How do the mods feel about a "fallback-session" Mega-Thread?

Before even beginning such a thing I thought I'd ask ;)

It appears that I really need to pursue the Gnome fall-back session for a number of reasons, but before even beginning such a thing here I thought it wise to ask permission :D

I'd certainly begin the thread with a brief warning about "bashing" either Unity or gnome-shell so we don't have it turn into another "flame war" causing it to be removed.

My thought is that those desiring a "classic" look can share different things they've tried ....... what's failed ...... what's succeeded ...... etc.

Comments :confused:

If the mods approve it what do you think an appropriate name would be?

I rather dislike "fallback" for future searching purposes. What would be appropriate?

BTW I also dislike using "gnome3" in the title of a thread, it just lacks grace. I'm thinking something along the lines of:

Precise Pangolin Classic DE Mega-Thread

But that sounds sloppy :(

Help me.

Just BTW about two hours of sloppily playing around got me to one panel w/clearlooks, not so far from "classic":

[ATTACH]205612[/ATTACH]

And I figured out the "screen blanking" problem for my machine, so I really think I'm close ................ well I hope I'm close :D

But far from prefect so I'm thinking one place to look for classic DE tweaks could be helpful.

i vote for "gnome-classic" thread name, like we find it when logging

There is this a the moment.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1859961

I'd suggest calling it Gnome Classic as dino99 says, as that's the way it's listed in the lightdm menu. I have no objections to a mega thread, although as you say, it would be worthwhile to put in a disclaimer in the first post that any unity or gnome-shell bashing posts will be removed.

I vote for GNOME Classic too. I say we collect suggestions and create a poll

I'm not sure this should be held here at Ubuntu+1. We know the options PP will ship with for DE.

People that need a lighter desktop, whatever option they choose (gnome, lxde, xfce, etc) and for whatever reason, are at the General Help section right now, for sure. They are the ones that, right now, need to learn the options they have to overcome hardware limitations or fulfill their personal expectations and preferences better. It is not something that related to U+1, but to Ubuntu current.[B] Installing any of these options is in no way different on PP or Ubuntu current. [/B] Bringing all the Unity haters together inside U+1 will make it very difficult for us to actually discuss PP default DE issues, and other subjects that refer to PP only. It will also stimulate more newbies to attempt a suicidal update to pre-alpha/alpha PP, turning this section into the "fix my ****" one and, again, deviating from the serious testing purposes. It's too soon for standard users/hax0rs to realize they can update to PP.

And I'm confused as to the fallback term too. For me, a fallback refer to making udev-fallback-graphics work properly and load the default non-accelerated desktop (ubuntu-2d session) when everything else fails. A DE choice is not a system fallback but a user preference that fits loosely, if at all, with supporting current Ubuntu strategy.

Just my two cents.

Regards, Effenberg

EDIT PS: And worse, the term fallback imply auto-recovering from fail. I definitely don't feel good about people considering current Ubuntu default DEs as fails.

viperdvman said: I vote for GNOME Classic too. I say we collect suggestions and create a poll

You're welcome to start a poll in the Cafe, as they've been disabled in the rest of the forum.

cariboo907 said: You're welcome to start a poll in the Cafe, as they've been disabled in the rest of the forum.

I'm glad for that, I personally find polls almost useless.

In this particular instance only one "poll" matters to me and that's how the 35 to 40+ seniors I maintain Ubuntu for like it, and how easily I'll be able to maintain that number of installations :D

LTS releases have given me a great comfort zone since I began this, so whatever option I choose must be LTS. Sadly that rules out Lubuntu for now :(

But I'm finding that I can get very close to the true "classic" Gnome DE by applying a few tweaks, installing or removing certain packages, and a bit more tweaking.

But I'm hardly "home free" with my approach so far. I need to try many different combinations and also be able to say for certain if following a certain procedure will (or will not) break the standard Unity session ................ and I've already played a bit with using the gnome-shell session and using Gnomes "fallback" mode ....... the outcome is quite different.

Regardless I'm busy ATM with non-puter issues, but the responses here give me some idea what others are thinking. Shortly after reviewing the road-map from UDS I'll decide exactly how to start a thread here, and I definitely will include a warning that DE bashing will NOT be allowed ;)

effenberg0x0 said: I'm not sure this should be held here at Ubuntu+1. We know the options PP will ship with for DE.

