Archived thread 1860086 from Ubuntu +1 (Precise Pangolin)(Closed). Markdown source: Ubuntu_+1_(Precise_Pangolin)(Closed)/thread_1860086_Grub_Legacy_vs_Grub2.md
Where do you stand? I don't use many distros, but as far as I know only Ubuntu and derivatives use Grub2?
Grub2 focus seems to be on non-essential features. If you look at their development, you see plans for embedded video player (!?), OpenGL animations, animated images, sound, etc.
Grub Legacy seems to be talking about enhancing code speed, portability, develop support for wireless keyboards, better pata/sata drivers, etc.
I much prefer gurb I don't give a flip about fancy graphics etc during boot and it was much easier ( and lasting ) to "adjust" menu.list as opposed to grub.cfg , I run a multi boot multi distro multi version test box and grub.cfg is a pain in the sit upon .
I use Fedora, openSUSE, Bodhi and LMDE in addition to buntu flavors, all multiboot. Fedora has switched to Grub2 and for me that leaves maybe openSUSE (haven't checked it lately) not on Grub2. Everyone else that I use is grub2 and that is what I'll focus on. Neither one is really designed for multi boot vs dual boot. The buntu distros at least run grub-update when upgrading the kernel and take care of the symlinks.
Grub Legacy seems to be talking about enhancing code speed, portability, develop support for wireless keyboards, better pata/sata drivers, etc.
The problem I see in trying to use GRUB Legacy long term is:
GRUB Legacy is not actively developed any longer. Only bugfixes will be made so that GRUB Legacy can stil be used for older systems.
From: http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub-legacy.en.html
While still a viable option for now, not a permanent or long term solution. There will not be any new features or enhancements.
Debian uses grub-pc (grub2).
As a long time lover of grub I prefer grub-pc.
The script based system is more flexible and capable of dealing with the fast changes in file systems and bootable media.
It does take some getting used to and would work better for folks if they would use the built in abilities to customize grub-pc to their box once it is installed. Most of the scripts used to create your first grub.cfg are totally un-needed after that.
They are needed at first to make sure that all computers will be served functional and all OS' will be detected. Very few, if any computers need all of that. You can easily speed up your menu loading and the time it takes update-grub to run by simply disabling the scripts that are not needed.
The use of custom menus will speed things up greatly but few folks use them. This is why there is a 40_custom script in there in the first place. Yes I know, there he goes again. I do use, and have used since the introduction of this grub-pc in 9.10 testing.
Grub-pc gives me a menu that I never have to mess with at all. If I change a Debian based install to some other Debian based install, keeping the grub I normally use on the MBR, I don't even need to change the menu for the new install. I would have to if I changed to a RH branch OS on a previously Debian branch OS partition.
I had a very limited use of grub legacy and whilst I appreciate that menu.lst could just be edited I definitely agree with ranch hand. What can be easier than running update-grub? It does everything for you, as I see it. It finds all known OSes, it seems, you can boot isofiles direct from the grub menu by making use of the /etc/grub.d/40_custom file (together with any custom menu entries you prefer). I think grub2 is great :-)
effenberg0x0 said: Where do you stand? I don't use many distros, but as far as I know only Ubuntu and derivatives use Grub2?
Grub2 focus seems to be on non-essential features. If you look at their development, you see plans for embedded video player (!?), OpenGL animations, animated images, sound, etc.
Grub Legacy seems to be talking about enhancing code speed, portability, develop support for wireless keyboards, better pata/sata drivers, etc.
It seems like the just-released Fedora 16 Beta is the first rpm-based distro to move to grub2.
sgage said: It seems like the just-released Fedora 16 Beta is the first rpm-based distro to move to grub2.
I didnt know that, I was under a wrong impression that (n)Ubuntu and Ubuntu-based were grub2 while mostly all others (relevant ones) were all still grub. From the info you guys gave me above, specially the fact that, as it seems, grub-legacy development is stopped, grub2 is the only viable option now.
I'm not gonna ask you about lilo :)
Thanks guys
Effenberg
Yup, stuff keeps changing. Grub-pc has been in development by the grub folks for some time because grub was just getting to be made of patches.
I have never used lilo but know people that do. Have read up on it. Sounds like it is still the answer to some very rare but serious problems. Not mentioning its ability to boot MS which I have no desire to do. Versatile boot loader.
There was a very popular local distro here, which was bought by Mandrake Linux and later disappeared. This is like 1999, 2000. It had lilo. People used to freak out with it. It was far from easy and reliable (at least back then).
