Archived thread 1486315 from Maverick Meerkat Testing and Discussion (CLOSED). Markdown source: Maverick_Meerkat_Testing_and_Discussion_(CLOSED)/thread_1486315_Why_do_you_consider_early_development_testing_impo.md
I know when I first started I basically just tagged along, and it was interesting to see how things transpired. Then I realized that I might actually be able to learn something :D
Next I realized that I could actually help by reporting bugs, iso-testing, etc. I'm hardly as good at either as I'd like to be :(
I'm curious why others get involved and how they translate that involvement into making Ubuntu the "way they want it" or "the best it can be".
My main reason is the amazing fun of experiencing the bell curve from 'practically release X' to ' Soon to be Release Y but in a right old state at the moment' to 'Release Y'.
And you learn a LOT. Which is nice.
In terms of making Ubuntu the best it can be / shaping it, I happily report bugs / post on here / help out where I can. I have raised a suggestion (only one) on brainstorm. Mainly it is the satisfaction of seeing the beast evolve, and feeling that I am helping in a small way by running it on my bog standard kit.
Learning is my primary motive, as well. I participated on one of the Ubuntu testing teams for Lucid from Alpha 1 onwards, and I learned more in three months than I had in the previous three years. Also, it was a good feeling when they told me my contribution had been valuable.
Tim
ratcheer said: Learning is my primary motive, as well. I participated on one of the Ubuntu testing teams for Lucid from Alpha 1 onwards, and I learned more in three months than I had in the previous three years. Also, it was a good feeling when they told me my contribution had been valuable.
Tim
How can I join a testing team for this cycle? I would like to do this.
lee.jarratt said: How can I join a testing team for this cycle? I would like to do this.
Take a deep breath, upgrade your sources.list to point to maverick instead of lucid, then update and upgrade. Following that learn to love apport and read the development forum prior to every upgrade just to see if there are known issues to watch out for.
it is great to see the system's life cycle from the very beginning that when it is published, of course, at that same time a bit to learn all kinds of = )
lee.jarratt said: How can I join a testing team for this cycle? I would like to do this.
sudo sed -i 's/lucid/maverick/g' /etc/apt/sources.list && sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude dist-upgrade
Oops, sorry for the confusion. I have been using Ubuntu for several years and have been following the development for the most part, and I'm on Maverick now. But someone mentioned that he joined a Ubuntu Testing Team? I wanted to know more information about that, unless I read it wrong and he was just talking about the development cycle?
lee.jarratt said: Oops, sorry for the confusion. I have been using Ubuntu for several years and have been following the development for the most part, and I'm on Maverick now. But someone mentioned that he joined a Ubuntu Testing Team? I wanted to know more information about that, unless I read it wrong and he was just talking about the development cycle?
I was reading one of the Ubuntu news sites or blogs when I came across a request for testers for a particular project. I started by sending an email to the team leader, who sent me instructions to join Launchpad and do a few other things to get started. I am sure I will continue on that team for Maverick and, if I see other opportunities, I may join another team or two.
Tim
I think this is a tough question and I have been giving it some thought.
I got into it (9.10) to see if I would learn faster. Yup, that works. So that reason is basically to improve me as a user.
Doing this for 2 full cycles now, I can see where this is also very important to the type of release schedule that Ubuntu uses. The more hardware the better the release. Assuming of coarse that you do file the occasional bug.
Then there is this forum. I doubt that most of us here spend a whole lot of time over in the gossip and shout section. It shows in the ability to give, and take strongly opposed views and not get to personal about it. I like that kind of give and take. I believe it may well broaden your outlook on a number of things.
I am surely getting a better understanding of how this bugger is put together and why. Also why a lot of folks love things I just have no use for at all.
If nothing else I have the option, now of a much better install of boinc than that offered in the repo, even if using the very same release.
So I guess that I am still mainly in it to improve myself first, on the road to perhaps being an a better member of the community.
And it is FUN.
lee.jarratt said: How can I join a testing team for this cycle? I would like to do this.
What do you have the capability of doing? I'd already installed Ubuntu dozens of times when I signed up for iso-testing, but I was still little help.
That said, even a little help is good, and you must learn sometime, if that suits you. Look here:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Procedures
Especially "What you need". Maybe that doesn't fit in with your situation.
Regardless there are many ways to help. And it's certainly OK to just "tag-along" as I did for awhile as I learned.