People that need a lighter desktop, whatever option they choose (gnome, lxde, xfce, etc) and for whatever reason, are at the General Help section right now, for sure. They are the ones that, right now, need to learn the options they have to overcome hardware limitations or fulfill their personal expectations and preferences better. It is not something that related to U+1, but to Ubuntu current.[B] Installing any of these options is in no way different on PP or Ubuntu current. [/B] Bringing all the Unity haters together inside U+1 will make it very difficult for us to actually discuss PP default DE issues, and other subjects that refer to PP only. It will also stimulate more newbies to attempt a suicidal update to pre-alpha/alpha PP, turning this section into the "fix my ****" one and, again, deviating from the serious testing purposes. It's too soon for standard users/hax0rs to realize they can update to PP.

And I'm confused as to the fallback term too. For me, a fallback refer to making udev-fallback-graphics work properly and load the default non-accelerated desktop (ubuntu-2d session) when everything else fails. A DE choice is not a system fallback but a user preference that fits loosely, if at all, with supporting current Ubuntu strategy.

Just my two cents.

Regards, Effenberg

EDIT PS: And worse, the term fallback imply auto-recovering from fail. I definitely don't feel good about people considering current Ubuntu default DEs as fails.

I particularly wanted to address the "Unity Haters" comment. I started an Lubuntu thread in OO, not intending it to be a mega-thread although it did kind of become that, but I think I did a fairly good job of quelling any unrest.

Although I found myself once even joining the "bash-wagon" against gnome-shell because I'm human, but I think I quickly fixed that without hurting anyones feelings.

My thought is that many people want to get back to a classic Gnome DE, Clem at Mint has even been playing with the idea of presenting both a gnome2 and gnome3 version .............. but I honestly think we're very, very close to being able to make gnome3 do almost everything gnome2 could do if that's what a user wants.

And we'd be using the latest possible packages in this LTS, no outdated gnome2 packages :guitar:

Then if we find something that we can't get working we, as a group, can try to find a way to fix it (or work around it) :D

BTW I no longer "hate" Unity. I find unity-2D to work quite well on my 18.5" widescreen, but I prefer Lubuntu on my 22" widescreen. One size does not fit all :lolflag:

I'm in I want workspaces that are distinct I don't care about much beyond that I want all the tweaks to be gui based

kansasnoob said: I particularly wanted to address the "Unity Haters" comment. I started an Lubuntu thread in OO, not intending it to be a mega-thread although it did kind of become that, but I think I did a fairly good job of quelling any unrest.

Although I found myself once even joining the "bash-wagon" against gnome-shell because I'm human, but I think I quickly fixed that without hurting anyones feelings.

My thought is that many people want to get back to a classic Gnome DE, Clem at Mint has even been playing with the idea of presenting both a gnome2 and gnome3 version .............. but I honestly think we're very, very close to being able to make gnome3 do almost everything gnome2 could do if that's what a user wants.

And we'd be using the latest possible packages in this LTS, no outdated gnome2 packages :guitar:

Then if we find something that we can't get working we, as a group, can try to find a way to fix it (or work around it) :D

BTW I no longer "hate" Unity. I find unity-2D to work quite well on my 18.5" widescreen, but I prefer Lubuntu on my 22" widescreen. One size does not fit all :lolflag:

Oh, not talking about you at all, but about all the haters we have on general help, eventually here and at just about any Ubuntu forum I participate. It's inevitable and tiring. People are not willing to try Unity or Gnome-Shell. And they constantly threat me to move to Mint lol... I couldn't care less... And the "(n)Ubuntu is the new wonder / Ubuntu will die" thing gets on my nerves coming from people that can't even install this OSs. Last month was very boring, having to hear all kinds of uninstructed unskilled people try to convince me that Unity/Gnome-Shell sucks, with very poor arguments.

I like Ubuntu, it took me a while to understand their new strategy and, now that I do, I endorse it. It will be good for the distro, it will allow for new users to use a PC better.

And from a developer point of view, it makes me sick when people say that this or that sucks about Unity "performance". Man, people that can't write hello_world.c criticizing code quality...

