Archived thread 2128173 from Ubuntu, Linux and OS Chat. Markdown source: Ubuntu,_Linux_and_OS_Chat/thread_2128173_Canonical_and_China.md
Just saw this on the BBC -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21895723
China is working with software firm Canonical on an open-source operating system customised for Chinese users.
The collaboration will produce a version of Canonical's Ubuntu operating system called Kylin which will be released in April.
I hope this becomes a trend!
Kylin has been around for a while, but the shift to an Ubuntu base is new. Pretty humungous client for Canonical though, I'll bet there were some high fives after closing that one.
Anyone want to test the daily ISO image for UbuntuKlylin Raring Ringtail? You will find it here
http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/243/builds/40313/testcases
Release 13.04 beta notes
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuKylin/1304-beta-1-ReleaseNote
Regards.
What do you mean by "stealing" in the context of free software?
Well... if the Chinese government really *did* decide to move the Chinese to Ubuntu, *that *would finally shakes things up. Maybe HP, Brother, ATI, NVIDIA, Adobe, yadda, yadda, yadda, would finally *deign* to produce some decent drivers and software for the Linux platform.
I'm all for it.
Expect Ballmer to squeal like a stuck pig. Wait for it... Wait for it...
Threads merged
synaptix said: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2128173
Right. It's one thing to produce an official Chinese Ubuntu distro (yawn). It's quite another when China describes it as, potentially, a national operating system. That's major.
China moving to Ubuntu just before Ubuntu moves into mobile? I think they see the writing on the wall and want to get "in" on the ground level.
I don't blame them for not wanting to rely on Windows or OS X. Look at the sabatoge and infection with the Iranian Nuclear Facility and that alone should make one want to "manage their own" instead.
What ever happened to Red Flag Linux? It was a Red Hat based Linux for China (and possibly co-developed with a couple other Asian countries).
Even if Ubuntu is not doing great in the USA, glad to hear they are making waves and getting raves outside the USA.
diesch said: What do you mean by "stealing" in the context of free software?
If they don't make it available downstream.
llanitedave said: If they don't make it available downstream.
Most free software licenses do not require this.
Violating the GPL doesn't seem to be specific to China. In the past several companies from Europe, the USA, Japan, Korea, ... did that, too. I tend to think that the USA with its patent law and crypto export restrictions is much more a problem for free software.
:P Good news Thank you
Jailed some posts - please stay within guidelines and CoC
VTPoet said: Well... if the Chinese government really *did* decide to move the Chinese to Ubuntu, *that *would finally shakes things up.
The Chinese government (which is hardly a single cohesive unit) has been dabbling with Linux for a while. There's been Red Flag Linux before this. About the best that you can hope for is that the government will switch some of it's own agencies over (which could in itself be millions of users). I doubt even China would be able to enforce what OS people and private businesses used. If they can't or won't stop folks running pirated Windows how will they make them switch to Linux?
It's still a positive move, because presumably there's a juicy contract in it for Canonical, which will go into paying more developers. But it's not like you're going to see a billion new Linux users.
Paqman said: I doubt even China would be able to enforce what OS people and private businesses used. If they can't or won't stop folks running pirated Windows how will they make them switch to Linux?
Let the ones who prefer Windows use Windows. I just want the hackers have to use their head more. I doubt that everyone of them excel at 3 or 4 OS at the same time.
diesch said: > Originally Posted by llanitedave
If they don't make it available downstream.
Most free software licenses do not require this.
Violating the GPL doesn't seem to be specific to China. In the past several companies from Europe, the USA, Japan, Korea, ... did that, too. I tend to think that the USA with its patent law and crypto export restrictions is much more a problem for free software.
The Linux kernel uses the GPL, and so do many of the included apps, so making changes available downstream DOES apply. If they don't do this, then the term "stealing" is certainly applicable.
I'm not saying they will, although as you point out China has not proven themselves averse to such behavior in the past. And just because they aren't alone in violating GPL doesn't make it acceptable. Companies in Europe and the U.S. who *have* done that in the past have been brought to court -- and lost.