Still using Mepis here to boot all my other distros, and Mepis still has grub-legacy. I figure I'll have to learn to multi-boot with grub2 eventually, but for now I'm sticking with the "tried and true."
effenberg0x0 said: There was a very popular local distro here, which was bought by Mandrake Linux and later disappeared. This is like 1999, 2000. It had lilo. People used to freak out with it. It was far from easy and reliable (at least back then).
Really, I thought Conectiva bought Mandrake when they were broke due to the copyright fight with the cartoon, created Mandriva that way.
Not that I was paying a lot of attention to it at the time. Just got that stuck in my head.
I thought no one ever heard of Conectiva outside Brazil lol... Well, the story here is that Mandrake bought them in 98 along with many regional distros in other countries and broke all of them with the whole mandriva thing a while later. Conectiva was hell. Lots of people and companies used it here back in 98-2000. Looking online I found screenshots of the WindowMaker desktop. Don't miss it at all.
I used LILO and wmaker when I first started using Debian back in 2002-2003, I never really liked LILO, and was very happy the first time I installed Ubuntu, and didn't have to deal with it. Windowmaker was great at the time, it's just unfortunate it was never developed any further.
Cariboo => Look here : http://repo.or.cz/w/wmaker-crm.git Some guys are still pushing a fork of it.
effenberg0x0 said: Cariboo => Look here : http://repo.or.cz/w/wmaker-crm.git
Some guys are still pushing a fork of it.
Thanks for that, I'll have to wait and see what comes out of this new development. :)
I love grub2... os-prober is so much more awesome compared to editing menu.lst!
If only I could get rid of my grub2 bug of having multiple entries for the same distro (with a single kernel installed!):
manzdagratiano, what does your /etc/grub.d folder contain?
Sabayon uses grub-pc (grub2)and Gentoo also.
Grub 2 busted big time on fresh install of Oneiric Ocelot release image. For whatever reason Install Ubiquity got an error configuring Apt. By that time install was well under way, I found out later the image would boot though incomplete.
This was on a multi-boot. After the "Apt error" it would only boot to Grub rescue> at which point only a few of the Grub rescue connands would work, example the command "linux" would not leaving me stranded.
Eventually located Ubuntu Wiki Community Support on Grub 2 and followed the commands to use a bootable CD - I used Lucid Lynx 10.04.3. Successfully able to install grub 2 with the directions there.
Install should certainly put in a usable Grub2 with full rescue commands just as soon as it formats the target partition.
Yes there is a launchpad bug #.
No I don't expect any developer action.
Jerry
jerry do what I do , if you have multi-boot and more than one drive have a different install write its grub to the other drive and that way you can switch boot order in bios to get to a working install.
edit: also super grub disk can come in handy incase of a grub failure .
jerrylamos said: Grub 2 busted big time on fresh install of Oneiric Ocelot release image. For whatever reason Install Ubiquity got an error configuring Apt. By that time install was well under way, I found out later the image would boot though incomplete.
This was on a multi-boot. After the "Apt error" it would only boot to Grub rescue> at which point only a few of the Grub rescue connands would work, example the command "linux" would not leaving me stranded.
Eventually located Ubuntu Wiki Community Support on Grub 2 and followed the commands to use a bootable CD - I used Lucid Lynx 10.04.3. Successfully able to install grub 2 with the directions there.
Install should certainly put in a usable Grub2 with full rescue commands just as soon as it formats the target partition.
Yes there is a launchpad bug #.
No I don't expect any developer action.
Jerry
I'm not sure that your experience was universal.
Arch normally uses all the most recent, but stable packages. But yet, the default bootloader in Arch is still Grub legacy.
Also note that the version number of Grub2 is still 1.99
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GRUB2 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GRUB
sanderd17 said: Arch normally uses all the most recent, but stable packages. But yet, the default bootloader in Arch is still Grub legacy.
Also note that the version number of Grub2 is still 1.99
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GRUB2 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GRUB
And the version number for Grub Legacy is 0.97 (last updated upstream in January 2010), with 7 patches vs 1 for Grub2 in their respective PKGBUILDs.
Quackers said: manzdagratiano, what does your /etc/grub.d folder contain?
