Please, change the theme at least for Ibex

Hey, guys... I hope this time new theme will be prepared.

Don't think I want to blame someone. And no... I am not saying this to start a new war here.

I am a web designer and as in the web design there is something called "look" or "fashion". We all know what a Web 2.0 style means.

So like it or not, we (the designers I mean) have to move forward and to satisfy our clients with a modern look.

And I think it is the same with an OS theme. Yeah, the current (Hardy) theme is polished. But it just reminds me of the Win 95 style. Like it or not, now the fashion is different. Now people like semitransparent bars, shiny and simple look, etc.

Please, do something about it. Don't think I want it for myself. I can change the default theme into something really nice in 10 minutes. The goal is... The new linux users. Because when those new users see Ubuntu (no matter how stable, free and polished it is), they just say... "It looks so old and ugly"

If you want to be popular, just make something that looks... Shiny and modern.

A new theme is planned for Ibex which will be the base theme for the next LTS release.

I like brown, I like the current theme. But I hope to god that brown overdose theme doesn't make it as default. Its too much brown. I hope its less grey but not black as that doesn't work well with allot of websites. Hopefully the future (beyond intreped) we will see standard clutter widgets being used across a multitude of gnome apps.

Mike said: A new theme is planned for Ibex which will be the base theme for the next LTS release.

Well, a new one was planned for Hardy too. But as we all know, plans are not what we want them to be ;)

I'm really hoping for something that looks like a brown-yellow-red tiffany lamp with a lot of black/dark brown and that old-style wavy glass and natural matte textures instead of that more modern smooth glass with quartzy textures.

instead of that more modern smooth glass with quartzy textures.

I definitely agree. We don't want Intrepid to look anything like Vista. The Hardy default theme [and Gutsy's for that matter] is just fine. But that's the thing. It's *just* fine. It needs to be something better than what it is now, but definitely nothing even distantly like Vista - or OS X godforbid.

As there are other considerations like flashing your gorgeous new Ubuntu install to all your friends who sing out the Windows war cry, you know the sort whom you so want to convert to Ubuntu. This new theme has to work out of the box or at least does not require hacking skills.

I really REALLY hope we will get a new default theme. However, I am afraid that history will repeat it self and the current theme will keep flowing in the river of time for years to come.....

It seems that "theme" is one of most slow things in the ubuntu realm, in terms of evolving and innovating. It is ironic if you think about it. One of the most common arguments in favor of linux is that it is a modern system, compared to the "old seven year old system from MS".

However, we never got past the point of Windows versions of the past (95 - 2000 and maybe xp era) in terms of looks. All that innovation under the hood never really touched the average joe that makes up his mind in the first few glimpses. Other distros have got that message and are already making efforts towards that goal, even smaller ones in an effort to overcome their lack of features perhaps when compared to the uber-friendliness of ubuntu. However, I believe that as a whole we are still lagging behind.

A wise Chinese man back in the 16th century said: "Pretty is a feature".

Lets make the leap this time, a leap that will bring our favorite distro in sync with 2010 and hopefully beyond that........

The goal is... The new linux users. Because when those new users see Ubuntu (no matter how stable, free and polished it is), they just say... "It looks so old and ugly"

You're quick to speak on behalf of noobs. During my first live session in Ubuntu (I tried Edgy live, didn't bother with Ubuntu until after Feisty's release...plus this was my first exposure to Linux on my own machine), the only thing that frustrated me was that the WLAN didn't work out of the box, and there was no one I could call to help me (except a buddy of mine who couldn't help me because he didn't have Internet at the time). The non-native screen resolution also seemed fowl, but I figured I could eventually figure it out provided I could access the Internet.

I knew nothing about Linux at the time, however I knew that any supported operating system would allow me to change the theme/background/etc.

Any n00b could figure out how to change the theme to match their prefs. If they only know the lunar theme for Win XP and that meadows background image (and maybe even use a non-native resolution), they're not likely to think about customizing the desktop and would content themselves with the stock applications for quite a while.

