speech popping up every second reply telling us how crap something we like is? Some of us are trying to assist the devs make it better.

#1611

oh sorry, didn't realise that discussion was limited to people of a certain viewpoint.:rolleyes:

If you had been keeping up with what many people are saying it's the new members who won't know about gnome 2.

Never be so successful that no one will ever tell you the truth, even (or especially) in a situation where hearing the truth is uncongenial but crucial. . . . .

#1612

Directive 4 said: oh sorry, didn't realise that discussion was limited to people of a certain viewpoint.:rolleyes:

If you had been keeping up with what many people are saying it's the new members who won't know about gnome 2.

Never be so successful that no one will ever tell you the truth, even (or especially) in a situation where hearing the truth is uncongenial but crucial. . . . . This is not limitted, There are several of us that differ on the merits and de-merits of GS.

This is not however one of the threads in Community Discussions where, appearently, the one who screams the loudest wins.

The idea here is to share information (and opinion) in a useful manner. Repeating the same thing, in a shrill manner, gets very old, very quickly.

This is a fast changing project, no one has any real idea of the final product, hollering about the doom of gnome and Ubuntu based on that is also a little silly.

If you have read the entire thread you will see many differing opinions on here. You will also see civility and people with very different opinions helping one another with basic problems in using, and modifying a pre release desktop.

Join in, read the thread, there is no need to make it longer with bickering. There is a mailing list and so forth if you want to express your opinion to folks that actually have some say over what does and does not go into GS.

#1613

Anyone who doesn't use workspaces and doesn't appreciate his recent documents visible to everyone who passes by will find most of shell's features useless, and since it takes away compiz and gnome-panel applets, they'll further concluded that it's another layer to gnome that doesn't add anything for them and takes quite a few things away.

Though ive already stated my opinions, im relieved to see i'm not the only who feels this is an aberration of gnome.

What scares me the most is if this is imposed as of gnome 3, i'll be forced to either stick with old gnome or go xfce.

#1614

I tried to like Gnome Shell. I really did. I used it on Karmic for 10 days, exclusively. I dislike it immensely. I see no real purpose for it except as an option if desired. Seems that won't be the case though. If this is the direction Gnome 3 will be taking, then I'll need to get use to using the closest thing to Gnome in it's current state...XFCE. Or maybe give LXDE a spin. In any event, Gnome Shell just is not something I'd ever use.

The statement from HolidayQueen above sums it up for me, quite well. *"Anyone who doesn't use workspaces and doesn't appreciate his recent documents visible to everyone who passes by will find most of shell's features useless, and since it takes away compiz and gnome-panel applets, they'll further concluded that it's another layer to gnome that doesn't add anything for them and takes quite a few things away."*

#1615

I am not sure about the workspaces thing in the last 2 posts at all. I use 6 just about full all the time.

I have found that dealing with work spaces in GS very cumbersome and awkward compared to using the current set up.

Lubuntu, by the way is looking pretty good. I definitely like pcmanfs better than thunar.

#1616

ranch hand said: Lubuntu, by the way is looking pretty good. I definitely like pcmanfs better than thunar.

Indeed. The only thing lacking is thumbnail generation for videos. A showstopper for me.

Sorry to take the thread off topic........

#1617

yea, i think they've got there definition of an activity wrong,

seems to be like for them one activity is one application,

but, for me, that's not true.

oh, and here some compare pictures from some iphone ideas

#1618

This discussion should really be in a separate thread, as Ranch Hand said this is a technical thread to help solve gnome-shell problems. If you feel the need to continue this off topic discussion please start a thread in the appropriate place.

That being said I have a problem with virtualbox when ever I start an other os, it starts up under the overlay, intermittently. Sometimes it is on the desktop and other times I see nothing, but I do hear the start up sound when XP starts, clicking the show button does nothing. Has anyone else run into this problem.

#1619

cariboo907 said: This discussion should really be in a separate thread, as Ranch Hand said this is a technical thread to help solve gnome-shell problems. If you feel the need to continue this off topic discussion please start a thread in the appropriate place.

I'd hate to get technical on you, but the thread is titled Gnome Shell, and not "Gnome Shell Technical Issues".

And since our comments do relate to Gnome Shell's functionality, i still don't see how they would not apply here.

#1620

Most of the posts are personal opinion's so really, they don't belong here.

#1621

Well any discussion does tend to be each person's opinion. But I seem to be seeing more and more back-chatting and sniping at each other lately in these forums. I feel like I'm back at the call of duty forums.

I think everyone needs to stop telling each other whether they are right or wrong and maybe concentrate on the actual "features" of GS. Disagreeing is fine and natural and part of the discussion but disagreeing and telling the other party the are wrong to disagree is just leading to a thread lock.

Anyway, back on topic. I can't help feeling the whole gnome-shell thing is an attempt to add a bit of "flashiness" to compete with KDE, MAC etc without actually wanting to make any major changes to gnome itself.

I dunno, if gnome shell remains an OPTION (or even default but with an option to change it) then I will never have a problem with it. If it is forced upon me I will need to take a long hard look at things then.

#1622

x-shaney-x said: Anyway, back on topic.

I can't help feeling the whole gnome-shell thing is an attempt to add a bit of "flashiness" to compete with KDE, MAC etc without actually wanting to make any major changes to gnome itself.

I think it's a pretty major change. Also, there are a hell of a lot of changes under the hood that people won't realise.

#1623

Screen garbage with nouveau here, but I guess this is expected.

#1624

Why is this thread in this forum? This is about a package that may be two releases away from being included.

Although I'm not sure where it should go, *Lucid Lynx Testing and Discussion *doesn't seem proper to me.

Wow, I thought the button controversy was overblown. I can't begin to grok this.

#1625

why I can't install gnome-shell in lucid?

#1626

djchandler said: Why is this thread in this forum? This is about a package that may be two releases away from being included.

Although I'm not sure where it should go, *Lucid Lynx Testing and Discussion *doesn't seem proper to me.

Wow, I thought the button controversy was overblown. I can't begin to grok this.

Well since it is included in the repos it is there to be used and tested so that makes it part of Lucid and so open for discussion. I know what you're getting at but it is discussion and testing now that may well shape how it actually turns out in those two or so releases from now. Much of the discussion is overblown but that is because people who really don't like it are maybe concerned they are going to be FORCED to use it. The thing with the buttons was a bit overblown I would say because it is simply a default that can very easily be changed.

#1627

tanari said: why I can't install gnome-shell in lucid?

If you have 3d accelerated hardware and can run Compiz; you can try the Gnome Shell. To get the older, more stable Gnome Shell click here: apt://gnome-shell

One command to rule them all to install up-to-date Gnome Shell on Ubuntu:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ricotz/testing && sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude install gnome-shell
#1628

x-shaney-x said:

I can't help feeling the whole gnome-shell thing is an attempt to add a bit of "flashiness" to compete with KDE, MAC etc without actually wanting to make any major changes to gnome itself.

That pretty much hits it on the nose. Although im definately not a fan of KDE (even kde 4) a lot of gnome developers seem to be looking at it with envy. What's ironic is that their attempts to compete by reinventing gnome might just send a good chunk of gnome users to other DE's.

#1629

tanari said: why I can't install gnome-shell in lucid?You can (or should be able to) I even mention Lucid in the first post

djchandler said: Why is this thread in this forum? This is about a package that may be two releases away from being included.

Although I'm not sure where it should go, *Lucid Lynx Testing and Discussion *doesn't seem proper to me.

Wow, I thought the button controversy was overblown. I can't begin to grok this.When I first wrote this thread, which I believe was one of the first threads for Lucid Lynx Testing and Discussion, it was before GNOME Shell had a release date. As such I thought GNOME Shell would be one of the things that Lucid might have as an option, though too early to tell. I'll make sure to try and bring it up at UDS if it's not already a topic. Given its current release of September 2010, Ubuntu 10.10 may have it as an option. I also figured the sort of people that would build/install/test alphas and betas of a new DE would be the sort of people that would build/install/test alphas and betas of Ubuntu.

#1630

Merk42 said: You can (or should be able to) I even mention Lucid in the first post

When I first wrote this thread, which I believe was one of the first threads for Lucid Lynx Testing and Discussion, it was before GNOME Shell had a release date. As such I thought GNOME Shell would be one of the things that Lucid might have as an option, though too early to tell. I'll make sure to try and bring it up at UDS if it's not already a topic. Given its current release of September 2010, Ubuntu 10.10 may have it as an option. I also figured the sort of people that would build/install/test alphas and betas of a new DE would be the sort of people that would build/install/test alphas and betas of Ubuntu. What Merk is trying to say is that this is the right place for this because the folks that upgrade to the toolchain are the really adventuresome folks that are going to try this and stick with it even if they don't particularly like it.

