SuSE vs. Ubuntu

I've been using Ubuntu for about a year now, I love it, I can easily edit my system to look and run however I like, install all my favorite apps, and configure a server and the rest of a network, however I also tried SuSE linux 10.1 for fun, It install most of what I wanted out of the box (java, flash, audio codecs, etc.) however I still don't know alot of the commands but this can easily be solved, I downloaded alot of the programs I wanted including the one that gave me huge problems on Ubuntu when I first started, Limewire, I know frostwire comes in a DEB pkg, but Limewire just seems to run better, I simply downloaded the RPM and installed, not at all dificult. But I can't really decide which I like more they're both great distros and I'd like to hear some oppinions of those in this community, reasons for why which might be "better" in what situation I think Ubuntu is probably the BEST looking Distro and most sensibly put together, however SuSE may be the most userfriendly (without being totally windblows like) YAST is a great tool.

any input is greatly appreciated :-)

thanks in advance

hmmm thats a hard one I would have to say suse but that maybe a bad option considering I'm on a ubuntu forum.

and I don't think Suse is written like that anymore I have no idea anymore it keeps changing every couple weeks lol, make up your mind, you may want to try out su....I mean opensuse 10.2 when it comes out cause that is going to be a great project. I had a better experience on Suse but I didn't want to pay for the sled so I'm live disk jumping right now.

I just want to see some improvements to kde this time around cause they upgraded the hell out of gnome

On my computer it takes forever to open YAST. Maybe it is a great tool, but it just does not work very well for me. It is one perfect distro for a person terrified of command line. Just point and click. But I prefer Ubuntu.

I purchased SuSE 9.3 and ran it on one of my desktops for learning purposes back in early 2005. Since then I upgraded to 10.0 and more recently 10.1

During the same time I ran ubuntu on another partition and now have Dapper installed on my Lenovo laptop and one of my desktops.

I have gradually migrated to ubuntu after cutting my teeth on SuSE and earlier versions of ubuntu and now find I prefer the gnome desktop and ubuntu way of doing things.

I no longer run SuSE as I find it bloated. I was also frustrated with the 10.1 upgrade, even with a fresh install, and all the problems with the new update system - which didn't work when released (why release it?)

I think I am a lot more comfortable with linux now and maybe that is why I feel I can cut loose from SuS.. oops, OpenSuSE which is a nice distro for those abandoning Windows for the first time.

IMHO

wolf

This is of course going to be an opinion but I like the way Ubuntu is setup better. I like that the root account is disabled and I just sudo for everything. Really though it is mainly because I put alot of effort to get Ubuntu working the way I like it. I have a pretty good feel for the way things work with Debian/Ubuntu and SuSE is enough different I just doesn't "feel" right. I am generally impressed with SuSE. If Debian and Ubuntu disappeared I would most likely move to OpenSuSE.

Both SuSE and Ubuntu are great distros; they are the two best desktop distros in my opinion.

As for differences, Ubuntu has better repositories (as a Debian derivative), and a far bigger and better community (and the support from there) - overall I prefer it. It seems a better OS for the computer enthusiast. However, SuSE is far more 'professional' or business-oriented. There are still too many things Ubuntu forces you to do from the command line, while SuSE has yast. SuSE also has good integration with the various Novell tools for enterprises.

Well I'm not going to say one is better than the other, but go to http://distrowatch.com/ and look at the Distro rankings. For a even more accurate idea of Ubuntu vs. Suse popularity add up Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Xubuntu and compare that number to Suse. K/X/Ubuntu=3564 hits on distrowatch in the past 6 months. Suse=1933 hits in the past 6 months. 1631 more hits for Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubutu than Suse! Maybe Ubuntu is more popular for a reason? I've used both, and my opinion is Suse is nice(but bloated)while Ubuntu is near perfect(for me).

I just loaded SUSE 10 and it gave me the choice of KDE or Gnome....it is great but I have to configure the DSL connection, printer and sound card.

also the bootloader doesn't work....

but this is the only distro I could get to install on this computer....but thats another story

If any body here is used to using SUSE and give me clues on how to enable my DSL, printer and sound card...please do or provide links...

also a link to their user forum would be great

yozef said: I just loaded SUSE 10 and it gave me the choice of KDE or Gnome....it is great but I have to configure the DSL connection, printer and sound card.

also the bootloader doesn't work....

but this is the only distro I could get to install on this computer....but thats another story

If any body here is used to using SUSE and give me clues on how to enable my DSL, printer and sound card...please do or provide links...

also a link to their user forum would be great

http://www.suseforums.net/ Used to use Suse way back when, never could get it to use my cable modem, or print in any way other than weird chicken scratches(but that was a long long time ago). If you have a fast computer and like Yast it's wonderful. The current distro is just too bloadted and yast runs SOOOOO slowly on my computer I feel like poking myself in the eye for excitement.

I tried SUSE 10.1, but even using GNOME on it I found it to be way too bloated. Ubuntu is just what I need. Plus this community is better than the suse community. Don't think I hated it though. I also think Ubuntu and SUSE are the two best distros.

Nevermind I can't stand SUSE, I wouldn't want to use it if they paid me.

i really appreciate the great community based support that i can get for ubuntu and that for me gives it an edge over suse. also ubuntu just has more online resources for the newbies. i have used both and in fact have suse sitting on another partition as i type this but nowadays are more inclined towards dapper. a added feature is that my ipod video finally works with gtkpod in dapper!

I have been a Suse user for a couple of years now and find that distro to be super. It has almost everything you could wish for. But there are some downsides and they could be for example;

• Possibly slower than other distros on boot and in normal operations.
• Not as glued together GUI and application wise as other distros.
• A REALLY messed up update and package managment system. Came last release. Before that things were ALOT better.

Otherwise Suse is really a greate distro. It always has all applications acceccable to users that cannot build their own packages.

I have noticed now as a new user to Ubuntu that Ubuntu packages often are of older releases in the repos. I have activated all the repos that could be acivated but still there are only old versions of some apps. This is irritating. Using suse there was always a choise to use the absolute latest releases. One such example is the Multisync app I am trying to find upto date versions on. Ubuntu only has an old buggy version.

So far Ubuntu has been really impressing and I am still learning alot about this distro. Lots of pros fro Ubuntu that is for sure.

yozef said: Nevermind I can't stand SUSE, I wouldn't want to use it if they paid me.

Sad part is I once paid 60 bucks for a set of their install disks. I really did like them. Now I'm kinda in your boat. It certainly has it's devotees though(to me they seem a little like the Mac community):razz: .

rattlerviper said: Sad part is I once paid 60 bucks for a set of their install disks. I really did like them. Now I'm kinda in your boat. It certainly has it's devotees though(to me they seem a little like the Mac community):razz: .

Let's hope it won't happen to ubuntu. But the best part is that evern if it would there always be some other distro to take its place.

VirtuAlex said: Let's hope it won't happen to ubuntu. But the best part is that evern if it would there always be some other distro to take its place.

Your right there is a plethora of distros out there willing to step in and be the best. Personally I feel the problem with Suse is due to being disconnected from the community. They have seem to have fallen behind. They are making efforts to reattach to the communuty though, it is now OpenSuse. I expect we will see some changes begin to come down the line.

I'll also add that I don't see this happening at Ubuntu. One of the big reasons I'm here and not somewhere else is the philosophy. The software is really good, but the philosophy and the community here are what keeps me. Then again back in 1999 and 2000 it was Suse that seemed untouchable to me, so who knows.

I ran SUSE 10.0 (for a desktop and server) for over a year before trying Ubuntu 6.06. I have to say dapper is a much better distro and this forum is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better than any I found for SUSE.

Its really a matter of preference. Thats what's great about having different distros.

Ive not used the SUSE distro, but im using the SLED 10 and that freaking distro is awesome.

I tripple boot Ubuntu Dapper, SLED 10, and Fedora 5. I love them all. LOL

Well I think the bestest disco is RedHat 5.0 no Really! Just kidding just recently came over from the xp dark side and the last linux was RH 5 try getting a sharp widenote resolution and drivers on that setup.

But now I have tried all the different flavors I can honestly say in my humble opion that I think ubuntu has something here and I don't see myself leaving anytime soon.

Just one question "Why is the Goddess Ubuntu tempting me with her muses?" I have tried the kde to busy and bloated started really liking the gnome version got it all setup and am now in Xubuntu and loving it even more.

Does the Temptress Goddess Ubuntu have any shame?

I think that suse appeals to former red hat Linux users, as well. Suse is a great distro, and it's got a lot of professional polish on it, if it weren't for the package managment issues I might very well be using SLED 10.

I've recently found a new distro that I think in the future will out due both Ubuntu and SuSE, it's called Dreamlinux

www.dreamlinux.com.br

darkenedday said: I've recently found a new distro that I think in the future will out due both Ubuntu and SuSE, it's called Dreamlinux

www.dreamlinux.com.br

Honestly it is nice but has a way to go...I would say it currently out does SUSE but not even close to Ubuntu:

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=231242

I said in the future :-P

darkenedday said: I said in the future :-P

out done SUSE...present

the near future for Ubuntu....I agree;) to a point

They may eventually out do Mac OS X...imagine OS X like distro that is completely open source

The only thing that needs work is the english support but that will come as more Enlgish speaking users begin to use it, after that all the peices will fall into place much like it did for ubuntu. I've been thinking though, why not start an Ubuntu Cafe forum for new and upcoming distro's (I understand we have the "other linux" forums but I mean like a monthly change for the newest distros, an individual forum like 2 or 3)

darkenedday said: The only thing that needs work is the english support but that will come as more Enlgish speaking users begin to use it, after that all the peices will fall into place much like it did for ubuntu. I've been thinking though, why not start an Ubuntu Cafe forum for new and upcoming distro's (I understand we have the "other linux" forums but I mean like a monthly change for the newest distros, an individual forum like 2 or 3)

great idea I will pass your idea on:p

yozef said: great idea I will pass your idea on:p

Your request has been posted in the moderator forum...now it is just up to Ubuntu-Geek to implement it when he adopts new forum changes here...soon.

Now back on topic?....oh yes.....SUSE vs Ubuntu

Sorry but SUSE isn't even in the same ballfield,...not to knock SUSE...it's just a fine example of overworked bloat that doesn't work to optimal performance IMO

Thanks for the FWD. I'm beginning to agree with you on the way SuSE is the more I use it the more I dislike it, it was good at first, but maybe that's because I used M$ for most of my life

darkenedday said: Thanks for the FWD. I'm beginning to agree with you on the way SuSE is the more I use it the more I dislike it, it was good at first, but maybe that's because I used M$ for most of my life

:pSUSE is way better then MS:D

what isnt?

I have very mixed reviews so far from my try-out of Suse 10.1. Personally, I don't care for Yast at all. I don't like how slow and cumbersome it is... I don't think it integrates into Gnome well at all, it's not always particularly stable, and it makes some things more difficult than they need to be.

I'm not happy with rug... that's funny because I so loved it along with Red Carpet once upon a time but now I'm just such a huge fan of apt and Synaptic. I find updating a bit... clumsy with very little information available. I also found the installer to be clunky, ugly, and incredibly slow. It pales in comparison to Ubuntu's "Live CD" installer... I really love that.

Otherwise, so far I gotta say I'm very, very impressed. XGL was extremely easy to enable (though it crashed once while enabling it the first time) without requiring me to edit anything. It knew that I'd need the proprietary ATI drivers and knew how to get them and set them up. It also did a masterful/fantastic job (so it seems) at tweaking my xorg.conf... wow. It even beautifully configured my Dell 2005FPW widescreen LCD. I mean... look at the attached file.

Ubuntu does seem to be ahead of the curve with up to date packages.. little things, like Banshee 0.10.9 instead of 0.10.10... and what appears to be a much older version of Evolution.. not sure on that point since I've been running Edgy for a while now. I haven't yet worked out where to find more "catalogs" for rug or whatever (it's been a long time) so some applications, like gthumb, aren't currently installable.

All in all, Suse 10.1 points out some glaring holes in Ubuntu Dapper AND Edgy, but that's not to say it's better. It's not. Take NetworkManager's support for VPN (and no, I didn't get it to work with my company's stupid SonicWall) and SaX2's work on my xorg.conf and stick it in Ubuntu... and shake in easy configuration for XGL or AIGLX enabling, and Ubuntu would soundly knock out SUSE for me. SUSE on the other hand, at least for me, would take a lot more time to write in this entry.

I thought Suse was better than Ubuntu in every way... except that the package system absolutely sucks. And that is enough to kill it for me. I couldn't install alot of my favorite software without tracking down extra repositories, and the drivers for about half of my hardware were even missing.

Personally, I think they should just switch completely to apt (even apt for rpm). If they did that, and improved their package collection the way a huge company like Novell is capable of, they'd have the best desktop distro around.

I'm using 64-bit Suse again this week, and despite the fact that I'm still very disappointed with the package management (when I installed, the YOU setup partially failed and I can't get it to work at all now), I'm liking the distro more and more overall. It's lacking in hardware detection, but with a little reading of the documentation and knowledge of my hardware I've been able to get a bunch off stuff working that I couldn't pull off with 64-bit Ubuntu. Fglrx was harder to install (I had to add a repository) but afterward Xgl/Compiz is completely effortless. The network applet is on par with OSX networking, in that it allows me to move between wireless networks completely automatically and it hasn't given me any problems at all yet. And best of all, the 64-bit SMP kernel allows my laptop to suspend to ram perfectly well and very quickly, which I couldn't do with ANY of Ubuntu's SMP kernels.

Suse was my very first distro that I ever tried. I liked it a lot, but that was when I was doing things blind, searching for repos, not knowing what software to install to get dvd's going, codecs, etc, I was a real noob. What really put me off it was BPALOGIN, a simple cable client that's needed for BigPond (here in Australia). No matter how much I searched, posted on boards, etc, no one could tell me how to get it working, supposedly there was some script to incorporate it into suse's firewall, but for a new linux user (2 years ago), way above my head. My second choice was Mandriva, and finally Ubuntu... I'm glad I changed. Ubuntu might not have the latest and greatest in the current repositories, but I'd prefer stability over the newest and potentially bug-ridden any day.

i used suse before i discovered ubuntu. suse had some issues with gnome relying to heavily on kde apps...that pissed me off. PLus suse had to many dependencies to resolve...to install...anytinng.Ill give suse 10.2 a try on a seperate partition..but for now im using ubuntu only

i am very open-minded to other distros than debian (which i use), (i love fedora,ubuntu,and freebsd) but suse-NO. suse 10.1 is the slowest operating system i have ever seen, it boots amazingly slowly. i cant figure howto upgrade packages in yast. is it online update, update packages... it takes about 30 seconds to start yast on my computer. its package manager and way of respositories is absolutely terrible. but it is very novell polished.:)

My very first distro was Mandrake, then Red Hat, and then SuSE 8.2 I liked SuSE the best back then and I kept using it till 9.3. I barely used my linux box it was mainly so I could shoutcast my music 24/7. Then I came across Hoary and I have been hooked ever since. I worked out the box on my old Dell Latitude Cpi and since then I have Breezy on a old Gateway Solo Notebook. I have basically been putting Ubuntu on every PC i can get my hands on. I wish they had a DVD so that people using dialup could still get some basic features out of the gate. But I am more than happy with Ubuntu it rocks!!!

andlinux21 said: My very first distro was Mandrake, then Red Hat, and then SuSE 8.2 I liked SuSE the best back then and I kept using it till 9.3. I barely used my linux box it was mainly so I could shoutcast my music 24/7. Then I came across Hoary and I have been hooked ever since. I worked out the box on my old Dell Latitude Cpi and since then I have Breezy on a old Gateway Solo Notebook. I have basically been putting Ubuntu on every PC i can get my hands on. I wish they had a DVD so that people using dialup could still get some basic features out of the gate. But I am more than happy with Ubuntu it rocks!!!

There are DVDs:

http://torrent.ubuntu.com/releases/dapper/release.1/dvd/

http://cargol.net/~ramon/ubuntu-dvd-en

after awhile you start to miss all the good suse stuff I just wish they didn't go gnome. If I wanted to type in commands I would go back to my slackware system, yast does take a while to start but thats ok, cause I can configure my whole system using that, its also got better hardware support. you can stop with the suse 10.1 they openly said there was a problem and have provided fixes openSuse 10.2 should go back to normal. I must be going now you can continue your suse and novell bashing

darkhatter said: after awhile you start to miss all the good suse stuff I just wish they didn't go gnome. If I wanted to type in commands I would go back to my slackware system, yast does take a while to start but thats ok, cause I can configure my whole system using that, its also got better hardware support. you can stop with the suse 10.1 they openly said there was a problem and have provided fixes openSuse 10.2 should go back to normal. I must be going now you can continue your suse and novell bashing

SuSE still allows you to choose KDE if you want. . . and this thread was not intended for suse/novell bashing these are actually my two favorite distro's (next to DreamLinux) but it seems you can't post a simple thread about pro's and cons w/o some people feeling the need to bash anything that's not what they use.

Sorry I like to flame bait, but thats what alot of users are doing, and I know that they say they are supporting both kde and gnome, but kde has been missing the love I hope they make it look the same as they're gnome desktop. I really like the colors and the slab. if they make a kslab I'll be very happy.

I actually changed the look of kde (on suse) to look more like ubuntu. http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=suseorangesw3.png I don't think you can really compare suse kde to suse gnome because kde and gnome are pretty different but I reckon gnome on ubuntu is much nicer to use than gnome on suse but kde on suse is nicer to use than anything. Of course ubuntu has got this forum and there's nothing quite like it for suse.

I recently tried suse 10.1 64 bit and found problems with my usb sticks. It looked like it thought my printer was three sticks. Also sound was not ok. I had been using suse since 9.2 and had no problems at all. But from 10 it's broke (my opinion). The move away from YASt and you is disasterous as an update during install used to work very well and now it does not at all and a 'handling' has to be done by the user to get the updates working at all. The nvidia driver no longer gets installed thru you either.All in all the usability has gone backwards. Even though it is still a very nice distro i need my usb sticks working. I tired the 32 bit version and eventually went back to suse 10.0 and found problems with my sound has arisen so I decided to try kubuntu as it went on my laptop without a problem and so far so good.:-\"

Both distros are cool, but i like Ubuntu more, the community is much nicer, and I had less less less problems with Ubuntu in a scale of 1 to 10, SUSE:8 Ubuntu:9.5 :)(note: that is my own personal opinion as i said SUSE is also good, My first distro ;) )

As a new convert to Linux I played with both open suse 10.1 and Ubuntu before settling on one. Out of the box Suse was nicer. Most stuff that I wanted was there and worked with my hardware (compaq v3000), but the package manager was broken and I wasn't able to get it to work by following the how-to's. Ubuntu was a bit more work to get working with my hardware and set-up the way I wanted, but anytime I needed help, I found it on the Ubuntu forums or in the community documentation. This is the main reason I settled on Ubuntu. These are an excellent resource and I just want to thank all those that contribute.

Each distro has it's flaws, and I think Suse has many more than Ubuntu.

Suse issues: Packages aren't up to date. They're still using Gnome 2.12 My wireless card driver (rtl8180) isn't included by default, even the opensource version YaST Totem/Banshee crippled by lack of gstreamer plugins, a pain to get working Too many applications for the same functions, bloat... (firefox, seamonkey, links, konqueror and epiphany on a default install)

Pluses: Prettiest Linux desktop out there Good choice of applications (f-spot, banshee, network-manager) Decently stable

I look forward to trying out 10.2 though. Some day I hope to make the switch to Suse from Ubuntu, but they need some work. I'd be willing to help offer suggestions and file bug reports, but the community seems dead. Nobody in the IRC channel, no real community forums, and they're nothing compared to Ubuntu's... etc.

Here is my opinion on the subject matter, Suse can't make up it's mind. First Suse was Slackware based, then I assume the Suse team didn't have enough skills to maintain it's slackish nature so they moved on to an RPM based system, which is pretty much obsolete. Yeah there is Fedora but whoo hoo, who cares. They might as well change to a debian base and utilize the apt packaging system which is a superior packaging system to RPM, and jump on the band wagon with Ubuntu. I have recently migrated from Slackware to Ubuntu, in all honesty Slackware is a superior distro when it comes to stability, security and speed, but Ubuntu is far superior to Suse. Ubuntu is a very good project but I hope they don't follow the route of Red Hat or venture too far from it's debian ancestor.

so they moved on to an RPM based system, which is pretty much obsolete. wakey wakey! time for you to get in touch with reality.

sl_4ck i'm sorry, but given what youve said there, its clear that he need to wise up....a lot.

Let me get something clear. First of all the first thing I mentioned is that this is only my OPINION. Secondly, RPM packages, which by the way was developed by Red Hat, hence the "red hat package management", is no longer active in the Linux world. Yes RPM is being managed elsewhere but technically it is obsolete, just as red hat is obsolete. I also mentioned Fedora, which is pretty much a few of the die hard developers who didn't want to sink with the ship when red hat plummeted to ends doom. So I suggest you do your research. Make sure you practice your kung fu before stepping into the ring, cause you might get chewed up.

sl_4ck i would stop digging if i were you.

Very well Mr. Dark Roast, you win.

package management is not a good reason to switch, but you must be right cause Debian and Ubuntu are the masters of the world. I'm going to uninstall my Suse and install the better O.S. because package management is all that matters.