I'm relatively indifferent about the default theme color, because I doubt Canonical would ever ship Ubuntu with my desktop prefs (or even change the theme color to any color outside of brown/orange). Polishing the GUI is always a plus, and acts as an incentive for other theme developers (such as those who work on ClearLooks, etc.) to polish their work.

If you want to add transparency and other neat things, you can always create your own Ubuntu live CD and set it up with your prefs. You could even boot Ubuntu off a pendrive and have it save your settings and impress your friends with a live session of Linux on their machines right off a pendrive.:o

victorche said: Well, a new one was planned for Hardy too. But as we all know, plans are not what we want them to be ;)

The Art team decided that a new look should change at the beginning of a LTS and not the end.

Someone should totally write a new gtk engine using pixel shaders to draw realistic furry windows. That'd differentiate us from OS X and Vista :).

I'm really hoping for something that looks like a brown-yellow-red tiffany lamp It's at this point that I'm glad I'm on KDE:lolflag:

Cary

RAOF said: Someone should totally write a new gtk engine using pixel shaders to draw realistic furry windows. That'd differentiate us from OS X and Vista :).

That would seriously be awesome! Just imagine a horde of furry windows scurrying around as you tabswitch \o/

• Arand

I would like to see dark red to be introduced into the mix of colors. Just my personal preference :)

Delever said: I would like to see dark red to be introduced into the mix of colors. Just my personal preference :)

Maybe if we ever see a release named after some animal recognizably associated with Scotland, we'll see a new theme in various modes of plaid.:)

aren't badgers recogniseably associated with Scotland ?

ronacc said: aren't badgers recogniseably associated with Scotland ?

Guess we've already missed our chance for plaid themes then.:sad:

Seriously though, Id love it if the new theme was gilouche. Its so nice looking. Simple and bright :D plus the panel and windows don't look drab and grey, or too white. Its just a nice pastel which is just as bright and appealing :D :P

I really like the new Human-Murrine (and Human-Clearlooks). I think it's a good start point for a new Ubuntu look.

Yes, I like the Human-Murrine theme too - very nice :)

Outdoors does it for me. Cool and relaxed - and not brown!

RAOF said: Someone should totally write a new gtk engine using pixel shaders to draw realistic furry windows. That'd differentiate us from OS X and Vista :).

Yeah, maybe each window can be some indeterminate species of fuzzy critter which you poke in the eye to pop in a gush of blood, or tug on the tail to get it to hide on the window list.

I just had a neat idea.

If any of you have used the "Sweet Dream" theme for iGoogle.. That could be a really neat touch to an Operating System's theme.

Basically the theme changes colors/background pictures during different parts of the day to let the user know what time of the day it is. (Stars at night, with a picture of the dark night sky, gets lighter with the sun coming up at sunrise, all based on your clock.)

I noticed that I for one like to have darker themes really early in the morning and late at night as to not hurt my eyes when I'm in the dark or just wake up. BUT I also like to have a lighter theme when I'm awake and working so I don't get as lazy eyes and tired from the themes darkness/feel.

What if we could make a theme that changed colors during different times of the day and night to be lighter during the day and darker during the night but keep an Ubuntu feel to it by the color choice. That would be awesome!

The wallpapers by default could change with the theme to fit the colors and time of day. :P

Though this could all be optional, it would be a fun and interesting default for new and regular users.

[FONT="Verdana"]Have a look on the following link here below.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Clear_Intrepid

It should give you some idea what to expect from intrepid when it will be relesed .[/FONT]

viikinki said: [FONT="Verdana"]Have a look on the following link here below.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Clear_Intrepid

It should give you some idea what to expect from intrepid when it will be relesed .[/FONT]

That's at least one idea -- they haven't finalized any artwork as of yet. Actually, this link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/ has all of the currently submitted suggestions for artwork, although many are in early stages. I do like Clear Intrepid's look.

JACooks said: That's at least one idea -- they haven't finalized any artwork as of yet. Actually, this link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/ has all of the currently submitted suggestions for artwork, although many are in early stages. I do like Clear Intrepid's look.

