Jono Bacon had an interesting post on his blog today:
http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/18/creating-an-ubuntu-power-user-community/
I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
Power Users Team
Archived thread 1762207 from Oneiric Ocelot Testing and Discussion (CLOSED). Markdown source: Oneiric_Ocelot_Testing_and_Discussion_(CLOSED)/thread_1762207_Power_Users_Team.md
Great post! I really hope it can go somewhere. GL :)
I thought Ubuntu power users, were called Debian users..?
I think this idea is worth some consideration. I can't see the needs of newbies and power users being served equally by one environment. If Ubuntu is going after the newbies, then perhaps its up to us power users to take care of our own needs.
The only think I worry about is how sustained the commitment to this community will be. By focusing our feature requests on an outside community and not the main Ubuntu project, we run the risk of losing all our tweaks if the PUC (Power Users Community) ever falls apart and abandons the project. I think one of the community's goals should be to rally for as much of its output as possible to be eventually added into the vanilla Ubuntu feature set, and to save the really esoteric and corner-case stuff for the PPA.
If only Canonical would support it.....or maybe that destroys the whole idea of being user based.
This sounds like..."Ubuntu Add-ons".
Canonical could implement an Unity API, if it doesn't already exist, and a web site like Mozilla AMO. This site could be an extension of the Software Center, like the AMO site works in conjunction with Firefox Add-on Manager. It would be a place where developers could easily upload apps, themes and scripts to be reviewed and eventually incorporated into the *ubuntu-expert-desktop* ppa.
I love the idea of a "power users" community. I happen to love Ubuntu, and Unity and think that Ubuntu is heading in the right direction. However, you can't really please both groups at the same time. But, that doesn't mean developers/power users and n00bs can't exist in the same community.
Ubuntu is still Linux, I can do with Ubuntu what I can do with any other distro. Really, all I ask for is that Ubuntu remain Linux and never start to behave like OS X :P
But all in all, I'm 100% on board for this! It would be very nice to have a specific place on the forums or on irc for me to go to talk with like minded people, who are "experts" and know what they are talking about when it comes to Linux and Ubuntu specifically. (and somewhere to escape newbies from time to time :P)
But, like it was said before we (the developers/experts/power users) I think need to take things into our own hands. Create our own tools, and start the group ourselves. Ubuntu's main focus is the mass market of end users who more than likely can't tell a mouse from a hard drive. Plus, having used a plethora of other distros (from Gentoo, to Arch to straight Debian) I've settled on the Ubuntu community mostly and would hate to see this awesome distro dumb itself down to the point of abandoning expert Linux users and developers.
--EDIT--
Wanted to add, these tools for customisation must have a command line alternative to a gui too. For example, if I want to change the autohide or transparency feature I don't want to have to dig through buttons in a control panel, I'd much rather be able to type a command (similar to the new gsettings interface in gnome 3/gnome-shell). Especially since I spend most of my time in a full screen terminal :D)
First of all, I really wish something like this could succeed. However...
Power users aren't Canonical's focus. And there's no reason why they have to be. Power user, by definition means more capable than most, and more able to overcome the hindrances to get their perfect environment. Though you can't expect to have all the know-how to get there... if you even can.
If changes don't go into Ubuntu, we'll end up with a lot of package changes we'll need to maintain (see the notify-osd configuration mess). We'd also want a unified section with good discoverability for both community-based development as well as acquisition of new plugins/patches.
We already talked about people having different levels they want to work on, and the separation will only create more ppas for different use cases, the pick-and-choose style will cause changes to be incompatible with each other. The decentralized way this would need to work to move forward at a good rate would cause duplication of work as well as foster poor and/or unmaintained code.
-At what point do we say 'you should try a different distro' because we aren't going that far?
-At what point do we _become_ a different distro, or at least our own Ubuntu spin?
-At what point do we say we're with Ubuntu for the community, not the product?