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

Honestly it really doesn't matter what distro one chooses. They are all running some version of the Linux kernel. It's all about preference and the type of features and functions you are looking for in a distro. Any distro can be made to do anything you want it to, if you take the time to configure it. Also, I say AGAIN, for those that are hard of hearing or "reading" in this case, that this is mearly my opinion. And another thing, package management plays a big role when selecting a distribution. It can save you alot of time, pain and suffering when making sure all your dependencies are met for what ever you are trying to install or configure on your system. As for myself it really doesn't matter, I am coming from a Slackware users point of view where you actually have to read to find what dependencies are needed for installing packages or compiling from tarballs. No packaging system will ever compete with compiling from source. Again this is just my opinion. I have to keep stressing this because some newbs that think they no so much of everything, really don't know too much of anything. I have been a Linux user since 1997 and have tried many different "flavors". The End.

I personally am somewhat of a linux newbie, having used linux for only about 4 monthst now. My first experience with linux was PCLinuxOS running it live. I liked it and so i researched for a few months to determine which distro would be for me. I ended up buying SUSE 10.1 (because I wanted the support that came with the bought version, but i never ended up needing it lol). I found it to be a great distro and it was easy for me to switch from xp to SUSE. Granted I had to do some tweaking, mostly for my ipw 3945 card but all was easy and quickly done. after a while I read up on Ubuntu 6.06 and decided to give it a try. I found it also to be a great disto. To me they are pretty close to equal in most aspects.

Pros/Cons of both in my opinion:

SUSE Pros: Yast – easy to use and a great tool for configuring things Multimedia – pretty good support for multimedia but still not the best of all the distros Professional – SUSE has a very professional feel to it. OPTIONS!!! - options for apps, software, etc. are a great advantage of SUSE Good community support OOo Novell edition is very good Good support for laptops can have KDE and/or GNOME installed

Cons: Yast – slow and buggy. Too many programs installed on base system (unless you used expert software install whhen installin the system) Not the fastest distro I've tried

UBUNTU Pros: Smooth and fast Easy to use... not much configuration needed. Wifi worked OOTB not bloated with software Great community support

Cons: Multimedia support isnt alll that good Not the greatest variety of software comes OOTB but the software it comes with is good Doesnt have the professional feel. No program similar to Yast (not that big of a deal though) Just GNOME (but not that bad since there is Kubuntu)

I switched back to SUSE because of the more professional feel and because I want to learn more on it since 10.2 is on its way which Im having high expectations for. I feel that at the time 10.2 comes out it will be the best distro there is (at that time). As for the server aspects of both... I dont have anything to say since I dont have a need for it. I just simply need it for my laptop.

But all in all.... I cant really say one is better than the other.... they both just have theyre pros and cons. But I do say that they are the 2 best distros I have tried thus far.

But as for yast... this may have changed since OpenSUSE just came out with 10.1 remastered this week. Im just waiting till the DVD iso comes out next week to download it. (dont like the multiple CDs)

The professional look & feel is what I miss in ubuntu. Just look at SUSE 10.1 splash screen, suse's Open Office, SUSE`s helix banshee etc.

Ubuntu is my favorite distro because its easier to use, faster, but SUSE is far more professional.

hizaguchi said: I thought Suse was better than Ubuntu in every way... except that the package system absolutely sucks. And that is enough to kill it for me. I couldn't install alot of my favorite software without tracking down extra repositories, and the drivers for about half of my hardware were even missing.

Personally, I think they should just switch completely to apt (even apt for rpm). If they did that, and improved their package collection the way a huge company like Novell is capable of, they'd have the best desktop distro around.

I agree with this 100%. I have been using Linux for several years -- both on workstations for my work and on my home desktop system and I have used (Open)Suse for several years and Ubuntu since Dapper came out.

Productivity is simply much bigger with Suse, many little things that make your work easier, many things that *just work* but are broken in Ubuntu. I also had more success with my hardware and different PCs under Suse, but this is probably just episodic evidence.

I find it a bit problematic that nearly all reviews of distros on the web or in magazines are extremely eye-candy centered. Most just produce screenshots and compare just a few surface features. But what makes a distro really useful are often the little details under the surface. My impression is that Suse is still ahead in this area, though Ubuntu is catching up fast (I have observed the progress from Badger to Dapper and if they continue this, the situation might change ... Suse progress seems to be a bit less speedy).

Most of this does not affect the average desktop user that mainly does web surfing, email etc. but if you depend on the details to be right or Apache configuration to be quick and easy, Suse is much more of a help.

The package system of Suse on the other hand sucks so much that I have still switched to Ubuntu on my main PC.

I'll probably buy a new computer in the next month or two and then I will have to re-consider my choice: Suse or Ubuntu. I still am not entirely sure yet.

Suse vs ubuntu....

It is so hard to compare distros. They come out so often and there are so many of them. To really get a feel for a distro you really have to use it for more than the 3 hours it takes to write a review. I liked suse when I used it. I like ubuntu now. I guess that doesn't really answer your question.:-k

I believe the package manager does make the distro. apt is extremely easy to use, and I picked up the command line syntax in a few days. I'm liking apt in Edgy because whenever I remove a package I get a message "The package XYZ is no longer needed on this system, please type apt-get autoremove to remove this package." This further reduces bloat.

As I said earlier, and many others have said, Suse is far more professional compared to Ubuntu. Compare Ubuntu's Human icon with Suse's Industrial theme. Also compare bootsplashes, gdm themes, and gtk/metacity themes. Suse wins hands down. Suse 10.2 beta 1 will be released on the 26th, I suggest everyone check it out. I'm hoping they removed a lot of the unneeded bloat in this release. A default install shouldn't have as much as they include.

I tried Suse 10.1 for a month in gnome and a month in KDE.. Gnome in Suse looks HORRID, KDE is not all that bad, and it actually pretty nice looking.

Yast is pathetic, broken, buggy and unreliable. RPM's are a pain with constant failed dependency's

It takes about 2 to 3 hours to install Suse with the online update searching for the server for 45 minutes, then loading the server for 45 minutes then downloading the patches for 45 minutes.

Yum.... YIKES

Once you get Suse installed and use SMART instead it's pretty usable for KDE. Gnome just flat out looks bad in Suse

I'll give 10.2 a whirl when it's released

Last version of SuSE I used was 9.1. Yast had a hard time resolving dependences. I couldn't get the programs I wanted installed. To be honest I don't think I was ready for linux yet. I've run into similar problems with ubuntu but I've just had more patience.

Has anyone tried OpenSUSE 10.2 beta yet? I have 10.1 and like it a lot. I dont see why some say yast is bad, yast is awesome. Also, with the 64 bit version, all the 32 bit libraries are also included so you can still run apps that dont have a 64 bit version.

jinx099 said: Has anyone tried OpenSUSE 10.2 beta yet? I have 10.1 and like it a lot. I dont see why some say yast is bad, yast is awesome. Also, with the 64 bit version, all the 32 bit libraries are also included so you can still run apps that dont have a 64 bit version.

welcome to the ubuntu forum, all other distro are bloated or buggy, I'm also a user that has good experience with kde

I just recently installed Ubuntu 6.10 edgy on a test machine. I've been using SuSE for years as my primary OS. Currently all of my busines desktops, as well as my personal home computers are running SuSE 10.0.

I love SuSE and KDE. In my opinion, the best thing about SuSE is YaST. Centralized gui administration for some of the more complicated tasks just makes sense to me. Sure you can accomplish everything that YaST does through command line and config files, but in this day and age, why (unless that's what you prefer)? I've been through all that back in the mid '90's with Red Hat and other distro's. If you prefer using the command line and config files method, then you can do that with SuSE also. It's all about choice and SuSE has the best of both worlds.

After using Ubuntu for a few days now, I must say that I do like it. I haven't tried using Gnome in years. I like this version of Gnome. It's clean, quick and somewhat customizable. I installed the KDE desktop (kubuntu) and gave that a try. In my opinion Kubuntu has a long way to go to catch up to SuSE in this area. Kubuntu doesn't seem as polished. I'll stick with Gnome when using Ubuntu. I don't think I'll be switching my business production computers over to Gnome or Ubuntu at this point though.

Linux/Gnu is all about choice. In my opinion if you want to use KDE, then SuSE is definitely the way to go. YaST is a real time saver and it makes administration much easier. If you want to use the Gnome desktop, then Ubuntu is the way to go. Synaptic package manager is nice. I'd like to see something similar to YaST in Ubuntu. Is anything like that under development?

I've noticed quite a few people in this thread stating openSUSE is bloated. The whole thing about bloat is something I see a lot in relation to all kinds of operating systems and applications and seems often to indicate that the user suffers from compulsive clicking syndrome combined with an inability to read a short text and make a decision. ;) One of openSUSE's strengths is that the install gui allows you to be as involved or uninvolved as you like at every stage of the install. If you like you can micro-manage package selection in a way that didn't seem possible to me with the Ubuntu gui installer. You can make a minimal graphical install and use choose Window Maker and select your apps carefully and have a relatively tiny distro (tiny HDD space not tiny capabilty) or go crazy and choose a whole range of desktop environments and window managers and install everything and make some ridiculously huge install. I have in the past installed Ubuntu Dapper on the same laptop and there was no advantage in speed. Ubuntu used more RAM (a basic Debian Etch/Gnome install used slightly less than openSUSE but probably the difference was Debian failed to detect my wi-fi adapter and load an appropriate driver module) and was not noticeably quicker or slower in any routine task. YaST is vastly superior to Debian/Ubuntu's approach to controlling the OS and hardware, though the UCC/gcontrol project looks like going some way to fixing this. The real advantage Ubuntu had was nicely working package management, but since a few weeks ago openSUSE has fixed those problems with 10.1 and issued a re-mastered distro, and anyway with Smart package manager even the old one could be made to work brilliantly (if you had the patience of a saint or a piece of carpet to chew on while you get the default mess straightened out). So I'm using openSUSE 10.1 remastered but also downloading Kubuntu 6.10 because it looks so promising and it will be nice to be able to compare Gnome vs KDE and Kubuntu vs Suse on identical hardware. I think the best desktop linux distros I've tried are Ubuntu, openSUSE and PCLinuxOS. They all seem way ahead of everything else but I feel that the gui config tools in openSUSE are the easily the best. Of course they're not strictly necessary but if you're going to have gui tools why not have great ones?

A few people have found openSUSE very slow. This can be due to Beagle indexing. It's best to de-select it during install (sually it's installed by default) and add it later and then force it to do its first complete index at a time you don't need your PC. This is a Beagle issue not an openSUSE one as far as I can tell.

I prefer Ubuntu over openSuse, but that is mostly because I am just starting to exclusively use Linux machines. I originally tried Ubuntu and then tried to use openSuse, but trying openSuse felt similar to trying to run before I could walk, meaning I was trying a more advanced operating system before I learned the Linux basics. Ubuntu seems to be a great operating system that does help one learn the linux basics whereas openSuse seems to be for more experienced linux users, at least in my opinion. My dad uses openSuse, so I'm learning Ubuntu and openSuse at the same time.

Regardless of whether or not I am on an Ubuntu forum, openSUSE rocks and I have had 10.2 Beta1 installed for 2 weeks and am currently waiting for the Beta2 to be ready for download, sometime today 9th November :D.

Edgy rocks like crazy too but the point of Linux is choice and I like different things about different distros... :D

Besides... no offence I love Ubuntu BUT when 'openSUSE' was just 'SUSE' and it was just 8.1, it was my first EVER introduction to Linux of ANY sort... and that is the distro that got me into it from the start. It was a cold start, but once I grasped the whole Richard Stallman angle on things AND watched "Revolution OS" and "The Code, Linux" movies, that was it!!.

Now I love it to bits... unfortunately I am doing some work in 'Pinncle Studio 10.7' (Video Editing) and HAVE to use Win for that, but I hope to port over to a capable Linux app in time - Cinelerra was just too much grief to get working, but Editing is ALL I intend using wInd0z3 for!!

To be honest I find SuSE to be the only big innovators in the desktop linux distro field. They've brought us Compiz, and a lot of things on the SuSE OS are modified. I really enjoyed using it, but the RPM backend rather than aptitude/debs/etc, as well as the TERRIBLE menus (Applications Places Desktop, not right-click) are what really drove me away.

If I could really figure out the whole RPM thing, and how to fix up those menus, I'd probably switch. But I'm getting an iMac soon so if I DID switch it'd only be for up until then. ;)

I finished my download of Kubuntu 6.10 DVD and installed it yesterday alongside openSUSE. It's really nice but I'm not sure I can see any really important area where Kubuntu/Ubuntu has a big advantage. Traditional problem areas like hardware detection and support are equally good, disk mounting of other OS's partitions and external devices and drives is perfect with both, wireless support is at the same level of brilliance/flakiness...attitude to this depends on if you're arriving from Windows or a less complete linux distro ;) Laptop support (power management,cpu throttling etc.) is also indistinguishable between the 2 distros. I'm comparing openSUSE/Gnome with (K)ubuntu/KDE which I guess is a turnaround from how thngs used to be. I find Gnome with YaST is easier to use than any debian based distro with any tools. Basically I'd be happy with either of these and it's great to have a range of high quality distros to choose from. If I was installing for someone else I'd possibly choose Kubuntu because adding/enabling plf and multiverse repositories to apt is a lot quicker than setting up Smart or a bunch of YaST repositories. Another advantage Kubuntu had for me is that there are fast debian/ubuntu mirrors all over the world whereas openSUSE is heavily Euro-centric; there are global Novell mirrors but not so many and not all complete and almost all the good 3rd party repos are Euro. I'm in S.E. Asia atm and updating/adding applications to Kubuntu has been much quicker than with openSUSE.

I have used Suse for years (up to 10.0) and I have used Ubuntu for more than a year (starting with pre-Dapper).

Now I had to do a couple of things in Ubuntu that I have done previously in Suse and I am *extremely* disappointed with Ubuntu. Ubuntu somehow is hyped as being "easy" and for beginners, but all these things were *much* more complicated under Ubuntu: figuring out which services are being started at boot time; configuring a wireless network device; setting up Apache; and several other things:

All this was a matter of a few mouseclicks in Yast in Suse.

For Ubuntu it is hard to figure out how to do these things at all, many things need manual command line hacking, editing of config files. Often one has to browse through endless wiki articles that tell to mess with kernel modules, update from non-standard repositories, often give contradicting instructions.

Many things work right out of the box under Suse and need hacking under Ubuntu. Again, command line hacking or worse, not going into a simple GUI like under Suse.

Even though the apt-based package management is obviously much better under Ubuntu, packages are also frustrating, having conflicts or bugs for months (some bugs I filed have lived through all of Dapper and now are still in Edgy).

There are other issues, but all this is enough that I will give up on Ubuntu when I get my new hardware. I have learned that while Ubuntu is nice distro, it is hyped as an "easy" and "beginner-compatible" distro which it is definitely not as soon as you need to do anything more but the most trivial things.

I use both suse and ubuntu. For someone like me who just moved to linux 2 days ago, i find suse to be better and more user friendly. It has tutorial that got me up to speed, and it has most of programs i need. But suse is very slow at start up and in the browsing as well compared to ubuntu, especially the suse 10 and 10.1. i had hard time getting ubuntu installed on my pc.

I tried openSuSe 10.1 & sled 10 and I really did not like them. I wanted to, they look nice and are ready out of the box. I think they have a long way to go on their Gnome desktop. Their KDE looks great, but I don't like KDE. This forum keeps me in Ubuntu for a number of reasons, along with most everything as far as how things are set up and run. Ubuntu seems easier to learn in my opinion. I also thought the setup for SLED 10 was oddly laid out. It was like Vista's start menu, but when you wanted more programs you got something that looked like a control panal? I really didn't want to mess with that.

But, if Ubuntu wasn't around and I needed Linux for an office environment and they Novel had not signed a blood contract with the devil :twisted: (joking! sortuv) Sure I would use SuSe in some form.

there is always MEPIS ... if looking for a nice kde :)

Anyone here use MEPIS? I assume you do verby. How do you like it? I was thinking of giving it a try. I tries SuSE yesterday and was reminded of some of the reasons I don't really care for RPM distros. Maybe I'll give SuSE another go someday though. I'm looking for another distro to run next to Ubuntu on my laptop b/c I'd like to get an issue with my headphones resolved and I heard that some hardware worked out of the box in SuSE that didn't work well with Ubuntu. This wasn't the case with me. Actually SuSE (openSuSE 10.1) happened to be worse in the hardware detection dept for me.

daniel2501 said: Anyone here use MEPIS? I assume you do verby. How do you like it? I was thinking of giving it a try. I tries SuSE yesterday and was reminded of some of the reasons I don't really care for RPM distros. Maybe I'll give SuSE another go someday though. I'm looking for another distro to run next to Ubuntu on my laptop b/c I'd like to get an issue with my headphones resolved and I heard that some hardware worked out of the box in SuSE that didn't work well with Ubuntu. This wasn't the case with me. Actually SuSE (openSuSE 10.1) happened to be worse in the hardware detection dept for me.

I gave it a spin. It was nothing special. I can't say I didn't like it. I just like Gnome better.

personally, suse was the first linux distro i ever tried. still have the store bought version of personal 8.2. SUCKS!!

i've tried at least one variation of suse all the way to where it's at now. still SUCKS!!

not even close competion between suse and ubuntu.

can't get mepis to install on any of my 7 boxes!

now using zenwalk 4.0. still have 3.0 on 5 of the machines. zenwalk rulez!!

Mepis has really worked well for me. I've never had any problems installing it on any machine I've tried. The same can be said about Ubuntu 6.06 but thats just me. As far as suse goes I could not give a true statement as to the performance of that distro. I would not use it because of the damage that Novell is doing to linux. And before anybody makes a comment Novell and Suse are together in this. Eddie

just trying mepis (as I type) looks ok... Well, my wifes pc runns ubuntu for about 3 weeks and i got kind of used to it. moving from winxp i thought that i'll like more kde than gnome, so i installed mepis on my pc. i have to admit i kind of miss ubuntu... simplicity. don't get me wrong mepis is a nice distro, but i don't really need all those menus and setups etc. will probably install ubuntu on my pc as well.

Both Distributions are linux, We should support them all. However, Ubuntu seems to work much better with all the laptops I have, in general. Especially with the hardware that generally has a lack in Linux support (IE ATI).

I've used ubuntu for the past 6 months and it guided me through the world of linux. I learned new things, gained control over my computer, made new friends, etc. In the past times, I heard rumour that say that ubuntu is too over-rated. What I want from an OS is: Stability, easy to use (well, this is not the most important), control (this is why I give up to win), easy to update and install software, easy to configure and the list can continue ... The question is, is Suse better than Ubuntu at these things? I mean ... opensuse. Is gentoo a good distribution? (I'd love to have anything on the bleeding edge, though this one is a little hard to configure :D). Pls help, as you can see, I don't even know what I want 8)

Move to Cafe.

I wouldnt say Ubuntu is better than Suse , its different.

Suse is a Distro that has it all including the Kitchen sink. And of all the Distros that do it all , I believe it does it the best.

Ubuntu is lean , and of the Distros that do it the Weight Watchers way ,I believe Ubuntu is the best.

FuzZy2006 said: I've used ubuntu for the past 6 months and it guided me through the world of linux. I learned new things, gained control over my computer, made new friends, etc. In the past times, I heard rumour that say that ubuntu is too over-rated. What I want from an OS is: Stability, easy to use (well, this is not the most important), control (this is why I give up to win), easy to update and install software, easy to configure and the list can continue ... The question is, is Suse better than Ubuntu at these things? I mean ... opensuse. Is gentoo a good distribution? (I'd love to have anything on the bleeding edge, though this one is a little hard to configure :D). Pls help, as you can see, I don't even know what I want 8)It seems to me, when comparing linux os's, ease of use translates mainly into support, which therefore translates into community. UBUNTU has them all beat in that respect.

yeah, I can say that these forums helped me to learn linux more than any other manual that i've read. thanx to all the guys who helped me by now - i've got no unsolved pb.

It's a rather hard task to answer that. SuSE is a lot different in its approach. It offers everything (like already mentioned) while Ubuntu is very streamlined and slim.

If you want a distribution with which you can control everything by yourself right from the source you will have lots of fun trying out and using Arch Linux. I would personally pre-rate it over Gentoo without having ever used any of which.

FuzZy2006 said: I've used ubuntu for the past 6 months and it guided me through the world of linux. I learned new things, gained control over my computer, made new friends, etc. In the past times, I heard rumour that say that ubuntu is too over-rated. What I want from an OS is: Stability, easy to use (well, this is not the most important), control (this is why I give up to win), easy to update and install software, easy to configure and the list can continue ... The question is, is Suse better than Ubuntu at these things? I mean ... opensuse. Is gentoo a good distribution? (I'd love to have anything on the bleeding edge, though this one is a little hard to configure :D). Pls help, as you can see, I don't even know what I want 8)

Ubuntu has Apt-Get (as its built on Debian) you will be hard pressed to find an easier to use install system.

Gentoo gives you the most control, but it takes ages to load, and whenever you install something you must compile it from source. (this does mean that everything work very efficiently)

just my $0.02 (Ubuntu ftw)

Yes, Ubuntu is better than SUSE.

For one reason, and one reason only.

Ubuntu doesn't deal with Microsoft.

with whats been happening with novell and microsoft, i'de be hesitant to go with suse. i'de rather stick with a completely free open source distro until everything settles down.

Gaweph said: Ubuntu has Apt-Get (as its built on Debian) you will be hard pressed to find an easier to use install system.

Gentoo gives you the most control, but it takes ages to load, and whenever you install something you must compile it from source. (this does mean that everything work very efficiently)

just my $0.02 (Ubuntu ftw)

good point about Gentoo, thats why Sabayon is great, you can't beat the simplicity and effiency of Emerge. (I wish Ubuntu had Emerge).