So, personally, I avoid even reading such discussions to not enlarge my ulcers. But that's just me. Other more balanced and mature people will deal with it better.

I just don't see the point of having it here in U+1, while the people that need a lighter DE are right now at general help. Creating such a thread there will quickly promote great popularity. And I don't see how not using the default DEs can relate to testing PP (default DEs).

But, that's just my opinion, which shouldn't in any way influence what you do or not :) I'm not a mod, member, or any other thing here (far from that actually: I usually am not appreciated by the official-something and non-official people) :) Go for it :)

@effenberg0x0, I put a disclaimer in my Install/Upgrade experience thread in the Cafe, and it's stopped the Unity/Gnome-shell haters so far, we can do the same in kansasnoob's

The warning looks like this:

Any off topic posts, and answers to the off topic posts will be jailed, there will be no warnings

People that write complaint posts want others to see them, threatening to remove them without warning, defeats their purpose.

gnome classic, got my vote

cariboo907 said: @effenberg0x0, I put a disclaimer in my Install/Upgrade experience thread in the Cafe, and it's stopped the Unity/Gnome-shell haters so far, we can do the same in kansasnoob's

The warning looks like this:

People that write complaint posts want others to see them, threatening to remove them without warning, defeats their purpose.

Great initiative Cariboo907, I understand your strategy and it is probably effective to a good degree. You see, it's not that I think that people don't have the right to say whatever they want, like or hate Unity, etc, it's just that the arguments are generally plain silly. Things get into flame wars quickly. I just respect this OS too much I guess...

Yet, I really don't see how teaching users to not learn and enjoy the new interfaces and Des, Unity, etc can be aligned with supporting Ubuntu. And I do fail to see the link between changing Ubuntu DEs and testing PP as it is supposed to be tested (the way it is developed to be used, making use the now standard DEs).

But that's just my opinion, who am I to interfere in other people activities anyway :)

My feeling is, that if it is in the repositories, it should be tested.

I'm starting to see more positive posts and thank yous. I am still puzzled by the "unity is full of bugs, like when I open a window, the launcher disappears."

PaulInBHC said: I'm starting to see more positive posts and thank yous. I am still puzzled by the "unity is full of bugs, like when I open a window, the launcher disappears."

I participate in some other forums, specially ones in my country. My assessment is that a large portion of people never bothered to understand the PC they bought: As long as it was light and white, it was amazing. No one cared if it had a decent VGA, if it had enough ram, etc. It's good to not have to think. And, using previous versions of Ubuntu, that were capable of running in a ATARI 2600, they never had to anyway. It just worked.

I don't get it. People accept to think for like days, weeks, when they buy a TV or a car, or some clothes. But CPU, GPU and RAM demands reading 3 wikipedia articles. It's too much to ask.

And, for the people that eventually have a normal hardware, it actually is working OK.

It makes no sense to, in 2011, not make use of multicore CPU/GPU, hardware acceleration and more ram. The cheapest hardware one can get out there has two cpu cores, Intel GPU, etc. Ram is cheap, one can buy 16GB for nothing. Making use of today's hardware was postponed by Linux as much as possible. One would not be able to buy a PC next year that doesn't have a fairly decent GPU, a good amount of RAM and a multicore cpu. This product won't exist in the market anymore.

The problem we face right now are the people with trash hardware. In these cases, of course running a non-accelerated desktop provides a more fluid experience. But if they cut McDonalds for one day a week, they can pay the installments for a killer hardware.

When I hear the "oh, gnome was wonderful, (n)Ubuntu has always been my first choice, etc" estatements I wonder where those people were when those projects did needed this kind of PR... No one can honestly say to me that it is better to have a Volkswagen than a Ferrari, a Atari vs a PS3, etc. People bash Unity because they are just too cocky to post a thread saying "Ok, I'm a newbie, how do I make this work in my old hardware".

"unity is full of bugs, like when I open a window, the launcher disappears.Yea, I don't know man. I have proved in other forum that a groups of users were inventing stories and bugs just to bash Ubuntu and feel important. I simply asked for screenshots or photos taken with a mobile phone, anything, that would show what effects they were seeing in the desktop. No one managed to come up with one photo? People are weird and we gotta take care with that, not lose time with haters that are just inventing stuff to gather attention and create commotion......