-Work would be mostly meant for the stable releases, so where do pre-alpha adopter fit in, especially when the most interesting things to hack on are the moving targets?
-How long until Ubuntu would have a robust and flexible enough plugin system to meet the needs of the community itching to make their desktops their own once again?
-I don't see new compiz plugins popping up everywhere (at least anymore) what makes this different? Its newness?
Everyone would try to make this work because we want to stay with Ubuntu, and I hope that doesn't end up as a limiting factor.
I'd say that after a certain point, you realize that you're part of a niche market even within linux, or at least the Ubuntu flavor of linux -- a niche within a niche. Oh, and if you haven't already, take a look at the monthly screenshot thread in the community café. You'll see all levels of changes, from changing the wallpaper to changing the everything. There are limits to what Canonical can support, but not limits on what individuals can accomplish.
C. Provide tools The ability to configure things has to happen in the source code. Tools alone don't move the launcher bar to the right, let me resize the top panel, make the urgency color orange instead of blue, etc.
joined the mailing list... lets see how much attention this gathers and what can be done :) no point in just rolling over and quitting on Unity just because it lacks the features we need
First, lets create the option to have the things we want as add-ons
Then when enough people find them usable, lets push them into Ubuntu main
no need to be fooled by this marketing approach to calm down a huge part of the experienced users community: Ubuntu is now designed for kids not for humans
I'm in. Would like to see where we can take this.
Does this mean a sub-forum of some sort?
dino99 said: no need to be fooled by this marketing approach to calm down a huge part of the experienced users community: Ubuntu is now designed for kids not for humans
Most kids I know are human. ):P
I threw up in my mouth a little.
BwackNinja said: First of all, I really wish something like this could succeed. However...
Power users aren't Canonical's focus. And there's no reason why they have to be. Power user, by definition means more capable than most, and more able to overcome the hindrances to get their perfect environment. Though you can't expect to have all the know-how to get there... if you even can.
If changes don't go into Ubuntu, we'll end up with a lot of package changes we'll need to maintain (see the notify-osd configuration mess). We'd also want a unified section with good discoverability for both community-based development as well as acquisition of new plugins/patches.
We already talked about people having different levels they want to work on, and the separation will only create more ppas for different use cases, the pick-and-choose style will cause changes to be incompatible with each other. The decentralized way this would need to work to move forward at a good rate would cause duplication of work as well as foster poor and/or unmaintained code.
-At what point do we say 'you should try a different distro' because we aren't going that far?
-At what point do we _become_ a different distro, or at least our own Ubuntu spin?
-At what point do we say we're with Ubuntu for the community, not the product?
-Work would be mostly meant for the stable releases, so where do pre-alpha adopter fit in, especially when the most interesting things to hack on are the moving targets?
-How long until Ubuntu would have a robust and flexible enough plugin system to meet the needs of the community itching to make their desktops their own once again?
-I don't see new compiz plugins popping up everywhere (at least anymore) what makes this different? Its newness?
Everyone would try to make this work because we want to stay with Ubuntu, and I hope that doesn't end up as a limiting factor.
I'd say that after a certain point, you realize that you're part of a niche market even within linux, or at least the Ubuntu flavor of linux -- a niche within a niche. Oh, and if you haven't already, take a look at the monthly screenshot thread in the community café. You'll see all levels of changes, from changing the wallpaper to changing the everything. There are limits to what Canonical can support, but not limits on what individuals can accomplish.
You hit the nail right on the head as far as the my concerns go. As an unofficial group, united not by a common conception of what precisely we need but merely the idea that we need something, the possibility of fragmentation is all too great.