Heh. If they go for the Clear Intrepid theme, im going to need a bag to puke in everytime I start the live cd or see a fresh installation.. No offense to any themers, They do a good job and the more different themes we get to chose from the better, but do Not make that the default theme

The buttons looks very amateur-ish, as if one of my former classmates had made them, vista looking icons, The taskbars looks absolutely horrible with too many basic glow effects.

Xealot said: Heh. If they go for the Clear Intrepid theme, im going to need a bag to puke in everytime I start the live cd or see a fresh installation.. No offense to any themers, They do a good job and the more different themes we get to chose from the better, but do Not make that the default theme

The buttons looks very amateur-ish, as if one of my former classmates had made them, vista looking icons, The taskbars looks absolutely horrible with too many basic glow effects.

I agree, they have more work to do -- nor would I advocate making Clear Inrepid the default at this stage. But I do think it's important, as you've mentioned, to call attention to the many themes we can choose from, and give everyone an opportunity to provide input on the elements that work (or don't work) for each of us. It's certainly a contentious topic, and one we likely will never get full consensus around (which is why we can change our own themes).

RAOF said: Someone should totally write a new gtk engine using pixel shaders to draw realistic furry windows. That'd differentiate us from OS X and Vista :).

Following the same theory that fuzzy dice make your car look leet?

viikinki said: [FONT="Verdana"]Have a look on the following link here below.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Clear_Intrepid

It should give you some idea what to expect from intrepid when it will be relesed .[/FONT]

It would be interesting to see what changes to the underlying system would be needed to accomplice something like that. I would love to see an ambitious goal be picked that would require the 4 releases we have roughly till the next LTS to make work fully. Do things iteratively upstream to enable a sexy unified look for the Linux.

Remembering that the 2 years that gives us should be ample time to ensure well working 3D drivers for most videocards out as Free Software so we can depend on it being present in the long run on all platforms.

Look ahead.

I personally loved the theme proposed for Hardy, but I don't think they actually made it into a theme. If they can't bring that theme in for Intrepid, I would love for Sauna-Dark to be the default. It's a beautiful lush dark brown theme that doesn't look anything like Vista or OS X, thank god.

The only thing I don't like about the current themes is the icon set. It's not the icons themselves, they look great in fact, but I miss the common thing that makes them a "set".

gnomeuser said:

Remembering that the 2 years that gives us should be ample time to ensure well working 3D drivers for most videocards out as Free Software so we can depend on it being present in the long run on all platforms.

Look ahead.

Well, sounds scary...maybe nVidia abandon the Linux driver. :confused:

Maybe better to give nVidia time and with no pressure open up their driver.

The latest and coming generation of GPUs must be impossible to copy for hardware thieves.

I also downloaded Fedora 9 but saw the mess with the nVidia driver and Xorg ABI and it just went to a Virtualbox install.

Mostly all users can live with the fact that nVidias driver is unfree... 100% sure... a few cannot.

So give nVidia time, ATI/AMD is badly hurt and their open source approach seems more like a theatre, for Intel its just business and hardware with missing functions.

plun said: Well, sounds scary...maybe nVidia abandon the Linux driver. :confused:

Maybe better to give nVidia time and with no pressure open up their driver.

The latest and coming generation of GPUs must be impossible to copy for hardware thieves.

I also downloaded Fedora 9 but saw the mess with the nVidia driver and Xorg ABI and it just went to a Virtualbox install.

Mostly all users can live with the fact that nVidias driver is unfree... 100% sure... a few cannot.

So give nVidia time, ATI/AMD is badly hurt and their open source approach seems more like a theatre, for Intel its just business and hardware with missing functions.

ATI/AMD' efforts are not just theatre, they give us specs and they hired people to work directly on the Free Software driver, you are simply mistaken. They even stated that they want to move away from the proprietary driver long term and looking at the progress they already made and the contributions they'd made to X they are well on their way to being there. 2 years is plenty of time for this to happen. The same goes for Nouveau, plenty of good progress and 2 years from now we should be able to depend on it for deployment, then I do hope nvidia do what they did in the case of the Forcedeth driver and drop their own proprietary offering to work on the cleanly implmemented Free Software driver.

