i think this is a great effort and since i have been accepted i will start helping people with no answers more and more often right away
good job
wert
:)good idea
Archived thread 377170 from Unanswered Posts Team. Markdown source: Unanswered_Posts_Team/thread_377170_)good_idea.md
Hi fellow member(s) of unanswered post team! There is nothing as frustrating as posting an issue and getting no response.
How do you think we should respond to what appears to be obvious trolling? (Which are posts you don't want to answer, really)
hmm i would answer either in a kind way if the person is frustrated OR if they are just being nasty answer in a way that completely ignores the nastines and just answers their question
wert
wert613 said: hmm i would answer either in a kind way if the person is frustrated OR if they are just being nasty answer in a way that completely ignores the nastines and just answers their question
wert
An interesting question, there are two types of these posters 1)people who's fustration has caused them to write in an aggressive manor due to the issue-a I'll try to help you and suggestions normally you get a polite relieved reply. 2)As above, but they expect that because the os is free that professional support should be free, now I suggest that we point them to the link in my signature and also answer their question with something like.
"Hi I'm a volunteer, maybe looking at thread xyz here will help" "Hi I'm a volunteer, please work with me by typing in these commands and posting the output so I can try to help you"
We must also remember than when your new and need guidance, a simple task can be daunting. I myself am no expert, but a good search of forums and google will allow me to answer at least some obscure unanswered posts:lolflag:
Bit I find hard is not answering a post when I can't say anything productive, because it looks like we don't care and if you do answer you give false hope:(
saphil said:
How do you think we should respond to what appears to be obvious trolling? (Which are posts you don't want to answer, really) Hi all :) May I suggest also reporting the post for the staff to handle any difficult situation ? Cheers to you, bapoumba.
This was one idea mssever sent me before the team was officially set up:
Triage team. This would be the main group of people. The triage team would regularly check for unanswered posts (older than some threshold, maybe 2 hours, to allow regular forum processes to run their course before we kick in) and handle them in one of the following ways:
The main point of his idea is the third bullet down, and it could be a key technique if done right. We would essentially have a database of team members and expert areas. When a thread is encountered that would require someone from that area, we would either:
- Answer the question, if possible.
- If the question is unclear, politely request clarification.
- PM one or more experts with a link to the thread, then post in the thread that the unanswered posts team has referred the question to an expert.
- If we don't have any experts in that area, post a reply saying so and recommending some other place to look. In this case, we need to try to find one or more experts in that area.
- Add the thread to a queue for that particular expert group
- PM/mail someone in the expert topic area
- Ask on the IRC channel for any experts around
- Defer a post to the Beginners or Hardware teams (only with old posts; the teams will see the newer ones anyway)
How does the idea sound to everyone, and does anyone have any suggestions?
Jacob
this is a good idea as we could have the people answered much more clearly that way
this post got a lot of views
wert
That is good. Be nice, be clear and run issues up to the admins if I can't answer it successfully.
WOW, Thank you. Its really to be part of a Team that is collectively devoted to helping. Seriously Chill. Thank you Team.
Help: My name is also in hardware Team - bump? I did request membership, but did not know that i was added?
Abhi Kalyan said: Help: My name is also in hardware Team - bump? I did request membership, but did not know that i was added?
Lord Illidan manages that team over here: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=217
:)
Is there a list anywhere that shows the people to contact for this?
PM/mail someone in the expert topic area
My problem is that I don't know who to point people to when I don't have an answer.
etank said: Is there a list anywhere that shows the people to contact for this?
PM/mail someone in the expert topic area
My problem is that I don't know who to point people to when I don't have an answer.
Not quite; for now just answer the posts the best you can. In a week or two once the number of active members increases a bit, we should be able to compile a list of them. :)
I hope being an "expert" is voluntary. You wouldn't blindly PM someone to reply to a thread based on their past posts now would you? I for one reply to threads because I *want* to. Granted, the reason I want to reply is to help out, but I wouldn't want anyone breathing down my neck to help people out. :)
po0f said: I hope being an "expert" is voluntary. You wouldn't blindly PM someone to reply to a thread based on their past posts now would you? I for one reply to threads because I *want* to. Granted, the reason I want to reply is to help out, but I wouldn't want anyone breathing down my neck to help people out. :)
Definitely. Even when we do get a list, I wouldn't recommend a PM. If we can get a bunch of people to hang out in IRC or whatever, then no PMs would be needed.
I wondered if we could have a method where the unanswered post could move to this section of the forums after x amount of time unanswered? and be under a relavent section such as networking etc?
i dont know how technologicaly feasible that last comment was but if it can be applied i support that plan wholeheartedly!
wert613 said: i dont know how technologicaly feasible that last comment was but if it can be applied i support that plan wholeheartedly!