Working out a deal with Canonical will not exempt them from observing the GPL for the kernel or any other part of the software stack that uses it.
I think you mean upstream. You and I as end users are downstream. Where ever the source is at is upstream. But in a sense, you right, because changes that go in one direction, per the GPL, have to be at least be reported in the other direction.
C.S.Cameron said: From The Register
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/22/china_makes_linux_os_with_canonical_help/
China's decision to plough more resources into Linux development stems from a similar desire to wean
itself off of [COLOR="#FF0000"] price gouging [/COLOR]technologies developed by Western companies as part of the nation's latest five year plan.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Chair throwing should commence in 3...2...1....][/COLOR]
llanitedave said: If they don't make it available downstream.
From questionable recollection the majority of GPL violations I recall have been from countries that enforce copyright & patent law. There have been many GPL violations by companies from the USA for example, Microsoft, Cisco etc.
But I suppose we still need a big bad bogey man, we're good guys and the others are bad...
Linuxratty said: [COLOR=#FF0000]Chair throwing should commence in 3...2...1....][/COLOR]
rof,lmao!!
i hear they have an app for that ( but its not compatible with open source chairs )
My earlier post in opposition got jailed; I'm not entirely sure what was wrong with it, except that I said "The Chinese" when I meant "The Chinese government". Unfortunately, after the jailing, someone else on another forum noted that "there seems to be no opposition from anyone on Ubuntu Forums" which is certainly not the case.
I'll be a bit more careful in this post as I'd like my opposition to stand on record.
I'm strongly opposed to Western companies getting into bed with the Chinese government. I'm especially opposed to Canonical doing this, and I consider that writing a distro for Chinese government use is "getting into bed" with them. The risks are enormous - not just to Canonical but also to Ubuntu and its users - and I don't think Canonical has the savvy to avoid the risks. There's also the question of ethics which is too large to ignore.
I've not completely made up my mind, but I think this will be my last pure Ubuntu installation. I have concerns about what could happen if China decided it was strong enough to take aggressive action, and Ubuntu effectively being used against me if I was on the front lines of any future conflict. I'm feeling like I want to move away from Ubuntu, initially to Linux Mint and then perhaps to something not derived from Ubuntu code. Debian maybe?
I won't make a big song and dance about it because that will annoy people, but I'm very disappointed that Canonical is making this move, and also disappointed in Canonical's sense of ethics too. I do hope that it will be strong enough to stand up for itself against any unethical demands from the Chinese government.
Closed for review.
Re-opened.
With a final reminder to stay within the Code of Conduct and to veer away from politics.
We understand that it's not always easy to do so.
3rdalbum said: The risks are enormous - not just to Canonical but also to Ubuntu and its users
Can you be a bit more specific about what you think these might be?
It's still an open source product, the code will be available for review by all. I don't see any risk of anything underhand going on. So what if there are a set of patches that are applied to the Chinese market? It's not like anything is going to get upstream without having a lot of eyeballs on it.
This is good news for Canonical. Having more users using the Ubuntu base will hopefully bring new developers on board as well as helping identify and fix bugs. I would remind users not to get political about this.
If this project is successful it will be good. If it fails then it's not the end of the world, but we lose a big chance to increase government adoption of free software. If this project is successful then other people may follow suit.
Ubuntu is going to become the best distro. Because we will have ten times as many people working on it compared to other distros. It will be polished so brightly you won't even be able to look at it.
darrenn said: Ubuntu is going to become the best distro. Because we will have ten times as many people working on it compared to other distros. It will be polished so brightly you won't even be able to look at it.
Quantity does not mean Quality.
Also best is indefinable as it is subjective to a user experience and level of knowledge.
There are many developers getting paid lots of money so highly motivated (in theory) working on Windows, but not everyone enjoys it ;-)
Peace
S Korea next?
I think people are pretty much sick of hackers. from what i read "wiper" got into S Korea banking via a phishing message what does Snoopy say for such ?