For instance, the example given in the blog post demonstrates how we can differ even on the usefulness of a single tool. I have virtually no use for the majority of the settings in CCSM, but the ones that control Unity were the reason I broke down and installed CCSM in the first place. I would like to see *more* Unity controls added, and if just the Unity settings were broken out and given their own application (in fact, that's just what Gunity does), that would be all I would need. For somebody for whom those other Compiz settings are important, what satisfies my requirements is woefully inadequate.
meborc said: First, lets create the option to have the things we want as add-ons
Then when enough people find them usable, lets push them into Ubuntu main
I agree, and I said as much in my other post. This stuff needs to be made available and needs development behind it in the main OS--I'm sure our tools would be much more effective if Ubuntu were designed with their inclusion in mind instead of them being made after the fact, almost "reverse-engineered" (though of course that doesn't strictly apply because the source code is available). Suppose we "hid" them the way VLC does with its advanced controls--toggle a button and all the advanced parameters come up. Newbies could safely and freely ignore these, and power users could tweak to their hearts' content. This would also ensure that all the settings relevant to a particular aspect of the OS would be organized in one place, as opposed to the "expert" settings getting their own separate pane like the Compiz ones do.
wojox said: I'm in. Would like to see where we can take this.
Does this mean a sub-forum of some sort?
Everyone interested, join the discussion at #ubuntu-power-users IRC channel
I don't like the way this is going.
Wouldn't a power user prefer to be several tiers down the layer cake, possibly in the Gnome/X11 layers, instead of adding yet another tier of bloat? Instead of adding another layer to the cake, instead add tools to the layer below Unity, so people will have more of a choice in what they work with and how it works.
Instead of having a package that might or might not conflict with Unity, why not just have a separate release of non-Unity Ubuntu, designed with power users in mind, who can optionally install Unity if they want? It would also have the added bonus of luring people back who stopped using Ubuntu or went to K/X/Lubuntu because they didn't want Unity stuffed down their throat in the first place.
Hell, it might not even require a separate release. Just have an option at the installer screen to select "basic mode" or "advanced mode." The relevant packages should already be on the iso anyway.
Instead of having a package that might or might not conflict with Unity, why not just have a separate release of non-Unity Ubuntu, designed with power users in mind, who can optionally install Unity if they want?
There's nothing stopping anyone from doing just that.
It would also have the added bonus of luring people back who stopped using Ubuntu or went to K/X/Lubuntu because they didn't want Unity stuffed down their throat in the first place.
Did someone come to your house and force you to upgrade to Unity or something?
Just have an option at the installer screen to select "basic mode" or "advanced mode." The relevant packages should already be on the iso anyway.
The alternate installer has options to install a base system and then install what you want on top.
teh603 said: I don't like the way this is going.
Wouldn't a power user prefer to be several tiers down the layer cake, possibly in the Gnome/X11 layers, instead of adding yet another tier of bloat? Instead of adding another layer to the cake, instead add tools to the layer below Unity, so people will have more of a choice in what they work with and how it works...
i guess you missed the point... the power users group is for people who WANT to use Unity
Did someone come to your house and force you to upgrade to Unity or something?
Somebody let me download Unity for free. And when it wasn't everything I wanted, I got rid of Unity and installed Lubuntu. When Lubuntu Natty was dull (that is, nothing was broken) I upgraded to Oneiric.
Any power users who are interested, please feel free to add features and fixes to Lubuntu!
BwackNinja said: If changes don't go into Ubuntu, we'll end up with a lot of package changes we'll need to maintain (see the notify-osd configuration mess).
If something is wrong in the base environment it should be fixed in the base environment, to me that seems a bit orthogonal to what Jono is describing in his blog.
It seems to me the first order of business would be to look at the situation as it currently exists creating an ubuntu-expert-desktop meta-package and add the dependencies to it the pull in stuff that's already in the repositories that provide the additional stuff that power users like.
Then start looking at additional stuff that may be in the works like Quicklist Editor for Unity Launcher for example and creating new stuff.
Maybe analyze what can be done just with some different configuration choices to determine if it might be desirable to create an ubuntu-expert-default-settings package.
I expect along the way there might be some head butting over what should or shouldn't be changed in Unity to provide more flexibility for expert desktop stuff, but I don't see why changes to it to allow for additional expert stuff should have to be all that invasive.
