Archived thread 381748 from Beginner Team. Markdown source: Beginner_Team/thread_381748_Beginner_Script_bank_idea.md
How about we create loads of different scripts, so a script that runs and executes loads of commands.
Ideas..
Setup nvidia drivers and xorg.conf file Setup ati drivers and xorg.conf file Setup ubuntu with media playback codecs for songs/videos/dvd's Install and setup beryl
..
Just a few very basic ideas
easyubuntu and automatix are two attempts at this. envy concentrates on video drivers.
None of them are really necessary imo, add/remove programs should be the way to install things. My two cents.
Oh ok, thanks for the info
I feel it better you educate the users on the best ways to accomplish these than doing it for them.
We may give an into to bash scripts, but I do not foresee the beginners team as writing or maintaining bash scripts for new users. Such scripts already exist, but caution should be used with these scripts :)
The advantage of envy is that it updates the Nvidia drivers with kernel updates + it updates the nvidia drivers, if available, with updates.
Yea, not necessary, but is convenient :)
The problem with the open source drivers are they are not compatible with all Nvidia cards, like mine for example ...
The best thing for newbies is to learn how to do things themselves. If we offer scripts to newbies they will get used to the idea and wont learn anything, they will remain 'newbies' and wont be able to fix/use their system without help.
While I agree that for the time being, scripts aren't beneficial. But lets face it, the main reason many people are scared of Linux is because you don't have a powerful GUI.
What I think a lot of Linux enthusiasts fail to understand is that there is a whole bunch of new users coming on-line who just want to use Linux as a tool to get their work done, just like they did in Windows.
They have neither the time, nor the inclination to learn how to do things using the command line.
Taking the high ground and putting them off by telling them that they need to learn how to do things themselves will only send them back into their Windows comfort zone.
I think things like scripts, AutoMatix and Easy Ubuntu are great for these people.
Let's get into the spirit of the open source community and give people the option to choose, not dictate to them.
Regards, Roger :cool:
I agree that it would be best to teach newbies to do things for themselves, but give them the option to use automatics and easyubuntu. Some people have more time to learn than others and some just like to point and click. I think most people would agree that some people are better off pointing and clicking. The world we live in is as diverse as the options we have to install programs. I have even heard a newbie talking about and explaining how he was going to compile his own kernal. I myself wouldn't even attempt to do this knowingly.
ramjet_1953 said: What I think a lot of Linux enthusiasts fail to understand is that there is a whole bunch of new users coming on-line who just want to use Linux as a tool to get their work done, just like they did in Windows.
Is there a specific example of a problem ?
Ubuntu will do work processing, e-mail, and web browsing out of the box, as, no configuration necessary.
No command line necessary ....
Other then that, Ubuntu is not a windows clone.
ramjet_1953 said: They have neither the time, nor the inclination to learn how to do things using the command line.
No one is forcing anyone to use the command line. The command line is intimidating to new users and I would like to see the beginners team help with that ...
ramjet_1953 said: Taking the high ground and putting them off by telling them that they need to learn how to do things themselves will only send them back into their Windows comfort zone.
I think things like scripts, AutoMatix and Easy Ubuntu are great for these people.
Let's get into the spirit of the open source community and give people the option to choose, not dictate to them.
Regards, Roger :cool:
If you like scripts, such as AutoMatix and Easy Ubuntu you are free to use them. Automatix, while popular, is not officially supported by Ubuntu. I am not sure of Easy Ubuntu.
Again, AutoMatix and Easy Ubuntu have their own support and I do not foresee the Beginners Team supporting these or any other specific script.
I would be willing to help new users learn to script for themselves ...
I don't even like the automatic installation options such as Automatix. I would prefer to install things myself when I want and where I want.
What ramjet said though is completely correct. New users are used to a full 100% operating GUI (Windows). This isn't the case in Linux. New users are very quickly turned away from Linux when they see the CLI and how much they need to use it.
Instructions on how to use the CLI and how to install drivers (being updated frequently as new drivers are released) is KEY to keeping people here. Making sure people can use the same program or equivalents to Windows is also important. I know it sounds lame, but we have to try to copycat Windows to get Windows users to stay here. But, we can also *not* be Windows at the same time. We can offer them better solutions to things. We can offer people better programs, and teach them why Linux is better. :)
Ek0nomik said:
What ramjet said though is completely correct. New users are used to a full 100% operating GUI (Windows). This isn't the case in Linux. New users are very quickly turned away from Linux when they see the CLI and how much they need to use it.
I'd disagree with the fact that you HAVE to use the CLI. Synaptic allows you to just install the packages from the GUI, ADD/REMOVE goes a long way to installing things. For basic functionality, there is very little you need to get the CLI out to do - presuming that the majority of users graphics cards work with no reconfiguring, its only when you start needing 3d support you might need to venture into CLI to put beryl on for instance and update the xorg.conf but for most day-to-day use, if you want to you can avoid CLI - its just that the CLI is faster, and more efficient than using GUI that it is more commonly used. Il
I'm not saying that I don't like the CLI Illuvator (not that you were implying that I was, but I'm just telling...), it's just that I think the CLI is the biggest turnoff for new users. It's easier to point and click than to think of new commands you just learned and type. I have been using the CLI more and more, but not everyone likes it.
