I've heard from a few sources that 11.10 might have Thunderbird as the default mail client. Does Thunderbird have proper exchange support in it yet? If not will it be added before the launch date? Alot of companies here use exchange to handle email.
Thunderbird by default?
Archived thread 1756540 from Oneiric Ocelot Testing and Discussion (CLOSED). Markdown source: Oneiric_Ocelot_Testing_and_Discussion_(CLOSED)/thread_1756540_Thunderbird_by_default.md
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Johnsie said: I've heard from a few sources that 11.04 might have Thunderbird as the default mail client. Does Thunderbird have proper exchange support in it yet? If not will it be added before the launch date? Alot of companies here use exchange to handle email.
Natty (11.04) is already released and it has Evolution as default mail client. You probably meant Oneiric (11.10), where Thunderbird will likely be the default one.
Evolution still buggy in natty. But love the Google calendar integration. Is this good now in Thunderbird.
Maybe this will happen on ubuntu 11:10
geazzy said: Maybe this will happen on ubuntu 11:10
It will very likely happen.
Sorry I made a typo.. I meant 11.10.
That's where I heard it first :-)
Today at UDS Budapest there was a discussion about what default e-mail client to use for Ubuntu 11.10. Up to this point GNOME's Evolution program has been used within Ubuntu, but there's a growing desire to use Mozilla's Thunderbird as the default e-mail client.
The resistance against using Thunderbird as the default Ubuntu e-mail client has come down to the program lacking Microsoft Exchange support at this time (Evolution supports it) and calendar/contacts integration. To get Thunderbird well integrated with the Ubuntu desktop it would need evolution-data-server support, calendar integration, and contacts integration. Some of these items have been somewhat achieved while other areas are still being tackled. There's also more opportunities for better desktop integration with its look and feel to provide a consistent user experience.
Work is already under-way on integrating Unity desktop support into Thunderbird along with Ubuntu One contact syncing support, indicator-message integration, and various other items.
No firm decision has yet been made whether Mozilla Thunderbird will become the default e-mail application in Ubuntu 11.10, but the preliminary decision is leaning towards using Thunderbird. If a change doesn't occur with the Oneiric Ocelot, it's likely no change will occur until Ubuntu 12.10 due to 12.04 being a Long-Term Support release where they're less prone to introduce such front-facing changes.
I for one vote for Mozilla Thunderbird as the default e-mail client. The official UDS Budapest notes for the Thunderbird discussion can be found on this page. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTQzOA
This thread should be merged with this one here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1756540
Harry33 said: This thread should be merged with this one here:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1756540
yeah it should be. thanks
As a user I wouldn't mind, because TB is already default on all my systems. :P
Looking at the discussion notes though, there still seem to be many issues needing work: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/desktop-o-default-email-client/
Without Exchange support in Thunderbird, it is a no go for me on my work machine... And I don't see it planned anywhere. Is it ?
Not that I know, the question is: does the typical Ubuntu desktop user need Exchange support?
Default applications should fit the needs of the *typical user*™. I mean, if you need it, you are still free to change the default e-mail client. It's not like installing software on Ubuntu is rocket science. :)
MacUntu said: Not that I know, the question is: does the typical Ubuntu desktop user need Exchange support?
Default applications should fit the needs of the *typical user*™. I mean, if you need it, you are still free to change the default e-mail client. It's not like installing software on Ubuntu is rocket science. :)
+1000
Exactly. And this is why adding exchange support will not be part of the criteria set out for us to ship Thunderbird by default.
From what I see the Typical user™ uses webmail services like Gmail or LiveMail. Neither Evolution nor Thunderbird.
The typical office worker uses Outlook as a client for Exchange, certainly in most big companies and government facilities anyway. If Ubuntu wants to be a professional operating system then it needs to work in corporate environments, preferably out of the box.
I use Thunderbird at work, connecting to exchange with IMAP. I used to use Evolution, but LDAP never worked properly and it crashed a lot. It's also bloody awful at dealing with HTML e-mail.
The lightning add-on for Thunderbird works well, the base is solid, and LDAP works perfectly. I imagine that for *most* users, it's a better choice; the rest can always install evolution/other.
roootasoo said: I have recently moved to Firefox, and find it to be very good.