Don't be scared to ask stupid questions as I did here:
I participated in a closed beta for Xandros in 2000-2001, I liked seeing the OS going from something barely usable to a distribution that was fairly easy for any one to install, I thought it was pretty cool that the bugs I submitted were always fixed within a day or two of submitting, unless it was something truly weird, then direct interaction with the dev usually got the problem solved fairly quickly.
Back then forums were basically non-existent, so what we are doing here was done in a private newsgroup. Doing it the way we are, is a much better experience now.
I agree with ranch hand, I learn something new every release.
I'm fortunate that all of my hardware is fairly well supported, so using the current release can get boring at times, testing adds some excitment.
ranch hand said: I think this is a tough question and I have been giving it some thought.
I got into it (9.10) to see if I would learn faster. Yup, that works. So that reason is basically to improve me as a user.
Doing this for 2 full cycles now, I can see where this is also very important to the type of release schedule that Ubuntu uses. The more hardware the better the release. Assuming of coarse that you do file the occasional bug.
Then there is this forum. I doubt that most of us here spend a whole lot of time over in the gossip and shout section. It shows in the ability to give, and take strongly opposed views and not get to personal about it. I like that kind of give and take. I believe it may well broaden your outlook on a number of things.
I am surely getting a better understanding of how this bugger is put together and why. Also why a lot of folks love things I just have no use for at all.
If nothing else I have the option, now of a much better install of boinc than that offered in the repo, even if using the very same release.
So I guess that I am still mainly in it to improve myself first, on the road to perhaps being an a better member of the community.
And it is FUN.
Certainly all of that :)
What sort of "burns my beans" is this, "what should Ubuntu do"? Or, "what should the devs do"? Kind of mentality.
Ubuntu is shaped by users! Those with the strongest voice win :) Certainly if it comes down to a decision by SABDFL that's it!
But, what irritates me the most is seeing people whine and cry about certain decisions here on the forums (or even on Launchpad) and yet fail to go that "one step" further to present their opinion at Ayatana or whatever the appropriate venue might be!
Just FYI, I think you've always done very well :)
Suffice it to say that I get a bit "miffed" over the "what Ubuntu should do" posts.
I tend to think about my own greatest failures. For instance I actually thought this was no big deal:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/576724
Yes, I did report that, and it's a duplicate of many others, but I could have possibly had that fixed before 10.04 was released. Sadly I failed to think if I'd have understood the difference between partition and drive designations when I very first started with Ubuntu :(
Then this:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1482615
Hopefully you'll take time to read that. I actually did get a response from SABDFL but nothing beyond that so I'll wait a week and try to revive the effort.
I just feel like we should all, at the point we're ready, try to contribute to Ubuntu rather than just complaining :)
You've contributed plenty.
As writer of plugins for X-Plane I like to test them early in the cycle to be sure on release date I do not have any surprises.
Bill
kansasnoob said: What do you have the capability of doing? I'd already installed Ubuntu dozens of times when I signed up for iso-testing, but I was still little help.
That said, even a little help is good, and you must learn sometime, if that suits you. Look here:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Procedures
Especially "What you need". Maybe that doesn't fit in with your situation.
Regardless there are many ways to help. And it's certainly OK to just "tag-along" as I did for awhile as I learned.
Don't be scared to ask stupid questions as I did here:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1486315
I actually have an OCD with formatting and installing Ubuntu, I probably install Ubuntu several times a week on the same machine (but I still always set it up for Maverick). So maybe I am suited for that team ^_^
Thank you for the information :)
Lee
Pure self-interest. If I complain early enough the chances of getting stupid low priority bugs fixed is much higher.
I'd go with the general consensus of mostly self-interest. Newer programs, a more interesting system (because stability is boring), and helping out is a nice little benefit. There are quite a few projects I like to follow and using a development version only makes it easier.
Complaining in the forum as well as bug reports when things don't work helps the distribution as a whole and the discussions between people allows you and others to share knowledge about how things used to work, how they work now, and how they may work in the future. Being able to see features develop is wonderful and you are always aware of all the changes that are probably important to you by the time the new release comes out.
Whether you propose a fix or a workaround, there is always someone out there with the same situation that you have helped, and even better, there will be more where that came from as soon as the release comes out. It makes testing and using easier for everyone to simply be here.
I love it as you get to learn a lot more about how things work and about the structure of ubuntu and software development in general. It's great to watch something grow into something that works beautifully...
Several things:
It's fun testing early & the group here is very good at mutual support when show-stoppers are found---I can think back over the last 3~4 years & this forum generally gets better every release......