Wouldn't that like, double the number of forum sections effectively? I was hoping a better way would be to 'tweak' the advanced search options, so that for example, you could search the hardware forum, for unanswered posts, that are at least say, 2 (variable) hours old...
another good idea and you are right it would double the posts unless the plan is to move the posts over here and not just copy them
Hello fellow team members! I would like to share with you how I have been approaching these issues, in the hope that my comments spark some ideas.
What I do is that I enter one of the forums, say "Absolute Beginner", and then I click on "Unanswered Posts". Then I click on the "Last" page button, and this usually brings me to the oldest unanswered posts. Then I hunt around for something that I feel that I can answer. If I cannot find anything on that last page, then I will go backwards from there towards the newer posts on the next-to-last page, and so on.
My reasons for using this approach are (in no particular order):
- I was shocked to see how many folks have unanswered posts even after two weeks or more.
- I know what it feels like to wait for an answer to what I feel is an urgent problem.
- Someone who has already waited for two weeks or more should not have to wait one minute longer, even if it is free support.
Maybe some kind of canned response after a certain elapsed time could be implemented for this last point?
Again, this is just my personal approach, so take it for whatever you feel it is worth. I am not advocating that anyone else adopt this method. However, I would be interested to read what others are doing to tackle similar issues.
On that note, best of luck to us all in this endeavor!
Richard Kut said: ...
What I do is that I enter one of the forums, say "Absolute Beginner", and then I click on "Unanswered Posts". Then I click on the "Last" page button, and this usually brings me to the oldest unanswered posts. Then I hunt around for something that I feel that I can answer. If I cannot find anything on that last page, then I will go backwards from there towards the newer posts on the next-to-last page, and so on. ...
That will work, and you have some valid points there too. I was just hoping we could get a more 'one click' approach going! (<--very fussy!)
Actually it strikes me that if we are going to get the best out of these teams, and assuming each team will consider some kind of triage system to a greater or lesser degree, then all the teams, not just ours could benefit from some more 'targeted' searches. The problem being, I wouldn't want it, if it meant cluttering up the search interface any more for new users. They often seem panicked quite enough, without, in their moment of need, presenting a search form with a Phd requirement!
I work back from the oldest first,, Can I suggest :- if we can't point them to a wiki /documentation page then write out commands for them. I feel this is the best approach as it provides target support and most of the time allows one person greater coverage of unanswered posts.
Reference moving posts to an unanswered section, I agree technically this could be a setup issue, also as previously posted it is possible to limit unanswered posts to one section.
teaker1s said: I work back from the oldest first,,
Can I suggest :- if we can't point them to a wiki /documentation page then write out commands for them. I feel this is the best approach as it provides target support and most of the time allows one person greater coverage of unanswered posts.
I am not entirely sure I understand, since, isn't that pretty much what we do anyway? Or do you mean point them to existing documentation before rattling off more lines of commands? Well, just a thought, but given the HUGE number of documentation projects, blogs, product support sites, other forums and so on, (and I mean this really as a collaberation tool that might increase, as you say the effectiveness of individual team members) what are your thoughts on social bookmarking?
Actually perhaps this is for another thread, but it seems to me we could all benefit from each others experience a bit more in our online travels, and a social bookmarking scheme of some kind, geared specifically to our 'task', well maintained, tagged, and uncluttered, might make our role a whole lot simpler. At least then, even if we don't have a specific 'expert' in one area, we can immediately have the most recent and relevant information to hand. It would take some time, but I imagine it wouldn't be too long before it became a pretty effective tool. Any thoughts?
Possibly I put it the wrong way, what I'm suggesting is the most time/support effective way is where possible answer by pointing to documentation and or existing threads.
If we automatically subscribe to the thread, we can follow up on the odd query that sometimes occurs.
While I know some things require us to explain, for example someone asking about compiling there are two english guides regarding this in the wiki.
I support a section for beginners/unanswered questions in wiki, further I propose sections linking to wireless compiling
teaker1s said: Possibly I put it the wrong way, what I'm suggesting is the most time/support effective way is where possible answer by pointing to documentation and or existing threads.
If we automatically subscribe to the thread, we can follow up on the odd query that sometimes occurs. ... No, it's ok, that's what I thought you meant, but had a feeling there might be more to it, since that's pretty much what I do anyway! My misunderstanding.