Talking about email applications here. Do you mean you use webmail?
Threads Merged.
lucazade said: From what I see the Typical user™ uses webmail services like Gmail or LiveMail.
Neither Evolution nor Thunderbird.
Can you back that up or is it just a guess based on your experiences? ;)
MacUntu said: Can you back that up or is it just a guess based on your experiences? ;)
It is based obviously on my experiences! :)
No one of my friends and relatives are able to setup an email client (probably because when they tried for first time Outlook was "hard" to understand/configure.. now pop/imap servers are automatically filled and interfaces are simpler) so they use only webmails.
At work I've used both Outlook and IBM Lotus.. this is due to Company's decisions and I cannot use anything else.
Personally I don't see a great utilization of Gui email client for Home users nowadays.
There's a networking guy on another forum who is more knowledgeable than me(which is not a ringing endorsement :)). He's not a fan of "cloud computing"....except for email. His thinking is that the spam and malware filters configured by major email providers are more effective than the defaults that come with email clients are are more frequently updated. Home/casual users probably are not going to configure anything--what is installed initially is what gets used.
walt.smith1960 said: There's a networking guy on another forum who is more knowledgeable than me(which is not a ringing endorsement :)). He's not a fan of "cloud computing"....except for email. His thinking is that the spam and malware filters configured by major email providers are more effective than the defaults that come with email clients are are more frequently updated. Home/casual users probably are not going to configure anything--what is installed initially is what gets used.
Most home users are probably polling the same major providers, so their junk is still screened.
In a perfect world the email menu items would work with whatever email client the user has chosen as their default. Hard-wiring it for a specific app makes it close to useless for many people.
Thunderbird is better than evolution, and we need some type of email client.
I think it ends there.
CreativeReach said: Thunderbird is better than evolution, and we need some type of email client.
I think it ends there.
Thunderbird better than Evolution? Based on what? Simply the appereance?
In my job cloud/webmail based email is a big no-no. I work with alot of confidential data. That data has to stay on our systems.
The home user is not the same as the office user. Few homes have a corporate lan setup with requirements for company wide communications etc. That's why most people use webmail for their personal emails. The good thing about Evolution is that it works for both the home and the office setup. If Thunderbird also supported exchange then it would have alot more potential for office use.
Most office workers spend more time on their computer in the office than they do at home. I think Thunderbird is a better designed product than Evolution. The bottom line is that having exchange support in Thunderbird would make it more suitable for professional environments.
Johnsie said: In my job cloud/webmail based email is a big no-no. I work with alot of confidential data. That data has to stay on our systems.
...
Please explain a bit deeper this opinion. Do you think webmail (shtml) is not safe enough?
Hey, Hope it is gmail by default !!!
Yep, I am running android on my phone, and all my computers (running ubuntu of course) sync automatically with my Android Phone because of Gmail.
Everything should sync together, mail, calendar, contacts , etc.
OOPS they do, because of Google and android.
Guess Ubuntu (which I love) showed up to the show late LOL
Seriously, who cares about a mail client when you can surf the cloud.
Syncing bookmarks easily would be nice too, but FF for Android sucks, Dolpin much better.
Sorry folks , this is old school, the wars between thunderbird, evolution, outlook , is just so in the past LOL
BORING!!!!!
Johnsie said: In my job cloud/webmail based email is a big no-no. I work with alot of confidential data. That data has to stay on our systems.
The home user is not the same as the office user. Few homes have a corporate lan setup with requirements for company wide communications etc. That's why most people use webmail for their personal emails. The good thing about Evolution is that it works for both the home and the office setup. If Thunderbird also supported exchange then it would have alot more potential for office use.
Most office workers spend more time on their computer in the office than they do at home. I think Thunderbird is a better designed product than Evolution. The bottom line is that having exchange support in Thunderbird would make it more suitable for professional environments.
If somebody want to steal your data, they can. Just need laptop and sit and the parking lot of yo company and steal the data packets.
It's all over the news man, you need an encrypted cloud to play on.
In my job cloud/webmail based email is a big no-no. I work with alot of confidential data. That data has to stay on our systems. To presume that the default installation of any OS in a corporate environment is acceptable would be a mistake.