PaulInBHC said: I'm starting to see more positive posts and thank yous. I am still puzzled by the "unity is full of bugs, like when I open a window, the launcher disappears."

That's not a bug, it's a feature. :) The launcher is set to dodge windows by default.

Yes, some of us know that...

[LEFT][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=Sienna][I]

It looks like you're searching for[/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=Sienna]* the launcher? Just move the *[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=Sienna]* mouse to the left corner of the*[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=Sienna]* screen. See, you don't have to *[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=Sienna]* threaten to move *[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=Sienna]*to Mint! *[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[ATTACH]205743[/ATTACH]

[/LEFT]

Garthhh said: I'm in I want workspaces that are distinct

I don't care about much beyond that I want all the tweaks to be gui based

I doubt that I'll be able to provide tweaks that don't include some "copy-n-paste" commands. It may be possible to get the developers of Ubuntu tweak to include some of the most wanted tweaks in their newest version though.

But ATM I just want users to be able to share what they've tried, what worked, what failed, etc. Hopefully we'll also be able to provide the methods needed to revert any changes we make so folks who want to try the classic DE can easily revert to Unity if they desire :)

That's one reason I wanted to begin this in U+1. I'd hope that anyone trying a development release understands that breakage may occur, possibly even requiring re-installation. That way when Precise goes final one of us should be able to write a fairly definitive (and hopefully easy-to-follow) how-to so people that really want the classic look and feel can get it w/o having to go distro-hopping.

Basically I've heeded the wise words of Jeremy Bicha, one good example:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11345032&postcount=42

I've been a bit of a hard sell because I've really just loved Gnome since I began using it in Ubuntu Gutsy, and change is sometimes hard, but as far as I can see ATM the fallback session is 90% there.

We just need to provide a few simple tweaks to get the other 10% manageable :D

effenberg0x0 said: Great initiative Cariboo907, I understand your strategy and it is probably effective to a good degree. You see, it's not that I think that people don't have the right to say whatever they want, like or hate Unity, etc, it's just that the arguments are generally plain silly. Things get into flame wars quickly. I just respect this OS too much I guess...

Yet, I really don't see how teaching users to not learn and enjoy the new interfaces and Des, Unity, etc can be aligned with supporting Ubuntu. And I do fail to see the link between changing Ubuntu DEs and testing PP as it is supposed to be tested (the way it is developed to be used, making use the now standard DEs).

But that's just my opinion, who am I to interfere in other people activities anyway :)

RE this:

Yet, I really don't see how teaching users to not learn and enjoy the new interfaces and Des, Unity, etc can be aligned with supporting Ubuntu. And I do fail to see the link between changing Ubuntu DEs and testing PP as it is supposed to be tested (the way it is developed to be used, making use the now standard DEs).

Quite simply some people are more resistant to change than others. You'll notice that I've mentioned Unity-2D working acceptably well for me with my 18.5" monitor, but It's quite simply a "neck-breaker" on my 22" widescreen due to my multi-focal lens glasses :)

The top "panel" (which incorporates many, many functions) is simply difficult to view. Also my "target audience" consists almost entirely of folks in their 70's, 80's, and beyond. They don't want to spend any time learning something vastly "new" or different, they mostly just want to sit down at the computer and have it function in a manner familiar to them ;)

Lubuntu was my plan #1, but I really need a full LTS version, so it's on to plan #2 :guitar:

Just tossing this over in my mind while doing some fall yard work ...... need to clean up the black walnuts so no trick-or-treaters fall and break their necks while venturing up to my door :lolflag:

I happened to think that my sole focus will be on "classic w/o effects" so I'm thinking of a title like:

My Gnome Classic (w/o effects) project

I certainly wouldn't complain if someone wanted to share their experience with getting Compiz to work as they wished in a classic session, but I've always chosen "no effects" when using gnome2 anyway. Compiz is kind of a waste on those of us who have limited vision.