Erm... apologies for the late reply... Here's what's in my /etc/grub.d:
manjul@chaar:~$ ls /etc/grub.d/
00_header 10_linux 20_memtest86+ 40_custom README
05_debian_theme 20_linux_xen 30_os-prober 41_custom
manjul@chaar:~$ cat /etc/grub.d/41_custom
#!/bin/sh
cat <<EOF
if [ -f \$prefix/custom.cfg ]; then
source \$prefix/custom.cfg;
fi
EOF
manjul@chaar:~$ cat /etc/grub.d/40_custom
#!/bin/sh
exec tail -n +3 $0
# This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries. Simply type the
# menu entries you want to add after this comment. Be careful not to change
# the 'exec tail' line above.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/758887
indicate, the respective multiple entries are not artifacts of leftover kernels... in fact, I am very very religious about removing old kernels after every upgrade. For example, here's my grub.cfg:
manjul@chaar:~$ cat /boot/grub/grub.cfg
#
# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE
#
# It is automatically generated by grub-mkconfig using templates
# from /etc/grub.d and settings from /etc/default/grub
#
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/00_header ###
if [ -s $prefix/grubenv ]; then
set have_grubenv=true
load_env
fi
set default="0"
if [ "${prev_saved_entry}" ]; then
set saved_entry="${prev_saved_entry}"
save_env saved_entry
set prev_saved_entry=
save_env prev_saved_entry
set boot_once=true
fi
function savedefault {
if [ -z "${boot_once}" ]; then
saved_entry="${chosen}"
save_env saved_entry
fi
}
function recordfail {
set recordfail=1
if [ -n "${have_grubenv}" ]; then if [ -z "${boot_once}" ]; then save_env recordfail; fi; fi
}
function load_video {
insmod vbe
insmod vga
insmod video_bochs
insmod video_cirrus
}
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos3)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 9904cf51-bb50-4343-a112-dbc2056bac3c
if loadfont /usr/share/grub/unicode.pf2 ; then
set gfxmode=auto
load_video
insmod gfxterm
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos2)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 089f196f-2f3c-4615-aff4-8babd1e6a29f
set locale_dir=($root)/grub/locale
set lang=en_US
insmod gettext
fi
terminal_output gfxterm
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos3)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 9904cf51-bb50-4343-a112-dbc2056bac3c
insmod tga
background_image -m stretch /usr/share/images/grub/Windbuchencom.tga
if [ "${recordfail}" = 1 ]; then
set timeout=-1
else
set timeout=10
fi
### END /etc/grub.d/00_header ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ###
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos3)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 9904cf51-bb50-4343-a112-dbc2056bac3c
insmod tga
if background_image /usr/share/images/grub/Windbuchencom.tga; then
true
else
set menu_color_normal=white/black
set menu_color_highlight=black/light-gray
if background_color 44,0,30; then
clear
fi
fi
### END /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/10_linux ###
if [ ${recordfail} != 1 ]; then
if [ -e ${prefix}/gfxblacklist.txt ]; then
if hwmatch ${prefix}/gfxblacklist.txt 3; then
if [ ${match} = 0 ]; then
set linux_gfx_mode=keep
else
set linux_gfx_mode=text
fi
else
set linux_gfx_mode=text
fi
else
set linux_gfx_mode=keep
fi
else
set linux_gfx_mode=text
fi
export linux_gfx_mode
if [ "$linux_gfx_mode" != "text" ]; then load_video; fi
menuentry 'Ubuntu, with Linux 3.0.0-12-generic' --class ubuntu --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
recordfail
set gfxpayload=$linux_gfx_mode
insmod gzio
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos2)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 089f196f-2f3c-4615-aff4-8babd1e6a29f
linux /vmlinuz-3.0.0-12-generic root=UUID=9904cf51-bb50-4343-a112-dbc2056bac3c ro quiet splash vt.handoff=7
initrd /initrd.img-3.0.0-12-generic
}
menuentry 'Ubuntu, with Linux 3.0.0-12-generic (recovery mode)' --class ubuntu --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
recordfail
insmod gzio
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos2)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 089f196f-2f3c-4615-aff4-8babd1e6a29f
echo 'Loading Linux 3.0.0-12-generic ...'