"Good grief!" --perhaps?
S Korea next?
Maybe. I think North Korea already have their own Linux Distro called Red Star OS.
mr john said: Maybe. I think North Korea already have their own Linux Distro called Red Star OS.
just from memory,---
i'm not sure folks are going to be all that fond of a main computer set up like a phone and that could also push a few more folks over to Linux...
the Core of the matter is in the kernel of course.... it appears Mr. Tannenbaum has most like lost his argument with Mr. Torvalds, QED, essentially
all of which leaves me wondering just what were RING1 and 2 for, anyway ??
I think that it is a good news helping Linux, and Ubuntu especial, getting the critical mass for spreading out.
There are still many people who don't know that there exist something else then M$ and apple. And many of them who already heard about Linux the only thing they know about it is that it is "difficult" and " complicated" and nothing for them.
And if Linux gets more users it will be also more interesting for companies producing HW and SW, which will make Linux more user friendly.
Therefor, this decision can be one small (but maybe important) of many steps in the marathon trying to establish Linux on the market.
doja said: I think that it is a good news helping Linux, and Ubuntu especial, getting the critical mass for spreading out.
There are still many people who don't know that there exist something else that M$ and apple. And many of the them who already heard about Linux the only thing they know is that it is "difficult" and " complicated" and nothing for them.
And if Linux gets more users it will be also more interesting for companies producing HW and SW, which will make Linux more user friendly.
Therefor, this decision can be one small (but maybe important) of the many steps in the marathon trying establish Linux on the market.
I think the Office Desktop Workstation, aka the "Classic PC" -- is the last gasp for the chair-throwing O/S . I think I read someplace the chair-throwers are working on porting their Office Suite to Linux . The Old Chair Thrower is hit and he's going down . Like all monsters, a bit too slowly and way too painfully .
mike acker said: I think the Office Desktop Workstation, aka the "Classic PC" -- is the last gasp for the chair-throwing O/S . I think I read someplace the chair-throwers are working on porting their Office Suite to Linux . The Old Chair Thrower is hit and he's going down . Like all monsters, a bit too slowly and way too painfully .
This is the point. A company that has 90% of the market decide. Break the monopole is difficult. I like Ubuntu because it is easy and helped me understand Linux. I don't claim it is the best distribution, but in my opinion Linux needs one distribution for desctop PC that is user friendly and spread out to set some sustainable standards on which anybody can rely. It will help also all other distributions.
My feelings about this are mixed.
First of all I think it's extremely positive that China wants to use more FOSS software, and move away from proprietary software that often is pirated! If Canonical managed to do this without sacrificing any principles, then I would be all for this. I mean, if this is solely a Chinese version of Ubuntu with some add-ons tailored for the Chinese marked, I see nothing wrong with this.
However, I'm still kind of worried. I mean, who are we kidding? China has a history of censorship and surveillance of it's own citizens, and given what we know about the way things work over there, it _*is*_ reasonable to be suspicious about this. Basically China wants to roll their own official distro and they want to base it on Ubuntu and use the expertice of Canonical in order to pull this off. So how do we know that they won't add proprietary blobs containing spyware? I can imagine they would be interested in programs detecting proxies or VPN's; keyloggers, etc.
Such software would obviouosly not "make it upstream", yet it is still hugely problematic if Canonical decided to use their expertise to help the Chinese government _*if*_ they also knew that they were planning to implement such features.
Dry Lips said: My feelings about this are mixed.
China has a history of censorship and surveillance of it's own citizens, and given what we know about the way things work over there, it _*is*_ reasonable to be suspicious about this.
I agree with you, but try to see it in positive way.
It is like a censorship for the internet. There are some countries that try set a censorship on the internet. But there are always many ways how to overcome such restrictions or use the internet in a way you need. It would be worse if there would be no internet at all in this countries.
If a country set an open source OS as a standard there will be always a way to modify it. Nobody says you have to use only the end distribution chosen by the government. You should be suspicious (and not only against a country) and open source gives you better possibility for surveillance.