As for living with a proprietary driver as a user.. sure but users don't understand the implications. The nvidia driver is notorious for stack abuse just go to the kerneloops site and try noticing how many of the top traces reported from from tainted kernels. The nvidia driver poses a risk to the system stability that we cannot solve, a security risk (want to run a few megs worth of unknown unaudited code as root and plug it into your kernel.. be my guest) and naturally it's a limiting factor in portability a stated goal for the next cycle of Ubuntu if I am not mistaken. You're already limited from using your precious proprietary driver on non-x86 platforms, and to the cards it elects to support (there's a legacy driver but nvidia do everything they can to push people on the actively maintained driver which they regularly drop support for older cards in).

Additionally, your little stab at Fedora for shipping the lastest X server, one has to ask one self the logic used to arrive where you did. Nvidia elects to not release specs or source code, why is it ou job to support them, their way of doing drivers clearly depends on them doing their job. They even partake in the ABI breakage knowing it will be in F9, they should have a driver ready for their users. F9 ships with both nouveau and nv so it's not like you are deprived of X, just 3D and only till such a time as nvidia does their damn job or we replace the driver with a superior offering.

I'm sorry, it's just not a viable long term situation and if we are going to change the theme for Ubuntu, the sensible thing is to look at a long term goal we have 2 years to do this. Setting out a goal and iteratively with each release adding the code upstream that is required to get to that goal is the right thing to do. I would weep if the new look was merely putting a new theme on GTK as we know it, we have the change to invest in bringing us forward.

Well, until then MS got Windows 7 out and everyone has left GNU

This is just "harakiri" on a distribution

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=107725

Ubuntu did the same but smaller "harakiri".

The situation with nVidia cannot stop Artwork, Compiz-Fusion etc.

A mainstream user is NOT interested in Metacity (or Epiphany).

I also wants everything to be FREE but I cannot understand why a small group is so stupid (IMHO).:confused:

This year is a "golden opportunity" but we are blowing it away beacuse of a small goup of fundamentalists... Really Sad.

You are from Denmark and a Swedish journalist wrote this about Ubuntu and about a "crazy nerd" behind it....:(

http://www.gp.se/gp/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=400&a=417132

She ended in a complete mess probably the network manager, PolicyKit and a GUI which really is a labyrinth.

So build Art-Work and functionality for a newbie and a main stream perspective including a few proprietary issues (not from MS)

oh well , it looks like those of us with Nvidia graphics cards may be in for a bumpy ride this time around :( A "pissing match" like this will do neither Ubuntu or Nvidia any good . Sticking a finger in the eye of a major hardware supplier and the large number of users who have that hardware will not be good for Ubuntu and ignoreing a growing segment of the market will not help Nvidia maintain their market share . As a side note atleast sofar Suse has stayed with Xorg 7.3 for 11.0

Doesn't sound good :( And here's me thinking of building a new PC with Nvidia graphics on the mobo. Could always add a separate graphics card of course.

ronacc said: oh well , it looks like those of us with Nvidia graphics cards may be in for a bumpy ride this time around :( A "pissing match" like this will do neither Ubuntu or Nvidia any good . Sticking a finger in the eye of a major hardware supplier and the large number of users who have that hardware will not be good for Ubuntu and ignoreing a growing segment of the market will not help Nvidia maintain their market share . As a side note atleast sofar Suse has stayed with Xorg 7.3 for 11.0

Plun takes my comment out of context then forms it to further his agenda. I never said remove the nvidia driver now, I said replace it - there is a huge difference. In 2 years we can have a Free Software replacement, which can be slowly phased in on supported hardware. I think we can all agree that this would be desirable for many reasons including the ability to fix bugs (I again point out that while the average user might experience the nvidia module as stable it causes a lot of problems which to the untrained eye looks unrelated), security and stability.