Since this thread is really about the comparision contrast of a "Other OS" I will move this to the "Other OS Forum"

I have used:

• Fedora
• SuSE
• Gentoo
• Damn Small Linux
• Zenwalk

They all have their place. To ask which is better is is sort of the wrong question. Most business that use Linux use Red Hat or SuSE. Damn Small is excellent for really old equipment, as is Puppy.

I've used most of the top 10 (as by Distrowatch), and I have Ubuntu installed on almost 15 computers now. THAT should tell you my opinion of which one I prefer. I have DSL on one computer; An older 133 Mhz Packard Bell. Xubuntu was just a bit too much for it.

My 'first' was Fedora.

Ubuntu, in my opinion, will eventually dominate the Linux world. Mark Shuttleworth seems to have the goal, and I think he's likely to make it happen. I intend on having a job in IT, and hopefully centered around Linux support. I'm focusing on Ubuntu because I think it will eventually become the top used distribution, and possibly a competative desktop to Windows.

FuzZy2006 said: I've used ubuntu for the past 6 months and it guided me through the world of linux. I learned new things, gained control over my computer, made new friends, etc. In the past times, I heard rumour that say that ubuntu is too over-rated. What I want from an OS is: Stability, easy to use (well, this is not the most important), control (this is why I give up to win), easy to update and install software, easy to configure and the list can continue ... The question is, is Suse better than Ubuntu at these things? I mean ... opensuse. Is gentoo a good distribution? (I'd love to have anything on the bleeding edge, though this one is a little hard to configure :D). Pls help, as you can see, I don't even know what I want 8)

SUSE is a great distro. It's the one I started with and I stuck with from from 9.1 to 10.0.

mp3's play out of the box, which is great, but I never got encrypted DVD's, windows media formats, or the ability to rip cd's working properly in SUSE, all of which things I would like to do, and all of which I set up quickly and with no problems in Ubuntu, which does none of those out of the box.

I think this comes down to package management, where Ubuntu beats SUSE hands down, and support, (like others have said, community and such) where Ubuntu wins again.

Ubuntu is alot less bloated, but there's an insane amount of software waiting in the repositories that's very easy to install, so there's still plenty to play with, although you would be screwed if you weren't on the Internet.

As much as I like it and enjoyed using it, I see no reason to go back to SUSE when I can use Ubuntu.

in my experience SuSE and Ubuntu are the absolute best distros for laptop support, and they've always seemed equal to me, once you work out packaging bugs in SuSE 10.1, (10.2 looks promising) and what I've read has almost always agreed with this statement, however what's nice to one is trash to another and vise versa, I like suse for it's professional feel and out of the box compatibilty with all codecs I use (mp3, DVD, etc.) and Java, I like ubuntu for these forums that make it easy to find out how to add all that and so much more, they're both great distro's thanks for all of your oppinions, Glad to hear so much interest in one of my favorites, as far as mepis, it's good because it's linux but in my oppinion it is one of the ugliest, unpolished, somewhat childish looking distros i've ever seen, just my oppinion :-) second least favourite to nubuntu (tho it spreads form ubuntu. . . it's just not the same)

My nephew broke me in on Red Hat back when it was like 5 or 6 then i tried mandrake, then SuSE 8.2 up to 9.1 I must say it was a nice starting point for me to learn about linux. Once I tried Ubuntu and it setup things out of the box for me except the video I was happy as a kid at Christmas time. They are both good distros but I haven't used or tried SuSE since I have been using Ubuntu. Don't think I will be going back anytime soon. Especially with the MS involvement.

andlinux21, the quote you have at the bottom of your post i have seen bettered, "in a world without walls or fences, who needs windows or gates"

What happened to lindows? It was very popular during 2003. I tried Suse linux entreprise 10. The truth is i found it very slow,even slower than windows, so i changed to ubuntu

Lindows got sued by M$ for the name, M$ ended up paying lindows about 24 mil I think in compensation, all Lindows had to do was change their name and it is now Linspire

Lindows also had to remove some windows media files and so forth also.

still linspire is dead. i dont hear of it anymore.

Well they STILL think they are the greatest thing since linux! :D

lol even fedora is more known to ppl than linspire

Just a question. Is it easy to have up-to-date versions of programs in openSUSE? The inability to do so really bugs me in Ubuntu...

Old Pink said: Yes, Ubuntu is better than SUSE.

For one reason, and one reason only.

Ubuntu doesn't deal with Microsoft.

That would have been my answer.

In my experience (limited) Ubuntu is better than SUSE for one reason only.

I couldn't get Suse to boot into X. Admittedly thats more ignorance on my part, but still. It just wouldn't play nicely for me. Took about 3 hrs to install too.

merging this thread here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1847635#post1847635

Castar said: Just a question. Is it easy to have up-to-date versions of programs in openSUSE? The inability to do so really bugs me in Ubuntu...

Yes, it's easy. Like Ubuntu there are official stable repositories full of all the usual stuff you need. There are also suse approved community repositories and lots of 3rd party ones too, specialising in different areas. You can find pretty much everything in latest or recent versions. The two most important repos are Packman and Guru. There will always be the odd thing you need to compile from source but not much and not too often. If you want to investigate further I'd suggest go to some of the suse forums and check out the howto sections on smart package manager and repositories. Make sure you use the latest version of openSuse 10.1 (it was remastered to solve package management problems) or use the latest 10.2 beta which is now approved for official 10.2 release.

openSUSE 10.2 is out.

Not many people seem to care about the Novell-Microsoft deal. OpenSuse had just passed Ubuntu on Distrowatch. I believe people are tired of using outdated software in Ubuntu 6.06.

Suse never works well for me... Ubuntu always works brilliant though :cool:!

bensexson said: This is of course going to be an opinion but I like the way Ubuntu is setup better. I like that the root account is disabled and I just sudo for everything. Really though it is mainly because I put alot of effort to get Ubuntu working the way I like it. I have a pretty good feel for the way things work with Debian/Ubuntu and SuSE is enough different I just doesn't "feel" right. I am generally impressed with SuSE. If Debian and Ubuntu disappeared I would most likely move to OpenSuSE.

I started with SuSe (9.1 Personal, single CD) first so my impression was just the opposite. While I like both distros, I prefer the root acct to sudo and find Debian and GNOME awkward since I started with KDE and the great YAST graphical utils.

Now that I have managed to get both SuSe 9.1 and Ubuntu 6.10 on my PC along with it's original ME which I never bother to run anymore, I find myself using Ubuntu most often. I have both configured with KDE-look wallpaper photos and transparent bottom taskbar. Fortunately, I don't know enough terminal commands to have a problem switching to a Debian based system at this point. I think the support forums and documentation of both are better than for Windows.

I'm impressed with the flawless dial-up updates and software installs I've gotten so far in Ubuntu, though most of what I'm downloading seems to be KDE stuff (maybe I should have started with Kubuntu) but I like GNOME too. My SuSe 9.1 never updated well via dial-up and is no longer a supported distro. I'd like to try OpenSuse 10.1 but I'm balking at the hassle of six CDs and of course some expense to buy them. The frequent, single live CD approach suits me, though I haven't tried an upgrade yet.

Ubuntu 6.10 packs a lot into a single CD including Firefox 2 and the latest OpenOfc. Ubuntu probably has a better selection of open software, but I haven't spent much time with SuSe since the OpenSuSe project took off.

Still, I'd recommend SuSe for the timid just switching from Windows unless they are financially strapped. Ubuntu seems to be more for hard core UNIX fans though it also has a polished GUI desktop and many utils any idiot can use. If you spend more time under the hood in a terminal window, go with Ubuntu (assuming you don't find sudo awkward as I do).

If you are dial-up, go with Open SuSe or Kubuntu since I couldn't get any GNOME GUI utils to see or use my external serial full modem. I had to run PPP config from a terminal window and download KPPP. A lot of the software seems to be for KDE as well.

Otherwise, my experience with Ubuntu and SuSe have been quite enjoyable with easy installs and configuration even for a beginner. It is a tough choice. Both have package managers for sw installation. RPMs seem more common than DEBs for the stuff I use, but Apt/Synaptic can install either. Both distros are excellent and popular...no clear leader IMHO. That's why I'm running both.

I agree FLPCGuy, I am running openSUSE 10.2 x86_64 on my desktop and Kubuntu 6.10 Edgy on my x86 laptop. I love openSUSE, especially now that they have fixed YaST and it's updater, works like a charm, but Kubuntu 6.10 works great on my Dell Inspiron 8200 laptop, so I'll keep both. After all, nothing keeps you from running more than one *Nix distro LOL

Slammer64 said: ... Kubuntu 6.10 works great on my Dell Inspiron 8200 laptop,....

Any trouble with wireless in Ubuntu? I'm hoping to get a laptop next, but I want to make sure the hardware will work with Linux, I don't think I'll spend the money to run that memory hog Vista.

I have gone back and forth for days now on whether to run openSuse 10.2 or Ubuntu 6.10 on my Latitude D620. What it comes down to for me is just lack of documentation. Ubuntu blows other distros out of the water when it comes to how-to's on setting up laptop features (stupid dell wireless card). I also think it is much easier to customize than Suse. This is just from my own experiences. I think that ubuntuforums.org is what keeps me on ubuntu. If openSuse had a forum (suseforums.net doesnt even compare) as active, helpful, and with users who push development (trying new features, etc) than I would use it in a heartbeat, till then "Hello Ubuntu." :D

Hello!

Any trouble with wireless in Ubuntu? I'm hoping to get a laptop next, but I want to make sure the hardware will work with Linux, I don't think I'll spend the money to run that memory hog Vista.

Well, then to be 100% sure, I guess you should buy from either of these:

1. http://shafetech.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=35
2. http://system76.com/index.php/cPath/1

Good Luck!

jstad said: I have gone back and forth for days now on whether to run openSuse 10.2 or Ubuntu 6.10 on my Latitude D620. What it comes down to for me is just lack of documentation. Ubuntu blows other distros out of the water when it comes to how-to's on setting up laptop features (stupid dell wireless card). I also think it is much easier to customize than Suse. This is just from my own experiences. I think that ubuntuforums.org is what keeps me on ubuntu. If openSuse had a forum (suseforums.net doesnt even compare) as active, helpful, and with users who push development (trying new features, etc) than I would use it in a heartbeat, till then "Hello Ubuntu." :D

Maybe the best Suse online community is here:

SuSE Linux SupportForums

Great howtos, wiki, faq, forums, users, contributors.

well i've never tried suse but am developing interest in it and would like to use it but can't cause over here i only have a gprs connection that only works on my phone and not on my pc. would anyone be so kind to post me a stable release of it preferably a dvd version thanks(merry christmas everyone)

http://download.opensuse.org/

that will bring you to the download page, The distro is 5 cds with a extra cd that has non oss programs on it.

http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/10.2/iso/dvd/openSUSE-10.2-GM-DVD-i386.iso

thats a link to the dvd which contains everything.

thanks as much as i would love to download it myself my gprs connection isn't capable of it

darkhatter said: http://download.opensuse.org/

that will bring you to the download page, The distro is 5 cds with a extra cd that has non oss programs on it.

http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/10.2/iso/dvd/openSUSE-10.2-GM-DVD-i386.iso

thats a link to the dvd which contains everything.

And IF you decide to download the DVD version, you will realize that it was not 1 .iso DVD file, but 5 .iso CD files (with capacity 600MB each)!!! @#$^%&@#$

Thanks.

ok so i installed suse 10.2 on the custom box in my sig (it's actually my main pc, I'm nice enough to let the whole family use the better, sadly I have to keep ms on that b/c my over conservative, tight *, afraid of change step father won't change because anything free can't be as good) any way, IMO it Kicks the S* outta kubuntu (let the flamewar begin :lolflag: ) there's a wonderful gui for everything, and i mean everything, if you want to set up xgl/compiz, there's even a gui for that, (i went the route of nvidia/beryl with no xgl, and nvidia's built in thing, and still, I only had to use the cli for about 4 lines) and it's soooo much mor epolished, it feels snappier, the forums aren't at all unfriendly, maybe slightly slower, but still VERY helpful, if novell started advertising or getting the word out I wouldn't be suprised to see this rated as the #1 distro above ubuntu, I dont understand over half the hype around ubuntu personally, it doesn't seem any better than most os's out there, nothing truly innovative about it, just a WONDERFUL community, (admittedly it counts for alot) but as far as the actual OS goes, openSUSE 10.2 is my os of choice, it just works, it's beautiful I LOVE that new menu (especially now that I know it's skinnable) (k)ubuntu has a LOONNGGGG way to go in feisty to win me back, if it's even possible

I have to admit openSUSE's KDE blows Kubuntu any time. Snappier and more polished; kickoff by default... It is a great KDE distro. I am not sure how good it's gnome is, but ubuntu's is much more polished IMO.

SuSE Gnome owns just as much as its KDE

That's nice to know :) . I suppose they do have Ximian doing the main work so it should be one of the best Gnomes out there.

I haven't seen SuSe 10.2 yet but I really liked KDE on 9.1 so I assumed Kubuntu would be equal to or better than GNOME on Ubuntu. All my experience was with KDE until Ubuntu. I just tried Kubuntu (64-bit) on a new machine I'm building and I was quite disappointed. Even MEPIS 6.06 was a bit easier to use, but still not as good as my old SuSe 9.1. I actually prefer SuSe 9.1 (sadly, no longer supported) to Kubuntu, especially when you consider the ease and functionality of Yast.

But I really like Ubuntu Edgy with GNOME, even though I've loaded a lot of KDE apps and libs to make it easier to use. I can't explain it, Ubuntu just suits me. Maybe it is just the right combination of a clean GUI, great software repositories, and a painless install. I'm hoping to try SuSe 10.2 soon, but expect I'll still spend more time using Ubuntu. Both are winners I'd recommend for most new or old Linux users (except hard core slackers, etc.). For me, Kubuntu just doesn't quite measure up to either yet.

<my2cents> Well my first ever foray into linux about 3 years ago was when a copy of Suse 9.3 was given to me to try on my old laptop. It installed nicely yet it had major issues getting the DVD/CD-RW to mount! (Turned out my laptop-a generic computer store built Targa AMD XP didnt have hardware that linux liked fullstop!) Needless to say I ended up getting a replacement laptop about 9 months after that, a good old Dell Inspiron 700m. This turns out to be very well supported in the linux world and so I returned to linux as an OS but this time I was put onto Warty. Ubuntu works well with my little Dell but despite constant attempts to fall in love with Gnome I just cant! I tried Kubuntu but it just isnt in the same league as my nice new install of openSUSE 10.2 I have never had such a faultless installation in the short time I have been mucking around with linux. I read that some people were having problems with the 2200 version wireless card...not me. My native resolution (1280x800) was configured by default (something that Ubuntu is YET to do despite constant requests from many people for it to do so!) On the whole Suse is a far more polished distro the I would probably recommend it to someone who wants to try linux for the first time over Ubuntu, but having said that Ubuntu is coming along in leaps and bounds, just a shame that the KDE side of things leave a lot to be desired at this point in time IMO. I will continue to delve into Ubuntu as I believe there is a lot of potential there and Suse has been around for a lot longer and I find that with a distro like Ubuntu (or Arch my other distro I choose to play around with!) I learn a LOT more about linux as an OS than just installing something and it just works ala Windows! For everyday usage though as I also need to run my business from my laptop I think I will have to stick with Suse as the main OS and use Ubuntu in a virtual machine. \\:D/ </my2cents>

I really must get the SuSe 10.2 CD set and try it. I assume the dial-up still works as well as it did back in 9.x versions. Once, SuSe even configured a Winmodem I had, automatically. I think it was an Intel or AT&T chipset from the late 1990's. No other Linux distro has ever done that for me.

As long as I can make my external serial modem work, I'm happy. KPPP is my most essential app and I run it from Gnome in Ubuntu Edgy. I don't like the uncontrollable (always on) default networking setup of Edgy which I had to configure manually anyway for dial-up and network apps like the firewall still didn't see my connection or my modem. I understand Dapper and Edgy really broke dial-up networking. I don't expect it to be fixed in Feisty or later so I'll probably go with SuSe as my next distro when I break Ubuntu beyond repair. I haven't been able to screw it up yet, but I've held off trying Beryl.

I miss the tiny plug icon in the tray that lets me do all my dial-up networking and configuration from one context menu. I think SuSe added even more stuff to it than basic KDE because I haven't seen it work quite the same on any other distro. Initial setup or making adjustments in Yast is very easy as well.

I hope Kubuntu eventually becomes the best Ubuntu package, but they have a very long way to go.

I initially tried OpenSuse 10.2 with default KDE which I hate btw. I found OpenSuse's KDE better than (K)Ubuntu's offering. Haven't tried GNOME is SuSE though.

Ubuntu is getting the control center in Feisty, now if I can just get Ubuntu developers to loose the nasty BROWN, add a programs menu like in SuSE (no the USP doesn't cut it for me) and few touch ups here and there and I think I be willing to stay with Ubuntu.

Overall I really like OpenSuSE 10.2 my first and favorite Linux distro...

Nemix77 said: I initially tried OpenSuse 10.2 with default KDE which I hate btw. I found OpenSuse's KDE better than (K)Ubuntu's offering. Haven't tried GNOME is SuSE though.

Ubuntu is getting the control center in Feisty, now if I can just get Ubuntu developers to loose the nasty BROWN, add a programs menu like in SuSE (no the USP doesn't cut it for me) and few touch ups here and there and I think I be willing to stay with Ubuntu.

Overall I really like OpenSuSE 10.2 my first and favorite Linux distro...

What's wrong with the apps menu, the location? I really like the Tan theme. Blue is so overused and hard on my eyes. I can't even focus on those blue LED's in older Pioneer stereo equipment. Pastels are the way to go, even pale blue or green but tan is more appropriate to the African theme since that is the predominant color I saw in Southern Africa. Try System, Preferences, Theme, Glider for a nice blue theme.

I agree a control center like Yast would be a welcome addition to Ubuntu. Under the GUI, I have no preference. SuSe has always worked well on my equipment and so has Ubuntu.

What do you think of having to use sudo in Ubuntu to gain root privileges?

FLPCGuy said: What's wrong with the apps menu, the location? I really like the Tan theme. Blue is so overused and hard on my eyes. I can't even focus on those blue LED's in older Pioneer stereo equipment. Pastels are the way to go, even pale blue or green but tan is more appropriate to the African theme since that is the predominant color I saw in Southern Africa. Try System, Preferences, Theme, Glider for a nice blue theme.

I agree a control center like Yast would be a welcome addition to Ubuntu. Under the GUI, I have no preference. SuSe has always worked well on my equipment and so has Ubuntu.

What do you think of having to use sudo in Ubuntu to gain root privileges?

Control center is nothing like yast. Yast is a set of tools made specifically by Suse that are different than the gnome control apps. Control center (which is no longer the default on fiesty, many people didn't like it so they changed back) is just a conglomeration of what is already in the system menu. It doesn't really add anything else.

I used SUSE 9 and considering that I did not have a choice I 'liked it'. However once I knew other distros (Mandriva, Ubuntu, Fedora, PCLOS) I completely discarded it as an option for me. It has outdated software and less hardware support than other distros. For example I loaded SUSE 10.1 in my new laptop and it did not even recognize my sound card! The GNOME version included was very old and it was very slow.

I would have given the next version of SUSE a shot but...considering Novell & Microsoft deal it is completely discarded.

igknighted said: Control center is nothing like yast. Yast is a set of tools made specifically by Suse that are different than the gnome control apps. Control center (which is no longer the default on fiesty, many people didn't like it so they changed back) is just a conglomeration of what is already in the system menu. It doesn't really add anything else.

Really, I was really looking forward to the control center in Feisty.

Any one testing Opensuse 10.3 alpha 1...

Nemix77 said: Really, I was really looking forward to the control center in Feisty.

Any one testing Opensuse 10.3 alpha 1...

If you want the control center you are able to activate it, however as I said above it just creates an extra step in getting to those apps inside, and doesn't add any extra functionality.

Yeah I know, the Control Center in Ubuntu is sorta like the Ubuntu System Panel. It doesn't add any functionality but it does make things more neat and looks better (possible customizable).

E.g.: XP Control Panel in XP mode and classic mode, eh? But thanks for pointing that out again.

:lolflag:

Ubuntu is way better in terms of hardware support, things like the buttons built into your keyboard work right away (you have to edit them in XModmap to make them work in Suse.) Also it's impossible to get Intel graphics running with i810 on Suse, your stuck with useing VESA or buying an Nvidia card.

I agree on the buttons but my Intel 915GM worked perfectly well with openSUSE 10.2. In Ubuntu, you have to manually install 915resolution to have it going in 1280x768. In openSUSE 915resolution is installed by default even though you still need to patch it in boot time.

ExplodingPickle.org said: Ubuntu is way better in terms of hardware support, things like the buttons built into your keyboard work right away (you have to edit them in XModmap to make them work in Suse.) Also it's impossible to get Intel graphics running with i810 on Suse, your stuck with useing VESA or buying an Nvidia card.

Not true. I've installed 3 laptops (Fujitsu Siemens P7010D, NEC Versa 3000 and Lenovo Y400) with Intel 855/915/945 respectively and all had perfectly functioning graphics/displays running openSuse with i810 immediately on finishing the install. That includes XGL/Compiz running with no problems. They all run beryl fine too, even the one with the 855 which is very low end. In each case xorg.conf has been perfect whereas in Ubuntu with the 945 the default xorg.conf takes no account of the display size, the refresh rate or the dpi, it only configures the resolution and the depth, so while it looks and functions fine generally, several applications (typically games with limited choice of display modes) could not display full screen until I ran sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg and then made several manual edits. When you install opensuse the final stage is the hardware config. This defaults to no 3d acceleration if you leave everything unconfigured. The installer very clearly gives you the option to enable 3D and dual head modes with a single click for each and allows you to test and reconfigure during the install. it's all right there in front of you but if you just click next next next you'll get unaccelerated graphics. It's entirely up to you.

