I apologize for sending that first email and sparking the discussion in the mailing list. It should have been started here on the forum.
Citing dismal attendance and overall noninterest, some team members are motioning to end monthly IRC meetings.
I am in opposition to this because physical meetings have a small radius, and I strongly believe we need to reach out to all of Maryland, which we can do through IRC. Meeting attendance is dropping, and we need to strengthen our community!
I'm worried about how little this team accomplishes as a whole. People from all over Maryland can help with events, the wiki, and the soon-to-be-live website. We need to bring these people out and gain some support!
IRC meetings do not need to take long. If we begin promptly we will usually only need 30 mins to an hour of talk time. Is 7PM on the first Wednesday of every month inconvenient for people? If so, suggest another time during the first week of the month.
I hope some people that don't/can't attend the physical meetings will speak up and we can bring regular IRC meetings back into the team.
Let's talk about it.
Craig Younkins
I agree. We shouldn't end the meetings as a result of a lack of participation, we need to increase participation. Like Craig has pointed out, we shouldn't forget that this team is statewide. It is not a Columbia or Baltimore team. In order to function as a statewide team, we have to make the team available to all Marylanders. In fact, I'd be more willing to get rid of PHYSICAL meetings before I'd get rid of the IRC meetings. There's no reason we can't do both, however, so long as the physical meetings are transcribed so that everyone can follow what's being discussed.
Before we try to increase participation, we should first set out some goals. As I've mentioned before, I have little interest in install fests and I think they're a poor use of our resources, so for my part, I propose that our team should spend more time on creating a buzz around Ubuntu. After all, we're not just doing this so we can get together to hack away at some troublesome machines, we're doing this because we believe in Ubuntu and we believe in FOSS. Therefore, I believe that we need to have more public-oriented events that are open to a wider audience. It's all about the buzz. Not to mention I think install fests unfairly characterize Ubuntu as difficult to install. In case you haven't noticed, install fests are preaching to choir: only the most troublesome of machines end up at these things.
Also, I think the install fests and our obsessive focus on them are potentially what's causing the problem with participation. At some of the meetings I attended, I noticed people would much rather talk about Ubuntu and FOSS than sit around troubleshooting. That's understandable, and I think we should encourage group discussion and meetings around Ubuntu. I truly think we should FIRST be an Ubuntu enthusiasts group and SECOND a technical support group. We can develop our membership and our goals much better if we give people a REASON to attend the meetings.
I think the meeting in Frederick is potentially a great step in the right direction. I for one vote that we move away from this tech support paradigm and try our hand as an enthusiasts group. I think people would be much more likely to participate if they got something out of it, even if that is as simple as an hour of social interaction with like-minded people. Trying to crack the whip at our members about helping out at install fests is a poor way to build group morale and enthusiasm. Ubuntu draws people together, so let's focus on people, not on technology, and I think everything else will naturally fall into place.
Anyway, that's my piece. :)
-- Josh
> I am in opposition to this because physical meetings have a small radius,
and I strongly believe we need to reach out to all of Maryland, which we can do through IRC. Meeting attendance is dropping, and we need to *strengthen our community!*
+1 from a new member in Brunswick. Columbia is a bit over an hour from me, and I find it much more convenient to attend the IRC meetings. One thing I wonder: Would the IRC meetings be more effective if they were shortened, held more often, and had a fixed agenda?
> I think the meeting in Frederick is potentially a great step in the right
direction. I for one vote that we move away from this tech support paradigm and try our hand as an enthusiasts group. I think people would be much more likely to participate if they got something out of it, even if that is as simple as an hour of social interaction with like-minded people. Trying to crack the whip at our members about helping out at install fests is a poor way to build group morale and enthusiasm. Ubuntu draws people together, so let's focus on people, not on technology, and I think everything else will naturally fall into place.
I don't think we should get rid of installfests, but I definitely agree there's alot of other outreach that could be done. One thing I'd like to try is setting up an Ubuntu table to hand out free CDs at Brunswick's First Friday event. The next one might be a bit close (March 7th), but if I could get the team's help I think it might be a good outreach opportunity.
And I'll definitely be there this Wednsday at the Frederick meeting.
- Rich
So here's what I'm hearing in this thread.
The IRC chats should continue. That's great, but if no one attends, do they happen? I can say from my point is that I tend to forget to log in for them, or do not have time to. It's not a matter that it's not on my calendar, it's a factor of simply 7pm coming and going without a thought about the chat. The few that I have actually gotten in on it has been the same people for the most part that attend the physical meetings.
Another thing I see is wanting to do more enthusiast type activities. What do you picture being done at these? Is it simply an Ubuntu Users gathering such as we did for the Gutsy release or do you want to work a presentation into this? From discussions we've had on the upcoming install fest and this thread I do have a first thought on a topic. Either we do the 'Why Ubuntu?' presentation or a 'New Life For Your Old PC!' type of presentation. This leads to a when and where discussion.
Then the question about the First Friday thing. What would a table involve? Is this an event that people would want to stop and ask about a computer operating system? March 7th is a little quick for this suggestion in particular due to the fact that we have the Install Fest the next day.
As for the the install fests, this is something that members seem to want to do. I don't feel that we are cracking a whip in this direction, but it is something that we get people wanting to help with.