I've tried obtaining a classic DE both by first installing 'gnome-shell' and alternatively installing 'gnome-session-fallback'. I'll most likely pursue the latter because it involves installing the least "unneeded" packages, and I'd assume that's what the devs had in mind or they wouldn't package it :)

I will include a disclaimer as cariboo907 suggested, I think along the lines of, "off-topic posts and/or arguments about which DE is better are discouraged and may be jailed by the mods w/o notice". My thought there is that if someone wants the classic Gnome DE (or gnome-panel) removed entirely as an alternative they can request such either through Canonical's devs or upstream with the Gnome devs.

I seriously doubt that will happen during the Precise dev cycle, but if it does I'll come up with a plan #3. I think a large enough segment of "gnome2-lovers" have complained that the 'gnome-panel' won't die any time soon. At the very worst I can run a fake obituary and move overnight before April 2013 ;)

Regardless I have quite a few non-puter projects to complete before UDS, but soon afterwards I should then be able to complete some hardware upgrades and jump into this head on.

Any and all comments welcome at this stage of the game.

some of us are not pleased with unity , not because of accesability difficulties nor aversion to change but just from preference . I myself find the "classic" gnome interface better suited to my particular use. I appluad kansasnoob's efforts because the alternative to providing a choice other than unity will ( and already has ) result in chasing some people away from Ubuntu which is an outcome I doubt anybody wants.

ronacc said: some of us are not pleased with unity , not because of accesability difficulties nor aversion to change but just from preference . I myself find the "classic" gnome interface better suited to my particular use. I appluad kansasnoob's efforts because the alternative to providing a choice other than unity will ( and already has ) result in chasing some people away from Ubuntu which is an outcome I doubt anybody wants.

Regarding the accessibility issue, things must be both accessible and attractive unless one has no choice. I'm legally blind, but far from stone blind, and what works for me is simple, just stark changes in color, etc.

Nothing like a picture:

[ATTACH]205813[/ATTACH]

Everything but the clock has such a stark difference between foreground and background that it's pretty easy to see, and even the clock is easy to see with a simple "mouse-over" :)

Familiarity is also a key issue for those who are either visually challenged or otherwise have trouble learning new things. And just wanting what you want is also fine.

I prefer one panel with a "tree" from which I can pick any app that I've not already stuck in that panel :D

effenberg0x0 said: ...I usually am not appreciated by the official-something and non-official people)

I can't even imagine that you are not appreciated. I've learned a LOT from many of your comments, and have been quite impressed with the patience you've shown during the Oneiric release.

I've vented my own complaints regarding Unity a time or two, but then moved on to figuring out how to make it work for me.

Anyway, those who help here (like you!) are very appreciated. Perhaps us users should remember to say that more often! :)

Oneiric minimal installation with gnome-fallback installed on top of it, no unity-2d/3d or gnome-shell installed.

It needs some refinements for both theme and panel layout.. anyway is already usable.

[[IMG]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1338581/varie/fallbacks.png[/IMG]]("http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1338581/varie/fallback.png")

When slickpanel will be mature enough i'll switch from gnome-panel to it because it ships also indicators instead of the old systray.

Jay Car said: I can't even imagine that you are not appreciated. I've learned a LOT from many of your comments, and have been quite impressed with the patience you've shown during the Oneiric release.

I've vented my own complaints regarding Unity a time or two, but then moved on to figuring out how to make it work for me.

Anyway, those who help here (like you!) are very appreciated. Perhaps us users should remember to say that more often! :)

Hey Jay, thanks for the kind words. There are some very dedicated people here at Ubuntu Forums, providing amazing support. It's a great community, that I truly believe users won't find in many other distros. But sometimes it gets complicated... It's weird but some official and non-official users feel more "entitled" to help. Generally they are technically good enough, but sometimes they don't know what they're talking about. When you provide correct help to users, express some technical argument, or you point out (as delicate as possible) that what they are advising makes no sense, sometimes you anger these people lol. And there are the official / non-official ***holes too lol. People are people, things get political, etc. It deviates from supporting Ubuntu and providing support and goes to personal egos.

But anyway, good to know you got your system up and going and are enjoying Ubuntu.

Regards, Effenberg

lucazade said: Oneiric minimal installation with gnome-fallback installed on top of it, no unity-2d/3d or gnome-shell installed.

It needs some refinements for both theme and panel layout.. anyway is already usable.

[[IMG]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1338581/varie/fallbacks.png[/IMG]]("http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1338581/varie/fallback.png")

When slickpanel will be mature enough i'll switch from gnome-panel to it because it ships also indicators instead of the old systray.