As for keyboard mappings that's going to be another thing you can configure to some extent during install and there are good tools available to do it later. Again next next next probably won't give you the desired result. There are also big differences between similar looking keyboards, some have certain buttons enabled in hardware independent of any OS, while others rely on software for everything except the Power button. You'll find some keyboards recognised better on ubuntu and some not so well recognised, same with all distros.

btw Castar openSuse from 10.1 onwards includes 915resolution by default and so it should support any Intel 855/915 based widescreen monitor without the user having to patch the videobios. But i have to say the Ubuntu 915resolution patch is the best one I've used, just install and restart X and it's done. With most distros you have to try and follow readmes written for a different distro and interpret the startup script and edit a few other config files too. The Ubuntu patch does the lot for you. I found with the 945 that both Ubuntu and openSuse set the correct resolution without needing a patch. With the 855 and 915 ubuntu needs the patch but it's painless (if you know about it).

I've found it much easier to get almost any peice of hardware working on openSUSE than just about any other distro including ubuntu. I love it

also, if you use a laptop, openSUSE is probably the BEST at detecting hardware for that and doing just about everything else, this a big advantage considering that's prolly one of the least supported areas of linux

oh and the addon CD comes with just about all of the proprietary software drivers and such you'd ever need

ever

Ubuntu and other Linux distro are taking features out of suse for a reason.....

I just wish they had a small single cd version, downloading takes soooo long.

Sorry for resurrecting and older thread, but I was just itching to throw in my 2c.

I have been using Linux since the early Slackware days and back then Slackware, Debian, RedHat and SuSE ruled the market. All of the most popular distributions are nowadays backed by some sort of corporation. SuSe > Novell, Fedora > RedHat, Ubuntu > Canonical. The difference between Ubuntu and the rest is that Ubuntu is not really a beta playground for developers and the corporations behind it. It's a different philosophy and that's why Ubuntu is so popular.

SuSE and Redhat have alienated a lot of followers in late 90s (including myself) by going commerical and not offering any free downloads for a while. while Debian has always been free.

In the past few days, I iinstalled SuSE 10.2 alongside Ubuntu 7.04. I have to say that I didn't even bother to test Fedora, because previous releases haven't really left a big impression in my book.

SuSE is indeed very polished and hands-down the most professional-looking distro out there - f rom the extremely well-done setup to the impeccable clean desktop and ease of administration with YasT, Sax, etc.

I have gotten pretty experienced with Linux over the years and while I was using SuSE, I caught myself thinking: "Why am I using all those wizards and YaST?" YasT is a big black box for most users and only a few truly know what it is doing. While it certainly appeals to beginner and the non-technical end-user, I feel it has taken a part away from me that I like about Liniux - customization the way _I_ want it and not being dictated by wizards and automated tools what to do. Sure, you can always edit everything by hand, but will it be compatible with YasT?

Why did I switch from Windows in the first place? To have full control of my operating system. I feel YasT is taking a little piece away from me. Do I know what configuation files YasT changes? Not exactly.

Comparing Ubuntu and SuSE is also a little bit a preference for KDE or Gnome. Both have very different philosophies: Gnome likes to keep it simple and easy, while KDE tends to give the user full control over the behavior and look and feel with almost limitless configuration options.

SuSE is the innovator. A lot of kernel developers are SuSE developers and I have yet to find one official Ubuntu developer who participates actively in kernel development. Ubuntu has certainly a more active community, better documentation, better Wiki is a little bit more on the bleeding edge side.

Which one do I prefer at this point? Ubuntu. I just wish that they would end this distro-craziness (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu) and offer everything in one distribution with a much more modular installation routine.

Hope I won't be blamed for anything. I just want to ask some things which are not clear to me:

I'm not talking about speed difference with dual core processors or other hyper fast pcs: I'm talking about Pentium 4 @1 Ghz or @2 Ghz.

• Why is openoffice much faster in opensuse in comparison to openoffice in ubuntu?

Or do you think we don't need it? This question applies to sax2 as well, although it's never been announced to be released open source...

• Secondly: Yast has been announces as opensource. Do we have to remember Novel about that annouce?

I guess ubuntu is great thanks to Novell apps (such as mono apps) and Redhat apps (such as nm) which have been joined with debian structure and "spirit". If we only could benefit from old suse apps too.. Any chance to have them?

cheers

I dunno why open office is faster on suse. I know I run it both on Ubuntu and the odd time I have to be in XP, and I haven't seen a real noticeable difference between em, both load in 4-5 seconds cold.

Far as I know Yast is just another means of installing programs. Why would Ubuntu need another one? I mean it already has apt-get from terminal, Synaptic Package Manger (Adept in kubuntu), Add/Remove Gui, not to mention there are many third party installers like automatix2 that people use... and you can even download regular compiled debians and install from that.

Is there some unseen benefit of Yast?

You seem very attached to openSUSE, maybe you should use it instead of Ubuntu? Just a thought...

And I don't think Ubuntu is great only thanks to Novell and RH... Novell sold out to Microsoft, shows where their priorities are...

starcraft.man said: I dunno why open office is faster on suse. I know I run it both on Ubuntu and the odd time I have to be in XP, and I haven't seen a real noticeable difference between em, both load in 4-5 seconds cold.

Far as I know Yast is just another means of installing programs. Why would Ubuntu need another one? I mean it already has apt-get from terminal, Synaptic Package Manger (Adept in kubuntu), Add/Remove Gui, not to mention there are many third party installers like automatix2 that people use...

Is there some unseen benefit of Yast?

You seem very attached to openSUSE, maybe you should use it instead of Ubuntu? Just a thought...

And I don't think Ubuntu is great only thanks to Novell and RH... Novell sold out to Microsoft, shows where their priorities are... I think yast is also more of a "control panel", with config tools for a bunch of different things. A lot of them are actually kcmshells, I believe.

I'm not an expert, but I recall having read on these forums, that the OO binaries in Ubuntu are the ones compiled for Debian. Maybe the Suse ones are compiled specifically for Suse. Don't know if that'd change the speed, though...

YAST is a nice "control panel", everything seems very organised.

What lets it down is the package management. It's a slow process to add repos and even slower if you want to install or update anything.

I'm upgrading my machine tomorrow and currently downloading Kubuntu 7.04. I'm not decided whether I will put suse back on or go for Kubuntu.

I think the only thing I would miss would be kickoff (suse KDE menu).

_simon_ said: YAST is a nice "control panel", everything seems very organised.

What lets it down is the package management. It's a slow process to add repos and even slower if you want to install or update anything.

I'm upgrading my machine tomorrow and currently downloading Kubuntu 7.04. I'm not decided whether I will put suse back on or go for Kubuntu.

I think the only thing I would miss would be kickoff (suse KDE menu). Yeah, it'll be good to try both. I'm aware that Kubuntu is not the most preferred KDE distro out there, and there are some that are more polished...but I think an experienced user can pretty much get whatever they want out of any system. I really only stick with Ubuntu because of the insanely easy debian package management.

One thing I don't like about Kubuntu is their "System Settings" control panel type thing. They're trying to replace KControl with it, and it just doesn't compare. So every time I do a fresh install, pretty much the first thing I do is to enable the KControl Settings menu again.

as a control center yast is very good, intuitive and easy to use (especially if you don't want to use the command line) what pulls it back is the software management. it's slow, damn slow. adding sources takes forever...and that's a huge drawback for such a polished application. not mentioning it is not as good as synaptic at managing dependencies...

I cant stand Yast, it is

S L O W

Took me 3-5 hours to add a repo (no kidding)

Not to mention CNR is coming soon. :)

azkehmm said: I'm not an expert, but I recall having read on these forums, that the OO binaries in Ubuntu are the ones compiled for Debian. Maybe the Suse ones are compiled specifically for Suse. Don't know if that'd change the speed, though...Ubuntu is based on Debian. At the start of every release, we synchronise all of our packages, reapply our own patch sets (if they apply) and then continue, making other changes and compiling.

Adramelech said: I cant stand Yast, it is

S L O W

Took me 3-5 hours to add a repo (no kidding)

uhm, I managed to add a repo in less than an hour. I guess I'm damn lucky...:lolflag:

I find suse horribly slow compared to ubuntu.

Ubuntu pwns.

SuSe sucks.:lolflag:

There's already a large SuSE/Ubuntu comparison thread here: SuSE vs. Ubuntu

:cool:

Eclipse. said: I find suse horribly slow compared to ubuntu.

Ubuntu pwns.

SuSe sucks.:lolflag:

Hooray for the open source movement supporting each other :lolflag:! Whether you use openSUSE or not, it is a great member of the linux family and certainly does not "suck". Personally, I find the exact opposite in speed (because in Suse you can pick exactly what apps to install, unlike Ubuntu... you don't get stuck with crap like Firefox and Evolution if you don't want them), but you need to explore the install options before you make these judgments. If its the novell/MS deal that worries you... WAKE UP! Linux needs corporate support on some level, and look around at what companies do the most... guess what, Novell pretty much leads that list. Are they perfect? Nope. But they do a lot, and we should chill out and appreciate what they do, because it is more than most companies, including our beloved Google, will ever do.

EDIT: I do not use openSUSE, I do not care for it, but the reasons you all are bashing it for are very hypocritical and shallow, and that bothers me a lot.

igknighted said:

EDIT: I do not use openSUSE, I do not care for it, but the reasons you all are bashing it for are very hypocritical and shallow, and that bothers me a lot.

is the "all" a sweeping statement?

I've used openSUSE 10.2 since January-ish and am still currently using it but package management is just horrendously slow, which is why I'm thinking about moving to Kubuntu.

For openSuse 10.1 and 10.2 Novell introduced (imposed?) their enterprise management tool Zen. It really hasn't worked out and is being dropped for 10.3 when openSuse will go back to having high quality fast package management via traditional tools integrated into Yast. Zen will be retained for the enterprise products where it belongs. Apparently Zen is a superb tool for deploying and managing software in an enterprise environment, it's even won awards, but for a soho user's package manager it sucks, and nobody will be sorry to see it go. At the moment anyone using openSuse 10.1 or 10.2 can use Smart Package Manager, it's a very good tool.

igknighted said: Hooray for the open source movement supporting each other :lolflag:! Whether you use openSUSE or not, it is a great member of the linux family and certainly does not "suck". Personally, I find the exact opposite in speed (because in Suse you can pick exactly what apps to install, unlike Ubuntu... you don't get stuck with crap like Firefox and Evolution if you don't want them), but you need to explore the install options before you make these judgments. If its the novell/MS deal that worries you... WAKE UP! Linux needs corporate support on some level, and look around at what companies do the most... guess what, Novell pretty much leads that list. Are they perfect? Nope. But they do a lot, and we should chill out and appreciate what they do, because it is more than most companies, including our beloved Google, will ever do.

EDIT: I do not use openSUSE, I do not care for it, but the reasons you all are bashing it for are very hypocritical and shallow, and that bothers me a lot.

THANKYOU!!! FINALLY!!!! someone who agrees with me and isn't totally swept up in this "anything ms is the devil" fad and realising how good for linux novell really is

_simon_ said: is the "all" a sweeping statement?

I've used openSUSE 10.2 since January-ish and am still currently using it but package management is just horrendously slow, which is why I'm thinking about moving to Kubuntu.

once again, simple fix, use smart, disable zen, and there you go, package management that I would say is even faster than synaptic and apt ;-) imo RPM pwns apt any day nowadays, I've had more errors and problems with .deb's than rpm's hands down:guitar:

this very simple and quick sollution is plastered all over every suse forum, hell you can even search on the opensuse website about the problem and it'll bring up this solution first. . .

they understand and admit there mistake with YAST and ZEN, they are making steps to fix it, but for all good things you must of course wait, and smart really is making that easy

and the fact that they understand and admit there mistake goes to prove they're not a company like M$ who to this day has denied many security issues and bugs saying they never existed and will not fix them, and M$ will not admit defeat on there registry system and directX. . .

julian67 said: For openSuse 10.1 and 10.2 Novell introduced (imposed?) their enterprise management tool Zen. It really hasn't worked out and is being dropped for 10.3 when openSuse will go back to having high quality fast package management via traditional tools integrated into Yast. Zen will be retained for the enterprise products where it belongs. Apparently Zen is a superb tool for deploying and managing software in an enterprise environment, it's even won awards, but for a soho user's package manager it sucks, and nobody will be sorry to see it go. At the moment anyone using openSuse 10.1 or 10.2 can use Smart Package Manager, it's a very good tool.

thankyou once again, I am not alone in actually understanding suse before trying to bash it

:)

darkenedday said: THANKYOU!!! FINALLY!!!! someone who agrees with me and isn't totally swept up in this "anything ms is the devil" fad and realising how good for linux novell really is

once again, simple fix, use smart, disable zen, and there you go, package management that I would say is even faster than synaptic and apt ;-) imo RPM pwns apt any day nowadays, I've had more errors and problems with .deb's than rpm's hands down:guitar:

this very simple and quick sollution is plastered all over every suse forum, hell you can even search on the opensuse website about the problem and it'll bring up this solution first. . .

they understand and admit there mistake with YAST and ZEN, they are making steps to fix it, but for all good things you must of course wait, and smart really is making that easy

and the fact that they understand and admit there mistake goes to prove they're not a company like M$ who to this day has denied many security issues and bugs saying they never existed and will not fix them, and M$ will not admit defeat on there registry system and directX. . .

thankyou once again, I am not alone in actually understanding suse before trying to bash it

:)

I like openSuse a lot, I believe it's the highest quality desktop distro, though I actually use Xubuntu now because I find Gnome rather slow, whether it's on Ubuntu, openSuse or anything else and I don't need much more than a lightweight desktop with relatively few config tools right now. The Suse bashing here is mostly ill informed and reminds me of Windows users who are upset and surprised that Linux isn't Windows.....well openSuse isn't Ubuntu and Ubuntu is only one flavour of Linux anyway.

julian67 said: I like openSuse a lot, I believe it's the highest quality desktop distro, though I actually use Xubuntu now because I find Gnome rather slow, whether it's on Ubuntu, openSuse or anything else and I don't need much more than a lightweight desktop with relatively few config tools right now. The Suse bashing here is mostly ill informed and reminds me of Windows users who are upset and surprised that Linux isn't Windows.....well openSuse isn't Ubuntu and Ubuntu is only one flavour of Linux anyway.

Honestly, Novell is changing Gnome and KDE to HELP ME GET THINGS DONE in a more productive manner, to help me get the information I want, etc. If Novell had more inclusive repos like Ubuntu's I'd be using it right now, best believe.

Adamant1988 said: Honestly, Novell is changing Gnome and KDE to HELP ME GET THINGS DONE in a more productive manner, to help me get the information I want, etc. If Novell had more inclusive repos like Ubuntu's I'd be using it right now, best believe.

I'm not sure I understand your meaning but if you can't find what you want via http://software.opensuse.org/ or by following the advice at http://en.opensuse.org/Additional_YaST_Package_Repositories I'd be very surprised.

julian67 said: I'm not sure I understand your meaning but if you can't find what you want via http://software.opensuse.org/ or by following the advice at http://en.opensuse.org/Additional_YaST_Package_Repositories I'd be very surprised.

Well, what I mean is that I want repos that are inclusive managed by people who are guaranteed to uphold the packaging standards of the distribution. I like Livna for Fedora for this reason, it's managed by the same people who do the Fedora Repos, so it upholds those standards. Past that I just don't trust 3rd party repos.

Isn't it ironic that non-free is part of what makes Debian-based distros really attractive.. :)

That's the good thing about Debian not being owned by a corporation.

Adamant1988 said: Well, what I mean is that I want repos that are inclusive managed by people who are guaranteed to uphold the packaging standards of the distribution. I like Livna for Fedora for this reason, it's managed by the same people who do the Fedora Repos, so it upholds those standards. Past that I just don't trust 3rd party repos.

For Suse you can use the official repos and add Packman and Guru, well established and trusted, and promoted by openSuse. Digital signing should be used. If any of the Suse build service people started hosting malware I doubt they would stay part of the service for long. Packman and Guru and several other repos have packages of highest quality, they've been doing this a long time.

julian67 said: For Suse you can use the official repos and add Packman and Guru, well established and trusted, and promoted by openSuse. Digital signing should be used. If any of the Suse build service people started hosting malware I doubt they would stay part of the service for long. Packman and Guru and several other repos have packages of highest quality, they've been doing this a long time.

I may have to look into that then :)

I've been playing with Open SuSe 10.2 for a few days now. It is quite a shift from 9.1 and even Ubuntu despite sharing a GNOME desktop including Firefox2 (plus KDE and other choices too). There were gotchas for me like the fact that KINTERNET is not installed by default in 10.2, even when a modem is detected and configured and no other network interface is present. There was absolutely nothing useful about dialup or modem issues on the OpenSuse forum, but suseforums.net had what I needed to get connected. Just blow off half of the world's PC users who rely on dialup. Everyone else does! Give a slight forum edge to Ubuntu (for depth) so far.

I had tried KPPP but got a lot of permission errors I couldn't resolve by adding dialout and modem permissions. The answer is to install KINTERNET from the DVD. It uses WVDIAL and modem settings so there is nothing else to configure beyond what is in Yast. This little but powerful icon is still the best dial out interface I've seen after many years of dialup Linux.

I found the GNOME dynamic menu annoying and hindrance until I figured out that I could add apps to the Favorites Menu from the right-click context menu. It is still less useful than either KDE or Ubuntu's Apps menu unless you only use a few of the same apps everytime. This dumbing down of the menu interface smacks of M$ and is not likely to be appreciated by anyone but a brand new user.

While easy to install, the software options are a bit difficult to decypher. I haven't yet figured out how to switch between GNOME and KDE without changing the default in System Management. Help isn't any better than with M$ either. I had to check to add KDE basics and desktop, gcc, and kernel source among others during the initial setup dialog. Adding software from the DVD is painless and easier than Ubuntu, but configuring online updates is less intuitive than Ubuntu.

Frankly, I expected more progress since 9.1 which I found to be very fast, easy to use and configure. I used it until they stopped supporting it, though online updates in 9.1 never worked very well. Dialup worked immediately back then without any fiddling around on private forums for the tricks to get it working. I'll have to try Smart Pkg Mgr. as mentioned here. Synaptic is solid and easier than the default SuSe tool.

I'll add more later when I've tried using all the apps. but for now I see no killer app or feature that either precludes or demands trying Open SuSe 10.2 over Ubuntu Edgy or Feisty, unless you just don't care for Novell/M$.

kripkenstein said: Both SuSE and Ubuntu are great distros; they are the two best desktop distros in my opinion.

As for differences, Ubuntu has better repositories (as a Debian derivative), and a far bigger and better community (and the support from there) - overall I prefer it. It seems a better OS for the computer enthusiast. However, SuSE is far more 'professional' or business-oriented. There are still too many things Ubuntu forces you to do from the command line, while SuSE has yast. SuSE also has good integration with the various Novell tools for enterprises.

well put, I second this :)

starcraft.man said: I dunno why open office is faster on suse. I know I run it both on Ubuntu and the odd time I have to be in XP, and I haven't seen a real noticeable difference between em, both load in 4-5 seconds cold.

Far as I know Yast is just another means of installing programs. Why would Ubuntu need another one? I mean it already has apt-get from terminal, Synaptic Package Manger (Adept in kubuntu), Add/Remove Gui, not to mention there are many third party installers like automatix2 that people use... and you can even download regular compiled debians and install from that.

Is there some unseen benefit of Yast?

You seem very attached to openSUSE, maybe you should use it instead of Ubuntu? Just a thought...

And I don't think Ubuntu is great only thanks to Novell and RH... Novell sold out to Microsoft, shows where their priorities are...

I probably found the answer to my question:

[COLOR="Red"]Application preloading (without PePr) Since Suse Linux 10.0beta4, this is installed by default, so there is no need to mess with your system. Just install your system and enjoy! The applications that are preloaded by default are Firefox, OpenOffice, Mozilla, Gimp, Khelpcenter and KDE itself. For more details, have a look at the "preload" package. [/COLOR]

taken from http://en.opensuse.org/SUPER_preloading

Why not to think of a preload/prelink gui where you're asked which app you want to preload? Just like the restricted driver gui but with a warning: activate preload/prelink if you have xxx MB of RAM minmum

I don't know why but every time i tried using suse, i disliked it so much that i not only switched distros, but went back to using windows. There's something very irritating about suse that turns me off.

mainalisuyog said: I don't know why but every time i tried using suse, i disliked it so much that i not only switched distros, but went back to using windows. There's something very irritating about suse that turns me off.

yast? or zen? :D

karellen said: yast? or zen?

:D

Well, if it's zen it will be gone at 10.3.

I really cannot understand why people don't like Yast. It is by far the easiest way to administer a linux system...

Castar said: Well, if it's zen it will be gone at 10.3.

I really cannot understand why people don't like Yast. It is by far the easiest way to administer a linux system...

People confuse yast2 (software manager) with yast the system control panel. I would say yast is about as good as it gets, although Mandriva's DrakConf tools give it a good run for the money.

Even so, the package management is really good even though a bit slow to start because of the repositories updating. It is very configurable and I have never experienced breakage.

And at the end of the day, if someone doesn't like graphic package management, they can always use zypper, the equivalent to apt.

Castar said: Even so, the package management is really good even though a bit slow to start because of the repositories updating. It is very configurable and I have never experienced breakage.