Heck, it is kind of like politics, if you don't run it (vote) you gote no right to complain about the out come.

#1631

Directive 4 said: yea, i think they've got there definition of an activity wrong,

seems to be like for them one activity is one application,

but, for me, that's not true.

It would take some significant work to make it make sense to think of an activity any other way.

A way to create a launcher that will launch multiple applications as a group, single task item for the group, ability to move the group of applications to another workspace, close the group down all at once, etc....

Unless you are one of those thinking what gnome-shell currently calls a workspace should have been activity and what gnome-shell calls an activity should be called something else?

Or something else?

Later, Seeker

#1632

guys, i have my shell installed from the source, to make sure i'm updated. anyway, it works great, however i tried to add it as my default manager. I went to gconf-editor Desktop/gnome/sessions/requiredcomponents/ and in window manager i deleted "metacity" and replaced with "gnome-shell". i reboot the computer and all the stuff was messed, seemed to have both running. neither matacity or shell runned well. had to revert to metacity again.

Don't know if this matters, when i first installed gnome shell, it was from their repos (and it worked replacing on gconf). today i used synaptic to remove it, and installed it again building from source. and now can't add it to startup

#1633

UpSignal said: guys, i have my shell installed from the source, to make sure i'm updated. anyway, it works great, however i tried to add it as my default manager. I went to gconf-editor Desktop/gnome/sessions/requiredcomponents/

and in window manager i deleted "metacity" and replaced with "gnome-shell". i reboot the computer and all the stuff was messed, seemed to have both running. neither matacity or shell runned well. had to revert to metacity again.

Don't know if this matters, when i first installed gnome shell, it was from their repos (and it worked replacing on gconf). today i used synaptic to remove it, and installed it again building from source. and now can't add it to startup

I don't do it by default myself, but try what I wrote in the first post:

Merk42 said: If you want to make it your default, put "gnome-shell --replace" in your Startup Items

#1634

UpSignal said: Don't know if this matters, when i first installed gnome shell, it was from their repos (and it worked replacing on gconf). today i used synaptic to remove it, and installed it again building from source. and now can't add it to startup

Presumably, if you are installing from source, gnome-shell is not going to be in your path, so you have to specify the path where the executable is found with the executable '/path/to/gnome-shell' instead of instead of just the executable 'gnome-shell'.

Later, Seeker

#1635

seeker5528 said: It would take some significant work to make it make sense to think of an activity any other way.

A way to create a launcher that will launch multiple applications as a group, single task item for the group, ability to move the group of applications to another workspace, close the group down all at once, etc....

Unless you are one of those thinking what gnome-shell currently calls a workspace should have been activity and what gnome-shell calls an activity should be called something else?

Or something else?

Later, Seeker

yea,

it's just for me one task (or activity) is lots of different applications, grouped by workspaces, all coming together to complete the task. i don't move applications to different workspaces, each group of apps has there own workspace,

as in browers, latex'in, pdf's and such, all of which together i call an activity.

but hey, i've just realised,

maybe what they are tryin to do is sort out the mess that is most peoples desktop, you know with random launchers everywhere. (unlike most desktops i've seen mines 100% clean unless i plug in a usb stick)

and with the iphone gen coming throu, maybe they'll pull it off, but...

it's to late for me, i'm already 30 years old, need a walking stick, just want my phone to call people, and i want it to make a ringing sound.

#1636

Directive 4 said: yea,

it's just for me one task (or activity) is lots of different applications, grouped by workspaces, all coming together to complete the task. i don't move applications to different workspaces, each group of apps has there own workspace,

as in browers, latex'in, pdf's and such, all of which together i call an activity.

but hey, i've just realised,

maybe what they are tryin to do is sort out the mess that is most peoples desktop, you know with random launchers everywhere. (unlike most desktops i've seen mines 100% clean unless i plug in a usb stick)

and with the iphone gen coming throu, maybe they'll pull it off, but...

it's to late for me, i'm already 30 years old, need a walking stick, just want my phone to call people, and i want it to make a ringing sound. My God you are getting so Old.

Just couldn't resist, my son is a good bit older than you are.

#1637

HolidayQueen said: That pretty much hits it on the nose. Although im definately not a fan of KDE (even kde 4) a lot of gnome developers seem to be looking at it with envy. What's ironic is that their attempts to compete by reinventing gnome might just send a good chunk of gnome users to other DE's.

I'm pretty sure this is not the case at all. gnome-shell doesn't copy anything from anything that currently exists.

#1638

ranch hand said: My God you are getting so Old.

Just couldn't resist, my son is a good bit older than you are.I'm a good deal older than D4 is, lol.

D4, I understand your definition of Activity but I also think you have lumbered to much in it. What you have is a "task group" made up of more than 1 activity that are used together to facilitate the completion of a task.

#1639

Does anyone else have the buttons on the right when running gnome-shell and on the left when running a normal desktop?

#1640

Sorry Cariboo I'm running G-S on my Karmic desktop so it's all on the right side for me.

I'll go and update Lucid now and use G-S on that, hopefully it may work and if it does I'll report back.

Edit: I can't get G-S to work in Lucid on my laptop. G-S seems to be to resource hungry for such a miniscule machine.

#1641

GS Ran almost perfectly on my Lucid Install. However some things did not work. Im not 100% sure if theya re becuase of GS, but they did stop working as soon as it was installed. I was unable to burn Audio CDs and Unable to open NetBeans. Apart from that It is awesome and i am still using it. It is very different to default gnome and thats why i like it. However Chaning the appearance of it would be awesome, Im going to investigate changing the styles and see if i can write an app to change everything.

#1642

There are several themes available right here in this thread. I suggest getting a few so that you can see how it is done.

No sense in re inventing the wheel and many of them are very nice.

#1643

cariboo907 said: Does anyone else have the buttons on the right when running gnome-shell and on the left when running a normal desktop?

Yes, I believe it has to do with Mutter taking control of the button order instead of Metacity

#1644

Hmm I don't have that problem. Maybe it's related to themes?

Also to people who have a very specific idea or change, don't be afraid to file a bug. Since there's a lot going on it may take awhile for you to see any response, and even longer to see any sort of action, but I have had things worked on (and partially implemented, like the notification summary on icon hover in the tray). Include mockups if you can, and don't be afraid to comment on other peoples' reports that you also agree with. The more responses a bug gets the more likely it is to be worked on swiftly.

#1645

my buttons are on the right in lucid with mutter. switching back to metacity puts them on the left again.

#1646

Yeah, makes sense. I was using a theme that always had them on the right, so there's no way I would have noticed.

#1647

I like them on the left. My metacity has them on the left. When I switch over to check out gnome-shell, is there a way I can have them set on the left?

#1648

Uncle Spellbinder said: I tried to like Gnome Shell. I really did. I used it on Karmic for 10 days, exclusively. I dislike it immensely. I see no real purpose for it except as an option if desired. Seems that won't be the case though. If this is the direction Gnome 3 will be taking, then I'll need to get use to using the closest thing to Gnome in it's current state...XFCE. Or maybe give LXDE a spin. In any event, Gnome Shell just is not something I'd ever use.

The statement from HolidayQueen above sums it up for me, quite well. *"Anyone who doesn't use workspaces and doesn't appreciate his recent documents visible to everyone who passes by will find most of shell's features useless, and since it takes away compiz and gnome-panel applets, they'll further concluded that it's another layer to gnome that doesn't add anything for them and takes quite a few things away."*

Try xubuntu 10.04, its quite nice and WAY faster than gnome on my laptop (2.0ghz core2, 4gb ram) XFCE is extremely similar to the current gnome so people who dont like gnome3 should transition very easily to it.

I tried lxde and found it kinda "meh".

I am sticking with ubuntu/gnome for now until gnome3 actually comes out, ill give it one more shot then but I most likely will end up on xfce.

#1649

Roasted said: I like them on the left. My metacity has them on the left. When I switch over to check out gnome-shell, is there a way I can have them set on the left?