I certainly think that if the teams are sustained, they will have a lot to offer the wiki, though I am not sure compiling needs to be in the beginners area. I mean you may not agree here, and perhaps you're right as I suspect new users will try to compile anyway, but I kind of always thought that wherever possible it's probably best to encourage new users to stick to the repo packages, and avoid compiling!! That said, I just thought of a couple bits and pieces where compiling is inevitable, so forget that last bit!!
adam.tropics said:
Actually perhaps this is for another thread, but it seems to me we could all benefit from each others experience a bit more in our online travels, and a social bookmarking scheme of some kind, geared specifically to our 'task', well maintained, tagged, and uncluttered, might make our role a whole lot simpler. At least then, even if we don't have a specific 'expert' in one area, we can immediately have the most recent and relevant information to hand. It would take some time, but I imagine it wouldn't be too long before it became a pretty effective tool. Any thoughts?
I really like that idea. It might even work with del.icio.us, however you would want a separate account if you already use it to not clutter up your old bookmarks.
As for some canned responses in the wiki, feel free to add a page for them. The current team wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnansweredPostsTeam. Many things like compiling and ndiswrapper already have decent wiki pages, however I think it would be better that instead of linking to the wiki page, just copy and paste simple, specific instructions to the post to provide the information straight-up to the user.
Speaking of the wiki, I probably should update some things a bit. :-P
adam.tropics said: I am not entirely sure I understand, since, isn't that pretty much what we do anyway? Or do you mean point them to existing documentation before rattling off more lines of commands? Well, just a thought, but given the HUGE number of documentation projects, blogs, product support sites, other forums and so on, (and I mean this really as a collaberation tool that might increase, as you say the effectiveness of individual team members) what are your thoughts on social bookmarking?
Actually perhaps this is for another thread, but it seems to me we could all benefit from each others experience a bit more in our online travels, and a social bookmarking scheme of some kind, geared specifically to our 'task', well maintained, tagged, and uncluttered, might make our role a whole lot simpler. At least then, even if we don't have a specific 'expert' in one area, we can immediately have the most recent and relevant information to hand. It would take some time, but I imagine it wouldn't be too long before it became a pretty effective tool. Any thoughts?
hmm by this do you mean we should over time create a gigantic database of info concerning everything that is and will be ubuntu?
Another good idea!
I'm thinking small section of reference material of current issues and recommended fixes. for all other details wiki or docs or forum search should provide answers.
For instance ndiswrapper users upgrading to feisty will report ndiswrapper fails. This is because ndiswrapper-utils isn't automatically upgraded to ndiswrapper-utils-1.9
wert613 said: hmm by this do you mean we should over time create a gigantic database of info concerning everything that is and will be ubuntu?
Another good idea!
Yep, absolutely! So I am not a del.icio.us expert, but I have had a look at it, and so from a couple of you guys sigs, and my answering 2 posts, you get this...Now thats literally 2 mins and one person. The tags would be the thing. What I am a little unsure of is the actual way the accounts work. I don't think (???) more than one person can actually log into the account at a time, which would be the ideal scenario. They have networks, which one could control to a point and restrict to team members, not out of a selfish desire, but obviously just to try and keep it as structured as possible. (it strikes me that uncjecked, it could get real cluttered and unhelpful just as easily). The problem with the networks, is that team members could only get at them from that page, which doesn't help so much as the firefox extension, which is excellent, and far more handy.
I could see 3 ways around that. Ether a) You put the team network onto your own accounts, and just hope your own doesn't get too cluttered for you. or b) a creative tag! So that say every item on the team list, gets tagged with say 'unansweredpoststeamubuntu' or something obscure, and you just search for 2 tags unstead of one from your account. That ideas still a little confused but I think I know what I mean!! or c) a combination of the 2.
Anyway, perhaps del.icio.us isn't the most suitable? I don't know, you guys might know a better one. Any ideas on how to prevent over complexity? Do you agree that such an idea would have to be, well, moderated is a strong word, but to benefit everyone, someone would maybe have to take responsibility of keeping things well tagged.
So, food for thought anyway....time for work...bugger!!
teaker1s said: I'm thinking small section of reference material of current issues and recommended fixes.
for all other details wiki or docs or forum search should provide answers.
For instance ndiswrapper users upgrading to feisty will report ndiswrapper fails. This is because ndiswrapper-utils isn't automatically upgraded to ndiswrapper-utils-1.9
I like that too, especially since there seems to always be 'issues of the moment' which for sometimes no apparent reason, seem to crop up.
my previous post, I believe we shouldn't re-invent the wheel, so our reference should only be current.That said important issues could be transfered to wik ias an archive?
my main concern is makiing team members aware of issues so simple fixes are not missed and team members don't embark on long reinstall proceedures.
Hi all,
I really like the idea of a social bookmark as a resource for us. That, together with a section of reference material and quick fixes for common problems to use as a resource would really help us out in answering a lot of stuff.