And at the end of the day, if someone doesn't like graphic package management, they can always use zypper, the equivalent to apt.

zypper is decent, although also slow. I find that suse's repo's are cumbersome. Yum repo's and apt repos are both easier to deal with. With suse, you need 3 different repo's to keep KDE up to date, and more to XGL/Beryl/Compiz or other stuff (madwifi, KDE4, etc.). You also get ati/nvidia drivers direct from the vendor, which scares me. I would prefer a linux person to build the packages.

igknighted said: zypper is decent, although also slow. I find that suse's repo's are cumbersome. Yum repo's and apt repos are both easier to deal with. With suse, you need 3 different repo's to keep KDE up to date, and more to XGL/Beryl/Compiz or other stuff (madwifi, KDE4, etc.). You also get ati/nvidia drivers direct from the vendor, which scares me. I would prefer a linux person to build the packages.

openSuse package management with Zen is not good. Smart is available from official repos and fixes almost all issues. If you run KDE you can get automatic patch/security updates too via opensuse updater applet or smart updater, so you can say the issue is 100% resolved. openSuse 10.3 should have everything back to a good standard out of the box for KDE and Gnome.

If you run Suse and want to keep KDE up to date you need only one repo, the official Suse update repo. This will mean you have the KDE version that shipped with your distro and all patches and security updates as they appear. It is normal practice for mainstream/stable distros to aim for stability and offer patches in preference to new untested versions of applications and desktop environments. If you want newer, unstable/untested versions then you must look outside of the official repos. This is true of Debian, Ubuntu, Slackware, Fedora, Mandriva etc etc etc

For Beryl in Suse you only need one extra repo (http://software.opensuse.org/download/X11:/XGL/openSUSE_10.2) and you have everything.

Is anyone out there seriously claiming that you can get the latest KDE, Beryl, Madfwifi all from one official Ubuntu or Debian repo? It's not true. Please show me the repo where all this is available......not possible.

If you use nvidia card but want a "linux person" to build your driver.....get real and get Intel graphics or quit complaining, this is some kind of fantasy. An nvidia binary is an nvidia binary, it doesn't matter where it is hosted, it is a proprietary binary built by nvidia. If you obtain it from a or b or c, or use Ubuntu, openSuse, Mac or Windows it's proprietary. If you feel strongly about proprietary drivers then don't use nvidia or ati with proprietary drivers, use Intel GMA with Free drivers.

julian67 said: openSuse package management with Zen is not good. Smart is available from official repos and fixes almost all issues. If you run KDE you can get automatic patch/security updates too via opensuse updater applet or smart updater, so you can say the issue is 100% resolved. openSuse 10.3 should have everything back to a good standard out of the box for KDE and Gnome.

I was referring to CLI ackage management. Zen is only the updater tool, not really the true package manager. Yes, I have removed Zen as it isn't good. Smart is certainly a possibility, but on my production machine I will not run a beta package manager. Sorry. It is really good tho. When it is done it will be the standard across the board I believe (Ubuntu/Suse/others).

julian67 said: If you run Suse and want to keep KDE up to date you need only one repo, the official Suse update repo. This will mean you have the KDE version that shipped with your distro and all patches and security updates as they appear. It is normal practice for mainstream/stable distros to aim for stability and offer patches in preference to new untested versions of applications and desktop environments. If you want newer, unstable/untested versions then you must look outside of the official repos. This is true of Debian, Ubuntu, Slackware, Fedora, Mandriva etc etc etc

I was referring to the very latest KDE, not the version Suse ships with. Just go to this page and look at all the repo's you need to have everything on your system and keep it updated: http://en.opensuse.org/Package_Repositories. And these are just the official and semi official repo's, not counting packman and guru and XGL and madwifi... Plus anytime you use any of the suse packaging tools it updates every on of these. And that takes a LONG time unless you pick really fast mirrors.

julian67 said: For Beryl in Suse you only need one extra repo (http://software.opensuse.org/download/X11:/XGL/openSUSE_10.2) and you have everything.

Is anyone out there seriously claiming that you can get the latest KDE, Beryl, Madfwifi all from one official Ubuntu or Debian repo? It's not true. Please show me the repo where all this is available......not possible.

Ok, KDE and beryl/madwifi are usually split between free and non-free. But Fedora makes the process easier, and in Ubuntu the repo's are easily added (if they are not already) and if you try Debian Sid it's all there as well. Plus the PCLOS repo has all of this (minus the cutting edge KDE) in one repo too.

julian67 said: If you use nvidia card but want a "linux person" to build your driver.....get real and get Intel graphics or quit complaining, this is some kind of fantasy. An nvidia binary is an nvidia binary, it doesn't matter where it is hosted, it is a proprietary binary built by nvidia. If you obtain it from a or b or c, or use Ubuntu, openSuse, Mac or Windows it's proprietary. If you feel strongly about proprietary drivers then don't use nvidia or ati with proprietary drivers, use Intel GMA with Free drivers.

Agreed. I am indeed using intel graphics right now. That said, it does matter who packages it and if I need to find and update as extra repo. Different distro's put libraries and other files in different places. Usually the driver's installer is good at finding stuff, but sometimes it needs help. I would like to think that they do it right for Suse, but any hand the Suse guys can play in this gives that much more assurances that it will work. And if they were included in packman or guru instead, it would be one less repo for me to update every time. THAT would be worth it in and of itself.

I don't want to sound like I am just bashing Suse. If I was deploying linux as an OEM or as a business, I would use Suse over anything else. But for me, for my personal use, I prefer other distros. SAM linux on this computer, Fedora on my other machine, Ubuntu on my server. Just preference, and the handling of repo's is one major reason.

igknighted said: but on my production machine I will not run a beta package manager.

OK

igknighted said:

I was referring to the very latest KDE, not the version Suse ships with.

Your argument just fell over and died from internal hemorrhage :lolflag:

You'd have to be crazy to use the very latest KDE (or Gnome) on a production machine. It won't be stable, this is true for any distro which offers stable releases. It won't be officially supported and you also lose the benefit of many months of widespread testing and availability of packages compiled for the version.

On the other hand a beta package manager on a *stable* production machine is not as bad as it sounds as it basically has very little to do and only handles known good packages.

Adamant1988 said: Well, what I mean is that I want repos that are inclusive managed by people who are guaranteed to uphold the packaging standards of the distribution. I like Livna for Fedora for this reason, it's managed by the same people who do the Fedora Repos, so it upholds those standards. Past that I just don't trust 3rd party repos.

There are many, many nice things about openSUSE. But I found it to be generally slow (1.6GHz, 1.5GB RAM), with a very slow, confusing package management system.

igknighted said: Smart is certainly a possibility, but on my production machine I will not run a beta package manager.

beta?? Smart has a gtk interface that could use some love, and still hasn't a QT interface. But if you forget the GUIs Smart is a release quality software. Nowhere says "beta".

igknighted said: I was referring to the very latest KDE, not the version Suse ships with. Just go to this page and look at all the repo's you need to have everything on your system and keep it updated: http://en.opensuse.org/Package_Repositories.

There is "KDE Backports", a separate repository that allows you to have the latest KDE applications without the need to install the last unsupported KDE version. And "KDE Core Packages" that is the last KDE version. This separation makes a lot of sense, it allows you to:

• Have the default, stable, KDE that comes with the distribution with the default apps.
• Have the last Amarok, Digikam, K3B, KOffice, etc. while you still use an stable, supported, KDE version.
• Have the last version of everything KDE related.

Then you have "KDE Playground" that has development version of KDE packages. This one isn't something a normal user will want, it has things to be released in KDE4 (strigi, marble, dolphin) and beta version of KDE3 programs. This one clearly must be separated of the rest. And "KDE Community", that has applications that aren't part of KDE but that use KDE framework. Apps that you find in http://www.kde-apps.org/ are here.

So, the KDE update is really only separated in two repositories. And this separation between "KDE Backports" and "KDE Core Packages" has good motives.

igknighted said: Plus anytime you use any of the suse packaging tools it updates every on of these. And that takes a LONG time unless you pick really fast mirrors.

The tools only download "repomd.xml" a file that easily is under 1KB. In case there are updates then the rest of the metadata is downloaded. If "KDE Backports" metadata is 5MB (just invented) and "KDE Core Packages" metadata is 6MB and only "KDE Backports" is updated you end downloading 5MB+1KB. If both repositories where joined I would need to download 11MB of metadata for the same update. So separating the repositories actually REDUCES download size. And the default mirrors "download.opensuse.org", "software.opensuse.org", and "ftp.suse.com" give me the 100KB/s my line supports, I don't think that's slow.

igknighted said: Agreed. I am indeed using intel graphics right now. That said, it does matter who packages it and if I need to find and update as extra repo. Different distro's put libraries and other files in different places. Usually the driver's installer is good at finding stuff, but sometimes it needs help. I would like to think that they do it right for Suse, but any hand the Suse guys can play in this gives that much more assurances that it will work.

madwifi, nVidia, ATI... drivers aren't packaged in official repositories because Novell has a strict policy of NEVER use closed-source kernel modules. This isn't a repos handling problem, is a philosophy problem. And I apreciate the fact that Novell thinks about free software.

Yes Suse is a good distro but, the community is nothing like Ubuntu.

True...

I will never use Suse again. The people in their channel on freenode have no sense of compassion for a n00b. Very rude. Tasteless comments. You name it, they were right on top of it.

darkenedday said: SuSE may be the most userfriendly (without being totally windblows like) YAST is a great tool.

I disagree, I despise Yast. It is mind numbingly slow. Yast has installed dependences that have broken my system.

If yast is your primary reason for switching then I'm puzzled. If you are seeking a gui package manager I can assure you that synaptic is *at least* twice as fast. Synaptic has never broken my system and prevented it form firing up after a reboot either.

SUSE had many errors and would crash from time to time.

Getting to restricted system functions lagged.

I wasn't learning anything about how linux works under the point and click menus at all. I had no real concept of the command line.

There's this too http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/03/microsoft_novell_suse_linux/

I started out with SUSE because I was told that it was easy and I switched fairly quickly. I've used slackware, gentoo, yellowdog, Mandriva, Debian, Dreamlinux, BackTrack to the HD making it my primary os, FreeBSD, and I still use and love OpenBSD. Out of all of the Linux and BSD distributions I tried I liked SUSE the least.

Get out there and find out what's right for you. In my opinion ubuntu is the easiest and best distribution available.

Lividity said: I disagree, I despise Yast. It is mind numbingly slow. Yast has installed dependences that have broken my system.

YaST is a lot more than a package manager.

Lividity said: SUSE had many errors and would crash from time to time.

Perhaps would crash from time to time in your machine (and probably just a particular SUSE version, no?), but in general openSUSE is an absolutely stable distro.

Ubuntu is too easy for day to day use else Suse is there :) I like both but on 1 I'll stick to Ubuntu ;)

both are great, but I prefare ubuntu and I would not learn linux using SUSE.

:ks

brian j said: Why would anyone continue to use Suse after Novel sold it's soul to

Micro$oft?? Especially after Steve Ballmer Lied about Linux Infringing on SO CALLED Copyright issues!! Micro$oft FULLY KNOW that' this isn't the case and have been warned about making such ridiculous and outrageous statements!

We All Know Micro$oft's real intention don't we??? To be fully world dominant by any means possible.

*sigh* It's people like you that keep linux at an arms length from society. You are so blinded by this hate for Microsoft that everything having to do with them you reject without thought. Lets think about this for a second:

Suse Linux is covered by the GPL, so nothing can possibly happen to its code. Novell is the #1 corporate contributer to OSS projects (I have no data to back that up... but I cannot think of a company who's resume is as impressive). Novell fought off SCO. Honestly, try to go a month without using a Novell project on your linux box. If you can do that, then you can argue not to use Suse. But using Suse (a novell OSS project) is no different than using Evolution, XGL, Mono, Beagle or any other Novell OSS project.

Grow up. The anti-Novell FUD has to stop, this is rediculous.

I happen to think very highly of openSuSE. I'm not going to link back to another post I had in this same thread giving rah-rahs to SuSE for the polish of their gnome desktop... However, I can't help but feel that with working with 10.2 and occassionally testing out 10.3 beta that bugs are intentionally left in... I won't get into the 10.1 fiascos. It's just a feeling I have with some of the issue(s) I ran into. Like a text-only install of 10.2 froze my server and other little things only ten mins after logging into it for the first time... Kind of like the bugs are intentionally left in so when people get use to using the distro in a semi-production environment they want you to purchase SLES or SLED from Novell? Now, I'm not asking anyone to rebuild SLES a'la Fedora -> RedHat -> CentOS or anything like that. Oh heck, who am I kidding, I'm just bored....

i tried suse and i like it alot, I had a hard time finding repos tho... but it is annoying that you have to do such a huge download to install it... ubuntu way cool for the one cd install... then later you get the junk you want

dca said: I happen to think very highly of openSuSE. I'm not going to link back to another post I had in this same thread giving rah-rahs to SuSE for the polish of their gnome desktop... However, I can't help but feel that with working with 10.2 and occassionally testing out 10.3 beta that bugs are intentionally left in... I won't get into the 10.1 fiascos. It's just a feeling I have with some of the issue(s) I ran into. Like a text-only install of 10.2 froze my server and other little things only ten mins after logging into it for the first time... Kind of like the bugs are intentionally left in so when people get use to using the distro in a semi-production environment they want you to purchase SLES or SLED from Novell? Now, I'm not asking anyone to rebuild SLES a'la Fedora -> RedHat -> CentOS or anything like that. Oh heck, who am I kidding, I'm just bored....

You don't have to pay for either SLED or SLES, they can be downloaded at no cost. It's the support that is paid.

btw rigdzinthar for the next version of openSuse there will be single CDs for Gnome and KDE as well as the usual DVD with everything on it. I read they're working on a live CD with installer but not as a high priority.

julian67 said: You don't have to pay for either SLED or SLES, they can be downloaded at no cost. It's the support that is paid.

btw rigdzinthar for the next version of openSuse there will be single CDs for Gnome and KDE as well as the usual DVD with everything on it. I read they're working on a live CD with installer but not as a high priority.

I will install the completed 10.3 upon release just to give it a go. I'll probably d/l the entire DVD just to have everything. Got no internet w/o ndis & Windows drivers anyways.

The only way I see that you can d/l full vers of SLES or SLED is on a 60 day trial. No other updates avail after that until service agreement signed...

rigdzinthar said: i tried suse and i like it alot, I had a hard time finding repos tho...

but it is annoying that you have to do such a huge download to install it... ubuntu way cool for the one cd install... then later you get the junk you want

http://en.opensuse.org/Package_Repositories

and

http://en.opensuse.org/Additional_YaST_Package_Repositories

The first link is right with the download link on the homepage, and the second is at the bottom of the first link. If you cannot find a package in any of these repos, it probably doesn't exist.

EDIT: If you install SMART for package management then it activates a lot of these repos (or asks you if you want them enabled at least).

igknighted said: Novell is the #1 corporate contributer to OSS projects (I have no data to back that up... but I cannot think of a company who's resume is as impressive).

http://lwn.net/Articles/222773/

At least in the Kernel looks like Red Hat and IBM contribute more. Yes, Novell contributes a lot in other parts, while IBM probably doesn't do a lot more. But Red Hat also contributes a lot to userspace, so probably Novell is the #2 corporate contributer. Anyway, sure... brian j probably doesn't knows what the agreement says at all.

Today I have installed openSUSE 10.3 Beta 2 and I have to say... it is amazing!

It is really fast, boot time has reduced drastically, it is very snappy (at least its KDE implementation that I've tried) and they have made noticable improvements in zypper resulting in a much faster package management system.

Also, they have returned to the green-theming. And it has one-click installation through the website. And finally one-cd installations are available. And people can make their own packages through the Build Service.

Exciting times for openSUSE!

:ks

:ks

brian j said: Someone hit a nerve???

Only because of the ignorance in the linux community. I do not use Suse, nor am I associated with Novell or any project they sponser. You want to know what nerve you hit?

1) Putting a $ in microsoft started you off childish, and you did that three times.

2) You don't know what you are talking about. Clearly you have no inside knowledge of the deal, you are just fear mongering because you don't know.

3) I bet you use novell software... so while you are boycotting one you are likely using another... thats pretty hypocritical.

4) The entire attitude of many here (and your post just happened to sum it all up nicely) is just anti microsoft. It's not pro-linux. Its not even pro free software. It's just lashing out blindly at everything microsoft does. Sure, I disagree with (almost) everything they do. But I still give them a fair shake. It's called being openminded. Its called getting the facts and thinking about things before you jumped to conclusions. It's also called being tactful when you disagree.

In short, I am upset at the community for acting like 12 year olds when it comes to anything microsoft. Yes, disagree (please do). But be open minded, do your research, and for the love of god, please be tactful.

EDIT: This is certainly not everyone. Many are very rational and can discuss the matter well. There is, however, a sizeable group that cannot. This was addressed at them.

EDIT 2, @ Brian J: If you can honestly tell me that you use no Novell projects and can lay out a ration case as to why you feel so strongly about this, then I will apologize for my reaction (tho it was not directed directly at you). If you are just fear-mongering as it appears, you can have your views, but I would ask you not push them on people who could be new and impressionable without making at least a semi-rational case.

RedDwarf said: YaST is a lot more than a package manager.

I am aware that yast is more than a package manager. I found that everything that I tried to do with yast was slow. There was a big delay every time I logged into an area which yast controlled.

When it came to searching for and installing packages, forget about it, we're talking about molasses flowing uphill in the wintertime speeds. Debain based distros are much faster.

RedDwarf said: Perhaps would crash from time to time in your machine (and probably just a particular SUSE version, no?), but in general openSUSE is an absolutely stable distro.

My machine ran other linux and BSD distros without issue. I used SUSE 10 and Open SUSE 10.1 and I was really displeased with both releases.

It appears the you have had more enjoyable experience with SUSE then I did. I really didn't like SUSE or yast at all. Based on what I experienced I will never go back to suse or recommend it to anyone. Ubuntu is a much better desktop solution in my opinion.

Lividity said:

Debain based distros are much faster.

Yast (actually libzypp) by default always refreshes the repositories when invoked, and this is why it always takes time for the package management module to start. Apt doesn't do that unless especially requested and this is why YaST seems slower in the package management. One can easily stop the autorefresh behaviour in the Repositories section of YaST.

I am now running 10.3 beta 2 and they have made notable improvements in the package management module in terms of speed. Just FYI. :)

Lividity said: When it came to searching for and installing packages, forget about it, we're talking about molasses flowing uphill in the wintertime speeds. Debain based distros are much faster.

Well, I never actually had any issues with the speed when searching for packages at least compared to any Debian based distribution. Installing isn't bad either except for the cache thing at the end of each installation.

Anyway, I think everybody should start to use Smart. Or at least take the dependecy resolution algorithm from Smart and implement it in the specific programs from each distro.

Just see some examples: http://www.suselinuxsupport.de/wikka.php?wakka=smartcasestudies (outdated, download smart to see the last version in his README). It is better than libzypp, better than yum... and yes, better than apt.

I just went through installing Ubutnu 7.04 and openSuse 10.2.

Ubuntu installed in less than an hour Everything except my wireless worked (and DVD playback) Network (Samba) could be viewed immediately Had no issues installing codecs to play MP3, Divx

In openSuse It took several hours: First you have to download a DVD which hs 3.6 GB then you have to go through hours of updates.

Wireless still didnt work

Didn't see my Windows network

Menus weren't as nice

Package installation isn't as easy

Just my take in the last 24 hours

Plus with Ubuntu - I got both of my problems corrected and I am quite happy

jlombs said: I just went through installing Ubutnu 7.04 and openSuse 10.2.

Ubuntu installed in less than an hour Everything except my wireless worked (and DVD playback) Network (Samba) could be viewed immediately Had no issues installing codecs to play MP3, Divx

In openSuse It took several hours: First you have to download a DVD which hs 3.6 GB then you have to go through hours of updates.

You are not very fair though here, you have included the download time for openSUSE and the update time, when you just say for Ubuntu the time it took to install, no mention of the download time or its update time. Also, for the updates, you have to keep in mind that openSUSE 10.2 is around 10+ months old by now whereas Ubuntu 7.04 is just 4 months old so the number of updates is bound to be more.

jlombs said: Wireless still didnt work

Didn't see my Windows network

Menus weren't as nice

Package installation isn't as easy

Which wireless card do you have?

As for the menus, are you refering to gnome or KDE?

Package installation is faster in Ubuntu, but its speed will be greatly improved in 10.3.

Well I am a noob, and I am talking strictly from an end user's experience. Ubuntu installed quicker (even if you factor in the installation of updates after you install it)

Opensuse 10.2 on a dell Inspiron 5100 with 512 MB ran took about 5 hours to install\configure

Ubuntu was about 2 hours (prob about 40 minutes for the install) 20 minutes at most for the updates 1 hour for post configurations (codecs, printers, wireless (once I knew what I was doing).

I have a linksys wireless WUS54G (PCMCIA) card. openSuse knew the card, told me what it was, but it didn't connect.

I installed Gnome based on the installation DVD telling me that is where firefox, Openoffice were the weapons of choice

I wrestled with Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Mint Gnome and Mint KDE (and I realize they are all based on the same thing) and I never could get my ATI1000 Dual card to give me two independent displays.

I installed OpenSUSE 10.2 last night, and yes, it took longer than Ubuntu to install.... BUT I had no difficulties at all getting the dual display I've been craving.

I'm going to install it on my laptop, too, as soon as I can wrap my brain around using ndiswrapper for my Linksys wireless card.