Yes. Run the configuration editor, alt F2 "gconf-editor" (no quotes), click: desktop,gnome,shell,windows; now in the right pane, right click "button_layout" and select edit key and change the string to "close,minimize,maximize:" (no quotes). I can't remember if the changes are immediate or not, so you might have to restart shell. I've had the metacity buttons this way for 2 or 3 years, and had to lock it in when they moved to the right, so not too surprised shell's buttons moved as well.

#1650

i searched through a few pages and couldn't find anything:

i upgraded to lucid yesterday and i noticed that the sound applet was missing in gnome shell. has this happened to anyone else and is there a solution to getting it back?

#1651

Like many things Linux, users will have to rethink how they use their window manager. It's not a bad thing. I am looking forward to it. GNOME is going to be able to hang with KDE in the eye candy department. It's not even in beta yet, so let's hold off on the tongue lashings until at least the RC.

#1652

saturnblackhole said: i searched through a few pages and couldn't find anything:

i upgraded to lucid yesterday and i noticed that the sound applet was missing in gnome shell. has this happened to anyone else and is there a solution to getting it back?

It's because the sound applet in Lucid, like the messaging menu in Karmic, uses the indicator applet which currently is incompatible with GNOME Shell

#1653

saturnblackhole said: i searched through a few pages and couldn't find anything:

i upgraded to lucid yesterday and i noticed that the sound applet was missing in gnome shell. has this happened to anyone else and is there a solution to getting it back?

Alt F2 type "gnome-volume-control-applet" (no quotes). To start automatically go to: Preferences,Startup Applications - and enter this command and give it a name.

If using the default ubuntu mono icons, your volume control will be dark as the symbolic links to this applet were removed as of ubuntu-mono 0.0.17.

It looks great with the 0.0.16 package, but this also changes the volume icon in rhythmbox and totem.

#1654

^^^

wow thanks a lot problem solved.

#1655

WaskelyWabbit said: Yes. Run the configuration editor, alt F2 "gconf-editor" (no quotes), click: desktop,gnome,shell,windows; now in the right pane, right click "button_layout" and select edit key and change the string to "close,minimize,maximize:" (no quotes). I can't remember if the changes are immediate or not, so you might have to restart shell. I've had the metacity buttons this way for 2 or 3 years, and had to lock it in when they moved to the right, so not too surprised shell's buttons moved as well.

Thanks, that worked for me. No more confusion. :)

#1656

wow the new gnome doesn't look good at all :(

maybe ill change my mind after using it, but makes me think about switching to kde or xfce.

#1657

northwestuntu said: wow the new gnome doesn't look good at all :(

maybe ill change my mind after using it, but makes me think about switching to kde or xfce.There is no need to change, if you don't like G-S stick with Gnome 2.x, its simple.

#1658

I am giving it a try on both my work and home system. Both are X64.

I like the concept alot. The use of workspaces in this way is a great idea to make an often unused feature more useful. Once I got my favorites setup I was in good shape for application starting.

I do wish there was a "Filesystem" link under Places and Devices, but this can be worked around by enabling the Computer desktop Icon, as can the Trash issue.

Outside of some of the issues already quoted I have only two complains, both may be resolved as development continues.

1 - Qt apps do not minimize to the new notification tray. I shrunk Amarok and could not access it again.

2 - Performance. My home system is a single core Pentium-D 3ghz running a Nvidia 9600gt card. It can handle Compiz with no issues yet gnome-shell shudders and sputters when moving to and from the overlay. Even my more modern work system has a slight skipping as I work between the areas.

Personally I am a bit excited to see how this develops. I do hope they work out the performance before even looking at it as the default for Ubuntu.

#1659

This will not become default for some time yet. I think that the performance stuff will be worked out before that happens.

#1660

k3lt01 said: There is no need to change, if you don't like G-S stick with Gnome 2.x, its simple.

More accurately, since nobody should be sticking with Gnome 2 for that long once Gnome 3 makes it into the distrubution.

If you don't like G-S use Mutter/Metacity.

Later, Seeker

#1661

seeker5528 said: More accurately, since nobody should be sticking with Gnome 2 for that long once Gnome 3 makes it into the distrubution.

If you don't like G-S use Mutter/Metacity.

Later, SeekerWhat's accurate about your statement?

Btw as far as I am aware you don't need Metacity for 2.x and Mutter is Metacity+Clutter and its for G-S.

#1662

k3lt01 said: There is no need to change, if you don't like G-S stick with Gnome 2.x, its simple.

well you know after a while it will be default in ubuntu. just a matter of time.

#1663

k3lt01 said: What's accurate about your statement?

The fact that the sane alternative to GNOME Shell if you want to continue using GNOME isn't using GNOME 2.x, but using Metacity, or any other window manager, together with the rest of GNOME 3.x.

#1664

23meg said: The fact that the sane alternative to GNOME Shell if you want to continue using GNOME isn't using GNOME 2.x, but using Metacity, or any other window manager, together with the rest of GNOME 3.x.It is "insane" to think all machines can, or will be able to, even run G-S which is Gnome 3. I know my laptop wont run it atm, and if it continues this way I will be sticking to 2.x on my laptop. So I'll ask again, what is accurate about Seekers statement?

#1665

Gnome shell is a part of Gnome 3, so is innacure to say "G-S is Gnome 3".

#1666

k3lt01 said: It is "insane" to think all machines can, or will be able to, even run G-S which is Gnome 3.

GNOME Shell is not GNOME 3; it's one component of it. It's the replacement for GNOME Panel + Metacity, so using GNOME 3.x minus GNOME Shell, with any other panel + WM configuration, would be the sane route if you don't like GNOME Shell.

#1667

23meg said: GNOME Shell is not GNOME 3; it's one component of it. It's the replacement for GNOME Panel + Metacity, so using GNOME 3.x minus GNOME Shell, with any other panel + WM configuration, would be the sane route if you don't like GNOME Shell.And we get back to the fact that some machines will not run it. What do you do then? stick with what you already have maybe? What is that? Is it maybe Gnome 2.x? Like I said there is no need to change just keep using 2.x. Going further you do not have to use Metacity with Gnome.

#1668

k3lt01 said: And we get back to the fact that some machines will not run it. What do you do then? stick with what you already have maybe? What is that? Is it maybe Gnome 2.x? Like I said there is no need to change just keep using 2.x. Going further you do not have to use Metacity with Gnome.

They won't be able to run GNOME Shell but they will be able to run other components of GNOME 3 such as Zeitgeist

#1669

k3lt01 said: And we get back to the fact that some machines will not run it. What do you do then?

Just to make sure we're on the same page: I'm talking about *alternatives to* GNOME Shell; things people who prefer not to use GNOME Shell might want to use. So "some machines" not running GNOME Shell is not relevant at all.

Like I said there is no need to change just keep using 2.x. Going further you do not have to use Metacity with Gnome.

You can keep using a distribution that uses 2.x that will be maintained downstream for some time, like Ubuntu 10.04, if you're fine with keeping the rest of your system "old". If you want a modern distribution, however, you'd probably have a hard time even building 2.x on it a year or two later, and at that point some components of it will likely be unmaintained / ABI-incompatible with the rest. My point is that instead, you can run a modern GNOME (3.x) running on modern foundation components, just minus GNOME Shell itself, instead of which you'd use whatever panel (if any) and WM you like.

#1670

23meg said: You can keep using a distribution that uses 2.x that will be maintained downstream for some time, like Ubuntu 10.04, if you're fine with keeping the rest of your system "old".That's my point. Simple isn't it?

#1671

k3lt01 said: That's my point. Simple isn't it?

If it were "simple" for me to deduce that from your first post, I wouldn't have replied to it at all.

#1672

23meg said: If it were "simple" for me to deduce that from your first post, I wouldn't have replied to it at all.I acknowledge my initial reply on this matter could have said more (I could have made it multiple pages but to what end?).

However, no one had to deduce anything because it still stands the person I replied to doesn't have to go to something other than Gnome just because they don't like G-S at this time. We have Lucid for 3 years it will be released with 2.x and it is highly unlikely it will ever get 3.x by default. Seeker's statement is not more accurate and as it stands no one has given a reply that makes it more accurate. And yes I agree I made a mistake about G3 and G-S, you learn something new everyday.

Anyway, that's enough from me, I have made my point.

#1673

k3lt01 said: What's accurate about your statement?

Btw as far as I am aware you don't need Metacity for 2.x and Mutter is Metacity+Clutter and its for G-S.

