Archived thread 2330590 from Forum Members Chat. Markdown source: Forum_Members_Chat/thread_2330590_Bug_opened_against_the_CoC_for_more_explicit_conde.md
Since not all members are subscribed to the Ubuntu Community m/l I thought of starting this thread to let everyone be aware that C de-Avillez opened a bug against the CoC (Bug 1602344) to amend the CoC [0] so that it gets to be clearly visible we do not accept harassment (and, by consequence, bullying) in any form, for any reason.
We need feedback from the community, so please comment on the bug report.
The last line implies this to me , but there is no clear decoration of non-tolerance for discrimination or harassment. I'm certainly don't opposed the addition of such a sentence.
Disagreement is no excuse for poor manners. We work together to resolve conflict, assume good intentions and do our best to act in an empathic fashion. We don't allow frustration to turn into a personal attack. *A community where people feel uncomfortable or threatened is not a productive one.*
To me this is what the COC represent.
Commented.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention slickymaster.
Has anyone suggested specific wording yet? I'd find it easier to comment if I knew what wording they had in mind.
I left a comment about 'silence' and basically asked if silencing an individual (ignoring) can be considered a form of harassment. I mean to say it is one of those things which is not so easily detected with policies of transparency because nobody can see the offender actually doing it.
Regards..
ventrical said: I left a comment about 'silence' and basically asked if silencing an individual (ignoring) can be considered a form of harassment. I mean to say it is one of those things which is not so easily detected with policies of transparency because nobody can see the offender actually doing it.
Regards..In my opinion no, I have never silenced anyone but I believe if someone is bothering me I have the right to silence them if I choose, just like if I do not want someone talking to me I will walk away or not answer there phone call or the door.
Wild Man said: In my opinion no, I have never silenced anyone but I believe if someone is bothering me I have the right to silence them if I choose, just like if I do not want someone talking to me I will walk away or not answer there phone call or the door.
ahhh .. My apologies... My comments are beyond the scope of the subject matter.
regards..
I like this
The Mozilla Project welcomes and encourages participation by everyone. It doesn’t matter how you identify yourself or how others perceive you: we welcome you. We welcome contributions from everyone as long as they interact constructively with our community, including, but not limited to people of varied age, culture, ethnicity, gender, gender-identity, language, race, sexual orientation, geographical location and religious views.
From here. IMHO, this is about modernising the guidelines for participation in the community, though, not 'condemning harassment' as far as I can see. Broader than that. Discrimination is not harassment, though they can play together. ;)
Most users, at least here, do not identify as anything except male or female. That's it. "I cross-dress" or "I'm building a bomb for religio-political reasons" doesn't generally come in to it when a cross-dresser or religious loon is trying to get their wireless happening, so a lot of the time, gender is the main issue or straight up disagreement between two or three users.
I think I have made my feelings about the gender thing at least clear in the distant past, but to reiterate: we should aspire to be a unisex space, all participants equal, and gender/religion/sexual orientation or anything else should be irrelevant in the support forums. Merge my thinking with excerpts of the quote above. Therefore, any form of discrimination/harassment of any user, regardless of gender or anything else and according to the guidelines, would be infringe-able, if that's a word ...
I'm happy to see this is being revisited after a long time and thanks for posting. All are equal in virtual space, at least if it's going to be productive and constructive.
Accept others. Celebrate what diversity adds. I think that is part and parcel of what ubuntu (and Ubuntu!) is all about..
ventrical said: ahhh .. My apologies... My comments are beyond the scope of the subject matter.
regards..I may have made a mistake I thought you were asking for opinions if that is not the case I apologize.
Wild Man said: I may have made a mistake I thought you were asking for opinions if that is not the case I apologize.
I posted this as a comment on the launchpad report:
@all. What about silence? I mean to say that what if a member(s) just decide to silence another individual, ie; on outstanding bugs or requests or personal e-mails are not answered or such as with the ubuntuforums (social networking) private mails are not answered - basically - person(s) being ignored. Is this beyond the scope of harassment ? I mean "disagreement is no excuse for poor manners" is very well altruistic but if we silence or ignore others then it becomes a moot point. Regards..
So .. yes I am looking for opinions/discourse but the scenario I presented is really not topical because it is not an item that can be policed in transparent social networks. It would depend on the definition of harassment involved. Say a user is really nagging the general forums for an answer to his/her problem. One or two solutions are offered that do not work. So then the user is deferred to, lets say, ask-ubuntu site and ask-ubuntu does not have the answer so the user comes back to ubuntu-forums and keeps nagging about his/her bug in a polite way. Disagreeable, yes .. but still nagging. So then some moderator admonishes the user for being a real nag. So the end_user gets the message and forgets about the bug .. but then starts up another new bug (that is important to that end-user) and because he was admonished once and the open forum sees that he has been warned or something or other .. then other users just start to ignore his further requests. So if , say, a moderator/admin might have a particular bias against any given user and it is encouraged that this user just be ignored .. isn't that a form of harassment? That is what I meant about silencing but , as I had said, I just seen where this is not topicial to this discussion because it is not a tangible thing that can policed in a transparent way.
Regards..
I see what you mean, ventrical. And as you write, the problem of silencing can be difficult to detect. In this case I think we, who have some kind of official status (admin, moderator, ubuntu member, staff emeritus) have an extra responsibility to act wisely.
@sudodus,
As we say in the west my friend, you have broad shoulders :)
Regards..