At least on my part, Non-participation does not imply a lack of interest. It is a direct result of some nasty work backlogs at my work that leave me unable and unwilling to sit in front of a screen after a few hours over of overtime over a 6-week period.
Let alone drive to Howard County from Frederick/Carroll county.
Also, at work IRC outgoing is firewalled (and I haven't set up SSH to my home machine.)
Nay on the motion to discontinue IRC meetings. I will attempt to be there more often now that things have subsided somewhat.
--BK
> The IRC chats should continue. That's great, but if no one attends, do they
happen? I can say from my point is that I tend to forget to log in for them, or do not have time to. It's not a matter that it's not on my calendar, it's a factor of simply 7pm coming and going without a thought about the chat.
Do you think it would help to shorten the IRC meetings and make them happen more often? It looks like NY's LoCo team has an IRC meeting once every two weeks. Having the meeting more frequently might encourage more participation/reinforce the habit :-).
Another thing I see is wanting to do more enthusiast type activities. What do you picture being done at these? Is it simply an Ubuntu Users gathering such as we did for the Gutsy release or do you want to work a presentation into this? From discussions we've had on the upcoming install fest and this thread I do have a first thought on a topic. Either we do the 'Why Ubuntu?' presentation or a 'New Life For Your Old PC!' type of presentation. This leads to a when and where discussion.
Both I'd say, but definitely more advocacy. Presentations to college ACM groups, computer fairs, etc.
Then the question about the First Friday thing.
Yeah, I think I spoke too soon on this one. I made some phone calls this morning, participation is closed to all but businesses on Main St. So never-mind :-)
- Rich
> The IRC chats should continue. That's great, but if no one attends, do
they happen? I can say from my point is that I tend to forget to log in for them, or do not have time to. It's not a matter that it's not on my calendar, it's a factor of simply 7pm coming and going without a thought about the chat. The few that I have actually gotten in on it has been the same people for the most part that attend the physical meetings.
I don't think it's reasonable to cancel the IRC meetings because you forget them. Maybe we can send out e-mail reminders or send SMS messages prior to the meeting or something. Or even a phone tree.
I've been unable to make the physical meetings. I don't get home from work until around 6pm most nights, and then I'd have to leave immediately to make it to Columbia by 7pm. That means I wouldn't get a chance to eat, shower, or do anything until I get home around 10pm. For me, that's a tight schedule, especially considering that I work full-time and I'm a student. My point is that without the IRC meetings, I would have no way of meeting with the team. Getting rid of the IRC meetings would be a quaint way of telling me that I'm not worth the effort... as well anyone else who happens to live too far away to commute to physical meetings. I did some search of other LoCos to find out how they manage these, and most have IRC meetings far more regularly than physical meetings.
Another thing I see is wanting to do more enthusiast type activities. What
do you picture being done at these? Is it simply an Ubuntu Users gathering such as we did for the Gutsy release or do you want to work a presentation into this? From discussions we've had on the upcoming install fest and this thread I do have a first thought on a topic. Either we do the 'Why Ubuntu?' presentation or a 'New Life For Your Old PC!' type of presentation. This leads to a when and where discussion.
Sure, we could do a number of things. As I mentioned above, I've been doing some research on other LoCos and there are a variety of things we could do. Some are physical, others are internet-based. We can discuss these in upcoming meetings or in the forums. I've been planning to start a thread about this for a while now but I wanted to gather my thoughts first.
As for the the install fests, this is something that members seem to want to
do. I don't feel that we are cracking a whip in this direction, but it is something that we get people wanting to help with.
I don't want to sound like an install fest hater, but I think it's critical that we first acknowledge our target audience. Who are we trying to reach? How are we most likely to reach them? If you think about this for a few seconds, you'll realize that install fests are not the way to reach our target audience. The people we're trying to reach don't even know what an install fest is, and those who DO know what they are probably don't need to attend one unless they have a particularly troublesome computer. So what we're left with is an event (mostly planned, managed, and executed by Craig and John) that takes up all of our time. Besides, Ubuntu is easy to install, right? Why are we spending so much time INSTALLING it? Let's spread Ubuntu. Let's talk about it. Let's show it to people. Let's popularize it. Let's work on it and make it better. Have you seen the new LoCo initiative? I don't have a link at the moment, but Jono is pushing for LoCos to start doing bug-squashing and documentation.
Frankly, I think we'd get more exposure by walking around the mall while wearing Ubuntu T-shirts than doing 20 install fests. So, yes, the team may enjoy doing install fests, but that doesn't mean that they should monopolize our time and effort. Poor Craig is ripping out his hair trying to pull these things together. If everyone is so interested in them, why aren't more people stepping up to help out?
-- Josh
I also think that a heads-up reminder email, the day of the IRC meeting is a good idea. I plumb forgot about the last one.
As I said before, I'm in (schedule permitting) for the presentations. I agree with Josh that install-fests largely miss the point, although I realize that among our group there are guys who are drawn to that. Fair enough. Install fests don't bother me until they begin to take up all the attention of the group, and then I find myself losing interest.
Line up presentation venues, and point me in the right direction. That sort of thing generates interested bodies, and interested bodies keep LoCos going. We've already worked out, for the most part, the presentation itself. More polish will come with more iterations. (And, Vista drums up interest for our cause, or something like what we offer.)
-J.