More accurate because G-S is just one small part of Gnome 3, and while Gnome 3 will continue to allow you to use a different window managers, panels, etc... just as Gnome 2 does, sticking with Gnome 2 after Gnome 3 makes it into the distribution is not likely to be an option.

Mutter does get described as Metacity+Clutter, and that's true enough for the majority, but not all stuff gets ported between them. and some people who don't have a combination of hardware and driver that provides halfway decent OpenGL support will still need Metacity, either because the video card doesn't support the necessary range of features or because the driver needs work.

EDIT: Yeah, I know. I should have read the rest of the thread before responding, it's all pretty much redundant at this point, but hey...... ;)

Later, Seeker

#1674

I hope I don't have to keep explaining a simple concept repeatedly, it is getting tedious especially when people are not reading things properly or are trying to see more than is actually there.

seeker5528 said: sticking with Gnome 2 after Gnome 3 makes it into the distribution is not likely to be an option.Are you then saying people should ditch an LTS which has something they are quite happy and comfortable with when Meerkat comes out just because Meerkat has G3?

Lucid which comes out in less than a week will come out with 2.x and will probably never had G3 as an option let alone as standard in its 3 year desktop lifespan. People do not have to change in the foreseeable future, the next 3 years at least. That is the point of my statement. You saying that people wont have an option to stick with what is released in an LTS is totally inaccurate.

#1675

k3lt01 said: I hope I don't have to keep explaining a simple concept repeatedly, it is getting tedious especially when people are not reading things properly or are trying to see more than is actually there.

Are you then saying people should ditch an LTS which has something they are quite happy and comfortable with when Meerkat comes out just because Meerkat has G3?

Lucid which comes out in less than a week will come out with 2.x and will probably never had G3 as an option let alone as standard in its 3 year desktop lifespan. People do not have to change in the foreseeable future, the next 3 years at least. That is the point of my statement. You saying that people wont have an option to stick with what is released in an LTS is totally inaccurate.

I found a timeline that has Gnome-Shell being completed by September 2010, but nothing about G3 being completed at that time. Is there something I am missing?

#1676

Gnome Shell hasn't even been officially accepted as a gnome module yet (http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointThirtyone/Desktop). (Personally, I'm hoping that either it gets voted down, or that when canonical start including it in ubuntu they do a major hatchet job on it. :P)

But until it's officially accepted into Gnome, it's not yet a part of Gnome 3.0.

#1677

Gnome3-session package's version has changed from 2.28 to 2.30 in Debian Sid.

Which means I've had a play with Gnome Shell in my Lucid install (from Ricotz's PPA) starting straight from GDM.

You need the gnome3-session deb - http://packages.debian.org/sid/gnome3-session (i386 or amd64 depending on your setup). Install the two packages below first.

Dependencies:

gnome-session-bin - http://packages.debian.org/sid/gnome/gnome-session-bin

and gnome-session-common - http://packages.debian.org/sid/gnome/gnome-session-common

One of the dependencies will produce errors when installing - use the dpkg command with -i --force-overwrite.

Reboot, and start gnome-shell without using gnome-shell --replace !

But - if someone knows how to get the close/minimize/maximize buttons over to the left to match the Lucid default settings, that would be awesome!

#1678

k3lt01 said: Are you then saying people should ditch an LTS which has something they are quite happy and comfortable with when Meerkat comes out just because Meerkat has G3?

I never said that.

If you stick with Lucid, the whole question of Gnome 3 becomes irrelevant.

But you have talked about sticking with Gnome 2.x in order to avoid G-S as if G-S=Gnome 3. Which is painting a picture of things different than what they are.

Since G-S is not a requirement of Gnome 3, you will still be able to use Mutter+Panels or if necessary due to hardware/driver limitations Metacity+Panels.

There are always reasons for people to stick with an LTS release, and to a lesser extent reasons to stick to some non-LTS along the way due to some quirk, change in hardware support, etc...

Once Gnome 3 makes it into a release, if your only reason to stick with an older release over the release with Gnome 3 is to avoid G-S, there is little reason to do that.

When Gnome 2 was released, the official window manager changed from Sawfish to Metacity, and there were plenty of people who didn't like it, but that didn't keep them from upgrading to Gnome 2 and continuing to use Sawfish for their window manager.

G-S is a little more overt than that because it also takes over the functions of the panel, but that doesn't change the fact that you won't be forced to use it.

Later, Seeker

#1679

seeker5528 said: I never said that. I asked if that was what you were saying (i.e. infering, hinting at, making the point about) not if it is what you said.

seeker5528 said: If you stick with Lucid, the whole question of Gnome 3 becomes irrelevant. Which is my point, the person I replied to DOES NOT need to change to something else does he? Now we have that settled it just remains for you to confirm you post wasn't actually more accurate.

seeker5528 said: But you have talked about sticking with Gnome 2.x in order to avoid G-S as if G-S=Gnome 3. Which is painting a picture of things different than what they are. Initially I talked about just staying with Gnome2 if the person I replied to didn't want to change. Lucid after all will have 2.x for 3 years. You however said that once G3 comes out people will have to change because they will hav no option, that is simply incorrect.

I have admitted I made an error about G3 and G-S. I wonder if you will admit your error in telling people they will have no option but to change when G3 comes out when infact they will have Lucid for another 2 and a half years.

Like I have already said, there was no need for anyone to go further than what my post said. There was no need for more accuracy, there was no need to read anything into what was there. It was a simple statement telling the person I replied to that he/she didn't need to change if he didn't want to. He could stick with 2.x for the foreseeable future.

#1680

It seems the only disconnect here is that for k3lt01, 2.5 years >= foreseeable future (the inevitable switch from Gnome 2 is so far away, there's no need to mention it). For the other people posting, 2.5 years < foreseeable future (eventually, a Gnome 2 solution won't be supported, and a move to Gnome >2 will be needed, with or without Gnome Shell).

If you adjust for that inconsistency, everyone is saying the same thing and just talking past each other. It seems everyone is one the same page.

#1681

Is anyone else getting strange maximize behaviors after the last gnome-shell update (rictoz repo) a couple of days ago?

#1682

Nope we aren't all on the same page.

When it is inferred that you are insane, and it was infered, if you don't swap to Meerkat when it comes out with G3 there is an issue. When it is inferred that you have to swap to something because something will no longer be available shortly after (i.e. 6 months as against foreseeable future) there is also an issue. Claim to be more accurate all you want but please tell everyone else what your source is that makes you more accurate. In other words, Seeker should give us the information that says Lucid will not have 2.x in 6-12 months. If he cannot he is not more accurate, he has an opinion and it is a worthy opinion but it cannot be claimed to be more accurate with regards to my initial post on this matter.

I admitted my error, and am not afraid to acknowledge that. It would be nice however if those who claim to have more accurate information, not just what has happened in the past because that in itself can be used both ways, if they would share it or say it is just their opinion.

#1683

**k3lt01]When it is inferred that you are insane, and it was infered,

That's inferring a bit too much, don't you think? I didn't call you "insane" said:**

if you don't swap to Meerkat when it comes out with G3 there is an issue.

Nobody even implied that it would have GNOME 3 in its entirety. That's not going to be decided until UDS.

#1684

23meg said: Nobody even implied that it would have GNOME 3 in its entirety. That's not going to be decided until UDS.

I want to make sure GNOME Shell is a topic for UDS, did I do it right?

#1685

Merk42 said: I want to make sure GNOME Shell is a topic for UDS, did I do it right?

Apparently you assigned a team without consulting them (not a good thing to do), and the assignment was removed (maybe you removed it?).

But don't worry, there will certainly be such a discussion (there's no real need for this blueprint). If you'll be attending UDS and are sure you want to drive it, set yourself as the drafter, mark yourself as "participation essential" for the spec, announce the spec on the IRC channels and/or mailing lists of the relevant teams (UX&D, Desktop, DX), talk to the UDS track leads for the Design and Desktop tracks (Ivanka Majic and Rick Spencer) and set them as "Approver" if they agree.

#1686

23meg said: That's inferring a bit too much, don't you think? Not at all, I took what you said at face value. You said the sane option is ..... So by inference staying with Lucid after Meerkat is released is "insane".

23meg said: I didn't call you "insane"; you indeed *inferred* that from my saying "the sane option is..", in reply to a terse post of yours where you didn't cite anything about staying with Lucid (which, in turn, led me to infer that we were talking about following up with future GNOME releases).Did I say you inferred I (ME) was insane? Choose your words wisely ok.