Note that I am not a developer, so this is just a generalized view, based on observed behavior of Unity and the way different environments are created within Ubuntu. The difference between Lubuntu and the stock LXDE environment for example or the addition of Mythbuntu Control Centre in Mythbuntu to help manage MythTV and related things.
Later, Seeker
seeker5528 said: If something is wrong in the base environment it should be fixed in the base environment, to me that seems a bit orthogonal to what Jono is describing in his blog.
The problem is the word "wrong." I gave the example of the notify-osd configuration because its something that people feel very strongly about (though I don't personally use it), and its not just that the GUI is lacking in a default install, but it requires patches that are not being pushed into the base environment.
It seems to me the first order of business would be to look at the situation as it currently exists creating an ubuntu-expert-desktop meta-package and add the dependencies to it the pull in stuff that's already in the repositories that provide the additional stuff that power users like.
Then start looking at additional stuff that may be in the works like Quicklist Editor for Unity Launcher for example and creating new stuff.
Maybe analyze what can be done just with some different configuration choices to determine if it might be desirable to create an ubuntu-expert-default-settings package.
The ubuntu-expert-default-settings package might be nice, but normal users may be told to install it when something is not quite to their liking, rather than the specific package that brings the configuration they want, and have more options than they want to deal with.
I expect along the way there might be some head butting over what should or shouldn't be changed in Unity to provide more flexibility for expert desktop stuff, but I don't see why changes to it to allow for additional expert stuff should have to be all that invasive.
And the problem rears its ugly head again, merging changes to Unity means that these changes have to be supported by more than just the community. Again, back to the notify-osd patches, someone has to maintain all of it, and it only makes things harder for the Ubuntu devs and adds more to test.
meborc said: Everyone interested, join the discussion at #ubuntu-power-users IRC channel
Done irc and mailing list. Thanks. :P
BwackNinja said: The problem is the word "wrong." I gave the example of the notify-osd configuration because its something that people feel very strongly about (though I don't personally use it), and its not just that the GUI is lacking in a default install, but it requires patches that are not being pushed into the base environment.
Not every battle will be won, proposed changes still would have to fit within the design goals of those components and what Canonical want for the default desktop experience.
Looking specifically at the notify-osd situation.
I googled for it, I thought it was a case of something that was wrong with notify-osd.
It's a small utility designed for a specific function and display things in a consistent way.
Something an alternative could be provided for in the same way that I use kmix instead of the mixer that is supplied by default.
Something the might be a good project for a power users group to tackle, maybe a forked version with a slightly different name that could be included in the repositories, then dependencies updated in the packages that depend on it so they would accept 'notify-osd | forked-notify-osd' to satisfy the dependency, might have to be some conflicts/provides kind of thing between the versions as well.
If there is a group that is able to define the issues, make a good case for necessary changes, and take ownership of related maintenance issues maybe (I stress maybe) maybe some of these modifications would have a better reception.
First there has to be a group that, knowing that their influence on core things will probably be limited, is willing to do what they can do and see where things go from there as they learn how to define the issues and where they are more likely to be able to get changes in.
Later, Seeker
castrojo said: There's nothing stopping anyone from doing just that.
Did someone come to your house and force you to upgrade to Unity or something?
The alternate installer has options to install a base system and then install what you want on top. So installing Debian, the true base system is the best way to go?
dino99 said: no need to be fooled by this marketing approach to calm down a huge part of the experienced users community: Ubuntu is now designed for kids not for humans
That is certainly the way it seems. Sesame Street Linux.
Cope57 said: I thought Ubuntu power users, were called Debian users..?
I do not consider my self an Ubuntu power user but what you say certainly looks like it has way too much truth in it to ignore.
Ubuntu is kind of fun, in a boring way, but if you want a working, workable system that, with a very little work, is pleasing to the eye, easy to work without a cheat sheet to try and speed it up, Debian is just the ticket.