Hey Luca.

your desktop seems extremely clean... :) nice work!!

ciao.

tista said: Hey Luca.

your desktop seems extremely clean... :) nice work!!

ciao.

Thanks my friend.. at the moment it lives only inside a virtualmachine, as an hobby. I'll see if it will become my default desktop ;)

@Tista

need your help.. how can I change that damned symbolic icon for gnome-sound-applet? Is it hardcoded somewhere? I remember you was able to change it.

lucazade said: @Tista

need your help.. how can I change that damned symbolic icon for gnome-sound-applet? Is it hardcoded somewhere? I remember you was able to change it.

@Luca

hmm... so could you check your favorite icon's "index.theme"... if it has the link to "gnome" icons, maybe symbolic icons might be showed... Faenza and elementary icon theme actually had the link. Yeah today gnome icons goes such symbolic way.

I suppose it caused gnome icon theme... ;)

cheers.

lucazade said: Oneiric minimal installation with gnome-fallback installed on top of it, no unity-2d/3d or gnome-shell installed.

It needs some refinements for both theme and panel layout.. anyway is already usable.

[[IMG]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1338581/varie/fallbacks.png[/IMG]]("http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1338581/varie/fallback.png")

When slickpanel will be mature enough i'll switch from gnome-panel to it because it ships also indicators instead of the old systray.

I'd never even heard of SlickPanel before. This is exactly the kind of exchange I desire though :)

Something where we can share DE tweaks, and possibly come up with the "next big thing" :guitar:

effenberg0x0 said: Hey Jay, thanks for the kind words. There are some very dedicated people here at Ubuntu Forums, providing amazing support. It's a great community, that I truly believe users won't find in many other distros. But sometimes it gets complicated... It's weird but some official and non-official users feel more "entitled" to help. Generally they are technically good enough, but sometimes they don't know what they're talking about. When you provide correct help to users, express some technical argument, or you point out (as delicate as possible) that what they are advising makes no sense, sometimes you anger these people lol. And there are the official / non-official ***holes too lol. People are people, things get political, etc. It deviates from supporting Ubuntu and providing support and goes to personal egos.

But anyway, good to know you got your system up and going and are enjoying Ubuntu.

Regards, Effenberg

I'm a bit confused by these latest comments and possibly even offended. How do you differentiate between "official and non-official users" :confused:

Just what does it take to be "official"?

And, regarding ego, I'd hardly think it's egotistical to ask the mods how they feel about starting a thread before doing so.

I just didn't want to start a thread that might be controversial. I think a thread about how to tweak the fallback/panel session is reasonable and no way detracts from providing support to Ubuntu.

kansasnoob I think you read way too much into that post. He was replying to Jay. I think by official and non official he means something like moderators and staff vs the rest of us. I certainly didn't see anything that was pointed at you. Just generic comments about forums and people.

kansasnoob said: I'm a bit confused by these latest comments and possibly even offended. How do you differentiate between "official and non-official users" :confused:

Just what does it take to be "official"?

And, regarding ego, I'd hardly think it's egotistical to ask the mods how they feel about starting a thread before doing so.

I just didn't want to start a thread that might be controversial. I think a thread about how to tweak the fallback/panel session is reasonable and no way detracts from providing support to Ubuntu.

Wow, dude, calm down please. I really was just replying to JayCar, cause in fact I had some problems with users (official, non-official, we're all users, I don't care if some have a couple Ubuntu logos more in their signature lol, we are all people, that's what I was referring to), which is not new for me - the ego thing that happens at any forum. I was just commenting on that, nothing to do with you.

I have great respect for people that want to do something, people that care, and you clearly do! One of the problems I had with with some users (official, non-official, etc) is that they post any **** just to "look cool", bash the newbie, make jokes, move threads randomly, etc. You see zero contribution attempts in some people that pose as helpers. Then you report it and people say you might be banned for reporting it lol. But these are a few rotten individuals. As I keep saying, this forum has a great community with some extraordinary people that actually provide real help and contributions to Ubuntu, something that users don't find easily in other distros. That's the whole story, it's past.