23meg said: You're reading a lot into what's a simple misunderstanding. I'm not the one saying "more accurately" when someone else said the person does not need to change. Who's reading to much into something here? I asked Seeker how his statement was more accurate, there was no need for anyone to bring the "sane" option in to the discussion at all.

23meg said: Nobody even implied that it would have GNOME 3 in its entirety. That's not going to be decided until UDS.I didn't say anyone did so please don't go inferring that I did by saying this.

If this was just a "simple" misunderstanding then maybe all these posts should simply be removed from this discussion as the last post that has any relevance is mine where I simply tried to say the person does not need to change.

#1687

23meg said: Apparently you assigned a team without consulting them (not a good thing to do), and the assignment was removed (maybe you removed it?).

But don't worry, there will certainly be such a discussion (there's no real need for this blueprint). If you'll be attending UDS and are sure you want to drive it, set yourself as the drafter, mark yourself as "participation essential" for the spec, announce the spec on the IRC channels and/or mailing lists of the relevant teams (UX&D, Desktop, DX), talk to the UDS track leads for the Design and Desktop tracks (Ivanka Majic and Rick Spencer) and set them as "Approver" if they agree. Thing is, there is no way I can make it to UDS to do it myself. I didn't know what to do, I originally had no one assigned, but then it didn't show up in the list of blueprints so I didn't think I did it right. How are you so certain there will be a discussion about it? I'd hate to assume there was and then it doesn't happen and it's too late to suggest it.

#1688

k3lt01][QUOTE=northwestuntu said: wow the new gnome doesn't look good at all :(

maybe ill change my mind after using it, but makes me think about switching to kde or xfce.There is no need to change, if you don't like G-S stick with Gnome 2.x, its simple.How can this simple statement be taken so wrong?

We are after all in Lucid testing, Lucid does have 2.x. If northwestuntu doesn't like G-S he does not have to change away from 2.x. I really don't understand how hard that is to understand. Reading through the trail of posts after this simple statement is quite bemusing.

#1689

k3lt01 said: Not at all, I took what you said at face value. You said the sane option is ..... So by inference staying with Lucid after Meerkat is released is "insane".

And, let me repeat, hence the misunderstanding: at that point, you hadn't talked about Lucid at all, and I was assuming that we were talking about future GNOME in general. And you confirmed later that your post could have been misunderstood due to lack of detail.

k3lt01 said: Did I say you inferred I (ME) was insane? Choose your words wisely ok.

You said "when it is inferred", and I took that to mean "I inferred from that sentence that I'm indirectly called insane". If you meant something else, please clarify.

I'm not the one saying "more accurately" when someone else said the person does not need to change. Who's reading to much into something here? I asked Seeker how his statement was more accurate, there was no need for anyone to bring the "sane" option in to the discussion at all.

I referred to using GNOME 3.x minus GNOME Shell as "the sane option" *as opposed to staying with an unmaintained GNOME 2.x*, since, again, at that point in the discussion, it wasn't clear from your posts what exactly you meant, and it could very well be interpreted as staying with an unmaintained GNOME 2.x. Note that lots of people incorrectly frame discussions of using GNOME Shell vs. not using it as a matter of staying with an antiquated GNOME version, or switching to some other DE. This is a common misconception, hence my sensitivity to it.

If you were offended specifically by the usage of the word "sane", note that English isn't my native language, and so far the undertone the *opposite* of that word could carry in a context like this hadn't occurred to me. In technical discussions I use it in a strictly technical sense, as in "technically sane", and I've observed countless times that it's used that way in similar discussions, without anyone getting offended.

If this was just a "simple" misunderstanding then maybe all these posts should simply be removed from this discussion as the last post that has any relevance is mine where I simply tried to say the person does not need to change.

No, there are other relevant posts in between that add new information, and there's nothing that necessitates post removal in the discussion.

#1690

Merk42 said: Thing is, there is no way I can make it to UDS to do it myself.

I didn't know what to do, I originally had no one assigned, but then it didn't show up in the list of blueprints so I didn't think I did it right.

For it to show up in that list, it has to be approved by the summit organizers for discussion in the summit, and that hasn't happened yet.

Merk42 said: How are you so certain there will be a discussion about it? I'd hate to assume there was and then it doesn't happen and it's too late to suggest it.

New GNOME modules and what to do about them are always discussed in UDS, and GNOME Shell is an obvious candidate for 2.32, as well as being planned for a long time beforehand and having been discussed at the last two summits. And since it's a very user-facing potential change in the defaults, given that there's a dedicated design track at this UDS and the entire UX&D team attends UDS, there's no way they're not going to want to discuss it.

Not to mention that there are many topics regarding Ubuntu integration that are still undecided, such as what to do about notifications, indicators, etc.

#1691

23meg, You know I like your work so this is nothing personal ok.

I shouldn't need to clarify anything, especially considering we are in Lucid testing. Lucid has 3 years of support so 2.x in theory will be maintained by Canonical (if Gnome doesn't) for 3 years unless they do change to G3 in Lucid itself but that is probably unlikely.

I refer back to my last post and wonder in absolute amazement how such a simple statement could end up with the discussion after it.

btw, I kinda gathered English wasn't your native language but I must say you use it brilliantly. Even native speakers make mistakes with it and I am in that boat myself. With regards to "sane" having studied psychology kind of means I take it in a psychological sense and I was unaware that it could be used in a, as you say, technical sense.

#1692

moore.bryan said: Is anyone else getting strange maximize behaviors after the last gnome-shell update (rictoz repo) a couple of days ago?

are you talking about when you maximize a window it becomes transparent and unusable? is so yes i'm also experiencing this problem. hopefully it'll be resolved with the latest update from rictoz.

#1693

k3lt01 said: Which is my point, the person I replied to DOES NOT need to change to something else does he? Now we have that settled it just remains for you to confirm you post wasn't actually more accurate.

That may have been the point but....

k3lt01 said: There is no need to change, if you don't like G-S stick with Gnome 2.x, its simple.

Was too open to interpretation to accurately reflect that.

Yes the 'There is no need to change' part is accurate but a little vague whether that applied to Lucid and not Gnome 2 since Gnome 2 was mentioned after that but Lucid was not.

The 'if you don't like G-S stick with Gnome 2.x' part leads people in the direction of thinking that if you don't like G-S you have to stick with Gnome 2.x which is incorrect.

In particular when you have people elsewhere ranting about changes in Gnome 3 when in reality all their complaints are specific to G-S.

So I would still have to view 'If you don't like G-S use Mutter/Metacity.' as being a more accurate statement, at the very least it applies equally whether you stick with Lucid over the long haul or upgrade to a later version of Ubuntu that includes Gnome 3.

It is equally accurate that sticking with Lucid will be easy and later after upgrading to a future version of Ubuntu that includes Gnome 3 choosing to use Metacity or Mutter will be easy.

And just because G-S will be default in Gnome 3 doesn't mean Ubuntu will ship with it as the default when they get Gnome 3 included in a release, for all we know they may keep Metacity as the default for a while.

I expect G-S will win out eventually, but it make take a few revisions the get there.

Later, Seeker

#1694

seeker5528 said: That may have been the point but....

Was too open to interpretation to accurately reflect that. Seeker, we are in Lucid testing what else was I going to refer to? My statement was accurate with regards to the person I replied to, just because you want to read more into it than was in the initial discussion does not make your statement any more accurate than mine.

seeker5528 said: Yes the 'There is no need to change' part is accurate but a little vague whether that applied to Lucid and not Gnome 2 since Gnome 2 was mentioned after that but Lucid was not. I shall repeat it for you, we are in Lucid testing, lucid has 2.x, it is going to be supported for 3 years. Your suggestion that 2.x will not be offered after G3 is released is inaccurate and I will ask you again to show evidence to support your statement. Let's be very clear here we are discussing Ubuntu and Lucid, nothing else.

seeker5528 said: The 'if you don't like G-S stick with Gnome 2.x' part leads people in the direction of thinking that if you don't like G-S you have to stick with Gnome 2.x which is incorrect. This is where I repeat you are reading to much into a simple statement. If I wanted to say he had to stick with 2.x I would have phrased it like this "if you don't like G-S you will HAVE TO stick with 2.x". But everyone can see I didn't say that at all. Instead I said "There is no need to change, if you don't like G-S stick with Gnome 2.x, its simple." so unfortunately you are reading something into a simple statement that isn't there. This then makes your interpretation inaccurate and in essence your entire discussion after it.

seeker5528 said: In particular when you have people elsewhere ranting about changes in Gnome 3 when in reality all their complaints are specific to G-S. That's other people, you replied to a statement I made. Others then come in on that. Please support your assertions with evidence.

seeker5528 said: So I would still have to view 'If you don't like G-S use Mutter/Metacity.' as being a more accurate statement, at the very least it applies equally whether you stick with Lucid over the long haul or upgrade to a later version of Ubuntu that includes Gnome 3.I have said it more than once you do not need metacity to use 2.x.

seeker5528 said: It is equally accurate that sticking with Lucid will be easy and later after upgrading to a future version of Ubuntu that includes Gnome 3 choosing to use Metacity or Mutter will be easy. By the time Lucid is no longer support our friend may like G-S, in which case your discussion is invalid with regards to his original statement and my reply to him.

seeker5528 said: And just because G-S will be default in Gnome 3 doesn't mean Ubuntu will ship with it as the default when they get Gnome 3 included in a release, for all we know they may keep Metacity as the default for a while. I don't ever remember suggesting G-S will be default, infact I have said a few times in this thread and others that Gnome-Panels will continue to be supported into the future.