It's against the law in many countries to pass confidential data to a third party company without permission. Having that data/email hosted by a 3rd party would be illegal. Having a localised intranet mail system that runs in a browser could possibly be accepted, however most browsers don't communitate well with the desktop or other applications. The good thing about good desktop email clients are that they work well with office suites.
I had heard that the powers that be leaning towards making Thunderbird the default client over evolution. First is that true? Second what is the rationale for the change. No judgement, really just curious.
Thanks
Its a Mozilla client, people are familiar with it and with the Lightning extension, it will connect to Microsoft Exchange networks.
I used to use Thunderbird and I long wondered why Ubuntu had Evolution as default client. So I moved to Evolution to take advantage of its better integration with the desktop. Now they are changing to Thunderbird...bah
There is still a big IF to Thunderbird being default... that is, IF they can get it fully integrated into Oneiric in time. We shall see.
I certainly hope so. Evolution's functionality has been sorely hamstrung by the dev's strict adherence to some sort of development philosophy which makes it a sin to provide adequate html support or minimize to tray capability.
Unlike a lot of people, I like the look & feel of Evolution over Tbird, but the former has such gaping holes in its usefulness that I would much prefer the latter become the default.
Docaltmed said: I certainly hope so. Evolution's functionality has been sorely hamstrung by the dev's strict adherence to some sort of development philosophy which makes it a sin to provide adequate html support or minimize to tray capability.
Actually, Evo 3.2 is moving to WebKit for HTML.
NormanFLinux said: Its a Mozilla client, people are familiar with it and with the Lightning extension, it will connect to Microsoft Exchange networks.
Last I heard, TB had no open source component for connecting with Microsoft Exchange networks. That's one of the issues it must overcome.
Most companies and colleges have exchange based networks. It will be necessary for exchange to work.This includes email, calendar sharing and especially the company address book. I'm not convinced thunderbird is ready for this, but maybe being made default would encourage people to develop that capability.
I will continue to roll out Evolution on the Linux workstations in our company until Thunderbird has been improved to a level that I'm happy with.
Lightning adds a calendar to Thunderbird, not Microsoft Exchange sync.
Threads Merged.
@tumbes2000,
Please search first before starting threads. Cheers.
+1 for TB as the default, or at the least as a default facilitated installation (like the facilitated Firefox installation).
I use Lightning (calendar extension) quite a bit. It accesses pretty tranparently Google calendars, CalDAV calendars, iCal calendars, etc. (It should be noted that Lightning is currently available only for 32-bit operating systems. I actually moved from 64-bit (K)Ubuntu to 32-bit (K)Ubuntu partially because of this.)
I use Enigmail (PGP extension) quite a bit. IMO all email should be encrypted. Enigmail makes this automatic with very little installation effort.
I use IMAP (connection wizard integrated with Thunderbird) quite a bit.
I use multiple accounts and move emails between them (facilitated by and standard in TB) quite a bit.
I like the extensions that are shared with Firefox (script blockers, ad-blockers, etc).
TB is just too powerful and is one of the best e-mail clients I have ever used.
It is also extremely attractive that it is cross-platform. It can be used by co-workers, friends, family on different OS platforms in an identical fashion. My Mac compatriots have gone to it, as have my Windows compatriots.
Further, I use it on both Ubuntu and Kubuntu, without having to worry about Evolution or Kmail.
Lastly, of course, TB is relatively seamless with Firefox, while able to be kept separate when desired. Its configuration style is similar to that of Firefox (which has been my default for years) so TB configuration is intuitive for me.
arpanaut said: There is still a big IF to Thunderbird being default... that is, IF they can get it fully integrated into Oneiric in time.
We shall see.
Why, what's the problem? I've used TB exclusively since Lucid. Version 3.1 is superb. There are .deb packages and installation (currently from the Mozilla Launchpad repositories) is relatively trivial to accomplish.
perspectoff said: Why, what's the problem?
At the moment I think that would be the gnome calendar/clock applet integration. With evo and google calendar I can just click on the clock to see stuff without opening any apps at all.
I guess that is the integration/problem to be got around.
philinux said: At the moment I think that would be the gnome calendar/clock applet integration. With evo and google calendar I can just click on the clock to see stuff without opening any apps at all.