Separation from an enemy is worse then be in dialog with him, because then you have the chance to influence him. The question isn't if me or nobody, rather if me or someone else.
China provides a great opportunity and I applaud Canonical for making it "in". Many companies are trying to make a "go" at it there and even the big-guys are not having an easy time.
Canonical and Ubuntu makes sense for this because of their commercial/open source relationship. Both Red Hat and Fedora, SUSE and openSUSE do not have the same exact code-base or commercial support of the open source variant. For servers, they have their commercial arm and for desktops openSUSE is better but still not as user-focused as Ubuntu is.
I hope that this is a financial windfall boost Canonical needs to not only make it to the black and sustain it, but to supply growth so development can do even more awesome things!
I can understand China's point of view of not wanting to be reliant on western companies such as Microsoft or Apple. It is a security issue compared to if the government is not happy with Ubuntu in the long run they have the option of forking Ubuntu and creating/running their own version. There is also likely a cost savings (license costs of proprietary software vs. support costs to Canonical).
This isn't just on PCs either. This can extend into the cellular market as well and considering the current "top dogs" are all of questionable control by China (Apple, Google & Microsoft), and Ubuntu phone, and eventually tablet, likewise would be more manageable/controllable.
Any dealings like this will be tricky, though I do think Mark S. may be able to handle it. And if one country benefits from this move, others may come as well.
Good Luck Canonical!
Would be awesome if all countries migrated to linux.
WhaleVPS said: Would be awesome if all countries migrated to linux.
Come on, let us start!!! :)
doja said: Separation of an enemy is worse then be in dialog with him, because then you have the chance to influence him.
The question isn't if me or nobody, rather if me or someone else.
That's a concept you often hear many different settings. However, if you ignore things you know are wrong in order to seek to influence someone positively, you've silently consented to their position. And how can you get someone to change their ways by silently accepting their position and offering to assist them in carrying out their plans? I don't think Canonical thinks of this as anything beyond a market opportunity, and even if they _*had*_ planned to use this partnership in order to propagate the western ideas of information freedom, they would still be a small company with a very limited sphere of influence.
In other words, instead of managing to influence someone to change their ways, there is also the possibility that *_you_*'re the one who end up being influenced.
WhaleVPS said: Would be awesome if all countries migrated to linux.
Unless that only creates a "monopoly" which is subsequently leveraged and abused for the commercial distributions' profit and gain. In which case we're back in the position we are in now with Microsoft and Windows dominance in the desktop (although yet, mobile is slowly eroding this).
Dragonbite said: Unless that only creates a "monopoly" which is subsequently leveraged and abused for the commercial distributions' profit and gain. In which case we're back in the position we are in now with Microsoft and Windows dominance in the desktop (although yet, mobile is slowly eroding this).
Interesting. Would an open-source monopoly even be possible?
Dry Lips said: I don't think Canonical thinks of this as anything beyond a market opportunity, and even if they _*had*_ planned to use this partnership in order to propagate the western ideas of information freedom, they would still be a small company with a very limited sphere of influence.
There is no arguing that Canonical is interested in the market. They are no human rights activists (at least not by the primary interest of distribution their product). The ones who influences the political system are the users. There are two reasons speaking for Ubuntu that immediately come to my mind.
First, open source is no black box. That means well suitable for modifying and surveillance. Second, Ubuntu develops one system for the whole world. It would be much easier for censorship or any kind of restriction if totalitary systems would develop or buy something that is completly different then the rest of the world use.
But as long as Canonicals product is open source I agree. I will disagree if Canonical would develop some software or including some for spying on the people.
In your moral any trade with countries different to ours should be forbiden, because anything can be used against the people. But the people are the one who suffer at the end. You know one can question everything and in this case I would start even by the western information freedom itself. One should be realist not idealist. How many people are proud on their iPhone? And how many people are intersted in the living condition of the people who makes them?