Please don't be under the impression that I have anything against you, which is not true. I have expressed my opinions in some posts in this thread and that's it. Let's agree to disagree :) But please, by all means, take it further, put it into into a project, etc. This is FOSS, it's about options. I want all serious efforts to succeed. Ask for my help if you need anything that I can do. I really respect your effort.

kansasnoob said: I'd never even heard of SlickPanel before. This is exactly the kind of exchange I desire though :)

Something where we can share DE tweaks, and possibly come up with the "next big thing" :guitar:

Slickpanel is a new project, written in vala using part of 'wingpanel' and 'plank' code from elementary stuff, 'bamf' from unity and in gtk3. I really hope the author will finish it.. It is a perfect fit for my minimalistic setup ;)

Here is a screenshot of slickpanel in action.. at the moment is not completely skinned and fixed at top of the screen, anyway a configuration tool is expected soon.

[[IMG]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1338581/varie/slickpanels.png[/IMG]]("http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1338581/varie/slickpanel.png")

kansasnoob said: Quite simply some people are more resistant to change than others. You'll notice that I've mentioned Unity-2D working acceptably well for me with my 18.5" monitor, but It's quite simply a "neck-breaker" on my 22" widescreen due to my multi-focal lens glasses :)

The top "panel" (which incorporates many, many functions) is simply difficult to view. Also my "target audience" consists almost entirely of folks in their 70's, 80's, and beyond. They don't want to spend any time learning something vastly "new" or different, they mostly just want to sit down at the computer and have it function in a manner familiar to them ;) Lubuntu was my plan #1, but I really need a full LTS version, so it's on to plan #2 :guitar: I emphathize with you kansasnoob . I help some of that "same" target audience (2 senior centers). Recyclying computers and giving them a second life with Linux... for an audience that can afford something like that and can learn an interface. (No opinion given, no troubles)

I use both. I test both. (No opinion given, no troubles) But I also test other variations, other flavors and other OS'es... Without Opinion and being objective, Unity reminds me of a Mobile interface (Touchscreen Phone or Tablet) which I also test... (I've been doing stuff, testing and tweaking mobile devices for 7+ years now-- *no comment.*)

I think this is a very good idea. Before last cycle, I thought that it used to be that Ubuntu was the defacto default Disro > It was gnome and any other variation was change from that default. It wasn't called Gubuntu, being Gnome, Because it was the default Distro: *(About why Ubuntu was not called Gubuntu)*

doas777 said: the word 'ubuntu' has a meaning that the others lack. since gnome is the default, it is just ubuntu. all the others are just spinnoff distros, so they needed some way to tell them apart. that's all.-- And when it went away from that, I saw that logic fall apart. (No slight on Unity, just a change/difference).

After the change to Unity as the default desktop now, I thought that maybe there is now a need for a Gubuntu Distro with Gnome3 as it's installed default...

If a Gnome desktop never makes it back into Ubuntu as an installed choice, a parallel Distro featuring Gnome might be a external viable option. "New users" seem to a little leary of having to install and tweak their own without good guidance. Some of you got a taste of that trying to help users on I&U on the last release day... (That help was appreciated greatly!)

Maybe converting some of those tweaks to scripts as an alternative? Sort of "keep it simple." Sort of a new user proof factor/angle to it?

If you need help... I seem to be getting pretty good at writing directions and tutorials. The Offer is out there.

I had a discussion with kansasnoob, he has some real life things that need to be taken care of, so I will start the Megathread. My preference would be that before the end of the testing session, a wiki page be created with all the tips. hints and solutions that come up in the megathread.

Anyone can create a wiki page, all you have to do is create an account, or if you have a launchpad account, you just need to login

Hey Luca.

Now I'm re-think how to polish the gnome3-panel... ;) Today's shot was attached.

Exactly gnome-panel might be needed more and more polishes... :S

Ciao.

tista said: Hey Luca.

Now I'm re-think how to polish the gnome3-panel... ;) Today's shot was attached.

Exactly gnome-panel might be needed more and more polishes... :S

Ciao.

:) well your is already looking good but, yeah, gnome-panel needs a lot of love.. I've seen on lp:gnome-panel there is some work but i'm afraid that also for PP will not rock as it should. Hope there will be some sort of Papercut initiative for gnome-panel