However, we're still going to have to find the unanswered posts and the ordinary forum search function isn't adapted for our need (and why should it be? let's face it, the ordinary forum member want to find threads with many replies, not the one with zero replies, right?). Just doing a "find unaswered posts" search doesn't seem lika a good way for me, especially if we end up specializing. In that case, someone might want to be able to find, say, unanswered posts only in the server section of the forum.
/Mojoman
as far as I'm aware, if you go to a forum section and hit unanswered posts button top right-you just get results from that forum
teaker1s said: as far as I'm aware, if you go to a forum section and hit unanswered posts button top right-you just get results from that forum
No. don't think so. At least I get the full monty, posts from all sections. This also means that the oldest unaswered post I can get in a an unanswered post search (250 posts) is about a day old. That's not a whole lot of time...
/mojoman
going to forum section and hitting tab under log out (unanswered posts) all I get is just that forum section. If I try search and unanswered posts I get all sections.
Look up the tag 'Unanswered' here if you like, they're all there. But Tweaker 1s is right in that I just got all those links from the top right of each forum. What I would really like is to know how to adjust where those links point so you could set the age of the results. For example, return just posts from a specific forum at least 2 (or whatever) hours old.
wouldn't that be under cp settings?-mine displays newest first
Ok, I was looking at the ordinary search function and hadn't seen the del.icio.us site. Excellent :)
/mojoman
teaker1s said: wouldn't that be under cp settings?-mine displays newest first
Like I said before...I am a tad too fussy! Anyway, yes in CP settings you can change the order of displayed posts (not threads though), and you can change the date cut off. That's not a good idea though because it involves only seeing threads from the last day/week/year whatever, and is global, up to a max value of a year. I don't know about your experience, but certainly from time to time, I have found very useful threads/posts from over a year ago.
To be honest, I cope fine with things the way they are. My little ideas are just ways that, for me, make things a little more time efficient. I don't have as much time as I would like.
jacobmp92 said: This was one idea mssever sent me before the team was officially set up:
The main point of his idea is the third bullet down, and it could be a key technique if done right. We would essentially have a database of team members and expert areas. When a thread is encountered that would require someone from that area, we would either:
- Add the thread to a queue for that particular expert group
- PM/mail someone in the expert topic area
- Ask on the IRC channel for any experts around
- Defer a post to the Beginners or Hardware teams (only with old posts; the teams will see the newer ones anyway)
How does the idea sound to everyone, and does anyone have any suggestions?
Jacob
fwiw, i really like the idea of having a list of topic experts that posts can be referred to after some unanswered timeout. this would be /the/ thing that would make the "unanswered posts team" something more than just a bunch of people trawling the forum for unanswered posts (which as an occasional UP trawler myself, i can say is something that's been done even before the team).
possibly, there might be a list of experts by topic organized on the team wiki page (or sub-page)?
nanotube said: fwiw, i really like the idea of having a list of topic experts that posts can be referred to after some unanswered timeout. this would be /the/ thing that would make the "unanswered posts team" something more than just a bunch of people trawling the forum for unanswered posts (which as an occasional UP trawler myself, i can say is something that's been done even before the team).
possibly, there might be a list of experts by topic organized on the team wiki page (or sub-page)?
We could have an organized list on the wiki, but do remember that if someone manages to find that list and knows what they are doing, they could bug you for help. If we keep the wiki page a secret from everyone else, it should not be a problem.
Another option would be to have an offsite wiki/list for this purpose, and stick an easy password on it.
I'm going to split off into another topic for a poll on this.
jacobmp92 said: We could have an organized list on the wiki, but do remember that if someone manages to find that list and knows what they are doing, they could bug you for help. If we keep the wiki page a secret from everyone else, it should not be a problem.
if someone spends enough time to dig up the list of experts for beginner team, find the right subcategory, and pick an expert, then i have no problem exerting some effort in trying to answer their question (that is, if i would even qualify for being an expert in anything) :)
posting a big disclaimer at the top of the list, saying that it is for team use only, and that users should just post to the forums, would also keep out all but the most desperate user. otherwise, i am in favor of keeping an "open" list (open source after all :) ).
Another option would be to have an offsite wiki/list for this purpose, and stick an easy password on it.
I'm going to split off into another topic for a poll on this. link? :)
What can I get by joining the team? You can get a good feeling knowing that you are helping people out with their support problems. Plus, you also get listed on the Forum Leaders page.
A good idea might be to correct the FAQ. ;) Not that anyone would join just to be on that page.
Kateikyoushi said: A good idea might be to correct the FAQ. ;) Not that anyone would join just to be on that page.
Maybe leave that bit out, but it is in fact correct in the sense that the Forum Leaders link on the forum front page is a link to a full groups listing.
Fixed the FAQ. :)