I certainly hope that instead of these obvious attempts to devide and separate folks will stop before the bleeding off of serious computer users leaves Ubuntu with a user base of folks not quite up to understanding the technology they are using. I have very little hope, but hope none the less.
If you're going to call Ubuntu/Unity sesame street Linux, shouldn't we call Debian crusty old fart's Linux? Let's get the terminology right. :) :) :)
ranch hand said: That is certainly the way it seems. Sesame Street Linux.
How many times are you going to troll on Ubuntu threads? We get it, you don't like Ubuntu and you moved to Debian.
There's no need to get in the way of people trying to improve things, stop being a meany pants.
castrojo said: How many times are you going to troll on Ubuntu threads? We get it, you don't like Ubuntu and you moved to Debian.
There's no need to get in the way of people trying to improve things, stop being a meany pants. In actuality I had not moved completely to Debian. As far as my main, reliable, secure OS goes yes.
As far as wiping all Ubuntu installs no. Still haven't.
After reading this thread and that asinine blog I have wiped the root partition to my oldest, most loved, and last Ubuntu testing install and Debian is being install for the root of that.
I do not feel that an out fit that acts this way is worth donating my time and hardware to any longer.
ranch hand said: In actuality I had not moved completely to Debian. As far as my main, reliable, secure OS goes yes.
As far as wiping all Ubuntu installs no. Still haven't.
After reading this thread and that asinine blog I have wiped the root partition to my oldest, most loved, and last Ubuntu testing install and Debian is being install for the root of that.
I do not feel that an out fit that acts this way is worth donating my time and hardware to any longer.
Ranch Hand,
I feel sorry to see an experienced member being treated like this. This should be an open discussion forum where people are free to express their views. There is enough space for that in this forum, I think. It is of utmost importance to hear the words from unsatisfied members too. In the long run, it does not help so much, if we only accept "yes" opinions.
It would be better if we would accept opinions without being offended so easily.
It seems to me a nice idea.. I hope to see something good coming from this power users team. Where possible I'll try to help :)
Harry33 said: Ranch Hand,
I feel sorry to see an experienced member being treated like this. This should be an open discussion forum where people are free to express their views. There is enough space for that in this forum, I think. It is of utmost importance to hear the words from unsatisfied members too. In the long run, it does not help so much, if we only accept "yes" opinions.
It would be better if we would accept opinions without being offended so easily.
and you wonder why this forum is losing so many members to other Distro's like Debian . but i agree with you Harry, i sometimes wonder why they are bothering to upgrade this forum when its obvious that more members of the forum are going elsewhere
cariboo907 said: Jono Bacon had an interesting post on his blog today:
http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/18/creating-an-ubuntu-power-user-community/
I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. Hrm...
I just read the post and, yes, it's interesting. Thanks, for the link!
You asked for our thoughts, so I guess I should oblige you.
I initially couldn't get past the term "Power User" (I was thinking about Power Rangers - maybe Jono grew up with them too) so I parsed the post, looking for clues to the meaning.
A short list, from the post:
- New user
- Simplified user
- Unity user
- Ubuntu user
- End-user
- Power user
- Ubuntu power user
- Like-minded power users
There it was, "power users":
[...] power users (users who want to tune and optimize their system around their specific needs).
To my way of thinking, that would be everybody, i.e. everyone is a power user, but we already have a community for them - several, actually.
Conversely, there is the "end-user":
[...] mums and dads of the world (end users who are resistant to complexity and configurability) [...]
If anything, they would be Windows users, no? And, they're supported elsewhere on the web, ad infinitum.
I dunno...
The post makes a couple of references to "expert users":
One key piece of feedback from some Unity users was a concern around the lack of configurability in Unity, and a feeling that it is a little too simple and does not expose enough of the system, for which many more expert Ubuntu users enjoy. [...]
Most people, even expert and power users, will typically only care about a particular layer and just want the other layers to work.[...]