By the way, Ubuntu (and all the variants) immediately saw my wireless card. :) ....so I'll wrestle with that on my laptop with OpenSUSE but it's worth it to me.

.....so there's some give-and-take no matter which way you go.

:)

I ran OpenSuse 10.2 and Ubuntu 6.10 on my system for several months. Suse is nice, I really liked it , until I updated the system and discovered that the package manager (zmd) had been replaced with yet another new one called zypper. I like Suse but the package management system keeps changing ,this is confusing to some ! If you install Suse first, Ubuntu will set grub up for you, but I have had problems installing Ubuntu first. I should mention that Suse is a bit on the slow side, but all in all it is still one of the best in my opinion!

Opensuse 10.3 so far is pretty darn good on my test laptop.

I had my Logitech Ultra Vision usb webcam plugged into the laptop during the whole install and when I logged in for the first time and fired up Kopete, the webcam was working. :)

Suspend works when I press the suspend button, wireless works, Openoffice launched pretty quickly, and the system in general is pretty snappy compared to 10.2.

So I guess I'll keep this on my test laptop for a while longer so I can try it out more. Hmm... if this keeps up, I may have to partition my desktop HD again to make room for OpenSuse. ;)

I tested OpenSuse 10.3 tonight. I could only boot off the Live CD in safe graphics mode, the install took forever, no pretty boot up screen, and my printer would not set up.

I like my install of LinuxMint much better, everything just worked. The install only took 20 minutes and the menu is a lot better.

I am glad I tested on an extra hard drive!

I did notice two good things about OpenSuse, it booted up fast and the fonts were perfect.

Pros: Gnome interface is faster than Ubuntu. One click install is very easy. Default theme is beautiful. Good selection of applications. Good configuration tools.

Cons: It doesn't contain subpixel hinting by default because of MS patents Reloading repositories takes more time. Default menu for Gnome desktop doesn't contain shortcuts for all aplications, you have to click a button to open the list of apps.

I'd love a mix of Ubuntu and Opensuse, taking superior qualities from both sides.

mindtrick said: It doesn't contain subpixel hinting by default because of MS patents

Isn't every distribution doing this? It was disabled upstream: http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/freetype-cvs/2006-09/msg00020.html

CHANGES BETWEEN 2.2.1 and 2.2.2

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/freetype/2006-09/msg00064.html

• LCD-optimized rendering is now disabled in all default builds of the library, mainly due to patent reasons. For more information see:

a new configuration macro FT_CONFIG_OPTION_SUBPIXEL_RENDERING has been introduced in ftoption.h; manually define it in this file if you want to re-enable the feature.

the change only affects the implementation, not the FreeType API. This means that clients don't need to be modified, because the library still generates LCD decimated bitmaps, but with the added constraint that R=G=B on each triplet. Is Ubuntu reenabling it?

The fonts are much better at 10.3 compared to 10.2. I'm not sure if the sub-pixel hinting is enabled or not, but the fonts look great.

i think suse does many things well, and ubuntu should borrow from it. Suse install correctly set up my monitor + graphics card automatically first try (1280x1024, nvidia driver) while ubuntu stuck me with (800x600 and nv driver)

not to mention prettier grub and splash screen

mpgarate said: i think suse does many things well, and ubuntu should borrow from it. Suse install correctly set up my monitor + graphics card automatically first try (1280x1024, nvidia driver) while ubuntu stuck me with (800x600 and nv driver)

My experience has been just the opposite. I wasn't too worried about having 800x600 in openSuse because I thought I could fix it. I was wrong. Everything I tried brought me a blank screen. So deleted it and moved on.

openSuse seems needless over complicated to me.

The fonts are much better at 10.3 compared to 10.2. I'm not sure if the sub-pixel hinting is enabled or not, but the fonts look great.

I tried 10.3 myself yesterday and like someone previously mentioned it took a while to download & install.

http was going to take about 3 hours at the time,even with our 20Mb connection.I suppose their servers were rather busy at the time though?? The download i eventually left going via a torrent overnight but installing yesterday took 2 hours on a machine thats usually takes 20 minutes to install Ubuntu.I was out for a cycle with my girls and still back in plenty time:) It obviously has a lot of software already installed but i could have installed Ubuntu and half of Synaptic in the same time i think.

I played around with it for a couple of hours and it seemed ok but just that install time was enough to put me off so...off it came again.Its probably the least ive liked any of the half dozen or so distros i`ve tried.I suppose the "install time" alone is a pretty lame excuse for not really liking a distro but still.

The question is though.......could that Green have any effect on the "Blue V Brown" debate::wink:

EDIT I used a cd but someone else i know who tried it says the DVD installed in 30Mins?

The fonts are much worse on openSuse. They are just terrible. Ubuntu beats them by a mile.

And I used the CD as well and installed in 30 minutes.

With my CRT monitor in openSUSE I always do the same:

• Configure the X server to use the *real* DPI value. In my case, with a 1024x768 resolution it is 79x79dpi.
• Configure /etc/sysconfig/fonts-config with EMBEDDED_BITMAPS_LANGUAGES="no" and BYTECODE_BW_MAX_PIXEL="18" (with the YaST sysconfig editor module)
• Install the Microsoft fonts. With openSUSE 10.3 configuration that means Times New Roman for serif, Arial for sans-serif, and Andale Mono for monospace.

And it looks perfect...

If you don't install the Microsoft fonts there is still a difference if you install or don't the Agfa fonts from the Non-OSS repository/CD. If you don't install propietary fonts the default ones are DejaVu.

RedDwarf said: Isn't every distribution doing this? It was disabled upstream: http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/freetype-cvs/2006-09/msg00020.html

Is Ubuntu reenabling it?

All I know is there's an unofficial patch for improving subpixel hinting for Feisty. And Gutsy comes with it by default.

OpenSuse for me was ok but always left me wanting something more. Also the complete download for me ended up being 4 disc which sucked when trying to install programs and having to insert 3 disc to install one simple program. Ubuntu is just an excellent distro that is well thought out. It is the first linux distro that i can actually see myself converting completely from windows on.

openSUSE 10.3 is available as a 1 CD install for either KDE or Gnome. Both these and other environments are offered on the install DVD.

When I first start using openSUSE 10.3, I realize Ubuntu sucks. On my laptop computer, openSUSE can run programs times times faster than Ubuntu.

twinklellon said: openSUSE can run programs times times faster than Ubuntu.

That's wonderful news. Perhaps you'd like to post the evidence.

twinklellon said: On my laptop computer, openSUSE can run programs times times faster than Ubuntu.

I sure didn't see any evicence of that. :D

DAMN, I hates suse 10.2's performance problems but 10.3 is a HUGE improvement. Lighting fast compared to even ubuntu imo. Compiz runs much better. Everything just seems snappier for some reason. Suse's gnome runs circles around ubuntu's also, everything is just so polished, no ugly blurry icons all over like ubuntu.

Pros, nvidia drivers ect now very easy, go into yast>online repositories you can easily enable multimedia(pacman), nvidia, ati ect.. (Or you can use suse's new 1 click install for the drivers which I did before I found I could enable nvidia repos) with a checkmark. package management is MUCH MUCH faster. It seems rock solid so far no crashes, freezes at ALL. I'm loving the stability and speed compared to ubuntu so far, and the polished gui is my favorite part about suse. The way all the apps have matching splash screens and firefox has an amazing lookign theme are great. Also firefox doesn't constantly freeze like with other distros.

There are some cons though

The install took forever still, it tried to set up dual boot with vista which stopepd vista from booting.

It didn't enable HT on my p4 like EVERY OTHER DISTRO DOES AUTOMATICALLY WTF. I had to add acpi=ht or something in the boot loader options and now it's much aster with ht on/rant

I ran into alot more problems setting suse up than ubuntu, like ahving to enable ht, and when I installed the nvidia driver, it didn't work util I entered some command to enable it, but it does come with flash/java/mp3 preinstalled making things a bit easier. In my opinion the only thing ubuntu really holds over suse is the amazing community, VERY easy install/setup and vast amount of packages.

So far only two distros can properly suspend my laptop (IBM Lenovo T60):

1. Sidux
2. OpenSuse 10.3

All the others lock up and cause the screen to go black or just never wake up.

I'm currently running Mandriva One 2008 and that seems pretty snappy so far, but alas, suspend doesn't work in this distro either. I may have to put OpenSuse back on just so i can enjoy Suspend... :popcorn:

Just tried opensuse 10.3 and the ubuntu gutsy release candidate. opensuse seems, like everyone else is saying, way way more polished. Everything is more coordinated, from the wallpaper to splash screens (including the openoffice splash screen) to gtk themes, logon screen, GRUB screen, loading screen, and the icons. It runs faster and loads faster too. Its also nice that, when partitioning, all it takes is marking a checkbox and setting a password to use an encrypted drive. SLED is pretty handy, too. I can also use the 64-bit version of opensuse and flash works (almost) out of the box, which is a nice improvement. Finally, I can compile avant-window-navigator and awn-curves in opensuse, but for some reason it doesn't want to work in ubuntu (I know there's a repository, but it doesn't have awn-curves). I also like that opensuse defaults to banshee rather than rhythmbox, but that's easy enough to fix.

However, installing apps is kinda painful in opensuse - the installer just doesn't seem as together as synaptic, and of course since ubuntu rose in popularity it seems like everything is available as an ubuntu deb and next to nothing as an opensuse rpm. opensuse's repositories also seem a little lacking. I also like that the new ubuntu uses tracker instead of beagle... It was also a nice touch on the part of repository maintainers to not make certain packages (*cough*evolution, rhythmbox) dependencies of ubuntu-desktop, whereas the opensuse installer still complains if you try to remove them.

It would be nice if we could get the best of both worlds (maybe in gutsy + 1?) - encrypted drives, a lot more polish (like a lot of people, I'm getting tired of the brown - move up to oranges and greens maybe), graphical GRUB screens and a more attractive loading screen (the bootup->login combination of tans, browns, black, and oranges is just awful), nicer defaults for icons, gtk, login screen, and openoffice visual customization (if we're going to focus on brown themes, openoffice's splash screen should *not* be blue - it would also be nice if openoffice defaulted to a font that is actually attractive, something in the bitstream vera family maybe), and firefox integration (again, a custom ubuntu firefox theme and attractive font defaults) out of the box. Mainly what ubuntu is still lacking is visual polish - from the beginning it has seemed (visually) like a collection of applications, not a unified system. A little software integration would be nice too - smooth transitions from openoffice to firefox to nautilus to pidgin to gimp, for example.

smah77 said: the installer just doesn't seem as together as synaptic

So use Synaptic -> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/rbos/openSUSE_10.3/repodata/repoview/synaptic-0-0.57.2-11.1.html

smah77 said: it seems like everything is available as an ubuntu deb and next to nothing as an opensuse rpm

For example? avant-window-navigator is also available in OBS -> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/FunkyM/openSUSE_10.3/repodata/repoview/avant-window-navigator-0-0.2-10.1.html Ubuntu has more packages, but with Packman+OBS openSUSE has a lot more than "next to nothing". OBS is splitted in a lot of repositories, but you just need to use the search and then use the 1-Click Install that is available for every package. http://software.opensuse.org/search?p=1&baseproject=openSUSE%3A10.3&q=avant-window-navigator

Pascal Bleser made some estimations about the number of packages in: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2007-09/msg00074.html

RedDwarf said: So use Synaptic -> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/rbos/openSUSE_10.3/repodata/repoview/synaptic-0-0.57.2-11.1.html

Oh, nice! I had kind of wondered if that was possible. I'll try it.

RedDwarf said: For example? avant-window-navigator is also available in OBS -> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/FunkyM/openSUSE_10.3/repodata/repoview/avant-window-navigator-0-0.2-10.1.html

Ubuntu has more packages, but with Packman+OBS openSUSE has a lot more than "next to nothing". OBS is splitted in a lot of repositories, but you just need to use the search and then use the 1-Click Install that is available for every package. http://software.opensuse.org/search?p=1&baseproject=openSUSE%3A10.3&q=avant-window-navigator

Pascal Bleser made some estimations about the number of packages in: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2007-09/msg00074.html

"Next to nothing" wasn't referring to the repos, but to downloadable RPMS available outside of repos. Avant-window-navigator and conduit, for example, both have the latest versions available as ubuntu debs, but not as rpms for opensuse (though awn, like I said above, actually compiles for me on opensuse and not on ubuntu). The opensuse repositories do feel smaller, even with packman, but no, I wouldn't say that they have next to nothing.

Another quick opensuse gripe (written, by the way, while I'm using opensuse): compiz-fusion seems to have more issues. Sometimes when I login it wants to take its options from the simplified desktop effects settings, and sometimes from compizconfig. Sometimes it loads fine, sometimes it doesn't. And it never remembers my key bindings for the shift switcher plugin. It could, I guess, be an issue with the version that's available in the repos, but I haven't gone poking around there yet.

openSuSE 10.3 is an excellent distro imo. Very fast, nice idea with 1-click install and no problems with video card and wireless like I've had with Ubuntu - experience and some intuition hepled me get over those problems in about 10 minutes in Ubuntu but some friends of mine took 2 weeks. So far nothing went wrong in openSuSE (for me at least, because my girlfriend had a slight problem with Eclipse IDE, but she installed from gnome CD not from DVD like me).

So, I'll stick to openSuSE for the moment because I need sth a little more stable than Ubuntu (which is great and easy to use for beginners and for those who like experimenting) and better for actual work... and since I've started school and work I need stability.

But the fight continues... If U ask me Ubuntu, openSuSE, Fedora, Mandriva imo are starting an Ultimate Showdown in terms of best distro for the desktop. Hope it lasts a long time... everyone has only to gain from it :D

RebounD11 said: my girlfriend had a slight problem with Eclipse IDE, but she installed from gnome CD not from DVD like me

FIXED -> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=331618

Thanx, it works now. :)

I installed OpenSuse yesterday and it feels a little slow (I use KDE version). Also yesterday I did a fresh install of Gutsy, and it also felt slow. In fact, when idling after just turning it on it used about 250 MB of RAM!!! When I was using Feisty with Beryl (on high visual settings) it would use about 190~210 MB of RAM. I didnt see the resource consumption of OpenSuse but it felt even more sluggish than Gutsy. So I am still contemplating "downgrading" to Feisty, whick IMHO is better than OpenSuse or Gutsy...

Random side note , I hate YAST.

sx66gns said: Random side note , I hate YAST.

Why do you think so?

In my experience, openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) is far more stable and harder to break than ubnutu 7.10 (AMD64). :)

Just wish that suspend issues were fixed out of the box on both distros!

njparton said: In my experience, openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) is far more stable and harder to break than ubnutu 7.10 (AMD64). :)

Just wish that suspend issues were fixed out of the box on both distros!

I guess it depends in your hardware. Opensuse 10.3 suspends great on my x86 laptops. The only thing I had issues with was the buggy knetworkmanager (seems buggy in Fedora8 too). So I disabled networkmanager in YAST and use the ifup option with Kinternet.:guitar:

njparton said: In my experience, openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) is far more stable and harder to break than ubnutu 7.10 (AMD64). :)

Just wish that suspend issues were fixed out of the box on both distros!

OpenSUSE does not suspend out of the box for me either, though Ubuntu does. It's easy enough to fix in openSUSE though following this page.

http://en.opensuse.org/Pm-utils

Feels more stable and faster then Gutsy on my system as well.

Cheers for the link - I'll have a look.

The only reason for me not to recommend openSUSE to anyone is the installer (especially the partitioner).

Apart from that openSUSE rocks (so far...).

njparton said: Cheers for the link - I'll have a look.

The only reason for me not to recommend openSUSE to anyone is the installer (especially the partitioner).

Apart from that openSUSE rocks (so far...).

The partitioner does need an update. Why they ask for the start and ending cylinder rather then the amount of space you want to use is beyond me. Aside from that, the new YaST live installer is pretty nice. Reminds me a bit of the Ubuntu installer.

The only mistake I made was not deselecting the online repository. It took AGES to install because of that.

Almost as long as my Xubnutu on a CF card trial, but not quite ;)

Incense said: The partitioner does need an update. Why they ask for the start and ending cylinder rather then the amount of space you want to use is beyond me. Aside from that, the new YaST live installer is pretty nice. Reminds me a bit of the Ubuntu installer.

You can put the amount of space in that area using the 'setup custom partition' or whatever... In the end block put the size in 30.0GB or 0.5MB, etc, etc...

dca said: You can put the amount of space in that area using the 'setup custom partition' or whatever... In the end block put the size in 30.0GB or 0.5MB, etc, etc...

Still not very user friendly though you must admit?

njparton said: Still not very user friendly though you must admit?

For me the SuSE partitioner was the most user friendly, without lacking in options, I've ever seen. I like it, and I liked it when I was first installing Linux on my computer, so I guess it depends on the user :D

Oh man. At this point it REALLY depends. If you want to do networking I don't think there's a distro that holds a candle to Suse. For a desktop distro though... argh, it depends. I tried installing Suse on one of my laptops and it totally screwed partitioning AND the boot sector. I popped in Ubuntu live CD, got instant internet connection, trolled some forums, fixed the mess Suse left me with and proceeded installing Ubuntu.

On my other (older) laptop, however, I could not get Ubuntu to work for me. It was way too much hassle. Almost as much as installing Gentoo. I popped in Suse 10.3 installation CD and BOOM, all hardware recognized and everything.

Suse is good. Ubuntu is better. Yes it may seem ugly at first but Ubuntu community rocks oh so hard and looks can, and should, be remedied with the help of some cool dudes from gnome-look.org. Kubuntu looks pretty good from the git-go but if you don't like default Kubuntu stuff then off to kde-look.org you go.

Oh, one more thing... Ubuntu Rocks!!!

That's the main thing I love about Linux; there is always a distro for everyone. :guitar:

The ubuntu community support and spirit is definitely superior to that from the suse community.

njparton said: The ubuntu community support and spirit is definitely superior to that from the suse community.

I have thought about this and in my opinion, this is because most of the openSUSE users are quite familiar with linux and openSUSE or have been using it for a long time so they have a "fix it yourself" philosophy. openSUSE has been around more than Ubuntu and has been the pinnacle of European linux along with Mandriva.

In contrast, because of Ubuntu's popularity (and some might say hype) many Ubuntu users are linux newbies and are rightfully so drawn to these forums. The Ubuntu forums are unique and are supported/sponsored by Canonical, whereas the openSUSE forums are fragmented (2) and user initiatives.

In my experience, I think that even though the openSUSE forums are less popular, the replies there are more "to the point" whereas in Ubuntu forums there can more "noisy".

Again, that's just my opinion. Still, as an openSUSE and Ubuntu user I would have liked for the openSUSE forums to merge and have the same atmosphere to the one here!

Castar said: Again, that's just my opinion. Still, as an openSUSE and Ubuntu user I would have liked for the openSUSE forums to merge and have the same atmosphere to the one here!

I 2nd that point!

njparton said: I 2nd that point!

I agree... I spend most of my time in the Ubuntu forums verses any other linux forum; I guess you can say I am a little addicted :lolflag:

Antman said: I agree... I spend most of my time in the Ubuntu forums verses any other linux forum; I guess you can say I am a little addicted :lolflag:

Yeah, even when I'm not using Ubuntu, I find myself making my way to these forums above any other. The community here is just a lot of fun, and very passionate about linux.... that and compiz.

OpenSuSE 10.3 is a great distro in my opinion. It's very professional and integrates perfectly with network services. Windows login, SMB shares, everything that a professional entity would need just *works*. It's also a beautiful distro, one of my favorite in the looks department. Proprietary codecs and security software can be installed/enabled at install. Plus, you can create an image of the newly installed system (yes, with YaST) and burn it to a disc so you can copy the system to multiple computers quickly.

As for YaST, yes, it sucks. In theory, it's a great idea. Imagine having all your package management and computer administration in the same place, just a few clicks away...but also imagine a horridly small list of packages and miserable handling of dependencies. I remember I was trying to compile a package from source, and I searched for about 30 minutes for all the individual dependencies. Now, that's understandable, I guess. Problem is, I couldn't find half of them. For example, it said I needed a Python library, so I installed the "full Python development" package and all libraries. Still, no dice.

Ubuntu is much more bare-bones, with an emphasis on simplicity and customization. I prefer things that way, because I know that if it gets bloated and slow there's no one to blame but myself.

APT is a great package service, and Synaptic/Adept is a thousand times better than YaST. It handles dependencies very well. Plus, the Ubuntu repositories are the best I have ever seen.

It all depends on what you're going for, but if you want a professional distro and you have a fast computer, I'd go with OpenSuSE. For a mid-grade computer, or just a distro for everyday use, go Ubuntu.

can someone point me to a few good reads on ubuntu v Suse, (with gutsy I can't suspend / hibernate) so I'm thinking of changing over to Suse, but installing / uninstalling apps seems to be more of a headache here.

opensuse 10.3 vs Ubuntu 7.10

I don't find the reviewer very well informed, there are factual errors, and he/she didn't even spell check the article but anyway it's a comparison. I would look for others.

edit: IMO the review is misinformed junk, too much very badly wrong stuff. Ignore it all except the screenshots! This guy claims openSuse's Open Office contains proprietary MS code (!) and also doesn't realise that AppArmor in openSuse has some profiles loaded by default whereas Ubuntu simply ships with it completely unconfigured.

openSuse has 1-Click install for applications so installing apps should be very easy. You can see an example here http://abhay-techzone.blogspot.com/2007/11/1-click-install-of-gimp-24-on-opensuse.html

I haven't used this version of openSuse but heard the 1-Click install is excellent.

julian67 said: and also doesn't realise that AppArmor in openSuse has some profiles loaded by default whereas Ubuntu simply ships with it completely unconfigured.