I just want to ask you if you would stop reading into a simple statement things that simply are not there.

#1695

If gnome changes to look like the screens from the first post i will be going to KDE or back to windows ..

the screens in the first post look like pure crap

#1696

ToxicBurn said: If gnome changes to look like the screens from the first post i will be going to KDE or back to windows ..

the screens in the first post look like pure crap

It eventually will, (more or less given it's still in development). That's kind the point of this thread, to let users know what's coming (at some point I don't want to start a fight over semantics of time)

#1697

Well i sure hope this new Shell is good if not i see Kubuntu taking over

#1698

Yes, the maximize thing is a bug in mutter. We just have to wait for ricotz to build. http://git.gnome.org/browse/mutter/commit/?id=d8b0f213b299d0d1e6084caf5b8bef469005d465

#1699

can't we all just get along :)

#1700

Where is the best place to go for troubleshooting of this.

My home system is fine, but when I updated my work system to 10.04 things went a bit screwy. It was not the cleanest upgrade, did part of it via apt-get before it bombed out. Then I ran the partial upgrade from Upgrade-manager but had to step away from the computer. When I cam back the screen saver would not allow me in. Forced a reboot and got into terminal and was able to finish the upgrade from there. Couchdb and Gnome shell both had issues at this point.

Doing a purge and reinstall fixed both, except now Gnome Shell causes visual distortion on my windows, similar to the picture of Gnome Shell in a virtual environment, but the distortion is limited to individual windows. My Virtualbox sessions are also transparent, allowing me to see to the Gnome desktop.

I removed everything and reverted to the official repo version, with the exact same result.

Desktop effects work fine, so I am hesitant to think it is a video driver issue or a problem with compositing. Not sure where to look, or even how to search for this problem.

#1701

Merk42 said: That's kind the point of this thread, to let users know what's coming

gnome-death

Though im not terribly worried, i've seen enough negative response on forums and blogs to know that when major distributions introduce this in their alpha's and betas, the public response will be enough to convince Canonical and others not to inflict gnome shell on us.

the problem with the developers is they seem to have a steve jobs complex, wherein their idea of evolution should be forcibly applied to everyone. what's going to happen though is their attempt to compete with KDE, will likely send more users to KDE lol.

#1702

The big problem with the negative responders, is that they are also the same people that respond negatively to almost any change. So far you still have a choice in gnome 3, you don't have to use gnome-shell if you don't want to.

#1703

cariboo907 said: The big problem with the negative responders, is that they are also the same people that respond negatively to almost any change. So far you still have a choice in gnome 3, you don't have to use gnome-shell if you don't want to.

That's not really a fair assumption. I personally hate the lack of an easy window switcher, but that's not to say I hate change of any kind.

#1704

I was skeptical for a while but not any more. When using anything else like KDE or Gnome2 I keep absentmindedly trying to open the activities thing and am disappointed when I can't. :D

I think it might just work out.

#1705

cariboo907 said: The big problem with the negative responders, is that they are also the same people that respond negatively to almost any change.I agree, and they often say if it ain't broke why fix it which isn't really an excuse not to try new things.

#1706

I've gotta say I always love trying new things, but I really don't like the lack of an easy window switcher. I think what it comes down to is that Gnome-Shell's window switching just fundamentally takes longer in a lot of situations. Alt + tab can require several clicks and takes some getting used to for those of us who don't use it regularly, and using the activities screen requires a click (I use the hotkey to bring it up) + mouse movement + another click.

Gnome-shell does look kinda nifty though, and I assume in the final version it'll be as easy to switch themes as it is in Gnome right now. I think something like an option to install a dock on first boot would go a long way to appeasing people.

#1707

What I actually noticed is that it is a great alternative for UNR interface. I use Gnome-Shell on my netbook and "vanilla" gnome on my desktop cpu.

#1708

NightwishFan said: I was skeptical for a while but not any more. When using anything else like KDE or Gnome2 I keep absentmindedly trying to open the activities thing and am disappointed when I can't. :D

I think it might just work out.

I was using XP this afternoon, I kept trying to open activities too. I guess I don't use Windows often enough, but I keep getting annoyed that most of what I do on a day-to-day basis can't be done out of the box eg: highlighting text and using the middle button to paste.

#1709

Can't wait for GNOME Shell, it looks very interesting :D

#1710

EMCGFX said: Can't wait for GNOME Shell, it looks very interesting :D

Then follow the instructions in the first post and run it now in its unfinished state

#1711

as everyone may know, there is a thread on creating themes for gnome-shell at: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9180923#post9180923

I have created a small script to assist with themes. I posted about it at: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9180923&postcount=89

Note that it's BETA software, and you will use it at own risk, but it would be great if someone can give some feedback.

ty,

#1712

Does anyone keep getting a problem with gnome-shell concerning menus. Clicking on an application menu in a workspace displays the menu list, but as soon as you move the cursor the list disappears. This makes the shell unusable.

#1713

Like right click? Or file edit etc? Nothing like that here.

#1714

Like right click? Or file edit etc? Nothing like that here.

Just a simple right click on a top menu in an application. (say Thunderbird)

#1715

Interesting. Try using just mutter and see if it still does that. Exit the shell then press alt+f2 and type:

mutter --replace

It is the base window manager without the shell. If it still does it then it is a mutter bug.

#1716

Interesting. Try using just mutter and see if it still does that. Exit the shell then press alt+f2 and type: Code: mutter --replace It is the base window manager without the shell. If it still does it then it is a mutter bug.

OK - not at home at the moment - but I'll try that as soon as I can.

#1717

cariboo907 said: The big problem with the negative responders, is that they are also the same people that respond negatively to almost any change. So far you still have a choice in gnome 3, you don't have to use gnome-shell if you don't want to.

That's a pretty big assumption. Ive busted my installation more times than i care to count, trying new things. But i decided a long time ago i didn't need half a dozen workspaces to get on with my work, so having a DE that places more emphasis on that is counter-productive.

#1718

A follow-up to my problems:

It does not appear to be profile based. Originally I found that the issue did not happen on the guest session. However after testing some more I found it did happen, just at much less of a frequency. Conky and Firefox seem to scramble the most followed by non-active terminals.

The scrambling will also occure when I go from the overlay back to a window. Repeating the process seems to increase the likelihood of this happening.

I still have no real direction as to where to look for the problem. Searches for distortion in Gnome-Shell come up empty. I did find some similar issues with Compiz, but they all related to Nvidia cards. I am running an ATI.

Everything worked fine before my upgrade (as noted, a rocky upgrade)

#1719

The following packages have unmet dependencies: gnome-shell: Depends: libgjs0 but it is not going to be installed E: Broken packages

This is what I get when trying to install can someone help me through this? ubuntu 10.04 64 bit

floydsp

#1720

HolidayQueen said: That's a pretty big assumption. Ive busted my installation more times than i care to count, trying new things. But i decided a long time ago i didn't need half a dozen workspaces to get on with my work, so having a DE that places more emphasis on that is counter-productive.

And for some people it is more productive

#1721

floydsp said: The following packages have unmet dependencies:

gnome-shell: Depends: libgjs0 but it is not going to be installed E: Broken packages

This is what I get when trying to install can someone help me through this? ubuntu 10.04 64 bit

floydsp

How did you install it? Source, Ricotz PPA, or the included package?

#1722

I was trying to install from synaptic when I get that error.