I believe most of "us" fall somewhere between "power users" and "expert Ubuntu users".
Personally, I can transform Ubuntu into anything I want. I can tune and optimize Ubuntu around my specific needs, and I don't need any crutches to do it. The only thing stopping me is a lack of imagination. LoL!
I think it would be a nice idea to emulate the Windows community, to help the "mums and dads" of the Linux world, if they actually exist. I've never run across one.
Anyway, those are my immediate thoughts. Just saying... :)
Harry33 said: Ranch Hand,
I feel sorry to see an experienced member being treated like this. This should be an open discussion forum where people are free to express their views. There is enough space for that in this forum, I think. It is of utmost importance to hear the words from unsatisfied members too. In the long run, it does not help so much, if we only accept "yes" opinions.
It would be better if we would accept opinions without being offended so easily.
I have agreed with Ranch Hand's ideas before, but this time I think he was trolling a bit :)
I guess the main issue is the misunderstanding (misinterpretation) of the phrase "Ubuntu Power User"
Jono's idea (as far as I understand) of Ubuntu Power User is about a user who uses STANDARD Ubuntu in a power user way. Getting things done way. Office work load kind of way. Computer simulations running on several clusters way.
I understand that there are people who think Unity is not up to that kind of thing and that is fine. There are several DMs around that you can use. This group should concentrate on how Unity could be harnessed into those tasks.
That is how I see it. There are several Unity hate threads where pointless criticism can be dumped. The truth is that Unity is here to stay (at least for a while) so why not try to make it better?
Biggest paradox on first glance of that mailing list: Hey we are doing something for power users, let’s reactivate a tool called "simple-ccsm!"
What are power users again? If you want to cater to power users, please try to not deprecate what works for them, like gnome-panel classic setups. Dunno what the latest fatwa on that is, but it would be a start.
hugmenot said: Biggest paradox on first glance of that mailing list: Hey we are doing something for power users, let’s reactivate a tool called "simple-ccsm!"
What are power users again? If you want to cater to power users, please try to not deprecate what works for them, like gnome-panel classic setups. Dunno what the latest fatwa on that is, but it would be a start.
Not to be critical, and I see your point, but from my perspective I believe that point of the article was to generate interest in growing the functionality, and advancing things on top of the Ubuntu/Compiz/Unity framework to accommodate the wishes of those that want more customisation beyond of what is offered by default right now.
There are the fallback modes, and other projects that offer the soon to be depreciated classic-panel setup. I do believe that this is more for those who want to move forward and help with offering means to build tools and add tweaks, maybe some of that would be added to the default release, but most likely much of it would be add-ons such as 3rd party and ppa offerings.
I see where you think there is a contradiction of terms but I the think the call was for those who want to help moving forward within the framework and vision of the Ubuntu/Unity project. There are those with skills and knowledge that like Unity and want to move forward with that, for others your energy could be better spent developing things toward your desires and visions... even within Ubuntu.
All this criticism and resistance to change just baffles me completely, I came to Linux for change and I welcome what is going on with Ubuntu. This is all about options folks, not limitations. Don't like Unity, Gnome shell? There are a multitude of options available.
The idea is to add to the Ubuntu/Unity project, not diminish from it. My two bits.
meborc said: I have agreed with Ranch Hand's ideas before, but this time I think he was trolling a bit :)
I guess the main issue is the misunderstanding (misinterpretation) of the phrase "Ubuntu Power User"
Jono's idea (as far as I understand) of Ubuntu Power User is about a user who uses STANDARD Ubuntu in a power user way. Getting things done way. Office work load kind of way. Computer simulations running on several clusters way.
I understand that there are people who think Unity is not up to that kind of thing and that is fine. There are several DMs around that you can use. This group should concentrate on how Unity could be harnessed into those tasks.
That is how I see it. There are several Unity hate threads where pointless criticism can be dumped. The truth is that Unity is here to stay (at least for a while) so why not try to make it better?