Well, "completely unconfigured" is not completely true. Ubuntu's apparmor ships just with most profiles run in complain mode:

# aa-status
apparmor module is loaded.
16 profiles are loaded.
3 profiles are in enforce mode.
   /usr/lib/cups/backend/cups-pdf
   /usr/sbin/cupsd
   /usr/sbin/avahi-daemon
13 profiles are in complain mode.
   /usr/sbin/identd
   /usr/sbin/ntpd
   /sbin/klogd
   /usr/sbin/nmbd
   /sbin/syslogd
   /usr/sbin/smbd
   /usr/sbin/mysqld
   /sbin/syslog-ng
   /usr/sbin/traceroute
   /usr/sbin/nscd
   /bin/ping
   /usr/sbin/mdnsd
   /usr/sbin/named
7 processes have profiles defined.
3 processes are in enforce mode :
   /usr/sbin/avahi-daemon (5910)
   /usr/sbin/cupsd (5407)
   /usr/sbin/avahi-daemon (5909)
4 processes are in complain mode.
   /sbin/klogd (5205)
   /sbin/syslogd (5147)
   /usr/sbin/mysqld (5552)
   /usr/sbin/ntpd (5885)
0 processes are unconfined but have a profile defined.

What amazes me, is how openSUSE stays up-to-date with their stable releases. With some of the build-service repositories you can always have the latest Kernel, KDE, Gnome, Compiz, etc. stuff. Very nice.

complain mode means there is not yet a useful profile, you have to make one yourself ;-)

edit: to correct my earlier post I should say that there are no pre-configured *application* profiles in Ubuntu's AppArmor. Clearly several daemons and system tools are protected out of the box.

lespaul_rentals said: OpenSuSE 10.3 is a great distro in my opinion. It's very professional and integrates perfectly with network services. Windows login, SMB shares, everything that a professional entity would need just *works*. It's also a beautiful distro, one of my favorite in the looks department. Proprietary codecs and security software can be installed/enabled at install. Plus, you can create an image of the newly installed system (yes, with YaST) and burn it to a disc so you can copy the system to multiple computers quickly.

As for YaST, yes, it sucks. In theory, it's a great idea. Imagine having all your package management and computer administration in the same place, just a few clicks away...but also imagine a horridly small list of packages and miserable handling of dependencies. I remember I was trying to compile a package from source, and I searched for about 30 minutes for all the individual dependencies. Now, that's understandable, I guess. Problem is, I couldn't find half of them. For example, it said I needed a Python library, so I installed the "full Python development" package and all libraries. Still, no dice.

Ubuntu is much more bare-bones, with an emphasis on simplicity and customization. I prefer things that way, because I know that if it gets bloated and slow there's no one to blame but myself.

APT is a great package service, and Synaptic/Adept is a thousand times better than YaST. It handles dependencies very well. Plus, the Ubuntu repositories are the best I have ever seen.

It all depends on what you're going for, but if you want a professional distro and you have a fast computer, I'd go with OpenSuSE. For a mid-grade computer, or just a distro for everyday use, go Ubuntu.

I agree. Searching for packages via Yast is very poor and apt/synaptic much better in that department.

Yast is too slow... package management should be an easy thing to do. Try installing an app on a mac and then try it on openSUSE :lolflag:

openSUSE's package management has been very much improved for 10.3. It is very fast compared to previous versions. The slow feeling is given by the fact that zypper automatically refreshes all repositories before searching/installing/removing a package. If they change that, I wouldn't think it's slower that Ubuntu's apt.

Also, concerning dependencies. It's all in the repositories! If the repositories are good, then there should be no dependencies issues! Ubuntu, in true Debian spirit, stays with the same repositories for every release and Ubuntu users rarely need to install any third-party repos. This also means that users stay with the same versions of programs for the lifetime of the release. The same is true with openSUSE, if one stays with the official repositories! I have yet to find a dependency issue with openSUSE! Now, if one starts adding up repositories with newer software etc. then it's natural that eventually breakage will happen as I have experienced even with Ubuntu!

What I like in openSUSE is that I always have the latest version of the most popular software when I want to. The packaging system might be slower that Ubuntu's due to the refreshing issue but I cannot think of something that Synaptic can do that YaST cannot.

as a new convert to LINUX, i find Open Suse 10.3 easier to configure than Ubuntu 7.10 or 7.04 for dual booting. in fact open suse is a delight as far as dual booting is concerned.

regards

YaST does an amazing job as a control panel, and I really have no problem with the package managment. I do have SMART installed though, which is much faster then YaST if you just want a quick install from the CLI. I would even say it's just as fast as APT.

If you just use the basic repositories probably YaST is good enough. But say you want to install Stellarium that is available in the Education:desktop OBS repository. You add the repository and install it, everything ok. But then you want to make an update an it says it wants to update half the kde4 packages, gsl, dosbox, inkscape and xfig. That can happen without the user noticing since the 1-click system adds repositories automatically to add new software. With smart this isn't a problem since you can assign different "priorities" to repositories (and packages).

Any anyway. Why "zypper lu" is saying me I need to apply two patches, for libiniparser-32bit and openmotif22-libs, when I don't have any of these programs installed?

~> zypper lu
...
Repository:            | Name               | Version | Category | Status
-----------------------+--------------------+---------+----------+-------
Main Update Repository | libiniparser-32bit | 4488-0  | optional | Needed
Main Update Repository | openmotif22-libs   | 4540-0  | optional | Needed
~> rpm -qa | grep libiniparser
libiniparser-2.17-25
~> rpm -qa | grep openmotif
openmotif-libs-2.3.0-23

I would not recommend the libzypp based/official software management stack from openSUSE to nobody. Pre-10.3 versiones were really bad, and 10.3 version isn't much better. But since you can use apt-get, yum, or smart with openSUSE this isn't a problem...

I'm an active openSUSE bug reporter. I receive a free openSUSE box with every realease because of this. But libzypp software management stack is sooooo broken I never report bugs about it... any developer using it for a week should be able to see enough bugs for himself to have work for months.

I like both. But, If I had to choose, my choice would be Ubuntu. I just find it a lot more clean. Like, When you install it for the first time there are no icons on your desktop. Which I like. If you are new to Linux I recommend Suse. Because, It comes with everything you need. In my opinion I think Suse feels a little bloated. Yast is improving. Yast is nice because you can manage and deploy everything in one place. I think the Ubuntu installation is a lot smoother as well.

I am trying SuSE 10.3 now, it is downloading I have heart that SuSE has the most beautiful "face".

jmedina said: In my opinion I think Suse feels a little bloated.

I hear comments like this all the time, and I'm still not sure what it means for an OS to be bloated. Is it because it comes with more software (or too much software?), has a DVD installer? I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, I just really want to know.

That's how I interpret bloated.. too much useless sofware or more programs doing the same thing and wasitng disk space and RAM...

Although I am curious what everyone thinks about this word...

Incense said: I hear comments like this all the time, and I'm still not sure what it means for an OS to be bloated.

I guess it normally means that there are a lot of services and other processor/system things that are loaded that slow down the performance of the system.

Whenever I boot into Sidux, I see how sweet it is to run a streamlined distro. Boots fast, shuts down fast, and runs applications fast.

But really, I have been running Opensuse 10.3 for a while now and I like it. It's not the fastest distro out there, but it works well on my hardware.

I agree. Once somebody told me that they like opensuse better than Ubuntu, Because it comes with everything they need. Some people like that. But, Some people think it is too bloated.

You can choose the programs you want during the installation, which I can't say about Ubuntu...

There is only one good thing about Suse Linux and that is Yast (other distros please copy) everything else is rubbish. I have tried every version from 10.0 to 10.3 and you would have thought that over 4 distros something would have improved, but oh no!

I tried 10.3 last week and as with every other version after install I was left with an 800x600 vesa graphics desktop with no sound, no network and no internet connection. I must say I was pleasantly surprised to find that my mouse worked this time - usually that is broken too. What a contrast to install Ubuntu or Mint and find that nearly all these things work straight away (well not networking in Ubuntu but that is another story).

How Novell can manage to sell this system is a mystery to me.

The exact opposite happened to me.

OpenSuSE 10.3 just works... and to be honest I never heard of SuSE running that bad on any system so far, and that includes SuSE 10.1 which was a wreck of an OS.

Once somebody told me that they like opensuse better than Ubuntu, Because it comes with everything they need. Some people like that. But, Some people think it is too bloated.

GNU/Linux: Have it your way.....Have it your way. (Sounds like a commercial. hahahaha)

RebounD11 said: The exact opposite happened to me.

OpenSuSE 10.3 just works... and to be honest I never heard of SuSE running that bad on any system so far, and that includes SuSE 10.1 which was a wreck of an OS.

+1

been using SuSE since the 8 days, and it has ALWAYS detected my hardware like a champ.

BTW, I thought the Linux community as a whole agreed never to mention 10.1 again! How can we forget that dark time if you keep reminding us! ](*,)

viking777 said: How Novell can manage to sell this system is a mystery to me.

Obvioulsy is because your situation is very rare. And because is very rare is unprobable that another user had the same problem and reported it... so *you* must report the problems if you want any better support in openSUSE 11.0.

http://bugzilla.novell.com/

I used SuSE 10.0 and it was just SLOW ! All the apps were slow to load as well. Yast took a very long time to load. I just love using apt-get/cache. I've tried a lot of distros and Ubuntu fits the bill for me. They all have their strong points but I like Ubuntu.

g4ry.l33 said: Yast took a very long time to load. I just love using apt-get/cache.

If you want a command line package manager in Opensuse, try Zypper. It's not apt-get/cache but it's quicker then using Yast for package management.

g4ry.l33 said: I used SuSE 10.0 and it was just SLOW ! All the apps were slow to load as well.

Yast took a very long time to load. I just love using apt-get/cache. I've tried a lot of distros and Ubuntu fits the bill for me. They all have their strong points but I like Ubuntu.

On top of using Zypper on the CLI, you can also install and run SMART which is just as fast as apt. If you really want, you can even install apt4rpm on SuSE! Anyway, YaST on 10.3 is A LOT faster then it was in 10.0. Worth looking at again if you want to try something new.

Hello,

I used suse for 3 years now. Suse 9 , Suse 10 , Suse 10.1 , Suse 10.2 , Suse 10,3. In parallel, I was interested with ubuntu. I ordered a free CD of ubuntu 6.10 to try it and I was disappointed! a lot of drivers not found a lot of things not working well, too slow on my laptop, battery saving is a shame ....

On the other hand, Suse was working very well during 5 to 6 months after installation.. then the problems appear and when you are updating the system, you are just killing it slowly...

So I decided to go back to windows :) things are not going so good but it's just working!

Lately I discovered the latest ubuntu 7.10. I ordered a CD, tried the live CD and BINGO! stable and fast booting so I installed it and guess what? it recognize my PCMCIA TV tuner (out of box) and my intel wifi and my LCD laptop monitor and VGA even the modem! so I installed it on the server PC and the kids pc too :)

Till now everything is OK and better than OK! I am satisfied!

I think the fact that suse is under too version is making the opensuse like a test OS when Ubuntu is a true stable OS...

Beside, Ubuntu support is very effective resolving problems and learning how to use the OS.

I started with SLAX back in the day on a 286 and went over to Debian when I got my 486. Then, like most people, I moved to Red Hat and stayed with it until SUSE 10.0. I loved SUSE but experienced a critical error with the Update Manager that was pretty wide spread and the response from Novell was that it would be fixed in 10.1. Not the response I wanted so I jumped on the Ubuntu ban wagon. At first I was pretty disappointed that Ubuntu was missing allot of the bells and whistles SUSE had and Ubuntu was not as well suited for developers as, I felt, SUSE was. Then I tried Kubuntu; before it was an official derivative, and was more impressed with it than I was with Ubuntu but then I switched to Linux Mint and am very happy with it. The only problem I am having is that there is no official Linux Mint KDE edition anymore and with KDE 4 coming out I am looking to find a distro with an official KDE edition. Leaving me with two heavy weight contenders, SUSE and Kubuntu. I know there are allot of other distros with KDE flavors and less notable distros that use KDE but SUSE and Kubuntu are the distros I have whittled my choices down to. I loved Adept but I also loved YaST. I love ENVY but can use YaST without too much difficulty to install my proprietary graphics driver. Both have AppArmour and neither have Pax or Exec Shield (for this reason alone I was considering forgoing KDE 4 and running Fedora 8 with Gnome). Does anyone have any special info or experience with either distro that could help me make this decision? Please and thank you! :)

Ok. When i jumped ship to linux i chose OpenSuSe for one reason. Automation. If you are new to linux like i was and had never used a command line then SuSE is for you. After a few bad experiences in SuSE (since i just jumped ship from XP one day and stayed linux exclusive) i decided i'd give Ubuntu a shot. Why, cause whenever i googled how to solve a problem in suse i always found an answer for ubuntu first. So i installed Kubuntu (I installed SuSE with kde) and got a feel of the debian system. Now i am running ubuntu with kbunutu apps installed from "apt-get install kubuntu". I could not be happier and wish i would have started with K/ubuntu

dhruvb14 said: Why, cause whenever i googled how to solve a problem in suse i always found an answer for ubuntu first.

Yes, the Ubuntu forums are pretty awesome. :guitar:

Having tried a few different distros, I never have tried Suse. I think im going to just to see what the fuss is about..

Well, my second lappie's getting formatted again... My primary computer is still betting on Buntu, though ;)

dhruvb14 said: Why, cause whenever i googled how to solve a problem in suse i always found an answer for ubuntu first.

So every single problem in openSUSE is also found in Ubuntu? So "# problems in Ubuntu" >= "# problems in openSUSE"... conclusion: openSUSE is better. :lolflag:

RedDwarf said: So every single problem in openSUSE is also found in Ubuntu? So "# problems in Ubuntu" >= "# problems in openSUSE"... conclusion: openSUSE is better. :lolflag:

Ah-hah! Nice try. Every single SOLUTION for openSUSE is also found in Ubuntu. Therefore "ratio of solutions to problems in Ubuntu" >= "ratio of solutions to problems in openSUSE"... conclusion: Ubuntu is better. :lolflag:

That said, I really want to get OS running on my machine. It "feels" better than anything I've used so far for some reason. I just can't get it to work.

SomeGuyDude said: Ah-hah! Nice try. Every single SOLUTION for openSUSE is also found in Ubuntu. Therefore "ratio of solutions to problems in Ubuntu" >= "ratio of solutions to problems in openSUSE"... conclusion: Ubuntu is better. :lolflag:

That said, I really want to get OS running on my machine. It "feels" better than anything I've used so far for some reason. I just can't get it to work.

We could probably say that every most distos have similar issues, and the ubuntu forums are a great place to find solutions to those problems because they have the biggest and best community (right now).

I really don't know that I would say SuSE is better then Ubuntu, or vice versa. It's really just what works best on your hardware, and (as you said) what "feels" best.

Incense said: We could probably say that every most distos have similar issues, and the ubuntu forums are a great place to find solutions to those problems because they have the biggest and best community (right now).

I really don't know that I would say SuSE is better then Ubuntu, or vice versa. It's really just what works best on your hardware, and (as you said) what "feels" best.

Hey, I was just responding in kind! :guitar:

I think SuSe has, strange as it sounds, a greater "presence" than Ubuntu. It looks and feels like a real professional distro while most others feel like a project made by individuals. YaST, for all its flaws, is a great concept and I love the menu. If I could get compiz running and the boot time was faster, I'd have it on this machiine.

SomeGuyDude said: Hey, I was just responding in kind! :guitar:

I think SuSe has, strange as it sounds, a greater "presence" than Ubuntu. It looks and feels like a real professional distro while most others feel like a project made by individuals. YaST, for all its flaws, is a great concept and I love the menu. If I could get compiz running and the boot time was faster, I'd have it on this machiine.

You know, it's kind of funny. For all the work that Novell has done in the past for XGL and all that, I find it near impossible to get compiz working on my SuSE install. I have no worries on that front in Ubuntu, but it's always a no go in SuSE.

I would also agree fully with the professional feel of SuSE, and that extra level of polish is what keeps SuSE on my main machine, and Ubuntu off. Even though Ubuntu is easier to setup, and apt is a thousand times faster then YaST (not faster then SMART though) I still keep openSUSE running. Good times.

Incense said: You know, it's kind of funny. For all the work that Novell has done in the past for XGL and all that, I find it near impossible to get compiz working on my SuSE install. I have no worries on that front in Ubuntu, but it's always a no go in SuSE.

I loved how the desktop effects were implemented in SLED 10. It worked like a champ on my desktop. I haven't even played with effects in Opensuse. Maybe that will be my project for the weekend. :popcorn:

SomeGuyDude said: Ah-hah! Nice try. Every single SOLUTION for openSUSE is also found in Ubuntu. Therefore "ratio of solutions to problems in Ubuntu" >= "ratio of solutions to problems in openSUSE"... conclusion: Ubuntu is better. :lolflag:

But if there exists a solution is because there was a problem. "# solutions" >= "# problems", so:

• "# solutions for Ubuntu" >= "# problems in Ubuntu" >= "# solutions for openSUSE" >= "# problems in openSUSE"

There exists the possibility that Ubuntu forums are so good that they provide solutions for problems that still don't exist, in which case Ubuntu is better.

:lolflag: :lolflag: :lolflag:

After installing OpenSUSE, I can say that I was pleasantly surprised! It definitely is polished and seems to be well put together. Whoever said yast is slow: wow, youre defintely right! I prefer apt to yast any day..

Another thing I prefer with Ubuntu is the alternate CD and the option for command line installs. I like being able to build my gui with apt from the command line.

OpenSUSE, though, is a very nice distro- so far its the only distro that has allowed ndiswrapper to work with knetwork manager on my 2nd lappie (broadcom).

Incense said: You know, it's kind of funny. For all the work that Novell has done in the past for XGL and all that, I find it near impossible to get compiz working on my SuSE install. I have no worries on that front in Ubuntu, but it's always a no go in SuSE.

I would also agree fully with the professional feel of SuSE, and that extra level of polish is what keeps SuSE on my main machine, and Ubuntu off. Even though Ubuntu is easier to setup, and apt is a thousand times faster then YaST (not faster then SMART though) I still keep openSUSE running. Good times.

Compiz was ten kinds of a pain. The worst part was when all my window borders vanished and I had to work to get emerald running. Yikes. Currently I'm struggling to work with themes.

I'm getting a better feel for CLI just after a few hours of SuSE thanks to the complete lack of, well, anything pre-installed. I had to put in just about every dependency just to run a simple ./configure, then install MAKE of all things.

It's like OpenSuSE is a mountain. Difficult as hell to climb, but once I'm there it'll feel great. I have it on a little 11GB partition currently just to see how long it'll take before it's full on. Then I'll see about erasing Ubuntu if it ever comes to that.

Only problem? I can have Ubuntu just like I want it in about an hour and a half. Throw the CD in, install, and 45 minutes of installing and tweaking this and that and I've got my machine just like I left it. Getting SuSE up to full speed could take HOURS even if I know exactly what I want to happen.

SomeGuyDude said: Compiz was ten kinds of a pain. The worst part was when all my window borders vanished and I had to work to get emerald running. Yikes. Currently I'm struggling to work with themes.

I'm getting a better feel for CLI just after a few hours of SuSE thanks to the complete lack of, well, anything pre-installed. I had to put in just about every dependency just to run a simple ./configure, then install MAKE of all things.

It's like OpenSuSE is a mountain. Difficult as hell to climb, but once I'm there it'll feel great. I have it on a little 11GB partition currently just to see how long it'll take before it's full on. Then I'll see about erasing Ubuntu if it ever comes to that.

Only problem? I can have Ubuntu just like I want it in about an hour and a half. Throw the CD in, install, and 45 minutes of installing and tweaking this and that and I've got my machine just like I left it. Getting SuSE up to full speed could take HOURS even if I know exactly what I want to happen.

I can't believe it would take you that long. I mean, I've never set up COMPIZ or any of the "fancy" eye candy. But when I last used 10.2 it ran like a dream. I've been really wanting to install 10.3 or the gutsy but just haven't had the time to download either CD.

One more thing, have you tried using SUSES oneclick install? If so, how is it?

dawg said: I can't believe it would take you that long. I mean, I've never set up COMPIZ or any of the "fancy" eye candy. But when I last used 10.2 it ran like a dream. I've been really wanting to install 10.3 or the gutsy but just haven't had the time to download either CD.

One more thing, have you tried using SUSES oneclick install? If so, how is it?

OpenSUSE can be a PITA. Its nice, polished and works well, but I hit dependency issues within 20 minutes of the install. No big deal and it only took a few minutes to fix, but still. I dont care for the way the repos are setup...

Its prolly just my lack of familiarity, and things will go smooth later on.

Still have a Buntu variant on my main though..

SomeGuyDude said: Compiz was ten kinds of a pain. The worst part was when all my window borders vanished and I had to work to get emerald running. Yikes. Currently I'm struggling to work with themes.

I'm getting a better feel for CLI just after a few hours of SuSE thanks to the complete lack of, well, anything pre-installed. I had to put in just about every dependency just to run a simple ./configure, then install MAKE of all things.

It's like OpenSuSE is a mountain. Difficult as hell to climb, but once I'm there it'll feel great. I have it on a little 11GB partition currently just to see how long it'll take before it's full on. Then I'll see about erasing Ubuntu if it ever comes to that.

Only problem? I can have Ubuntu just like I want it in about an hour and a half. Throw the CD in, install, and 45 minutes of installing and tweaking this and that and I've got my machine just like I left it. Getting SuSE up to full speed could take HOURS even if I know exactly what I want to happen.