I can install from source but its temporary as it seems to be only in the terminal.

I can issue the command gnome-shell --replace and I get gnome-shell not in stalled

floydsp

#1723

Try this from a terminal:

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get -f install

If it asks to remove anything, ask here first, dont continue.

#1724

Thanks for fast reply am trying this now Fetched 11.0MB in 36s (302kB/s) Reading package lists... Done Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.

floydsp

#1725

Ok, try installing gnome-shell again. Are you using the ricotz ppa?

#1726

I have them in repositories but don't know if I am using them or not. JS LOG: GNOME Shell started at Wed Apr 28 2010 14:41:37 GMT-0500 (CST) JS LOG: Failed to acquire org.freedesktop.Notifications; trying again

(mutter:7050): Clutter-WARNING **: The actor 'StBin' is currently inside an allocation cycle; calling clutter_actor_queue_relayout() is not recommended

(mutter:7050): Clutter-WARNING **: The actor 'StBoxLayout' is currently inside an allocation cycle; calling clutter_actor_queue_relayout() is not recommended

(mutter:7050): Clutter-WARNING **: The actor 'StBin' is currently inside an allocation cycle; calling clutter_actor_queue_relayout() is not recommended this is what I am getting as errors.

#1727

floydsp: If you have an issue with libgjs0 it could be because you also have the mozilla daily ppa source.

This ppa installs a newer version of xulrunner 1.9.2 than libgjs0 is designed to work with.

The solution is to in Synaptic, search for and select the xulrunner-1.9.2 package, go to the Package menu, and then the Force Version option, and then change from version 1.9.2.5 to 1.9.2.3 (the version in the Lucid repos).

Problem is, at the moment, there is a Synaptic bug ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synaptic/+bug/568925 ) causing a problem with the Force Version option. So you need to upgrade Synaptic https://launchpad.net/~dnjl/+archive/experimental/+sourcepub/1086926/+listing-archive-extra (select amd64/i386 according to your PC) first.

Then remove xulrunner-1.9.2-gnome-support. Apply Then lock xulrunner-1.9.2 to 1.9.2.3. Apply Then select xulrunner-1.9.2 and Force Version to 1.9.2.3. Apply

Now you can install libgjs0

Pete

#1728

Goodbye, oh Glorious Gnome-Shell thread! I shall miss you when we move into our new habitat: Maverick Meerkat Testing and Discussion.

:-({|=

#1729

floydsp@floydsp-desktop:~$ gnome-shell --replace Failed to start shell Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/bin/gnome-shell", line 423, in <module> shell = start_shell() File "/usr/bin/gnome-shell", line 184, in start_shell (server_glx_extensions, client_glx_extensions, glx_extensions) = _get_glx_extensions() File "/usr/bin/gnome-shell", line 121, in _get_glx_extensions server_glx_extensions = set(re.split("\s*,\s*", glxinfo_map['server glx extensions'].strip())) KeyError: 'server glx extensions' floydsp@floydsp-desktop:~$ Cannot register the panel shell: there is already one running. /usr/bin/compiz (core) - Fatal: glXCreateContext failed /usr/bin/compiz (core) - Error: Failed to manage screen: 0 /usr/bin/compiz (core) - Fatal: No manageable screens found on display :0.0

Launching fallback window manager

It seemed to install from synaptic but won't start now

floydsp

#1730

NCLI said: Goodbye, oh Glorious Gnome-Shell thread! I shall miss you when we move into our new habitat: Maverick Meerkat Testing and Discussion.

:-({|=

Actually I was just thinking whether this thread should be moved to Maverick Testing & Discussion when it opens.

#1731

is there a way to clear the "recent items" list in the side panel? there's some *cough* *cough* items i rather not have shown.

#1732

cariboo907 said: Actually I was just thinking whether this thread should be moved to Maverick Testing & Discussion when it opens.

Why? a lot of the discussion goes in circles and no one new is going to read through 170+ pages. I'll just make a new one in Maverick Testing Forums if need be.

#1733

Merk42 said: Why? a lot of the discussion goes in circles and no one new is going to read through 170+ pages. I'll just make a new one in Maverick Testing Forums if need be.

I agree. When you start a thread titled "$CONTROVERSIAL_CHANGE", it becomes a lightning rod for people who are worked up over that change, regardless of your intentions, and nobody really reads such threads to any benefit for testing.

If people need help testing GNOME Shell, they can start new threads per issue. That way, unrelated issues won't mix up, there will be less noise, those so inclined will actually be able to read and help, and people who just need to do drive-by bashing or praising or chit-chat can do so in Community Cafe.

#1734

k3lt01 said: Seeker, we are in Lucid testing what else was I going to refer to? My statement was accurate with regards to the person I replied to, just because you want to read more into it than was in the initial discussion does not make your statement any more accurate than mine.

Since G-S is not official yet, the post you responded to is forward looking based on something that's not finished yet and already and making it sound like they equate G-S and Gnome 3 to be the same thing.

northwestuntu said: wow the new gnome doesn't look good at all :(

maybe ill change my mind after using it, but makes me think about switching to kde or xfce.

And equating them to be the same thing seems to be carried forward even more overtly by the "if you don't like G-S stick with Gnome 2.x" part of your response.

I shall repeat it for you, we are in Lucid testing, lucid has 2.x, it is going to be supported for 3 years. Your suggestion that 2.x will not be offered after G3 is released is inaccurate and I will ask you again to show evidence to support your statement.

History supports my statement, when going from Gnome 1 to Gnome 2, KDE 3 to KDE 4, etc.... some libraries are kept for backward compatibility of applications, the gnome 1 libraries only recently being dropped, but it is pretty rare that you have a choice between the old DE and the new DE in the same version of a distribution.

Being a thread dedicated to something that is not official until Gnome 3 gets released, I responded in a forward looking manner. The fact that Lucid will still be available after there is an Ubuntu release that includes Gnome 3 doesn't make the lack of availability untrue, it just makes it irrelevant for those who choose to stick with Lucid.

If I had interpreted 'There is no need to change' to mean stick with Lucid, I would have limited myself to responding to the 'if you don't like G-S stick with Gnome 2.x' part of what you said.

This is where I repeat you are reading to much into a simple statement. If I wanted to say he had to stick with 2.x I would have phrased it like this "if you don't like G-S you will HAVE TO stick with 2.x". But everyone can see I didn't say that at all. Instead I said "There is no need to change, if you don't like G-S stick with Gnome 2.x, its simple." so unfortunately you are reading something into a simple statement that isn't there. This then makes your interpretation inaccurate and in essence your entire discussion after it.

As you said everyone can see what you said, without regard to how "There is no need to change" gets interpreted, 'if you don't like G-S stick with Gnome 2.x' without any interpreting gives the appearance of equating G-S as being Gnome 3 which would then naturally be interpreted to mean 'if you don't like Gnome 3 stick with Gnome 2.x'.

Which was the point of my response, G-S does not equal Gnome 3, it's just one optional component of it.

[qoute]That's other people, you replied to a statement I made. Others then come in on that. Please support your assertions with evidence.

I assume here that you are talking of my reference to people complaining about Gnome 3, when they are really talking about G-S.

People equating G-S and Gnome 3 as being the same thing was such a common occurrence, there were people creating pages debunking it....

http://shanefagan.com/2010/01/15/debunking-the-gnome-3-myths/

http://live.gnome.org/GNOME3Myths

I just want to ask you if you would stop reading into a simple statement things that simply are not there.

I have a hard time reading 'if you don't like G-S stick with Gnome 2.x' other than the way it reads. It is what it is, the continued availability of Lucid or lack of availability of Gnome 2 in future releases is irrelevant to that.

I would have been perfectly happy to stop talking about it after my .....

seeker5528 said: EDIT: Yeah, I know. I should have read the rest of the thread before responding, it's all pretty much redundant at this point, but hey...... ;)

... post. Since I wouldn't have made that post at all if I had read the rest of the thread first.

Later, Seeker

#1735

Hold on a second... if Gnome Shell needs 3d to run ,then how its going to run on a fresh out of the box install with a nvidia card? To run it you should install the proprietary driver from command line because gnome shell wont start...Am I right or not?

The only solution I see to nvidia cards is to develop an open source driver that supports 3d with no problem or to package ubuntu with the proprietary driver(but this is against ubuntu philosophy).