Well said. I'm not interested in going elsewhere; if I were, I'd have already left. I think Unity has potential. There are aspects of it I already like, and, goshdarnit, it sure looks slick. Frankly the GNOME panels felt like something from the past which, to be blunt, they are. I never saw that UI as sustainable and I never felt quite satisfied with it. Unity and GNOME Shell aren't quite there yet, but they're the future. And they're very much a work in progress. I want to have a hand in crafting that future. It's early enough that that is very much possible. That's what I think UPU is all about--to help Unity specifically and Ubuntu in general realize its true potential. Unity can be more than just a slick marketing gimmick; we can rework it so it does everything we need it to do. Right now it doesn't. Instead of bellyaching about it or badmouthing Canonical, I want to try to fix it while there's still time.
I know I have choices. I've chosen Ubuntu, and I want it to be the best it can be.
This thread is wandering off topic, please keep it on topic.
Has anyone found a way to hack the launcher/panel bars to other sides? I've put a couple of the simper hacks i'd been using into compizconfig but i havent made sense of moving the bars around.
Longer delay and dont hide launcher on app activation, little tweaks, the hiding thing was annoying [[IMG]http://s1.postimage.org/2mssa938/Screenshot.jpg[/IMG]]("http://postimage.org/image/2mssa938/")
But try to throw the launcher onto the right hand side instead and...well...oh deary deary me no :) [[IMG]http://s1.postimage.org/2mzefn2c/Screenshot_1.jpg[/IMG]]("http://postimage.org/image/2mzefn2c/")
Maybe butchering unity isnt part of power using but... [IMG]http://postimage.org/image/2mssa938/[/IMG]
.....I want power*control* over my desktop, but I am not sure I have the power to be called *poweruser*. (I am pretty sure I am not :P). In Ubuntu "old style" I was able to fool around with some terminal stuff I just copied from manuals, (without really understanding what I was doing), and editing setting-files from instructions from fora.
I hope this will work in the future as well!
Good story by the way.
OOOPS sorry, this should not be in this thread, I have too many windows open, accidentally answerd to a thread in another window can anyone remove this?
Jacobonbuntu said: .....I want power*control* over my desktop, but I am not sure I have the power to be called *poweruser*. (I am pretty sure I am not :P).[...]
OOOPS sorry, this should not be in this thread, I have too many windows open, accidentally answerd to a thread in another window can anyone remove this? Rather ironic, no?
We're having a discussion about power users, so called, but...
Power users can't delete their own messages, in these forums. LoL! :D
Okay, back on topic...
power users are the people the who've mastered the unity keyboard shortcuts
VinDSL said: Rather ironic, no?
We're having a discussion about power users, so called, but...
Power users can't delete their own messages, in these forums. LoL! :D
Okay, back on topic...
A power user should know, that to get a post deleted, all they have to do is report the post, and request it's removal. :) :)
A power user is an experienced user. That raises two question:
[*]Do only experienced users want to be able to configure their desktops?
I think "no" answers both of these questions, so why is it called "Ubuntu Power User" in the first place, when it really means "people that like to have more control over their desktops"?
- Do all experienced users want to be able to configure their desktops?
MacUntu said: A power user is an experienced user. That raises two question:
I think "no" answers both of these questions, so why is it called "Ubuntu Power User" in the first place, when it really means "people that like to have more control over their desktops"?
- Do only experienced users want to be able to configure their desktops?
- Do all experienced users want to be able to configure their desktops?
I totally agree (although I don't belong here :P). For example: I want my NAS to mount as a local directory in /media, to be able to browse it with the *file browser applet*. So I found a manual on the internet to do the job, and I can perform it. To *me*, as a non power user, it feels kind of "sporty" to get it done by editing the fstab en .cifscredentials file etc, but the *average *non-poweruser will give in I guess.