But of course I respect your (and all others) opinion and understand your point.
doja said: I will disagree if Canonical would develop some software or including some for spying on the people.
Like the US government apparently included in Windows? http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/5/5263/1.html
Taking in account the amount of Ubuntu derivatives available it doesn't seem too difficult to fork it when necessary, and there doesn't seem to be any shortage of competent Chinese hackers either.
I am not sure how one would implement surveillance backdoors to spy on people with open source software,--at least that doesn't sound like a sensible choice. The Chinese has long had developed a version of Linux based on RedHat(Red Flag) and it has a "community version" called qomo (sort of like Fedora to Redhat), I have not heard of surveillance building into these. I think the Chinese' motivation is probably more simple,namely to wean itself off technological dependencies on Western Companies like MS. Linux, while "Western" in some historical sense it doesn't really have a nationality because it is open and free, it is "western' only in the same way that 'Western mathematics" is 'western',--which is really not.
Incidentally, the Taiwanese government is also quite active in promoting Linux (they have government bureau to bench mark linux compatibility for hardware) and it is motivated by mostly the same considerations.
monkeybrain2012 said: The Chinese has long had developed a version of Linux based on RedHat(Red Flag) and it has a "community version" called qomo (sort of like Fedora to Redhat), I have not heard of surveillance building into these..
As far as I know, Red Flag is mostly used in corporate settings. And at the moment, Linux isn't more widespread among regular users than in the western world. In other words, as long as the use of linux remains marginal, there is no point in adding proprietary blobs of code to such systems.
However, this might quickly change if Ubuntu Kylin becomes a success and managed to capture large parts of the marked that Microsoft until now has dominated. I'm sure many of you know about the Chinese version of Skype? It has 96 million users and features a keylogger that scans for certain phrases.
Now, the fact that Skype (owned by Microsoft) wasn't permitted to enter the Chinese marked without adding spyware to the program, is definitively bad news for Canonical!
Some of you question if an open source system could have features such as keyloggers, etc. What they would do if they were to do this, was to add bits of code that remained closed source. Once the code is compiled you cannot read it unless you have the source. Thus even an "open source" OS can contain code that is proprietary. (Though this would probably mean that they broke the GPL licence.)
tartalo said: Like the US government apparently included in Windows? http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/5/5263/1.html
Taking in account the amount of Ubuntu derivatives available it doesn't seem too difficult to fork it when necessary, and there doesn't seem to be any shortage of competent Chinese hackers either.
Have any articles more recent than 1999? That's even before Windows XP came out (heck, before the Y2k issue).
That was, like, sooooo last century! :)
The driver, called ADVAPI.DLL, enables and controls a range of security functions. If you use Windows, you will find it in the C:\Windows\system directory of your computer.
I didn't find it there, and I have hidden files visible.
Who is going to be the ultimate project controller and image producer? Canonical can supply a fully-functioning operating system that the project owners add something to before imaging it out and distributing it. Canonical would not be involved at all.
Paranoia is a slipper slope.
Dragonbite said: Have any articles more recent than 1999?
Sure, http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9141182/Microsoft_denies_it_built_backdoor_in_Windows_7
tartalo said: Sure, http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9141182/Microsoft_denies_it_built_backdoor_in_Windows_7
Interesting read, but it doesn't say they found one in there. It's about questioning whether the NSA should be involved with the development of an OS, and Microsoft denying their "Security Compliance Management Toolkit" is a backdoor.
Something to keep in mind that the NSA also helped previous OS developers a while ago, including Apple. One product that came out of this cooperation with Red Hat is SELinux, which is included by default on Red Hat and Fedora installations. SUSE (or was it Novell or openSUSE? I dunno) developed a variation of it that was not tied into the kernel called AppArmor. AppArmor is available for Ubuntu, but I don't know if it is installed by default or not (sorry, I'm sitting in front of a Windows XP machine, wishing it was any Linux).
There are 2 branches to NSA; one hacks into things, the other takes that knowledge and works to prevent it from working.