The key to getting new users is making things easy, and the CLI isn't the best example of that. While you may think the CLI is faster and easier, many people would disagree. What's faster and more efficient isn't always what people want. Look at the Dvorak Keyboard :)
Have script bank. Have CLI bank. Let users choose.
New users like me shall pick the script, verify by looking at CLI info, modify if needed, and use. And learn in the process.
Examples are necessary, give scripts. Those who want to learn shall learn. Just make people run Ubuntu first.
Please start the hardware related solutions. I can not read MMC card, recorder does not show any input device, audio volume is low. Users can tolerate the harassment of installation when and if they go wrong, but tolerance takes a toss (so does the OS) when things do not run after installation.
So please give scripts and HW solutions. :popcorn:
When I posted my innitial comment I wasn't referring to just installing the common "Office" type of software and running it.
What I was alluding to is that many new users don't even get that far.
They have problems with screen resolution, aspect ratio, wireless networking, Permissions for writing to DVD and CD devices, webcams, CODEC's, the list goes on and on.
This is the area where scripts, Automatx, etc need to come into play.
I agree, that once a Linux system is successfully installed and the applications are installed, almost anyone with only a small amount of knowledge of computer operation shouldn't have any difficulty.
However getting fron the LiveCD to the above is often a huge chasm.
If we, as a community can help to bridge that chasm and make an install as easy as possible, that's when Linux will become a genuine contender for the average computer user.
Regards, Roger 8)
Hi!
Great idea - makes me feel welcome as a semi-noob. Although I have been working in IT for many years, I am still regularly humbled by Linux. Note that I am motivated to "stick it to the man" by supporting Linux, but I do have a life that does not revolve around supporting my wife's and my computer desktops.
First, let me say that my experiences (frustrations as well as victories) with Edgy are not substantially different than when I installed my last distro 3 years ago. I ended up using that installation less and less over time for compatibility reasons. After a HD crash forced me to do a clean XP install first, now I'm eager to do better with Ubuntu. However, while some tools and available software have made definite advances, the overall user experience has not changed much since 2004.
What is needed to keep hopeful users on board the Linux express is more fun and function up front before hitting the learning curve wall. Regardless if whether they are scripts, automated tools, or a "best practices" guide, a new user like me would like the following minimum functionality before hitting any serious hurdles:
If I could have all the above, I would only boot XP to play games and use a couple of Access applications I wrote (before rewriting them, I hope). I'm still holding out hope that I can make it work this time.
Thanks for listening and helping!
As you can see Automatix has expanded to include many different items in their scripts. I have installed several different types of software some are now included in Automatix. But you can also remove them through the same GUI. [ATTACH]27950[/ATTACH]
The good thing about automatix and easy ubuntu is the ease. The bad is occasional upgrade issues, and you do not learn from them. For example, I used Easy Ubuntu to get my first system running. Then I went into synaptic to see what it installed. Then I wrote a script to use apt-get to do the same. Slowly I added to it. Now I have a fast script to run on new systems. It gives me codecs, and many tools I want in one pass, as well as adding the 2 key extra repositories for me. This script makes things easy, and is a teaching tool. I would say that several scripts to do these things in smaller chunks would be a wonderful thing to both assist, and to teach. It also means that with upgrades, users can upgrade there own scripts. Enclosed is my script. Note that some things have to be done before running it! Read all scripts before you run them! :)
#!/bin/sh
# Ubuntu Update Script (Edgy)
#
# This is a script to update a default install to
# a fully functional system. Most things are automated,
# but a few things still need to be done by hand.
#
# Enable the Universe, Multiverse, and Restricted
# repsoitories. Uncheck the CD repository.
#
# DHCP Client
# /etc/dchp3/dhclient.conf
# Unhash 'send host-name' and put in system hostname.
#
# NTP Config
# Set the clock to update automatically from
# us.pool.ntp.org
#
# Note: Sudo must be enabled for this to work.
# (Type 'sudo ls' and the passowrd before running
# this script)
#
# Add extra repositories
# Medibuntu
wget -q http://medibuntu.sos-sts.com/repo/medibuntu-key.gpg -O- | sudo apt-key add -
sudo wget http://medibuntu.sos-sts.com/sources.list.d/edgy.list -O /etc/apt/sources.list.d/medibuntu.list
# Wine HQ
wget -q http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/apt/387EE263.gpg -O- | sudo apt-key add -
sudo wget http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/apt/sources.list.d/edgy.list -O /etc/apt/sources.list.d/winehq.list
# Refresh repositories
sudo apt-get update
# Install everything
sudo apt-get install ssh traceroute p7zip unace rar xfonts-intl-european flashplugin-nonfree sun-java5-plugin faad ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-pitfdll gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse lame liba52-0.7.4 libartsc0 libdc1394-13 libdvdread3 libfaac0 libfaad2-0 libgsm1 libid3tag0 libimlib2 liblame0 libmad0 libmjpegtools0c2a libmms0 libmodplug0c2 libmp4v2-0 libmpcdec3 libmpeg2-4 liboggflac3 libquicktime0 libsidplay1 libswfdec0.3 libungif4g libwavpack0 libxine-extracodecs libxine-main1 libxvidcore4 libxvmc1 mjpegtools ntp ntp-simple sox vorbis-tools libdvdcss2 w32codecs msttcorefonts ogle-mmx ogle-gui streamtuner streamripper