The point was more, in 2 years, 4 cycles we can have a setup that has a top notch X stack, well supported acceleration and some very cool stuff. We should set a lofty goal and implement the required bits across the stack. Add to GTK what is needed, to X what is needed and so on. But the goal should be not a new theme for Ibex, but a new interaction model for the nexty LTS release. A new look and fell that utilizes all we can do, and the work should be done upstream with well defined standards where required.

There are plenty of places where we can integrate things like IM/VoIP, do cool little animations. Take Linux to the next level visually by thinking about how to use it rather than what we can do now. 2 years is a long time in Free Software and everybody would benefit.

I think it's a fallacy to think of this as merely a new theme for Ibex, there is a need for new icons and a new theme sure but make it part of a grander scheme and use all the time we have available to us to implement and test it iteratively.

Set goals, think big.

while a "free software replacement" would be great, as a long time ubuntu user and a long time nvidia user. all I can say is "show me" . The efforts so far to supplant/package/replace the nvidia driver have often ended up with me stuck in vesa graphics until I could get back to the propriatary driver .

What I'd like is to make font size 8 default. It just looks so much better.

I know that it is an individual thing, but so is a theme...

It might be worth noting that, right now, the nouveau driver is faster and more featureful at 2D than the nvidia binary blob for me with an nv4x card (Geforce go 7600). The most recent cards, the nv5x (and nv6x, if they exist - the numbering is confusing :)) aka Geforce 8 and 9, aren't supported nearly as well yet, though.

With support (read: a full-time paid developer), I have little doubt that the nouveau drivers could be a competitive driver in 2 years time. In fact, I'd guess that it could be a useful 3D driver (for me) by Intrepid's release, at least if there was a dev focused on my card family ;).

RAOF said: It might be worth noting that, right now, the nouveau driver is faster and more featureful at 2D than the nvidia binary blob for me with an nv4x card (Geforce go 7600). The most recent cards, the nv5x (and nv6x, if they exist - the numbering is confusing :)) aka Geforce 8 and 9, aren't supported nearly as well yet, though.

With support (read: a full-time paid developer), I have little doubt that the nouveau drivers could be a competitive driver in 2 years time. In fact, I'd guess that it could be a useful 3D driver (for me) by Intrepid's release, at least if there was a dev focused on my card family ;).

• Note: I am going to mash up the responses to a number of posts here not just the quoted one.

You'd need DRI2, TTM and Gallium3D to reach some kind of maturity in 6 months, I doubt it was be a terribly stable experience by then for most users. For your single desktop sure.. I mean just watch the linux.conf.au talk Dave Airlie gave, he ends with showing Open Arena running 3D accelerated using said stack on his laptop and nouveau. It is possible but let's be honest it won't be able to replace the nvidia driver just yet, I think we could replace the nv driver by Ibex though. This alone would garner us a much nicer codebase and a driver with a fairly wide developer community - they have what 6-8 guys and at least Red Hat is paying Dave Airlie to do X driver development that includes the radeon and nouveau drivers - plus they also have Kristian Høgsberg working on DRI2 and Adam Jackson who is the X release manager also pokes at drivers for Red Hat. All this work is funneled through Fedora so we get to break our setups in the name of hammering the code - yay us - as a result we actually ship DRI2 and kernel modesetting in F9 as a technology preview for the intel driver and it works rather well (Read: it's not spectacular epic fail which in itself is rather impressive and a very pleasing indicator of how fast the progess is going now)

Paid development on this is going on but it's more than the drivers, the whole X stack needs a bit of a shine up to really do the job. But look at the bright side, we have 2 years to get where we need to be and we can deploy large parts of the bigger scheme every 6 months. If it's done right, meaning upstream, you can rely on a rather large work force to bring about the required changes in all our stack to take advantage of it.