Dry Lips said:
Now, the fact that Skype (owned by Microsoft) wasn't permitted to enter the Chinese marked without adding spyware to the program, is definitively bad news for Canonical!
Some of you question if an open source system could have features such as keyloggers, etc. What they would do if they were to do this, was to add bits of code that remained closed source. Once the code is compiled you cannot read it unless you have the source. Thus even an "open source" OS can contain code that is proprietary. (Though this would probably mean that they broke the GPL licence.)
Well Skype is not a free software. As for your second scenario they could do that even without involving Canonical if they want to, Ubuntu's source codes are openly available and there is nothing to stop them if they want to create some closed source variant by modifying it that would include spying mechanism (not that they are particularly worried about being sued for licensing issues anyway)
monkeybrain2012 said: As for your second scenario they could do that even without involving Canonical if they want to,
Yes, Canonical is resposible for their own doing and not for the doing of any government. If someone misuse a legal OS it is not fault of Canonical. And not only some government is watched by the people, but also Canonical. The reputation of Canonical would suffer considerable should comes out that they are helping any undemocratic system. And such things come out. Even such a gigant like google has to be carefull with helping (or tolerate) some officials by censorship.
If I understood the news well China chose Ubuntu as a reference OS and this is good. But nobody force anybody to use Kylin in privacy. And if a goverment or goverment officials misuse one OS they would do it with any other OS either.
There's nothing to prevent the Chinese government from getting hold of a copy of any Linux distribution and modifying it as they see fit. They don't need an agreement with Canonical or anyone else.
They'd have to deal with Linus, in theory, if they tried to wall off the kernel, but I don't think that any copyright holder, whether GPLed or not, would have much ability to influence events in country.
llanitedave said: There's nothing to prevent the Chinese government from getting hold of a copy of any Linux distribution and modifying it as they see fit. They don't need an agreement with Canonical or anyone else.
They'd have to deal with Linus, in theory, if they tried to wall off the kernel, but I don't think that any copyright holder, whether GPLed or not, would have much ability to influence events in country.
Nobody seems to get this.
I give up. I tried to reply again, my post got jailed. I'll keep my risk assessment under my hat.
Let's just say, I oppose Canonical dealing with the Chinese government. I'd like this to go on the record.
monkeybrain2012 said: [..] As for your second scenario they could do that even without involving Canonical if they want to, Ubuntu's source codes are openly available and there is nothing to stop them if they want to create some closed source variant by modifying it that would include spying mechanism (not that they are particularly worried about being sued for licensing issues anyway)
Don't you see that this argument can be turned on its head? I mean, spyware or no spyware, since they could just have created a fork of Ubuntu, why did they choose to cooperate with Canonical _*at all*_? Why not roll their own distro?
I think the answer is quite obvious,there is something that the Chinese government cannot fork, and that is brand recognition, trust, and a nice portfolio of OEM and ISV partners. Apparently there are already thousands of Ubuntu stores in China selling laptops with Ubuntu preloaded, and it is a well known brand for hardware vendors. It _*does*_ make sense to use external expertise, and this is something that the Chinese have been doing for a long time.
Those of you who are familiar with Chinese technology knows that even though they make many things themselves instead of buying it, they will often rely on foreign expertise for key components. Example: For their space program they have cooperated closely with Russia, who has more than 50 years of expertise in this area. A similar example that is relevant for this discussion, is how western companies have been selling China technology used for surveillance. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/01/selling-china-surveillance
Additionally, Canonical is attempting to do something which fits the Chinese idea of an official standardized “reference architecture”. Basically Canonical is striving to make a universal distro that functions across various devices, including “desktop, server, cloud, tablet and phone”. Of course they could fork everything, but they would have more control over the final product if they cooperated directly with Canonical instead of being dependent on it as an upstream provider that they didn't have any formal connection to.