linux /vmlinuz-3.0.0-12-generic root=UUID=9904cf51-bb50-4343-a112-dbc2056bac3c ro recovery nomodeset
echo 'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
initrd /initrd.img-3.0.0-12-generic
}
### END /etc/grub.d/10_linux ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/20_linux_xen ###
### END /etc/grub.d/20_linux_xen ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+ ###
menuentry "Memory test (memtest86+)" {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos2)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 089f196f-2f3c-4615-aff4-8babd1e6a29f
linux16 /memtest86+.bin
}
menuentry "Memory test (memtest86+, serial console 115200)" {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos2)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 089f196f-2f3c-4615-aff4-8babd1e6a29f
linux16 /memtest86+.bin console=ttyS0,115200n8
}
### END /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+ ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ###
menuentry "Arch Linux (on /dev/sda4)" --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos4)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 9dc8bfcc-97ed-440f-876f-4fbca4d8079c
linux /boot/vmlinuz26 root=/dev/sda4
initrd /boot/kernel26.img
}
menuentry "Arch Linux (on /dev/sda4)" --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos4)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 9dc8bfcc-97ed-440f-876f-4fbca4d8079c
linux /boot/vmlinuz-linux root=/dev/sda4
initrd /boot/initramfs-linux.img
}
menuentry "Debian GNU/Linux (wheezy/sid) (on /dev/sda7)" --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos7)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 04608121-4401-49e7-9e31-40b22377ba00
linux /vmlinuz root=/dev/sda7
initrd /initrd.img
}
menuentry "Debian GNU/Linux (wheezy/sid) (on /dev/sda7)" --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos7)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 04608121-4401-49e7-9e31-40b22377ba00
linux /vmlinuz root=/dev/sda7
initrd /initrd.img
}
menuentry "Debian GNU/Linux (wheezy/sid) (on /dev/sda7)" --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos7)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 04608121-4401-49e7-9e31-40b22377ba00
linux /boot/vmlinuz-3.0.0-2-amd64 root=/dev/sda7
initrd /boot/initrd.img-3.0.0-2-amd64
}
menuentry "Debian GNU/Linux (wheezy/sid) (on /dev/sda7)" --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos7)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 04608121-4401-49e7-9e31-40b22377ba00
linux /vmlinuz root=/dev/sda7
initrd /initrd.img
}
menuentry "Debian GNU/Linux (wheezy/sid) (on /dev/sda7)" --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos7)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 04608121-4401-49e7-9e31-40b22377ba00
linux /vmlinuz root=/dev/sda7
initrd /initrd.img
}
menuentry "Slackware Linux (Slackware 13.37.0) (on /dev/sda8)" --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos8)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 9badb81d-44aa-452e-b1be-301e459898f9
linux /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda8
initrd /boot/initrd.gz
}
menuentry "Slackware Linux (Slackware 13.37.0) (on /dev/sda8)" --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos8)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 9badb81d-44aa-452e-b1be-301e459898f9
linux /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda8
initrd /boot/initrd.gz
}
menuentry "Slackware Linux (Slackware 13.37.0) (on /dev/sda8)" --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos8)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 9badb81d-44aa-452e-b1be-301e459898f9
linux /boot/vmlinuz-generic-2.6.38.7 root=/dev/sda8
}
menuentry "Slackware Linux (Slackware 13.37.0) (on /dev/sda8)" --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos8)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 9badb81d-44aa-452e-b1be-301e459898f9
linux /boot/vmlinuz-huge-2.6.38.7 root=/dev/sda8
}
menuentry "Gentoo Base System release 2.0.3 (on /dev/sda9)" --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,msdos9)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root f78cc2a6-2ff1-4d06-a523-e24039710306
linux /boot/kernel-2.6.39-gentoo-r3 root=/dev/sda9
}
### END /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/40_custom ###
# This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries. Simply type the
# menu entries you want to add after this comment. Be careful not to change
# the 'exec tail' line above.
### END /etc/grub.d/40_custom ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/41_custom ###
if [ -f $prefix/custom.cfg ]; then
source $prefix/custom.cfg;
fi
### END /etc/grub.d/41_custom ###
manjul@chaar:~$ sudo mount /dev/sda7 /mnt
[sudo] password for manjul:
manjul@chaar:~$ ls /mnt/boot/
config-3.0.0-2-amd64 System.map-3.0.0-2-amd64
initrd.img-3.0.0-2-amd64 vmlinuz-3.0.0-2-amd64
manjul@chaar:~$
Edit: Oh yeah - and the entries in the root of /dev/sda7 are just symlinks:
manjul@chaar:~$ ls -al /mnt/vmlinuz
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 26 2011-10-18 22:22 /mnt/vmlinuz -> boot/vmlinuz-3.0.0-2-amd64
manjul@chaar:~$ ls -al /mnt/initrd.img
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 30 2011-10-18 22:22 /mnt/initrd.img -> /boot/initrd.img-3.0.0-2-amd64
However, despite this, I love grub2 - I think os-prober is SO much better than having to edit menu.lst. When I installed Arch on my fianceé's laptop, I had some trouble setting grub up to detect the Winblows (oh how I would love to wipe it off! But she needs it for some proprietary Dental school stuff) - grub2 and problem solved!