I guess that is the integration/problem to be got around.
OIC.
To me an applet is an app, anyway, and one-click to bring up an applet or one click to bring up an application is the same thing. (For this reason I no longer use applets, now that the initial "gee-whiz" factor has worn off.) And, of course, applets are largely desktop specific. Even Gnome and KDE have different applet systems. What does Unity use?
Functionality trumps form, IMO.
I use thunderbird with exchange via davmail. For me, this works far better than evolution's perennially flaky "built-in" support.
http://davmail.sourceforge.net/thunderbirdimapmailsetup.html
Dav mail is not an acceptable solution for medium to large companies, it's more of a hack and it's not very reliable, nor can it deal with the server-side address books etc. What they need to do is either revamp Evolution or somehow make Thunderbird exchange friendly.
Well at first I thought it would be great to switch to thunderbird since it handles google contacts and calendar better than evolution and it is used and recognized on other OSes. However, I have found thunderbird to be too problematic when handling imap. At first I thought it was my service (even through my basic xoom email client has no issues handling the same imap accounts), so I switched back to Evolution and my email is working great. However, evolution cannot sync with my google contacts (known bug), which is frustrating.
So until thunderbird can fix the issues handling IMAP (and exchange for that matter), I would be reluctant to make it the default email account. Maybe I am missing something, but that is my experience so far.
tumbes2000 said: Well at first I thought it would be great to switch to thunderbird since it handles google contacts and calendar better than evolution and it is used and recognized on other OSes. However, I have found thunderbird to be too problematic when handling imap. At first I thought it was my service (even through my basic xoom email client has no issues handling the same imap accounts), so I switched back to Evolution and my email is working great. However, evolution cannot sync with my google contacts (known bug), which is frustrating.
So until thunderbird can fix the issues handling IMAP (and exchange for that matter), I would be reluctant to make it the default email account. Maybe I am missing something, but that is my experience so far.
What are the problems handling imap? I have been using imap in tbird under both windows and ubuntu for a few years and not encountered any issue.
perspectoff said: It should be noted that Lightning is currently available only for 32-bit operating systems. I actually moved from 64-bit (K)Ubuntu to 32-bit (K)Ubuntu partially because of this.
There is a 64-bit version of Lightning (and the Google Calendar integration xpi) here. They both just installed cleanly in my Thunderbird 3.1.10 from the Natty repositories. Use Tools > Add-Ons > Extensions, then click the Install button and point to the downloaded .xpi files.
SeijiSensei said: There is a 64-bit version of Lightning (and the Google Calendar integration xpi) here. They both just installed cleanly in my Thunderbird 3.1.10 from the Natty repositories. Use Tools > Add-Ons > Extensions, then click the Install button and point to the downloaded .xpi files.
Indeed, I also use it on my installs; it's yet to error.
Skelator said: Dav mail is not an acceptable solution for medium to large companies, it's more of a hack and it's not very reliable, nor can it deal with the server-side address books etc. What they need to do is either revamp Evolution or somehow make Thunderbird exchange friendly.
I work for a large company with an employee count in the 5 figure range. And there are very, very few large corporations whose IT departments formally support anything other than an enterprise linux seat (e.g. redhat).
The "more of a hack" criticism is content-free. With davmail I have full access to exchange, calendar, and ldap. Evolution has only occasionally come close to this functionality. I should also note that evolution is currently broken (again):
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-mapi/+bug/740642
alphacrucis2 said: What are the problems handling imap? I have been using imap in tbird under both windows and ubuntu for a few years and not encountered any issue.
Many exchange mail servers disable IMAP due to bugs and security issues. Thank you microsoft.
alphacrucis2 said: What are the problems handling imap? I have been using imap in tbird under both windows and ubuntu for a few years and not encountered any issue.
I have problems sending attachments that are 2 MB or bigger, I get a lot of sent fails. I do not get those fails with evolution or on my xoom email client. Evolution also seems faster at getting email list updates.
thunderbird is the default in alpha 1 tomorrow?
Thunderbird 5 beta 1 is now in Oneiric.I install and took screenshot.
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/thunderbird
[IMG]http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd295/sku5/ONEIRIC/Pantallazo.png[/IMG]