As for people switching to Windows 7, we heard the same thing about Vista.. we had to have compiz by default even if it wasn't ready because of Vista - I think that was a mistake that cost dearly in the QA department. Just notice how many crashes compiz and the proprietary drivers caused (and still cause) not to mention the missing functionality such as accelerated video in a compiz environment. It's a testament to the fact that we aren't ready and that our stack needs work to be ready. Adoption of a new OS doesn't happen overnight and certainly not a launch day for anyone but the fanatics who, let's face it, we aren't going to win over just yet anyways. If you stand in line for the new OS X or Windows release, odds are tempting you to look at alternatives is going to require more than just a half baked solution.

gnomeuser said:

Set goals, think big.

Well, I am sorry but I don't believe its possible. The only way as I can see it is that we must grow.

nVidia will introduce new GPUs and customers buys them, "the main stream" just wants real 3D acceleration without any hazzle.

RMS doesn't for sure need 3D for Emacs (speaking clear)

Its so sad :( to see "fundamentalism" killing Linux and for example projects such as Compiz-Fusion.

You have exactly the same discussion within the OLPC project where Mr Negroponte made a famous interview about "Sugar" and fundamentalism.

You have heavy "tensions" everywhere around the world about these issues among developers and users.

I don't think nVidia opens their driver within your time perspective and maybe we must live with that and I also don't believe that the Nouveau project will be a success, it can be a total disaster if nVidia wants it.

Intel produces crappy cards (just for the extra money) and ATI will not publish their specs for latest GPU generations.

And Linux development stands still within an never ending internal battle which just hurts Open Source.

:(

well said Plun . The vast majority of PC users (gamers excepted ) don't even know what brand of graphics their PC has , they buy a box that has Windows pre installed and configured , they take it home and plug it in . That is the situation that Ubuntu , and linux in general faces . Infighting and speaches about "idealogical purity" get us exactly nowhere . For now the sanest course is to accept the situation and make sure that ubuntu "just works" and as we grow to have a larger user base the situation WILL change , to force the situation now when Linux is still very much a minority OS will be shooting ourselves in the foot.

ronacc said: well said Plun . The vast majority of PC users (gamers excepted ) don't even know what brand of graphics their PC has , they buy a box that has Windows pre installed and configured , they take it home and plug it in . That is the situation that Ubuntu , and linux in general faces . Infighting and speaches about "idealogical purity" get us exactly nowhere . For now the sanest course is to accept the situation and make sure that ubuntu "just works" and as we grow to have a larger user base the situation WILL change , to force the situation now when Linux is still very much a minority OS will be shooting ourselves in the foot.

Well, this is "under the hood" really dirty.....:(

One example on something really important for gamers and to make it possible for the gaming industry to work more with Linux is OpenGL 3.0

Nothing can beat Linux except the lack of work between software and hardware developers.

Just say "OK, nVidia we disagree with you about unfree drivers but we sees it important that we opens doors and start to work together".

DirectX will directly be "killed"....:)

If a OpenSource developer starts something which depends on a unfree 3D driver this project directly will be "hijacked"....

Another "small issue" is Adobes Flash and that some users thinks it better with Moonlight which in the end helps MS to earn money on Silverlight.

Fantastic equation....:(

geokok1981 said: I really REALLY hope we will get a new default theme.

However, I am afraid that history will repeat it self and the current theme will keep flowing in the river of time for years to come.....

It seems that "theme" is one of most slow things in the ubuntu realm, in terms of evolving and innovating. It is ironic if you think about it. One of the most common arguments in favor of linux is that it is a modern system, compared to the "old seven year old system from MS".

However, we never got past the point of Windows versions of the past (95 - 2000 and maybe xp era) in terms of looks. All that innovation under the hood never really touched the average joe that makes up his mind in the first few glimpses. Other distros have got that message and are already making efforts towards that goal, even smaller ones in an effort to overcome their lack of features perhaps when compared to the uber-friendliness of ubuntu. However, I believe that as a whole we are still lagging behind.

A wise Chinese man back in the 16th century said: "Pretty is a feature".

Lets make the leap this time, a leap that will bring our favorite distro in sync with 2010 and hopefully beyond that........

Don't forget about *Compiz*. That's a lof of bling in these XP --> Vista/Mac times.

But I agree that it's high time the theme it self gets a serious facelift.