I think a pretty simple definition of a power user is anybody whose desire to experiment/tweak outweighs their fear of breaking their machine. In other words, somebody who expends effort to make their rig do a certain thing, even if there's a chance the whole thing could blow up in their face (e.g. making a mistake in /etc/fstab).
I also think there's an additional quantity, and that is that this experimentation/tweaking isn't just done "for the heck of it" but is actually exercised toward a goal (i.e. to get more work done or else achieve a specific behavior). I've always said that your enjoyment of any DE or OS will be inversely proportional to the level of your expectations. Power users are the people who are willing to get their hands dirty trying to raise the bar of the experience to meet their expectations.
This is the definition of a power user from the PowerUsers wiki:
Who is a Power User?
A Power User is someone who likes to tweak the user interface, is not afraid of changing the default settings or install useful extensions. But a Power User doesn't necessary need to know how to code or compile a package from source code. A Power User is just a user... with power.
Also if you haven't joined the mailing list, you can do it here
One bit of good news, is that Ubuntu Tweak will be in the repositories, no need to use a ppa to install it.
....I like this forum :P
Glad to finally see a power user community come together, and things are looking bright. Also, you can say its a win that Ubuntu has gone far enough into 'regular' computer users that a power user community would even make sense.
Not only has the community so far been positive, but they're already working to be building upon what already exists and bringing more talented people in. Bravo, bravo. This might actually work. I'm excited.
I like that Ubuntu Tweak has been suggested as a base. Rather than reinvent the wheel, we definitely should be looking at projects like these. I discovered UT before the UPU idea started up and was thoroughly impressed. Making the project extensible will go a long way toward ensuring it sticks around for the long haul, and I'm glad that the developer is on board with us. He has some great ideas for the next version, and now he'll also have the support of UPU.
anybody still remember the good old automatix days? seems weird that at that time it was considered harmful for your system and now we embrace similar tools...
i love UT... just i never understood why the community rejected automatix :D
EDIT: did some digging and realised that automatix only did software installs... somehow I remembered it doing much more than that :) must be getting old
Automatix was deemed too hacky to support it back then:
I don't consider myself a "power user" and I can't stand Unity! First of all, I, like the majority of people are right handed, I don't want to have to chase over to the left side of the screen to launch an app. I just place lauchers on the right side of the lower bar, no problem! Second, I haven't used any version of Linux since the early 2000s, yet I have no problem using the "Classic Desktop" in 11.04. If they are intent on a "dumbed down" version make it a separate distro. Of course, if you look at Gnome 3 you'll see the same BS and they seem to be going their own way and ignoring the users completely. Anyway, I will not be upgrading from here. I can see 11.04 becoming Win XP in that few will want to upgrade and loose the "Classic Desktop" and the customizabilty they still have!
athenroy said: I don't consider myself a "power user" and I can't stand Unity! First of all, I, like the majority of people are right handed, I don't want to have to chase over to the left side of the screen to launch an app. I just place lauchers on the right side of the lower bar, no problem! Second, I haven't used any version of Linux since the early 2000s, yet I have no problem using the "Classic Desktop" in 11.04. If they are intent on a "dumbed down" version make it a separate distro. Of course, if you look at Gnome 3 you'll see the same BS and they seem to be going their own way and ignoring the users completely. Anyway, I will not be upgrading from here. I can see 11.04 becoming Win XP in that few will want to upgrade and loose the "Classic Desktop" and the customizabilty they still have!Want to come try Kubuntu? We have cookies and milk.
teh603 said: Want to come try Kubuntu? We have cookies and milk.
Then Ubuntu Unity has Coke and Skittles! LOL
CreativeReach said: Then Ubuntu Unity has Coke and Skittles! LOLI would have said Kool-aid.
:lolflag:
and gnome-shell is champagne and caviar ;-) ;-)
Lubuntu has pasta with a really great red sauce!
bmbaker said: and gnome-shell is champagne and caviar ;-) ;-)
Sounds tempting ;-);-)