Final thought: Good fellowship--Great choice to give back to the community by working with a OS that we all have chosen for daily use.
Squashing bugs, if 10.10 development is going to follow on from 10.04 we're in for a quiet time :popcorn:
As a lubuntu user who will be testing that also for 10.10, it is helpful (to me, at least) to be able to see if a bug is specific to lubuntu or also affects 'main'.
But, mainly it's a nice area to hang out on, chew the fat over things and gain some appreciation of just what the devs do get upto.
I have the partitons set up and awaiting, I prefer to go with the rc of the alpha1 as my 1st installation rather than upgrading so I get a 'clean' system.
I look forward to chatting over the coming months.
Regards,
Phill.
kansasnoob said: I know when I first started I basically just tagged along, and it was interesting to see how things transpired. Then I realized that I might actually be able to learn something :D
Next I realized that I could actually help by reporting bugs, iso-testing, etc. I'm hardly as good at either as I'd like to be :(
I'm curious why others get involved and how they translate that involvement into making Ubuntu the "way they want it" or "the best it can be".
I do it for several reasons. One main reason is that I'm impatient and get bored when things just stop changing.
Updates are like little gifts to me. I enjoy seeing how they fix/break things. It's also a chance to learn. It's difficult to stuff intelligent information into my head, but I learn a little more with each cycle. Every time I fix something I've not run across before (or more accurately, beg for help to fix something I've not run across before), I learn a great deal and it helps me down the road.
The earlier a bug is discovered, the longer we have to address it. I don't really program these days so what I can do to make Linux better is to put my vast talent for destruction to use in testing.
I have yet to find a piece of software without bugs and I have yet to find a piece of software I couldn't break. I figure that will be my contribution for the time being.
Also it's good fun. Generally the development platform is plenty stable for daily use so my machines all run the latest development release.
I don't mind if a given program doesn't work for a few days or if I need to use a workaround of some sort. Occasionally it's even fun and one gets to be familiar with the different codebases when tracking down recent breakage.
This is also why intentionally breaking everything annoys me, such as the rgba and csd merge last friday. I don't mind things breaking here and there, in fact I strive to make it so but intentionally screwing up everything just ruins my fun and my productivity (here measured in how many bugs I can uncover in a day).
Basically so long as it boots, some form of X comes up, there is network, my browser and amsn (plus webcam) works I can use the system day to day.
These aren't high demands (in fact having been part of the Fedora development team, these are slightly above the unofficial release criteria: it boots, network is up and yum works, since then any issue is in practice fixable post release. To be fair, we did aim higher but those were the basic demands for any computer).
I do consider testing important, there is only so many developers and only so many setups to test on. To hit all the corner cases and to ensure that all applications and all bits of functionality is reached in every cycle we need willing testers. It also means we hit every hardware combination under the sun (hopefully) and we have a known state for most types of machines come release day.
I've been with Linux for more than a decade, for my money, testing is by far the most entertaining type of contribution.
Mostly I run new stuff to satisfy my desire to run new stuff.
I guess outside of that, why I think it's important would best be described by a picture....
[img]http://home.comcast.net/~seeker5528/Ripple.jpg[/img]
Your ripples may never directly intersect with those of someone else, but indirect influence may still result through the chains of intersections in between.
Later, Seeker
seeker5528 said: Mostly I run new stuff to satisfy my desire to run new stuff.
I guess outside of that, why I think it's important would best be described by a picture....
[img]http://home.comcast.net/~seeker5528/Ripple.jpg[/img]
Your ripples may never directly intersect with those of someone else, but indirect influence may still result through the chains of intersections in between.
Later, Seeker
This kind of reminds me of the book "The Tipping Point"...
Self-interest is not necessarily self-serving.
Using Ubuntu is a lot like going to the ballot box. If you don't vote, don't complain. "Wahhh! The Developers this and the Developers that!"
Well, folks, why didn't you say something when they were cooking it up? If you see someone cooking cabbage for your dinner and you don't say something then, shut up and eat your dinner. You had your chance.
I test early on for three reasons, primarily:
But the upshot of all that is that when I come to the forum to help someone with a problem, I've gotten my hands greasy, I've lurked in the shadows in Launchpad reading a lot, and I've broken my system (sometimes on purpose, sometimes not). That translates into a better and better ability to address the concerns of those who later have problems.
That, and the fact that since I set up a test environment separately from my production environment, I am free to do all the destructive testing I want. In my former profession, I loved to make things go boom. I guess I still do.