#1736

saturnblackhole said: is there a way to clear the "recent items" list in the side panel? there's some *cough* *cough* items i rather not have shown.

hmmm porn films?:lolflag::lolflag:

#1737

Merk42 said: Why? a lot of the discussion goes in circles and no one new is going to read through 170+ pages. I'll just make a new one in Maverick Testing Forums if need be.

23meg said: I agree. When you start a thread titled "$CONTROVERSIAL_CHANGE", it becomes a lightning rod for people who are worked up over that change, regardless of your intentions, and nobody really reads such threads to any benefit for testing.

If people need help testing GNOME Shell, they can start new threads per issue. That way, unrelated issues won't mix up, there will be less noise, those so inclined will actually be able to read and help, and people who just need to do drive-by bashing or praising or chit-chat can do so in Community Cafe.

Thanks guys, that's what I was looking for.

#1738

You have confused the issue to such an extent that I am starting to believe you are trolling just to save face.> seeker5528 said:

That's other people, you replied to a statement I made. Others then come in on that. Please support your assertions with evidence.

I assume here that you are talking of my reference to people complaining about Gnome 3, when they are really talking about G-S.I am referring to this

seeker5528 said: More accurately, [B][I][U]since nobody should be sticking with Gnome 2 for that long once Gnome 3 makes it into the distrubution.

[/U][/I][/B] If you don't like G-S use Mutter/Metacity.

Later, SeekerLucid is SUPPORTED for 3 years, people do stick with an LTS so your either saying "just ditch Lucid" or your saying "Lucid will have G3 when Meerkat is released". I have asked you a few times now support your assertions with evidence. If you can't, admit that your response is not more accurate and is just an opinion.

seeker5528 said: I have a hard time reading 'if you don't like G-S stick with Gnome 2.x' other than the way it reads. It is what it is, the continued availability of Lucid or lack of availability of Gnome 2 in future releases is irrelevant to that. No it isn't irrelevant. It is fact. Seriously, what part of, we are in Lucid, Lucid will be released with 2.x., if the person I responded to doesn't like G-S he can stick with 2.x, don't you understand? It is a simple statement which you have turned into a novel with your back and forth.

I said before to 23meg (and I don't want 23meg to come back into this because there is no need for that to happen) that I acknowledge my initial response could have had more in it. It could have been pages long, yes I am serious. However what would that have achieved apart from taking up someone else's valuable bandwidth? My statement, in its entirety and correct context stands. The person I replied to DOES NOT NEED TO CHANGE if he does not like G-S. He can stick with 2.x because it will be with us for at last another 3 years. Now if you have any insider information to refute that, i.e. 2.x will be ditched in Lucid within Lucid's lifetime, show us and I will admit I am wrong. If you can't then do the decent thing and admit you jumped to huge conclusions and shouldn't have made such big claims. If you can give solid evidence (i.e. not some blog from a nobody but something concrete from Canonical or a dev with Canonical) then I am more than happy to do likewise.

seeker5528 said: I would have been perfectly happy to stop talking about it after my .....

... post. Since I wouldn't have made that post at all if I had read the rest of the thread first. I seriously doubt this is true, you seem to want to keep defending an indefensible position. For what reason and to what end I do not know, I am beyond caring now. I'm at the stage where if I read another comment from you justifying your over analytical approach to a simple statement and turning 2 sentences into a play that would rival Les Miserables I'll make you the first person on my block list. I think that would be a pity as I have never blocked anyone on any forum I have been active in.

#1739

23meg said: I agree. When you start a thread titled "$CONTROVERSIAL_CHANGE", it becomes a lightning rod for people who are worked up over that change, regardless of your intentions, and nobody really reads such threads to any benefit for testing.

If people need help testing GNOME Shell, they can start new threads per issue. That way, unrelated issues won't mix up, there will be less noise, those so inclined will actually be able to read and help, and people who just need to do drive-by bashing or praising or chit-chat can do so in Community Cafe.

Well I'll probably make a new one in Maverick, just point out that it's strictly for learning about it and any tech support issues. Any sort of opinion would belong somewhere like here. I would think separate threads for each issue would be bad as the Maverick forums would fill up with issues regarding something that might not even be default.

Hopefully the new thread can avoid a pedantic argument over when/how to not use/be forced to use GNOME Shell...

#1740

Merk42 said: I would think separate threads for each issue would be bad as the Maverick forums would fill up with issues regarding something that might not even be default.

Good point.

On the flipside, 112,354 views and 1740 posts in 1 (mega)thread that keeps popping to the top, for something that was guaranteed not to be default, is also somewhat out of place.

We should perhaps evaluate this after UDS.

Hopefully the new thread can avoid a pedantic argument over when/how to not use/be forced to use GNOME Shell...

Wishful thinking. But it can be moved to CC when it happens.

#1741

23meg said: On the flipside, 112,354 views and 1740 posts in 1 (mega)thread that keeps popping to the top, for something that was guaranteed not to be default, is also somewhat out of place.

We should perhaps evaluate this after UDS. I agree. This definitely didn't fit for a Lucid forum. I dread seeing the thread in the Maverick Meerkat developmental forum... :/

#1742

kyleabaker said: I agree. This definitely didn't fit for a Lucid forum. I dread seeing the thread in the Maverick Meerkat developmental forum... :/

I'm curious though. Where WOULD be a good fit then if not the place where a bunch of testers would be? With the thread having so many views/posts I took it as being a good decision to put it here

#1743

Merk42 said: I'm curious though. Where WOULD be a good fit then if not the place where a bunch of testers would be? With the thread having so many views/posts I took it as being a good decision to put it here

How about "Desktop Environments"?

Personally, I didn't mind it being here, but I think it did cause some FUD among those that assumed it was going to be the default.

#1744

Didius Falco said: How about "Desktop Environments"?

Personally, I didn't mind it being here, but I think it did cause some FUD among those that assumed it was going to be the default.

... GNOME Shell will be released in September of 2010 so it won't be default until at least 10.10, most likely later. ...

Not my fault they don't read the first post

#1745

I must say this thread has quite suprised me. There have been so many passionate (rabid even) responses for and against gnome shell.

I don't like it, I think it's horrible in it's CURRENT shape so I simply won't use it but I will keep checking back and see how it progresses. Nobody knows how the finished product will turn out so it's hard to say it will ruin gnome and you will never use it.

I remember all the hullabaloo over KDE4 when people saw the early stages. No doubt about it, I thought it was awful (same as I feel about gnome shell) and as far as I was concerned KDE was going to be ruined and I tried out gnome in preparation.

As it turned out I liked gnome a lot better and stuck with it but kept checking on KDE4 and when it did finally hit a few distros all my fears were correct, it WAS awful but over time it has improved dramatically. I still prefer gnome and will stick with it for the foreseeable future but that is more down to personal preference now rather feeling pushed towards it as I did back then.

You really can't judge the future of a DE on the basis of the early stages of an app that may or may not be a default PART of gnome 3 or ubuntu.

Personally, I am more fearful that we will end up using an awful Mac style global menubar in the ubuntu future. It's already earmarked for the netbook edition and although it is supposedly not going to be the default for the desktop edition it WILL be available and wouldn't suprise me it it took over.

Give me gnome shell over that any day.

#1746

23meg said: On the flipside, 112,354 views and 1740 posts in 1 (mega)thread that keeps popping to the top, for something that was guaranteed not to be default, is also somewhat out of place.

Wait were actually finally killing the mega-monster-thread?

Merk42 said: I'm curious though. Where WOULD be a good fit then if not the place where a bunch of testers would be? With the thread having so many views/posts I took it as being a good decision to put it here

Maybe in a new sub-forum for GNOME Shell in the Development & Programming section called «GNOME-Shell Testing & Discussion» or something along those lines.

I would be for this because the Shell seems to be a topic of importance for a lot of people but currently progresses independently from Ubuntu releases. And there it wouldn't be a problem if each Shell issue or bug got it's own thread.

#1747

cariboo907 said: Actually I was just thinking whether this thread should be moved to Maverick Testing & Discussion when it opens.

Great idea :)

Merk42 said: Why? a lot of the discussion goes in circles and no one new is going to read through 170+ pages. I'll just make a new one in Maverick Testing Forums if need be.

Because this thread is epic, and filled with an incredible amount of information ;)

#1748

I agree with Merk42 and 23meg, I just threw the idea out to see what people had to say. I would rather see a thread with just technical help, all the opinion posts should go in a separate thread.

#1749

I agree I would rather specifically help with problems than sort through why or why not the shell will be a failure. :)