Here is what Mark Shuttleworth says about the deal: *"Ubuntu combines proven technology with a mature ecosystem and strong OEM and ISV partners, and this initiative allows the Joint Lab to bring those strengths to China across the full range of platforms: desktop, server, cloud, tablet and phone." * http://www.canonical.com/content/canonical-and-chinese-standards-body-announce-ubuntu-collaboration
To sum it up, the keyword that forms the basis of this deal is “*convergence*”.
Dry Lips said:
I think the answer is quite obvious,there is something that the Chinese government cannot fork, and that is brand recognition, trust, and a nice portfolio of OEM and ISV partners. Apparently there are already thousands of Ubuntu stores in China selling laptops with Ubuntu preloaded, and it is a well known brand for hardware vendors. It _*does*_ make sense to use external expertise, and this is something that the Chinese have been doing for a long time.
You answer your own question. I cannot see why that would necessarily imply that the Chinese try to use Ubuntu as a Trojan horse.While I won't defend the Chinese government, one should keep in mind that China is not a monolith, there are many advocates for open source as a means for technological independence in China's science and tech sector (as is the case in Taiwan)
It is also in China's interest to create and market a Chinese brand OS (just as they try to make their own chip and cars) Ubuntu seems to fit the bill in establishing standard, and being open architecture it has the benefit of transparency and there is no patent issues to worry down the road. Canonical also brings many unique expertise to the table as you said yourself. It is a mutually beneficial arrangement, It doesn't have to involve anything nefarious.
There has been technological exchanges between China and many Western institutions and most of them are quite legit. The cold war like fear mongering that sometimes coming out from the Western press is not always believable (it exaggerates something and at the same time downplaying other stuffs)
monkeybrain2012 said: The cold war like fear mongering that sometimes coming out from the Western press is not always believable (it exaggerates something and at the same time downplaying other stuffs)
The Western press doesn't fearmonger about China, they are generally cautiously optimistic about China. Probably because they don't want their reporters denied entry.
This is something Mark has tried to figure out, as he spoke of specific Ubuntu versions per country and governments. I wrote to Mark at the offered address given below, and we talked about China then. Little did I know my suggestion of China, was most likely in the making for Ubuntu as an official Chinese flavor, then.
http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/date/2012/03
"[I]Governments are making increasingly effective use of Ubuntu in large-scale projects, from big data to little schools. There is growing confidence in open source in government quarters, and growing sophistication in how they engage with it. [/I] *But adopting open source is not just about replacing one kind of part with another. Open source is not just a substitute for shrink-wrapped proprietary software. It’s much more malleable in the hands of industry and users, and you can engage with it very differently as a result. I’m interested in hearing from thought leaders in the civil service on ways they think governments could get much more value with open source, by embracing that flexibility. For example, rather than one-size-fits-all software, why can’t we deliver custom versions of Ubuntu for different regions or countries or even departments and purposes? Could we enable the city government of Frankfurt to order PC’s with the Ubuntu German Edition pre-installed?* *Or could we go further, and enable those governments to participate in the definition and production and certification process? So rather than having to certify exactly the same bits which everyone else is using, they could create a flavour which is still “certified Ubuntu” and fully compatible with the whole Ubuntu ecosystem, can still be ordered pre-installed from global providers like Dell and Lenovo, but has the locally-certified collection of software, customizations, and certifications layered on top?* *If we expand our thinking beyond “replacing what went before”, how could we make it possible for the PC companies to deliver much more relevant offerings, and better value to governments by virtue of free software? Most of the industry processes and pipelines were set up with brittle, fixed, proprietary software in mind. But we’re now in a position to drive change, if there’s a better way to do it, and customers to demand it.* *So, for a limited time only, you can reach me at [EMAIL="governator@canonical.com"]governator@canonical.com[/EMAIL] (there were just too many cultural references there to resist, and it’s not a mailbox that will be needed again soon [IMG]http://www.markshuttleworth.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif[/IMG] . If you are in the public service, or focused on the way governments and civic institutions can use open source beyond simply ordering large numbers of machines at a lower cost, drop me a note and let’s strike up a conversation".*
;p