I really don't have to touch the CLI very often in openSUSE. I just setup Ubuntu on my wifes computer this past weekend, and I was suprised by how often I was pulling up the CLI. There are GUI tools of course, but it is just so much eaiser to install packages, and edit the sources.list from the CLI. I love how YaST will take care of all this for me in openSUSE. The only time I really pull up the CLI in SUSE is to quickly install a package from SMART.

I do see how Ubuntu can be faster to set up, but I think the overall experience of using openSUSE makes it worth the extra time.

SomeGuyDude said: I'm getting a better feel for CLI just after a few hours of SuSE thanks to the complete lack of, well, anything pre-installed. I had to put in just about every dependency just to run a simple ./configure, then install MAKE of all things.

Tha classic complain about openSUSE was: "It is too bloated, it installs too much stuff. Why they need a full DVD???". Now there is nothing pre-installed?

Everytime I need something it is available in the repositories. The only time when I need to run ./configure && make is for some games like Super Mario War (no so common game, and that probably uses Nintendo copyright). openSUSE wants to be a distribution where you don't need to use the CLI, so the GNU toolchain isn't installed by default. But you can select the "Base Development" pattern during the installation or after, through YaST, and you will have all the basic packages (configure, make, gcc, etc.). If you want to compile against other libraries YaST has an option to install the "-devel" packages for each installed library.

RedDwarf said: Tha classic complain about openSUSE was: "It is too bloated, it installs too much stuff. Why they need a full DVD???". Now there is nothing pre-installed?

Everytime I need something it is available in the repositories. The only time when I need to run ./configure && make is for some games like Super Mario War (no so common game, and that probably uses Nintendo copyright). openSUSE wants to be a distribution where you don't need to use the CLI, so the GNU toolchain isn't installed by default. But you can select the "Base Development" pattern during the installation or after, through YaST, and you will have all the basic packages (configure, make, gcc, etc.). If you want to compile against other libraries YaST has an option to install the "-devel" packages for each installed library.

I never said SuSE was too bloated. Heck, I installed from the LiveCD, so I didn't have the big ol' DVD.

I had to run the configure/make combo to install the Domino theme dealie, but that didn't really get me anywhere. Still couldn't get themes to show up. Ah well.

RedDwarf said: Tha classic complain about openSUSE was: "It is too bloated, it installs too much stuff. Why they need a full DVD???". Now there is nothing pre-installed?

Everytime I need something it is available in the repositories. The only time when I need to run ./configure && make is for some games like Super Mario War (no so common game, and that probably uses Nintendo copyright). openSUSE wants to be a distribution where you don't need to use the CLI, so the GNU toolchain isn't installed by default. But you can select the "Base Development" pattern during the installation or after, through YaST, and you will have all the basic packages (configure, make, gcc, etc.). If you want to compile against other libraries YaST has an option to install the "-devel" packages for each installed library.

I don't even go that far. Since you can find DEB for most files thanks to Ubuntu, I just grab the DEB, alien -r it in to an RPM, then install with SMART. Have not had it fail yet.

Incense said: I don't even go that far. Since you can find DEB for most files thanks to Ubuntu, I just grab the DEB, alien -r it in to an RPM, then install with SMART. Have not had it fail yet.

Yeah, I used Alien for the first time when I installed WICD on my Opensuse laptop. It worked perfectly. :)

I just use 1-click from the BS's search :D BTW for Multimedia there is a 1-click page http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats/10.3

Sir, I insist that you select a new moniker. This will not do at all!

I just got done installing the latest version of OpenSuse on Virtualbox. Holy Christ it took forever. I could have installed Vista twice for the time it took. In any case, all said and done, I wasn't too hot on it. The GUI just doesn't do it for me.

I also noticed the EULA provisions and was wondering if that puts Suse on the outskirts of many Linux fans. I mean, that is one of the top five complaints about MS, so I figure the same must follow with Suse.

What did you use to install? I put a thread down below on the fact that the LiveCD is just balls for installation but the DVD is much nicer. Granted I have no idea how it'd work on VirtualBox since I've never used the thing, just something I figured I'd ask.

Yeah there's an EULA but frankly that doesn't bother me too much.

I used the LiveCD. I guess I'm just used to the other LiveCD's I've used in the past such as Ubuntu, Mint, Mepis, etc. They were all pretty quick.

kamaboko said: I also noticed the EULA provisions and was wondering if that puts Suse on the outskirts of many Linux fans. I mean, that is one of the top five complaints about MS, so I figure the same must follow with Suse.

You can complain because you think a *condition* from an EULA is abusive. But complain because a product comes with an EULA is plain stupid. The EULA specifies your rights. The GPL is an EULA!!!

The "Novell Software License Agreement" just says that the license that applies to each independent piece of software from openSUSE is the one that this software specifies (90% GPL). And the only limitations that Novell puts over the user is that he can't redistribute modified or splitted versions of openSUSE without removing the Novell trademarks.

kamaboko said: I used the LiveCD. I guess I'm just used to the other LiveCD's I've used in the past such as Ubuntu, Mint, Mepis, etc. They were all pretty quick.

I can do an OpenSUSE live CD install in a little over 20 mins. Maybe it was just a virt box thing, but the live install is pretty fast. What didn't you like about the GUI? Also Gnome or KDE?

The difference between ubuntu and SuSE is that SuSE don't work, but ubuntu does :D

Eriksmits596 said: The difference between ubuntu and SuSE is that SuSE don't work, but ubuntu does :D

Ok.

Eriksmits596 said: The difference between ubuntu and SuSE is that SuSE don't work, but ubuntu does :D

More correctly: Suse doesn't work for YOU!

I always appreciated openSUSE's visually appealing desktop out of the box. I'm really torn between using it for KDE4.0 or using Fedora 8 KDE4.0 LiveCD (I haven't been a fan of Kubuntu, sorry, nothing personal, just didn't care for it as much). YaST is a really neat config tool for people who haven't had too much experience with Linux and the command line yet, really easy to get stuff configured with any issues for those of us that are lazy or frustrated to the point where they don't care anymore! :) I also liked their 1-click installs, very neat for those that are new to Linux or looking for an easy solution.

I didn't like that it took forever to boot up though, I believe the developers are working on that though so it could very well be a distro to watch!

Antman said: More correctly: Suse doesn't work for YOU!

Quite right. Suse works fine!

Personally, I just prefer the look and feel of ubuntu.

AaronMiller said: YaST is a really neat config tool for people who haven't had too much experience with Linux and the command line yet, really easy to get stuff configured with any issues for those of us that are lazy or frustrated to the point where they don't care anymore! :)

Please don't regard this as a personal attack but I've never understood why it is expected from knowledgeable Linux users to have masochistic tendencies. The assumption that doing the configuration via a GUI is only for the newbs while the truly leet use the CLI is wrong on so many levels. Comfort is something that most full-time Linux users come to appreciate after the first wave of CLI-mania (at least the people I know). Plus, there are cases where a text editor is simply inferior to a GUI configuration tool. For instance, when the config file is very large (like Samba's smb.conf tends to) or uses a complex syntax it's more likely that you'll introduce errors. Plus, rather than reading several hundreds lines of text which can be tedious a GUI can parse the information and present it in a visually more appealing and comprehensible manner. It can even check input before it's committed to boot.

Erunno said: Please don't regard this as a personal attack but I've never understood why it is expected from knowledgeable Linux users to have masochistic tendencies. The assumption that doing the configuration via a GUI is only for the newbs while the truly leet use the CLI is wrong on so many levels. Comfort is something that most full-time Linux users come to appreciate after the first wave of CLI-mania (at least the people I know). Plus, there are cases where a text editor is simply inferior to a GUI configuration tool. For instance, when the config file is very large (like Samba's smb.conf tends to) or uses a complex syntax it's more likely that you'll introduce errors. Plus, rather than reading several hundreds lines of text which can be tedious a GUI can parse the information and present it in a visually more appealing and comprehensible manner. It can even check input before it's committed to boot.

+1

When you talk to Mandriva or PCLOS users, they will tell you how great the control center is. OpenSUSE/SLED users will tell you tell how great YaST is. These are just great GUI's for configuring your machine. I have a hard time in Ubuntu figuring out how to enable 3d accel, whereas in OpenSUSE I simply check a box and it's done. I just don't see a GUI as a "noob" tool.

UBUNTU Rocz ! :guitar:

BUT ! since being a new user it makes me panic while using each commands ! "some words in UBUNTU make me stand still "

mobileking said: BUT ! since being a new user it makes me panic while using each commands ! "some words in UBUNTU make me stand still "

As they should! Remember kids, Never run a command unless you know exactly what it is going to do. ;)

Cut my teeth on openSUSE 10.1 at work (yes, our non-IT office uses Linux :-) and managed to break it in 3 months - KDE wouldn't even load on startup. A friend told me to try Ubuntu since the forums are friendly :-) and I love it as much as my puppy at home, but only because of all the stuff I learned in the process of breaking SUSE; an even mixture of what I want/need from my OS and how Linux works. It is easy to love something once you understand it.

EvilDarkElf said: Cut my teeth on openSUSE 10.1 at work (yes, our non-IT office uses Linux :-) and managed to break it in 3 months - KDE wouldn't even load on startup. A friend told me to try Ubuntu since the forums are friendly :-) and I love it as much as my puppy at home, but only because of all the stuff I learned in the process of breaking SUSE; an even mixture of what I want/need from my OS and how Linux works. It is easy to love something once you understand it.

Hi EvilDarkElf! For what it's worth, openSUSE 10.1 was HORRIBLE! It was the release that drove me to start using Ubuntu. Package management was broken, X wouldn't load half the time... <shudder>. Anyway, it was all fixed in 10.2, and 10.3 is better still. Very much worth trying out.

Incense said: Hi EvilDarkElf! For what it's worth, openSUSE 10.1 was HORRIBLE! It was the release that drove me to start using Ubuntu. Package management was broken, X wouldn't load half the time... <shudder>. Anyway, it was all fixed in 10.2, and 10.3 is better still. Very much worth trying out.

OpenSuSE 10.2 drove me from KDE to Gnome... I had to attempt 4-5 times to launch an app in KDE on 10.2 while in Gnome it worked fin the first time.

I started on SuSe but had way to many problems I finally ended up on Ubuntu and I love it! Ubuntu gets my vote.

I haven't used my SuSE install in weeks because it doesn't work on the University network (it's a KNetworkManager issue). I still maintain that it's got a level of polish Ubuntu doesn't, but it seems like it's a lot more fickle with functionality. Shame, too.

SomeGuyDude said: I haven't used my SuSE install in weeks because it doesn't work on the University network (it's a KNetworkManager issue). I still maintain that it's got a level of polish Ubuntu doesn't, but it seems like it's a lot more fickle with functionality. Shame, too.

Knetwork manager does like to lose my home network a lot so I feel your pain there. Fiesty did the same thing, only it wouldn't reconnect, SuSE will at least do that for me. Win some lose some eh?

Incense said: Knetwork manager does like to lose my home network a lot so I feel your pain there. Fiesty did the same thing, only it wouldn't reconnect, SuSE will at least do that for me. Win some lose some eh?

Are you using ndiswrapper?

dca said: Are you using ndiswrapper?

My wireless was detected out of the box, so I'm just using that. Do you think I would see better performance if I was using the windows driver?

Since YAST is too slow for me, anyways, I'll wait till 11.0 to see what has changed.

sorry to wake a sleeping thread, but i found this in a google search and figured i'd chime in.

long story short: suse has its place-- so does ubuntu.

in the enterprise world, suse (and redhat) are the only linux games in town. big vendors like polyserve/hp and quantum typically limit support to either rhel or suse, so if you're in IT you're going to be most familiar with these distros. subsequently, there's a big chance you're going to end up going with them on your lap/desktops. granted, this isn't always the case (i'm an example here-- we have 100+ rhel systems at work, but i run ubuntu on my own systems), but it is the case in many instances.

on the other hand, ubuntu > rhel/suse outside of corporate environments. there is a maaaasive home user base, and subsequently tons of user/newbie friendly walkthroughs, installers, big fat repositories, etc. out there for things that aren't enterprise related. using ubuntu at home is cake; aside from a robust out of the box hardware support and an easy to use, dependency solving package manager, i oftentimes find myself googling instead of thinking when i run into a speedbump on my ubuntu systems, as ubuntu related forums are so heavily used that almost every conceivable issue has a few discussions out there-- a luxury i rarely have when solving obscure issues at work.

i definitely vote for ubuntu in the "home place", and would love to see a step-up in enterprise vendor support for the server distro as well.

Quite honestly, I find that SuSE tops on simplicity with YASt, as well as relitively detailed instructions. The down side of SuSE linux is that it's software tends to be rather bloated and it feels very Mac-like (a major downside for myself).

Ubuntu seems to be more compact, organised, and wonderful for anyone with computer experience. The main problem I see with Ubuntu is it has very little information on how to acctually do things. Somethings aren't well explained, and that is never good for any OS.

Put simply, I like both of them, it's all about what you're really looking for.

I like SuSE, but I can't use it. It has some startx error at bootup of the LiveCD. Plus, now it is too late since I have Velo to work with :D

I tried openSUSE 11 on my iMac Alu and I'll stick with it ! This thread is about comparing so let's compare SUSE to Buntu :

SUSE 11 > Ubuntu 8.04 on Imac Aluminium. No doubt about this.

I tried openSUSE with Gnome desktop and I must say it detected all nicely, backlight dimming was working out of the box, like a LOT of other things. (like the keyboard). No need to applesmc, pommed, etc.

Seriously one would want to give it a try, on my machine it works perfectly (except some grub problems I went into but nothing unresolvable).

I tried OpenSUSE 11.0 KDE 4.0, and very impressed. It looks more professional, delicate than ubuntu. But some drivers for printer and webcam not work right for me, so will wait for next releases. One big drawback of SUSE is the install system. It doesnt have big repositories like ubuntu, and does not automatically install all dependencies. I think the SUSE developers will have to improve this feature in future. For now, im sticked with ubuntu.

pxhai said: One big drawback of SUSE is the install system. It doesnt have big repositories like ubuntu, and does not automatically install all dependencies. I think the SUSE developers will have to improve this feature in future. For now, im sticked with ubuntu.

openSUSE has big repositories, not so big like Debian/Ubuntu... but there are also packages available in openSUSE that aren't available in Debian/Ubuntu (1). And it does automatically install all dependencies... has been mathematically demonstrated (2) that if there exist a solution ZYpp will find it, APT can't say the same (it is know that there are cases where it fails to find an existing solution).

(1) http://software.opensuse.org/search?baseproject=openSUSE%3A11.0&p=1&q=bsnes vs http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=bsnes&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all (2) http://pho.ucsd.edu/rjhala/papers/opium.pdf

I think opensuse takes up to much resources and has way to much configuration needed.

Ubuntu for life.:guitar:

I switched to openSUSE 2 days ago. I prefer Ubuntu, but I had a problem with the temperature on my laptop when running Ubuntu.

A lot of people reference switching from KDE to Gnome as the big difference going between SuSE and Ubuntu, but what about Kubuntu? Where does that fit here?

Yast is a bad package management tool. It is bloated in bugs! And that's what openSUSE is famous for!!!?

gjoellee said: Yast is a bad package management tool. It is bloated in bugs! And that's what openSUSE is famous for!!!?

YAST is more than a package manager and doesn't seem to have bugs on this machine.

gjoellee said: Yast is a bad package management tool. It is bloated in bugs!

Now post a link to one of these bugs... or *at very least* give a detailed description of it, and your argument will be 100 times more credible.

...or we can have a discussion where your single argument will be "yes, it's buggy" and my single argument will be "no, it isn't". Then the one that first gets tired of repeating the same phrase losses. I'm really good at it...

Seriously, in general. You can argue about which one has the most pretty desktop wallpaper using only "my opinion is...", but when you talk about bugs or resources usage "my opinion" is meaningless... we need *facts* and *numbers*.

I tried Ubuntu, Kubuntu, OpenSUSE GNOME & OpenSUSE KDE and I've chosen for OpenSUSE GNOME, I prefer OpenSUSE KDE but the current KDE 4.1 is in my opinion way too unstable for daily use.

Kubuntu is way too much neglected by Canonical and therefor stands no chance against the other three. It's way more unstable than OpenSUSE KDE, has less features and almost nothing seems to work in it... Especially Wireless internet.. I'm not even bothering checking out the newer releases of Kubuntu.

Ubuntu is a nice and simple OS and that's the main reason why it's so popular but in my opinion it's way too simple and there it has too few configuration options.. Most configurations still need to be done via the terminal if you want it to work correctly. And applications in Ubuntu work when they want to, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. God knows for what reason.. That's typical Linux behavior but Ubuntu has way too much of it. What I do like about Ubuntu was the GUI for proprietary driver, I have no idea how this works in OpenSUSE because I hadn't had to install any yet.

OpenSUSE KDE is a very nice OS but unfortunately KDE 4.1 is still too unstable for me to use it for daily use. I'm still waiting for the day I'll be able to use it. It looks nice, has great features and it's fun to work in. KDE has always been my first choice but the common crashes are way too annoying.

OpenSUSE GNOME is my favorite for now, more and more worked out-of-the-box compared to Ubuntu (see below for more info). Like Ubuntu it has a very nice look and is fun to work in. There are a lot of software packages available for OpenSUSE, perhaps not as many as for Ubuntu but still plenty. Dependencies are automatically installed every time, the 1-click install is a very nice feature.

Ubuntu problems I had right after a fresh installation:

• Wireless didn't work out-of-the-box and the usual ndiswrapper had to be used to get it partially working, yes partially because sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.. It worked out-of-the-box for a PHILIPS USB adapter for one of my sisters but recently it stopped working completely with our own PHILIPS router, though I think this may be caused by the router

• Screen resolution: man this was a pain to get it working as it should, after searching the web and Ubuntu forums I found a way to configure it (the terminal way) but it still didn't work 100%

• Keyboard numlock: this never worked for me in Ubuntu (last one I tried was 8.04), the numlock light was always on but the numeric keys weren't working so I had to press the numlock button twice every time I started the computer and logged in Ubuntu

• The UI oftenly stopped working for newly started applications so a system reboot was necessary every time it happened

• My two sisters seemed to have a lot of problems with DVD playback while it worked nicely for me in the past if I remember correctly

• Network manager was one hell of a buggy application on one of my sisters computer so I had to install Wicd instead

OpenSUSE problems I had right after a fresh installation:

• Wireless seemed to work much better than in Ubuntu, mostly it worked out-of-the-box but I still have the issue where the Wireless connection just won't work periodically after starting the computer but as mentioned in the Ubuntu part this may be caused by my router

• Sound playback & configuration wasn't working very well at the beginning using PulseAudio. It was still buggy as hell when it was included in the 11.0 beta release

• Music playback doesn't always work with OpenSUSE GNOME 11.0, I guess this is still because of the buggy Pulse Audio, media players used were Banshee & Songbird. And Banshee sometimes doesn't quit completely and prevents me from being able to start it again.

Summary of Ubuntu & OpenSUSE GNOME:

• Sound: Ubuntu: 100%, OpenSUSE: 75%
• Wireless: Ubuntu: 55%, OpenSUSE: 75%
• Screen resolution: Ubuntu: 85%, OpenSUSE: 95%
• Numlock on PC start: Ubuntu: 0%, OpenSUSE: 100%
• Video playback: Ubuntu: 65%, OpenSUSE: 90%
• Performance: Ubuntu: 95%, OpenSUSE: 90%
• Software installation/removal: Ubuntu: 99%, OpenSUSE: 99%
• OS configuration: Ubuntu: 60%, OpenSUSE: 95%
• Look & Feel: Ubuntu: 100%, OpenSUSE: 100%

I started out with Fedora, tried Ubuntu after a while and switched to Ubuntu completely because I found Ubuntu to be more user-friendly. Then I tried OpenSUSE and it became my main and favorite Linux OS.

Hi all, my second time saying something on the forums here. I've used SuSE and openSUSE for a few years now, I do agree about the package manager speed thing however never found it to be buggy, and with 11.0 it seems to have had a new breath of life, YaST is great though, like a complete control panel. Tried Ubuntu on my machine a few months back, prefer KDE so installed that and it kept falling apart after updates, back with KDE on 11.0 and I haven't had a single glitch except a few shutdown errors with Kontact. I'm no power user but can manage my way around, and thanks to Ubuntu a bit more confident in the terminal as well.

We tried installing openSUSE on a mates pc, couldn't even get to the Xserver, live cd or not. Ubuntu loaded without a hitch but he's having KDE troubles as well, he doesn't like Gnome being an unwilling XP convert thanks to major pc hiccoughs.

All in all I like both but prefer the SUSE look, feel and now performance seems great compared to 10.3 (well on my pc).

Just thought I'd add a bit to this.

And hey the Ubuntu forums rock...

I haven't used linux at all, but I will be buying a new netbook with linux SuSe installed on it, and I don't know if this is the right place to ask about this, but I am going to ask because I don't have a lot of time. Is that a good linux software to learn linux? I have friends that use linux and know that there are some amazing things that you can do with a linux based machine, and really want to learn a new system. The more information I can gather the better I think I will be about learning a new system. Thanks for the information and everyone's time.

[email]DLEHMAN1@austin.rr.com[/email] Eire

Got Suse 11.0 dual booting on two computers with Intrepid Ibex..Ubuntu has had more problems but also had more solutions.I can say for sure that Suse is no Vista (or even XP)(thanks for that)and the more Linux out there,the better.Older versions of Suse came with too much useless stuff for me but the latest version seems trimmed down. Fauna ,keep it open.